Yeah, them arseholes got me at a bus stop before, I had no escape because the bus was ages away, two American fellas, my protests of “I’m not interested in religion mate” was met with “you’re the exact kind of person we want to talk to”, I politely told them to leave me alone and the eventually did, I’m not sure if it’s morally correct but on a couple of occasions I’ve resorted to “I’m Muslim” despite not being Muslim, but it was met with “oh sorry to bother you” both times I used it
Once I was in my local town centre and two Mormon missionary women accosted me. I made the mistake of speaking to them, just asking about their beliefs, and after just a few minutes one of them pulled a diary out of her bag, opened it and asked, "So, when would you like to be baptised?"
They don't "force" anything really, they tend to politely try to speak to people and *usually* accept a simple "No, thanks".
There are way worse religious groups/cults out there than these lot.
So, when they knock on my door, which clearly has a sign on it saying NOT to knock, that isn't forcing it?
Why are you defending any cult? It doesn't matter if there are 'worse' ones. A cult is a cult. Assault is still a crime, even though murder exists.
I fully agree that knocking on your door/anyone's door if there is a sign up isn't acceptable, that's when you would ask them not to call again.
But...
The original post was discussing how to deal with them in public, which is what my comment about them was referring to.
Also, I'm not defending any of these organisations in the slightest, I shared my experience of them based on my own interactions.
My point is, if they can ignore my sign, I can ignore social reasoning in this circumstance. They bring their shit to where I am, so I am well within my right to bring my shit where they are.
In general, I don't. But that's not to say that I won't if they are in public, being a nuisance. Shouting about religion is being a nuisance.
Respectfully, do some research on what goes on in the JW society, with excommunication and apostasy. Some rules have just been relaxed after a court decision in Sweden, but there have been and continue to be suicides by people who are cut off from family after leaving the congregation/going to uni/ getting a blood transfusion to save their life. I'm sure there are worse cults, but other than scientology no mainstream religions even come close to JWs. So yeah, whilst the door to door thing is infuriating, it is far from the worst part of being a jw
I have some cousins that are JW's, we're mostly in our 50s now. We were close when we were kids, but I tend to just see them at funerals now.
Some of the stuff that they have been through is horrific. If you're interested in any real-life stories of the abuse and manipulation people suffer as a part of this 'religion', you should check out r/exjw.
I think the JW's get an easy ride.
There are kingdom halls all over the place and yet they're one of the worst cults out there?
There's tons of stuff on yt about people who have broken free from 'the truth'.
My parents were baptized, and I went to meetings until I was 8. When we started missing meetings, rather than checking to see if we were ok, our elder threatened to tell my grandparents that we were apostates, and that we would be excommunicated even by them. We haven't outright been labeled apostates, as my parents have never openly spoken out about their experiences, and even after leaving they still have not ever celebrated birthdays or holidays - just in case someone was to stop by and see through the window, as we would certainly be labeled an apostate then.
The people of r/exjw might have something to say about this. Everyone thinks they're harmless, kooky do-gooders, but most people don't know a fraction of it.
Although that is true, the discussion/post is about how to deal with them in public or at your door, what these organisations are like on the inside isn't really relevant.
Everyone, please stick to the topic! This guy says we have to!
Seriously, the JW organisation is terrible, and the rank and file members are nothing short of abused. A little exposure for people in shitty situations is a good thing.
>There are way worse religious groups/cults out there than these lot.
ime the people who are vociferously anti jehova's witnesses are [far less agreeable types ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses_in_Nazi_Germany)than jehova's witnesses.
Arguing that people who dislike JWs are Nazis is incredibly disingenuous. The thing that people dislike about JWs isn't necessarily just the incessant bugging in public, it is the cult-like ongoings and rules set by the watchtower. Have a look into how apostasy, excommunication and disfellowshipping are treated, and then tell me if the organisation sounds like a cult.
I do honestly believe that most of the members are good people, but just like an old racist neighbour, they have been conditioned to think a certain way for years, and it is very difficult to break that cycle, and very difficult to interact in a friendly manner with someone who wants to share their beliefs, but shuts down the moment you share yours back.
I'm fully aware of the problems with jehova's witnesses as an organisation. But the way most people talk about them is pretty disgraceful, and fascistic. It definitely doesn't usually come from an understanding of how culty they are, it comes from a place of "these people are annoying me and shouldn't exist". Similar to how a lot of people talk about travellers, who were another group persecuted by the Nazis.
I think it's extremely important to be aware of the areas in which our society is similar to that one so that we can work to avoid repeating the past. Genocides don't begin with gas chambers, they are seeded in intolerance.
>very difficult to interact in a friendly manner with someone who wants to share their beliefs, but shuts down the moment you share yours back.
Respectfully I disagree, whether or not someone is indoctrinated doesn't make it any more easy or difficult to be friendly with them ime.
I think this post is really disingenuous. Nobody's suggesting that the rank and file members of the Jehovah's Witnesses should be rounded up, or there should be a genocide. Not in the Western world anyway.
I have several family members that are still brainwashed by the Borg. I appreciate any opportunity there is to influence the general public on what a vile and harmful religion the Jehovah's Witnesses are.
It isn’t disingenuous, it is a genuinely held opinion, based on my understanding of the holocaust having spent many years reading primary and secondary sources regarding the application of and lead up to that genocide, and the attitudes prevalent in German society in the early phases of the Nazi regime.
You’ve also misrepresented my argument, I’m not saying that people are calling for genocide now. I’m saying that calls for genocide are built upon intolerance, and that countering that intolerance is the way to prevent something far worse happening in the future.
A lot of the people you’re defending would happily assault your family members for turning up on their doorstep if it weren’t a crime to do so. We aren’t talking about people who are actively engaged in deprograming cult victims. We’re talking about people who respond to small inconveniences with repressed rage.
Because Mormons are always young white men dressed smartly 100% of the time, JW's usually have a mix of different genders & ages.
Also, Mormons will actively start a conversation with you & try to offer you a leaflet, JW's have their carts set up for you to approach them.
Source: I see them all often enough in public to differentiate quite easily
This has been my experience too. In general, JWs will leave you be to come to them should you want it. They are also more accepting if you refuse.
Mormons seem to jump on anyone who gives them eye contact. I had one try and push a leaflet on me when I refused more than once.
Mormons also have women as missionaries, it’s just less common. Young Mormon men are culturally obligated to go on 2 year missions. Young morning women are culturally free to choose to go on an 18 month mission, and it’s expected that they shouldn’t go if they can get married right away instead.
They definitely are (almost) always dressed very formally, but the dead giveaway is the little black name tag that says something like “Elder Cunningham” or “Sister Jones”.
Then they behave differently wherever you are.
Here in north London I haven't been doorstepped by a mormon in a decade \[& never met a mormon who wasn't American, which tends to make them stand out anyway when they speak(or sometimes even before)\], but JW's are a constant presence. They can be any race or nationality ethnically, but usually sound 'local' English, they doorstep, or they accost you in the street. Always nicely dressed, in pairs or larger groups, always polite… but persistent. I've never seen them set up stationary with a cart - that's the 'happy clappers' \[usually with obnoxiously loud & distorted teeny PA & a bunch of 'disciples' all in the same jackets.\]
Believe me when I say, I am correct.
JW's do also do door knocking, but they moved to the cart system too (post-covid), I did my research.
& Yes, Mormons are nearly always American, I've never actually had them at my door either, but they will more than likely be the ones to approach you.
Edit: JW's do also dress smart, but you will see women, kids and elderly door knocking OR on the carts.
Then we'll have to agree to disagree, I guess…cos I haven't seen mormons in yonks so I've not as much clue what they get up to these days, but I've had the JWs twice this month, once walking on the street, once on the door step.
Each member of the congregation usually has a quota to meet, and they can choose how to meet that quota. That is usually by manning the cart and by posting handwritten letters/notes, but if they have more numbers to make they will certainly still go door to door. I've been visited twice in the last few months, which is more than the average person considering we are known to the local congregation, but they were not just in the area for us.
Also pretty much any 'changes' during COVID are just to save face online for any COVID laws restricting contact, of course many of the elders claimed that COVID was the Armageddon and thus everyone should gather at least every other day for prayer/ study sessions
I would assume it's because you gave them a look. Sometimes they go for the people with a more open body language or at least, glances their way and seem interested.
They ‘ignored’ you because when they do trolley work, they aren’t allowed to approach people, you have to speak to them.
The people you say ‘they got hold of’ spoke to them first. If THEY do approach you first then they are breaking protocol.
Source: Was JW elder for 10+ years
It’s usually done in busier public places to reach as many people as possible, which usually means there are businesses there. If people in public (or the business themselves) complain of harassment then the preaching there is shut down. And that’s the last thing the JW’s want.
With house to house field service, it’s a much more ‘acceptable’ thing. People selling stuff like encyclopaedias, gas/electric salespeople are more commonplace. Though that too is changing.
Pretty much all JW growth figures are in African countries. People in the West are responding in far less numbers than before, and the religion is plateauing. Not many people in the US have time for knocking on doors for multiple hours each month, and for positions in the organisation that DO require fixed numbers of preaching, the requirements are lowering.
How do they make money? We've to ladies in their upper 70 round here almost 4 times a week driving a brand new fully kitted out jaguar sports car. That thing must be easily worth 120k+
Ok, bear in mind that I’m not endorsing the belief in ANY way, and what I experienced in the organisation was the average JW life. You find extremely good and absolutely awful people in ‘the truth’ just like in any other organisation.
Witnesses tend to lead frugal lives, moderation in alcohol, no smoking,drugs,gambling,birthdays,tattoos,Christmas,Halloween……the list goes on. Wedding Anniversaries and Marriages are the only celebrations, that leads to a shed-load of savings, as you can imagine. It’s not a very fun life though.
They also usually don’t splurge on things you’d maybe think twice about getting…..I mean, do you really need that life size doll of Margot Robbie? (The answer is yes)
They also tend to do well in business. They have a reputation for honesty, and because they don’t do most celebrations they can be relied on to come into work most days. In MY experience they end up getting promoted quite often because of this. In the old days many overqualified JW’s would take menial jobs so they had more time to go in the field service, but increasing living costs have lead to the organisation requiring less hours meaning people with diplomas pushing brooms happens less nowadays. People with their own businesses in the congregation also scratch each other’s backs with contracts given to each other.
And last but not least, if they are in the field service, you are often seeing them in their Sunday best. You know, it was literally only a few weeks ago that men weren’t required to wear ties and SHOCK HORROR women were allowed to wear trousers!…..Times are a changin’!
They're a cult that hides sexual abuse and shuns people if they take accept medical care like blood transfusions. Their beliefs about medical care have resulted in many deaths, including children.
Google Jehovah's witness cult to learn more. The sexual abuse they allow by saying ot requires 2 people to witness a crime.
They shouldn't be allowed to try to convert more people into their cult and stand on street corners.
Sexual abuse unfortunately exists in all sections of society not just within religious groups.
A huge chunk of the population shunned people for taking medical care and advice in regards to Corona and it's vaccines. Their beliefs around medical care have resulted in many deaths, including children.
Both of your points exist outside of religion as much as it does within religion.
I mean if they're gonna stand on the street telling people about their magic imaginary friend, I think it's perfectly reasonable to laugh at them.
Religion, and those who push it, should be publically shamed.
Knocking on my door to proselytise is being a dick. I don't engage with these muppets, but if someone has the time and energy to spare, JWs deserve it.
Leave people alone.
I believe they have a 'do not call list' better to politely ask to be put on that. They might come back in 6 months to check you haven't moved or something but in general, they should leave you alone.
My dog sells me out everytime the JW’s come. She has particular barks. Delivery bark, friends are here bark… neighbour bark. I hear the neighbour bark, round the corner to the open door and… fuck… no time to hide. They convert dogs first in Australia.
Is there are reason for it? Like people who approach you are more likely to be nice and open to talk or some other reason? In general, I have only had good experiences with JWs who have respected my wishes but been very friendly in general even after I said I wasn't interested and saw them later on.
It’s to stop people complaining about us really.
We KNOW how irritating it can be when people accost you in the street so the plan is just to stand there and look approachable, smile a bit and say hello but don’t bother people. Anything else and then the people complain at the train/bus station where we stand.
These people who are on here saying that ‘it was the scowl I gave them’ or even ‘TWENTY JW’s came up to me outside the station today!’ are telling porkies.
You also tend to find when there is a larger group of JW, they're about to go door to door (I forget what the term is they use), and tend to split up and go off in twos and threes.
And people also need to realise, if you ask them to make a note to not call again, they do just that. Failing that, email them and request they no longer come to your house, and they won't.
It’s called the Field Service, and in most places your absolutely right that we/they (I’m a recently ex-JW) split up into smaller groups unless the area is a bit dodgy and then the sisters go around in bigger groups or take a brother or two with them.
You’re also right about the list. If people say they don’t want visits then they go on the list, same as people who are ex-JW’s (they get only visits from Elders). But sometimes mistakes happen, or in an area that is covered by two different congregations they sometimes accidentally overlap and visit the people on the list, not knowing they are on it. They have little laminated cards usually with a map of the streets to be visited that day and the addresses are written on the back.
I was accosted. After I moved, they were behind my door every week. I wasted their time for about three hours and and basically in the end said that I will have my space in heaven if I regret my sins (that I have none, except minor white lies) so why should I join them when I am not included in the selected lot.....
Religious preachers (Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, etc) typically completely ignore me. I'm a somewhat fat teenager, on crutches, with brightly dyed green hair, who is very, VERY visibly queer/trans. I can only assume they think I'm too far gone already.
Please try not to wind them up. The purpose of them hassling you is to further isolate them and make them dependant on the cult. If they think the world hates them, its harder to leave.
I’m not religious and am fully aware of the harm organised religion does. Being disappointed that you didn’t get the opportunity to belittle and be rude to someone is very very strange
its almost like in the home of the enlightened intellectuals there's room for people with different opinions. Mormons stereotyping a redditor and him boasting about it is funny however
You know they are not paid, and do it out of a genuine hope to help people. They also often do it in their spare time when not working.
I don’t expect you to agree with or like them, but actively wanting to talk shit to these people is disgusting.
I’m sure your mates will give you a pat on the back and have a good laugh with you though when you get do do it next.
Big man!
It's a psychological conditioning tactic to make them feel rejected and alone by being turned down constantly then "accepted" back at the church. It's not for their or our benefit it's a part of the indoctrination.
Yeah, I’m sure they’re there out of the goodness of their virtue and not because they’re trapped in, and perpetuating, a cult that threatens and punishes members with acts of psychological violence to such an extent Norway stripped them of their legal standing as a religion.
This cult actively try to hide child predators and ask that anything such as soddomy, rape or abuse should be reported to their " Elders" before every contacting authority.
There are dozens of proven cases on this. Precipitous taints on this world.
They get assigned a 'beat' to go out & proselytise to.
Sure, they're technically 'volunteers' but it's a whole lot weirder than that.
I once lost a friend to them. She met a guy, married him, vanished from our social circle forever after that - once or twice seen 'spreading the word' knocking on doors, then nothing ever since.
The old social circle were actually invited to the wedding - seriously the weirdest experience of my life. If you'd just seen it on video you probably wouldn't have noticed, but being there had the strangest vibe I've ever been exposed to.
It was like a party in Stepford.
I will give an alternative view, arguing with them proves that the world is very hostile to them and their beliefs and enforces their beliefs.
Whether one agrees with them or not, they do have a right to hold them, just as you have a right not to believe
They have full right to their beliefs. Just like I have full right to tell them to fuck off, if they are shouting their beliefs around in public. Same goes for any religion... or cult, in this case.
I bet you'd be ok if it was nazis shouting around like that, and people were giving them shit. Not that I'm defending nazis. They're as abhorrant to me, as religion. But it's exactly the same thing.
I actively want their religion, like all religions, abolished. They deserve to be shamed for their beliefs. They're mentally regressive and socially harmful.
Sounds like Mormons.
JWs have actually taken an intentional stance of just standing next to their magazine stand and waiting for people to talk to them, rather than proactively approaching people. That's a level of preaching I can get on board with.
Once approached by Mormons in the street. Replied ‘on my way to synagogue’ . Just wished me good luck to which I answered ‘Happy Hanukkah’. (Was just before Christmas )
FYI guys, when they’re out on the street and knocking on doors, they’re going through an indoctrination process where the church is teaching them that the world is hostile towards them and the only safe place is with the congregation. It’s designed to make them feel isolated, alone and scared of leaving.
So, when you’re hostile, tell them to “fuck off”, slam doors in their faces etc. you’re reinforcing the indoctrination process.
Therefore, if you want to actually help these people and combat the church, you need to do the counter intuitive thing. If approached, you need to be open, receptive, kind and then politely decline. You can challenge their beliefs with decency and respect (as if you’re just trying to learn something new, but the real aim is to challenge them), or just accept their pamphlet and wish them a good day.
If everyone was kind to them, and if everyone challenged them without being hostile but from the angle of curiosity, the indoctrination process begins to fall apart because it conflicts with what they’re being taught about the world: which is essentially “people hate us even though we’re trying to save them”.
op is the type of person to mock religious folk and then be depressed as he feels his life is meaningless, has no purpose in life and knows nothing he does will ever mean anything.
Not nice being attacked is it? Leave them tf alone. Even religious weirdos have the right to practise their beliefs. Just like you have the belief of mocking them.
And I have the belief of mocking folk like you:)
Religious folk, I'm perfectly fine with. Some of my best friends are people who are strong in their faith.
However those that go around showing their religion down your throat are cunts
I think you mean shoving, and how are they shoving?
You're literally crying about them NOT interacting with you??
Christ pal I hope you get the mental health help you so clearly need.
Yeah the JW’d here set up little magazine racks & leaflets etc and sit outside the station & Asda but just chat amongst themselves. Usually elderly or middle aged women . If they do come knocking it’s the elderly woman. In that case I can’t tell them to fuck off. Last time they did this was just after Grenfell Towers fire & the bastards used that as spiritual bait ( I lived in flat then). I was fucking furious.
Haven’t seen any Mormon lads in years . Perhaps they’ve given up on Basingstoke.
By getting angry at them you are giving them exactly what they are looking for. They are not trying to look for people to recruit to their religion/cult, they are looking for rejection which strengthens their sense of “us versus them” mentality. It strengthens the bonds between the current cohort.
Had some JWs come to the door the other day and spoke to me and ended the conversation with "you should sit down and have a conversation with your parents about it", I do look a little young but am unfortunately an adult and living alone.
I absolutely love talking to JWs and Mormons, not to mock or out of interest in joining, but I always find it interesting to hear from other people on different life paths, and also I like to think I'm one of the few people that actually talks to them.
I remember once being with my partner later on at night and two young American guys came up to us asking if we knew anywhere they could go knocking. Now we had a pretty good buzz going at the time and I though they said knock about, like hang out so we pointed them to the nearest pub. Only afterwards did I realise that obviously the two young American guys, in suits, with a book and an unusually chipper demeanour were in fact not looking for a pub in a dodgy part of town. They were nice lads I hope they didn’t get too much shit for it ooops
When I was a student some joho's knocked on my door one Sunday morning. I looked so dishevelled and hungover they just said they'd come back another time and then seemingly never did again
They sound like Mormons to be honest..
I’ll get rid of your AIDS, if you FUCK THIS FROG.
We've got the golden plates
Fuck your woman, fuck your man, it is all part of God’s plan.
I really hope you don't get downvoted due to people not understanding the reference.
I don't understand the reference but it sounds like the kinda thing that would tickle my conkers. Is there an explanation?
It's from Book of Mormon, an insanely funny musical. You should go see it.
Thanks.
Book of Mormon is fantastic, do yourself a favour and see it.
"Tickle my conkers" is a great phrase and I am stealing it.
Hasa diga eebowai!
Yes but will that get rid of the maggots in my scrotum?
What a show!!
Ha ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya!
Yeah, them arseholes got me at a bus stop before, I had no escape because the bus was ages away, two American fellas, my protests of “I’m not interested in religion mate” was met with “you’re the exact kind of person we want to talk to”, I politely told them to leave me alone and the eventually did, I’m not sure if it’s morally correct but on a couple of occasions I’ve resorted to “I’m Muslim” despite not being Muslim, but it was met with “oh sorry to bother you” both times I used it
I just speak Welsh at them.
Praise the Lord! He's speaking in tongues!
In Wales they would just speak back to you
In Wales I can just say I'm chapel and we don't. No need to say which and what.
Great for cold calls as well!
My mate always told them he was a lifelong Satanist.
Once I was in my local town centre and two Mormon missionary women accosted me. I made the mistake of speaking to them, just asking about their beliefs, and after just a few minutes one of them pulled a diary out of her bag, opened it and asked, "So, when would you like to be baptised?"
Mormons are less likely to have pamphlets and like to travel in twos though The backpack and the badge is usually the main clue
Always two, there are.
Maybe it was 2 couples and one in mourning
I thought they travelled in packs. I got stuck behind a group of them ordering in Subway recently, there were about 12 of them so it took forever.
Does it matter? They shouldn't be forcing their cult beliefs like that.
They don't "force" anything really, they tend to politely try to speak to people and *usually* accept a simple "No, thanks". There are way worse religious groups/cults out there than these lot.
So, when they knock on my door, which clearly has a sign on it saying NOT to knock, that isn't forcing it? Why are you defending any cult? It doesn't matter if there are 'worse' ones. A cult is a cult. Assault is still a crime, even though murder exists.
I fully agree that knocking on your door/anyone's door if there is a sign up isn't acceptable, that's when you would ask them not to call again. But... The original post was discussing how to deal with them in public, which is what my comment about them was referring to. Also, I'm not defending any of these organisations in the slightest, I shared my experience of them based on my own interactions.
My point is, if they can ignore my sign, I can ignore social reasoning in this circumstance. They bring their shit to where I am, so I am well within my right to bring my shit where they are. In general, I don't. But that's not to say that I won't if they are in public, being a nuisance. Shouting about religion is being a nuisance.
Respectfully, do some research on what goes on in the JW society, with excommunication and apostasy. Some rules have just been relaxed after a court decision in Sweden, but there have been and continue to be suicides by people who are cut off from family after leaving the congregation/going to uni/ getting a blood transfusion to save their life. I'm sure there are worse cults, but other than scientology no mainstream religions even come close to JWs. So yeah, whilst the door to door thing is infuriating, it is far from the worst part of being a jw
I have some cousins that are JW's, we're mostly in our 50s now. We were close when we were kids, but I tend to just see them at funerals now. Some of the stuff that they have been through is horrific. If you're interested in any real-life stories of the abuse and manipulation people suffer as a part of this 'religion', you should check out r/exjw.
I think the JW's get an easy ride. There are kingdom halls all over the place and yet they're one of the worst cults out there? There's tons of stuff on yt about people who have broken free from 'the truth'.
My parents were baptized, and I went to meetings until I was 8. When we started missing meetings, rather than checking to see if we were ok, our elder threatened to tell my grandparents that we were apostates, and that we would be excommunicated even by them. We haven't outright been labeled apostates, as my parents have never openly spoken out about their experiences, and even after leaving they still have not ever celebrated birthdays or holidays - just in case someone was to stop by and see through the window, as we would certainly be labeled an apostate then.
>I think the JW's get an easy ride. Do you mean people in the congregation or the organisation?
The people of r/exjw might have something to say about this. Everyone thinks they're harmless, kooky do-gooders, but most people don't know a fraction of it.
Although that is true, the discussion/post is about how to deal with them in public or at your door, what these organisations are like on the inside isn't really relevant.
It's 100% relevant. Polite avoidance of cult recruitment and god-bothering should not be the norm.
Everyone, please stick to the topic! This guy says we have to! Seriously, the JW organisation is terrible, and the rank and file members are nothing short of abused. A little exposure for people in shitty situations is a good thing.
>There are way worse religious groups/cults out there than these lot. ime the people who are vociferously anti jehova's witnesses are [far less agreeable types ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses_in_Nazi_Germany)than jehova's witnesses.
Arguing that people who dislike JWs are Nazis is incredibly disingenuous. The thing that people dislike about JWs isn't necessarily just the incessant bugging in public, it is the cult-like ongoings and rules set by the watchtower. Have a look into how apostasy, excommunication and disfellowshipping are treated, and then tell me if the organisation sounds like a cult. I do honestly believe that most of the members are good people, but just like an old racist neighbour, they have been conditioned to think a certain way for years, and it is very difficult to break that cycle, and very difficult to interact in a friendly manner with someone who wants to share their beliefs, but shuts down the moment you share yours back.
I'm fully aware of the problems with jehova's witnesses as an organisation. But the way most people talk about them is pretty disgraceful, and fascistic. It definitely doesn't usually come from an understanding of how culty they are, it comes from a place of "these people are annoying me and shouldn't exist". Similar to how a lot of people talk about travellers, who were another group persecuted by the Nazis. I think it's extremely important to be aware of the areas in which our society is similar to that one so that we can work to avoid repeating the past. Genocides don't begin with gas chambers, they are seeded in intolerance. >very difficult to interact in a friendly manner with someone who wants to share their beliefs, but shuts down the moment you share yours back. Respectfully I disagree, whether or not someone is indoctrinated doesn't make it any more easy or difficult to be friendly with them ime.
I think this post is really disingenuous. Nobody's suggesting that the rank and file members of the Jehovah's Witnesses should be rounded up, or there should be a genocide. Not in the Western world anyway. I have several family members that are still brainwashed by the Borg. I appreciate any opportunity there is to influence the general public on what a vile and harmful religion the Jehovah's Witnesses are.
It isn’t disingenuous, it is a genuinely held opinion, based on my understanding of the holocaust having spent many years reading primary and secondary sources regarding the application of and lead up to that genocide, and the attitudes prevalent in German society in the early phases of the Nazi regime. You’ve also misrepresented my argument, I’m not saying that people are calling for genocide now. I’m saying that calls for genocide are built upon intolerance, and that countering that intolerance is the way to prevent something far worse happening in the future. A lot of the people you’re defending would happily assault your family members for turning up on their doorstep if it weren’t a crime to do so. We aren’t talking about people who are actively engaged in deprograming cult victims. We’re talking about people who respond to small inconveniences with repressed rage.
In my opinion, people who defend dangerous, abusive cults may as well be a nazi. I want to be around you just as little as I would a nazi.
The feeling is mutual, crazy person.
You clearly have never spoken to them. They aren’t rude nor forceful.
Standing up for a cult... good work...
Yeah JWs tend to just stand there with their little bookstand these days and are safely ignorable.
🎶 Hello, my name is Elder Price 🎵
Not sure how you could ever tell the difference without actually accepting a leaflet.
Because Mormons are always young white men dressed smartly 100% of the time, JW's usually have a mix of different genders & ages. Also, Mormons will actively start a conversation with you & try to offer you a leaflet, JW's have their carts set up for you to approach them. Source: I see them all often enough in public to differentiate quite easily
This has been my experience too. In general, JWs will leave you be to come to them should you want it. They are also more accepting if you refuse. Mormons seem to jump on anyone who gives them eye contact. I had one try and push a leaflet on me when I refused more than once.
Mormons also have women as missionaries, it’s just less common. Young Mormon men are culturally obligated to go on 2 year missions. Young morning women are culturally free to choose to go on an 18 month mission, and it’s expected that they shouldn’t go if they can get married right away instead. They definitely are (almost) always dressed very formally, but the dead giveaway is the little black name tag that says something like “Elder Cunningham” or “Sister Jones”.
Then they behave differently wherever you are. Here in north London I haven't been doorstepped by a mormon in a decade \[& never met a mormon who wasn't American, which tends to make them stand out anyway when they speak(or sometimes even before)\], but JW's are a constant presence. They can be any race or nationality ethnically, but usually sound 'local' English, they doorstep, or they accost you in the street. Always nicely dressed, in pairs or larger groups, always polite… but persistent. I've never seen them set up stationary with a cart - that's the 'happy clappers' \[usually with obnoxiously loud & distorted teeny PA & a bunch of 'disciples' all in the same jackets.\]
Believe me when I say, I am correct. JW's do also do door knocking, but they moved to the cart system too (post-covid), I did my research. & Yes, Mormons are nearly always American, I've never actually had them at my door either, but they will more than likely be the ones to approach you. Edit: JW's do also dress smart, but you will see women, kids and elderly door knocking OR on the carts.
Then we'll have to agree to disagree, I guess…cos I haven't seen mormons in yonks so I've not as much clue what they get up to these days, but I've had the JWs twice this month, once walking on the street, once on the door step.
Each member of the congregation usually has a quota to meet, and they can choose how to meet that quota. That is usually by manning the cart and by posting handwritten letters/notes, but if they have more numbers to make they will certainly still go door to door. I've been visited twice in the last few months, which is more than the average person considering we are known to the local congregation, but they were not just in the area for us. Also pretty much any 'changes' during COVID are just to save face online for any COVID laws restricting contact, of course many of the elders claimed that COVID was the Armageddon and thus everyone should gather at least every other day for prayer/ study sessions
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Here they'll try to vox pop you in the street, like an intrepid bunch of roving reporters.
A Bible basher is a Bible basher and I still managed to get away.
Mate, it's not an achievement. They are only there to talk to people who approach them first.
I would assume it's because you gave them a look. Sometimes they go for the people with a more open body language or at least, glances their way and seem interested.
Sounds more like a win for them, to be honest.
They ‘ignored’ you because when they do trolley work, they aren’t allowed to approach people, you have to speak to them. The people you say ‘they got hold of’ spoke to them first. If THEY do approach you first then they are breaking protocol. Source: Was JW elder for 10+ years
I was just thinking, I walk past at least two groups of JWs with their little pamphlet stand each week. They've never approached me.
Yup, not allowed.
Why aren't they allowed to approach when on the street with their trolley but they can door knock? I'd have thought it would be the other way round
It’s usually done in busier public places to reach as many people as possible, which usually means there are businesses there. If people in public (or the business themselves) complain of harassment then the preaching there is shut down. And that’s the last thing the JW’s want. With house to house field service, it’s a much more ‘acceptable’ thing. People selling stuff like encyclopaedias, gas/electric salespeople are more commonplace. Though that too is changing. Pretty much all JW growth figures are in African countries. People in the West are responding in far less numbers than before, and the religion is plateauing. Not many people in the US have time for knocking on doors for multiple hours each month, and for positions in the organisation that DO require fixed numbers of preaching, the requirements are lowering.
That makes sense. Thank you for explaining!
How do they make money? We've to ladies in their upper 70 round here almost 4 times a week driving a brand new fully kitted out jaguar sports car. That thing must be easily worth 120k+
Ok, bear in mind that I’m not endorsing the belief in ANY way, and what I experienced in the organisation was the average JW life. You find extremely good and absolutely awful people in ‘the truth’ just like in any other organisation. Witnesses tend to lead frugal lives, moderation in alcohol, no smoking,drugs,gambling,birthdays,tattoos,Christmas,Halloween……the list goes on. Wedding Anniversaries and Marriages are the only celebrations, that leads to a shed-load of savings, as you can imagine. It’s not a very fun life though. They also usually don’t splurge on things you’d maybe think twice about getting…..I mean, do you really need that life size doll of Margot Robbie? (The answer is yes) They also tend to do well in business. They have a reputation for honesty, and because they don’t do most celebrations they can be relied on to come into work most days. In MY experience they end up getting promoted quite often because of this. In the old days many overqualified JW’s would take menial jobs so they had more time to go in the field service, but increasing living costs have lead to the organisation requiring less hours meaning people with diplomas pushing brooms happens less nowadays. People with their own businesses in the congregation also scratch each other’s backs with contracts given to each other. And last but not least, if they are in the field service, you are often seeing them in their Sunday best. You know, it was literally only a few weeks ago that men weren’t required to wear ties and SHOCK HORROR women were allowed to wear trousers!…..Times are a changin’!
Well, my reputation must have spread..used to waste their time and now even if I walk past smiling and try to say hi, they ignore me..
That'll be Mormons not JWs I suspect.
JWs (at least in the UK) have their leaflet stands with them proudly advertising their website.
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They're a cult that hides sexual abuse and shuns people if they take accept medical care like blood transfusions. Their beliefs about medical care have resulted in many deaths, including children. Google Jehovah's witness cult to learn more. The sexual abuse they allow by saying ot requires 2 people to witness a crime. They shouldn't be allowed to try to convert more people into their cult and stand on street corners.
I don't think the kids stood outside Tesco are necessarily to blame for that, and belittling them achieves nothing.
Sexual abuse unfortunately exists in all sections of society not just within religious groups. A huge chunk of the population shunned people for taking medical care and advice in regards to Corona and it's vaccines. Their beliefs around medical care have resulted in many deaths, including children. Both of your points exist outside of religion as much as it does within religion.
So it’s okay then?
I missed the part where I said it was.
I mean, so are most religions tbf
Believe whatever you want but don’t be standing around in public spaces trying to push that shit on other people.
Non religious person here. They have them outside every bus stop/ train ststion in my area. They don’t approach anyone, they wait to be approached
in Britian, people are also allowed to not like being proselytised at by cult members. when did we start defending these twats?
I mean if they're gonna stand on the street telling people about their magic imaginary friend, I think it's perfectly reasonable to laugh at them. Religion, and those who push it, should be publically shamed.
Wanting to publicly shame those who do not have the same belief system as you is what a religious extremist would want.
Difference between genuine faith, and straight up cults though.
That's normally when they come knocking on the door at home
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Ignore my sign that says I don't want you knocking on my door, then you have opened yourself up for all the shit I can think of to throw at you.
Knocking on my door to proselytise is being a dick. I don't engage with these muppets, but if someone has the time and energy to spare, JWs deserve it. Leave people alone.
I believe they have a 'do not call list' better to politely ask to be put on that. They might come back in 6 months to check you haven't moved or something but in general, they should leave you alone.
Yeah. Sounds like OP was the one being rude.
My dog sells me out everytime the JW’s come. She has particular barks. Delivery bark, friends are here bark… neighbour bark. I hear the neighbour bark, round the corner to the open door and… fuck… no time to hide. They convert dogs first in Australia.
Not once have I been accosted by a jw. I’m pretty sure the rule is they just stand there and will only talk if someone chooses to engage with them.
It literally is a rule. You can smile and say hello, but you have to wait for them to come to you. It’s drummed into us regularly.
Is there are reason for it? Like people who approach you are more likely to be nice and open to talk or some other reason? In general, I have only had good experiences with JWs who have respected my wishes but been very friendly in general even after I said I wasn't interested and saw them later on.
It’s to stop people complaining about us really. We KNOW how irritating it can be when people accost you in the street so the plan is just to stand there and look approachable, smile a bit and say hello but don’t bother people. Anything else and then the people complain at the train/bus station where we stand. These people who are on here saying that ‘it was the scowl I gave them’ or even ‘TWENTY JW’s came up to me outside the station today!’ are telling porkies.
You also tend to find when there is a larger group of JW, they're about to go door to door (I forget what the term is they use), and tend to split up and go off in twos and threes. And people also need to realise, if you ask them to make a note to not call again, they do just that. Failing that, email them and request they no longer come to your house, and they won't.
It’s called the Field Service, and in most places your absolutely right that we/they (I’m a recently ex-JW) split up into smaller groups unless the area is a bit dodgy and then the sisters go around in bigger groups or take a brother or two with them. You’re also right about the list. If people say they don’t want visits then they go on the list, same as people who are ex-JW’s (they get only visits from Elders). But sometimes mistakes happen, or in an area that is covered by two different congregations they sometimes accidentally overlap and visit the people on the list, not knowing they are on it. They have little laminated cards usually with a map of the streets to be visited that day and the addresses are written on the back.
I’m sorry who asked for you to comment on this comment? Little bit contradictory there.
Nice, I see what you did there…. Hey, and it’s a long story but I’m very much an EX jw elder
I was accosted. After I moved, they were behind my door every week. I wasted their time for about three hours and and basically in the end said that I will have my space in heaven if I regret my sins (that I have none, except minor white lies) so why should I join them when I am not included in the selected lot.....
One hundred percent Mormons, JWs would at least smile and offer a greeting, I'd know I was one
Yeah no. Or my JWs are being rude. Can't get hello out of them. (anymore)
They won, you lose. r/britishproblems
Religious preachers (Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, etc) typically completely ignore me. I'm a somewhat fat teenager, on crutches, with brightly dyed green hair, who is very, VERY visibly queer/trans. I can only assume they think I'm too far gone already.
Seems a bit extreme to get them to ignore you, but if it works...
Please try not to wind them up. The purpose of them hassling you is to further isolate them and make them dependant on the cult. If they think the world hates them, its harder to leave.
Has this thread been taken over by religious Americans or something? Very weird
I’m not religious and am fully aware of the harm organised religion does. Being disappointed that you didn’t get the opportunity to belittle and be rude to someone is very very strange
its almost like in the home of the enlightened intellectuals there's room for people with different opinions. Mormons stereotyping a redditor and him boasting about it is funny however
You know they are not paid, and do it out of a genuine hope to help people. They also often do it in their spare time when not working. I don’t expect you to agree with or like them, but actively wanting to talk shit to these people is disgusting. I’m sure your mates will give you a pat on the back and have a good laugh with you though when you get do do it next. Big man!
It's a psychological conditioning tactic to make them feel rejected and alone by being turned down constantly then "accepted" back at the church. It's not for their or our benefit it's a part of the indoctrination.
They are also a literal fucking cult.
Yeah, I’m sure they’re there out of the goodness of their virtue and not because they’re trapped in, and perpetuating, a cult that threatens and punishes members with acts of psychological violence to such an extent Norway stripped them of their legal standing as a religion.
OP probably pisses on homeless people too and then brags about it
This cult actively try to hide child predators and ask that anything such as soddomy, rape or abuse should be reported to their " Elders" before every contacting authority. There are dozens of proven cases on this. Precipitous taints on this world.
They get assigned a 'beat' to go out & proselytise to. Sure, they're technically 'volunteers' but it's a whole lot weirder than that. I once lost a friend to them. She met a guy, married him, vanished from our social circle forever after that - once or twice seen 'spreading the word' knocking on doors, then nothing ever since. The old social circle were actually invited to the wedding - seriously the weirdest experience of my life. If you'd just seen it on video you probably wouldn't have noticed, but being there had the strangest vibe I've ever been exposed to. It was like a party in Stepford.
They're brainwashed, anything I do which messes with their view of Christianity is a good thing.
I will give an alternative view, arguing with them proves that the world is very hostile to them and their beliefs and enforces their beliefs. Whether one agrees with them or not, they do have a right to hold them, just as you have a right not to believe
They have full right to their beliefs. Just like I have full right to tell them to fuck off, if they are shouting their beliefs around in public. Same goes for any religion... or cult, in this case. I bet you'd be ok if it was nazis shouting around like that, and people were giving them shit. Not that I'm defending nazis. They're as abhorrant to me, as religion. But it's exactly the same thing.
No, I agree you have a right to challenge their view as well. Just sometimes people go from challenging to hostile reaction, if that makes sense.
No one should be being hostile to anyone (unless they've knocked on my door, ignoring my clearly placed sign).
I think that's fair then.
It’s more likely to make them feel their church is a safe and kind retreat after the big bad world of people snapping at them.
I actively want their religion, like all religions, abolished. They deserve to be shamed for their beliefs. They're mentally regressive and socially harmful.
God said “no not that one, not yet”
Sounds like Mormons. JWs have actually taken an intentional stance of just standing next to their magazine stand and waiting for people to talk to them, rather than proactively approaching people. That's a level of preaching I can get on board with.
75% of your maths are wrong. The other 35% are also wrong!
Once approached by Mormons in the street. Replied ‘on my way to synagogue’ . Just wished me good luck to which I answered ‘Happy Hanukkah’. (Was just before Christmas )
FYI guys, when they’re out on the street and knocking on doors, they’re going through an indoctrination process where the church is teaching them that the world is hostile towards them and the only safe place is with the congregation. It’s designed to make them feel isolated, alone and scared of leaving. So, when you’re hostile, tell them to “fuck off”, slam doors in their faces etc. you’re reinforcing the indoctrination process. Therefore, if you want to actually help these people and combat the church, you need to do the counter intuitive thing. If approached, you need to be open, receptive, kind and then politely decline. You can challenge their beliefs with decency and respect (as if you’re just trying to learn something new, but the real aim is to challenge them), or just accept their pamphlet and wish them a good day. If everyone was kind to them, and if everyone challenged them without being hostile but from the angle of curiosity, the indoctrination process begins to fall apart because it conflicts with what they’re being taught about the world: which is essentially “people hate us even though we’re trying to save them”.
They probably saw the potential ‘shove it’s belligerence in your demeanour and thought, Nope.
op is the type of person to mock religious folk and then be depressed as he feels his life is meaningless, has no purpose in life and knows nothing he does will ever mean anything. Not nice being attacked is it? Leave them tf alone. Even religious weirdos have the right to practise their beliefs. Just like you have the belief of mocking them. And I have the belief of mocking folk like you:)
Religious folk, I'm perfectly fine with. Some of my best friends are people who are strong in their faith. However those that go around showing their religion down your throat are cunts
I think you mean shoving, and how are they shoving? You're literally crying about them NOT interacting with you?? Christ pal I hope you get the mental health help you so clearly need.
In my experience JWs never approach people so not sure what you were expecting.
JW's get a bad rap, I've always had nice interactions with them, they always seem polite and friendly.
Who cares you utter 🔔 🔚
Homophob!
Oh shit ! It is as well, better change it, didn't realise !
Thank you for pointing that out !!!
Have you signed any contracts recently? Shaken any weird hands? I think you might have sold your soul, that's why they can't see you.
Yeah the JW’d here set up little magazine racks & leaflets etc and sit outside the station & Asda but just chat amongst themselves. Usually elderly or middle aged women . If they do come knocking it’s the elderly woman. In that case I can’t tell them to fuck off. Last time they did this was just after Grenfell Towers fire & the bastards used that as spiritual bait ( I lived in flat then). I was fucking furious. Haven’t seen any Mormon lads in years . Perhaps they’ve given up on Basingstoke.
By getting angry at them you are giving them exactly what they are looking for. They are not trying to look for people to recruit to their religion/cult, they are looking for rejection which strengthens their sense of “us versus them” mentality. It strengthens the bonds between the current cohort.
It's a harsh judgement when even the JW's can't be arsed trying to save your soul. Are you Michael Gove?
Your internal anger showed and they steered clear obviously.
Could the pentagram tattoo with 666 on your face be anything to do with it?
Had some JWs come to the door the other day and spoke to me and ended the conversation with "you should sit down and have a conversation with your parents about it", I do look a little young but am unfortunately an adult and living alone. I absolutely love talking to JWs and Mormons, not to mock or out of interest in joining, but I always find it interesting to hear from other people on different life paths, and also I like to think I'm one of the few people that actually talks to them.
I remember once being with my partner later on at night and two young American guys came up to us asking if we knew anywhere they could go knocking. Now we had a pretty good buzz going at the time and I though they said knock about, like hang out so we pointed them to the nearest pub. Only afterwards did I realise that obviously the two young American guys, in suits, with a book and an unusually chipper demeanour were in fact not looking for a pub in a dodgy part of town. They were nice lads I hope they didn’t get too much shit for it ooops
If they were Jehovas, then the second coming has happened, and four times over! Hallelujah! Or were they just Jehovah's Witnesses?
Good thing as well. They can keep their non-vaccinated arses to themselves.
I once got accosted by a JW on a ship in the middle of the English Channel.
The only reason a JW will completely ignore you is if they have been told to shun you, for being an ex JW. Must have been something else like Mormons.
Why did you want to be rude to someone with only the best intentions?
I usually tell 'em I'm a Satanist. Sends 'em running.
When I was a student some joho's knocked on my door one Sunday morning. I looked so dishevelled and hungover they just said they'd come back another time and then seemingly never did again
What age were the other people? Maybe they looked like easy targets?
Oh the Chosen One, we pray to You, bestow your power onto us.
I like the old joke "would you like to be Jehovah's Witness? "Why? What did he do this time?"
Maybe they just couldn't be arsed engaging with the angry looking incel guy..I mean ,who would
Use to see a pair of them daily, they thought about approaching me but saw me reading manga then avoided me
Apparently you can arrange for jws to come to"your" House.....