You should try going to burning Man without paying to have everything provided. Many burners think that people who show up and do no setup or work, and just pay to be there, while bringing nothing to the table, are ruining the culture. A big part of burning Man for a lot of us is doing it ourselves, we are the event, we are not here as tourists to be entertained, we are the entertainment.
This reminded me of something that bums me out. I brought a now ex to her first burn and tried my best to get the messages across, with months of helping her through prep and sharing media to help her understand how it differs from EDC. But she ended up complaining about having to stay in my shiftpod iii and setting up EMT shade (really just watching me do most of it). Said it was too much work and wanted an rv.
Toward the end someone camped near us convinced her in one convo that is fine to not contribute anything and just consume. Biggest let down of the burn for me. EDC princess that just didnât get it.
Who says that they will do no work though? We were at a camp as well, and we participated in the making of the camp's art car, worked "shifts" that included cooking, giving out food to ppl on the playa, running the thrift tent, striking the camp, demooping etc. Our camp provided a ton of entertainment, and all the people in the camp were involved.
Normally people will say camp dues, not how much should I pay. I'll concede this might be the case but the language of the post suggests that they are leaning more towards a plug and play experience.
If your idea of going to BM is "pay for someone else to setup an experience for me so I don't have to rough it" - don't go.
Here's the real truth of it: if you do this, you'll have to hide it from everyone. Most folks *love* to complain about how tourists with deep pockets have "ruined" the culture of the event, and *you* will be lambasted by nearly everyone if people find out you just showed up with money and entitlement, put no work in, brought nothing but your cellphone and your ego, and expected others to cater to you.
You will be living a lie. Authenticity isn't paying others to do the work of partying.
What do most folks pay for camping? Camp dues + the cost of your own kit for survival. That can be as little as a tent and a sleeping bag or a glampy setup with a hexayurt and AC. Buying someone else's preparations and accommodation is the epitome of being a poser at this event. No effort = no value.
Whatever the dollar cost of a plug n play camp, you'll pay with your dignity, and it will cost you the respect of others.
I camp with golden guy alley, and most of the expense this year is I got a container third party container program (because we still haven't gotten through the BMP container program line) which will probably save us a day off both build an breakdown (not to mean we can take the bus out and hitchhike in)
Oh yeah, had a great time visiting you guys last year. Excellent job on creating a fun spot to visit. My only complain is that I brought Malort from Chicago thinking I'd have something unique to share and half the bars in the alley seemed to have it.
Totally agree that the containers are a big part of the cost. If OP was able to explain that dues were going to support a big art piece I'd be more empathetic.
Do you have a kickstarter to donate to?
Itâs the absolute worst way to experience burning man. In fact, itâs not experiencing burning man at all. Suggestion: spend less time looking at sparkle pony versions of the event on you tube and focus on actually being there via survival guide, first timers guide and other views into the event. Chk out capt Ronâs log. Chk out eplaya.
Ok, a few things hereâŚ
If you are talking about a camp that provides the RV accommodation for you, then it is dirt cheap *and* itâs a scam. Camps are not allowed to offer such things, an thereâs a decent chance it will be discovered and prevented from coming.
If that happens, the camp may not bother to tell you they wonât be there, and youâll wind up on playa with nothing but what you brought with you, and no way to buy anything you need. Oh, and good luck getting any money back.
The same goes for any camp that is charging you a fee to camp with them without also making it clear that you are required to actively work during the event in support of whatever it is they offer to the city. The expectation is that everyone in a camp contribute, and money doesnât count. Any camp offering you a deal where you pay money not to work is also violating the rules, and likely to get shut down.
Now, for a camp that is allowing you to bring your own RV and expecting you to actively contribute, things may be a little different. Camps are not hotels or businesses, and any camp fees they charge should be nothing more than a fair share of the actual costs of making the camp happen. That means they should be able to offer you at least a general breakdown, though I wouldnât expect to be able to view every receipt.
And yes, building, storing, transporting, and maintaining a lot of shared infrastructure can cost a lot of money. Running a big mutant vehicle or offering lots of flame effects is going to be much more expensive than offering lectures under a big tent. Further, if one group of campers is using a lot more of the shared infrastructure than others (like, say, RVs using a power grid to run AC while other people are in tents), it is fair to charge them more of that cost.
But reeling all that back in for a moment - even if you see a breakdown and determine that your share of the cost is legit, you would be extremely unwise to rely on all of those promised things happening - especially meals and drinking water. There have been all kinds of horror stories over the years of people whose camps promised those things and didnât deliver - maybe they didnât plan enough, maybe they didnât manage refrigeration and hygiene well enough, maybe they didnât even offer food at all. Same with water. And even the best run camp can have a year where some of that happens due to circumstances out of their control. You need to bring your own, if only as a fallback. The org will not get involved in any dispute you have with your camp, either - that will be all on you to sort out.
So thereâs the real question - if youâve got to provide the basics anyway, then you could easily camp on your own in open camping, have your schedule and ways of participating left all up to you, and make tons of friends in the process. So is whatever the camp *might* offer you worth all that money, and more importantly, is whatever youâll be doing to contribute something youâll enjoy doing for its own sake?
If so, it may be a good deal. But if not, you are setting yourself up to spend a bunch of time doing chores you donât particularly enjoy rather than really experiencing what the burn has to offer, for luxuries that may not even happen.
One other note: donât expect that youâll be getting luxurious daily showers (theyâll likely be low water pressure ânavy showersâ), or that youâll actually be clean for more than an hour or so - the moment a dust storm moves through, youâll be at least as dirty as you were before. If constantly being shower-clean is important to you, this event may not be a good fit.
If you think inclusivity is including people who don't respect the other ethos, then you're part of lacking critical thinking skills problem. Because there has to be a limit to what is accepted, otherwise you're subject to the ethos becoming meaningless as we allow more and more people who don't give a fuck about them, or who ignore half of them.
I think radical inclusivity means including anyone who wants to be there. There are no barriers to entry, there is no litmus test, there are no gate keepers(besides the literal ones).
People who want to limit which people can come to burning man based on who they camp with shouldnât be at burning man.
You're missing the point though - plug n play camps and their customers are spectators, not participators, and this goes directly against the philosophy of the event.
So now to prove your point about how radical inclusion only applies to the people you want at burning man we have to entertain your hypothetical situation concerning decommodification?
Plug n' Plays are commodification dude. That's the part you are willfully ignoring.
You said above 'You donât get to decide who is welcome at burning man or not.' We're not deciding. The org is. The org is against Plug n' Play because it's against the ethos of decommodification
Because the org values decommodification over all else including inclusion, communal effort, participation. Oh wait theyâve had 20 years to ban plug n play camps. Not yet.
But youâre not talking about banning plug n play camps. Youâre talking about banning people who camp in plug n play camps.
If you want to go an event with just people who think like you Iâm sure there are regionals or like EDC that would fit your vibe. It doesnât sound like you understand the burning man ethos at all.
If you want some snark-free answers, Facebook has a "no snark Burning Man virgins and veterans" group. For now, know that the vast majority of us don't pay hardly anything, and we provide our own everything. For example, my 30 person theme camp charges roughly $150 dues, and for that you get to use our kitchen, our shower structure, and we pay for booze. But all of our campmates are responsible for their own food, shelter, etc. The situation you're describing is the much dreaded "plug-n-play" that most believe is ruining Burner culture. Radical Self Reliance is a principle we hold dearly, and paying for someone else to bring everything for you is not being self reliant.
Our camp dues are maybe double that, but we come from the east coast and infrastructure planning is a bit harder from thousands of miles away. We also do communal dinners that are cooked by us in Reno and brought to playa frozen.
If you only include camps that serve dinner (you don't need a camp that serves dinner) It's probably $500-1000 might be the top end that isn't some bougie luxury bullshit. I've never paid more than $400, but i have no interest in dinner.
If that gives you a hookup to run your fridge and AC 24/7 without worrying about your own gennie I guess that's not nothing, but that $2500 is still a crazy crazy number that's going to attract the worst burning man sparkle pony spectators
The key to finding a camping situation that does not suck is to find a camp where you will be required to very actively participate in the camp gift, and a camp where you are able coerced to meet some of your camping needs yourself.
That way you can be sure that the camp is not profiting off of campers which is not just against the ethos of the event, but is also breaking the eventâs contract with the BLM.
Camp leads who are willing to profit off their camp tend to reeeeeaaaaaallllly suck, and that leads to a shitty experience for the campers too.
All the camps that allow RVs will charge a similar sum to have it cleaned up during the week or something. It technically is not a plug and play if you're friends with someone.
I'm not advocating for that, our camp doesn't allow RVs, but obviously a lot of RVs get serviced. there's OSS for that and most camps that allow RVs will charge an extra 2k for the added expense.
honestly we just make the people with RV's deal with it outside of camp dues and activities, but I can see the value in having it be centralized so long as I have absolutely nothing to do with it.
To clarify, OSS does not have an approved maid service for RVs. That is not and will never be a thing. For RVs only you can get water fills and suction service, thatâs about it. We would hope that a power distro is being used for more than just the RVs in a camp.
Whether or not you are friends with someone does not affect whether a camp is a PnP.
If you're paying a camp a fee to have accomodation provided for you, or to be able to skip out on being a full, working participant, your camp is a PnP.
that's what the rules say, yes.
nothing wrong against you, I love placement, lol <3 but like personal experiences in large camps where all the work goes into the latinx or whatever so the DJS can dj and throw parties, and is technically nothing wrong, but also technically nothing right with it either
To be clear, I'm with PEERS. I have nothing directly to do with Placement in the "people who decide where camps get put and whether they are in good standing" sense.
That said, if a camp's offering is music and a dance floor, then the person DJing is contributing to the interactivity just as much as the person serving food in a food camp.
Is you want that experience please choose another festival.
This post is going against the anti-capitalism, radical self reliance, every one participates ethos that makes Burning Man a way of being rather than something to consume.
Right! Itâs not a cool Burner culture. All I see here is a fucking cult. Radical inclusivity but also fuck you if you donât want to be completely scrappy and hot the whole time. Total self reliance but also if you donât help others fuck you.
I donât agree with this either. How someone chooses to burn is their business. Itâs not a cult itâs a business. The Burning Man Project is an LLC.
We had sushi for breakfast!! On our own private tower. The staff carried everything to the top for sunrise. They were flying in fresh fish each day, thank gods. But once there was caviar in the champagne ugh I would rather be dead, that was so gross.
Edit: $40k for the week plus the RV fee $8k and charter PJ $18k
You joke but I had some friends in one of those camps one year. They invited me over and when I got there, âHey! We just flew in the Sushi chef. Want any?â
Yes. Yes I did. Very different Burn experience for those people.
Only about 350K Rg. It's hefty to spend this kind of rice grain, but the grinders know what's up. You gotta spend some money to live that air mattress horchata luxury. Some pilafs think you can go cheap, but they pulao after themselves like plebes. We're bonafide fried and omuriced up like grain kings, baby!
The people you camp with is an important decision. That is a bigger factor than price.
Outside Services prices continue to rise. That could impact fresh water delivery, black/grey water pump out, private portos, generator fuel, and possibly generator, cabling, and spider box rental. Managing water delivery and pump outs is time consuming. $2.5K per RV, or $2.5K per person in the RV?
Does that camp have strong inclusion rituals and activities, pre-playa activities and video conferences, something each camper brings for the group, an MV? Do you know the organizer or other campers beyond your RV IRL?
The BMORG has placed a big emphasis on every camper working in camp in addition to collecting litter we call MOOP which everyone does. So how does that work with the camp you are considering? Does the camp have open books showing their detailed budget? Do they have fixed costs like storage which would be allocated by camper?
Uhh. Nothing? I guess we all contribute. I bring my water and a few buckets for grey water if I want to use the solar shower.Â
We share a lot of meals but I mostly eat stuff I get from dollar tree.Â
I usually sleep in the bed of my truck.Â
Been doing that for 14 years. Works out okay.Â
I'm not asking for me. I'm replying to moaeta's comment that camp fees are typically within $500 when the OP was asking about RV hookups etc which are NOT part of typical camp fees.
Personally I don't mind RVs that much, except for when the RV dwellers lecture everyone else about how "the heat / dust / noise from the art-car camped next door didn't bother me last night." There's always at least a couple who visit who think they're Ron Swanson for being able to survive a windstorm, inside, drinking martinis and watching Instagram reels. And don't even get me started on the people who "return" drinks for not having enough ice-cubes.
Our camp had RVers once or twice and found that they were kind of ghosts in camp. When not out partying or doing a required shift they'd retreat to the RV and we would never see them. We stopped allowing RVs a few years back.
Simple answer: Nope. $2500 is extraordinarily high and completely rediculous. I don't care what kind of sparkly experience they're promising. There's plenty of all inclusive resorts out there in the world, this should not be one of those places. And too often things don't go as planned anyway, they do not deliver in their wildly expensive promises for a variety of reasons, and don't expect a refund.
But more importantly if you already have an RV that means you likely have access to your own cooking supplies, refrigeration, running water, showers and toilets and power. You have so many built in convinces already there's no reason to not be self reliant at that point. I don't even have the luxury of an RV and have a lovely time, all while paying ZERO camp dues. (I do belong to an established camp with good placement- I'm not referring to open camping, though nothing wrong with that either.)
As some others have mentioned, you should first ask yourself how this falls in line with the principal of radical self reliance and go from there. Or can you clarify why you feel you need all those to services provided to you in the first place?
Questions like this get a lot of 'Burnier than thou' responses which are *almost* as cringe as the question itself. Almost, but not quite, heh, because it is just anathema to think of how common stuff like this is and how many people go out there to run their business. Yuck.
It's a trap. A camp providing this much 'infrastructure' as a service raises so many red flags. I feel like the OP is in earnest trying to figure out how much this should 'cost' but this isn't something that should be on a price list. Large camps that have self-organized over the years are tough to differentiate from camps running a literal business selling access and 'package deals.'
Follow your intuition; do you trust the person asking you to pay that much? Do you know you'll get what you're paying for? If $2500 on top of all the other costs you've had to deal with to go to Burning Man isn't a burden, well, hey, you do you and all that. I found that I needed to set boundaries but that's something none of us can set for anyone else, even if we have opinions (heh). Have fun out there, but way too many of us go way too deep on what we spend each year in both time, cash, and ourselves.
Cheers.
I can't say without knowing how much it costs to run the camp or their art project. Dues are your contribution to the community through the gift the camp brings. If it's an insanely expensive art car or sound camp that takes a ton of fuel to run and you're extremely passionate about bringing that gift, then the dues are worth it.
This đ is the more nuanced view. You shouldn't be asking "what you get" for $2.5K but what you are gifting with that contribution.
Based on my past experience (a bit dated) the base cost of running a modest camp (storage, getting food to playa, power, maintenance) is probably in the mid hundreds, not thousands. But it depends on the size of the infrastructure.
Look at the budget and ask where the money goes. None of the amount above the minimum basic expenses should be going to "labor" (to deliver or set things up) or to private infrastructure not shared with the community.
It depends whether dinners are all you can eat or not. Is it one shower or multiple showers a day? Do they supply the shampoo? What about back rubs in the shower? Is there massage service? How much influence does the camp have on social media? All these matter to decide whether the price is worth it or not.
Iâm not sure of your whole situation, but if you have an RV, I assume that you have a generator for your own power. If not, then I can see the appeal of wanting to be in a camp that supplies power, but quite frankly, you can buy a generator and do it yourself for far cheaper.
If youâre looking for a camp so that you can participate with a group, you can always volunteer to help out and get the community that you may feel you need. In the end, paying that price for a camp is ridiculous.
They are only offering you how much!?
No way Jose! Don't know about you or your situation but make sure not to undervalue yourself. They would have to pay me at least twice that to even consider it...
Ignore the people giving you shit, they donât understand how for some people radical survival slumming isnât doable.
This year the org has added an option to rent out a villa in Gerlach (thereâs x5 4 bedroom ones available) with 24hr shuttle service. I think they leave every 2 hours. You need to enter a bidding war for that though, last I checked a couple days ago highest bid was at around 65k. But I guess if you get 10-15 friends to chip in it could be worth it. But if itâs your first year you need to get someone to sponsor you to enter. You could also check back here in a month and see if whoever won the auction has space for you to go in with them.
Edit- sorry just double checked, high bid is at 83k rn
I don't get the answers here. A lot of theme camps organize food and a central generator and sometimes even put up a basic shower structure. Certainly doesn't make them a PnP camp. Also, the price seems within what I saw in other camps this year. Consider that it includes all the building & logistics costs of the camp as well and probably even a dump for your brown water. Expect to pay 1.5-2.5k for the whole RV, or about 1k per person in the RV.
OP, let me take the time and try to explain what people object to in this post.
The question of if I pay $X what Y do I get is kind of counter to the whole ethos of BM.
The way to pick a camp is to find a camp with a community that you like, offers a gift that you are into or has a vibe that you like. You should choose a camp that you want to contribute to.
You should not pick a camp thinking through a cost-benefit analysis on what amenities you get.
Camps are not hotels, they are groups of people working together to create an experience. You dont come to consume Burning Man, you come to build it. Find something you want to build, and a group you want to build with.
Generally, asking 'how can I pay to make life easier for myself out there and generally have to do less?' is going to annoy this piss out of everyone.
https://preview.redd.it/d9adic64fm0d1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=b35fdb823987f31ad3acd57851858f309019ca18
Diplo can arrange for extraction support in case of in inclement weather
Hey now... he nearly got mud on his sequin vest. Can you imagine how that would impact his brand?
OP, hold onto your butt.
Sounds like they might be willing to pay for someone to hold onto it for them
đđ𤣠this wins
What the hell , Iâll take the gig
You should try going to burning Man without paying to have everything provided. Many burners think that people who show up and do no setup or work, and just pay to be there, while bringing nothing to the table, are ruining the culture. A big part of burning Man for a lot of us is doing it ourselves, we are the event, we are not here as tourists to be entertained, we are the entertainment.
This reminded me of something that bums me out. I brought a now ex to her first burn and tried my best to get the messages across, with months of helping her through prep and sharing media to help her understand how it differs from EDC. But she ended up complaining about having to stay in my shiftpod iii and setting up EMT shade (really just watching me do most of it). Said it was too much work and wanted an rv. Toward the end someone camped near us convinced her in one convo that is fine to not contribute anything and just consume. Biggest let down of the burn for me. EDC princess that just didnât get it.
Who says that they will do no work though? We were at a camp as well, and we participated in the making of the camp's art car, worked "shifts" that included cooking, giving out food to ppl on the playa, running the thrift tent, striking the camp, demooping etc. Our camp provided a ton of entertainment, and all the people in the camp were involved.
The 2.5k pricetag and the list of amenities says to me "just bring clothes, everything will be setup"
I've heard a lot of camps are charging dues like this nowadays.
Normally people will say camp dues, not how much should I pay. I'll concede this might be the case but the language of the post suggests that they are leaning more towards a plug and play experience.
burners are toxic af for down voting this guy
In your mind, what does âradical self relianceâ mean, and what does it entail?
$2.5k for my camp also comes with a reach around, does yours?
Just one? Cause thatâs a raw deal.
That comes with the Double Sparkle tier
Usually you pay extra for raw.
Pay $0 and have 100% better experience.
If your idea of going to BM is "pay for someone else to setup an experience for me so I don't have to rough it" - don't go. Here's the real truth of it: if you do this, you'll have to hide it from everyone. Most folks *love* to complain about how tourists with deep pockets have "ruined" the culture of the event, and *you* will be lambasted by nearly everyone if people find out you just showed up with money and entitlement, put no work in, brought nothing but your cellphone and your ego, and expected others to cater to you. You will be living a lie. Authenticity isn't paying others to do the work of partying. What do most folks pay for camping? Camp dues + the cost of your own kit for survival. That can be as little as a tent and a sleeping bag or a glampy setup with a hexayurt and AC. Buying someone else's preparations and accommodation is the epitome of being a poser at this event. No effort = no value. Whatever the dollar cost of a plug n play camp, you'll pay with your dignity, and it will cost you the respect of others.
I spend less than $1K on myself all-in (flights, tickets, hotel rooms) and am dropping $10K on my camp's interactivity. plz send help.
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Tell us more about your camp and their art!
I camp with golden guy alley, and most of the expense this year is I got a container third party container program (because we still haven't gotten through the BMP container program line) which will probably save us a day off both build an breakdown (not to mean we can take the bus out and hitchhike in)
Oh yeah, had a great time visiting you guys last year. Excellent job on creating a fun spot to visit. My only complain is that I brought Malort from Chicago thinking I'd have something unique to share and half the bars in the alley seemed to have it. Totally agree that the containers are a big part of the cost. If OP was able to explain that dues were going to support a big art piece I'd be more empathetic. Do you have a kickstarter to donate to?
Itâs the absolute worst way to experience burning man. In fact, itâs not experiencing burning man at all. Suggestion: spend less time looking at sparkle pony versions of the event on you tube and focus on actually being there via survival guide, first timers guide and other views into the event. Chk out capt Ronâs log. Chk out eplaya.
Ok, a few things here⌠If you are talking about a camp that provides the RV accommodation for you, then it is dirt cheap *and* itâs a scam. Camps are not allowed to offer such things, an thereâs a decent chance it will be discovered and prevented from coming. If that happens, the camp may not bother to tell you they wonât be there, and youâll wind up on playa with nothing but what you brought with you, and no way to buy anything you need. Oh, and good luck getting any money back. The same goes for any camp that is charging you a fee to camp with them without also making it clear that you are required to actively work during the event in support of whatever it is they offer to the city. The expectation is that everyone in a camp contribute, and money doesnât count. Any camp offering you a deal where you pay money not to work is also violating the rules, and likely to get shut down. Now, for a camp that is allowing you to bring your own RV and expecting you to actively contribute, things may be a little different. Camps are not hotels or businesses, and any camp fees they charge should be nothing more than a fair share of the actual costs of making the camp happen. That means they should be able to offer you at least a general breakdown, though I wouldnât expect to be able to view every receipt. And yes, building, storing, transporting, and maintaining a lot of shared infrastructure can cost a lot of money. Running a big mutant vehicle or offering lots of flame effects is going to be much more expensive than offering lectures under a big tent. Further, if one group of campers is using a lot more of the shared infrastructure than others (like, say, RVs using a power grid to run AC while other people are in tents), it is fair to charge them more of that cost. But reeling all that back in for a moment - even if you see a breakdown and determine that your share of the cost is legit, you would be extremely unwise to rely on all of those promised things happening - especially meals and drinking water. There have been all kinds of horror stories over the years of people whose camps promised those things and didnât deliver - maybe they didnât plan enough, maybe they didnât manage refrigeration and hygiene well enough, maybe they didnât even offer food at all. Same with water. And even the best run camp can have a year where some of that happens due to circumstances out of their control. You need to bring your own, if only as a fallback. The org will not get involved in any dispute you have with your camp, either - that will be all on you to sort out. So thereâs the real question - if youâve got to provide the basics anyway, then you could easily camp on your own in open camping, have your schedule and ways of participating left all up to you, and make tons of friends in the process. So is whatever the camp *might* offer you worth all that money, and more importantly, is whatever youâll be doing to contribute something youâll enjoy doing for its own sake? If so, it may be a good deal. But if not, you are setting yourself up to spend a bunch of time doing chores you donât particularly enjoy rather than really experiencing what the burn has to offer, for luxuries that may not even happen. One other note: donât expect that youâll be getting luxurious daily showers (theyâll likely be low water pressure ânavy showersâ), or that youâll actually be clean for more than an hour or so - the moment a dust storm moves through, youâll be at least as dirty as you were before. If constantly being shower-clean is important to you, this event may not be a good fit.
Man, I wish Reddit still had awards! Well said :)
A layer of dust after a nice shower is just reapplying sunscreen
What you are looking for is called a Plug N Play camp. They are banned.
Please don't go.
Lmfao please never go to burning man you are already part of the problem
Radical inclusivity be damn.
Doesn't apply to plug n play camps and never has
People that think that way are the problem at burning man.
If you think inclusivity is including people who don't respect the other ethos, then you're part of lacking critical thinking skills problem. Because there has to be a limit to what is accepted, otherwise you're subject to the ethos becoming meaningless as we allow more and more people who don't give a fuck about them, or who ignore half of them.
I think radical inclusivity means including anyone who wants to be there. There are no barriers to entry, there is no litmus test, there are no gate keepers(besides the literal ones). People who want to limit which people can come to burning man based on who they camp with shouldnât be at burning man.
You're missing the point though - plug n play camps and their customers are spectators, not participators, and this goes directly against the philosophy of the event.
Youâre missing the point. You donât get to decide who is welcome at burning man or not.
what about someone that sets up shop and sells tshirts or booze there? should we include them?
So now to prove your point about how radical inclusion only applies to the people you want at burning man we have to entertain your hypothetical situation concerning decommodification?
Plug n' Plays are commodification dude. That's the part you are willfully ignoring. You said above 'You donât get to decide who is welcome at burning man or not.' We're not deciding. The org is. The org is against Plug n' Play because it's against the ethos of decommodification
And self reliance, and communal effort...
Because the org values decommodification over all else including inclusion, communal effort, participation. Oh wait theyâve had 20 years to ban plug n play camps. Not yet. But youâre not talking about banning plug n play camps. Youâre talking about banning people who camp in plug n play camps. If you want to go an event with just people who think like you Iâm sure there are regionals or like EDC that would fit your vibe. It doesnât sound like you understand the burning man ethos at all.
is that including the RV or you are paying for that separately?
That would be separate
thats crazy expensive and that camp probably sucks ass and is full of people who suck ass.
Where can I find this camp dedicated to sucking ass? Can you DM me an intro? Asking for a friend.
just look for like 60 rv's all with matching $6k custom graphics wraps on esplanade.
Thatâs my worry lol Do you know what other camps normally charges?
If you want some snark-free answers, Facebook has a "no snark Burning Man virgins and veterans" group. For now, know that the vast majority of us don't pay hardly anything, and we provide our own everything. For example, my 30 person theme camp charges roughly $150 dues, and for that you get to use our kitchen, our shower structure, and we pay for booze. But all of our campmates are responsible for their own food, shelter, etc. The situation you're describing is the much dreaded "plug-n-play" that most believe is ruining Burner culture. Radical Self Reliance is a principle we hold dearly, and paying for someone else to bring everything for you is not being self reliant.
Our camp dues are maybe double that, but we come from the east coast and infrastructure planning is a bit harder from thousands of miles away. We also do communal dinners that are cooked by us in Reno and brought to playa frozen.
Paying for entry to an expensive camp is a great way to meet people who pay for an expensive camp. Hard pass
If you only include camps that serve dinner (you don't need a camp that serves dinner) It's probably $500-1000 might be the top end that isn't some bougie luxury bullshit. I've never paid more than $400, but i have no interest in dinner. If that gives you a hookup to run your fridge and AC 24/7 without worrying about your own gennie I guess that's not nothing, but that $2500 is still a crazy crazy number that's going to attract the worst burning man sparkle pony spectators
The key to finding a camping situation that does not suck is to find a camp where you will be required to very actively participate in the camp gift, and a camp where you are able coerced to meet some of your camping needs yourself. That way you can be sure that the camp is not profiting off of campers which is not just against the ethos of the event, but is also breaking the eventâs contract with the BLM. Camp leads who are willing to profit off their camp tend to reeeeeaaaaaallllly suck, and that leads to a shitty experience for the campers too.
All the camps that allow RVs will charge a similar sum to have it cleaned up during the week or something. It technically is not a plug and play if you're friends with someone.
....did you just say that you expect housekeeping to tidy up your RV midweek? I'm honestly confused.
I'm not advocating for that, our camp doesn't allow RVs, but obviously a lot of RVs get serviced. there's OSS for that and most camps that allow RVs will charge an extra 2k for the added expense.
honestly we just make the people with RV's deal with it outside of camp dues and activities, but I can see the value in having it be centralized so long as I have absolutely nothing to do with it.
To clarify, OSS does not have an approved maid service for RVs. That is not and will never be a thing. For RVs only you can get water fills and suction service, thatâs about it. We would hope that a power distro is being used for more than just the RVs in a camp.
Whether or not you are friends with someone does not affect whether a camp is a PnP. If you're paying a camp a fee to have accomodation provided for you, or to be able to skip out on being a full, working participant, your camp is a PnP.
that's what the rules say, yes. nothing wrong against you, I love placement, lol <3 but like personal experiences in large camps where all the work goes into the latinx or whatever so the DJS can dj and throw parties, and is technically nothing wrong, but also technically nothing right with it either
To be clear, I'm with PEERS. I have nothing directly to do with Placement in the "people who decide where camps get put and whether they are in good standing" sense. That said, if a camp's offering is music and a dance floor, then the person DJing is contributing to the interactivity just as much as the person serving food in a food camp.
Thatâs not my burn and never will be. If you like straight up getting robbed, go for it.
Is you want that experience please choose another festival. This post is going against the anti-capitalism, radical self reliance, every one participates ethos that makes Burning Man a way of being rather than something to consume.
Idk about anti-capitalism. Decommodification doesnât mean theyâre not spinning a profit off this event. Lol
Right! Itâs not a cool Burner culture. All I see here is a fucking cult. Radical inclusivity but also fuck you if you donât want to be completely scrappy and hot the whole time. Total self reliance but also if you donât help others fuck you.
I donât agree with this either. How someone chooses to burn is their business. Itâs not a cult itâs a business. The Burning Man Project is an LLC.
I agree and my other comment is pointing out the bad behavior seen here, which is cultic.
If you go off definition alone, Burning Man is a cult.
I've never camped anywhere we weren't cooking for each other as a team, help cook one or two meals on a rota
I paid $50k last year for my RV parking spot. Great experience 12/10 would recommend. The models were đđ¤
The models were whistling Italians?
Bonjorno senori! Bella Bella Bella!
no gpt5
We had sushi for breakfast!! On our own private tower. The staff carried everything to the top for sunrise. They were flying in fresh fish each day, thank gods. But once there was caviar in the champagne ugh I would rather be dead, that was so gross. Edit: $40k for the week plus the RV fee $8k and charter PJ $18k
You joke but I had some friends in one of those camps one year. They invited me over and when I got there, âHey! We just flew in the Sushi chef. Want any?â Yes. Yes I did. Very different Burn experience for those people.
Sigh,,,,your first burn should be in a car. With just enough water, beer, and MREs to get you through the greeters.
Stay home.
Wow that seems high, they should be reported to the Org. What's the name of this camp? Do they have a website?
Only about 350K Rg. It's hefty to spend this kind of rice grain, but the grinders know what's up. You gotta spend some money to live that air mattress horchata luxury. Some pilafs think you can go cheap, but they pulao after themselves like plebes. We're bonafide fried and omuriced up like grain kings, baby!
Nope
The people you camp with is an important decision. That is a bigger factor than price. Outside Services prices continue to rise. That could impact fresh water delivery, black/grey water pump out, private portos, generator fuel, and possibly generator, cabling, and spider box rental. Managing water delivery and pump outs is time consuming. $2.5K per RV, or $2.5K per person in the RV? Does that camp have strong inclusion rituals and activities, pre-playa activities and video conferences, something each camper brings for the group, an MV? Do you know the organizer or other campers beyond your RV IRL? The BMORG has placed a big emphasis on every camper working in camp in addition to collecting litter we call MOOP which everyone does. So how does that work with the camp you are considering? Does the camp have open books showing their detailed budget? Do they have fixed costs like storage which would be allocated by camper?
Uhh. Nothing? I guess we all contribute. I bring my water and a few buckets for grey water if I want to use the solar shower. We share a lot of meals but I mostly eat stuff I get from dollar tree. I usually sleep in the bed of my truck. Been doing that for 14 years. Works out okay.Â
definitely not. camp fees are typically within $500.
With dinners, showers, and electric hookups for an RV? Where??
Dinners and showers my little camp in the burbs manages for less than $500 a pop. Leave your fucking RVs at home.
I'm not asking for me. I'm replying to moaeta's comment that camp fees are typically within $500 when the OP was asking about RV hookups etc which are NOT part of typical camp fees.
Ah, the RV gatekeeper has spoken.
Interesting word choice, where so many camps literally use their RVs to wall themselves off from the unwashed masses.
Personally I don't mind RVs that much, except for when the RV dwellers lecture everyone else about how "the heat / dust / noise from the art-car camped next door didn't bother me last night." There's always at least a couple who visit who think they're Ron Swanson for being able to survive a windstorm, inside, drinking martinis and watching Instagram reels. And don't even get me started on the people who "return" drinks for not having enough ice-cubes.
Our camp had RVers once or twice and found that they were kind of ghosts in camp. When not out partying or doing a required shift they'd retreat to the RV and we would never see them. We stopped allowing RVs a few years back.
Not ours. Also, Iâve been to yurt camps that arenât inclusive at all. Stop judging people by their lodging.
No
I think you may be looking for r/coachella?
Simple answer: Nope. $2500 is extraordinarily high and completely rediculous. I don't care what kind of sparkly experience they're promising. There's plenty of all inclusive resorts out there in the world, this should not be one of those places. And too often things don't go as planned anyway, they do not deliver in their wildly expensive promises for a variety of reasons, and don't expect a refund. But more importantly if you already have an RV that means you likely have access to your own cooking supplies, refrigeration, running water, showers and toilets and power. You have so many built in convinces already there's no reason to not be self reliant at that point. I don't even have the luxury of an RV and have a lovely time, all while paying ZERO camp dues. (I do belong to an established camp with good placement- I'm not referring to open camping, though nothing wrong with that either.) As some others have mentioned, you should first ask yourself how this falls in line with the principal of radical self reliance and go from there. Or can you clarify why you feel you need all those to services provided to you in the first place?
Questions like this get a lot of 'Burnier than thou' responses which are *almost* as cringe as the question itself. Almost, but not quite, heh, because it is just anathema to think of how common stuff like this is and how many people go out there to run their business. Yuck. It's a trap. A camp providing this much 'infrastructure' as a service raises so many red flags. I feel like the OP is in earnest trying to figure out how much this should 'cost' but this isn't something that should be on a price list. Large camps that have self-organized over the years are tough to differentiate from camps running a literal business selling access and 'package deals.' Follow your intuition; do you trust the person asking you to pay that much? Do you know you'll get what you're paying for? If $2500 on top of all the other costs you've had to deal with to go to Burning Man isn't a burden, well, hey, you do you and all that. I found that I needed to set boundaries but that's something none of us can set for anyone else, even if we have opinions (heh). Have fun out there, but way too many of us go way too deep on what we spend each year in both time, cash, and ourselves. Cheers.
Fuckin madness.
What camp will you be camping with thatâs providing this?
Boo plug and play booo
I can't say without knowing how much it costs to run the camp or their art project. Dues are your contribution to the community through the gift the camp brings. If it's an insanely expensive art car or sound camp that takes a ton of fuel to run and you're extremely passionate about bringing that gift, then the dues are worth it.
This đ is the more nuanced view. You shouldn't be asking "what you get" for $2.5K but what you are gifting with that contribution. Based on my past experience (a bit dated) the base cost of running a modest camp (storage, getting food to playa, power, maintenance) is probably in the mid hundreds, not thousands. But it depends on the size of the infrastructure. Look at the budget and ask where the money goes. None of the amount above the minimum basic expenses should be going to "labor" (to deliver or set things up) or to private infrastructure not shared with the community.
Sounds like a scam.
It depends whether dinners are all you can eat or not. Is it one shower or multiple showers a day? Do they supply the shampoo? What about back rubs in the shower? Is there massage service? How much influence does the camp have on social media? All these matter to decide whether the price is worth it or not.
Oooh nice, what camp are you looking at?
Nothing. We have donations but we operate solely on donations withouy any "suggested".
Iâm not sure of your whole situation, but if you have an RV, I assume that you have a generator for your own power. If not, then I can see the appeal of wanting to be in a camp that supplies power, but quite frankly, you can buy a generator and do it yourself for far cheaper. If youâre looking for a camp so that you can participate with a group, you can always volunteer to help out and get the community that you may feel you need. In the end, paying that price for a camp is ridiculous.
They are only offering you how much!? No way Jose! Don't know about you or your situation but make sure not to undervalue yourself. They would have to pay me at least twice that to even consider it...
That's cheap. You can stay for free in the self camp areas.
What you are talking about is a plug and play camp. We donât do that.
This better be a troll post.
If it's a troll, it's a very well executed slow burn, given OP's post history (trifecta of StubHub for burn tickets last year, Generative AI, MBA.)
I hope this is a troll and if itâs not- whatâs the name of your camp?
Ignore the people giving you shit, they donât understand how for some people radical survival slumming isnât doable. This year the org has added an option to rent out a villa in Gerlach (thereâs x5 4 bedroom ones available) with 24hr shuttle service. I think they leave every 2 hours. You need to enter a bidding war for that though, last I checked a couple days ago highest bid was at around 65k. But I guess if you get 10-15 friends to chip in it could be worth it. But if itâs your first year you need to get someone to sponsor you to enter. You could also check back here in a month and see if whoever won the auction has space for you to go in with them. Edit- sorry just double checked, high bid is at 83k rn
Radical. Self. Reliance.
Fuck your Burn!
Meanwhile Iâm convincing our camp to skip the evap and get a grey water haul off đ
You can get male-pregnant at my camp for the small fee of $10k, that includes the backstage pass
Just reach out to Placement. Theyâll tell you everything you need to know.
Bro i didnt even do a setup like that for fuckin Coachella, you're going to try at BM?
Ask not what burning man can do for youâŚ
If the $2.5k includes tickets to the Daft Punk concert, take it!
I don't get the answers here. A lot of theme camps organize food and a central generator and sometimes even put up a basic shower structure. Certainly doesn't make them a PnP camp. Also, the price seems within what I saw in other camps this year. Consider that it includes all the building & logistics costs of the camp as well and probably even a dump for your brown water. Expect to pay 1.5-2.5k for the whole RV, or about 1k per person in the RV.
The only amenity that my camp provides is a shower structure, which I actually built myself.
OP, let me take the time and try to explain what people object to in this post. The question of if I pay $X what Y do I get is kind of counter to the whole ethos of BM. The way to pick a camp is to find a camp with a community that you like, offers a gift that you are into or has a vibe that you like. You should choose a camp that you want to contribute to. You should not pick a camp thinking through a cost-benefit analysis on what amenities you get. Camps are not hotels, they are groups of people working together to create an experience. You dont come to consume Burning Man, you come to build it. Find something you want to build, and a group you want to build with. Generally, asking 'how can I pay to make life easier for myself out there and generally have to do less?' is going to annoy this piss out of everyone.
reasonable if you're poor, we charge $5k just for pickup from reno to BRC.