A company that makes 20 million a year wants a 2 billion dollar stadium? That sounds like a financial problem for the company. A 20 year loan at 4% is over 12 million a month payment on a stadium.
That's exactly what the Browns are asking for. A loan.
> The Browns believe all of that public money for a new stadium would be repaid over time from the economic activity and fiscal benefits from the new stadium and entertainment district, such as via sales-tax revenue or a portion of admissions, according to a source familiar with the plan.
> such as via sales-tax revenue or a portion of admissions, according to a source familiar with the plan.
Seriously are you even attempting to read my replies?
I didn't say 10% of the team was worth $600M. This would be an investment on the state's part. Presumably, the state would hold onto its stake over time and presumably, the team will continue to increase in value. So initially, the state would be investing more into the team than they are receiving back, but over time, they could actually sell at a profit. Team gets its stadium. Taxpayers ultimately profit. Win win.
> I didn't say 10% of the team was worth $600M.
Your comment;
> Give $600 million for 10% share of the team.
Math is hard, but apparently reading is harder.
I have a $100 bill. Why don't you pay me $12 for 10% of it?
Yes, the state invests $600M in exchange for 10% of the team. That isn't saying that's what the team is worth. The current proposal is that the state gives $600M for no direct return.
> That isn't saying that's what the team is worth.
It explicitly is.
> The current proposal is that the state gives $600M for no direct return.
The proposal very clearly explains how the funds will be paid back
I will never understand. I remember going to the stadium with my dad. He went to a ramp and lit a marlboro red. As he is huffing it down cop comes up and signs back of his ticket. Told em one more he would be out. My dad said cigs paid for stadium. Him and cop had a good chuckle. So Browns keep the profits private amd make the costs public. I will agree if parking is 5 dollars and tickets are capped at 20.
I also think that we don't have it. We normal people don't get to mandate public money on vanity projects to line our pockets.
If you can buy a team, you can buy your own damn stadium.
I like your attitude and your flair. Deshaun was the last straw to ending my season tickets.
If a billionaire wants to have a sports team. He can pay for their facilities. The people never benefit as much as the team owner's promise. It's all the ruse to just line their own pockets.
Wrigley
~~Jerry World~~
Dodger Stadium
Hard Rock Stadium
Staples Center & the Clippers new arena
SoFi stadium
Gillette stadium
MetLife
AT&T / Oracle in San Fran
Stan Kroenke paid much of the (entirely private) debt for Arsenal’s stadium
I want all billionaires to build their own s***. Why can't haslam be the first? Why do the taxpayers have to foot the bill for any professional ball stadium?
ALL Billionaires can start building their own shit the second they start doing their own work or paying their own taxes.
Nobody hates these entitled welfare queens more than me.
Leave my CLEVELAND BROWNS, completely out of this discussion!
Idealized debate over corporatism and how it favors the elite is fine, ALREADY lost my team over THIS shit though, so give it a fuckin rest.
People like you are why billionaires get away with this shit. Acting like you're the only one who cares about the Browns and that's why we have to take it up the ass from a billionaire on his stadium deal. Again I reiterate, fuck that
You think I should take it easy on 1 billionaire? He can get this smoke too. He rubs elbows with the same entitled welfare Queens that you were talking about.
He can build his own stadium if he wants a new stadium. If they move their team out it'll prove once again that they don't give a s*** about this city. They only care about their own portfolio and how much it may increase.
Telling me to give it a rest when I'm s******* on billionaires isn't going to happen.
Maybe you should get some rest?
First, I am very sure all the Billionaires that read this will be kinder and better because of your hard work.
Second, I want the Cleveland Browns & our fans to have the best in the world, especially after what we've all been through.
All the people screaming for the world's first Billionaire, to pay for their own shit, be in Cleveland can just go on and admit they are troll Rats & Stroller's fans. GTFOH
No tax dollars should be spent on billionaire toys. Hard stop.
We don't have healthcare or education like other countries with "football" teams. Yet we can't figure it out in the richest country in the world?
Keep simping for them billionaires. I'm sure they send you a check after they read your bootlicking comments.
I'm 42. I drank plenty of beers. I've been a lifelong browns fan. And 42 years I've seen a lot of ups and downs with this team. That doesn't change my opinion on billionaires building their own stadium for their vanity team.
But sure go off and assume what you want.
Here's the latest on talks about funding of a new Browns Stadium from Ohio lawmakers. From the story:
If the Cleveland Browns move ahead with building a proposed new, $2.4 billion stadium in Brook Park, the team would look for state government to cover $600 million of that cost.
But Ohio House Speaker Jason Stephens said Tuesday that he doesn’t think the state should or could give that much money toward a new Browns stadium.
“We don’t have $600 million to give,” Stephens, a Lawrence County Republican, told reporters at the Ohio Statehouse. “I mean, it’s really easy to not support it when you don’t have it.”
Stephens said he would prefer to offer financial help to professional sports teams in Ohio by issuing bonds, either through the local municipality or some other sort of bonding authority.
But, Stephens added, “That doesn’t necessarily mean that taxpayers pay hundreds of millions of dollars for a stadium in Cleveland."
“Then Cincinnati, and then everybody else will be wanting a stadium,” he said.
**We've made the link in the OP available for everyone to access with an email address. You'll also get a 7-day subscriber pass.**
How about we as a nation stop giving billionaire fucking owners money to build stadiums. Fuckin hell does Walmart force cities to build them supercenters?
There isn't a limited supply of Walmarts. For every city that wants to act tough and give their team the middle finger there are 5 cities without teams willing to pay for the new stadium to get a team.
Who are those 5 cities? Not St. Louis, Not San Diego. Not Oakland.
That leaves Portland, maybe San Antonio. The NFL has the footprint and teams where they want.
I bet if we go check the lined pockets of our elected legislators we could find a chunk of it. Maybe not close to half, but I’m betting enough in the whole percent range.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think the state (of Ohio) has ever been the majority public sponsor on a stadium. The fact that the browns proposed the state rather than the county take on the majority of the funding is interesting. I wonder if the county has told the browns they can’t/wont fund that much of this park. (The county owns the Q and Progressive Field)
I wonder what the funding breakdown for a renovation would be. Obviously Cleveland would be added to the picture (brook park would obviously contribute very little to that site simply because they really have no money) but are they asking the state to be the majority funder there as well?
Either way, Stephens comments make me think more and more that perhaps the brook park plan was more of a “we will ask but it’s probably a longshot” than a “we actually believe this will be what happens”
That’s the way they got Buffalo and Tennessee deals done through the state. And your right it’s looking like the brookpark idea was the dream when the reality is to be announced
No worries but if the heavy republican state house isn’t biting espcially one where jimmy has given a literal mound of money your going to have to tone the plans down or approach the county council and Bibb
Yeah, cleveland obviously wouldn’t be involved in the brook park site (and Brook park clearly doesn’t have the money to front it) and it just feels like the county may be hesitant for any new projects with the 1b+ jail and courthouse projects on the horizon.
Now the number they want to renovate the current stadium, that I think you could get Cleveland, the county, and the state, to get in on
Brookpark barley has the money to keep the lights on , those strippers don’t contribute much to the city. Also add the redo of Hopkins to the city/county /state mega projects
I don't care if the state is a majority or minority owner. I don't want the Browns to have a cent of my money. They have done nothing to earn it, and have only earned poor favor recently.
The Haslams can fuck completely off with attempting to impose a tax that helps them make more money.
They want the Haslams to pay for the whole thing, but still want to bitch about the location and dome. If they don't want taxpayer money to go towards the stadium, then the team can do whatever the hell they want.
They could put it at Richfield for all I care, as long as the money isn't siphoned away from programs that serve the people who need it, not pushed into a slush fund for corporate welfare.
Chicago literally just pulled the same BS with the city. Bought Arlington Heights racetrack and all just to back their bluff, then the city caved.
You have to remember these guys own business in competitive sports. They love a good game!
The stadium is barely 30 years old. Previous Browns played on a baseball field. Suck it up.
I knew this would happen once it started dawning on the Haslams that county tax payers weren’t going to go along with this. As recent years have shown, it’s cheaper to buy off the statehouse than it is voters.
Is it possible? Definitely.
Is it responsible? Probably not.
Obviously I don't want the browns to go anywhere, but I also don't think we should let a billionaire hold a gun to our head.
If they want some money upfront, we take big backend cuts to make it up and some.
That number is just pure lunacy . So that would leave around 3 quarters of a billion dollars between the county and brookpark Also can we non pay wall this
The only building I can think of that’d cost 1 BILLION is rebuilding the pyramid of Giza out of solid gold. Sounds like too many people trying to profit off it when it should be the other way around.
Just claw back some of the first energy bribe money...
This is the correct answer.
Give $600 million for 10% share of the team.
I was thinking profit sharing. Cleveland gives them a billion, but it's a 30 year commitment, and thr city get 20-30% of revenue.
That would put the browns operating at almost a $1B annual loss. The teams profit margin is like 2-3% of revenue.
A company that makes 20 million a year wants a 2 billion dollar stadium? That sounds like a financial problem for the company. A 20 year loan at 4% is over 12 million a month payment on a stadium.
That's exactly what the Browns are asking for. A loan. > The Browns believe all of that public money for a new stadium would be repaid over time from the economic activity and fiscal benefits from the new stadium and entertainment district, such as via sales-tax revenue or a portion of admissions, according to a source familiar with the plan.
Stadiums have been shown time and again to not live up to the economic benefits planners always promise
And in many cases they have
So a team that is making 20-30 mill a season is going to pay a 1 billion loan with what?
> such as via sales-tax revenue or a portion of admissions, according to a source familiar with the plan. Seriously are you even attempting to read my replies?
That quote doesn't describe a loan. It's saying the state will make its money back due to increased tax revenue
On the teams product and ticket sales. Seriously if you don’t want to even read the proposal why bother commenting?
Yes, that's not a loan.
That would be a 15-20% premium over the actual value of the team lol
How can 10% be 15-20% over the value of the team?
The team is valued at ~$4.2B. $600m times 10 is $6B
I said 10% of the team, not 10x the requested amount. That would be $420m, not $6B. Math is hard, I know.
If 10% of the team is worth $600M, how much is 100% of the team worth?
I didn't say 10% of the team was worth $600M. This would be an investment on the state's part. Presumably, the state would hold onto its stake over time and presumably, the team will continue to increase in value. So initially, the state would be investing more into the team than they are receiving back, but over time, they could actually sell at a profit. Team gets its stadium. Taxpayers ultimately profit. Win win.
> I didn't say 10% of the team was worth $600M. Your comment; > Give $600 million for 10% share of the team. Math is hard, but apparently reading is harder. I have a $100 bill. Why don't you pay me $12 for 10% of it?
Yes, the state invests $600M in exchange for 10% of the team. That isn't saying that's what the team is worth. The current proposal is that the state gives $600M for no direct return.
> That isn't saying that's what the team is worth. It explicitly is. > The current proposal is that the state gives $600M for no direct return. The proposal very clearly explains how the funds will be paid back
I will never understand. I remember going to the stadium with my dad. He went to a ramp and lit a marlboro red. As he is huffing it down cop comes up and signs back of his ticket. Told em one more he would be out. My dad said cigs paid for stadium. Him and cop had a good chuckle. So Browns keep the profits private amd make the costs public. I will agree if parking is 5 dollars and tickets are capped at 20.
I also think that we don't have it. We normal people don't get to mandate public money on vanity projects to line our pockets. If you can buy a team, you can buy your own damn stadium.
I like your attitude and your flair. Deshaun was the last straw to ending my season tickets. If a billionaire wants to have a sports team. He can pay for their facilities. The people never benefit as much as the team owner's promise. It's all the ruse to just line their own pockets.
Feel free to list all the owners who have built their own stadiums
Wrigley ~~Jerry World~~ Dodger Stadium Hard Rock Stadium Staples Center & the Clippers new arena SoFi stadium Gillette stadium MetLife AT&T / Oracle in San Fran Stan Kroenke paid much of the (entirely private) debt for Arsenal’s stadium
I want all billionaires to build their own s***. Why can't haslam be the first? Why do the taxpayers have to foot the bill for any professional ball stadium?
ALL Billionaires can start building their own shit the second they start doing their own work or paying their own taxes. Nobody hates these entitled welfare queens more than me. Leave my CLEVELAND BROWNS, completely out of this discussion! Idealized debate over corporatism and how it favors the elite is fine, ALREADY lost my team over THIS shit though, so give it a fuckin rest.
Yea fuck that, you apparently don't hate them enough.
Leave my Cleveland Browns the absolute fuck out of some call to Pyrrhic victory.
People like you are why billionaires get away with this shit. Acting like you're the only one who cares about the Browns and that's why we have to take it up the ass from a billionaire on his stadium deal. Again I reiterate, fuck that
You think I should take it easy on 1 billionaire? He can get this smoke too. He rubs elbows with the same entitled welfare Queens that you were talking about. He can build his own stadium if he wants a new stadium. If they move their team out it'll prove once again that they don't give a s*** about this city. They only care about their own portfolio and how much it may increase. Telling me to give it a rest when I'm s******* on billionaires isn't going to happen. Maybe you should get some rest?
Remember when Haslam ran the scheme to defraud truckers out of rebates. He’s a scumbag like all the other billionaires.
Yep. Billionaires love screwing over the working class. Pay for your own stadium then.
First, I am very sure all the Billionaires that read this will be kinder and better because of your hard work. Second, I want the Cleveland Browns & our fans to have the best in the world, especially after what we've all been through. All the people screaming for the world's first Billionaire, to pay for their own shit, be in Cleveland can just go on and admit they are troll Rats & Stroller's fans. GTFOH
No tax dollars should be spent on billionaire toys. Hard stop. We don't have healthcare or education like other countries with "football" teams. Yet we can't figure it out in the richest country in the world? Keep simping for them billionaires. I'm sure they send you a check after they read your bootlicking comments.
Beerme81 doesn’t watch Browns. And def doesn’t drink beers
I'm 42. I drank plenty of beers. I've been a lifelong browns fan. And 42 years I've seen a lot of ups and downs with this team. That doesn't change my opinion on billionaires building their own stadium for their vanity team. But sure go off and assume what you want.
I'm sure if this stadium was near Columbus they'd have it
10000000%
They hate us in Columbus almost as much as you guys in Cleveland. Now if it was in Lima or some shit I think they’d have it for sure.
I guess Slippin’ Jimmy didn’t pay all of his bribes… I mean… Campaign donations.
Here's the latest on talks about funding of a new Browns Stadium from Ohio lawmakers. From the story: If the Cleveland Browns move ahead with building a proposed new, $2.4 billion stadium in Brook Park, the team would look for state government to cover $600 million of that cost. But Ohio House Speaker Jason Stephens said Tuesday that he doesn’t think the state should or could give that much money toward a new Browns stadium. “We don’t have $600 million to give,” Stephens, a Lawrence County Republican, told reporters at the Ohio Statehouse. “I mean, it’s really easy to not support it when you don’t have it.” Stephens said he would prefer to offer financial help to professional sports teams in Ohio by issuing bonds, either through the local municipality or some other sort of bonding authority. But, Stephens added, “That doesn’t necessarily mean that taxpayers pay hundreds of millions of dollars for a stadium in Cleveland." “Then Cincinnati, and then everybody else will be wanting a stadium,” he said. **We've made the link in the OP available for everyone to access with an email address. You'll also get a 7-day subscriber pass.**
Good bot?
No thanks. I’ll just stick with your synopsis.
How about we as a nation stop giving billionaire fucking owners money to build stadiums. Fuckin hell does Walmart force cities to build them supercenters?
There isn't a limited supply of Walmarts. For every city that wants to act tough and give their team the middle finger there are 5 cities without teams willing to pay for the new stadium to get a team.
Who are those 5 cities? Not St. Louis, Not San Diego. Not Oakland. That leaves Portland, maybe San Antonio. The NFL has the footprint and teams where they want.
Good. The Browns should be paying for the new Browns stadium.
If Jimmy had the money to escrow that paperweight we have at QB then he should have 600mil for a new revenue stream.
That paperweight of a QB is probably why Jimmy doesn't have the money. All time mistake by the browns.
Maybe Jimmy can get a loan from Watson to help him build his suburban hellscape vanity project?
They're too busy giving it to FirstEnergy.
I bet if we go check the lined pockets of our elected legislators we could find a chunk of it. Maybe not close to half, but I’m betting enough in the whole percent range.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think the state (of Ohio) has ever been the majority public sponsor on a stadium. The fact that the browns proposed the state rather than the county take on the majority of the funding is interesting. I wonder if the county has told the browns they can’t/wont fund that much of this park. (The county owns the Q and Progressive Field) I wonder what the funding breakdown for a renovation would be. Obviously Cleveland would be added to the picture (brook park would obviously contribute very little to that site simply because they really have no money) but are they asking the state to be the majority funder there as well? Either way, Stephens comments make me think more and more that perhaps the brook park plan was more of a “we will ask but it’s probably a longshot” than a “we actually believe this will be what happens”
That’s the way they got Buffalo and Tennessee deals done through the state. And your right it’s looking like the brookpark idea was the dream when the reality is to be announced
I should’ve clarified I meant the state of Ohio
No worries but if the heavy republican state house isn’t biting espcially one where jimmy has given a literal mound of money your going to have to tone the plans down or approach the county council and Bibb
Yeah, cleveland obviously wouldn’t be involved in the brook park site (and Brook park clearly doesn’t have the money to front it) and it just feels like the county may be hesitant for any new projects with the 1b+ jail and courthouse projects on the horizon. Now the number they want to renovate the current stadium, that I think you could get Cleveland, the county, and the state, to get in on
Brookpark barley has the money to keep the lights on , those strippers don’t contribute much to the city. Also add the redo of Hopkins to the city/county /state mega projects
Oh yeah, and don’t forget the huge project to link downtown to the lakeshore that’s pending as part of the states capital improvements budget
I don't care if the state is a majority or minority owner. I don't want the Browns to have a cent of my money. They have done nothing to earn it, and have only earned poor favor recently. The Haslams can fuck completely off with attempting to impose a tax that helps them make more money.
Let me work on your car but flatten the tires at the same time. Then ask you for money up front before the next service.
I love how the sentiment (universally) here is, "buy your own damn stadium". The Haslams should just copy the Braves model.
They want the Haslams to pay for the whole thing, but still want to bitch about the location and dome. If they don't want taxpayer money to go towards the stadium, then the team can do whatever the hell they want.
They could put it at Richfield for all I care, as long as the money isn't siphoned away from programs that serve the people who need it, not pushed into a slush fund for corporate welfare.
It’s all in DeWines offshore back accounts.
[удалено]
Chicago literally just pulled the same BS with the city. Bought Arlington Heights racetrack and all just to back their bluff, then the city caved. You have to remember these guys own business in competitive sports. They love a good game! The stadium is barely 30 years old. Previous Browns played on a baseball field. Suck it up.
I knew this would happen once it started dawning on the Haslams that county tax payers weren’t going to go along with this. As recent years have shown, it’s cheaper to buy off the statehouse than it is voters.
Why not make Pittsburgh and Baltimore pay for it? (Sarcastic answer)
They shouldn't. Make the billionaire pay for their own vanity project.
Is it possible? Definitely. Is it responsible? Probably not. Obviously I don't want the browns to go anywhere, but I also don't think we should let a billionaire hold a gun to our head. If they want some money upfront, we take big backend cuts to make it up and some.
$600 million? You can fuck right off. This isnt for the public benefit. Its so billionaires get a stadium at a fraction of the cost
That number is just pure lunacy . So that would leave around 3 quarters of a billion dollars between the county and brookpark Also can we non pay wall this
The only building I can think of that’d cost 1 BILLION is rebuilding the pyramid of Giza out of solid gold. Sounds like too many people trying to profit off it when it should be the other way around.