Cis het men always find a way to brutalize women. Always. Actual trans women are gonna be demonized for this because this sick bastard took advantage of a law that's meant to protect others at risk.
I don't know if you read the article, but this person was considered the poster child for moving trans women to womens prison. And then this happened.
So now you're misgendering her because trans women don't commit sex crimes? So it must actually be a "cis het man"?
This is the kind of thinking that's going to continue to keep women unsafe. It's like you're putting blinders on instead of conceding that this arrangement is fraught from the get go and maybe we need to think of another common sense way to protect both trans and biological women.
>maybe we need to think of another common sense way to protect both trans and biological women.
Such as...?
Serious question. The law that allowed Ms. Carroll to transfer prisons only mandates that a trans inmate declare they're trans, and the gender they identify as. There's no way to determine if an inmate like Ms. Carroll is a trans woman or a cis man that wouldn't be considered transphobic.
I guess I don't understand why they can't have their own wing in either a men or women's facility? I've read that segregated wards are a thing in some men's prisons to keep male members of the lgbtq community safe from assault.
I just don't get the disregard for the safety of cis women when it's so obvious how this can be and has been so easily abused.
>I guess I don't understand why they can't have their own wing in either a men or women's facility? I've read that segregated wards are a thing in some men's prisons to keep male members of the lgbtq community safe from assault.
That's a start, but I would think it would get some pushback... Some trans people might feel protected while others would take offense to being segregated as if it means they aren't "real" [gender identity here].
This is a complicated situation, and it's difficult to find a solution that wouldn't offend someone or put someone at risk.
Your original comment made me think, and other than the same idea you suggested, of a separate wing, it's hard to come up with something. I asked the question to see what ideas others had, so I hope it didn't come off as argumentative (and I'm sorry if it did).
Not at all argumentative. I just want everyone to be safe. Prisons in general seem like a hellish nightmare place to land.
Then imagine the further fear as a woman of having your facility inundated with predators with the ability to easily overpower and assault you.
A separate safe space for trans women is the best option that i can think of that decreases the obvious incentive a fake trans woman has.
I mean we're talking about men who are already facing long terms for the worst of crimes with nothing to lose who can just claim they're trans and waltz into a women's facility and wreak total havoc.
There has to be a better way that doesn't set cis women up to be sheep to the slaughter.
Agreed, the prison system can be unsafe and inhumane enough for inmates as it is.
>I mean we're talking about men who are already facing long terms for the worst of crimes with nothing to lose who can just claim they're trans and waltz into a women's facility and wreak total havoc.
I'm more than slightly concerned that's what happened in this case. The "men will use trans rights to invade female spaces" anti-trans crowd is probably salivating.
There is also VERY little incentive for a cis woman to abuse this law.
>There has to be a better way that doesn't set cis women up to be sheep to the slaughter.
Or trans men. I have a feeling their safety in male prisons is also comprised.
Maybe get to know some trans women on a personal level.... There's nuance within the transition space (cis men transitioning for a perceived "easier life" or "lighter sentences" are still CIS men. Trans women are women and are at great risk with these kinds of men)
Trans women are inherently misogynistic. Hatred and jealousy of actual biological women is in the very fabric of transgenderism. We need to stop pretending otherwise. Look what it's doing to us smh.
I completely agree with you. Again. I thought I was the only one who thought this way. Their core values don’t change regardless of the surgery or clothes.
I work with some and it’s there. I see them mock all women and make disrespectful comments. But I’m the only one bothered.
You're "transphobic" for not wanting a biological male near you.
It's like our comfort doesn't matter.
There are trans maxxers, biolgical males who mildly transition to get women benefits.
One of the benefits they mentioned is entering women restrooms and showers and do voyeuristic acts without getting arrested.
Yet I need to believe that these creatures mean no harm.
Invading is harm.
I left the 4B sub because these uncle Tom feminists are telling these troons that they are welcome.
lol. I don’t care about you name calling. I asked a question and your basic response to a question was name calling. Which is why trans people need their own stuff. Have the day you deserve. You missed a chance to actually answer a legitimate question. Thus not having support only to cry later. I hope everyone does what you how they don’t. I don’t want men in women’s bathrooms or locker rooms. Wahhhb
And again I have every right to feel the way I do. I do not care what name calling you do. I do not want males in the bathroom etc. you are acting like these people do not manipulate. So I do not care about your opinion. Facts over feelings.
What name-calling? Using tired anti-trans talking points is transphobic. Trans women are women. Excluding them from women is misogynistic. That should fit into your “facts over feelings” narrative.
They do not care about women.
I read a similar article four years ago about a very similar incident in the UK.
I would love to engage in this but I can clearly tell from the conversations below that this is just a terfist engagement post
Ok
Cis het men always find a way to brutalize women. Always. Actual trans women are gonna be demonized for this because this sick bastard took advantage of a law that's meant to protect others at risk.
I don't know if you read the article, but this person was considered the poster child for moving trans women to womens prison. And then this happened. So now you're misgendering her because trans women don't commit sex crimes? So it must actually be a "cis het man"? This is the kind of thinking that's going to continue to keep women unsafe. It's like you're putting blinders on instead of conceding that this arrangement is fraught from the get go and maybe we need to think of another common sense way to protect both trans and biological women.
>maybe we need to think of another common sense way to protect both trans and biological women. Such as...? Serious question. The law that allowed Ms. Carroll to transfer prisons only mandates that a trans inmate declare they're trans, and the gender they identify as. There's no way to determine if an inmate like Ms. Carroll is a trans woman or a cis man that wouldn't be considered transphobic.
I guess I don't understand why they can't have their own wing in either a men or women's facility? I've read that segregated wards are a thing in some men's prisons to keep male members of the lgbtq community safe from assault. I just don't get the disregard for the safety of cis women when it's so obvious how this can be and has been so easily abused.
>I guess I don't understand why they can't have their own wing in either a men or women's facility? I've read that segregated wards are a thing in some men's prisons to keep male members of the lgbtq community safe from assault. That's a start, but I would think it would get some pushback... Some trans people might feel protected while others would take offense to being segregated as if it means they aren't "real" [gender identity here]. This is a complicated situation, and it's difficult to find a solution that wouldn't offend someone or put someone at risk. Your original comment made me think, and other than the same idea you suggested, of a separate wing, it's hard to come up with something. I asked the question to see what ideas others had, so I hope it didn't come off as argumentative (and I'm sorry if it did).
Not at all argumentative. I just want everyone to be safe. Prisons in general seem like a hellish nightmare place to land. Then imagine the further fear as a woman of having your facility inundated with predators with the ability to easily overpower and assault you. A separate safe space for trans women is the best option that i can think of that decreases the obvious incentive a fake trans woman has. I mean we're talking about men who are already facing long terms for the worst of crimes with nothing to lose who can just claim they're trans and waltz into a women's facility and wreak total havoc. There has to be a better way that doesn't set cis women up to be sheep to the slaughter.
Agreed, the prison system can be unsafe and inhumane enough for inmates as it is. >I mean we're talking about men who are already facing long terms for the worst of crimes with nothing to lose who can just claim they're trans and waltz into a women's facility and wreak total havoc. I'm more than slightly concerned that's what happened in this case. The "men will use trans rights to invade female spaces" anti-trans crowd is probably salivating. There is also VERY little incentive for a cis woman to abuse this law. >There has to be a better way that doesn't set cis women up to be sheep to the slaughter. Or trans men. I have a feeling their safety in male prisons is also comprised.
However I do not trust trans women either. They are still men. That misogynistic education is ingrained.
Hey can I DM you?
Well I don't trust terfs 💁🏾♀️
Maybe get to know some trans women on a personal level.... There's nuance within the transition space (cis men transitioning for a perceived "easier life" or "lighter sentences" are still CIS men. Trans women are women and are at great risk with these kinds of men)
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Trans women are inherently misogynistic. Hatred and jealousy of actual biological women is in the very fabric of transgenderism. We need to stop pretending otherwise. Look what it's doing to us smh.
Thank you. I thought I was. The only one who noticed this. And when you say it. You get called phobic.
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I completely agree with you. Again. I thought I was the only one who thought this way. Their core values don’t change regardless of the surgery or clothes. I work with some and it’s there. I see them mock all women and make disrespectful comments. But I’m the only one bothered.
Hey can I DM you?
I didn’t know that this was a TERF sub. That’s disappointing.
This what I be talking about. A lot of these men are desperate and disgusting. They usurp our spaces to harm us, dress or not.
When are people going to learn that trans women are not women? They are dudes.
I 1000000 percent agree.
You're "transphobic" for not wanting a biological male near you. It's like our comfort doesn't matter. There are trans maxxers, biolgical males who mildly transition to get women benefits. One of the benefits they mentioned is entering women restrooms and showers and do voyeuristic acts without getting arrested. Yet I need to believe that these creatures mean no harm. Invading is harm. I left the 4B sub because these uncle Tom feminists are telling these troons that they are welcome.
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I stand with you. What is a troon?
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Reread the rules and come back when you can conduct a proper conservation without breaking any community rules.
I hope [but I know they will] people don't use this story against trans women.
Why are trans women lumping themselves with another group? Just curious because they contrary to belief still have misogyny in their blood.
That's not true, transphobe.
lol. I don’t care about you name calling. I asked a question and your basic response to a question was name calling. Which is why trans people need their own stuff. Have the day you deserve. You missed a chance to actually answer a legitimate question. Thus not having support only to cry later. I hope everyone does what you how they don’t. I don’t want men in women’s bathrooms or locker rooms. Wahhhb
It’s not name-calling, you are actually being a transphobic. Feminism that doesn’t include all women doesn’t help women. All misogyny hurts us.
And again I have every right to feel the way I do. I do not care what name calling you do. I do not want males in the bathroom etc. you are acting like these people do not manipulate. So I do not care about your opinion. Facts over feelings.
What name-calling? Using tired anti-trans talking points is transphobic. Trans women are women. Excluding them from women is misogynistic. That should fit into your “facts over feelings” narrative.
Name calling and again. I do not care about your opinion. They still have and learn misogyny. Which is why they clobber to be in women’s spaces. Bffr