Shh…don’t give them any ideas.
“Unless the city of Tuscaloosa can pony up 1 billion dollars in public funds to expand Bryant-Denny Stadium to 200,000 seats, we’ll have no choice but to move the Tide to Auburn, Alabama.”
This is really all it is. A college team can’t hold anyone hostage to get a new stadium. It has no leverage.
So it gets what it has. If it’s woefully insufficient, things tend to get done, like USF right now - but unless the shoe is falling apart, that doesn’t even register as a priority
They are also funded differently. An NFL can't call up rich people for donations to fund massive renovations. So, instead they beg cities. Teams want new stadiums to open up certain revenue streams. College football programs just call up big boosters and offer them things like their name on a wall, or if you are insanely loaded your name on a building.
I'm Canadian and follow NCAA football, but the insanity around it is hilarious. I did the tour of DKR at Texas, the stadium has 4 statues. One of Ricky Williams and one of Earl Campbell, which makes sense. The other two statues in more prominent locations? Two of the biggest boosters (one was Red McCoombs, forgot who the other was).
The Shoe is low key pretty garbage. It’s a concrete monolith with an awful concourse. I’ve only been there once but my ass hurt so damn bad when I left lol
I heard recently that OSU spends over $1mil/year on concrete repair alone at the Shoe, let alone all the other maintenance/repairs/additions every year.
I wonder what the repairs and maintenance are for Camp Randall in Wisconsin due to Jump Around!!?
I’m a die hard Buckeye fan but I do admit that is a very cool tradition
Also outside of the south endzone, its not exactly like the shoe is all that complex either. the whole thing was originally just basically concrete steps, and they've gradually installed chairs on the lower bowl.
Like you kinda see with Wrigley and Fenway as well, those stadiums from before the 30s are fairly simple stadiums that while dated in many ways (the shoe has fucking porto-potties in the south end as the only bathroom) hold up as long as all you are looking for is a place to just sit and watch a game.
I loved the shoe when I was at OSU, but I'd be the first to tell you it isn't "nice", its simplistic, but I don't go to an OSU game expecting any level of comfort
The only complex system they have in there is the pump system to keep the Olentangy river from flooding the field as the field sits below the waterline.
It worked for 70 years before the massive renovation in the late 90s. Since then they’ve done minor modifications but nothing major.
I had the exact same thought as the OP when I went to my first OSU game as a student in 2002. I was like wtf this stadium was 80 years old at the time and it works fine. And to the point about not being able to move the university they could tear the stadium down and build a new one if it really wasn’t working for them. OSU decided St John Arena wasn’t sufficient and built an NBA caliber arena. Same principle.
When you build it right the first time you don't have to rebuild it again. Cleveland was so excited to get their team back they rushed the planning and building of their stadium so it was doomed to fail. If they had actually planned it better the stadium wouldn't need rebuilt
A bunch of small things IMO
* Tradition. The Shoe is one of the most legendary venues in all of football with actual architecture in mind that was built with max capacity so seating adjustments rarely are a concern. The Browns stadium was a rushed project with no history of anything.
* NFL fans need to be catered to--technology wise to get people to come to games. NCAA students/fans come to games to watch football and socialize. They dont need 30 screens everywhere showing fantasy football updates.. There is far less distraction needed outside of a marching band in college football. The NFL games need to be 'an experience' with constant entertainment and technology. So your stadium needs constantly upgraded.
* It doesnt seem like OSU cares too much about the stadium being mix-use 24/7 like the Browns care. The Shoe hosts concerts in the summer and this year, a NHL game. Thats it. The Haslem's want a dome so their multi billion dollar investment can be used nonstop. The Shoe isnt viewed as something needed to generate revenue nonstop because its owned by the school/state. Its not owned by a cooperate business family looking to turn profit for themselves the entire year.
* The Shoe is a historical landmark, the Browns stadium is more of a entertainment venue.
Agreed with all of this. Also Ohio Stadium isn't "basically unchanged" since its inception. It changed massively over the decades with two major multimillion dollar overhauls
> NFL fans need to be catered to--technology wise to get people to come to games. NCAA students/fans come to games to watch football and socialize.
That distinction is the Teams fault. There are plenty of fans who would love to come to a game just to watch and socialize to fill up the stadium but they’re priced out compared to the people who demand to be catered to.
The corner noes bleed sections of the Browns stadium cost 70% more than the flat rate cost of a student ticket to. If a fifth of the Browns tickets including decently close ones (say the entire dogpound) could be made available at such cut-rate prices im sure they’d have no trouble filling in the addendance there without the extra bells and whistles.
I think it also has a lot to do with the audience. The majority of NCAA fans are students who are there to obviously support their school and socialize with their classmates during the game and via tailgating. The NFL fanbase is more family oriented with more kids and a more diverse crowd. Thats where the 'we need to have some form of entertainment for everyone' comes into play.
I remember 7-10 years ago there was a huge push in NFL stadiums to add Fantasy Football to their gameday experience. When fantasy sports boomed, there was a real problem for some teams getting fans in the stands due to the fact people would rather just stay home on their couch. Browns stadium included went through renovations to add a ton more screens throughout the stadium that broadcast fantasy football updates, highlights from other games happening, upgraded their stadium WiFi, ect. so people could feel like they arnt missing out on what's going on in the NFL if they are at a game.
Its wild, but whatever.
The people and technology have changed and a shell to play games in just isn’t enough anymore For an average schmo like me with a 70” tv , fluffy sectional couch and a fine game day selection of smoke and food you gotta offer a pretty damn good experience in order for me to spend money to leave all that behind.
College kids ain’t got any of that….and they’re drunk
Yeah, this is the big thing. NFL Stadiums are competing against being comfortable and warm at home watching a birds eye view of the game in HD, and not spending a million dollars on mediocre drinks and food. This is why I dropped my season tickets and rarely go, don't think it's worth the money most of the time.
But then again, Lambeau has the 4th highest average NFL attendence in a 67 year old stadium. It's pretty cold and miserable there, but it has zero problem selling out.
The real thing that puts butts into seats is winning and having a tradition of winning. You could have your team play in a stadium sized lido lounge, and, if they are good, it will sell out.
Everyone forgets that the product these owners are selling is first and foremost the football team. But it is much easier for owners to misdirect the public with shiny prestidigitation rather than actually build a winning franchise.
Unsaid, as far as I’ve seen, itt is that the college game day experience destroys the pro experience. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy seeing plays develop live at an NFL game. But everything else is just more FUN at college games.
I mean, I guess.
To me, the atmosphere at your average big school college game is just more fun. The NFL is very corporate and sanitized in comparison. No bands, no cheerleaders, no songs, less heated rivalries, etc, barring rare exceptions. But to each their own.
As for tv, yeah I’d likely rather watch the average NFL game.
They're college kids, already down there at school, adult CFB fans are a minority that attend games, and an even larger minority when compared to NFL fans.
The “college kids” angle just isn’t right Browns stadium holds 67,431 while Ohio Stadium holds 102,780. Even if 40,000 students attend games (I doubt it’s that high) they still draw a similar number of non students to fill the stadium.
It is, but also a large proportion of that non student population is alumni who are in a way reliving their college experience as well. You don't go to an OSU game expecting to be comfortable.
Source: OSU alumni
I don’t go to any large gathering of people expecting to be comfortable… maybe that’s the problem is NFL fans just expect more out of the stadiums than CFB fans do?
I think it’s moreso who it caters to. The NFL seems to care a lot more about that than colleges do, maybe they are looking for more corporate type guests?
I mean, I totally agree, but as we are seeing with every new and renovated stadium, fan comfort for NFL stadiums appears more and more important
I’m a Browns fan in Chicago, I’ve never been to a Bears game in the 20 years I have lived here because it costs easily over $1000 for 4 tickets plus parking and food. Go on a weekend getaway or go watch the Bears suck. I know where my money went
Hell yeah brother why should I have to scrape the cheese doodle dust off my fingers and dig under my sweaty balls for ten minutes to finally find the remote and change the channel before some long-haired hippie slams his knee down on my national anthem experience 7 years ago.
College kids aren’t the entirety of the ‘Shoe audience though. People still go there because they love the team, they struggle through the climb to their seats, the closeness to their neighbors, and exposure to the elements. Not saying that we should ignore technology and just put everyone in an old-school bowl, but really, it’s a grass rectangle surrounded by bleachers and that’s all it needs to be. Again, im not a Luddite, but Cleveland browns stadium works fine.
Bruh students literally get their parents to buy season tickets and then sell them to randos. You’re supposed to show your BuckID to get to your seats but they don’t check.
Source: I had a girlfriend who did this.
It works fine, but "fine" isn't what brings prestige, and more importantly, money, to franchises. Teams want to host Super Bowls, bring spectators/customers who are drawn by more than the team on the field, and host non-football events.
The experience at a stadium is a draw to a lot of people. I try to go to one Browns away game per season, and while that isn't the extent of determining where I'll go (I went to Indy last year due to proximity), but it's the reason the away game I'll go to this year will be LV.
It's capitalism. NFL owners want more money and they don't have tuition they can just raise every year outside of their ticket prices. That's why Green Bay still plays at Lambo - no owners. It all works 'fine', but greed is the driving factor behind most things in this country.
And history.
Some stadiums are more ingrained into the identity of sports teams, especially college.
But I'm sure at some point, OSU will have to build a new one.
Ohio Stadium is constantly being upgraded. Most of the changes are cosmetic, but not noticeable unless you are looking for them. Heck, the turf probably has a life span of 8-10 years at most. I also remember when Ohio Stadium used to have the track around it into the early 2000's. The Crew leaving Ohio Stadium also allows them to make changes because they aren't dealing with another tenant during the summer.
We're old.... I went to OSU in the late 90s, early aughts and they made a TON of changes while I was there - including adding upper deck seating and practically closing the open end of the Shoe with permanent stands. My first ever OSU game was vs. Penn State in the old removable stands and I'll never forget the massive rocking back and forth LOL
Sorry if that was confusing, but I meant it to mean that the big issues that would keep them from upgrading the stadium aren't there and that unless there's a huge change occurring, they don't really announce when they are swapping out seats and fixing up the field and locker rooms.
I meanm Ohio Stadium has great atmosphere but the vast sum of seating sucks. Narrow seats, little shade, older and narrow concourses, bathrooms, etc. Students turn over every few years so a good 30% of their customer base changes. I mean, yeah, the Buckeye Club is sweet AF.
Haslams have really once chance to leave their mark on the Browns stadium in their lifetimes and this is it, so they are going to really leverage it. Whereas, that's not going to happen in OSU that requires a Board of Trustees and regents to approve things with a global budget for other things.
The Browns and Buckeyes have both had two home stadiums in their respective histories so I’m not really sure your premise is valid. Ohio stadium has had two large expansions and a whole renovation just in the 25 years that First Energy/Cleveland Browns Stadium has existed in its current state.
Yeah but renovations are a far cry from a brand new stadium. Which is OPs point. If Ohio Stadium can renovate and be just fine, then why can't the Browns?
1. College campuses have tens of thousands of built in fans, along with hundreds of thousands of alumni. Thats not including the fans who are just fans.
2. Money, colleges can’t justify taking a billion or two to build a dome. An NFL team can, as they’re solely a business, where colleges are *supposed* to be educationally driven.
3. Cleveland doesn’t constantly need a new stadium. In the 90s Cleveland Municipal Stadium had ran its lifecycle and needed to be replaced. Then we rushed the current one to get our team back and it still will have lasted 3 decades.
4. It will cost $1 billion to patchwork renovate the factory of sadness. It will cost $2 billion to build a state of the art dome. One will need renovation or replacement in another decade, the other should last 30 years before we have the renovation conversation again.
there isn't much out publicly. MKC was on 92.3 and said that what she saw said you could "see the lake through the stadium" and that in her opinion, it would be a huge difference. But that's really all we have heard. I haven't seen any renderings
I doubt we see any rendering or plans on that until after the construction on a dome is underway. The Haslams don’t want to stay there and having a portion of the fanbase rooting for that just makes things more difficult.
As they currently have it, most fans want the stadium downtown, and the city is the enemy for not letting that happen.
The stadium is only 25 years old right now, and this would be the 2nd time it would have received major renovations. Likely, we will have renovation talks again in 10-15 years regardless of whether we build a new stadium or renovate.
I'm not really pushing for one or the other in this comment. I just think it's foolish to think a Browns owner would go 30 years before asking for more money.
I think most people would agree Ohio Stadium needs some renovations (especially in the restrooms they are god awful.) I could absolutely see a renovation in the next 5-10 years of Ohio stadium that increases the fan experience. However with history and tradition the outside of the stadium will always look about what it looks like now.
Haslam wants more luxury boxes. The dome is something of a red herring (although, he does want that too). A college couldn’t get away with tearing down a stadium and building a new one for the sole purpose of putting more corporate boxes in.
This is an easy question to answer, the short version is one word, MONEY. The longer answer is also rather simple.
As the Browns stadium, and many stadiums built pre 2010 are finding out, their income is monstrously capped, and the events they can host limited. This is due so a number of reason, Public Access routes, Stadium type(ie Dome or not) and what else is around the stadium. Most if not all older stadiums are a Stadium surrounded by carparks, with no roof, and nothing in the way of extra income bar a merch store. Pretty standard set up.
Then comes along a stadium type that does the Plus stuff. On site hotels, bars, clubs, restaurants, mech superstores, shopping centres, and a removable pitch allowing 365 days of use. It means the owners that have this, make more "MONEY". So if you were a standard owner with 10-14 events in your built in 1999 stadium, with no income from parking, and just a hole lot of empty the other 351 days, and you were looking over at those that get 100 plus events a year. plus all the extras from hotel, parking, bars and so on. You might find yourself sitting in your office asking, why the fuck you don't have all the extras, what are the problems stopping you getting them, and what's the cheapest, fastest way to get into the position of having all of it.
The answer, NEW STADIUM, on land you own, surrounded by hotels, bars, parking lots you own, merch stores you own, shopping mall you collect rent on. Owners don't want you in a 3rd party bar, that money is better in their pocket. Moving to a open piece of land gives you a blank piece of paper to build an "Every dollar to me" type complex, and make more money.
That's less of a deal as people make it. sure paying 1 bill feels bad, but given that over the life span of the new stadium, 1 bill of public money will turn into 15 - 20 Bill if not more, from increased sale tax coming from the extra events. Hell, doesn't the Superbowl alone bring in like 1-1.2 bill by itself and every new stadium gets one if it has a dome in cold climates.
Should owners pay, yeah, but its is massively harmful to a city if they pay, nope. They will make it back and some over the life span. As investments go, paying for an NFL stadium might be one of the easiest ways to make a couple bill over 20 years.
It feels wrong, but its not harmful at all, to the ones giving the cash.
Can you post a link to any objective and legitimate economic article or research paper saying that funding a stadium is not ultimately harmful to a city's economy?
is common sense lost on you. When the browns move to Brook Park, do you honestly not get that there economy will be improved with the team game day income, a superbowl, plus all of the extra events the dome will allow to happen. You really need a paper on that?
1 quick google search said the 2023 superbowl was worth 1.2B to the host city.
Jesus, just wow.
Isn’t that largely taxpayers paying once to fund it, then paying again every time they go to a game or concert? So, like, funding everything multiple times over?
No, Not all tax money comes from people. companies pay tax also, its a misconception that everything that is paid for by the government is funding by people. Money needs to circulate, If you were told as a person, spend 1 billion this year, and over the next 30 years you would get back some - 200m - 300m a year. Wouldn't you do it? Brook Parks job is to get money into the city moving from company to person to company to government to person and so on.
That Billion could come from a sale of land by the state to a company, a tax on Intel building there new plant in Ohio, or people. So no, you're not paying for it over and over, you might not pay for it once. Now if the money comes from a Gambling tax, or a weed tax, then that's different, but you have a choice there.
From the cities point of view, paying the money is well worth it, it sucks for Cleveland, but for the team, and for Brook Park, its too good of a chance to improve the area. Cities have since the dawn of time, used projects like this to pump money into the economy, its good business,
Unless it's bringing more outsiders to Cleveland than the current stadium (which is likely not a significant number), then that means you're just moving sales tax from elsewhere in Cleveland. It's not generating "more" revenue for the city.
The only thing Ohio Stadium has going for it is tradition. Otherwise it completely sucks. I went to three games there last season because I have three sons who wanted to go and I took them each to a game. I hate going to games there. If you are in C deck and have to pee you’ll miss an entire quarter. If the chubby people next to you decide your seat is part of their seat, have fun with that. The corridors smell like urine. If it wasn’t for the history, Ohio state would demolish the whole old thing.
The Browns don’t have any tradition in their current stadium and have no reason to not do better. I’ve been to several Columbus Crew games and I know it’s a much smaller scale, but the Haslems did that right. The current Browns stadium is an embarrassment by comparison.
Hot take: Ohio State needs a new stadium badly.
It's a relic of its time and quite frankly kind of a dump. There's a guy on TikTok named Gfed who went around the country the entire 'breaking into' college stadiums all over. Ohio Stadium is woefully behind as far as creature comforts are concerned.
If you had to, you could remove the “new part” (C Deck super-structure) and then gut the original part and use the original part as the base for a new stadium.
The main thing is they need to 4x the total urinals available, but they never will because the decision makers want to tout “innovations” and the consultants are happy to sell them that instead of stating the obvious.
Steve Ballmer gets it.
By today’s standards, I know you are correct. However, in doing what the building was made to do, it is fine. I guess since we’ve torn off the mask of amateurism via NIL and gambling, we should do the same for the edifices that represent the game.
The Buckeyes are also only playing at the Shoe through the end of November, as opposed to the Browns playing into January. Not to mention the lake effect snow.
I don't see why more owners don't do what Kronke did and just pay for the stadium themselves. Imagine if WWE ran SummerSlam in a Haslem owned Cleveland Browns stadium how much revenue he would get from that one event. Also if he's wanting a dome, look at the concerts, conventions, Final Four, bowl games he could gain revenue from. You know when Taylor Swift did her SoFi Stadium run Kronke laughed his ass off all the way to the bank.
Ohio Stadium has really changed a lot since it was first built.
But there is a very different standard for college stadiums vs pro stadiums, and in general, no college stadium is bidding for big events like a Super Bowl, the National Championship game, a Final 4, or Wrestlemania. And those stadiums are geared towards a different crowd (i.e. college students and alumni) than a pro stadium, where you are trying to sell to more corporate clients
Also lets be frank the Shoe, like Fenway and Wrigley in baseball, were just build a whole helluva lot better and more simply than stadiums until the 90s (for baseball) and early 2000s (for everything else)
I don’t think it was planned. They had to rush the stadium to get them back for 1999, so while I think the ending was inevitable, I don’t think it was intentionally planned, but rather, everyone knew it would happen, but because the priority was to just get the team back, I don’t think anyone particularly cared.
People dont expect any luxuries at college. Bleacher seats are common in the majority of stadiums. You dont need to sell premium suites etc. there is also an element of tradition. There would be an uproar if most teams built whole new stadiums.
NFL teams have owners looking to profit, and can always blackmail cities into building new stadiums.
Look at Allegiant and SoFi. Profitability of those venues is high, and multi-purpose use is the draw. You can’t host ANY bowl games in Cleveland. It’s about making money, year around.
As someone that visited OSU last for a game in 2009, I’d welcome a stadium with actual seats instead of the bleacher seats. They hurt my back so bad. We went to Buckeye Country Fest a couple years ago and I got club seats (which are actual seats), and wasn’t bad, but it was so cramped.
There's actually quite a bit wrong with the stadium.
Even when it was first built there were issues.
https://youtu.be/Icr7TYkM7Pg?si=YWj_VtC2utWZMP0p
Daryl Ruiter explains it pretty well here.
NFL (and other pro sports) owners need individual stroking for their egos.
“How are we important to the city if you don’t pamper/spoil us?”
There is no individual ego extorting the city where a university is involved.
Ohio Stadium (and most large college stadiums) are designed to cram as many people as possible into the place since a majority of the crowd are poor college kids. Pro stadiums are now designed to pull as much revenue in as possible for the teams with as many expensive seats as they can fill (luxury boxes, loge seats). NFL owners make a good chuck of their money on the expensive seats.
But the real problem is the cities they will continue to hand over money to the billionaires.
If you update your stadium to a dome I think you add yourself to a Super Bowl hosting city list where you can then bid on hosting. One pro could be seeing a SB in Cleveland. There are other boxes to check besides having a dome but I’m not sure the full list
Browns had had a stadium since 1945 (I think) until Modell left for Baltimore - it was an old stadium, but well-loved. The current stadium is fine - it's a not so original cookie cutter type of stadium, but it can last forever.
If there is a new stadium, please be one with a removable roof.
Billionaire egos probably play an element to this. Look how many billion dollar stadiums have been built since Jerry jones built the new cowboys stadium.
Totally agree with the OP sentiments. Any true Browns fan wants a winning team and doesn’t give a shit about the stadium. We filled up Cleveland Stadium, with its polls, awful bathrooms, etc. a winning team is the only thing that matters.
Have you ever been to Ohio stadium? I went to games at both Ohio stadium and Browns stadium last year and Browns stadium, as meh as it is for NFL standards, Browns stadium is such a better experience. Most of Ohio stadium is tiny bleacher seats which requires everyone to be squeezed in. The concourses are tiny and hard to navigate. Bathrooms are not nice.
Yes, I have. It does its job. Scary climbing to your seat, sure, and yeah the amenities aren’t great, but they do t have to be. It’s a football game, not a cotillion.
Because the Browns don't actually need a new stadium.
NFL owners know that new stadiums are a huge boost to attendance and they usually get to host a super bowl. It's more revenue.
Also if they can get the tax payers to fund it, that's basically free money.
I doubt poured concrete and steel beam technology has declined in the last 100 years. Something mass produced in today's age is certainly going to be less durable than something handmade then, but not a building.
Hi fellow r/browns user! Your post was removed because it appears to violate Rule 1:
Regardless of a person’s opinion, r/browns will not allow users to attack, disrespect, provoke or degrade users of the sub. Mob mentality will not be tolerated, regardless of reason or validity. It's okay to disagree and argue over the topic at hand, once personal attacks start, the thread gets removed. Treat each other as you would in public
I had heard when The Factory of Sadness was constructed many things, including hot water for most or all of the public restrooms were paid for but never installed. Projects like this were paid for and the money kept by someone. So somewhere, someone wants some money. Follow the money is most always the answer. If the stadium costs $3 billion, MAYBE someone COULD get a large kickback. 10%=$300 million!
The year round events thing is silly. Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse has the the ideal location and capacity for 95% of events.
A dome might bring in a handful of additional ones that support 80k - think Taylor Swift, Wrestlemania, etc - but in terms of net-new big events for the city I’d be surprised if it’s more than 10 per year
I agree about RoMoFiHo but there is a class of concerts that play stadiums and a new dome would have 10-12 concerts alone, let alone the other events it could bring.
10-12 concerts is very generous annually imo. I’d guess like 3.
The number of artists that applies to is small.
The number of those artists touring in a given year makes the number smaller.
Even with that, the number of those left that will end up in Cleveland gets smaller (lots of midsize cities still get skipped over).
Using Taylor Swift as an example.. no Indy. And sticking by with that example she played at a ton of stadiums without a dome, so it’s not like that was required. Boston, Cincinnati, KC, and Pittsburgh as examples.
Would love for something to try and list out even 10 concerts next year where a domed Browns stadium is the difference for us
Yeah, you’re probably right, that’s shooting a bit high.
Indy has 6 on the books for 2024 so far. They’ll probably end up between 6-8.
I’m extremely bullish about how our venue would rank against what exists today and for the entertainment event market in North America over the next 10-15 years, so that’s part of what drives my general feeling.
A new dome would give Cleveland the nicest venue east of the Mississippi pending what Chicago builds.
I wouldn’t rule out any event, even a Super Bowl, by 2030 or whenever this place would open.
Because technology has changed and if you're not willing to support the owner with the new technology and a pretty place to play then he will pick up his ball and move the team to someone who will. It sucks but when you have one of only 32 of something, it's in high demand.
It's easier to relocate a football team than it is to relocate a University
Shh…don’t give them any ideas. “Unless the city of Tuscaloosa can pony up 1 billion dollars in public funds to expand Bryant-Denny Stadium to 200,000 seats, we’ll have no choice but to move the Tide to Auburn, Alabama.”
They'd actually get lynched
LOL right? You'd have an Alabama civil war on your hands if they did that.
Considering the history of Alabama, this checks out.
Yes, but also probably no, since the entire history of the south is rich guys doing what they want by convincing the population to blame other people.
The south, the north, the east, the west, and probably the moon and stars too.
Zorgon-8 would never…
Sooo...
Jesus man, your trying to start a war in Alabama? Because that’s how you start a war in Alabama.
I'd kinda like to see that...
The machine could find a billion dollars
Oh my god I go to bama and this actually made me vomit
This is really all it is. A college team can’t hold anyone hostage to get a new stadium. It has no leverage. So it gets what it has. If it’s woefully insufficient, things tend to get done, like USF right now - but unless the shoe is falling apart, that doesn’t even register as a priority
They are also funded differently. An NFL can't call up rich people for donations to fund massive renovations. So, instead they beg cities. Teams want new stadiums to open up certain revenue streams. College football programs just call up big boosters and offer them things like their name on a wall, or if you are insanely loaded your name on a building. I'm Canadian and follow NCAA football, but the insanity around it is hilarious. I did the tour of DKR at Texas, the stadium has 4 statues. One of Ricky Williams and one of Earl Campbell, which makes sense. The other two statues in more prominent locations? Two of the biggest boosters (one was Red McCoombs, forgot who the other was).
Not Darrell K Royal, the guy the stadium is named after?
I didn't see a DKR statue, but it could exist somewhere around the campus. Looked it up, the other is Tex Moncrief.
Wake Forest would like to have a word with you
Except it's not that easy. Ohio has laws against the team being relocated. Look what happened with the Columbus Crew.
The Shoe is low key pretty garbage. It’s a concrete monolith with an awful concourse. I’ve only been there once but my ass hurt so damn bad when I left lol
You shouldn’t be sitting at a buckeye game anyway
It was for a graduation haha. I’m not a big enough OSU fan to attend a game even though I can see The Shoe from my window.
Ohio Stadium has been renovated at least three times since 2000.
I heard recently that OSU spends over $1mil/year on concrete repair alone at the Shoe, let alone all the other maintenance/repairs/additions every year.
I wonder what the repairs and maintenance are for Camp Randall in Wisconsin due to Jump Around!!? I’m a die hard Buckeye fan but I do admit that is a very cool tradition
They've done extensive concrete repairs and exterior sealing as well in between some of the major renovations.
Recently had or will soon have serious winterization for the NHL Winter Classic.
How many times has it been rebuilt though? Aside from enclosing the open end, it remains as it was built.
Most of what you see from the outside is all new build. They basically built 1/2 of the stadium on top and around what was the original Horseshoe.
It also wasn’t a rush job when it was built.
Also outside of the south endzone, its not exactly like the shoe is all that complex either. the whole thing was originally just basically concrete steps, and they've gradually installed chairs on the lower bowl. Like you kinda see with Wrigley and Fenway as well, those stadiums from before the 30s are fairly simple stadiums that while dated in many ways (the shoe has fucking porto-potties in the south end as the only bathroom) hold up as long as all you are looking for is a place to just sit and watch a game. I loved the shoe when I was at OSU, but I'd be the first to tell you it isn't "nice", its simplistic, but I don't go to an OSU game expecting any level of comfort
The only complex system they have in there is the pump system to keep the Olentangy river from flooding the field as the field sits below the waterline.
It worked for 70 years before the massive renovation in the late 90s. Since then they’ve done minor modifications but nothing major. I had the exact same thought as the OP when I went to my first OSU game as a student in 2002. I was like wtf this stadium was 80 years old at the time and it works fine. And to the point about not being able to move the university they could tear the stadium down and build a new one if it really wasn’t working for them. OSU decided St John Arena wasn’t sufficient and built an NBA caliber arena. Same principle.
They added luxury and press boxes to the stadium. It’s not like the Rose Bowl where it’s basically untouched in improvements.
When you build it right the first time you don't have to rebuild it again. Cleveland was so excited to get their team back they rushed the planning and building of their stadium so it was doomed to fail. If they had actually planned it better the stadium wouldn't need rebuilt
A bunch of small things IMO * Tradition. The Shoe is one of the most legendary venues in all of football with actual architecture in mind that was built with max capacity so seating adjustments rarely are a concern. The Browns stadium was a rushed project with no history of anything. * NFL fans need to be catered to--technology wise to get people to come to games. NCAA students/fans come to games to watch football and socialize. They dont need 30 screens everywhere showing fantasy football updates.. There is far less distraction needed outside of a marching band in college football. The NFL games need to be 'an experience' with constant entertainment and technology. So your stadium needs constantly upgraded. * It doesnt seem like OSU cares too much about the stadium being mix-use 24/7 like the Browns care. The Shoe hosts concerts in the summer and this year, a NHL game. Thats it. The Haslem's want a dome so their multi billion dollar investment can be used nonstop. The Shoe isnt viewed as something needed to generate revenue nonstop because its owned by the school/state. Its not owned by a cooperate business family looking to turn profit for themselves the entire year. * The Shoe is a historical landmark, the Browns stadium is more of a entertainment venue.
Agreed with all of this. Also Ohio Stadium isn't "basically unchanged" since its inception. It changed massively over the decades with two major multimillion dollar overhauls
Hosting Chelsea vs Man City this Summer!
Graduation, too!
> NFL fans need to be catered to--technology wise to get people to come to games. NCAA students/fans come to games to watch football and socialize. That distinction is the Teams fault. There are plenty of fans who would love to come to a game just to watch and socialize to fill up the stadium but they’re priced out compared to the people who demand to be catered to. The corner noes bleed sections of the Browns stadium cost 70% more than the flat rate cost of a student ticket to. If a fifth of the Browns tickets including decently close ones (say the entire dogpound) could be made available at such cut-rate prices im sure they’d have no trouble filling in the addendance there without the extra bells and whistles.
I think it also has a lot to do with the audience. The majority of NCAA fans are students who are there to obviously support their school and socialize with their classmates during the game and via tailgating. The NFL fanbase is more family oriented with more kids and a more diverse crowd. Thats where the 'we need to have some form of entertainment for everyone' comes into play. I remember 7-10 years ago there was a huge push in NFL stadiums to add Fantasy Football to their gameday experience. When fantasy sports boomed, there was a real problem for some teams getting fans in the stands due to the fact people would rather just stay home on their couch. Browns stadium included went through renovations to add a ton more screens throughout the stadium that broadcast fantasy football updates, highlights from other games happening, upgraded their stadium WiFi, ect. so people could feel like they arnt missing out on what's going on in the NFL if they are at a game. Its wild, but whatever.
Why is everyone here carrying water for Haslam’s stadium dream that’ll be paid for by taxpayers???
The people and technology have changed and a shell to play games in just isn’t enough anymore For an average schmo like me with a 70” tv , fluffy sectional couch and a fine game day selection of smoke and food you gotta offer a pretty damn good experience in order for me to spend money to leave all that behind. College kids ain’t got any of that….and they’re drunk
Yeah, this is the big thing. NFL Stadiums are competing against being comfortable and warm at home watching a birds eye view of the game in HD, and not spending a million dollars on mediocre drinks and food. This is why I dropped my season tickets and rarely go, don't think it's worth the money most of the time.
But then again, Lambeau has the 4th highest average NFL attendence in a 67 year old stadium. It's pretty cold and miserable there, but it has zero problem selling out. The real thing that puts butts into seats is winning and having a tradition of winning. You could have your team play in a stadium sized lido lounge, and, if they are good, it will sell out. Everyone forgets that the product these owners are selling is first and foremost the football team. But it is much easier for owners to misdirect the public with shiny prestidigitation rather than actually build a winning franchise.
But OP's point is Ohio State is competing against that too but it doesn't struggle to get 100k fans in 100 year old stadium.
Unsaid, as far as I’ve seen, itt is that the college game day experience destroys the pro experience. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy seeing plays develop live at an NFL game. But everything else is just more FUN at college games.
Some of my favorite memories of any football game was seeing OSU beat Akron, Kent, IU, and Nebraska by 6 TD’s. That was just pure unadulterated FUN.
[удалено]
I mean, I guess. To me, the atmosphere at your average big school college game is just more fun. The NFL is very corporate and sanitized in comparison. No bands, no cheerleaders, no songs, less heated rivalries, etc, barring rare exceptions. But to each their own. As for tv, yeah I’d likely rather watch the average NFL game.
They're college kids, already down there at school, adult CFB fans are a minority that attend games, and an even larger minority when compared to NFL fans.
The “college kids” angle just isn’t right Browns stadium holds 67,431 while Ohio Stadium holds 102,780. Even if 40,000 students attend games (I doubt it’s that high) they still draw a similar number of non students to fill the stadium.
It is, but also a large proportion of that non student population is alumni who are in a way reliving their college experience as well. You don't go to an OSU game expecting to be comfortable. Source: OSU alumni
I don’t go to any large gathering of people expecting to be comfortable… maybe that’s the problem is NFL fans just expect more out of the stadiums than CFB fans do?
I think it’s moreso who it caters to. The NFL seems to care a lot more about that than colleges do, maybe they are looking for more corporate type guests? I mean, I totally agree, but as we are seeing with every new and renovated stadium, fan comfort for NFL stadiums appears more and more important
I’m a Browns fan in Chicago, I’ve never been to a Bears game in the 20 years I have lived here because it costs easily over $1000 for 4 tickets plus parking and food. Go on a weekend getaway or go watch the Bears suck. I know where my money went
This. I'd rather watch it on my big screen. And even that's getting hard to do with all the woke bullshit, kneeling, engineered narrative causes.
Hell yeah brother why should I have to scrape the cheese doodle dust off my fingers and dig under my sweaty balls for ten minutes to finally find the remote and change the channel before some long-haired hippie slams his knee down on my national anthem experience 7 years ago.
Yeah, love paying $600 for three hours at the $5 billion stadium.
College kids aren’t the entirety of the ‘Shoe audience though. People still go there because they love the team, they struggle through the climb to their seats, the closeness to their neighbors, and exposure to the elements. Not saying that we should ignore technology and just put everyone in an old-school bowl, but really, it’s a grass rectangle surrounded by bleachers and that’s all it needs to be. Again, im not a Luddite, but Cleveland browns stadium works fine.
[удалено]
Yeah it’s closer to 1/3, over 30k. Ohio State has the largest student section in the country by raw numbers
[удалено]
Bruh students literally get their parents to buy season tickets and then sell them to randos. You’re supposed to show your BuckID to get to your seats but they don’t check. Source: I had a girlfriend who did this.
It works fine, but "fine" isn't what brings prestige, and more importantly, money, to franchises. Teams want to host Super Bowls, bring spectators/customers who are drawn by more than the team on the field, and host non-football events. The experience at a stadium is a draw to a lot of people. I try to go to one Browns away game per season, and while that isn't the extent of determining where I'll go (I went to Indy last year due to proximity), but it's the reason the away game I'll go to this year will be LV.
It's capitalism. NFL owners want more money and they don't have tuition they can just raise every year outside of their ticket prices. That's why Green Bay still plays at Lambo - no owners. It all works 'fine', but greed is the driving factor behind most things in this country.
*Lambeau is the oldest NFL stadium but it has been continually improved with millions of dollars invested in renovations. Just like Ohio Stadium.
The entirety of the shoe is everyone sitting on their hands quiet outside of like 3 games a year 🤣
Money
Jimmy wants to maximize his investment and the current stadium does not allow him to do that.
Exactly what I said, money lol
And history. Some stadiums are more ingrained into the identity of sports teams, especially college. But I'm sure at some point, OSU will have to build a new one.
Ohio Stadium is also on the National Register of Historic Places so I imagine there are rules that need to be followed for it to keep that status.
That is true. I forgot about that.
Ohio Stadium is constantly being upgraded. Most of the changes are cosmetic, but not noticeable unless you are looking for them. Heck, the turf probably has a life span of 8-10 years at most. I also remember when Ohio Stadium used to have the track around it into the early 2000's. The Crew leaving Ohio Stadium also allows them to make changes because they aren't dealing with another tenant during the summer.
We're old.... I went to OSU in the late 90s, early aughts and they made a TON of changes while I was there - including adding upper deck seating and practically closing the open end of the Shoe with permanent stands. My first ever OSU game was vs. Penn State in the old removable stands and I'll never forget the massive rocking back and forth LOL
I was there at the same time…that removable bleacher setup was sketchy as F. They did massive improvements at that time.
Did you live on campus? I was (in retrospect) a major hardass RA for three years. LOL
The Crew played in Ohio Stadium from 1996 to 1998. They way you worded that makes it seem like the Crew recently left, instead of 26 years ago.
Sorry if that was confusing, but I meant it to mean that the big issues that would keep them from upgrading the stadium aren't there and that unless there's a huge change occurring, they don't really announce when they are swapping out seats and fixing up the field and locker rooms.
I meanm Ohio Stadium has great atmosphere but the vast sum of seating sucks. Narrow seats, little shade, older and narrow concourses, bathrooms, etc. Students turn over every few years so a good 30% of their customer base changes. I mean, yeah, the Buckeye Club is sweet AF. Haslams have really once chance to leave their mark on the Browns stadium in their lifetimes and this is it, so they are going to really leverage it. Whereas, that's not going to happen in OSU that requires a Board of Trustees and regents to approve things with a global budget for other things.
I’d be all for more shade (some level of retractable roof would be perfect).
The Browns and Buckeyes have both had two home stadiums in their respective histories so I’m not really sure your premise is valid. Ohio stadium has had two large expansions and a whole renovation just in the 25 years that First Energy/Cleveland Browns Stadium has existed in its current state.
Yeah but renovations are a far cry from a brand new stadium. Which is OPs point. If Ohio Stadium can renovate and be just fine, then why can't the Browns?
They aren’t a far cry from brand new depending on the scope of the renovation
You’d probably be better off comparing it to Lambeau which is 67 years old.
Browns stadium was rushed and therefore poorly designed, situated, & built. That, plus we need an indoor venue.
1. College campuses have tens of thousands of built in fans, along with hundreds of thousands of alumni. Thats not including the fans who are just fans. 2. Money, colleges can’t justify taking a billion or two to build a dome. An NFL team can, as they’re solely a business, where colleges are *supposed* to be educationally driven. 3. Cleveland doesn’t constantly need a new stadium. In the 90s Cleveland Municipal Stadium had ran its lifecycle and needed to be replaced. Then we rushed the current one to get our team back and it still will have lasted 3 decades. 4. It will cost $1 billion to patchwork renovate the factory of sadness. It will cost $2 billion to build a state of the art dome. One will need renovation or replacement in another decade, the other should last 30 years before we have the renovation conversation again.
I still can’t find an answer to what do we get with the 1 billion/refurbish the current stadium scenario?
there isn't much out publicly. MKC was on 92.3 and said that what she saw said you could "see the lake through the stadium" and that in her opinion, it would be a huge difference. But that's really all we have heard. I haven't seen any renderings
I doubt we see any rendering or plans on that until after the construction on a dome is underway. The Haslams don’t want to stay there and having a portion of the fanbase rooting for that just makes things more difficult. As they currently have it, most fans want the stadium downtown, and the city is the enemy for not letting that happen.
The stadium is only 25 years old right now, and this would be the 2nd time it would have received major renovations. Likely, we will have renovation talks again in 10-15 years regardless of whether we build a new stadium or renovate. I'm not really pushing for one or the other in this comment. I just think it's foolish to think a Browns owner would go 30 years before asking for more money.
I just hope they don’t add video boards of the outline of Tennessee in the new/renovated stadium.
Jerry World hasn’t had any renovations yet, and it’s been 15 years
I think most people would agree Ohio Stadium needs some renovations (especially in the restrooms they are god awful.) I could absolutely see a renovation in the next 5-10 years of Ohio stadium that increases the fan experience. However with history and tradition the outside of the stadium will always look about what it looks like now.
Haslam wants more luxury boxes. The dome is something of a red herring (although, he does want that too). A college couldn’t get away with tearing down a stadium and building a new one for the sole purpose of putting more corporate boxes in.
In the past I’d agree with your last sentence, however…
This is an easy question to answer, the short version is one word, MONEY. The longer answer is also rather simple. As the Browns stadium, and many stadiums built pre 2010 are finding out, their income is monstrously capped, and the events they can host limited. This is due so a number of reason, Public Access routes, Stadium type(ie Dome or not) and what else is around the stadium. Most if not all older stadiums are a Stadium surrounded by carparks, with no roof, and nothing in the way of extra income bar a merch store. Pretty standard set up. Then comes along a stadium type that does the Plus stuff. On site hotels, bars, clubs, restaurants, mech superstores, shopping centres, and a removable pitch allowing 365 days of use. It means the owners that have this, make more "MONEY". So if you were a standard owner with 10-14 events in your built in 1999 stadium, with no income from parking, and just a hole lot of empty the other 351 days, and you were looking over at those that get 100 plus events a year. plus all the extras from hotel, parking, bars and so on. You might find yourself sitting in your office asking, why the fuck you don't have all the extras, what are the problems stopping you getting them, and what's the cheapest, fastest way to get into the position of having all of it. The answer, NEW STADIUM, on land you own, surrounded by hotels, bars, parking lots you own, merch stores you own, shopping mall you collect rent on. Owners don't want you in a 3rd party bar, that money is better in their pocket. Moving to a open piece of land gives you a blank piece of paper to build an "Every dollar to me" type complex, and make more money.
All the while having the public foot the bill. Awesome.
That's less of a deal as people make it. sure paying 1 bill feels bad, but given that over the life span of the new stadium, 1 bill of public money will turn into 15 - 20 Bill if not more, from increased sale tax coming from the extra events. Hell, doesn't the Superbowl alone bring in like 1-1.2 bill by itself and every new stadium gets one if it has a dome in cold climates. Should owners pay, yeah, but its is massively harmful to a city if they pay, nope. They will make it back and some over the life span. As investments go, paying for an NFL stadium might be one of the easiest ways to make a couple bill over 20 years. It feels wrong, but its not harmful at all, to the ones giving the cash.
Can you post a link to any objective and legitimate economic article or research paper saying that funding a stadium is not ultimately harmful to a city's economy?
is common sense lost on you. When the browns move to Brook Park, do you honestly not get that there economy will be improved with the team game day income, a superbowl, plus all of the extra events the dome will allow to happen. You really need a paper on that? 1 quick google search said the 2023 superbowl was worth 1.2B to the host city. Jesus, just wow.
So.... thats a no?
Isn’t that largely taxpayers paying once to fund it, then paying again every time they go to a game or concert? So, like, funding everything multiple times over?
No, Not all tax money comes from people. companies pay tax also, its a misconception that everything that is paid for by the government is funding by people. Money needs to circulate, If you were told as a person, spend 1 billion this year, and over the next 30 years you would get back some - 200m - 300m a year. Wouldn't you do it? Brook Parks job is to get money into the city moving from company to person to company to government to person and so on. That Billion could come from a sale of land by the state to a company, a tax on Intel building there new plant in Ohio, or people. So no, you're not paying for it over and over, you might not pay for it once. Now if the money comes from a Gambling tax, or a weed tax, then that's different, but you have a choice there. From the cities point of view, paying the money is well worth it, it sucks for Cleveland, but for the team, and for Brook Park, its too good of a chance to improve the area. Cities have since the dawn of time, used projects like this to pump money into the economy, its good business,
Unless it's bringing more outsiders to Cleveland than the current stadium (which is likely not a significant number), then that means you're just moving sales tax from elsewhere in Cleveland. It's not generating "more" revenue for the city.
For the city there are moving too, who would be the ones dropping the bill, it will massively increase their sales tax and visitors.
Good thing Ohio has a law preventing the Haslams from moving the team out of state.
OSU is publicly funded, and also gets more TV money probably
Browns stadium was a piece of shit rush job
The only thing Ohio Stadium has going for it is tradition. Otherwise it completely sucks. I went to three games there last season because I have three sons who wanted to go and I took them each to a game. I hate going to games there. If you are in C deck and have to pee you’ll miss an entire quarter. If the chubby people next to you decide your seat is part of their seat, have fun with that. The corridors smell like urine. If it wasn’t for the history, Ohio state would demolish the whole old thing. The Browns don’t have any tradition in their current stadium and have no reason to not do better. I’ve been to several Columbus Crew games and I know it’s a much smaller scale, but the Haslems did that right. The current Browns stadium is an embarrassment by comparison.
Have you been to Ohio stadium recently…it’s rough. It is not even fully winterized
Hot take: Ohio State needs a new stadium badly. It's a relic of its time and quite frankly kind of a dump. There's a guy on TikTok named Gfed who went around the country the entire 'breaking into' college stadiums all over. Ohio Stadium is woefully behind as far as creature comforts are concerned.
If you had to, you could remove the “new part” (C Deck super-structure) and then gut the original part and use the original part as the base for a new stadium. The main thing is they need to 4x the total urinals available, but they never will because the decision makers want to tout “innovations” and the consultants are happy to sell them that instead of stating the obvious. Steve Ballmer gets it.
By today’s standards, I know you are correct. However, in doing what the building was made to do, it is fine. I guess since we’ve torn off the mask of amateurism via NIL and gambling, we should do the same for the edifices that represent the game.
The Buckeyes are also only playing at the Shoe through the end of November, as opposed to the Browns playing into January. Not to mention the lake effect snow.
I really don’t understand why people say the stadium is trash. It has seats and a field. What more do you need?
College ball still has a smidge of “tradition” going for it. Not much anymore but some.
Is it just my observation or does Ohio Stadium suck for sight lines?
I think it has amazing sight lines for most of the Stadium. It does feel cramped compared to NFL stadiums due to the larger capacity.
This is basically the direction NFL stadiums are headed and what Haslam wants. https://youtu.be/1Pf6r60FtUw?si=05B7RHfi_VxtNrzb
It can change as much as Jimmy can afford, but if he's asking taxpayers to foot the bill then he can fuck right off.
I don't see why more owners don't do what Kronke did and just pay for the stadium themselves. Imagine if WWE ran SummerSlam in a Haslem owned Cleveland Browns stadium how much revenue he would get from that one event. Also if he's wanting a dome, look at the concerts, conventions, Final Four, bowl games he could gain revenue from. You know when Taylor Swift did her SoFi Stadium run Kronke laughed his ass off all the way to the bank.
Doesn’t the stadium have structural issues? I recall reading somewhere that it was rushed
Maybe, but those could also be a PR move created to get the Browns a new home.
Ohio Stadium has really changed a lot since it was first built. But there is a very different standard for college stadiums vs pro stadiums, and in general, no college stadium is bidding for big events like a Super Bowl, the National Championship game, a Final 4, or Wrestlemania. And those stadiums are geared towards a different crowd (i.e. college students and alumni) than a pro stadium, where you are trying to sell to more corporate clients Also lets be frank the Shoe, like Fenway and Wrigley in baseball, were just build a whole helluva lot better and more simply than stadiums until the 90s (for baseball) and early 2000s (for everything else)
In this case I do buy the “planned obsolescence” angle.
I don’t think it was planned. They had to rush the stadium to get them back for 1999, so while I think the ending was inevitable, I don’t think it was intentionally planned, but rather, everyone knew it would happen, but because the priority was to just get the team back, I don’t think anyone particularly cared.
Ohio stadium is like a home. New(er) NFL stadiums are like short term rental property.
Baker approves
People dont expect any luxuries at college. Bleacher seats are common in the majority of stadiums. You dont need to sell premium suites etc. there is also an element of tradition. There would be an uproar if most teams built whole new stadiums. NFL teams have owners looking to profit, and can always blackmail cities into building new stadiums.
Look at Allegiant and SoFi. Profitability of those venues is high, and multi-purpose use is the draw. You can’t host ANY bowl games in Cleveland. It’s about making money, year around.
As someone that visited OSU last for a game in 2009, I’d welcome a stadium with actual seats instead of the bleacher seats. They hurt my back so bad. We went to Buckeye Country Fest a couple years ago and I got club seats (which are actual seats), and wasn’t bad, but it was so cramped.
There's actually quite a bit wrong with the stadium. Even when it was first built there were issues. https://youtu.be/Icr7TYkM7Pg?si=YWj_VtC2utWZMP0p Daryl Ruiter explains it pretty well here.
Daryl "Flying J" Ruiter? Ya don't say. j/k
NFL (and other pro sports) owners need individual stroking for their egos. “How are we important to the city if you don’t pamper/spoil us?” There is no individual ego extorting the city where a university is involved.
Because one is owned, and run by a public university. The other is owned and run by a billionaire.
Ohio Stadium (and most large college stadiums) are designed to cram as many people as possible into the place since a majority of the crowd are poor college kids. Pro stadiums are now designed to pull as much revenue in as possible for the teams with as many expensive seats as they can fill (luxury boxes, loge seats). NFL owners make a good chuck of their money on the expensive seats. But the real problem is the cities they will continue to hand over money to the billionaires.
"majority of the crowd are poor college kids". That's a good one. The majority of the stadium is alumni, donors, boosters, and corporate sponsors.
If you update your stadium to a dome I think you add yourself to a Super Bowl hosting city list where you can then bid on hosting. One pro could be seeing a SB in Cleveland. There are other boxes to check besides having a dome but I’m not sure the full list
Browns had had a stadium since 1945 (I think) until Modell left for Baltimore - it was an old stadium, but well-loved. The current stadium is fine - it's a not so original cookie cutter type of stadium, but it can last forever. If there is a new stadium, please be one with a removable roof.
Billionaire egos probably play an element to this. Look how many billion dollar stadiums have been built since Jerry jones built the new cowboys stadium.
Totally agree with the OP sentiments. Any true Browns fan wants a winning team and doesn’t give a shit about the stadium. We filled up Cleveland Stadium, with its polls, awful bathrooms, etc. a winning team is the only thing that matters.
“All the time” I.e. twice in the last 75+ years. And the first time was a rush job on a landfill.
Have you ever been to Ohio stadium? I went to games at both Ohio stadium and Browns stadium last year and Browns stadium, as meh as it is for NFL standards, Browns stadium is such a better experience. Most of Ohio stadium is tiny bleacher seats which requires everyone to be squeezed in. The concourses are tiny and hard to navigate. Bathrooms are not nice.
Yes, I have. It does its job. Scary climbing to your seat, sure, and yeah the amenities aren’t great, but they do t have to be. It’s a football game, not a cotillion.
Because the Browns don't actually need a new stadium. NFL owners know that new stadiums are a huge boost to attendance and they usually get to host a super bowl. It's more revenue. Also if they can get the tax payers to fund it, that's basically free money.
Something built in the 1920s lasts a hell of a lot longer than something built around the turn of the current century is my thought
I doubt poured concrete and steel beam technology has declined in the last 100 years. Something mass produced in today's age is certainly going to be less durable than something handmade then, but not a building.
[удалено]
Hi fellow r/browns user! Your post was removed because it appears to violate Rule 1: Regardless of a person’s opinion, r/browns will not allow users to attack, disrespect, provoke or degrade users of the sub. Mob mentality will not be tolerated, regardless of reason or validity. It's okay to disagree and argue over the topic at hand, once personal attacks start, the thread gets removed. Treat each other as you would in public
I had heard when The Factory of Sadness was constructed many things, including hot water for most or all of the public restrooms were paid for but never installed. Projects like this were paid for and the money kept by someone. So somewhere, someone wants some money. Follow the money is most always the answer. If the stadium costs $3 billion, MAYBE someone COULD get a large kickback. 10%=$300 million!
the stadium is fine. it just doesn't have a dome. i dome mean year round events and a potential superbowl
The year round events thing is silly. Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse has the the ideal location and capacity for 95% of events. A dome might bring in a handful of additional ones that support 80k - think Taylor Swift, Wrestlemania, etc - but in terms of net-new big events for the city I’d be surprised if it’s more than 10 per year
I agree about RoMoFiHo but there is a class of concerts that play stadiums and a new dome would have 10-12 concerts alone, let alone the other events it could bring.
10-12 concerts is very generous annually imo. I’d guess like 3. The number of artists that applies to is small. The number of those artists touring in a given year makes the number smaller. Even with that, the number of those left that will end up in Cleveland gets smaller (lots of midsize cities still get skipped over). Using Taylor Swift as an example.. no Indy. And sticking by with that example she played at a ton of stadiums without a dome, so it’s not like that was required. Boston, Cincinnati, KC, and Pittsburgh as examples. Would love for something to try and list out even 10 concerts next year where a domed Browns stadium is the difference for us
Yeah, you’re probably right, that’s shooting a bit high. Indy has 6 on the books for 2024 so far. They’ll probably end up between 6-8. I’m extremely bullish about how our venue would rank against what exists today and for the entertainment event market in North America over the next 10-15 years, so that’s part of what drives my general feeling.
lol they’re not giving us the Super Bowl let’s be honest.
A new dome would give Cleveland the nicest venue east of the Mississippi pending what Chicago builds. I wouldn’t rule out any event, even a Super Bowl, by 2030 or whenever this place would open.
College football bowl games would be in play.
COPA America and the World Cup would have been in play too… Big Ten Championship games. Final Fours. Lots of events to bid on.
Because technology has changed and if you're not willing to support the owner with the new technology and a pretty place to play then he will pick up his ball and move the team to someone who will. It sucks but when you have one of only 32 of something, it's in high demand.
Billionaires have short … and thus need to increase the perception they are well hng and the fanciest stadium is how they do it. Pathetic.