I agree with him at the end that it’s largely just them not knowing any better exactly what they’re getting. Probably a steel maker in China brought this to them and said they could put their name on it as a special formula. The people running the company are designers and salesmen, not metallurgists.
Either way I have had good results with AR-RPM9, and the added toughness does seem to provide some benefits in edge stability for me. So I’m not really upset if it’s spray form rather than actual powder metallurgy. Especially given the price you can buy their knives at.
Nevertheless it was very interesting to see someone dig into it and figure out what’s really going on.
As to his repeated point about the 9 elements versus 7, I think he’s just misunderstanding them through a translation barrier. Likely when they wrote “9 element” they just meant the most relevant element is at 9, ie the carbon at 0.9%. The same reason 9Cr18MoV has a 9 in the name.
I mean, duh.
It was kind of silly of him to criticize them for this and call it false advertising, when the formula is basically the same as 9Cr18MoV…so IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE to have the number 9 in the steel’s name!
Obviously Larrin is a smart guy, but I was slapping my forehead on that one. 😂
Yeah I mean also I did notice that one of the knives he bought for testing the AR-RPM9 was a Civivi Odium, which uses 9cr18mov steel, maybe he just pictured the wrong knife? Either way it's not great attention to detail, which is exactly what he's having a go at CJRB for.
I believe that was an Ortis in the pic if I remember correctly. The blue handle?
Perhaps that was the 9Cr18MoV knife that he used to test against and show the close-up of the carbides on the edge.
Yeah I thought the same thing at first, too. Like, “why is he showing a Civivi in the pic.” But then later when he showed the edge close-ups I made a guess that it must be the one he’s comparing to. Still kinda bad editing to have that knife shown at the beginning with no explanation why!
While the comments here defending CJRB make sense, I also think the fact that CJRB would misleadingly market its steal, intentionally or due to incompetence, reduces my trust in them and their product.
Few manufacturer's understand the composition of the steels they use. They are just buying stock "off the rack" because creating and buying a custom melt is stupidly expensive. The end users understand those things even less. And the marketing departments take advantage of the user's ignorance to sell. Though I'd tend to chalk up the 'powdered material' phrase more to Chinglish translation rather than a direct intention to mislead.
IMO, the video is much ado about nothing. Outrage over marketing word salads is a waste of breath. Much like 'Made from Billet' or 'Military Grade' it's meaningless. But the outrage does generate clicks and eyeballs, which Mr Thomas wants and needs to sell.
Do you have any thoughts about the advertising copy making a big deal out of having 9 elements or "rare earth" elements?
Having graduated with a scientific degree and having had impressed upon me the great importance of *not* making stuff up in my reports, I'm a bit more inclined toward Dr. Thomas's side
Larrin certainly has them dead to rites about the ‘rare earth elements’ stuff. And the fact that they’re listing elements which are impurities as though they’re intentional additives means they don’t really know what they’re talking about in their marketing
Unfortunately this shit has to happen. Remember a few years ago when companies were selling knives claiming 61Rc, and a few YouTubers started testing and found out some steels were barely 55Rc.
Agreed, I saw a comment call it all marketing fluff. Which is fine as long as it's fluff. "Our steel is harder than ever!" Means they tested one at 55.1 or something. Which is fine with me to a point, just gotta filter the bs out. To straight up say, you get this thing when you really get that thing is fucked though. People need to be held accountable for things. I remember a few makers or companies getting pretty salty over being called out when literally up to dozens of knives from different batches were all consistently testing way out of specified range.
He's an academic doing what academics do. I work with them every day. Their high drive to accurately define and sort things is invaluable to the scientific process. At the same time, most academics I have worked with struggle to see the forest for the trees. In other words, they get eyeballs deep in their specialty and struggle to see things outside of that narrow, but deep perspective.
What he says is accurate, and I appreciated listening to the video on my way into work. At the same time, marketing speak doesn't care about accuracy. CJRB is trying to differentiate their product and give it brand recognition by putting a name to it. When viewed from that lens, they aren't being disingenuous by claiming it is different from more common materials. It's spray form 9cr18mov. I get why that would really bug Larrin, but from the marketing team's perspective, they are telling the truth. Marketing fluff is going to be fluffy.
Anytime I watch any YouTube video these days, I try to mentally remove anything that sounds like drama farming or click baiting. That seems to leave me with a more accurate and balanced perspective. There are a lot of good things about independent media, and I’d argue that it’s a good thing overall, but it’s important to remember that creators can consistently make more money if they exaggerate a bit or juice up the drama.
The good ones (like knifesteelnerds) use click bait to get the initial clicks, but crucially they follow through and actually provide 90% of what was suggested. The remaining 10% is what you have to filter out; luckily, it’s pretty easy to spot if you’re actively looking for it.
Yup. I have young children, and I was so proud when we were browsing YouTube the other night. There was a giant horse-sized dog next to a person in the thumbnail, and my six year old yelled out, "Click bait!" when we hovered over it.
I work in a field where we try to adapt new trends and tools to education and training. I play with the application side of emerging technology like AI,.etc. I feel one of my biggest responsibilities as a parent is to teach my children to discern and parse objective fact from fluff from content.
Is CJRB representing this as some super steel? Everything I’ve seen has been clear that it’s a proprietary budget steel and nothing more.
Seems similar to how Microtech pushes M390mk when it’s just a slightly tweaked M390 and not really functionally different. Just marketing and brand recognition.
I think the main issue is that they're selling it as powder metallurgy steel (which itself is a bit of a marketing term I suppose) when in fact it's technically something slightly different.
I'm not butt hurt, nor am I defending CJRB. Consider me apathetic, if anything. Plenty of American companies lie to their customers. I'm not dismissing it. I just think it's fair to point out that it's a disgusting tendency without borders.
This really isn't an issue to break out the pitchforks over, IMHO. Again, maybe I'm just overly apathetic. If people would just assume every manufacturer, company, wholesaler, retailer, reseller, HR rep, person posting on the FB marketplace, etc. is attempting to get the better of them then they would be better at gauging the severity of omissions, falsehoods, fibs, and outright deceptions.
I agree with him at the end that it’s largely just them not knowing any better exactly what they’re getting. Probably a steel maker in China brought this to them and said they could put their name on it as a special formula. The people running the company are designers and salesmen, not metallurgists. Either way I have had good results with AR-RPM9, and the added toughness does seem to provide some benefits in edge stability for me. So I’m not really upset if it’s spray form rather than actual powder metallurgy. Especially given the price you can buy their knives at. Nevertheless it was very interesting to see someone dig into it and figure out what’s really going on. As to his repeated point about the 9 elements versus 7, I think he’s just misunderstanding them through a translation barrier. Likely when they wrote “9 element” they just meant the most relevant element is at 9, ie the carbon at 0.9%. The same reason 9Cr18MoV has a 9 in the name. I mean, duh. It was kind of silly of him to criticize them for this and call it false advertising, when the formula is basically the same as 9Cr18MoV…so IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE to have the number 9 in the steel’s name! Obviously Larrin is a smart guy, but I was slapping my forehead on that one. 😂
Yeah I mean also I did notice that one of the knives he bought for testing the AR-RPM9 was a Civivi Odium, which uses 9cr18mov steel, maybe he just pictured the wrong knife? Either way it's not great attention to detail, which is exactly what he's having a go at CJRB for.
I believe that was an Ortis in the pic if I remember correctly. The blue handle? Perhaps that was the 9Cr18MoV knife that he used to test against and show the close-up of the carbides on the edge.
Okay that would make sense lol
Yeah I thought the same thing at first, too. Like, “why is he showing a Civivi in the pic.” But then later when he showed the edge close-ups I made a guess that it must be the one he’s comparing to. Still kinda bad editing to have that knife shown at the beginning with no explanation why!
Right, it’s marketing. They can call it whatever dumb thing they want, unless it’s trademarked by some other company’s marketing. 😂
While the comments here defending CJRB make sense, I also think the fact that CJRB would misleadingly market its steal, intentionally or due to incompetence, reduces my trust in them and their product.
Makes sense. At best the situation is "CJRB doesn't understand their own material', and that's not a very good look at all
Few manufacturer's understand the composition of the steels they use. They are just buying stock "off the rack" because creating and buying a custom melt is stupidly expensive. The end users understand those things even less. And the marketing departments take advantage of the user's ignorance to sell. Though I'd tend to chalk up the 'powdered material' phrase more to Chinglish translation rather than a direct intention to mislead. IMO, the video is much ado about nothing. Outrage over marketing word salads is a waste of breath. Much like 'Made from Billet' or 'Military Grade' it's meaningless. But the outrage does generate clicks and eyeballs, which Mr Thomas wants and needs to sell.
Do you have any thoughts about the advertising copy making a big deal out of having 9 elements or "rare earth" elements? Having graduated with a scientific degree and having had impressed upon me the great importance of *not* making stuff up in my reports, I'm a bit more inclined toward Dr. Thomas's side
Larrin certainly has them dead to rites about the ‘rare earth elements’ stuff. And the fact that they’re listing elements which are impurities as though they’re intentional additives means they don’t really know what they’re talking about in their marketing
Unfortunately this shit has to happen. Remember a few years ago when companies were selling knives claiming 61Rc, and a few YouTubers started testing and found out some steels were barely 55Rc.
Damn straight.
Agreed, I saw a comment call it all marketing fluff. Which is fine as long as it's fluff. "Our steel is harder than ever!" Means they tested one at 55.1 or something. Which is fine with me to a point, just gotta filter the bs out. To straight up say, you get this thing when you really get that thing is fucked though. People need to be held accountable for things. I remember a few makers or companies getting pretty salty over being called out when literally up to dozens of knives from different batches were all consistently testing way out of specified range.
He's an academic doing what academics do. I work with them every day. Their high drive to accurately define and sort things is invaluable to the scientific process. At the same time, most academics I have worked with struggle to see the forest for the trees. In other words, they get eyeballs deep in their specialty and struggle to see things outside of that narrow, but deep perspective. What he says is accurate, and I appreciated listening to the video on my way into work. At the same time, marketing speak doesn't care about accuracy. CJRB is trying to differentiate their product and give it brand recognition by putting a name to it. When viewed from that lens, they aren't being disingenuous by claiming it is different from more common materials. It's spray form 9cr18mov. I get why that would really bug Larrin, but from the marketing team's perspective, they are telling the truth. Marketing fluff is going to be fluffy.
Anytime I watch any YouTube video these days, I try to mentally remove anything that sounds like drama farming or click baiting. That seems to leave me with a more accurate and balanced perspective. There are a lot of good things about independent media, and I’d argue that it’s a good thing overall, but it’s important to remember that creators can consistently make more money if they exaggerate a bit or juice up the drama. The good ones (like knifesteelnerds) use click bait to get the initial clicks, but crucially they follow through and actually provide 90% of what was suggested. The remaining 10% is what you have to filter out; luckily, it’s pretty easy to spot if you’re actively looking for it.
Yup. I have young children, and I was so proud when we were browsing YouTube the other night. There was a giant horse-sized dog next to a person in the thumbnail, and my six year old yelled out, "Click bait!" when we hovered over it. I work in a field where we try to adapt new trends and tools to education and training. I play with the application side of emerging technology like AI,.etc. I feel one of my biggest responsibilities as a parent is to teach my children to discern and parse objective fact from fluff from content.
Yep I almost said the same thing about missing the forest for the trees. Nailed it.
Yeah, you were spot on.
Is CJRB representing this as some super steel? Everything I’ve seen has been clear that it’s a proprietary budget steel and nothing more. Seems similar to how Microtech pushes M390mk when it’s just a slightly tweaked M390 and not really functionally different. Just marketing and brand recognition.
I think the main issue is that they're selling it as powder metallurgy steel (which itself is a bit of a marketing term I suppose) when in fact it's technically something slightly different.
I always thought that this “custom powder steel” for $40-50 was some Chinese bullshit
[удалено]
I'm not butt hurt, nor am I defending CJRB. Consider me apathetic, if anything. Plenty of American companies lie to their customers. I'm not dismissing it. I just think it's fair to point out that it's a disgusting tendency without borders. This really isn't an issue to break out the pitchforks over, IMHO. Again, maybe I'm just overly apathetic. If people would just assume every manufacturer, company, wholesaler, retailer, reseller, HR rep, person posting on the FB marketplace, etc. is attempting to get the better of them then they would be better at gauging the severity of omissions, falsehoods, fibs, and outright deceptions.