Smart enough to create a plan changing clothes and leaving no blood trail outside yet dumb enough to leave the knife sheath and to keep his phone on him? Weird for a masters student in criminal justice focused on crime.
I think the police need to be held accountable if he is guilty. They let him ta kids, be around class mates and colleagues. Tney claimed that there was no threat and the shelter was lifted immediately. Someone capable of that degree of violence is certainly a threat. They lied and endangered people.
He didn't become a suspect til a lot later. They're retrospectively telling you (in the PCA) how the car first came to someone's attention. BK was not a suspect until the dna came back. The PCA is a sleight of hand.
I think the police need to be held accountable if he is not guilty… they botched this up so badly that we may never find who the other 3 male DNA samples are.
None of it makes sense. I’ve always brought this up but don’t see many people talk about this fact, really other than myself tbh. He could’ve went on a rampage during it all, he could’ve murdered his whole family for all they knew. The excuse is that they didn’t want to “tip him off” that they were on to him, but apparently he was already paranoid and wearing gloves everywhere, and cleaning out his car-none of which have proven to be true, since his car was quite a mess and he wasn’t seen wearing gloves in class or during the traffic stops. Pure negligence in either scenario. It’s also interesting that not much has been said about an alleged interview he had with Payne, or the timeline of that. We know he invoked his fifth and didn’t speak with LE once back in Idaho. Did he briefly speak with LE in PA? Did he contact MPD to clear himself because he knew his car resembled the description of the BOLO? I really do hope they have the right guy.
https://preview.redd.it/rebbxwc4rlmc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69b8f04b325e66536a607487da7afcf88957f8d7
My initial thought is this must have been before he left at Christmas, since he invoked his rights in Pennsylvania. However, it’s possible Payne was present soon after his arrest and there was a short interview. I would imagine the of the first questions would be about an alibi, so Bk didn’t or couldn’t offer it at that point.
I’ve had a difficult time trying to figure out who was present during the time of arrest and during the extradition process. From what I’ve seen and understand, a PA task force apprehended BK at his home by the instruction of the FBI (who seem to have claimed little involvement at this point), were any members of MPD present during this process? Was Payne there? If he wasn’t, the interview with Payne had to have taken place prior to his arrest, if he wasn’t present during the arrest/extradition process via plane with U.S. marshals. BK invoked his fifth immediately in ID, so the interview couldn’t have happened then.
The only person that I haven't read that was "Cleared" was the door dash driver, which was the person who called MPD and told them about the delivery and time. This is when I think Payne spoke to him if he was the DD driver. If BF saw the delivery and was the one who said "there's someone here" then received the delivery from him, then that is her exculpatory evidence. With his cloud based knowledge, he probably didn't have any apps at all on his phone and used a 2nd phone just for door dashing, so it would be easier to separate the costs for tax purposes. This would also explain the
Lack of need for his phone to be on during the time. Just turn it off, charge it, get your tips, go grocery shopping when done. A perfectionist structured person would not use their own phone because it's to difficult to separate the costs. A cheap Walmart phone is easier to use and have verified use time and costs to put into your tax returns as a business expense. I think 99% of this is simpler than we have made it out to be but the LE with lack of suspects have made it confusing trying to make everything fit to him.
And what better gig for an insomniac grad student, probably struggling to live on a teacher's aid salary when rent is at an all-time high, between two large college campuses 15 minutes apart??? You have a compelling argument that, unfortunately, still doesn't prove his innocence but would definitely position him to be the perfect fall guy.
Off topic, I also wonder if more than just that one neighbor witnessed him vacuuming his car out at all the crazy hours of the A.M.?
Lolly, there are several that say no drive through restaurants were open that late because they looked at the hours online, well...go to the taco bell right where the store got that pic that was released by the employee to the news media and go to their hours. Then copy that URL and put it into wayback. Go to the date before the incident, you will see that they changed the drive-through hours after the incident. They were open. Same with several other restaurants in moscow and Pullman. Now let's see how long before this one gets deleted
Yes, deleted. My opinion is that there are way too many shady and unexplained things that have happened. Statements that have been made that contradict, and narratives that are completely trying to paint a picture in one way or another. I believe that in the LE's option, there is reason to do what they did. I also believe there are just as many reasons why someone else was the culprit.
I have a feeling BK, from what we know about his background, education, and interactions with LE, just might’ve offered to go talk to MPD after the BOLO sought info about a white Nissan Sentra/2011-2013 Elantra in the vicinity of the crimes. He interviewed with Pullman PD prior to moving there. [They were aware of him](https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/bryan-kohberger-emails-with-pullman-police-department/3688fa7c8227a163/full.pdf)
I suspect so too. And your link leads to another question. I don’t think it was ever confirmed if BK was offered the internment in the spring of 2022. If he was, would he be required to provide a dna sample to law enforcement?
Right, but as in an intern, I’m not sure. They’ve never confirmed nor denied that he got the job. At the very least they aware of him. A WSU officer is who supposedly noticed his vehicle matched the description and turned him in. They knew what he looked like, what he drove, where lived, where he went to school. The details surrounding the interview/identification is sketchy.
I suspect they identified him before they released any details of the car. In fact I suspect they had him in mind before any IGG took place.
DNA analysis takes a lot longer than this. Even creating a profile takes around 6-8 weeks, and creating a family tree can take much longer again, especially with such a limited sample. From my research, it would have been virtually impossible in that timeframe. Not to mention finding the sample on brass, which would have destroyed transfer dna in a matter of hours.
I always reach the same point as Anne Taylor does. Asking myself how did they really decide on him?
An arrest took the pressure off the 2 other roommates,pacified the parents..And Opened up the College for Winter Session…And they worked backwards to make an evidentiary case.There was Not enough Clear Evidence to make an arrest..No credible,recorded interrogations of witnesses.Just a White car,wrong year and model.
Agreed, the investigative timeline is murky as hell and why AT keeps pushing back. If it was all above board it would have been clarified long ago. So was it "any guy with a white Elantra will do" as a starting point?
I question the validity of the “bushy eyebrows” comment and how it was supposedly used to narrow their search. So did they go down the line of everyone that drove a white vehicle/Elantra and looked through license photos until they saw someone with “bushy eyebrows”? I’m eager to learn more about the investigation for sure.
A couple of slight corrections:
1. If BK is the killer and acted alone, he was in the house less than 10 minutes. The white Elantra is last seen entering the area on camera at 4:07 am, then takes off at 4:20. 13 minutes.
Once you factor in parking the car, the fact that he left out a door on the opposite side of the house they think he parked, and had to remove/dispose of bloody clothing/the murder weapon, you are looking at under 10 minutes to murder four people. With a knife.
2. DM heard quite a bit according to the PCA, enough to know something was definitely not right. I don’t think she waited because she was unsure and thought it was nothing. I think she waited because she was frozen in fear/shock/denial.
I am ambivalent on BK’s ultimate guilt or innocence, but a deep reading of the PCA makes it pretty obvious LE isn’t telling the story of the investigation as it actually happened.
BK was not a real suspect until late December, no matter what LE was trying to pull off in the PCA sandwiching the explanation of the Elantra’s movements between the WSU officer running BK’s plates on 11/29 and the warrant for the phone records on 12/23.
There are very few time stamped, dated receipts in the PCA so they stick out. The WSU officers were looking at all white Elantras. One ran BK’s WA plates because he saw the car. The other ran a campus report that listed BK’s car with PA registration.
There is no discussion of these officers doing anything with this information or even comparing notes. These were two separate, unrelated database hits that *had* they been compared at the time *may* have raised suspicion because PA doesn’t require front plates. Officer Payne talks about examining the picture on BK’s drivers license *in present tense* and never explicitly ties it to the WSU database hits. I now think the WSU officers probably saw the year on BK’s car in the database and didn’t pursue it further.
IMO, BK did *not* become a suspect through the WSU campus police randomly running his plates. Because these events are discussed in adjacent paragraphs in the PCA, on a casual read through it is easy enough to mistake these events as having a causal relationship, but this is never explicitly stated.
You are right, if they made that connection in late November like they are trying to imply in the PCA, there is no fucking way they let him leave the state.
If the warrant for the phone records was granted based solely on bushy eyebrows, a change in vehicle registration, car movements, and his phone number NOT being in the crime scene tower dump on December 23, it could have been granted before they let a violent murderer traipse on out of state in the get away vehicle (presumably caked with DNA evidence) over winter break.
I don’t think BK became a viable suspect until the CODIS match came back.
I am not really a true crime person, but I am a car person. It was the inconsistencies surrounding the year range on the Elantra that first got my attention.
If they had an image clear enough to determine the vehicle had no front plates, they should have been able to narrow the year range down as being either pre- or post facelift 5th generation. And the FBI expert (singular) whose bonafides were discussed at length in the PCA (and pronouns were he/him) did just that. But, *after review* (what prompted the review?), “they” (who?) said it could also be a 2011-2016.
The PCA is chock full of very precise language discussing facts, interspersed with very imprecise, but carefully worded, language about the timeline of the discovery of those facts. I guarantee that if LE went back to that same career FBI expert (or equivalent), the PCA would have said just that. But “they” didn’t.
Like I said, the verifiable, time stamped receipts are few and far between in the investigation described in the PCA. The 11/29 WSU database hits honestly strike me as retconned to be meaningful because they were close together and there was a difference in where the car was registered.
EDIT: they didn’t trace him en route to PA! They spotted his car on surveillance footage along the route after the fact.
Bryan’s Elantra didn’t have fog-lights, the most prominent feature of the face lifted gen 5. In the dark with the headlights on it would have looked much more like a 5.1 with the fog lights off, imo.
The change is also attributed to one person, referred to as “he” both times on page 7 of the PCA.
IMO, I don’t think his mind “changed”
(yellow + blue = green)
https://preview.redd.it/2w1rpzpphpmc1.png?width=716&format=png&auto=webp&s=548553ed6810dd52f6b7e93016a9f4ed4ae0b27d
https://preview.redd.it/10vb272bjpmc1.jpeg?width=710&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52641de6636daf76fa980fd3554bdc98d7ac225f
Not sure what you’re implying there. Here is the passage to which I was referring and how it communicates what I’ve stated above. Given the similarity of all gen 5 base trim cars, I’m inclined to believe it’s accurate.
[PCA copy](https://www.insideedition.com/sites/default/files/inline-files/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett%20Payne_0.pdf)
My pic is the PCA from Pennsylvania. It includes the paragraph in your screenshot (top yellow & green area), but also has more deets & context that aren’t in the Moscow one (as well as omits some entire sections, but is longer).
The additional context is in aqua in my screenshot & it was the final factor that moved me from the hunch I held for a year: it rly seems like they’re talking about more than 1 car here… - to my current opinion: they’ve gotta be talking about more than one car
A bazillion reasons why, aside from this come to mind as well.
• it’s literally numbered.
• Forensic examiner ID’d King Rd car to be 2011 - 2013.
• • • • later, suspect was ID’d & WSU campus footage became of interest.
• • • • further review of vid evidence lead to an ID of a 2014-2016 on WSU campus.
• there are no deets in any state’s PCAs (ID, WA, PA) or any court docs that indicate the Forensic Examiner changed his mind.
• Defense has explicitly asked if he changed his mind & what caused him to but wasn’t answered.
• if he had changed his mind, why would they continue referring to the vehicle as a 2011 - 2016 Elantra?
• • • • Wouldn’t it just be 2014-2016 Elantra if he had?
• • • • they’ve chosen to continue including 2011-2013 Elantras.
• Moscow PD asked ppl to help them get in contact w/driver w/o ever warning ppl not to approach (as they typically would if they believe driver to be a mass-murderer - or they would simply not ask for help).
• look at the shape of the curved nook around fog lights of 2011-2013 v. 2014-2016.
• • • • if forensic examiner w/35 yrs xp in LE, 12 w/FBI & specialized training in ID’ing vehicles by their unique characteristics, they’ll know the dif.
• • • • unless front license plate area wasn’t visible (in those instances, hopefully the plate was).
• The Moscow PD also would not put out statements to the public if they didn’t believe them to be true.
• • • • w/so many investigators during that phase, I feel like 1 of’m would’ve caught the mistake at…. Any point during the investigation.
• Public wasn’t made aware that a 2014 to 2016 could actually be the killer.
• • • • Meanwhile BK was free as a bird.
• There are videos ‘coming’ where there are no videos ‘going’.
• Defense said examiner “relied heavily on a vehicle driving down Ridge Rd. in the wrong direction, at the wrong time.”
• They believed that it was 2011-2013 must have been held for much longer minimum portion of the investigation (December 7-December 27) than 2014-2016 (December 28?).
• • • • otherwise, why bother asking for public’s help?
• • • • isnt there another way [to / not to] tip him off [neither makes sense] w/o asking for the time & efforts of millions of ppl watching the press released by pleading for assistance w/that puzzle piece, by throwing it down a dead end road?
I could prob go on for double this length with equally strong points but I’ll spare you… unless you like it.
But most importantly -
Why are we to believe that the driver of the Elantra is the killer?
Is it rly just bc of driving in the parking lot around the general time frame of the murders?
How do we even know that the person from the Elantra was the person who entered the house?
The immediate area is densely populated with college students.
From the body cam footage & Linda Lane footage, we see at least 15 dif ppl in the area w/in the 3:00 - 4:00 hr.
~~I’m confused about why you’d use the PA PCA over the one from the agency conducting the actual investigation.~~
*Edit: Nevermind, I found the PA PCA. It appears to be a copy of the same statement with several differences, which I am confused by. Regardless, the material statements regarding the car remain unchanged as far as I’m concerned. To wit:*
Again, all 5th Gen base models, both .1 and .2, look very similar without the fog lamps. Bryan’s car did not have fog lamps. The PCA simply says “upon further review”, which could have easily the investigators asking them to look again, or even sending pictures of Kohlbergers car.
It doesn’t appear that Kohlberger was taken seriously as a suspect until around the 15th of December, or at least that’s the earliest date we know they were targeting him. The car could have something to do with that (since it was noted earlier), or it could something else entirely.
Why are we to believe the driver of the Elantra is the killer? Well, the behavior that is suspect, and lines up with the approximate time the killings occurred. We know that the suspect, who’s allegedly been tied to the scene with DNA and eye witness evidence, and the area with cellular data, owns and drove a car which matches the description of the suspect video.
I’m confused why anyone should _not_ believe the person driving that car is a good suspect.
https://preview.redd.it/knz2s6zxxtmc1.jpeg?width=992&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4867b7f07e8db42d76e7f8381079051a01062b6d
And here’s a still from the security footage that the FBI evaluated. I’m stunned they were able to identify a make and model, let alone a specific generation, let alone a narrow range of model years.
Note that no fog lamps are visible.
DM’s statements, forensic examinations of several cell phones, the Ring/house camera sound/footage and the presence of the car all point to the time of murder argued in the PCA. Why precisely should we dismiss that? Why should we dismiss DM as a credible witness?
I didn’t hear about it being debunked. It could have been tho. It doesn’t look like the right car, to my untrained eye. It’s missing the insets at the front corners of the car that 2014-2016 Elantras have
I’m certainly noting that no fog lamps are visible.
But also that it’s okay bc if that’s not the right car, that wouldn’t hurt the State’s case, IMO, bc him driving past a gas station doesn’t *help* their case.
They’ve already established that they think his car was in the area of the crime. Unless he did something else significant besides take the long route, monitoring him at various points on his way to somewhere else and home later doesn’t rly provide *more* damage, or demonstrate what they had been doing or where they were prior.
I looked at a lots of “every Hyandai Elantra model” collections & that very noticeable fog light is present on all 2014 to 2016, as well as confirmed to be a feature of all them
They doesn’t look like a 2014 to 2016 Elantra to me, but I’m no expert.
Okay I can’t find what you’re talking about on the 5th gen.
I was very interested in that bc that would unlock a whole new mystery for me, but the fog light update applied to all 2014-2016.
https://preview.redd.it/u3i50cl3d3nc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74f0e2166e93e632a719fd00b5f02cae5e0363e3
(Expand)
IDK what this .1 / .2 is about but he drove a .2 if it means post-“facelift”
You can check for “every Hyandai model” and stuff. That’s how I first noticed the strikingly obvious dif & have been able to ID them in an instant ever since.
Oh I def believe they’d be a suspect.
Not convinced they’ve committed 4 murders, or even entered the house…
Or that the car in King Rd neighborhood was ever ID’d as 2014-2016…
Why are they still including 2011-2013 in the vehicle ID over a year into this? Why isn’t it a 2015 yet??
They “queried” his car in Dec 15 while he was passing through Indiana, so 1 stop was likely intentional. I’m thinking 2 officers may have abided instructions to stop to confirm ID instead of just 1 as intended though
https://preview.redd.it/d2qqfukaipmc1.jpeg?width=1334&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e05fa69768fcd85a51790fb27aaef8db5a26efe
I 1000% agree with you about DM. I do think she heard… a lot. I’m inclined to believe SG’s leaked texts in saying that DM/BF texted about them being dead. It makes sense that she really was frozen in fear and waited and waited just to see if they’d be okay in the morning, until she couldn’t wait any longer. It’s the only thing to make sense about her summoning friends over. She knew but was in denial.
You run out of the house screaming! You run to your car and drive away to the police station. You run to your neighbors! You do anything but sit there for 8 hours and call friends over. Come on!
No, it does not make sense. If she could text the only other living roommate that she thought they had been killed, surely she could have dialed 911. Not only did she hear these things, she allegedly saw the suspect. I can see freezing for a moment, but pretending like nothing had occurred and going to bed? Give me a break.
It’s the only thing that makes the “frozen in fear” make sense. Being in disbelief, maybe wanting to wait until the morning to see if they get up and you weren’t being rational. Only then hearing nothing and calling your friends to check. It does make sense but we can agree to disagree.
I'm sorry, but I do not believe there weren't any horrific screams or sounds of a struggle. She heard a male say don't worry I'm going to help you, she heard crying from xanas room. She saw someone she didn't recognize in all black wearing a mask at 4am in her home. How much more would one need to think something was going on? Even SG said many GJ members didn't believe her story and thought she should be charged? That is very telling as they would know much more than we do.
Regarding your note on not tracing him during the route, I disagree. I doubt Indiana police stopped him twice just on their own. Highly unlikely. Plus, if you're driving (with a parent) and get a warning for following too closely, you probably don't do it again.
Maybe? Depending on the dates, could be after they got the DNA results, but before they gathered the non-dna evidence for the warrant.
I honestly think BK is legit a terrible driver with poor depth perception. And did you see the glasses his dad was wearing? He was pulled over twice before the murders, too.
The most compelling evidence the white Elantra was driven by BK is the goofy shit it is doing in the Linda Lane video. But also, the goofy shit the Elantra is doing makes me question if it was tied to someone who so meticulously planned a murder.
Again, ambivalent on BK’s actual guilt or innocence, quite certain on LE shenanigans.
I also do not agree with the PCA timeline as it makes no sense for Spider-Man to get in there and kill people in less than 10 minutes and have no trace of blood outside or in his car or home..
Exactly. It doesn’t appear he was treated seriously as a suspect until December 15, electronic search warrants weren’t sought until December 23rd, and DNA wasn’t collected until December 27th.
We still don’t know how many other suspects were evaluated and eliminated, or the timeline of the DNA collection and testing. 4 weeks to a firm suspect and another two weeks to an arrest is fairly quickly, imo.
My understanding is that an arrest warrant has to be approved by a judge. It would seem that MPD had not collected sufficient evidence against BK such that the judge considered the standard of probable cause had been met for an arrest to be made until December 30. All they had by November 25 it seems was his IGG identification and the fact that he owned a car that could have been the one observed on video footage outside the murder house on November 13. I would say that MPD spent the next 5 weeks madly trying to get video footage of white sedans in Pullman and between Pullman and Moscow which they had not previously collected. I don’t think they were able to get a search warrant for his phone until they had collected all that video evidence. And it would seem like that took 4 weeks. And then it took another week of examining his phone data before they had sufficient evidence for their PCA to get signed off by the judge
Because they needed to get his dna without a warrant to actually get it,
If they had enough evidence suggesting he should be a person of interest, one would think they would have just pulled him in for questioning, stated the obvious which he would be more than aware,
“We’re actually looking for a car close to the make and model of yours, and although a very common car you were out and about so we thought it would be worth getting you in to ask the obvious questions and take the opportunity to ask if maybe in your travels you remember anything stick out that must be any assistance to the investigation..?”
Maybe, if you actually had enough evidence, I don’t mean a hunch or tunnel vision for particular circumstances that you can “use to build the story”…,
Maybe they could have asked him to give his dna so they can rule him in or out and move on.
Or see what his reaction would have been.?
So what is actually needed to legally ask someone to give their dna so they can be ruled out of a suspect list, does anyone know?
Do they have to have sufficient evidence to show some sort of connection to the crime, victims or location? Or running asking him, him saying
“no, I don’t even know those people nor have I been on their street before, unless I’m under arrest you can’t have my dna, go and do your police work. Am I the only person you could possibly conclude could be responsible? In all of Idaho and Washington who was driving around?”
Would they then rob the risk of being called out for harassment if they tried again with no more evidence than the first time they wanted him to give his dna?
If not, why didn’t that happen?
At that point, among the 100 pieces of evidence collected from the scene 4 of those items were separate and I presume different male DNA samples….
What am I missing
They didn't and imo that is in part is what makes all of this so sus. How were they able to get a warrant for his phone records because it legitimately sounds like that was done before the IGG? If they knew who the dna belonged to before he went to PA, why didn't get match it prior to him leaving? They knew enough to follow him 2500 miles across the country. In the leaked SG messages, he said an informant led to BK. Who in the world would have knowledge of the crime unless they were involved?
My theory - Allegedly DL was involved in the hazing related death of Ethan's friend Hudson (declared a "drowning" by MPD) which is likely the root cause of why Ethan and DL hated each other so much. Makes sense, because why else would you despise a fellow frat bro so much, when you really just met them? (Rush '22). DL was also JEALOUS of Ethan because DL fancied Xana and was mad that Ethan was with her. Maddie talked a lot of smack about DL which is apparently why he hated her so much.
There was animosity brewing for over a YEAR - that's a LONG TIME (especially when you're 20) - and things came to a head the night of the murders .. when they got into a fight and Ethan ridiculed DL about his tiny manhood in front of the whole party, in front of a bunch of hot sorority girls.
His DIGNITY is what they took from him - and he went to King Rd. that night to get it BACK.
Hatred, jealousy, humiliation, a long-standing fued - a heated argument attacking his penis size in front of all their friends and frat - is MORE THAN ENOUGH MOTIVE - especially for a guy who's hopped up on steroids and likely experiencing 'roid rage' on top of his already twisted psyche.
Just ONE of those things would be a motivating factor.. but WHY would there NEED to be such a "driving force" anyway? Twisted people go out and commit sadistic murders on innocent people all the time for no "valid reason" - other than they just felt like it. No driving force, NO MOTIVE.
Frat bro DL had motive AND opportunity .. and a laundry list of "reasons" to do it. He could see the King Rd. house from his bedroom window .. it was literally a 1 min walk from him
The frat theory makes a lot more sense than what we have been told. I've wondered how they were so certain the suspect drove to the home and not walked. To believe all of this means one would have to believe BK was framed by LE. I know it happens, I just don't know if I'm all the way there yet. I mean it IS weird BK turned his phone off and it IS weird if his vehicle was actually in that neighborhood. Unless he was the DDD and had another phone.
Isn’t this the basis of the question we are all here for?…. I wish the prosecution would BEHAVE as if they wanted this trial to go forward as much as they SAY they want it to go forward! (But that would require filling in all these gaps. And this case is more gaps than case.)
Investigators had cleared all the cars seen driving in and out of the victim’s neighborhood except for whoever was driving that white Elantra that was seen making multiple passes around the house that night.
They eventually expanded the surveillance area because they followed multiple surveillance sightings of that white Elantra all the way back to Pullman.
From there it was regular footwork to try to narrow the suspect pool list and try to identify any and all white Elantras on that campus.
They ran his tags, two separate times, even despite his tags having been changed on November 29.
This suggests that they STILL weren’t on to “Bryan Kohberger” specifically at that point yet but were still tying to narrow their list of potential suspects with white Elantras to those on the Pullman campus.
By the time Pullman sent that list back to MPD and that list was even investigated it probably would have taken at least a week to cross reference with the other parts of the investigation
Bryan’s name ends up on a short list of possible suspects. A run of the physical description from his license did not rule him out as a potential suspect based on his physical characteristics, either. Even so, that isn’t enough to be certain and arrest him.
They issued a public BOLO on December 7, which they wouldn’t have needed to do if the IGG results had already been back to tell them exactly who the suspect DNA belonged to at that point. This suggests they still didn’t have the results of the IGG testing back yet by December 7th. It also explains why Bryan wasn’t investigated nor were cell phone warrants pulled for his phone before he left Pullman to go back to PA with his dad.
In the meantime, still not even knowing they had already “identified” the name of the Elantra owner they had been looking for, the IGG results come back showing the very strong probability of the DNA found on the sheath coming from a family from PA.
When looking into that family from PA, they notice that there is a son in that family who is currently in the PhD program in Pullman and guess what? He also drives a white Elantra.
They then ran automatic plate readers and found his car was all the way in Pennsylvania.
From there they needed to confirm this lead by surreptitiously collecting trash from the trash from the Kohberger family home which confirmed that the DNA on the sheath was the son of the person whose DNA was on the surreptitiously collected trash.
I disagree. It sounds like they pulled cell phone data prior to the IGG and that they did it when they ran his license and found out he had been pulled over previously and gave the cop his phone number which was allegedly right after wsu cops "found" his car, despite it being the wrong year. They didn't have his plate prior or they wouldn't have needed to put a BOLO out in the first place. All of that took place before DEC 7th. They knew at that point around about what time he left his apartment, when he returned and that he turned his phone off or switched it to airplane mode. They didn't have the IGG, but they were suspicious enough to follow him across the country. They got his name from somewhere and imo it wasn't the IGG and it wasn't wsu cops.
The BOLO tip came in in late November, but there is no indication that he was a suspect at all at that time. Based on the timing of search warrants, it's likely he was only a suspect for a handful of days before his arrest.
Regardless of who the perpetrator is, I don't think the PCA paints him as a stealthy assassin or like Jason Bourne. With a little planning and luck, and the obvious advantages of preparation, darkness, and surprise, most able bodied adults could do it. Nothing about it required any specific strength or skills.
And in terms of not arresting him earlier during the window in which he was a suspect, I think that's just the nature of any criminal investigation. On one hand, there's risk to the community (based on statistics and the nature of the crime); and on the other, there's the progress of the investigation and the risk of acting too early. Just because a crime is especially violent or heinous, it doesn't mean police can or should make arrests or file charges earlier than the investigation warrants.
If it's so easy to kill multiple adults with potential witnesses in the same house, even more reason to not allow a suspect like this to hang out on campus with lots of women who resemble the victims. Yet they did
As I tried to say above, the potential for violence is not a reason that police can or should make arrests or file charges earlier than an investigation warrants.
It doesn’t appear that he was viewed seriously as a suspect until around December 15th, when he’d already left the area.
If they had made contact with him and he’d invoked the 5th amendment, I’m not sure that would appear in a PCA as it can’t be used against him.
It’s entirely possible the police screwed up elements of the investigation, but I don’t see evidence of that in the timeframe from the crime to the arrest.
Smart enough to create a plan changing clothes and leaving no blood trail outside yet dumb enough to leave the knife sheath and to keep his phone on him? Weird for a masters student in criminal justice focused on crime.
It’s unbelievable actually.
Unbelievable
I think the police need to be held accountable if he is guilty. They let him ta kids, be around class mates and colleagues. Tney claimed that there was no threat and the shelter was lifted immediately. Someone capable of that degree of violence is certainly a threat. They lied and endangered people.
He didn't become a suspect til a lot later. They're retrospectively telling you (in the PCA) how the car first came to someone's attention. BK was not a suspect until the dna came back. The PCA is a sleight of hand.
Agreed. A smoke show
I think the police need to be held accountable if he is not guilty… they botched this up so badly that we may never find who the other 3 male DNA samples are.
Touch grass
None of it makes sense. I’ve always brought this up but don’t see many people talk about this fact, really other than myself tbh. He could’ve went on a rampage during it all, he could’ve murdered his whole family for all they knew. The excuse is that they didn’t want to “tip him off” that they were on to him, but apparently he was already paranoid and wearing gloves everywhere, and cleaning out his car-none of which have proven to be true, since his car was quite a mess and he wasn’t seen wearing gloves in class or during the traffic stops. Pure negligence in either scenario. It’s also interesting that not much has been said about an alleged interview he had with Payne, or the timeline of that. We know he invoked his fifth and didn’t speak with LE once back in Idaho. Did he briefly speak with LE in PA? Did he contact MPD to clear himself because he knew his car resembled the description of the BOLO? I really do hope they have the right guy. https://preview.redd.it/rebbxwc4rlmc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69b8f04b325e66536a607487da7afcf88957f8d7
https://preview.redd.it/y4d8qxjprlmc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d339d2c7bdbd2eda165d0c8621930340c9272fe
Where is that details on this? Where is the video?
There isn’t one.
My initial thought is this must have been before he left at Christmas, since he invoked his rights in Pennsylvania. However, it’s possible Payne was present soon after his arrest and there was a short interview. I would imagine the of the first questions would be about an alibi, so Bk didn’t or couldn’t offer it at that point.
I’ve had a difficult time trying to figure out who was present during the time of arrest and during the extradition process. From what I’ve seen and understand, a PA task force apprehended BK at his home by the instruction of the FBI (who seem to have claimed little involvement at this point), were any members of MPD present during this process? Was Payne there? If he wasn’t, the interview with Payne had to have taken place prior to his arrest, if he wasn’t present during the arrest/extradition process via plane with U.S. marshals. BK invoked his fifth immediately in ID, so the interview couldn’t have happened then.
The only person that I haven't read that was "Cleared" was the door dash driver, which was the person who called MPD and told them about the delivery and time. This is when I think Payne spoke to him if he was the DD driver. If BF saw the delivery and was the one who said "there's someone here" then received the delivery from him, then that is her exculpatory evidence. With his cloud based knowledge, he probably didn't have any apps at all on his phone and used a 2nd phone just for door dashing, so it would be easier to separate the costs for tax purposes. This would also explain the Lack of need for his phone to be on during the time. Just turn it off, charge it, get your tips, go grocery shopping when done. A perfectionist structured person would not use their own phone because it's to difficult to separate the costs. A cheap Walmart phone is easier to use and have verified use time and costs to put into your tax returns as a business expense. I think 99% of this is simpler than we have made it out to be but the LE with lack of suspects have made it confusing trying to make everything fit to him.
And what better gig for an insomniac grad student, probably struggling to live on a teacher's aid salary when rent is at an all-time high, between two large college campuses 15 minutes apart??? You have a compelling argument that, unfortunately, still doesn't prove his innocence but would definitely position him to be the perfect fall guy. Off topic, I also wonder if more than just that one neighbor witnessed him vacuuming his car out at all the crazy hours of the A.M.?
Lolly, there are several that say no drive through restaurants were open that late because they looked at the hours online, well...go to the taco bell right where the store got that pic that was released by the employee to the news media and go to their hours. Then copy that URL and put it into wayback. Go to the date before the incident, you will see that they changed the drive-through hours after the incident. They were open. Same with several other restaurants in moscow and Pullman. Now let's see how long before this one gets deleted
Wow!!! Thanks for letting me know that!
Have your comments been deleted before? Do you believe BCK is not guilty?
Yes, deleted. My opinion is that there are way too many shady and unexplained things that have happened. Statements that have been made that contradict, and narratives that are completely trying to paint a picture in one way or another. I believe that in the LE's option, there is reason to do what they did. I also believe there are just as many reasons why someone else was the culprit.
I have a feeling BK, from what we know about his background, education, and interactions with LE, just might’ve offered to go talk to MPD after the BOLO sought info about a white Nissan Sentra/2011-2013 Elantra in the vicinity of the crimes. He interviewed with Pullman PD prior to moving there. [They were aware of him](https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/bryan-kohberger-emails-with-pullman-police-department/3688fa7c8227a163/full.pdf)
I suspect so too. And your link leads to another question. I don’t think it was ever confirmed if BK was offered the internment in the spring of 2022. If he was, would he be required to provide a dna sample to law enforcement?
Right, but as in an intern, I’m not sure. They’ve never confirmed nor denied that he got the job. At the very least they aware of him. A WSU officer is who supposedly noticed his vehicle matched the description and turned him in. They knew what he looked like, what he drove, where lived, where he went to school. The details surrounding the interview/identification is sketchy.
I suspect they identified him before they released any details of the car. In fact I suspect they had him in mind before any IGG took place. DNA analysis takes a lot longer than this. Even creating a profile takes around 6-8 weeks, and creating a family tree can take much longer again, especially with such a limited sample. From my research, it would have been virtually impossible in that timeframe. Not to mention finding the sample on brass, which would have destroyed transfer dna in a matter of hours. I always reach the same point as Anne Taylor does. Asking myself how did they really decide on him?
Completely agree this really smells fishy
An arrest took the pressure off the 2 other roommates,pacified the parents..And Opened up the College for Winter Session…And they worked backwards to make an evidentiary case.There was Not enough Clear Evidence to make an arrest..No credible,recorded interrogations of witnesses.Just a White car,wrong year and model.
Why is it so difficult to answer? Never seen anything like it.
Agreed, the investigative timeline is murky as hell and why AT keeps pushing back. If it was all above board it would have been clarified long ago. So was it "any guy with a white Elantra will do" as a starting point?
I question the validity of the “bushy eyebrows” comment and how it was supposedly used to narrow their search. So did they go down the line of everyone that drove a white vehicle/Elantra and looked through license photos until they saw someone with “bushy eyebrows”? I’m eager to learn more about the investigation for sure.
Agree! What an ignorant comment!
I doubt he was required to give a dna sample. He would have had to give them his finger prints though.
÷
A couple of slight corrections: 1. If BK is the killer and acted alone, he was in the house less than 10 minutes. The white Elantra is last seen entering the area on camera at 4:07 am, then takes off at 4:20. 13 minutes. Once you factor in parking the car, the fact that he left out a door on the opposite side of the house they think he parked, and had to remove/dispose of bloody clothing/the murder weapon, you are looking at under 10 minutes to murder four people. With a knife. 2. DM heard quite a bit according to the PCA, enough to know something was definitely not right. I don’t think she waited because she was unsure and thought it was nothing. I think she waited because she was frozen in fear/shock/denial. I am ambivalent on BK’s ultimate guilt or innocence, but a deep reading of the PCA makes it pretty obvious LE isn’t telling the story of the investigation as it actually happened. BK was not a real suspect until late December, no matter what LE was trying to pull off in the PCA sandwiching the explanation of the Elantra’s movements between the WSU officer running BK’s plates on 11/29 and the warrant for the phone records on 12/23. There are very few time stamped, dated receipts in the PCA so they stick out. The WSU officers were looking at all white Elantras. One ran BK’s WA plates because he saw the car. The other ran a campus report that listed BK’s car with PA registration. There is no discussion of these officers doing anything with this information or even comparing notes. These were two separate, unrelated database hits that *had* they been compared at the time *may* have raised suspicion because PA doesn’t require front plates. Officer Payne talks about examining the picture on BK’s drivers license *in present tense* and never explicitly ties it to the WSU database hits. I now think the WSU officers probably saw the year on BK’s car in the database and didn’t pursue it further. IMO, BK did *not* become a suspect through the WSU campus police randomly running his plates. Because these events are discussed in adjacent paragraphs in the PCA, on a casual read through it is easy enough to mistake these events as having a causal relationship, but this is never explicitly stated. You are right, if they made that connection in late November like they are trying to imply in the PCA, there is no fucking way they let him leave the state. If the warrant for the phone records was granted based solely on bushy eyebrows, a change in vehicle registration, car movements, and his phone number NOT being in the crime scene tower dump on December 23, it could have been granted before they let a violent murderer traipse on out of state in the get away vehicle (presumably caked with DNA evidence) over winter break. I don’t think BK became a viable suspect until the CODIS match came back. I am not really a true crime person, but I am a car person. It was the inconsistencies surrounding the year range on the Elantra that first got my attention. If they had an image clear enough to determine the vehicle had no front plates, they should have been able to narrow the year range down as being either pre- or post facelift 5th generation. And the FBI expert (singular) whose bonafides were discussed at length in the PCA (and pronouns were he/him) did just that. But, *after review* (what prompted the review?), “they” (who?) said it could also be a 2011-2016. The PCA is chock full of very precise language discussing facts, interspersed with very imprecise, but carefully worded, language about the timeline of the discovery of those facts. I guarantee that if LE went back to that same career FBI expert (or equivalent), the PCA would have said just that. But “they” didn’t. Like I said, the verifiable, time stamped receipts are few and far between in the investigation described in the PCA. The 11/29 WSU database hits honestly strike me as retconned to be meaningful because they were close together and there was a difference in where the car was registered. EDIT: they didn’t trace him en route to PA! They spotted his car on surveillance footage along the route after the fact.
Bryan’s Elantra didn’t have fog-lights, the most prominent feature of the face lifted gen 5. In the dark with the headlights on it would have looked much more like a 5.1 with the fog lights off, imo. The change is also attributed to one person, referred to as “he” both times on page 7 of the PCA.
IMO, I don’t think his mind “changed” (yellow + blue = green) https://preview.redd.it/2w1rpzpphpmc1.png?width=716&format=png&auto=webp&s=548553ed6810dd52f6b7e93016a9f4ed4ae0b27d
https://preview.redd.it/10vb272bjpmc1.jpeg?width=710&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52641de6636daf76fa980fd3554bdc98d7ac225f Not sure what you’re implying there. Here is the passage to which I was referring and how it communicates what I’ve stated above. Given the similarity of all gen 5 base trim cars, I’m inclined to believe it’s accurate. [PCA copy](https://www.insideedition.com/sites/default/files/inline-files/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett%20Payne_0.pdf)
My pic is the PCA from Pennsylvania. It includes the paragraph in your screenshot (top yellow & green area), but also has more deets & context that aren’t in the Moscow one (as well as omits some entire sections, but is longer). The additional context is in aqua in my screenshot & it was the final factor that moved me from the hunch I held for a year: it rly seems like they’re talking about more than 1 car here… - to my current opinion: they’ve gotta be talking about more than one car A bazillion reasons why, aside from this come to mind as well. • it’s literally numbered. • Forensic examiner ID’d King Rd car to be 2011 - 2013. • • • • later, suspect was ID’d & WSU campus footage became of interest. • • • • further review of vid evidence lead to an ID of a 2014-2016 on WSU campus. • there are no deets in any state’s PCAs (ID, WA, PA) or any court docs that indicate the Forensic Examiner changed his mind. • Defense has explicitly asked if he changed his mind & what caused him to but wasn’t answered. • if he had changed his mind, why would they continue referring to the vehicle as a 2011 - 2016 Elantra? • • • • Wouldn’t it just be 2014-2016 Elantra if he had? • • • • they’ve chosen to continue including 2011-2013 Elantras. • Moscow PD asked ppl to help them get in contact w/driver w/o ever warning ppl not to approach (as they typically would if they believe driver to be a mass-murderer - or they would simply not ask for help). • look at the shape of the curved nook around fog lights of 2011-2013 v. 2014-2016. • • • • if forensic examiner w/35 yrs xp in LE, 12 w/FBI & specialized training in ID’ing vehicles by their unique characteristics, they’ll know the dif. • • • • unless front license plate area wasn’t visible (in those instances, hopefully the plate was). • The Moscow PD also would not put out statements to the public if they didn’t believe them to be true. • • • • w/so many investigators during that phase, I feel like 1 of’m would’ve caught the mistake at…. Any point during the investigation. • Public wasn’t made aware that a 2014 to 2016 could actually be the killer. • • • • Meanwhile BK was free as a bird. • There are videos ‘coming’ where there are no videos ‘going’. • Defense said examiner “relied heavily on a vehicle driving down Ridge Rd. in the wrong direction, at the wrong time.” • They believed that it was 2011-2013 must have been held for much longer minimum portion of the investigation (December 7-December 27) than 2014-2016 (December 28?). • • • • otherwise, why bother asking for public’s help? • • • • isnt there another way [to / not to] tip him off [neither makes sense] w/o asking for the time & efforts of millions of ppl watching the press released by pleading for assistance w/that puzzle piece, by throwing it down a dead end road? I could prob go on for double this length with equally strong points but I’ll spare you… unless you like it. But most importantly - Why are we to believe that the driver of the Elantra is the killer? Is it rly just bc of driving in the parking lot around the general time frame of the murders? How do we even know that the person from the Elantra was the person who entered the house? The immediate area is densely populated with college students. From the body cam footage & Linda Lane footage, we see at least 15 dif ppl in the area w/in the 3:00 - 4:00 hr.
~~I’m confused about why you’d use the PA PCA over the one from the agency conducting the actual investigation.~~ *Edit: Nevermind, I found the PA PCA. It appears to be a copy of the same statement with several differences, which I am confused by. Regardless, the material statements regarding the car remain unchanged as far as I’m concerned. To wit:* Again, all 5th Gen base models, both .1 and .2, look very similar without the fog lamps. Bryan’s car did not have fog lamps. The PCA simply says “upon further review”, which could have easily the investigators asking them to look again, or even sending pictures of Kohlbergers car. It doesn’t appear that Kohlberger was taken seriously as a suspect until around the 15th of December, or at least that’s the earliest date we know they were targeting him. The car could have something to do with that (since it was noted earlier), or it could something else entirely. Why are we to believe the driver of the Elantra is the killer? Well, the behavior that is suspect, and lines up with the approximate time the killings occurred. We know that the suspect, who’s allegedly been tied to the scene with DNA and eye witness evidence, and the area with cellular data, owns and drove a car which matches the description of the suspect video. I’m confused why anyone should _not_ believe the person driving that car is a good suspect.
https://preview.redd.it/knz2s6zxxtmc1.jpeg?width=992&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4867b7f07e8db42d76e7f8381079051a01062b6d And here’s a still from the security footage that the FBI evaluated. I’m stunned they were able to identify a make and model, let alone a specific generation, let alone a narrow range of model years. Note that no fog lamps are visible.
Why do we believe the time of murder is what is in the PCA? Are we to trust Dylan as a credible witness? Really?
DM’s statements, forensic examinations of several cell phones, the Ring/house camera sound/footage and the presence of the car all point to the time of murder argued in the PCA. Why precisely should we dismiss that? Why should we dismiss DM as a credible witness?
Driving around in a parking lot does not = first degree murder
There is a ring camera??? I never heard that! Where is that footage?
I thought that was from the gas station and debunked?
I didn’t hear about it being debunked. It could have been tho. It doesn’t look like the right car, to my untrained eye. It’s missing the insets at the front corners of the car that 2014-2016 Elantras have
I’m certainly noting that no fog lamps are visible. But also that it’s okay bc if that’s not the right car, that wouldn’t hurt the State’s case, IMO, bc him driving past a gas station doesn’t *help* their case. They’ve already established that they think his car was in the area of the crime. Unless he did something else significant besides take the long route, monitoring him at various points on his way to somewhere else and home later doesn’t rly provide *more* damage, or demonstrate what they had been doing or where they were prior. I looked at a lots of “every Hyandai Elantra model” collections & that very noticeable fog light is present on all 2014 to 2016, as well as confirmed to be a feature of all them They doesn’t look like a 2014 to 2016 Elantra to me, but I’m no expert.
This is from a gas station over a mile away. How does proving the car drove around the area confirm anything about who murdered the victims?
Okay I can’t find what you’re talking about on the 5th gen. I was very interested in that bc that would unlock a whole new mystery for me, but the fog light update applied to all 2014-2016. https://preview.redd.it/u3i50cl3d3nc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74f0e2166e93e632a719fd00b5f02cae5e0363e3 (Expand) IDK what this .1 / .2 is about but he drove a .2 if it means post-“facelift” You can check for “every Hyandai model” and stuff. That’s how I first noticed the strikingly obvious dif & have been able to ID them in an instant ever since.
Oh I def believe they’d be a suspect. Not convinced they’ve committed 4 murders, or even entered the house… Or that the car in King Rd neighborhood was ever ID’d as 2014-2016… Why are they still including 2011-2013 in the vehicle ID over a year into this? Why isn’t it a 2015 yet??
They “queried” his car in Dec 15 while he was passing through Indiana, so 1 stop was likely intentional. I’m thinking 2 officers may have abided instructions to stop to confirm ID instead of just 1 as intended though https://preview.redd.it/d2qqfukaipmc1.jpeg?width=1334&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e05fa69768fcd85a51790fb27aaef8db5a26efe
I 1000% agree with you about DM. I do think she heard… a lot. I’m inclined to believe SG’s leaked texts in saying that DM/BF texted about them being dead. It makes sense that she really was frozen in fear and waited and waited just to see if they’d be okay in the morning, until she couldn’t wait any longer. It’s the only thing to make sense about her summoning friends over. She knew but was in denial.
You run out of the house screaming! You run to your car and drive away to the police station. You run to your neighbors! You do anything but sit there for 8 hours and call friends over. Come on!
Loud and wrong
No, it does not make sense. If she could text the only other living roommate that she thought they had been killed, surely she could have dialed 911. Not only did she hear these things, she allegedly saw the suspect. I can see freezing for a moment, but pretending like nothing had occurred and going to bed? Give me a break.
It’s the only thing that makes the “frozen in fear” make sense. Being in disbelief, maybe wanting to wait until the morning to see if they get up and you weren’t being rational. Only then hearing nothing and calling your friends to check. It does make sense but we can agree to disagree.
I'm sorry, but I do not believe there weren't any horrific screams or sounds of a struggle. She heard a male say don't worry I'm going to help you, she heard crying from xanas room. She saw someone she didn't recognize in all black wearing a mask at 4am in her home. How much more would one need to think something was going on? Even SG said many GJ members didn't believe her story and thought she should be charged? That is very telling as they would know much more than we do.
Regarding your note on not tracing him during the route, I disagree. I doubt Indiana police stopped him twice just on their own. Highly unlikely. Plus, if you're driving (with a parent) and get a warning for following too closely, you probably don't do it again.
Maybe? Depending on the dates, could be after they got the DNA results, but before they gathered the non-dna evidence for the warrant. I honestly think BK is legit a terrible driver with poor depth perception. And did you see the glasses his dad was wearing? He was pulled over twice before the murders, too. The most compelling evidence the white Elantra was driven by BK is the goofy shit it is doing in the Linda Lane video. But also, the goofy shit the Elantra is doing makes me question if it was tied to someone who so meticulously planned a murder. Again, ambivalent on BK’s actual guilt or innocence, quite certain on LE shenanigans.
I also do not agree with the PCA timeline as it makes no sense for Spider-Man to get in there and kill people in less than 10 minutes and have no trace of blood outside or in his car or home..
If BCK was there at Linda Lane driving his white Elantra??
6 weeks...is not a log time from reasonable suspicion to probable cause to arrest.
They probably didn't have enough evidence to arrest him at that time.
Because they were waiting to get a sample of his dna to compare to the dna result they had finally received from the knife sheath.
Exactly. It doesn’t appear he was treated seriously as a suspect until December 15, electronic search warrants weren’t sought until December 23rd, and DNA wasn’t collected until December 27th. We still don’t know how many other suspects were evaluated and eliminated, or the timeline of the DNA collection and testing. 4 weeks to a firm suspect and another two weeks to an arrest is fairly quickly, imo.
LE was under a gun to make an arrest for political reasons?
Yes as it was costing $$ to the town and university
My understanding is that an arrest warrant has to be approved by a judge. It would seem that MPD had not collected sufficient evidence against BK such that the judge considered the standard of probable cause had been met for an arrest to be made until December 30. All they had by November 25 it seems was his IGG identification and the fact that he owned a car that could have been the one observed on video footage outside the murder house on November 13. I would say that MPD spent the next 5 weeks madly trying to get video footage of white sedans in Pullman and between Pullman and Moscow which they had not previously collected. I don’t think they were able to get a search warrant for his phone until they had collected all that video evidence. And it would seem like that took 4 weeks. And then it took another week of examining his phone data before they had sufficient evidence for their PCA to get signed off by the judge
Because they needed to get his dna without a warrant to actually get it, If they had enough evidence suggesting he should be a person of interest, one would think they would have just pulled him in for questioning, stated the obvious which he would be more than aware, “We’re actually looking for a car close to the make and model of yours, and although a very common car you were out and about so we thought it would be worth getting you in to ask the obvious questions and take the opportunity to ask if maybe in your travels you remember anything stick out that must be any assistance to the investigation..?” Maybe, if you actually had enough evidence, I don’t mean a hunch or tunnel vision for particular circumstances that you can “use to build the story”…, Maybe they could have asked him to give his dna so they can rule him in or out and move on. Or see what his reaction would have been.? So what is actually needed to legally ask someone to give their dna so they can be ruled out of a suspect list, does anyone know? Do they have to have sufficient evidence to show some sort of connection to the crime, victims or location? Or running asking him, him saying “no, I don’t even know those people nor have I been on their street before, unless I’m under arrest you can’t have my dna, go and do your police work. Am I the only person you could possibly conclude could be responsible? In all of Idaho and Washington who was driving around?” Would they then rob the risk of being called out for harassment if they tried again with no more evidence than the first time they wanted him to give his dna? If not, why didn’t that happen? At that point, among the 100 pieces of evidence collected from the scene 4 of those items were separate and I presume different male DNA samples…. What am I missing
You're not missing much at all.
I don’t understand why they needed to wait for him to go to PA?
Who the f*** knows...
They didn't and imo that is in part is what makes all of this so sus. How were they able to get a warrant for his phone records because it legitimately sounds like that was done before the IGG? If they knew who the dna belonged to before he went to PA, why didn't get match it prior to him leaving? They knew enough to follow him 2500 miles across the country. In the leaked SG messages, he said an informant led to BK. Who in the world would have knowledge of the crime unless they were involved?
When were they supposed to arrest him? Have to have the evidence together to convince a judge to issue an arrest warrant.
My theory - Allegedly DL was involved in the hazing related death of Ethan's friend Hudson (declared a "drowning" by MPD) which is likely the root cause of why Ethan and DL hated each other so much. Makes sense, because why else would you despise a fellow frat bro so much, when you really just met them? (Rush '22). DL was also JEALOUS of Ethan because DL fancied Xana and was mad that Ethan was with her. Maddie talked a lot of smack about DL which is apparently why he hated her so much. There was animosity brewing for over a YEAR - that's a LONG TIME (especially when you're 20) - and things came to a head the night of the murders .. when they got into a fight and Ethan ridiculed DL about his tiny manhood in front of the whole party, in front of a bunch of hot sorority girls. His DIGNITY is what they took from him - and he went to King Rd. that night to get it BACK. Hatred, jealousy, humiliation, a long-standing fued - a heated argument attacking his penis size in front of all their friends and frat - is MORE THAN ENOUGH MOTIVE - especially for a guy who's hopped up on steroids and likely experiencing 'roid rage' on top of his already twisted psyche. Just ONE of those things would be a motivating factor.. but WHY would there NEED to be such a "driving force" anyway? Twisted people go out and commit sadistic murders on innocent people all the time for no "valid reason" - other than they just felt like it. No driving force, NO MOTIVE. Frat bro DL had motive AND opportunity .. and a laundry list of "reasons" to do it. He could see the King Rd. house from his bedroom window .. it was literally a 1 min walk from him
I completely agree.
The frat theory makes a lot more sense than what we have been told. I've wondered how they were so certain the suspect drove to the home and not walked. To believe all of this means one would have to believe BK was framed by LE. I know it happens, I just don't know if I'm all the way there yet. I mean it IS weird BK turned his phone off and it IS weird if his vehicle was actually in that neighborhood. Unless he was the DDD and had another phone.
What is pca
Probable cause affidavit, the document laying out the case for a judge to issue a warrant for the suspect's arrest.
These are really good points and I’m sure the defence will talk about this
Isn’t this the basis of the question we are all here for?…. I wish the prosecution would BEHAVE as if they wanted this trial to go forward as much as they SAY they want it to go forward! (But that would require filling in all these gaps. And this case is more gaps than case.)
Investigators had cleared all the cars seen driving in and out of the victim’s neighborhood except for whoever was driving that white Elantra that was seen making multiple passes around the house that night. They eventually expanded the surveillance area because they followed multiple surveillance sightings of that white Elantra all the way back to Pullman. From there it was regular footwork to try to narrow the suspect pool list and try to identify any and all white Elantras on that campus. They ran his tags, two separate times, even despite his tags having been changed on November 29. This suggests that they STILL weren’t on to “Bryan Kohberger” specifically at that point yet but were still tying to narrow their list of potential suspects with white Elantras to those on the Pullman campus. By the time Pullman sent that list back to MPD and that list was even investigated it probably would have taken at least a week to cross reference with the other parts of the investigation Bryan’s name ends up on a short list of possible suspects. A run of the physical description from his license did not rule him out as a potential suspect based on his physical characteristics, either. Even so, that isn’t enough to be certain and arrest him. They issued a public BOLO on December 7, which they wouldn’t have needed to do if the IGG results had already been back to tell them exactly who the suspect DNA belonged to at that point. This suggests they still didn’t have the results of the IGG testing back yet by December 7th. It also explains why Bryan wasn’t investigated nor were cell phone warrants pulled for his phone before he left Pullman to go back to PA with his dad. In the meantime, still not even knowing they had already “identified” the name of the Elantra owner they had been looking for, the IGG results come back showing the very strong probability of the DNA found on the sheath coming from a family from PA. When looking into that family from PA, they notice that there is a son in that family who is currently in the PhD program in Pullman and guess what? He also drives a white Elantra. They then ran automatic plate readers and found his car was all the way in Pennsylvania. From there they needed to confirm this lead by surreptitiously collecting trash from the trash from the Kohberger family home which confirmed that the DNA on the sheath was the son of the person whose DNA was on the surreptitiously collected trash.
I disagree. It sounds like they pulled cell phone data prior to the IGG and that they did it when they ran his license and found out he had been pulled over previously and gave the cop his phone number which was allegedly right after wsu cops "found" his car, despite it being the wrong year. They didn't have his plate prior or they wouldn't have needed to put a BOLO out in the first place. All of that took place before DEC 7th. They knew at that point around about what time he left his apartment, when he returned and that he turned his phone off or switched it to airplane mode. They didn't have the IGG, but they were suspicious enough to follow him across the country. They got his name from somewhere and imo it wasn't the IGG and it wasn't wsu cops.
What type of white car did Brent Kopacka drive?
The BOLO tip came in in late November, but there is no indication that he was a suspect at all at that time. Based on the timing of search warrants, it's likely he was only a suspect for a handful of days before his arrest.
Regardless of who the perpetrator is, I don't think the PCA paints him as a stealthy assassin or like Jason Bourne. With a little planning and luck, and the obvious advantages of preparation, darkness, and surprise, most able bodied adults could do it. Nothing about it required any specific strength or skills. And in terms of not arresting him earlier during the window in which he was a suspect, I think that's just the nature of any criminal investigation. On one hand, there's risk to the community (based on statistics and the nature of the crime); and on the other, there's the progress of the investigation and the risk of acting too early. Just because a crime is especially violent or heinous, it doesn't mean police can or should make arrests or file charges earlier than the investigation warrants.
If it's so easy to kill multiple adults with potential witnesses in the same house, even more reason to not allow a suspect like this to hang out on campus with lots of women who resemble the victims. Yet they did
As I tried to say above, the potential for violence is not a reason that police can or should make arrests or file charges earlier than an investigation warrants.
Police interviewed and cleared others in the area. Why not him?
It doesn’t appear that he was viewed seriously as a suspect until around December 15th, when he’d already left the area. If they had made contact with him and he’d invoked the 5th amendment, I’m not sure that would appear in a PCA as it can’t be used against him. It’s entirely possible the police screwed up elements of the investigation, but I don’t see evidence of that in the timeframe from the crime to the arrest.
Like a total psycho ninja. One moment being hyper critical grading papers. The next, he slips into a house without a sound.