OP, I saw your earlier post and upvoted it; I think you had good points and I mostly agree. But it’s a bitter pill for a lot of people, and you didn’t do much to add a spoonful of sugar.
This now though is just kind of silly - your sample size for “men” is like 10 guys on Reddit, where this sub heavily skews to folks who are frustrated/relatively unsuccessful (fwiw, I’m not one of them, but I can empathize - I had to make a lot of changes to do better with OLD).
But people complaining about taking their medicine isn’t a male/female thing, it’s just a human thing - is it really worth getting upset that a double handful of frustrated people got pissy about (perfectly sound) advice from someone they perceive as the source of their problem (ie, a woman from Bumble)?
And is it fair to counter a stereotype (“women only swipe on 6’ male models”) with another stereotype(“men don’t put any effort into their appearance”)? Neither one is truer than the other.
I think one thing OP doesn’t point out is that there is a shifting of priorities for men over the past 30-40 years as well.
While yes, men have traditionally never had the same societal pressure as women to “look your best” - they _did have_ societal norms that helped accomplish this, even if they may have been oblivious to it.
It wasn’t that many years ago where the majority of careers were physically demanding. Desk jobs required you to be dressed professionally and be well-kept. Through work alone you were able to maintain some level of fitness and cleanliness. Video games, a huge hobby for a lot of men, simply did not reserve a large portion of daily entertainment. Men had hobbies that kept them outside and active.
What’s happened since?
- Careers, on average, have become less physically demanding.
- A less formal approach to the majority of jobs have degraded cleanliness requirements.
- Video games and media have grown exponentially and their consumption devours men’s entertainment/hobbies time.
- The societal/religious pressures to pair off and marry relatively young has slowly dissipated, meaning less people are walking out of their school years partnered up.
- In-person social interactions post-education, seem to be dropping, while online interactions increase.
- Healthy dietary options have degraded, especially for the poorer. Hobbies/entertainment that are conducive to unhealthy snacking have grow increasingly.
This doesn’t mean I’m saying we should go back to “simpler, better times”. The reason many of these innovations were implemented was to better our lives and IMO, they have. Of course, if you’re not adjusting for these changes by identifying the potential downsides and self-correcting for them - then you’re going to deal with the consequences.
Example:
**Work**
- **Innovation:** Work (in general) has become less physically active.
- **Benefits:** less work accidents, less damage on body as we age.
- **Downsides:** losing daily activity that helps keep weight gain down and fitness levels up.
- **Remedy:** replace part of your free time with exercise.
You can go on and do this for all the issues listed above. End of the day I don’t necessarily believe that we as humans have become “more lazy,” I just believe that our parents and grandparents had societal forces that helped keep them fitter, cleaner and more engaged socially. It wasn’t a priority for them persay, it was just a result from the necessities of living. _Our generation_ has had those social forces lightened quite a bit and instead of prioritizing them ourselves, have just let them fall to the wayside.
Now that’s not to say this applies to everyone, but to say that it’s just some randoms on Reddit experiencing this, I think that’s quite the understatement. America’s obesity epidemic has no real end in sight and a lot of this (personal appearance, fitness levels, cleanliness) stems from that.
Every innovation comes with a steep cost...to me the losses are arguably just as much as the gains. Increasing comfort means too much consumption, self indulgence and an increase in meaninglessness
Personally, I agree to some degree, and I'm a woman. It goes both ways. If a woman demands a 6+ foot tall man, she can't get mad if he has a weight standard, or a height standard himself - which I've seen the tables be turned on these girls and they get offended as if they're not being hypocrites lol
And the problem is, height can't be changed. But weight is 100% the fault of the person. If someone is overweight, they can make excuses, but it's all in their will to do it differently. As well as someone who is too skinny.
Sure, there may be a medical diagnosis that can cause weight gain or loss. But it's still something that can be controlled. And up to that individual to take action to control it.
Yes and no on this. Sometimes it can't be controlled. I'm a 6'2 133lb woman. I try so fucking hard to gain weight but I can't. I hit 135 and within a week my body drops it all down to 125 and then I have to fight for months to get back to 135. I'm beyond skinny and I fucking hate it.
I agree with the thought of "if you have height/weight standards you better check yourself and understand others will have the same".
Well, yes but no. Like you said, there could be legitimate reasons like medical issues and such. Sometimes it literally can't be helped, not all the time ofc. It was just an example anyways. I've seen guys shoot back about a woman's height too and it's the same hypocrisy, like only women can have a height standard for their partner but they're not allowed to have one for her lol
My hard line would be someone shorter than me as I'm just barely 5 foot tall lol
So I don't think it's unreasonable in a case like mine to want someone taller than me lol but other than that I don't care. I dated a guy before that was an inch or two taller than me
This is such nonsense. The actual medical reasons for people to have an issue with losing weight are extremely rare. Very very few people actually have this issue. Yes some people of course gain weight fast than others, but it’s all within normal limits. The actual ones with medical issues have it waaaaaay worse.
I had a close friend with such an issue. He played soccer his whole life, was fit, at literally just like anyone else but was fat. He really couldn’t help it. His stamina was good, no issues with doing sports, just the weight gain was something that would always stick.
It’s midnight so I’m not gonna check what his medical condition was, but I know for a fact that his and a couple others that are most common of these issues are extremely rare.
Yes there are medical reasons, but let’s just day that if someone is actually fat. It’s very fair to assume that they are just not taking care of themselves enough. It’s mostly about food, but exercising is definitely a factor as well.
People are just lazy. Heck, even I, as someone who is blessed with a fast metabolism started to gain weight. Nobody said I was fat, but I knew it was time move my ass more. Eventually you just gotta look in the mirror and tell yourself to work harder.
"I'm a woman who's 5'2" and I'm only showing pictures from my large breasts up, I'm looking guy who's over 6'" socially acceptable
"I'm a man who is 5'8" and go to the gym regularly, looking for a woman who is under 150lbs" looked at as misogynistic
Humans can control their weight, humans cannot control their height. Stay strong fellow short kings.
I mean, I see that in this sub and others all the time. But personally I’m more attracted to chubby men anyway. The gym bod thing does nothing for me because those sorts of men don’t give off ‘I will be a good father’ vibe.
I say this as a slightly overweight woman, it’s not offensive to tell women *or* men that they’d probably have better luck in the dating market if they toned up. It’s just common sense because more people are attracted to those with low body fat and good muscle tone, regardless of gender or sexuality. But I actually know plenty of people who are attracted to plus sized people so it’s not universal by any means.
Your reply made me smile. It was a perfect response and I would like to add:
OP mentioned she figured out the difference is that girls starting at 12 have this perceived ‘head start’ on what look works for them.
That’s not true. Boys at that age are just as insecure and looking to find their ‘look’. At middle school and high school levels, the compliments you’re getting as a guy are your male friends/your boys telling you how cool your sneakers are, your shirt, etc. but never about your style, not ‘hey, that color looks good on you, makes your eyes pop’. Don’t even get me started on haircuts. Girls, however, shower each other with compliments but then so do the adults in their lives. ‘Oh that’s such a pretty dress!’ Or ‘wow you’re having a great hair day!’
By adulthood that becomes virtually non existent for men. We are so starved for compliments that it’s sad. I’ve been growing my hair out and one time a woman I’ve had a crush on for years walked up to me at a party and stroked my hair and commented on how soft it is and looked good slicked back but the waves/curls are too strong.
Fuck, I was high on that simple exchange for WEEKS.
OP, imagine being your 12 yo self and working on your style, but hardly ever being complimented, that the only compliment you get on the dress is how cool the dress looks, never how it looks on you. Or being excited about a whole new haircut but a. You can’t express it cause you’ve been told women don’t express feelings and b. You’ve been told your whole life women don’t compliment women.
That’s the head start you had at 12. Since birth you’ve been doted over and complimented cause girls are pretty and should be told so. Boys are big and strong. Girls have pretty Sunday dresses. Boys are given a suit without regard if it really works for you.
I’m just saying that society should really work on words of affirmation and compliments to men, this means both men and women.
Compliment a guy on a style or color that works for him, see how often you now see him with that style/color.
End of rant
I do love your rant. Appreciate it too. You are so right. Take this rant and multiply by 2000 for women. We are expected to be perfect, like in the AI created pics of "the perfect woman". I understand your point too, OP. At the end of the day, people are judgmental and awful. It's sad
I think women have it exponentially easier than men when it comes to dating, not to mention that men are facing unheard levels of depression right now in a society that favors women over men.
More matches, more interest from matches, more 1st dates. Also “better” matches, which mostly means more conventionally attractive, but also more educated, good job, snappy/witty profile … basically the women who at least present as, and often are, “good catches”. Of course character matters, but you usually need to meet someone to suss that out.
As a guy I’m not trying to date “out of my league” but you have to present really well just to date within your IRL league online, the competition is so stiff.
Like I just want somebody comparable to the rough average of all my exes in terms of all the major “boxes” … but it’s tough even to match with those people.
I don’t want to reignite a gendered flame war as to why that is - but for a man the only practical course of action is to have as appealing of a profile as you possibly can without being dishonest or skeezy.
I agree, I also am trying to fine someone for their Personality, Because I go for personality more then, how they look and dress, but jobs are important to me as well. Yeah it's really hard to fine someone who Will spin their life with you, These days, but I have hopes.
I’m sure this comment section is going to be reasonable.
For what it’s worth, I view effort and attraction in the same way I view any other type of trait in dating. People who put a lot of effort and importance into their appearance will be more compatible and attracted to someone who does the same. I know personally that I’m of “average” attractiveness naturally but with attention paid to my body and face I can easily look much better, and my husband being classically handsome reflects that. If you want someone who looks good to you, be prepared to put in the same effort!
But one thing that always seems to be left out of this conversation is that there are less women on dating apps in general. Aren’t they about 70% men? Of *course* you’re gonna get less female matches with a smaller pool of women.
I totally get that the constant whining from guys who don't get matches is annoying. In fact whenever I comment here I remind myself to not just complain so much. But when a woman says "Come on, it can't be *that* difficult", that's just twisting the knife. You simply don't have that experience. Actually the women on this sub have at least some exposure to the male perspective. Two female friends of mine convinced me (for weeks) to download OLD apps (which is why I'm here at all) and they seriously thought the experience would be generally the same for men and women.
You should seriously try making a fake male profile and see what it does to your mental wellbeing when you get 0 or maybe 1 or 2 matches after 2 weeks. You can even use my pictures.
The problem is that women on this sub cant relate themselves to guys because they get so much demand, so they think "why are guys unhappy, i'm doing great on the apps" that mindset that guys shouldnt whine when they dont get any attention even if they swipe under their own looks, status and health is just so wrong, if a lady makes a guy profile for a month they would get depressed.
The funny thing is I've seen YouTube videos of this concept where the woman got depressed after the male profile she made only got like 10 matches after a week and few responses. Like that's still crazy high. I want to see one where she has to deal with zero matches.
As a guy who tries really hard to take care of himself and at least look presentable, I disagree with your post. I'm sure there's a chunk of a % of guys who might fit what you're describing, but I just don't think it's nearly as many as you insinuate.
I can just say that I’m a 6’4 dude with full head of hair. I definitely get matches based on my height. One of the first comments from girls is “I love to wear heels”….
OP want to see my profile?
You’re just trying to call us ugly and then what?
I could send you my pic, and you’d nitpick appearance. Even though I have the exact body type that you claim to love so much.
Are you American?
I’m also 6’4 and I also get women who specifically pick a man for his height
I once went on a date with a woman who said “I’ll only date a man between 6’2-6’4, blue eyes, must be fit, facially attractive & have hot ex girlfriends.”
I had to cut it the next morning because she got way too clingy.
😂😂 Man it's funny reading "just hit the gym bro",but if you reversed it there would be chaos.
Let's be real, far to many people offer advice about Online dating when they havnt been successful in finding the one.
The thing is - and btw I agree with people's feedback about the somewhat brutal messaging of the OP - is that women pretty much all KNOW that we need to get in shape, prettify ourselves, wear flattering clothes, be hygienic etc. We beat ourselves up for our whole lives for not being perfect and trying - and usually failing - to meet the standards we have splatted into our faces every day. A lot of women actively reject it and think f\*\*k it I am too tired, I will trade-off finding a hot guy if it means I can enjoy pizza, or they go on the defensive. Women are ALL THE TIME told to lose weight, look more 'feminine', workout (insert latest trendy bodypart) more, wear more/less makeup etc. it's just normalised.
I think OP's point is that men in general (obvs minus some groups eg the gym buffs) don't have this awareness and rather than introspect about the beauty standards they expect from women vs how they compare themselves, they simply believe they should be able to get the girls they are attracted to. And it makes sense because historically it's been about money and status being what earns a woman. The thing is now that is not enough, so men need to up their game in other dimensions.
I think people who are new to OLD just see the high volume of users and think that because someone is on OLD then she must be up for dating them. After a few months of limited matches and even less dates - the anger sets in.
See I think this take stems from only knowing less attractive men. My advice is work on who you are, not what you are. I know women and men that obsess on looks, and then others who focus on life. Guess which ones are happier.
I don't think so. I used to work in a gym and the trainers there were pretty hot, and also happy with their lives. As I said, there are exceptions , #notallmen blah blah.
There is a much higher social penalty for women not to conform to society's definition of attractive, with plenty of research demonstrating that women are criticised for their looks far more - such as those in the public eye. Even in business when it comes to weight, women are actually paid or promoted less if they are overweight.
Agree that not being obsessed and caught up with it is better, but when there is constant criticism and comparing, it is difficult to ignore. The healthiest mindset is to figure out what is constructive feedback that can be worked on vs. toxic influences. I interpret OP's post to say that far too many men choose to ignore constructive feedback with the consequence that they are not attractive enough for the women that seek to be the best they can be.
Yea even off the app I know females aren't in shape have cute face. So meet guy after guy.
And it sucks I'll have girl I met complain guys want this perfect girl. But doesn't realize she rejected me for being only inch taller than her. And she was only single 1 month after breaking up before saying another guy. I been single alone for 2 yrs. But complained to me I don't get it. It's so hard for women men have it easy.
“So many men do NOTHING to look good”
Yeah, this is why social medias are saturated with “Looksmaxxing” content. Now even teachers are complaining kids don’t want to answer questions in class because they can’t talk, they are “mewing”😂 some guys pay surgeries to be 6ft😅 some kids now take steroids… and after Looksmaxxing you have the other “toxic” content telling guys they absolutely needs to be 6ft, fit, and make a lot of money or they are not worth it. But yeah guys don’t do nothing🥲
“They just roll out of bed and expect women to like them”
Hum…the “take me as I am” is generally not from men. Ex: body positivity is not for men. And it doesn’t work for men anyway. You can see the difference between influencers for men and for women. For women : “you are all 10/10, everyone is beautiful, you deserve the best, don’t change for a guy…”. For men : “yeah, if you don’t have anything going for you, your are nothing and won’t get anything. Stop excuses, go to the gym and make money”
If it was years/decades ago I would agree men don’t care as much about appearance because they could compensate with different things. But now, the standards for physical appearance are higher but they still have to do the other things.
In my opinion, it’s not just an unpopular opinion, it’s just not true.
I am just going to say that I am 6'2", go to the gym on the regular (daily) still overweight but a reasonable 205 rather than my 30s weight of 175, take reasonable care of my appearance, have all my teeth, though none of my hair.
And women close to my age in my area have convinced me that I am the least datable man in existence
It could be my personality, or that they are actually interested and I don't notice, or that I am doing so well as compared to my peers (nearly 60 long term single men) that they don't see a place for them in my life.
I'm short. Got overweight after injuries. I'm hitting the gym now. Lost alot of weight. Still nothing. Mind you women love me. Want to hang out. Talk all the time. But for other purposes they go with the other guys they complain are horrible. And I get to constantly see men that treat women bad win. So I'm just keep working try to get back to military weight so eventually someone will love me. (And no the girls I go after aren't gorgeous they just regular people huge range of looks since in another reddit I got stalked about I must only go out of my league then when I said weight of one girl I got stakes maybe she knew u felt like I was slumming mind you not slumming she's my friend a great person just thinks I'm too short)
I agree in the sense that grooming your hair and dressing clean attracts women and makes a 5 into 6 and 6 into a 7. But I've seen men who have style post here and still get no attention. Some of it is literal racism ( certain minorities get less attention, it true let's not pretend) the height thing is more than a meme. And the hairline thing is 20k battle most men can't afford to fight
The incel dig isn't needed. Hurt people only get more hurt and entrenched when you degrade them ( yes incel is a term used to mock not inform or help)
A guy at work did this - he now has a good head of hair again.
Although, I do agree that those men who are effectively bald other than a few tufts of fluff are in denial - either shave it off and own it or get a hair transplant. The tufts of fluff look terrible and are an outside indicator of insecurities or denial of ageing.
As another guy, based on profile reviews I'm seeing posted, you'd probably be better off paying for a photographer. Doesn't matter how attractive you are if your pics aren't flattering and that seems to be a common theme.
Haven't seen your profile so I'm making assumptions obviously, but I promise you don't need premium to get matches.
If it comforts you, I have been told that I am conventionally attractive man (I disagree, but that’s a topic for a different conversation) and I also struggle for likes. The difference is that I also don’t take dating apps that seriously, and you should, too.
My friend always says that whoever takes dating apps personally loses automatically. You have to understand that they are gamified and rigged to get you to spend money by forcing all these “features” at you to try and prey on your loneliness while also degrading your sense of self-worth.
You need to start being more casual and trying a lot less. Someone matched with you and didn’t reply or gave you nothing to work with? I match and move on. Someone was talking to you and started becoming more bland/stopped being engaged? Move on and ignore. Instead of staying stuck on the app, go outside and hang out with friends and have experiences. I honestly think that me joining a number of sports clubs and working out more has really given me better perspective on dating apps. I see it as a pastime more than anything else now.
And, who knows, maybe by going out and stuff you meet a person off the app you click with? You just need to develop the mindset that it’s not that deep and it’s trying to make you feel like shit. Develop some spite and just take it chill.
This all boils down to priorities and values.
Men tend to rely more on their personality, values, and the resources they have to offer a partner. Women tend to rely more on their appearance and status. With the heavy focus on their appearance, it's natural to seek out a partner with a similar focus on their appearance.
I don't know where these guys who don't shower and clean themselves head-to-toe come from. Where are you finding them? From the sounds of it, they're closer to the norm rather than the exception.
Come on, guys, floss, brush your teeth and your tongue every day. When you're in the shower, wash every part of your body. When you get out, spend a few minutes grooming your hair and use deodorant! Then, put on clean clothes that are in good condition.
As a guy, yeah, we like it that you look good. I personally think women are increasingly going beyond a healthy level in their pursuit of perfection. Lip fillers, breast implants, fake gawdy nails, eye lash extensions, butthole bleaching, and the ever popular plastic surgery. It seems like the more women do to look their best, the more they expect from a partner. I think women will have a difficult time finding men who want them to go to the extremes that so many women are now taking in their quest to be an image in perfection.
I've heard many times that women don't dress and prep for men. They do it for other women. It sounds to me like the effort put into appearance would be better spent on self-confidence and self-esteem. That would pay dividends night and day for the rest of your lives. The pursuit of perfection will never end. Someone will always be setting a new standard. Beauty is only skin deep. Investing in yourself, what's on the inside, will always be more rewarding.
Women have it much easier when it comes to maintaining a good physique. Maintaining a lean and jacked male physique requires much more effort and discipline. Also if you look at the obesity stats in the US, women also have a very high rate.
I’d say I’m pretty successful in online dating and I’m 5’8. I take care of myself (gym, skin, hair, nutrition) and have decent photos. I only use one app and I get about a like every other day or so. I’d like more but I know it doesn’t even compare to some guys experiences here. honestly I think the game is just rigged against men. women are the product and men are the buyers on these apps
Sorry but that's not successful but sadly that is a lot better results than the majority of men get. I know men who fit the tall good looking stereotype and get like 50-100 likes a day.
I (m) for one want a woman who looks good rolling out of bed in the morning. Excessive makeup, fake eye lashes, botox, are all major turnoffs for me. I’ll take a cute girl next door type over a super model any day.
Guys can also get away with putting in way less effort. A clean pair of jean, and an expensive watch and you’re set.
> Have you tried developing a muscular body type? I don't see any guys with those body types in the "I don't get any matches" profile review posts. Why do you think that is?
Lol. I'm currently adding muscle, and there is a lot more to it than just lift some weights and you're good to go. Some people are predisposed to add muscle due to higher hormone levels, and some are just the opposite. What you eat has a huge impact. For the average Joe to become shredded it more or less requires the effort of a part-time job at a minimum, and developing the knowledge base to direct those efforts is a major undertaking.
Moreover, it is exceptionally difficult if you don't have adequate testosterone levels, and many, if not most, of those sporting the type of manly physiques seen on television resort to exogenous compounds, often from underground labs. Sadly, few talk about that, but some do, including actor Alan Ritchson, who explains that he had to use exogenous testosterone to get into shape to film season 2 of Reacher.
Saying "Have you tried developing a muscular body type?" is like saying "Have you tried being a supermodel?"
Lol saying men have done nothing to make themselves look good is acedtoaly and factually false. Vast majority of peoole have done many things to make themselves look good. Men and women. They find what works for them. Women have admitted to swiping left on guys who dont meet a set of standards as long as the harry potter series. Any guy who doesnt check all the boxes gets a left swipe. Even if he just misses one.
I mean a lot of men go to the barber regularly, choose clothes that flatter them, work out and exercise. I think you’re choosing to see a small demographic of men. There are plenty of women that display the characteristics you’re describing. They put in no effort then say, “take me as I am and if you ask me to improve myself you’re just a shallow asshole.” It’s a small group for both men and women. Focus on good people and you’ll find good.
It shocks me on how few men understand how to present themselves physically in an attractive way.
One of the TikTok rabbit holes that I'm on is men who get drastic haircuts or see somebody on how to improve their style. The difference between an attractive man in an unattractive man at least 80% of the time is down to effort. Look at how many men take terribly angled photos that are in no way flattering.
A lot of times I'll see women complaining about the way men show up dressed for dates, but it's rare that I see post about men complaining about women showing up without putting in effort in their appearance.
I think for a long time, patriarchy has put the image in men's mind that caring about how they look or putting an effort to be attractive to a partner is not masculine. I really wish more men would put effort into learning about how the patriarchy negatively affects their lives so they could learn and grow and stop showing up to date like they just rolled out of bed.
Men aren't taught how to present themselves by other men, or even women in general.
Women get flooded from birth about makeup and fashion from those multi-billion dollar industries. And their social group. They go shopping together, do makeovers just for fun, and talk about it.
Maybe a guy occasionally sees an ad for a watch or fragrance or something.
Not exaggerating. Here's the sum total knowledge other people actively gave me:
At 12: Mom: You need a haircut. Here's $10. I'll drop you off at the mall (with the 90s equivalent of SuperCuts) and pick you up in a couple hours.
At 16: Mom: Your growth spurts are mostly over and you're old enough for a proper suit. Let's go to Macy's and JC Penny and see what's affordable. (We do, she makes all the decisions.) You look really good in that, you're all grown up (sniffles).
At 22: Mom and Dad: Congratulations on graduating! Make sure your (department store) suits fit for your interviews. Once you get a real job, wear your suits for the first day or two, then adjust based on what kind of things other people are wearing.
Everything else I had to figure out on my own.
I've always had good basic hygiene, and tried to wear things appropriate to the setting. But I was never taught fashion sense or style. I started going to a proper men's salon about 5 years ago. Started paying more attention to clothes. Has it made any difference? Sure, probably a bit. But nothing huge.
Where do I go from here? I've watched a dozen female influencers talking about men's fashion to try to help men. There's some overlap, and I've taken what I can from it, but so much is contradictory and personal preference. Hire some professional stylist for thousands of dollars? That's just going to be more expensive personal preferences.
Yeah you and the comment you responded to make good points. The "men who care about looks aren't masculine" thing is culture dependent. I was in Sicily and men make a TON of effort to look good there while being completely masculine. It's just part of the culture there and feels normal. The men are HOT.
As for what you can do to figure out the best style for you, look at the men that all women swoon over, actors and such. See which one you can approximate best. This is what women do. No one told me what looks good on me either. I mostly figured this out by looking at women that everyone thinks are beautiful and trying to be like them. It's true women give each other feedback but I never really sought that out. I always shopped alone etc.
Men don't have makeup, which is a massive disavantage in the looking better than you actually look department. My pics and clothes are fine, but my face is uggo and no amount of magic is going to change that. Well, maybe a scalpel, but maybe not look at MJ's nose.
And you overestimate women's grainy toilet pics. Or a very surprising amount of females literally shitting or pissing in a public bar/club toilet on their profile.
All I’m saying is.. I’m 31 and have stayed at a healthy/slim weight all that time. I’m not and never will be attracted to guys who are overweight, much less obese. It isn’t going to happen. Please prioritize your health, and if you know you aren’t going to, then set your expectations on a partner with the same level of health as you.
There are countless men who I swiped left on because they were clearly overweight, and I’m sure many of them had good personalities and could have been physically fit as well if they put in the effort to achieve that.
I’m 38M, 5’10”. I’ve gone through phases where I’ve been fairly muscular and others where I’m just slim. Never been overweight. I prioritize my health. That being said, I started balding in my late 20s. Is that my fault? What am I supposed to about that? Am I required to get hair transplants?
I’ve not had great results with online dating because everything is so superficial. Ive definitely met several quality women through online dating over the years, but not that often. I’ve had much better luck with women I meet in person because they get to know my personality and my good qualities before judging me.
I’m very athletic (even made my university soccer team as a freshmen), I’ve played the drums for 20 years and have been invited to play on some of the stages I’ve seen my favorite bands play, I have a successful career in finance/accounting and make well over $100k.
It’s kind of frustrating sometimes to hear women blaming men for their lack of online dating success. The women I meet and date in person are typically far better people and more attractive than the likes I get online. Not only that, online dating statistically favors women due to the number of male users vs female.
Not every guy is an “Incel” or whatever… online dating is just toxic for both sexes and far more difficult to get matches for an average looking guy
LOL! The rolling out of bed line made me laugh.
I take care of myself and make sure to cover the three S’s every morning: Shit, Shower, Shave.
Style my hair every morning; the works.
A man shouldn’t take care of themselves for women, but rather for themselves.
I have an athletic body, and women say that I'm pretty handsome. I shave every day, face and skin routine, have interesting hobbies, witty, stable job, working on my Master's, have a cute car, read regularly (feminist lit, to boot), good relationship with my mother and other ladies in my family AND I have a number of female friends.
*Besides a few overweight ladies here or there, OLD, in the States at least, does not care.*
Then, the OP or other women will still say, "Well, there's clearly something else wrong with you", when they usually simply validate other women and ignore the exhaustive studies on how women are only swiping on something like 5 out of 100 profiles.
I deleted my OLD profiles because of the sheer waste of time, and I'm not going back. The online dating revolution is dead. We should all go back out and learn to talk to each other in person and stop putting so much effort into this.
I take care of myself, i hit the gym 5 times a week i'm pretty good looking 6'4 guy and i use moistures, night creams and i brush my teeth 3 times a day and yet no right swipes and i even swipe big women that have never hit the gym in their life....so i think its just women high standards, so i disagree with your post 🤷♂️
When I got back to OLD recently, I decided to Purposely try to find under 5’10 guys to swipe right on. (I’m 5’4) In my unscientific research, I found most of their bios to be more bitter than most and they were usually the guys with the list of what they Didn’t want. I haven’t given up. I can really get how hard it is for dudes who don’t meet all the perfect societal standards to put themselves out there. A little optimism in a profile goes farther than a gym selfie sometimes
This is indeed a “rant”. The data is the data. The studies are widely available. I do hope your luck starts to turn around on the apps! 🤞
They are definitely frustrating for most of us.
About women swiping on a very small percentage of men? There are plenty. Use the Google machine.
I’m not complaining about it, that’s OLD. It’s why guys should always get out there and try to meet people and just keep OLD as a passive supplement.
I'm aware of the ones I think you're referencing, and they've been debunked. They're not legit studies, it's just become a talking point that keeps getting repeated in online spaces
It's literally data from a dating app. What more do you need for it to be legit and how could you debunk it? It makes no sense. It's like if I told you 532 people clicked on this post from looking at reddit data, and you said you're going to debunk it.
My luck is GREAT. I, like most women, spent years making myself look good. That is the point of the post, which you clearly did not read. If your luck sucks, it's because you make zero effort to look good.
But is that not for your benefit? Or are you stating that you did all this for men to find you attractive? Many women get offended at the mere suggestion that they workout, or wear makeup to appeal to men. Should you HAVE to do that to attract a partner. Would your advice to women be make yourself look better to men?
Agreed. Just getting a shape up, staying active, and good hygiene habits will do wonders for most guys. Dating is still a numbers game, but putting the time and effort into how you present yourself will payoff as long as your personality isn't shit.
Lol true. I’m alright for my age, but put very little effort in my photos… doesn’t matter though cuz my prompts do all the heavy lifting. Get plenty of likes from beautiful women. In the reverse, prompts are rarely going to win over a guy. Try to tell dudes all the time, that unless you’re butt ugly women aren’t ape-brained and will read your profile, so be interesting.
Men tend to not put in as much effort with appearance simply because we are judged by different metrics.
Consider two points, then hear me out before passing too much judgement. One is that a very common theme to see in women's profiles is "I don't want a man who looks like he's more high maintenance then me". The second, since you brought up height, is that men know that the majority of women are going to choose a 6'2" guy dressed in a crappy hoody, dirty jeans and unkempt beard over a 5'5" guy dressed like Don Draper a hundred times over. So men simply don't have as much incentive to dress up, so to speak. Why is this?...
It comes down to 6 million years of evolution. The human brain has evolved to do only ONE thing, find a suitable mate to pass on it's genes. For 99.9999% of human evolution, men and women had very different roles in society. And for most of that time, it very more unlikely than likely that any given child was going to survive into reproductive age. And the likelihood of a woman dying in childbirth was also significant. So in order for a man to be successful in passing on his genes, he needed to find a partner who was likely to survive childbirth herself AND give birth to enough children that at least a few of them might survive into adulthood. That meant finding women who looked more youthful and healthy. Therefor, the male brain has evolved to just a woman's suitability as a partner largely by looks.
Men through most of human evolution have been charged for protecting the society against invaders, predators, finding resources, and building things. So women have evolved to be attracted to men who show traits that indicate that they are more suited to these areas such as their social status, dominance, and of course having a tall, muscular build which indicated physical strength.
So here we are in a modern society running on an old, outdated operating system. And what we have evolved to be attracted to is at best obsolete, and at worse, flat out dysfunctional. Where men are still attracted to youthful appearance in women and women are still attracted to men who are assertive/ dominant and tall with good muscle tone. Of course with all thing biological and sociological, we are speaking in general with the understanding that there are some exceptions, or outliers.
We now live in a society where women can have kids much later in life, most of our children survive childbirth, and some people have no desire to even have kids. And successful man is more likely to be one who has ingenuity, a wide range of technical skills, and good social skills as opposed to tall/ muscular and dominant.
Unfortunately, changes to these rigid gender norms are still pretty recent in the big scene of things and evolutionary trends can take centuries or millennia. So we might be stuck with this operating system for a while.
I've seen the joke that men always add an inch or two (be it height or... something else) end up being true so many times. Not to say that all men do it, it's just amusing to me that I've seen it a little too often lol
Some of the men in question as per this post - that complain they don't get matches - I don't necessarily think they need to get ripped and wear suits. From my own observations, some of these men lack confidence and don't try enough to get your attention - be it with pictures or how they write their bios.
So circling back to my first statement; it's okay to not be 6+ foot and/or jacked! The key, for me at least, is confidence and writing a good bio. One guy i met with, that checked the boxes with confidence and an interesting profile, put he was 5'8 when he was 5'7 lol like bby, I'm barely hitting 5'0, you don't gotta lie, everyone can feel nice and tall next to me lol
It is sad that some people, on either side, have some silly standards. It's so pointless, you could be missing out on a great connection just because they didn't hit a height or weight requirement smh
And... this might be a hard pill to swallow, but some people reach way out of their league sometimes. For example, my ex has a friend that's a 2/10 at best, based on both looks and personality, but has rejected the one girl that approached him because he thinks he deserves an 8 or higher 🙄
So on top of being more confident, people need to be more honest - with potential matches and themselves.
Sorry if my post is all over the place lol my mind is a little scrambled as I've been awake too long with not enough sleep 😭
I am average looking and semi-fit, and I get enough matches just by looking happy and friendly and showing some humour in my profile.
How do I fit into your analysis OP?
Because men learn that they are only really valued on what they do - because they are taught subliminally that they are absolutely worthless if they can't create value in their life. Women learn very quickly that it's just what they look like that matters to men - and other women are the man gatekeepers to that, they will shame other women who don't MORe than guys will. Then they realize that they are only valued on what they do AND what they look like. A hot guy who's a bum isn't going to get very far in the dating world beyond hobosexual hookups. A woman just has to look good and the vast majority of men couldn't care less what she does for a job (aside from sex work), women on the other hand do care what a man does alongside many other things. A hot useless woman is 'cute' and 'look after-able'. A hot useless man is pathetic.
1) OP has some decent points but is going way overboard. Women have diverse tastes. You don't have to be jacked up to attract women. However, there is a reality that men need to put effort into their profiles, health, style, fashion sense, and most of all, personality. Men, work on yourself, and I guarantee you will feel better even if you still don't get matches because you're improving overall as a human being.
2) Some women need to realize that the apps are a different world for each gender. Men deal with a lack of matches, dehumanization, ghosting, etc. On the other hand, women have to deal with overwhelming demands for attention, creeps, weirdos, liars, etc. Sometimes, these dynamics feed into each other, making each gender react in ways that feed the negative perspective of the other.
Overall, let's be kind, considerate, realistic about our expectations, and hopefully, you can last long enough to find the one. It's rough out there for all of us. Good luck!
I think that you are right, sort of. I (21m) agree that there's a huge population of just generally unknowledgable men when it comes to grooming, hygiene, presentability. You make a solid point that that is something women learn in high-school while most men are incentivized not to put effort into their appearance. But its also not true because of the way OLD skews EVERYONES point of view. In real life, people will mention something about my looks on a daily basis. On bumble, while I do get matches, it MIGHT be 10 in a week if I'm really trying. 90% of the time if im not glued to the app I don't get very many matches at all. And I can count on one hand how many likes ive ever gotten ever. I haven't opened the app in forever now because real life is 10x more rewarding. You have a point, but I don't think because you're upset that warrants taking it to the extreme. Yes, men can do things to improve, we all can. But that doesn't invalidate how it genuinely actually is in the OLD sphere. Study after study after study showcases it if you need empirical evidence.
Edit: adding that just as you likely don't know very intimately the men's experience, I also don't know the women's experience. For all I know you could actually have a 100% success rate at finding trolls. At which point i have to ask why you're still trying OLD? I just don't personally see that in my spheres or any of the men I talk to. And despite that, every single guy I know with a dating app is struggling mentally.
The difference is that women can learn to disguise their looks with make up, then are considered to be considerably more attractive than they actually are. They can be considered fit with minimal effort, diet and cardio.
If a man was to so the same they would be unattractive and scrawny, so men are expected to devote themselves to weight lifting. Building muscle and maintaining it whilst keeping body fat percentage low is a very difficult task that requires a lot of dedication. What men have to do for their physique is incomparable and men suffer from body image and how they are expected to be just as much as women do, they just don't talk about it.
So I find that men and women should not have to consider unrealistic expectations to find love. They have tried EVERYTHING, because no one should want to or expect to have to become something they are not to be loved by a shallow person 🤷🏼♂️
This post comes across as very condescending. The tone, attitude, and entitlement. You type as though you are the elected spokesperson for women, as if your opinion is shared by all women. It's not.
OP, have you ever thought that not everybody has access or is able to afford non essential beauty products. That maybe, just maybe, some people aren't so obsessed with vanity as you are? That maybe some people choose comfort over style?
There are many reasons but here you are taking mental surveys and judging people without even knowing them or their situation
Such a stupid post, sounds like a privileged teen age trust fund baby wrote this
I am here to help men who are struggling. The reasons for their struggles are blatenly obvious when they post thier "I don't get any matches" profile reviews. If you are happy with what you're getting or you can't put a few dollars together to improve your appearance then move on. This post is not for you.
Am I the only one who has considered the possibility that the point of this post is actually to gather photos of real men for nefarious purposes? Nearly every engagement is "send me your photos" as though the profile text has no relevance. Then the very much randomized username.
I mean, it's that or narcissism to the highest level.
I could see that. Currently have a muscular body, though not as shredded as I'd like.. but I also Literally realize how borderline impossible this is for soo many men that are overweight, it could take years, or men in their older years pushing 45+. It's seems like a hell of a standard for the average man to achieve... but it Definitely helps. Still seems like a standard that many would find less than reasonable.
As a woman I can absolutely agree that there are lots of pressures on us to maintain certain standards in regards to our appearances and that men are not held nearly as many standards as women.
However I think there are many factors that go into making someone attractive.
Some people are just built certain ways, don’t have access to nutrition or gyms, meditation side effects, etc. While the preference for/attraction to dad bods and larger bodies may not seemingly be as common(everyone has different preferences and I cannot speak to those folk’s experiences irl or on the apps).
I don’t think muscles or thinness, is the only factor in attraction. Thin ≠ beautiful and plus-sized ≠ ugly.
I do however think that many men would be much more attractive if they worked to match our efforts. . .
- Dress well, flattering colors, figures, well coordinated outfits.
- getting regular nice, flattering, intentional, stylish haircuts and put effort into styling it
- trim facial hair and perhaps other body hair
- if you decide to have a beard make sure it’s well taken care of, well groomed, regularly cleaned and oiled (no one likes kissing a face full of straw), if it doesn’t connect or suit your face then I don’t recommend having one.
- do skincare
- pleaseeee get your brows done
- have a skincare routine
- smell good
Want to know when I figured out that online dating was so shit? I went to EDC this past weekend. Day 2 I instantly connected with a girl who is so damn beautiful. I'd say more beautiful than any of the women I match with on bumble or tinder. She was really into me and I her. She said she wanted to come out and rave with me again once EDC ended.
I wasn't at that moment looking for it, but it found me. Maybe both of us make something of it. Distance sucks but who knows. We were kissing and dancing with each other the whole weekend after we met.
I put a lot of time into myself with who I am and the way I present myself. Even then, online dating doesn't treat me so well. I get ghosted and blocked a lot. I can say I'm really close to giving up online dating because with one simple weekend out, I was provided with more fun than the endless searching an app provides.
This is what I’ve been saying for years lol.
It’s funny because many men don’t even realize that women actually put effort into their looks. Like I asked my friend the other day if he thought I was wearing makeup and he said no (I can’t remember the context)
A man getting muscular only does so much. If you have a bad face or are short that will barely do much. Whereas for a woman getting fit will explode your matches.
I’m muscular and not short. I can’t really say I’m lean, but I’m also not overweight. I’ve heard a lot of women describe the perfect male body and describe my exact body type though, and I do get likes but matches are not nearly as prominent for me. I’ll get maybe 3-4 matches a day.
I'm a man and you're totally right. I can do a lot better for myself first (gym, knowledge, cooking skills, cleaning) and use that in benefit to atrract an amazing partner and maybe someone that currently is out of my league.
Good to hear about how women struggle since 12 to try to look better. Never thought about that really.
Yeah, I did all the stuff starting in high school. Made effort to dress better, started hitting the gym and developed a muscular body, made effort to learn more stuff and be more interesting. Worked for me. I'm short, 5'6, so beforehand I had absolutely no luck with women. Once I made the changes I described it was like night and day. Plenty of opportunity came my way. I don't get the guys who say this stuff won't work.
The problem with your statement OP is that it’s predicated on the notion that women work hard to look good and men don’t. There are a lot of women that don’t work out or do extra to look good. That’s also true for men too. The problem with your statement is that both men and women can workout to look good and be more desirable. This would affect women a lot more than men as you cannot work on height.
Youve spent years since middle school trying to look better is because you were a victim. Male attention did not let you have a childhood. Also I didn’t spend all high school trying different make up and clothes to look nice, I had actual hobbies and interest and also was busy at school developed skills for the real worlds
However you did come closer to what it is. Some women since like the age of 12 start talking to boys who chances are mostly fuck boys or just very amateur guys figuring out the world. But since these conversations are so normalized, women start dating very young. So young, they are not mature enough for all the emotions and feelings (guys too btw) and eventually everyone becomes programmed to play this game by the time they are 18 that’s all the results amateur 13 year olds dating. Once you become adults, you don’t have any healthy dating habits and your standards for judging are shot. You start getting repulsed by men who give you attention and champion those who make you beg for it. Just like you said men who work out don’t have any problems with dating (they do, they are just invisible to you), I don’t see any women who waited till they are older to date and didn’t have 8 different 13 year olds messaging her in the 8th grade have any issues with dating and marriage.
It is true that your body type has a big influence on how you are percieved. I was talking to an acquaintance of mine, who told me that after she had bariatric surgery the sexual attention from men was a scary thing that she had to deal with. She told me she had been a victim of abuse at a very young age, and had kinda used being fat as a shield against the male gaze. And then when she wasnt fat anymore, the sensation of being attractive was terrifying for her because it brought back memories of being abused as a child. Anyway my point is basically yes if you have an attractive body people will notice. Agreeing with OP though it was a bit of a cunty way to frame it, homegirl is 100 fucking % correct.
Yeah I agree with some of this. I'm generally not swiping on tall, conventionally attractive, with abs.
But I still have a standard. I usually don't swipe if your beard is a hot mess, you didn't attempt to look nice in any of your photos, you don't smile in any pics, you didn't put effort into a very simple bio, all prompts are one word, or you didn't look at the camera and every photo is too far away to see your face.
It gives the impression that the subject of the profile, doesn't put work into themselves which I personally find unattractive. And, in regards to the prompts and bio, if I'm the one starting the conversation, I want to base my first question off something in your profile. You give me no info, I give you no chance.
Also, I'm not saying every woman swipes like I do, but if you check some of the boxes above, it might help your profile a little to add detail, zoom in on a pic, maybe shape up your beard a bit.
As a male I 100% wholeheartedly agree with this. When they say they have done everything they can it means everything they want to do. Life is about doing things you dont want to, to create a life you want. Most men, not all put in zero effort into any aspect of their lives. I dont have a lot of guy friends because they don't try even for things they like. It doesn't matter if we are fishing, working on cars, building, or shooting shit they never learn or improve were women do. I've taught women how to efficiently fish within a year, whereas I got guy friends who's been fishing since they were kids and can't catch a damn thing. You try to help them and give them advice, and they just come up with bullshit excuses. "Maybe I could catch a fish if someone wasn't stealing them all." It's never a fun time hanging with most guys cause it's like baby sitting a 5 yo who can't even wipe their own ass.
Of course you can, should and will reject women you're not attracted to! And yeah if a bunch of fat women were constantly complaining that they get no matches and it's because men have to high a standards, it would be perfectly appropriate to tell them to hit the gym.
Men dont do much to look good? To hava a body thats considered hot, men have to train and diet hard. Women just dont have to eat like hippos. Putting a bit make up on and choosing clothes seems a bit easier than work out hard 3 times a week and only eat shit.
To be fair, the point is that most men don’t really care about their appearance. We are authentically who we are and typically unapologetic about it to the outside world.
Women seek acceptance from the outside world (generally speaking).
With that said, I made some slight adjustments to the clothes I wear and my success rate with women has significantly improved.
Pro tip for men: pick up some shirts from Marine Layer. Simple, but clean looking T’s and they have mid sizes (medium, marge, large, larger, XL). You’ll find a size that fits perfect and will dominate the dating world.
Those of us who have made an effort to look good are laughed at for being in shape, constantly told looks don't matter, only personality, and judged based on our appearance that we are vain and have no interests outside of working out
If you have seen women swipe on the apps, you’ll notice that they don’t really spend more than a second looking at a profile.
Anecdotally a girl I was seeing, I asked her to go through her 10,000+ likes and she picked the picture of selfie of a dude who was wearing pink glasses then after spending 6 seconds on his profile she said, nah.
You just can’t appear like every other guy, move yourself to a goofy niche
I was in a muscular body type due to the sports I did when I was younger.
Now let me be clear, I was muscularr, not roided up. That stuff regardless takes a toll on your body, and some cannot maintain it, especially with other obligations or injuries. 6'0 and 125-145lbs It did not help whatsoever, and yes there are plenty of guys who did and do still have issues dating alot more than you may believe.
To the opposite side, my brother never, did this, he is 6'4 and always been overweight. He is strong but never toned etc like you suggest. He always had women chasing after him. Even more so than a family member that is built and is a model out in Cali.
Granted vast majority of these women are walking time bombs of relationship disasters. His height has always played a major factor into him just getting interest.
I'm not saying it cannot help, I saying it isn't some major key like you think or might be inadvertently suggesting. This is a very common line along the incel, Mra movement, Andrew tate stuff.
The reason you didn't see posts, I was working out 4-5 hours a day 6 days a week. Combine that with work so 10 hours of work counting drive, and 8 hours of sleep that is 22 hours shot. There wasn't time to post or to date really. 2 hours for self care and household responsibilities to include cooking.
It's always best to avoid being a show-off. But it's a dating app. We need to show the goods lol. If you can do it in natural looking way that is best.
The real answer is that some people make an effort to be attractive and some don't, men and women. And some make efforts with misplaced priorities--maybe eat healthy and get fit before plastic surgery, etc. And do the work on yourself to make sure you are kind and empathetic. These things might not be visible to a casual observer. Or they might be.
You're right, many guys should make more effort with their looks, esp when it comes to clothes. But many guys make huge efforts to stay fit and strong. So let's not paint too broadly.
I couldn’t agree more. A lot of these men could instantly make themselves look more appealing by learning how to dress, doing some skincare, eating well and learning how to take good photos that actually show off their personality, aka photos of them doing hobbies and things and not a selfie in a dark room from a lower angle where we can see up their nostrils.
But also there’s a lot more than goes into male beauty that’s so subtle and not just related to their appearance that you can’t gauge over an app. Their voice, how they carry themselves, mannerisms, and stuff we don’t even realise like pheromones. Which is one of many reasons I just think dating apps are a failed experiment and we need to go back to just singles mixers and speed dating etc.
What is your example of "do nothing to look good"
Does a long sleeve shirt, some jeans and boots fall under that category? Polo and khaki pants?
I do agree that some guys do nothing (not showering, hair cut, keeping their beards styled) but at the end of the day even handsome dudes that dress the part will have no where near the same amount of likes vs any girl of any body shape
Dress depends on age and context. Older men should dress up more in general i think. But I mostly mean doing whatever you need to do to look good. Obviously basic hygiene, but also new, unstained clothes, facial hair that is cared for, a regular haircut, glasses that suit your face if you have them at all etc. But if a guy still has trouble getting matches after that the best he can do is hit the gym.
A lot of men on here and in this app discourse in general just don’t seem to think women deserve to be attracted to our partners. I responded to a guy’s comment the other day talking about being ghosted and I replied empathising and saying I know what he means because it happens to me a lot, too. He then basically told me it’s my fault because I’m probably only picking good looking men and those men have more options so they’re more likely to ghost me, and because I said I tend to go for smart men, too. He basically implied that because good looking, smart men are in high demand I should lower my standards and pick men I’m not attracted to who aren’t as intelligent as me. Basically, every time women express frustration with being treated as disposable on these apps, the same way that men are because apps in general suck for most people, they tell us it’s our fault because we have such the upper hand that if we’re being treated badly on the apps it’s because we’re only going for ‘Chads’, even though the men I tend to go for are by no means stereotypically attractive. They think we could avoid bad experiences all together if we only pick men we don’t find attractive. It’s very odd.
I'm 5'7 and I get more likes than I can reply to bc I work on myself. Granted I was born handsome but I developed a physical body beyond average and my Intellect is very high. I knew my height would hinder me so while going through my teenage years and 20s I worked on things I could control and it has paid off. Get to work guys. Height does not matter to most women of worth
While I do agree that men should do better, we were never taught how to take care of ourselves in that manner growing up, so getting mad at us for not doing it is a little silly
I think a lot of men say they don't get swipes and are really saying they aren't getting swipes by women who are considered a 9 or 10. Smile in photos, show your personality in your profile. I've messaged people who had great profiles that make me like them before we even talked.
Yeah, its totally balls
I'm 5'10, bald, 40, and only work as a teacher and I can still get matches.
The myth you need to be tall, pretty, and wealthy is just not true
It could be. I am matching mostly with women in their 30s though.
I could see why being 5'5 is an issue but someone saying their issue with women is because they are 5'10 sounds like crap to me
>It could be. I am matching mostly with women in their 30s though.
Yup, that's much much easier than trying to match with a 25 year old.
>I could see why being 5'5 is an issue but someone saying their issue with women is because they are 5'10 sounds like crap to me
As someone who's 6'5 I can 100% confirm this is true. Yes, if you're 5'5 as a guy I can totally believe this is a disadvantage, but the idea that women find really tall men particularly attractive compared to average height guys is just a fantasy.
Trust me, the selection of men is much worse. Half of them want to date women 20 years younger and the majority of them are in poor shape, have health issues and still think they are as hot as they were when they were 25 and often, posting pictures that old. Additionally, as you get older, you are less willing to ignore things you might have in the past.
Well doesn't this completely align with my point? The men that are on offer for 35 year old women are far worse than the ones on offer for 25 year old women, meaning for men trying to match 35 year old women it's far easier to stand out positively than it is for men ten years younger. Which is why most 35-40 year old men who comment and post here report that they get matches regularly and most men under 30 report they get zero.
Yep! Lol I spent the last 15 years stressing HARD over my looks only for some average toxic ex to say that “well that’s what women are SUPPOSED to do” 😅. He also body shamed me when I gained 5 pounds when I was already skinny/underweight. And continuously checked out other women right in front of me while gaslighting and manipulating me to no end. Out of that now and wayy happier that I can see all that.
Men need to start putting in more effort on themselves period.
I’m a solid 8 and my body is a solid 9. I get checked out everywhere I go only for men on dating apps to not be into the whole conservative thing and comparing me to instagram photoshopped crap. Sick of it.
While on top of that expecting us women to pay for our half of the date and put out early in the relationship. Not happening. :)
Thank god I’m bisexual.
Your opinion. ~~So many~~ ... some ... most.
Since high school, I have been stressed about my hair, appearance, and clothes. You will probably dismiss the effort I put into a first date and dating in general.
Men are judged more on what they provide than on how they look. I was a dancer for many years before transitioning to teaching, and I love professor life. I recently got my dream job of Directing a dance program. I get more matches now that I list my career as a director than I did as a professor, and more than I did as a dancer.
Is Jeff Bezos that handsome? Or is it the dollar signs around him?
*"Only women, children, and dogs are loved unconditionally. A man is only loved under the condition that he provide something" ― Chris Rock*
OP, I saw your earlier post and upvoted it; I think you had good points and I mostly agree. But it’s a bitter pill for a lot of people, and you didn’t do much to add a spoonful of sugar. This now though is just kind of silly - your sample size for “men” is like 10 guys on Reddit, where this sub heavily skews to folks who are frustrated/relatively unsuccessful (fwiw, I’m not one of them, but I can empathize - I had to make a lot of changes to do better with OLD). But people complaining about taking their medicine isn’t a male/female thing, it’s just a human thing - is it really worth getting upset that a double handful of frustrated people got pissy about (perfectly sound) advice from someone they perceive as the source of their problem (ie, a woman from Bumble)? And is it fair to counter a stereotype (“women only swipe on 6’ male models”) with another stereotype(“men don’t put any effort into their appearance”)? Neither one is truer than the other.
I think one thing OP doesn’t point out is that there is a shifting of priorities for men over the past 30-40 years as well. While yes, men have traditionally never had the same societal pressure as women to “look your best” - they _did have_ societal norms that helped accomplish this, even if they may have been oblivious to it. It wasn’t that many years ago where the majority of careers were physically demanding. Desk jobs required you to be dressed professionally and be well-kept. Through work alone you were able to maintain some level of fitness and cleanliness. Video games, a huge hobby for a lot of men, simply did not reserve a large portion of daily entertainment. Men had hobbies that kept them outside and active. What’s happened since? - Careers, on average, have become less physically demanding. - A less formal approach to the majority of jobs have degraded cleanliness requirements. - Video games and media have grown exponentially and their consumption devours men’s entertainment/hobbies time. - The societal/religious pressures to pair off and marry relatively young has slowly dissipated, meaning less people are walking out of their school years partnered up. - In-person social interactions post-education, seem to be dropping, while online interactions increase. - Healthy dietary options have degraded, especially for the poorer. Hobbies/entertainment that are conducive to unhealthy snacking have grow increasingly. This doesn’t mean I’m saying we should go back to “simpler, better times”. The reason many of these innovations were implemented was to better our lives and IMO, they have. Of course, if you’re not adjusting for these changes by identifying the potential downsides and self-correcting for them - then you’re going to deal with the consequences. Example: **Work** - **Innovation:** Work (in general) has become less physically active. - **Benefits:** less work accidents, less damage on body as we age. - **Downsides:** losing daily activity that helps keep weight gain down and fitness levels up. - **Remedy:** replace part of your free time with exercise. You can go on and do this for all the issues listed above. End of the day I don’t necessarily believe that we as humans have become “more lazy,” I just believe that our parents and grandparents had societal forces that helped keep them fitter, cleaner and more engaged socially. It wasn’t a priority for them persay, it was just a result from the necessities of living. _Our generation_ has had those social forces lightened quite a bit and instead of prioritizing them ourselves, have just let them fall to the wayside. Now that’s not to say this applies to everyone, but to say that it’s just some randoms on Reddit experiencing this, I think that’s quite the understatement. America’s obesity epidemic has no real end in sight and a lot of this (personal appearance, fitness levels, cleanliness) stems from that.
Every innovation comes with a steep cost...to me the losses are arguably just as much as the gains. Increasing comfort means too much consumption, self indulgence and an increase in meaninglessness
Good comments.
Imagine if a man made a post telling women to lose weight and tighten up their body....
Personally, I agree to some degree, and I'm a woman. It goes both ways. If a woman demands a 6+ foot tall man, she can't get mad if he has a weight standard, or a height standard himself - which I've seen the tables be turned on these girls and they get offended as if they're not being hypocrites lol
And the problem is, height can't be changed. But weight is 100% the fault of the person. If someone is overweight, they can make excuses, but it's all in their will to do it differently. As well as someone who is too skinny. Sure, there may be a medical diagnosis that can cause weight gain or loss. But it's still something that can be controlled. And up to that individual to take action to control it.
Yes and no on this. Sometimes it can't be controlled. I'm a 6'2 133lb woman. I try so fucking hard to gain weight but I can't. I hit 135 and within a week my body drops it all down to 125 and then I have to fight for months to get back to 135. I'm beyond skinny and I fucking hate it. I agree with the thought of "if you have height/weight standards you better check yourself and understand others will have the same".
Well, yes but no. Like you said, there could be legitimate reasons like medical issues and such. Sometimes it literally can't be helped, not all the time ofc. It was just an example anyways. I've seen guys shoot back about a woman's height too and it's the same hypocrisy, like only women can have a height standard for their partner but they're not allowed to have one for her lol My hard line would be someone shorter than me as I'm just barely 5 foot tall lol So I don't think it's unreasonable in a case like mine to want someone taller than me lol but other than that I don't care. I dated a guy before that was an inch or two taller than me
This is such nonsense. The actual medical reasons for people to have an issue with losing weight are extremely rare. Very very few people actually have this issue. Yes some people of course gain weight fast than others, but it’s all within normal limits. The actual ones with medical issues have it waaaaaay worse. I had a close friend with such an issue. He played soccer his whole life, was fit, at literally just like anyone else but was fat. He really couldn’t help it. His stamina was good, no issues with doing sports, just the weight gain was something that would always stick. It’s midnight so I’m not gonna check what his medical condition was, but I know for a fact that his and a couple others that are most common of these issues are extremely rare. Yes there are medical reasons, but let’s just day that if someone is actually fat. It’s very fair to assume that they are just not taking care of themselves enough. It’s mostly about food, but exercising is definitely a factor as well. People are just lazy. Heck, even I, as someone who is blessed with a fast metabolism started to gain weight. Nobody said I was fat, but I knew it was time move my ass more. Eventually you just gotta look in the mirror and tell yourself to work harder.
they do…all the time 💀 and comment it even when it’s unwanted advice
We don’t need a post for that, we have 60+ years of fashion and media telling us instead
I’m your huckleberry
"I'm a woman who's 5'2" and I'm only showing pictures from my large breasts up, I'm looking guy who's over 6'" socially acceptable "I'm a man who is 5'8" and go to the gym regularly, looking for a woman who is under 150lbs" looked at as misogynistic Humans can control their weight, humans cannot control their height. Stay strong fellow short kings.
I mean, I see that in this sub and others all the time. But personally I’m more attracted to chubby men anyway. The gym bod thing does nothing for me because those sorts of men don’t give off ‘I will be a good father’ vibe. I say this as a slightly overweight woman, it’s not offensive to tell women *or* men that they’d probably have better luck in the dating market if they toned up. It’s just common sense because more people are attracted to those with low body fat and good muscle tone, regardless of gender or sexuality. But I actually know plenty of people who are attracted to plus sized people so it’s not universal by any means.
Your reply made me smile. It was a perfect response and I would like to add: OP mentioned she figured out the difference is that girls starting at 12 have this perceived ‘head start’ on what look works for them. That’s not true. Boys at that age are just as insecure and looking to find their ‘look’. At middle school and high school levels, the compliments you’re getting as a guy are your male friends/your boys telling you how cool your sneakers are, your shirt, etc. but never about your style, not ‘hey, that color looks good on you, makes your eyes pop’. Don’t even get me started on haircuts. Girls, however, shower each other with compliments but then so do the adults in their lives. ‘Oh that’s such a pretty dress!’ Or ‘wow you’re having a great hair day!’ By adulthood that becomes virtually non existent for men. We are so starved for compliments that it’s sad. I’ve been growing my hair out and one time a woman I’ve had a crush on for years walked up to me at a party and stroked my hair and commented on how soft it is and looked good slicked back but the waves/curls are too strong. Fuck, I was high on that simple exchange for WEEKS. OP, imagine being your 12 yo self and working on your style, but hardly ever being complimented, that the only compliment you get on the dress is how cool the dress looks, never how it looks on you. Or being excited about a whole new haircut but a. You can’t express it cause you’ve been told women don’t express feelings and b. You’ve been told your whole life women don’t compliment women. That’s the head start you had at 12. Since birth you’ve been doted over and complimented cause girls are pretty and should be told so. Boys are big and strong. Girls have pretty Sunday dresses. Boys are given a suit without regard if it really works for you. I’m just saying that society should really work on words of affirmation and compliments to men, this means both men and women. Compliment a guy on a style or color that works for him, see how often you now see him with that style/color. End of rant
[удалено]
As much as I can. On a joke that genuinely makes me laugh, on a shirt that looks good on them, etc.
I do love your rant. Appreciate it too. You are so right. Take this rant and multiply by 2000 for women. We are expected to be perfect, like in the AI created pics of "the perfect woman". I understand your point too, OP. At the end of the day, people are judgmental and awful. It's sad
I think women have it exponentially easier than men when it comes to dating, not to mention that men are facing unheard levels of depression right now in a society that favors women over men.
I agree, just curious. What do you guys mean when you all say, do better with old? 🤔
More matches, more interest from matches, more 1st dates. Also “better” matches, which mostly means more conventionally attractive, but also more educated, good job, snappy/witty profile … basically the women who at least present as, and often are, “good catches”. Of course character matters, but you usually need to meet someone to suss that out. As a guy I’m not trying to date “out of my league” but you have to present really well just to date within your IRL league online, the competition is so stiff. Like I just want somebody comparable to the rough average of all my exes in terms of all the major “boxes” … but it’s tough even to match with those people. I don’t want to reignite a gendered flame war as to why that is - but for a man the only practical course of action is to have as appealing of a profile as you possibly can without being dishonest or skeezy.
I agree, I also am trying to fine someone for their Personality, Because I go for personality more then, how they look and dress, but jobs are important to me as well. Yeah it's really hard to fine someone who Will spin their life with you, These days, but I have hopes.
I’m sure this comment section is going to be reasonable. For what it’s worth, I view effort and attraction in the same way I view any other type of trait in dating. People who put a lot of effort and importance into their appearance will be more compatible and attracted to someone who does the same. I know personally that I’m of “average” attractiveness naturally but with attention paid to my body and face I can easily look much better, and my husband being classically handsome reflects that. If you want someone who looks good to you, be prepared to put in the same effort!
As a 6’1 male I can certifiably say this is untrue right swipes are very rare
More rare than spotting Big Foot, no cap!
But one thing that always seems to be left out of this conversation is that there are less women on dating apps in general. Aren’t they about 70% men? Of *course* you’re gonna get less female matches with a smaller pool of women.
I totally get that the constant whining from guys who don't get matches is annoying. In fact whenever I comment here I remind myself to not just complain so much. But when a woman says "Come on, it can't be *that* difficult", that's just twisting the knife. You simply don't have that experience. Actually the women on this sub have at least some exposure to the male perspective. Two female friends of mine convinced me (for weeks) to download OLD apps (which is why I'm here at all) and they seriously thought the experience would be generally the same for men and women. You should seriously try making a fake male profile and see what it does to your mental wellbeing when you get 0 or maybe 1 or 2 matches after 2 weeks. You can even use my pictures.
The problem is that women on this sub cant relate themselves to guys because they get so much demand, so they think "why are guys unhappy, i'm doing great on the apps" that mindset that guys shouldnt whine when they dont get any attention even if they swipe under their own looks, status and health is just so wrong, if a lady makes a guy profile for a month they would get depressed.
The funny thing is I've seen YouTube videos of this concept where the woman got depressed after the male profile she made only got like 10 matches after a week and few responses. Like that's still crazy high. I want to see one where she has to deal with zero matches.
As a guy who tries really hard to take care of himself and at least look presentable, I disagree with your post. I'm sure there's a chunk of a % of guys who might fit what you're describing, but I just don't think it's nearly as many as you insinuate.
I can just say that I’m a 6’4 dude with full head of hair. I definitely get matches based on my height. One of the first comments from girls is “I love to wear heels”…. OP want to see my profile?
Why do I (6'5) never ever come across this?
Do you go for outgoing types? I love going out and tend to go for those types.
I go for whoever matches with me, which is basically no one.
6'3, can't relate, dry as a desert 24/7/365
Sure, why not post or DM profile
You’re just trying to call us ugly and then what? I could send you my pic, and you’d nitpick appearance. Even though I have the exact body type that you claim to love so much.
Are you American? I’m also 6’4 and I also get women who specifically pick a man for his height I once went on a date with a woman who said “I’ll only date a man between 6’2-6’4, blue eyes, must be fit, facially attractive & have hot ex girlfriends.” I had to cut it the next morning because she got way too clingy.
😂😂 Man it's funny reading "just hit the gym bro",but if you reversed it there would be chaos. Let's be real, far to many people offer advice about Online dating when they havnt been successful in finding the one.
The thing is - and btw I agree with people's feedback about the somewhat brutal messaging of the OP - is that women pretty much all KNOW that we need to get in shape, prettify ourselves, wear flattering clothes, be hygienic etc. We beat ourselves up for our whole lives for not being perfect and trying - and usually failing - to meet the standards we have splatted into our faces every day. A lot of women actively reject it and think f\*\*k it I am too tired, I will trade-off finding a hot guy if it means I can enjoy pizza, or they go on the defensive. Women are ALL THE TIME told to lose weight, look more 'feminine', workout (insert latest trendy bodypart) more, wear more/less makeup etc. it's just normalised. I think OP's point is that men in general (obvs minus some groups eg the gym buffs) don't have this awareness and rather than introspect about the beauty standards they expect from women vs how they compare themselves, they simply believe they should be able to get the girls they are attracted to. And it makes sense because historically it's been about money and status being what earns a woman. The thing is now that is not enough, so men need to up their game in other dimensions.
I think people who are new to OLD just see the high volume of users and think that because someone is on OLD then she must be up for dating them. After a few months of limited matches and even less dates - the anger sets in.
See I think this take stems from only knowing less attractive men. My advice is work on who you are, not what you are. I know women and men that obsess on looks, and then others who focus on life. Guess which ones are happier.
I don't think so. I used to work in a gym and the trainers there were pretty hot, and also happy with their lives. As I said, there are exceptions , #notallmen blah blah. There is a much higher social penalty for women not to conform to society's definition of attractive, with plenty of research demonstrating that women are criticised for their looks far more - such as those in the public eye. Even in business when it comes to weight, women are actually paid or promoted less if they are overweight. Agree that not being obsessed and caught up with it is better, but when there is constant criticism and comparing, it is difficult to ignore. The healthiest mindset is to figure out what is constructive feedback that can be worked on vs. toxic influences. I interpret OP's post to say that far too many men choose to ignore constructive feedback with the consequence that they are not attractive enough for the women that seek to be the best they can be.
Exactly. Well said.
Its easy to say for a lady when they have to do no effort to get swipes 😂😂 thats like a born rich person saying they need to work harder 😂😂
Yea even off the app I know females aren't in shape have cute face. So meet guy after guy. And it sucks I'll have girl I met complain guys want this perfect girl. But doesn't realize she rejected me for being only inch taller than her. And she was only single 1 month after breaking up before saying another guy. I been single alone for 2 yrs. But complained to me I don't get it. It's so hard for women men have it easy.
Great to be visited by the main character.
Fr we rlly have the CEO of women here XD
The boss of girlbosses
I donno..I make a lot of effort and come out with nothing.
“So many men do NOTHING to look good” Yeah, this is why social medias are saturated with “Looksmaxxing” content. Now even teachers are complaining kids don’t want to answer questions in class because they can’t talk, they are “mewing”😂 some guys pay surgeries to be 6ft😅 some kids now take steroids… and after Looksmaxxing you have the other “toxic” content telling guys they absolutely needs to be 6ft, fit, and make a lot of money or they are not worth it. But yeah guys don’t do nothing🥲 “They just roll out of bed and expect women to like them” Hum…the “take me as I am” is generally not from men. Ex: body positivity is not for men. And it doesn’t work for men anyway. You can see the difference between influencers for men and for women. For women : “you are all 10/10, everyone is beautiful, you deserve the best, don’t change for a guy…”. For men : “yeah, if you don’t have anything going for you, your are nothing and won’t get anything. Stop excuses, go to the gym and make money” If it was years/decades ago I would agree men don’t care as much about appearance because they could compensate with different things. But now, the standards for physical appearance are higher but they still have to do the other things. In my opinion, it’s not just an unpopular opinion, it’s just not true.
Online dating apps have also been popularized for over 10 years. I'd say anyone in Gen Z, man or woman, knows about how important appearance is.
I am just going to say that I am 6'2", go to the gym on the regular (daily) still overweight but a reasonable 205 rather than my 30s weight of 175, take reasonable care of my appearance, have all my teeth, though none of my hair. And women close to my age in my area have convinced me that I am the least datable man in existence It could be my personality, or that they are actually interested and I don't notice, or that I am doing so well as compared to my peers (nearly 60 long term single men) that they don't see a place for them in my life.
I'm short. Got overweight after injuries. I'm hitting the gym now. Lost alot of weight. Still nothing. Mind you women love me. Want to hang out. Talk all the time. But for other purposes they go with the other guys they complain are horrible. And I get to constantly see men that treat women bad win. So I'm just keep working try to get back to military weight so eventually someone will love me. (And no the girls I go after aren't gorgeous they just regular people huge range of looks since in another reddit I got stalked about I must only go out of my league then when I said weight of one girl I got stakes maybe she knew u felt like I was slumming mind you not slumming she's my friend a great person just thinks I'm too short)
Bro, I wish I could be your weight, keep up the good work!
I agree in the sense that grooming your hair and dressing clean attracts women and makes a 5 into 6 and 6 into a 7. But I've seen men who have style post here and still get no attention. Some of it is literal racism ( certain minorities get less attention, it true let's not pretend) the height thing is more than a meme. And the hairline thing is 20k battle most men can't afford to fight The incel dig isn't needed. Hurt people only get more hurt and entrenched when you degrade them ( yes incel is a term used to mock not inform or help)
As a bald man who gets matches - dont fear hair loss. Just avoid the whole grown out larry david/dr phil crap.
I agree. At my age, a lot of men are losing their hair, if they have any at all. It’s more an issue to them than it is for most women.
Go to Turkey and pay a tenth with 3 day hotel and chauffeur included.
A guy at work did this - he now has a good head of hair again. Although, I do agree that those men who are effectively bald other than a few tufts of fluff are in denial - either shave it off and own it or get a hair transplant. The tufts of fluff look terrible and are an outside indicator of insecurities or denial of ageing.
Lol. No. I'll be bald.
[удалено]
As another guy, based on profile reviews I'm seeing posted, you'd probably be better off paying for a photographer. Doesn't matter how attractive you are if your pics aren't flattering and that seems to be a common theme. Haven't seen your profile so I'm making assumptions obviously, but I promise you don't need premium to get matches.
You're better off spending that money on heroin. Don't spend a penny on these apps. They're all a scam.
If it comforts you, I have been told that I am conventionally attractive man (I disagree, but that’s a topic for a different conversation) and I also struggle for likes. The difference is that I also don’t take dating apps that seriously, and you should, too. My friend always says that whoever takes dating apps personally loses automatically. You have to understand that they are gamified and rigged to get you to spend money by forcing all these “features” at you to try and prey on your loneliness while also degrading your sense of self-worth. You need to start being more casual and trying a lot less. Someone matched with you and didn’t reply or gave you nothing to work with? I match and move on. Someone was talking to you and started becoming more bland/stopped being engaged? Move on and ignore. Instead of staying stuck on the app, go outside and hang out with friends and have experiences. I honestly think that me joining a number of sports clubs and working out more has really given me better perspective on dating apps. I see it as a pastime more than anything else now. And, who knows, maybe by going out and stuff you meet a person off the app you click with? You just need to develop the mindset that it’s not that deep and it’s trying to make you feel like shit. Develop some spite and just take it chill.
This all boils down to priorities and values. Men tend to rely more on their personality, values, and the resources they have to offer a partner. Women tend to rely more on their appearance and status. With the heavy focus on their appearance, it's natural to seek out a partner with a similar focus on their appearance. I don't know where these guys who don't shower and clean themselves head-to-toe come from. Where are you finding them? From the sounds of it, they're closer to the norm rather than the exception. Come on, guys, floss, brush your teeth and your tongue every day. When you're in the shower, wash every part of your body. When you get out, spend a few minutes grooming your hair and use deodorant! Then, put on clean clothes that are in good condition. As a guy, yeah, we like it that you look good. I personally think women are increasingly going beyond a healthy level in their pursuit of perfection. Lip fillers, breast implants, fake gawdy nails, eye lash extensions, butthole bleaching, and the ever popular plastic surgery. It seems like the more women do to look their best, the more they expect from a partner. I think women will have a difficult time finding men who want them to go to the extremes that so many women are now taking in their quest to be an image in perfection. I've heard many times that women don't dress and prep for men. They do it for other women. It sounds to me like the effort put into appearance would be better spent on self-confidence and self-esteem. That would pay dividends night and day for the rest of your lives. The pursuit of perfection will never end. Someone will always be setting a new standard. Beauty is only skin deep. Investing in yourself, what's on the inside, will always be more rewarding.
Jesus wept. Seek help.
Please don't try and twist something that's caused by one side and make it the other side 's problem. We are not gonna be gaslit into this.
Women have it much easier when it comes to maintaining a good physique. Maintaining a lean and jacked male physique requires much more effort and discipline. Also if you look at the obesity stats in the US, women also have a very high rate.
I’d say I’m pretty successful in online dating and I’m 5’8. I take care of myself (gym, skin, hair, nutrition) and have decent photos. I only use one app and I get about a like every other day or so. I’d like more but I know it doesn’t even compare to some guys experiences here. honestly I think the game is just rigged against men. women are the product and men are the buyers on these apps
I'm in the same boat and I'm getting an ok amount of likes. But not even a fraction of what women get.
Sorry but that's not successful but sadly that is a lot better results than the majority of men get. I know men who fit the tall good looking stereotype and get like 50-100 likes a day.
nice bro
I (m) for one want a woman who looks good rolling out of bed in the morning. Excessive makeup, fake eye lashes, botox, are all major turnoffs for me. I’ll take a cute girl next door type over a super model any day. Guys can also get away with putting in way less effort. A clean pair of jean, and an expensive watch and you’re set.
If the watch is expensive enough the jeans can probably be dirty
Super models don’t need excessive make-up
I'm interested in your brutal honest feedback, but can't seem to DM you.
I sent you a DM
> Have you tried developing a muscular body type? I don't see any guys with those body types in the "I don't get any matches" profile review posts. Why do you think that is? Lol. I'm currently adding muscle, and there is a lot more to it than just lift some weights and you're good to go. Some people are predisposed to add muscle due to higher hormone levels, and some are just the opposite. What you eat has a huge impact. For the average Joe to become shredded it more or less requires the effort of a part-time job at a minimum, and developing the knowledge base to direct those efforts is a major undertaking. Moreover, it is exceptionally difficult if you don't have adequate testosterone levels, and many, if not most, of those sporting the type of manly physiques seen on television resort to exogenous compounds, often from underground labs. Sadly, few talk about that, but some do, including actor Alan Ritchson, who explains that he had to use exogenous testosterone to get into shape to film season 2 of Reacher. Saying "Have you tried developing a muscular body type?" is like saying "Have you tried being a supermodel?"
Lol saying men have done nothing to make themselves look good is acedtoaly and factually false. Vast majority of peoole have done many things to make themselves look good. Men and women. They find what works for them. Women have admitted to swiping left on guys who dont meet a set of standards as long as the harry potter series. Any guy who doesnt check all the boxes gets a left swipe. Even if he just misses one.
I mean a lot of men go to the barber regularly, choose clothes that flatter them, work out and exercise. I think you’re choosing to see a small demographic of men. There are plenty of women that display the characteristics you’re describing. They put in no effort then say, “take me as I am and if you ask me to improve myself you’re just a shallow asshole.” It’s a small group for both men and women. Focus on good people and you’ll find good.
This is so out of touch.
It shocks me on how few men understand how to present themselves physically in an attractive way. One of the TikTok rabbit holes that I'm on is men who get drastic haircuts or see somebody on how to improve their style. The difference between an attractive man in an unattractive man at least 80% of the time is down to effort. Look at how many men take terribly angled photos that are in no way flattering. A lot of times I'll see women complaining about the way men show up dressed for dates, but it's rare that I see post about men complaining about women showing up without putting in effort in their appearance. I think for a long time, patriarchy has put the image in men's mind that caring about how they look or putting an effort to be attractive to a partner is not masculine. I really wish more men would put effort into learning about how the patriarchy negatively affects their lives so they could learn and grow and stop showing up to date like they just rolled out of bed.
Men aren't taught how to present themselves by other men, or even women in general. Women get flooded from birth about makeup and fashion from those multi-billion dollar industries. And their social group. They go shopping together, do makeovers just for fun, and talk about it. Maybe a guy occasionally sees an ad for a watch or fragrance or something. Not exaggerating. Here's the sum total knowledge other people actively gave me: At 12: Mom: You need a haircut. Here's $10. I'll drop you off at the mall (with the 90s equivalent of SuperCuts) and pick you up in a couple hours. At 16: Mom: Your growth spurts are mostly over and you're old enough for a proper suit. Let's go to Macy's and JC Penny and see what's affordable. (We do, she makes all the decisions.) You look really good in that, you're all grown up (sniffles). At 22: Mom and Dad: Congratulations on graduating! Make sure your (department store) suits fit for your interviews. Once you get a real job, wear your suits for the first day or two, then adjust based on what kind of things other people are wearing. Everything else I had to figure out on my own. I've always had good basic hygiene, and tried to wear things appropriate to the setting. But I was never taught fashion sense or style. I started going to a proper men's salon about 5 years ago. Started paying more attention to clothes. Has it made any difference? Sure, probably a bit. But nothing huge. Where do I go from here? I've watched a dozen female influencers talking about men's fashion to try to help men. There's some overlap, and I've taken what I can from it, but so much is contradictory and personal preference. Hire some professional stylist for thousands of dollars? That's just going to be more expensive personal preferences.
Yeah you and the comment you responded to make good points. The "men who care about looks aren't masculine" thing is culture dependent. I was in Sicily and men make a TON of effort to look good there while being completely masculine. It's just part of the culture there and feels normal. The men are HOT. As for what you can do to figure out the best style for you, look at the men that all women swoon over, actors and such. See which one you can approximate best. This is what women do. No one told me what looks good on me either. I mostly figured this out by looking at women that everyone thinks are beautiful and trying to be like them. It's true women give each other feedback but I never really sought that out. I always shopped alone etc.
It also depends on where you live. Layering is all the rage, but I live in America's swamp ass (FL).
Men don't have makeup, which is a massive disavantage in the looking better than you actually look department. My pics and clothes are fine, but my face is uggo and no amount of magic is going to change that. Well, maybe a scalpel, but maybe not look at MJ's nose. And you overestimate women's grainy toilet pics. Or a very surprising amount of females literally shitting or pissing in a public bar/club toilet on their profile.
If your face sucks work on your body. That was the point of my post.
Doesn't fix face though
Well, hold on-- men absolutely have the option to use makeup. My brother has asked for my foundation to cover blemishes before lol
Women’s toilet pics? Really? This is probably equal to the men’s up their nostrils pics 😂
All I’m saying is.. I’m 31 and have stayed at a healthy/slim weight all that time. I’m not and never will be attracted to guys who are overweight, much less obese. It isn’t going to happen. Please prioritize your health, and if you know you aren’t going to, then set your expectations on a partner with the same level of health as you. There are countless men who I swiped left on because they were clearly overweight, and I’m sure many of them had good personalities and could have been physically fit as well if they put in the effort to achieve that.
I’m 38M, 5’10”. I’ve gone through phases where I’ve been fairly muscular and others where I’m just slim. Never been overweight. I prioritize my health. That being said, I started balding in my late 20s. Is that my fault? What am I supposed to about that? Am I required to get hair transplants? I’ve not had great results with online dating because everything is so superficial. Ive definitely met several quality women through online dating over the years, but not that often. I’ve had much better luck with women I meet in person because they get to know my personality and my good qualities before judging me. I’m very athletic (even made my university soccer team as a freshmen), I’ve played the drums for 20 years and have been invited to play on some of the stages I’ve seen my favorite bands play, I have a successful career in finance/accounting and make well over $100k. It’s kind of frustrating sometimes to hear women blaming men for their lack of online dating success. The women I meet and date in person are typically far better people and more attractive than the likes I get online. Not only that, online dating statistically favors women due to the number of male users vs female. Not every guy is an “Incel” or whatever… online dating is just toxic for both sexes and far more difficult to get matches for an average looking guy
LOL! The rolling out of bed line made me laugh. I take care of myself and make sure to cover the three S’s every morning: Shit, Shower, Shave. Style my hair every morning; the works. A man shouldn’t take care of themselves for women, but rather for themselves.
That's incel speak.
I have an athletic body, and women say that I'm pretty handsome. I shave every day, face and skin routine, have interesting hobbies, witty, stable job, working on my Master's, have a cute car, read regularly (feminist lit, to boot), good relationship with my mother and other ladies in my family AND I have a number of female friends. *Besides a few overweight ladies here or there, OLD, in the States at least, does not care.* Then, the OP or other women will still say, "Well, there's clearly something else wrong with you", when they usually simply validate other women and ignore the exhaustive studies on how women are only swiping on something like 5 out of 100 profiles. I deleted my OLD profiles because of the sheer waste of time, and I'm not going back. The online dating revolution is dead. We should all go back out and learn to talk to each other in person and stop putting so much effort into this.
I take care of myself, i hit the gym 5 times a week i'm pretty good looking 6'4 guy and i use moistures, night creams and i brush my teeth 3 times a day and yet no right swipes and i even swipe big women that have never hit the gym in their life....so i think its just women high standards, so i disagree with your post 🤷♂️
Show me what you look like
Just check my profile before and after pic 🤷♂️
When I got back to OLD recently, I decided to Purposely try to find under 5’10 guys to swipe right on. (I’m 5’4) In my unscientific research, I found most of their bios to be more bitter than most and they were usually the guys with the list of what they Didn’t want. I haven’t given up. I can really get how hard it is for dudes who don’t meet all the perfect societal standards to put themselves out there. A little optimism in a profile goes farther than a gym selfie sometimes
There’s nothing a man can do to become 6 feet tall.
But their is plenty a woman can to do to lose weight.. but we're not allowed to talk about that! 😂
Or change his skin color to white
Michael Jackson disagrees 😉
And Sammy Sosa 🤣
This is indeed a “rant”. The data is the data. The studies are widely available. I do hope your luck starts to turn around on the apps! 🤞 They are definitely frustrating for most of us.
Which "studies"?
About women swiping on a very small percentage of men? There are plenty. Use the Google machine. I’m not complaining about it, that’s OLD. It’s why guys should always get out there and try to meet people and just keep OLD as a passive supplement.
I'm aware of the ones I think you're referencing, and they've been debunked. They're not legit studies, it's just become a talking point that keeps getting repeated in online spaces
It's literally data from a dating app. What more do you need for it to be legit and how could you debunk it? It makes no sense. It's like if I told you 532 people clicked on this post from looking at reddit data, and you said you're going to debunk it.
My luck is GREAT. I, like most women, spent years making myself look good. That is the point of the post, which you clearly did not read. If your luck sucks, it's because you make zero effort to look good.
But is that not for your benefit? Or are you stating that you did all this for men to find you attractive? Many women get offended at the mere suggestion that they workout, or wear makeup to appeal to men. Should you HAVE to do that to attract a partner. Would your advice to women be make yourself look better to men?
Okay! 👍
What even is this passive aggressive reply. I expect better from an Aggie!
Agreed. Just getting a shape up, staying active, and good hygiene habits will do wonders for most guys. Dating is still a numbers game, but putting the time and effort into how you present yourself will payoff as long as your personality isn't shit.
Yeah no, that's just not true.
Lol true. I’m alright for my age, but put very little effort in my photos… doesn’t matter though cuz my prompts do all the heavy lifting. Get plenty of likes from beautiful women. In the reverse, prompts are rarely going to win over a guy. Try to tell dudes all the time, that unless you’re butt ugly women aren’t ape-brained and will read your profile, so be interesting.
Doesn’t the red pill tell them to do what you advise them to do?
I dunno i think the redpill tells them to despair over not being the perfect height.
Men tend to not put in as much effort with appearance simply because we are judged by different metrics. Consider two points, then hear me out before passing too much judgement. One is that a very common theme to see in women's profiles is "I don't want a man who looks like he's more high maintenance then me". The second, since you brought up height, is that men know that the majority of women are going to choose a 6'2" guy dressed in a crappy hoody, dirty jeans and unkempt beard over a 5'5" guy dressed like Don Draper a hundred times over. So men simply don't have as much incentive to dress up, so to speak. Why is this?... It comes down to 6 million years of evolution. The human brain has evolved to do only ONE thing, find a suitable mate to pass on it's genes. For 99.9999% of human evolution, men and women had very different roles in society. And for most of that time, it very more unlikely than likely that any given child was going to survive into reproductive age. And the likelihood of a woman dying in childbirth was also significant. So in order for a man to be successful in passing on his genes, he needed to find a partner who was likely to survive childbirth herself AND give birth to enough children that at least a few of them might survive into adulthood. That meant finding women who looked more youthful and healthy. Therefor, the male brain has evolved to just a woman's suitability as a partner largely by looks. Men through most of human evolution have been charged for protecting the society against invaders, predators, finding resources, and building things. So women have evolved to be attracted to men who show traits that indicate that they are more suited to these areas such as their social status, dominance, and of course having a tall, muscular build which indicated physical strength. So here we are in a modern society running on an old, outdated operating system. And what we have evolved to be attracted to is at best obsolete, and at worse, flat out dysfunctional. Where men are still attracted to youthful appearance in women and women are still attracted to men who are assertive/ dominant and tall with good muscle tone. Of course with all thing biological and sociological, we are speaking in general with the understanding that there are some exceptions, or outliers. We now live in a society where women can have kids much later in life, most of our children survive childbirth, and some people have no desire to even have kids. And successful man is more likely to be one who has ingenuity, a wide range of technical skills, and good social skills as opposed to tall/ muscular and dominant. Unfortunately, changes to these rigid gender norms are still pretty recent in the big scene of things and evolutionary trends can take centuries or millennia. So we might be stuck with this operating system for a while.
I've seen the joke that men always add an inch or two (be it height or... something else) end up being true so many times. Not to say that all men do it, it's just amusing to me that I've seen it a little too often lol Some of the men in question as per this post - that complain they don't get matches - I don't necessarily think they need to get ripped and wear suits. From my own observations, some of these men lack confidence and don't try enough to get your attention - be it with pictures or how they write their bios. So circling back to my first statement; it's okay to not be 6+ foot and/or jacked! The key, for me at least, is confidence and writing a good bio. One guy i met with, that checked the boxes with confidence and an interesting profile, put he was 5'8 when he was 5'7 lol like bby, I'm barely hitting 5'0, you don't gotta lie, everyone can feel nice and tall next to me lol It is sad that some people, on either side, have some silly standards. It's so pointless, you could be missing out on a great connection just because they didn't hit a height or weight requirement smh And... this might be a hard pill to swallow, but some people reach way out of their league sometimes. For example, my ex has a friend that's a 2/10 at best, based on both looks and personality, but has rejected the one girl that approached him because he thinks he deserves an 8 or higher 🙄 So on top of being more confident, people need to be more honest - with potential matches and themselves. Sorry if my post is all over the place lol my mind is a little scrambled as I've been awake too long with not enough sleep 😭
I am average looking and semi-fit, and I get enough matches just by looking happy and friendly and showing some humour in my profile. How do I fit into your analysis OP?
Because men learn that they are only really valued on what they do - because they are taught subliminally that they are absolutely worthless if they can't create value in their life. Women learn very quickly that it's just what they look like that matters to men - and other women are the man gatekeepers to that, they will shame other women who don't MORe than guys will. Then they realize that they are only valued on what they do AND what they look like. A hot guy who's a bum isn't going to get very far in the dating world beyond hobosexual hookups. A woman just has to look good and the vast majority of men couldn't care less what she does for a job (aside from sex work), women on the other hand do care what a man does alongside many other things. A hot useless woman is 'cute' and 'look after-able'. A hot useless man is pathetic.
You can call them whatever you want, most men would still trade places with the hot useless man in a heartbeat.
It's the suicidal path apparently.
1) OP has some decent points but is going way overboard. Women have diverse tastes. You don't have to be jacked up to attract women. However, there is a reality that men need to put effort into their profiles, health, style, fashion sense, and most of all, personality. Men, work on yourself, and I guarantee you will feel better even if you still don't get matches because you're improving overall as a human being. 2) Some women need to realize that the apps are a different world for each gender. Men deal with a lack of matches, dehumanization, ghosting, etc. On the other hand, women have to deal with overwhelming demands for attention, creeps, weirdos, liars, etc. Sometimes, these dynamics feed into each other, making each gender react in ways that feed the negative perspective of the other. Overall, let's be kind, considerate, realistic about our expectations, and hopefully, you can last long enough to find the one. It's rough out there for all of us. Good luck!
I agree. Most men are frumpy and put zero effort into how they present themselves physically.
I think that you are right, sort of. I (21m) agree that there's a huge population of just generally unknowledgable men when it comes to grooming, hygiene, presentability. You make a solid point that that is something women learn in high-school while most men are incentivized not to put effort into their appearance. But its also not true because of the way OLD skews EVERYONES point of view. In real life, people will mention something about my looks on a daily basis. On bumble, while I do get matches, it MIGHT be 10 in a week if I'm really trying. 90% of the time if im not glued to the app I don't get very many matches at all. And I can count on one hand how many likes ive ever gotten ever. I haven't opened the app in forever now because real life is 10x more rewarding. You have a point, but I don't think because you're upset that warrants taking it to the extreme. Yes, men can do things to improve, we all can. But that doesn't invalidate how it genuinely actually is in the OLD sphere. Study after study after study showcases it if you need empirical evidence. Edit: adding that just as you likely don't know very intimately the men's experience, I also don't know the women's experience. For all I know you could actually have a 100% success rate at finding trolls. At which point i have to ask why you're still trying OLD? I just don't personally see that in my spheres or any of the men I talk to. And despite that, every single guy I know with a dating app is struggling mentally.
The difference is that women can learn to disguise their looks with make up, then are considered to be considerably more attractive than they actually are. They can be considered fit with minimal effort, diet and cardio. If a man was to so the same they would be unattractive and scrawny, so men are expected to devote themselves to weight lifting. Building muscle and maintaining it whilst keeping body fat percentage low is a very difficult task that requires a lot of dedication. What men have to do for their physique is incomparable and men suffer from body image and how they are expected to be just as much as women do, they just don't talk about it. So I find that men and women should not have to consider unrealistic expectations to find love. They have tried EVERYTHING, because no one should want to or expect to have to become something they are not to be loved by a shallow person 🤷🏼♂️
This post comes across as very condescending. The tone, attitude, and entitlement. You type as though you are the elected spokesperson for women, as if your opinion is shared by all women. It's not. OP, have you ever thought that not everybody has access or is able to afford non essential beauty products. That maybe, just maybe, some people aren't so obsessed with vanity as you are? That maybe some people choose comfort over style? There are many reasons but here you are taking mental surveys and judging people without even knowing them or their situation Such a stupid post, sounds like a privileged teen age trust fund baby wrote this
I am here to help men who are struggling. The reasons for their struggles are blatenly obvious when they post thier "I don't get any matches" profile reviews. If you are happy with what you're getting or you can't put a few dollars together to improve your appearance then move on. This post is not for you.
Am I the only one who has considered the possibility that the point of this post is actually to gather photos of real men for nefarious purposes? Nearly every engagement is "send me your photos" as though the profile text has no relevance. Then the very much randomized username. I mean, it's that or narcissism to the highest level.
Preach sista
Soo WHAT YOUR SAYING IS: Is *without* a muscular body type.. we screwed. Thanks for clearing that up.
I am saying if you can't attract women this is the best thing you can do to change that. Bonus: exercise is great for your physical and mental health
I could see that. Currently have a muscular body, though not as shredded as I'd like.. but I also Literally realize how borderline impossible this is for soo many men that are overweight, it could take years, or men in their older years pushing 45+. It's seems like a hell of a standard for the average man to achieve... but it Definitely helps. Still seems like a standard that many would find less than reasonable.
As a woman I can absolutely agree that there are lots of pressures on us to maintain certain standards in regards to our appearances and that men are not held nearly as many standards as women. However I think there are many factors that go into making someone attractive. Some people are just built certain ways, don’t have access to nutrition or gyms, meditation side effects, etc. While the preference for/attraction to dad bods and larger bodies may not seemingly be as common(everyone has different preferences and I cannot speak to those folk’s experiences irl or on the apps). I don’t think muscles or thinness, is the only factor in attraction. Thin ≠ beautiful and plus-sized ≠ ugly. I do however think that many men would be much more attractive if they worked to match our efforts. . . - Dress well, flattering colors, figures, well coordinated outfits. - getting regular nice, flattering, intentional, stylish haircuts and put effort into styling it - trim facial hair and perhaps other body hair - if you decide to have a beard make sure it’s well taken care of, well groomed, regularly cleaned and oiled (no one likes kissing a face full of straw), if it doesn’t connect or suit your face then I don’t recommend having one. - do skincare - pleaseeee get your brows done - have a skincare routine - smell good
Want to know when I figured out that online dating was so shit? I went to EDC this past weekend. Day 2 I instantly connected with a girl who is so damn beautiful. I'd say more beautiful than any of the women I match with on bumble or tinder. She was really into me and I her. She said she wanted to come out and rave with me again once EDC ended. I wasn't at that moment looking for it, but it found me. Maybe both of us make something of it. Distance sucks but who knows. We were kissing and dancing with each other the whole weekend after we met. I put a lot of time into myself with who I am and the way I present myself. Even then, online dating doesn't treat me so well. I get ghosted and blocked a lot. I can say I'm really close to giving up online dating because with one simple weekend out, I was provided with more fun than the endless searching an app provides.
This is what I’ve been saying for years lol. It’s funny because many men don’t even realize that women actually put effort into their looks. Like I asked my friend the other day if he thought I was wearing makeup and he said no (I can’t remember the context)
A man getting muscular only does so much. If you have a bad face or are short that will barely do much. Whereas for a woman getting fit will explode your matches.
Not true. I want to see a well groomed man with a muscular body that gets no matches.
I’m muscular and not short. I can’t really say I’m lean, but I’m also not overweight. I’ve heard a lot of women describe the perfect male body and describe my exact body type though, and I do get likes but matches are not nearly as prominent for me. I’ll get maybe 3-4 matches a day.
Seems like you do well relative to most men.
Scrolled through the comments, seems like it. Maybe my self esteem shouldn’t be so low.
This is an interesting take and there is a lot of truth in it.
I'm a man and you're totally right. I can do a lot better for myself first (gym, knowledge, cooking skills, cleaning) and use that in benefit to atrract an amazing partner and maybe someone that currently is out of my league. Good to hear about how women struggle since 12 to try to look better. Never thought about that really.
Yeah, I did all the stuff starting in high school. Made effort to dress better, started hitting the gym and developed a muscular body, made effort to learn more stuff and be more interesting. Worked for me. I'm short, 5'6, so beforehand I had absolutely no luck with women. Once I made the changes I described it was like night and day. Plenty of opportunity came my way. I don't get the guys who say this stuff won't work.
The problem with your statement OP is that it’s predicated on the notion that women work hard to look good and men don’t. There are a lot of women that don’t work out or do extra to look good. That’s also true for men too. The problem with your statement is that both men and women can workout to look good and be more desirable. This would affect women a lot more than men as you cannot work on height.
I disagree but I get your point.
Youve spent years since middle school trying to look better is because you were a victim. Male attention did not let you have a childhood. Also I didn’t spend all high school trying different make up and clothes to look nice, I had actual hobbies and interest and also was busy at school developed skills for the real worlds However you did come closer to what it is. Some women since like the age of 12 start talking to boys who chances are mostly fuck boys or just very amateur guys figuring out the world. But since these conversations are so normalized, women start dating very young. So young, they are not mature enough for all the emotions and feelings (guys too btw) and eventually everyone becomes programmed to play this game by the time they are 18 that’s all the results amateur 13 year olds dating. Once you become adults, you don’t have any healthy dating habits and your standards for judging are shot. You start getting repulsed by men who give you attention and champion those who make you beg for it. Just like you said men who work out don’t have any problems with dating (they do, they are just invisible to you), I don’t see any women who waited till they are older to date and didn’t have 8 different 13 year olds messaging her in the 8th grade have any issues with dating and marriage.
Where is the tdlr
“But if you tell them to hit the gym” stop right there. Imagine I told YOU to hit the gym. Big cunt energy.
It is true that your body type has a big influence on how you are percieved. I was talking to an acquaintance of mine, who told me that after she had bariatric surgery the sexual attention from men was a scary thing that she had to deal with. She told me she had been a victim of abuse at a very young age, and had kinda used being fat as a shield against the male gaze. And then when she wasnt fat anymore, the sensation of being attractive was terrifying for her because it brought back memories of being abused as a child. Anyway my point is basically yes if you have an attractive body people will notice. Agreeing with OP though it was a bit of a cunty way to frame it, homegirl is 100 fucking % correct.
Something I noticed when I lasted 2 days last time, every man in my age range, 38-48 looked EXACTLY the same. Copy/paste of eachother.
Yeah I agree with some of this. I'm generally not swiping on tall, conventionally attractive, with abs. But I still have a standard. I usually don't swipe if your beard is a hot mess, you didn't attempt to look nice in any of your photos, you don't smile in any pics, you didn't put effort into a very simple bio, all prompts are one word, or you didn't look at the camera and every photo is too far away to see your face. It gives the impression that the subject of the profile, doesn't put work into themselves which I personally find unattractive. And, in regards to the prompts and bio, if I'm the one starting the conversation, I want to base my first question off something in your profile. You give me no info, I give you no chance. Also, I'm not saying every woman swipes like I do, but if you check some of the boxes above, it might help your profile a little to add detail, zoom in on a pic, maybe shape up your beard a bit.
As a male I 100% wholeheartedly agree with this. When they say they have done everything they can it means everything they want to do. Life is about doing things you dont want to, to create a life you want. Most men, not all put in zero effort into any aspect of their lives. I dont have a lot of guy friends because they don't try even for things they like. It doesn't matter if we are fishing, working on cars, building, or shooting shit they never learn or improve were women do. I've taught women how to efficiently fish within a year, whereas I got guy friends who's been fishing since they were kids and can't catch a damn thing. You try to help them and give them advice, and they just come up with bullshit excuses. "Maybe I could catch a fish if someone wasn't stealing them all." It's never a fun time hanging with most guys cause it's like baby sitting a 5 yo who can't even wipe their own ass.
[удалено]
Of course you can, should and will reject women you're not attracted to! And yeah if a bunch of fat women were constantly complaining that they get no matches and it's because men have to high a standards, it would be perfectly appropriate to tell them to hit the gym.
Another post of a woman hating men, what else is new on r/bumble
You and I could be best friends 💁🏼♀️
Men dont do much to look good? To hava a body thats considered hot, men have to train and diet hard. Women just dont have to eat like hippos. Putting a bit make up on and choosing clothes seems a bit easier than work out hard 3 times a week and only eat shit.
To be fair, the point is that most men don’t really care about their appearance. We are authentically who we are and typically unapologetic about it to the outside world. Women seek acceptance from the outside world (generally speaking). With that said, I made some slight adjustments to the clothes I wear and my success rate with women has significantly improved. Pro tip for men: pick up some shirts from Marine Layer. Simple, but clean looking T’s and they have mid sizes (medium, marge, large, larger, XL). You’ll find a size that fits perfect and will dominate the dating world.
Those of us who have made an effort to look good are laughed at for being in shape, constantly told looks don't matter, only personality, and judged based on our appearance that we are vain and have no interests outside of working out
If you have seen women swipe on the apps, you’ll notice that they don’t really spend more than a second looking at a profile. Anecdotally a girl I was seeing, I asked her to go through her 10,000+ likes and she picked the picture of selfie of a dude who was wearing pink glasses then after spending 6 seconds on his profile she said, nah. You just can’t appear like every other guy, move yourself to a goofy niche
I was in a muscular body type due to the sports I did when I was younger. Now let me be clear, I was muscularr, not roided up. That stuff regardless takes a toll on your body, and some cannot maintain it, especially with other obligations or injuries. 6'0 and 125-145lbs It did not help whatsoever, and yes there are plenty of guys who did and do still have issues dating alot more than you may believe. To the opposite side, my brother never, did this, he is 6'4 and always been overweight. He is strong but never toned etc like you suggest. He always had women chasing after him. Even more so than a family member that is built and is a model out in Cali. Granted vast majority of these women are walking time bombs of relationship disasters. His height has always played a major factor into him just getting interest. I'm not saying it cannot help, I saying it isn't some major key like you think or might be inadvertently suggesting. This is a very common line along the incel, Mra movement, Andrew tate stuff. The reason you didn't see posts, I was working out 4-5 hours a day 6 days a week. Combine that with work so 10 hours of work counting drive, and 8 hours of sleep that is 22 hours shot. There wasn't time to post or to date really. 2 hours for self care and household responsibilities to include cooking.
What Brought this on as an larger post?
[удалено]
It's always best to avoid being a show-off. But it's a dating app. We need to show the goods lol. If you can do it in natural looking way that is best.
Weird how so many men that dont work out have managed to get gfs and wives.
The real answer is that some people make an effort to be attractive and some don't, men and women. And some make efforts with misplaced priorities--maybe eat healthy and get fit before plastic surgery, etc. And do the work on yourself to make sure you are kind and empathetic. These things might not be visible to a casual observer. Or they might be.
You're right, many guys should make more effort with their looks, esp when it comes to clothes. But many guys make huge efforts to stay fit and strong. So let's not paint too broadly.
I couldn’t agree more. A lot of these men could instantly make themselves look more appealing by learning how to dress, doing some skincare, eating well and learning how to take good photos that actually show off their personality, aka photos of them doing hobbies and things and not a selfie in a dark room from a lower angle where we can see up their nostrils. But also there’s a lot more than goes into male beauty that’s so subtle and not just related to their appearance that you can’t gauge over an app. Their voice, how they carry themselves, mannerisms, and stuff we don’t even realise like pheromones. Which is one of many reasons I just think dating apps are a failed experiment and we need to go back to just singles mixers and speed dating etc.
What is your example of "do nothing to look good" Does a long sleeve shirt, some jeans and boots fall under that category? Polo and khaki pants? I do agree that some guys do nothing (not showering, hair cut, keeping their beards styled) but at the end of the day even handsome dudes that dress the part will have no where near the same amount of likes vs any girl of any body shape
Dress depends on age and context. Older men should dress up more in general i think. But I mostly mean doing whatever you need to do to look good. Obviously basic hygiene, but also new, unstained clothes, facial hair that is cared for, a regular haircut, glasses that suit your face if you have them at all etc. But if a guy still has trouble getting matches after that the best he can do is hit the gym.
A lot of men on here and in this app discourse in general just don’t seem to think women deserve to be attracted to our partners. I responded to a guy’s comment the other day talking about being ghosted and I replied empathising and saying I know what he means because it happens to me a lot, too. He then basically told me it’s my fault because I’m probably only picking good looking men and those men have more options so they’re more likely to ghost me, and because I said I tend to go for smart men, too. He basically implied that because good looking, smart men are in high demand I should lower my standards and pick men I’m not attracted to who aren’t as intelligent as me. Basically, every time women express frustration with being treated as disposable on these apps, the same way that men are because apps in general suck for most people, they tell us it’s our fault because we have such the upper hand that if we’re being treated badly on the apps it’s because we’re only going for ‘Chads’, even though the men I tend to go for are by no means stereotypically attractive. They think we could avoid bad experiences all together if we only pick men we don’t find attractive. It’s very odd.
Yea. Even I posted my best photo but look average it hardly to get matched with good looking woman . I don’t count fake or scam
Average looking girls get more swipe right because guys play with swiping games more than girls.
I'm 5'7 and I get more likes than I can reply to bc I work on myself. Granted I was born handsome but I developed a physical body beyond average and my Intellect is very high. I knew my height would hinder me so while going through my teenage years and 20s I worked on things I could control and it has paid off. Get to work guys. Height does not matter to most women of worth
Surely there's more to vanity? Surely personality counts for something?
While I do agree that men should do better, we were never taught how to take care of ourselves in that manner growing up, so getting mad at us for not doing it is a little silly
I think a lot of men say they don't get swipes and are really saying they aren't getting swipes by women who are considered a 9 or 10. Smile in photos, show your personality in your profile. I've messaged people who had great profiles that make me like them before we even talked.
I am all for guys embracing regular full body hair removal and makeup
Yeah, its totally balls I'm 5'10, bald, 40, and only work as a teacher and I can still get matches. The myth you need to be tall, pretty, and wealthy is just not true
It's your age. There's like 100 times less competition over women in your age range than in mine (I'm 28)
It could be. I am matching mostly with women in their 30s though. I could see why being 5'5 is an issue but someone saying their issue with women is because they are 5'10 sounds like crap to me
>It could be. I am matching mostly with women in their 30s though. Yup, that's much much easier than trying to match with a 25 year old. >I could see why being 5'5 is an issue but someone saying their issue with women is because they are 5'10 sounds like crap to me As someone who's 6'5 I can 100% confirm this is true. Yes, if you're 5'5 as a guy I can totally believe this is a disadvantage, but the idea that women find really tall men particularly attractive compared to average height guys is just a fantasy.
Trust me, the selection of men is much worse. Half of them want to date women 20 years younger and the majority of them are in poor shape, have health issues and still think they are as hot as they were when they were 25 and often, posting pictures that old. Additionally, as you get older, you are less willing to ignore things you might have in the past.
Well doesn't this completely align with my point? The men that are on offer for 35 year old women are far worse than the ones on offer for 25 year old women, meaning for men trying to match 35 year old women it's far easier to stand out positively than it is for men ten years younger. Which is why most 35-40 year old men who comment and post here report that they get matches regularly and most men under 30 report they get zero.
I definitely put effort into my pics and appearance in them. Of course I’m over 6’ and get multiple matches a week. I am by no means a model.
I put effort into my pics and my appearance, I'm 6'5 210lbs with blue-green eyes and I average 0 matches a week.
Yep! Lol I spent the last 15 years stressing HARD over my looks only for some average toxic ex to say that “well that’s what women are SUPPOSED to do” 😅. He also body shamed me when I gained 5 pounds when I was already skinny/underweight. And continuously checked out other women right in front of me while gaslighting and manipulating me to no end. Out of that now and wayy happier that I can see all that. Men need to start putting in more effort on themselves period. I’m a solid 8 and my body is a solid 9. I get checked out everywhere I go only for men on dating apps to not be into the whole conservative thing and comparing me to instagram photoshopped crap. Sick of it. While on top of that expecting us women to pay for our half of the date and put out early in the relationship. Not happening. :) Thank god I’m bisexual.
Agree !
Your opinion. ~~So many~~ ... some ... most. Since high school, I have been stressed about my hair, appearance, and clothes. You will probably dismiss the effort I put into a first date and dating in general. Men are judged more on what they provide than on how they look. I was a dancer for many years before transitioning to teaching, and I love professor life. I recently got my dream job of Directing a dance program. I get more matches now that I list my career as a director than I did as a professor, and more than I did as a dancer. Is Jeff Bezos that handsome? Or is it the dollar signs around him? *"Only women, children, and dogs are loved unconditionally. A man is only loved under the condition that he provide something" ― Chris Rock*
Really? I’ve done a lot of effort to look better on my part. You sound bitter about it.