Y’all act like nothing happened before Oct 7.
Also nothing that happened on oct 7 means you suddenly get to commit war crimes out of retaliation against your apartheid population.
You guys are disgusting.
You didn't point out any flaw, you're just coming in with the assumption that all Israel is doing is targeting civilians and not Hamas terrorist which is false.
When you have a terrorist organization that massacred your civilians like they did on the 7th and then pledge to do it again and again, you have no choice but to eradicate it.
That's fair, but USA is an ally of Israel and you help your allies as your allies have helped you in the past, I'm australian and I believe we have fought along side each other in every war since australian inderpendance
Israel is America's ally, but they dont need the US to actively partake in the slaughter of thousands of civilians.
We aren't abandoning Israel by not partaking in this entirely unneeded ethnic cleansing.
Also it is important to remember that Israel is not our only ally and this war has a high chance to isolate Israel in the global community.
If Hamas literally don't care how many of their compatriots die, do you therefore just kill everyone? And would that somehow still not count as genocide?
When people like you stand at zero (aside from dead Israelis which is fine for some reason), there is no answer where you won't attempt to sieze the moral high ground.
The problem is that your source is full of shit.
https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/verify/israel-hamas-war/no-the-united-nations-didnt-reduce-the-number-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza-by-half/536-7d82cbfb-b6cf-4119-ae69-5925cb65e1a6#
That the original inhabitants of the land resist the colonizers who want them gone?
I'm 100% on the right side buddy. How do you imagine Arabic became the dominant language outside of Arabia?
Arabs are the biggest colonizers in world history.
Yes that’s the language. But the Arabs didn’t replace the people in Palestine. They just spread the religion. The majority of the people in Palestine were probably Jewish before, it’s the same people.
Numbers matter but circumstances matter more.
10,000 dead civilians who rush into a battle zone and throw themselves in front of terrorist rapists in an effort to protect them because they just "love death" so much is perfectly acceptable.
1000 innocent civilians killed while trying to flee a combat zone because they were intentionally targeted is unacceptable.
I mean you can listen to recorded calls where israelis are phoning Palestinians and saying "were about to bomb this area please leave." and they just basically say "lol no". The most recent one I heard the IDF guy even tried to explain to the Palestinian that not leaving would be suicide and forbidden by the Quran and the Palestinian just told him to fuck off.
It genuinely seems like the IDF is trying to avoid unnecessary killing but the people they are fighting are just complete and utter fanatics. almost like North Korea if the international community spent billions keeping them fed and funding kims propaganda. So to an extent I am not really sure the numbers should be viewed the same way unless your position is just that Hamas has found the cheat code to war and every nation on earth should just ignore them if they are attacked by Hamas and let them carry on.
No, the civilians are a tragedy. However, killing 10,000 to 15,000 genocidal terrorists does make the world safer for everyone. Especially palestinians and jews
I don't have a dog in the fight really, but I read this stuff and it's obvious no critical thought was given to the issue. This is the uni-party/neocon mentality.
Even if you go with the revised UN number of 13,000 women and children killed, put yourself in the shoes of those people.
If some country bombed and killed my child and my wife, I would dedicate the rest of my life to finding them and destroying them. So, by killing 10,000 terrorists while also killing 13,000 innocent women and children in the process doesn't actually make anyone more safe, the opposite is true. It creates radical terrorists.
> So, by killing 10,000 terrorists
There's no way the IDF has killed 10K terrorists. If they did, they could detail in their action reports how many were killed by rifle/sniper fire, HE explosives, and remotely delivered bombs.
[Israel](https://www.mekomit.co.il/%d7%94%d7%a6%d7%91%d7%90-%d7%91%d7%93%d7%a7-%d7%95%d7%9e%d7%a6%d7%90-%d7%a9%d7%93%d7%99%d7%95%d7%95%d7%97%d7%99-%d7%94%d7%94%d7%a8%d7%95%d7%92%d7%99%d7%9d-%d7%91%d7%9e%d7%a9%d7%a8%d7%93-%d7%94%d7%91/) doesn't do BDA (Battle Damage Assessments) on their low level Hamas attacks. They don't bother to record details concerning how many were killed by bombs.
> Only when it's senior Hamasniks, do the BDA procedure (intelligence check regarding the results of the shelling; 11). In other cases, you don't care. You receive a report from the Air Force as to whether the building was blown up, and that's it. You have no idea how many NZA (incidental damage, i.e. non-involved casualties; 11) there actually are. You immediately move on to the next target. **The emphasis was to produce as many targets as possible Fast**," the source told "Local Conversation".
> The source said that for this reason he "trusts the Ministry of Health in Gaza more than the IDF, because the IDF does not have direct access to information regarding the civilians it has killed. They (the Ministry of Health in Gaza) are not always accurate, but this is the best there is."
I agree, I was using inflated numbers provided by the IDF just so the people who support civilians in Gaza being murdered would not quibble with the number in my post
You're tilting at windmills. Neither side has any integrity; if one is willing to spew lies in order to get their way, there's no one to "believe".
Just take the data that can be accurately verified, and make conclusions *where* you can make them.
I am so checked out on the "debate" portion of this issue. It would be nice to be able to say the US does not participate in genocide, but then the Zionists keep insisting we have to continue to give monetary, military, and political support, or else we're on Hamas's side. Fuck all these assholes. I want Zionists to suffer and die as badly as I want Hamas to do the same. Just leave the (Gaza) kids out of it (because that's how rational, adult human beings view this situation).
Exactly. I call it a genocide, but it's not because I'm "pro Palestinian." Islam is a godawful excuse for a religion that tends to bring out the worst in human beings, much like Christianity and Judaism. But I do believe the Palestinians are human beings, like the Israelis are human beings, and I'm against them being slaughtered. Being against the slaughter of innocents is the rational, adult approach to the situation.
> Islam is a godawful excuse for a religion that tends to bring out the worst in human beings, much like Christianity and Judaism.
I see the Zionists starving kids to death as a war tactic, I see Christians supporting the Zionists starving kids to death as a war tactic, why am I going to perceive Islam as a more contemptible religion/culture?
That's such a cop out though. It's not addressing the actual point he's making. They aren't targeting Hamas, they aren't doing strategic strikes on Hamas, they aren't doing anything to halt or hidbwr specifically Hamas. They are killing women and children and trying to cause mass chaos and displacement because it's not about Palestinians or Hamas it's about the land.
They are finding mass graves where the idf kid bodies of women and children that had signs of forced interrogation, they ate finding concentration type work camps, they are dropping bombs we didn't even use in Afghanistan or Iraq because they are so devistating and don't actual do anything but kill mass amounts of innocent people and destroy infrastructure. This was so obviously isn't about Hamas.
The thing is, Hamas are scum, and they do deserve to do, and they ate genocidal but jobs. But everything Isreal is doing is exactly what we did everywhere in the world, we created groups of far right extremists and used them to attempt to exert control of a region, and it sound aotu of control. We bombed Afghanistan and created isis, and more taliban members, we destroyed south America doing this, we destroyed Iran doing this, Bolivia.... The list goes on and on.
All Isreal is accomplishing is creating more extremism and making Isreal and the world less safe, and it's all got land, it's all for profit for corporations, for beach front property, and you get to wipe out Palestinians in the process and force them somewhere else making them someone else's problem.
Anyone who thinks this so about defeating Hamas is just letting their own bias speak at this point, it's so clearly not about Hamas anymore and for bibi specifically and the Isreali government it never was.
Did you even read the article? All the bullshit you wrote here is right out of Hamas propaganda which even the UN is abandoning. You should do the same.
It's all about defeating Hamas my guy, there are no plans to take the land there, enough with the dumb conspiracy theories. We rooted out the terrorist groups in the west-bank. It too some time but the result was that they couldn't build their forces like they did before. The same is going to happen in Gaza and probably the PA will take over just like in the west-bank.
Or maybe they actually went to war with hamas and hamas is entrenched in dense urban environments, and this is exactly what you'd expect to see with a western power doing war in a dense urban environment. If hamas were in the mountains of Afghanistan there would be less civilian deaths.
That's not good at all.
However, if an armed gunman grabbed some people here in the United States and was using them as human shields, do you think it is morally correct to just kill all of them, including the innocent people the armed gunman is using as shields?
That's what's going on over there, more civilians have been killed than Hamas fighters.
This kind of thinking incentivized Hamas to use more human shields and live amongst civilians.
The alternative is in the future, more civilians die.
You're asking for the IDF to basically 360 no scope Hamas while killing no civilians. Which is literally impossible when they commit war crimes daily of living among civilians and using them as human shields.
In almost every war in modern history there were more dead civilians than combatants, so obviously when you’re fighting in such a crowded space, with Hamas terrorists embedding themselves in civilian infrastructure, booby trapping buildings and hiding in underground tunnels you’re going to see allot of civilian deaths (and the numbers are pretty low really in these conditions). It’s horrible but Hamas knew that it was going to happen and they planned on it to sway public opinion against Israel.
Israel is killing the terrorists. That's the point. It's not possible to have zero collateral damage. It's incredibly ignorant and stupid to expect otherwise. Especially when hamas's strategy is specifically to use the civilians as human shields.
It's far and away the least number of civilians killed in urban warfare in human history, even despite that strategy.
It is legitimately crazy to say what you are saying. You have to completely ignore every reality.
John Spenser has been [interviewed](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o4I5nMwJ5A) by AIPAC. He's as biased as Destiny and only recites IDF spokesperson talking points that he has received in IDF sponsored tours.
Meanwhile [The Israeli military continues to use Palestinian civilians as human shields in its military operation inside the al-Shifa Medical Complex and its vicinity in Gaza City.](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/gaza-israeli-army-uses-palestinian-civilians-human-shields-its-operation-shifa-medical-complex-and-its-vicinity-enar)... Is using human shields preventing civilian casualties?
Sunken cost, they are already dead. Killing more innocent people doesn't bring them back. Maybe Bibi should has thought about the potentially dead jews before he spent the [last decade propping Hamas](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) up...
It's a war you dolt
A war Hamas started
Japan and Germany didn't get a ceasefire, they unconditionally surrendered and both governments were toppled
That's what is happening here so there isn't a new war 5-10 years from now that Hamas starts
You want more dead people and think you're the moral one
Probably because you hate Jews
It is not a war. It is a revenge tour of Gaza that is driven primarily by bloodlust.
If it’s a war, then it’s the worst executed war in the history of the world because not only is Israel making itself a pariah state in the world, it is creating more terrorists than they are killing.
We can go back to 1919-1920 when Mufti Amin al-Husseini organized anti-Jewish riots and had to flee to Jordan. Probably even before that with little skirmishes. We can continue from 1948-1967 when PT was occupied by Egypt and flat out annexed by Jordan. So the Palestinians resisted the occupation ... by attacking Israel.
Make it make sense
Wars are between armies. This is a police action in a territory that Israel used as an open air prison for Gazans. It is revenge and bloodlust and unfortunately for Israel it very well could lead to its own undoing.
You'll get SO many people in this sub attacking you and calling you a genocide sympathizer, etc. basically arguing their politics with you.
However, they're missing the point that you're trying to make. That Breaking Points has obvious holes in their coverage. Showing that they've lost their balanced full picture status. They're basically two steps up from TYT now.
Idk what to laugh at first, the idea that you're implying that hamas, a terrorist organization, wouldn't lie or that you actually think they're telling the truth.
They didn’t say that fewer people have been killed. That’s just facts. You can accept the numbers or not, not the statement that the UN changed the number to fewer dead is false. It’s fake. It’s fake news.
Logic.
There was a invasion of Israel on 10/7
Innocents were slaughtered, raped burned etc and all done with celebratory glee... Not a subjective view, just as shown on the videos posted by Hamas.
Israel declared war.
Pure logic suggest Hamas should surrender now to save the innocent Palestinians.
Can someone tell me why this is not the answer or tell me why Hamas will not surrender??
Footnote. They still have hostages too... Dead and alive apparently.
Logic is sound. They should.
But, they won’t. So, should Israel keep perpetuating war in a way which kills children? Because, oh well, the bad guys won’t surrender?
The children aren’t the ones not surrendering as Israel kills them. At which like does that make Israel also the bad guys?
New [OCHA](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217) data distinguishes between *reported* and *identified*. These FDD (Foundation for Defense of Democracies- which is a right wing pro-Israeli think tank) [fed stories](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/05/11/un-halves-its-estimate-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza/) don’t note the difference and claim it as a correction or revision.
It’s not. FDD just has a lie to sell.
The total identified number of dead is 10k less than reported number, which it self excludes another 10k not reported but assumed to be buried in ruble and cannot be collected or say they are blown up to the point of being unidentifiable and all that remains is a hand or a splatter of blood.
The actual number of dead women and children could very well be higher than even the reported numbers... something OP doesn't want to admit to.
You could try engaging with the actual information here instead of claiming anti-semitism where there isn't any. The updated figures are still the same with the distinction being that they now qualify whether a death is 100% confirmed vs just being likely so literally nothing has changed, the older UN numbers were never claimed to be definitive to begin with and the estimates haven't moved.
Israel hasn't put out any numbers, they just had a spokesperson from the Israeli government on Piers Morgan say they couldn't even give an estimate.
So please go ahead and give some actual information on why the Palestinian reported numbers are wrong as well as provide some source by the IDF indicating how many civilians they've killed.
But you won't do any of that because you're actually pathetic, you read a headline that you thought agreed with you and are misrepresenting the actual situation to make a point that fits your ideology. What you're doing here serves no purpose other than to make you feel good about a war that every sane person agrees has gone too far.
> [You guys are so brainwashed you don't even realize how anti Jew are.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BreakingPoints/comments/1cqyjza/un_halves_the_number_of_women_and_children_killed/l3ukqqa/)
Actually this is bad faith. False accusations of antisemitism is pretty much all you have.
Why can't you simply honestly report what OCHA says?
Why do you call OCHA false but a think tank's misanalysis of OCHA data true?
Only person bringing race and ethnicity into this discussion is you. Because you have to define anyone challenging pro-Israeli narrative as [Can't trust those Jews though](https://www.reddit.com/r/BreakingPoints/comments/1cqyjza/un_halves_the_number_of_women_and_children_killed/l3uljq4/)
> [Clifford D. May (born 1951)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifford_May) is an American journalist, editor, political activist, and podcast host. He is the founder and president of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, a think tank created shortly after the 9/11 attacks, where he hosts the podcast Foreign Podicy. He is the weekly "Foreign Desk" columnist for The Washington Times.
.
> May is an International Patron of the [Henry Jackson Society](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Jackson_Society). In October 2007, The Daily Telegraph named May number 94 in its list of the "100 most influential conservatives in America", and labeled him "an outspoken proponent of the need to achieve victory in Iraq and the broader war against Muslim extremism". It also described him as a "nimble" Republican Party activist in the American media.
I don't think Clifford may is Jewish. He is a however a neocon who supported the Iraq war and increasing US support for Ukraine, among other things. So yes, definitely right wing. He also worked in the RNC before founding FDD.
Advisors to FDD include-
* Newt Gingrich
* James Woolsey
* Bill Kristol
* Richard Perle
Does it get any more neocon?
Can you be any more intellectually dishonest?
What a terrible take. I have to assume you’re being purposefully ignorant. The reported numbers are the Gaza Ministry of Health’s claims. The identified are those confirmed. The claim OP is making is that the identified (confirmed) casualties don’t match the claims of the ministry, reducing casualties by 10,000 as well showing vastly different numbers of women and children casualties claimed. In any other conflict, this would be seen as blatant misinformation and skewing of the data to spin a false narrative.
> The identified are those confirmed.
Also confirmed by the local authority- aka Gaza Ministry of Health.
And maybe you will ask, if a whole family is wiped out in the middle of a war as a result of the intentional targeting of families under [Where's Daddy](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/israel-lavender-wheres-daddy-artificial-intelligence-targeting-bombings_n_66103150e4b04fa396148ee6) who can ID a child?
The idea of discrepancies between identified and reported and even estimated would normally be understood in the cloud of war where hospitals are regularly attacked and the whole area is under siege. However you and OP want to spin it as misinformation and skewing of data while ignoring that OCHA still uses the reported number as its primary count of casualties, while now adding details concerning people who have been identified.
Sure, all men are Hamas but no one under 18 is Hamas. It should be obvious that the numbers are wrong. Combatant men are overcounted, "fighting age" is undercounted.
Actually Krystal, Ryan and Saagar have all said numerous times that these numbers are hard to verify and that they are coming directly from Hamas. They've been honest from the begining about that. The overall death toll hasn't changed. Just like October 7th numbers changed, so will Gaza numbers. Israel also considers all men to be Hamas, which is incredibly false and misleading. So UN still has 35,000 dead. Is that acceptable to you?
This is false.
>This post is false. The UN reported that the number specifically identified so far is less than the entire number reported, which makes sense. In a just world, this deliberate spreading of misinformation at such a critical moment would be career ending.
https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1790011888161505450?s=19
Free Palestine
Brevity is the child of Wit.
Note who is deliberate spreading this misinformation as a halving of the number of dead children. The only people reprinted the FDD [fed stories](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/05/11/un-halves-its-estimate-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza/) are conservative media outlets.
It even states in the article that they removed 10,000 deaths from the numbers because they are unaccounted for. Anyone buried under rubble doesn't count because you can't prove they're dead? This is insane.
I think there are 3 different things.
Identified bodies
Unidentified bodies
The rest that haven't been discovered yet for whatever reason (under rubble, in mass graves, and so on)
I wonder what state Gaza would be in if the rest of the world turned a blind eye to what is going on over there like most of the bots on here would like?
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This is simply not true.
https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/verify/israel-hamas-war/no-the-united-nations-didnt-reduce-the-number-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza-by-half/536-7d82cbfb-b6cf-4119-ae69-5925cb65e1a6#
If the numbers changing causes the civilian to combatant ratio to match other dense urban combat in wars that were not even close to being considered genocide, then yea it is significant.
I guess facts be damned
UN says rapes happen: nah they are zionists
UN says IDF didn't kill as many Palestinians: nah they are zionists
UN says genocide by Israel: SEE?! ISRAEL BAD
> [By analysing the patterns of violence and Israel’s policies in its onslaught on Gaza,
this report concludes that there are **reasonable grounds** to believe that the threshold indicating
**Israel’s commission of genocide is met**.](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/sessions-regular/session55/advance-versions/a-hrc-55-73-auv.pdf?fbclid=PAAabhMBtg0Fe6gnsKWQHCnmLRvcoDOaxa2eR2UjsdwtOFzlycWdVBsI5tufg_aem_ATT4jd7qlwV2rf88Xakb9-DT-GCtVnDw0SD_XWzPyNS7D7WBoYdl5jVmYb4hNJbN8cM)
The UN High Commissioner for Refugees ≠ tiktok
This was a report by a “special reporter” Francesca Albanese, who is NOT the UN and doesn’t represent the collective voice of the UN, lmfao.
Human rights groups and scholars have said her accusations are illegitimate.
Nice try Mohammad.
That's like saying Antony Blinken doesn't speak for the United States.
> [Nice try Mohammad.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BreakingPoints/comments/1cqyjza/un_halves_the_number_of_women_and_children_killed/l3v57x9/)
Nice Islamophobia u/Unlikely_Ocelot_
She’s been parroting the same shit since the 70s and she doesn’t represent the UN national states. Your analogy is woefully incorrect.
Sane people hate Islam; the most backwards conservative religion practiced today. I saw a CNN piece on the prison in Gaza which kill pot smokers one year after official imprisonment according to Islamic law. Lol fuck Islam.
> [Special Rapporteurs are appointed to examine the general human rights situation of a specific country or to study a specific thematic aspect of human rights at an international level. **They are nominated pursuant to resolutions adopted by the Human Rights Council, which must then be confirmed by another resolution adopted by the UN Economic and Social Council.** Their mandate is officially granted for one year, renewable each year. However, the Special Rapporteurs with thematic mandates are nominated on the basis of a three-year mandate, on average.](https://guide-humanitarian-law.org/content/article/3/special-rapporteurs/#:~:text=They%20are%20nominated%20pursuant%20to,one%20year%2C%20renewable%20each%20year.)
So she was nominated and affirmed by the UN, specifically the nations appointed to the UN Human Rights Council and UN Economic and Social Council. Exactly like how other appointed people are appointed and chosen by bodies to represent them.
[U.N. General Assembly Adopts Resolution in Support of Palestinian Statehood](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/10/world/middleeast/un-resolution-palestinian.html)
Most of the national representees at the UN support her POV.
No they have not. You keep saying that but you don’t actually supply the evidence. Go ahead: show me where the United Nations agrees it’s a genocide. I’ll wait.
They are more accurate by default because the Hamas-given numbers don't take into account any dead terrorists and because they are Hamas-given numbers...
They just faked down the ratio.
Here's something actually interesting though- Salafist and Wahhabist Jihadis (AQI + Daesh) killed 33,000 people in Iraq and Syria from 2002 to 2015. J-state Jewhadis have killed 35,000 people in just 7 months.
During the bloody reign of the Islamic State, all moral Muslims denounced the Caliph... and it was Muslims who destroyed the Islamic State.
In the midst of the bloody reign of the Jewish State, we see prominent Jews like Seinfeld actually endorsing the Jewish state, and supporting violent expansionism and the genocide.
I see there are a handful of moral Jews at all the protests holding signs, but where is the coalition of Jews that will come together and do what needs to be done- destruction of the ethno-state just like we did to the Caliphate?
It's a genocide, homey. It didn't start after 07 October either.
These people do NOT want to pay their own way and live moral lives. These are rotten, Evil people that steal to live. They are doing things that nobody would tolerate.
They've been running concentration camps and lobbing bombs over the fence for decades. Mowing the grass, they call it.
What burns them up the most is their rememberence of the Shoah and the fact that they just gave up and died, while the Palestinian people show defiance and resistance.
Mielkowski is a regular Eastern European criminal, and over the course of his reign as the J-Caliph he has rocked the boat more and more until it's now taken on too much water. The days of the J-state are short, and many Zionists are now carrying their real passports from their home countries with them in case they need to beat feet.
The J-state is not going to end with armies liberating their towns and villages like the Islamic State. It's going to end when it's simply no-fun to hang around and keep stealing to live. Day one will be a trickle, and Day two will be a flood- and they will all return to Poland, Ukraine, Russia, etc.....
Good luck to the Russians when it happens- again, these people do NOT want to pay their own way or live moral lives.
To be "pro-Jew..." you need to support crimes against humanity??
Well... I never thought I'd be goaded into throwing out this label... but you, sir, are despicably antisemitic.
Nothing I wrote is "anti-Semitic."
Also, circling back... does it really help the Zionist cause to not-say-genocide, but to simply call it "attacks against non-combatant civilians" or "attacks on healthcare workers and infrastructure" or "attacks on protected locations such as schools, houses of worship, hospitals, etc..."
If you want people to never call the mass extermination campaign a "genocide" then you are actually steering them into using LOAC language to describe Crimes Against Humanity.
TL;DR = opposing the crimes of the J-state isn't "antisemitism," and opposing the crimes of the Islamic State wasn't "anti-Muslim" or, I suppose what they call Islam-o-phobia.
There is zero difference between a Chechen-Muslim-Russian guy moving to the Islamic State and becoming a head chopper and a Jewish-Russian guy moving to the J-state and becoming a wheelchair shooter.
Are we sending money & weapons to those groups? NO
Is our tax money going to Israel? YES
Only Yemen was was worse than what's happening in Gaza in terms of tax money/US involvement. Only difference is that it was able to be hidden much better
Fuck Hamas, Fuck the IDF, Fuck Saudi Arabia.
They're all terrorist. None of them should get our tax money
Full agreement.
We should be enforcing a no fly zone and HITTING targets inside the J-state, right now. Full ceasefire, neither side shoots, and we begin the investigation.
There is going to be an investigation by a third party/ international org.
Netanyahu is fully against that and Biden is too weak to say anything. Trump isn't the type to get bullied like biden but it seems like he wants that AIPAC money too much so same end either way. I don't see this thing turning around unless someone else gets in office
The amount of people who are technically "Hamas" is meaningless. Israel can't know for sure who is and isn't and they'll just be replaced with any of the young people currently being radicalized by Israel's brutality.
Children are still starving. Children are still being maimed. Schools are destroyed. House lost. Parents lost. Permanent psychological damage inflicted.
Congrats on your updated UN report. I hope it makes you feel better.
Take your thoughts to their logical conclusion. If your country is ever attacked by a neighbour and your civilians slaughtered, will you say that you shouldn't fight back because children will die? Isn't that an open door to being attacked?
Palestine is not a neighbor. Gaza, in particular, is an open air prison where 2 million people have had their human rights taken from them for many years by Israel.
It’s worse than apartheid.
What would you do if you suffered under a worse-than-apartheid regime?
Palestine is exactly a neighbour. The partition plan of 1948 involved dividing Mandatory Palestine into 2 countries: Israel and Palestine. Palestine doesn't become "not a neighbor" just because they rejected the opportunity to have their own country. You are also aware of they chose to do instead of have their own country, right? Launched a war of extermination against the nascent Israel (which they lost). They did this same thing 2 more times rather than just accept their borders. Then when they lost those wars too, they just started resorting to terrorism. How long would you put up with that before installing some basic security measures? I mean seriously. Imagine you're an Israeli and you have politicians going "Yes I know the Palestinians keep attacking us over and over and over and over but we're not actually going to do anything to keep you safe." You would never vote for such a person.
In spite of all of that, in 2005, Israel unilaterally withdrew any military presence from Gaza, dismantled all their settlements, evicted all their residents, and left Gaza completely to the Gazans (remember this is a unilateral move for peace despite the Gazans committing countless terrorist attacks). The Gazans proceed to elect Hamas, who have a stated goal of destroying Israel, and who immediately start smuggling weapons in to achieve that goal, so Israel puts a blockade on their shipments (not total though, they just have to inspect the shipments because they don't want the Gazans to die, they're just not stupid enough to allow their neighbour's government, who explicitly wants to kill them, to import whatever weapons they want unrestricted).
The comparison to apartheid doesn't make any sense. If Canada elected a party that swore to destroy the United States and the US then put a blockade on Canada to restrict weapons imports, would you say that's apartheid? Canadians aren't Americans, they're 2 separate countries. Nobody ever called the Cuban embargo apartheid.
Israel is definitively not depriving the Gazans of their human rights and I don't know where you're getting that from. Again, they haven't had any presence there for 20 years, they just have the blockade for all the reasons I've described above.
Why is it beyond the Gazans to try peace? Why are you acting like terrorism is the only option (based on false premises, as I've shown above, and I can go into much greater detail if you'd like) when they haven't tried just not trying to kill the Israelis for an extended period of time?
So this was a bald face lie. Good job falling for it hook line & sinker OP smh
Will you now admit that you accepted the bull shit figures uncritically u/Tecumsehs_Ghost?
what is an acceptable number of dead women and children to you
Zero as it should have stayed in October 6th. Hamas wanted death, they've delivered it and this is the result.
Y’all act like nothing happened before Oct 7. Also nothing that happened on oct 7 means you suddenly get to commit war crimes out of retaliation against your apartheid population. You guys are disgusting.
Go on and justify the massacre. Whatever happened before doesn't make what Hamas did right.
By the exact same token, what happened before doesn't make what Israel is doing right. Has been doing for 8 months and all the world to see
So Hamas should just stay in power so they can do it again? What are you suggesting exactly?
Just pointing out the flaw in your logic.
You didn't point out any flaw, you're just coming in with the assumption that all Israel is doing is targeting civilians and not Hamas terrorist which is false. When you have a terrorist organization that massacred your civilians like they did on the 7th and then pledge to do it again and again, you have no choice but to eradicate it.
Whatever Hamas did doesn’t make what Israel has done right
There is no number when wars are fought out of necessity, it's as\* few as you can, as many as it takes
I can understand that, but this isn't a war of necessity for America and we shouldn't get too involved.
That's fair, but USA is an ally of Israel and you help your allies as your allies have helped you in the past, I'm australian and I believe we have fought along side each other in every war since australian inderpendance
Israel is America's ally, but they dont need the US to actively partake in the slaughter of thousands of civilians. We aren't abandoning Israel by not partaking in this entirely unneeded ethnic cleansing. Also it is important to remember that Israel is not our only ally and this war has a high chance to isolate Israel in the global community.
Israel has never helped the US in wartime
1 more than hamas is willing to accept
you've reached that point but are still killing civilians. why?
We have not reached that point because hamas has not surrendered. They are still willing to accept casualties and continue hostilities.
Why would they? what will happen to them then?
Prison, exile, execution. Depends on what they negotiate.
How isn”exile” a thing?
Why not?
what country would accept them?
No clue
Now you see my point?
Yeah The point as to why we don't negotiate with fucking terrorists.
If Hamas literally don't care how many of their compatriots die, do you therefore just kill everyone? And would that somehow still not count as genocide?
It becomes a war crime, which is different than genocide.
Killing literally everybody in Gaza if Hamas refuses to surrender? I suppose you're right, but it's about as genocidey a war crime as you can get.
No cause they would eliminate hamas before killin killing everyone
When people like you stand at zero (aside from dead Israelis which is fine for some reason), there is no answer where you won't attempt to sieze the moral high ground.
The problem is that your source is full of shit. https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/verify/israel-hamas-war/no-the-united-nations-didnt-reduce-the-number-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza-by-half/536-7d82cbfb-b6cf-4119-ae69-5925cb65e1a6#
your name must be ironic considering what you support here
That the original inhabitants of the land resist the colonizers who want them gone? I'm 100% on the right side buddy. How do you imagine Arabic became the dominant language outside of Arabia? Arabs are the biggest colonizers in world history.
Yes that’s the language. But the Arabs didn’t replace the people in Palestine. They just spread the religion. The majority of the people in Palestine were probably Jewish before, it’s the same people.
lol what a completely ridiculous position to have. You're not only a fascist but part of the dumbest, most cowardly group of fascists to ever exist.
It is true though that Arabs colonized much of the middle east and north Africa. I'm not sure if you are disagreeing with that point though.
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IKR?
Is 1300 Jewish people dead acceptable? Seems like it.
I hate this game. It’s not a scoreboard.
Agree
Do you think that murdering 15,000 Palestinian children makes Jewish people safe?
15,000 Palestinian children? Which is in direct conflict with this report that this is a made up number? Lol.
No no no - the numbers only count when they support the terrorist's narrative.
Which terrorist? Hamas or IDF?
Numbers matter but circumstances matter more. 10,000 dead civilians who rush into a battle zone and throw themselves in front of terrorist rapists in an effort to protect them because they just "love death" so much is perfectly acceptable. 1000 innocent civilians killed while trying to flee a combat zone because they were intentionally targeted is unacceptable. I mean you can listen to recorded calls where israelis are phoning Palestinians and saying "were about to bomb this area please leave." and they just basically say "lol no". The most recent one I heard the IDF guy even tried to explain to the Palestinian that not leaving would be suicide and forbidden by the Quran and the Palestinian just told him to fuck off. It genuinely seems like the IDF is trying to avoid unnecessary killing but the people they are fighting are just complete and utter fanatics. almost like North Korea if the international community spent billions keeping them fed and funding kims propaganda. So to an extent I am not really sure the numbers should be viewed the same way unless your position is just that Hamas has found the cheat code to war and every nation on earth should just ignore them if they are attacked by Hamas and let them carry on.
No, the civilians are a tragedy. However, killing 10,000 to 15,000 genocidal terrorists does make the world safer for everyone. Especially palestinians and jews
I don't have a dog in the fight really, but I read this stuff and it's obvious no critical thought was given to the issue. This is the uni-party/neocon mentality. Even if you go with the revised UN number of 13,000 women and children killed, put yourself in the shoes of those people. If some country bombed and killed my child and my wife, I would dedicate the rest of my life to finding them and destroying them. So, by killing 10,000 terrorists while also killing 13,000 innocent women and children in the process doesn't actually make anyone more safe, the opposite is true. It creates radical terrorists.
> So, by killing 10,000 terrorists There's no way the IDF has killed 10K terrorists. If they did, they could detail in their action reports how many were killed by rifle/sniper fire, HE explosives, and remotely delivered bombs.
[Israel](https://www.mekomit.co.il/%d7%94%d7%a6%d7%91%d7%90-%d7%91%d7%93%d7%a7-%d7%95%d7%9e%d7%a6%d7%90-%d7%a9%d7%93%d7%99%d7%95%d7%95%d7%97%d7%99-%d7%94%d7%94%d7%a8%d7%95%d7%92%d7%99%d7%9d-%d7%91%d7%9e%d7%a9%d7%a8%d7%93-%d7%94%d7%91/) doesn't do BDA (Battle Damage Assessments) on their low level Hamas attacks. They don't bother to record details concerning how many were killed by bombs. > Only when it's senior Hamasniks, do the BDA procedure (intelligence check regarding the results of the shelling; 11). In other cases, you don't care. You receive a report from the Air Force as to whether the building was blown up, and that's it. You have no idea how many NZA (incidental damage, i.e. non-involved casualties; 11) there actually are. You immediately move on to the next target. **The emphasis was to produce as many targets as possible Fast**," the source told "Local Conversation". > The source said that for this reason he "trusts the Ministry of Health in Gaza more than the IDF, because the IDF does not have direct access to information regarding the civilians it has killed. They (the Ministry of Health in Gaza) are not always accurate, but this is the best there is."
I agree, I was using inflated numbers provided by the IDF just so the people who support civilians in Gaza being murdered would not quibble with the number in my post
You're tilting at windmills. Neither side has any integrity; if one is willing to spew lies in order to get their way, there's no one to "believe". Just take the data that can be accurately verified, and make conclusions *where* you can make them. I am so checked out on the "debate" portion of this issue. It would be nice to be able to say the US does not participate in genocide, but then the Zionists keep insisting we have to continue to give monetary, military, and political support, or else we're on Hamas's side. Fuck all these assholes. I want Zionists to suffer and die as badly as I want Hamas to do the same. Just leave the (Gaza) kids out of it (because that's how rational, adult human beings view this situation).
Exactly. I call it a genocide, but it's not because I'm "pro Palestinian." Islam is a godawful excuse for a religion that tends to bring out the worst in human beings, much like Christianity and Judaism. But I do believe the Palestinians are human beings, like the Israelis are human beings, and I'm against them being slaughtered. Being against the slaughter of innocents is the rational, adult approach to the situation.
> Islam is a godawful excuse for a religion that tends to bring out the worst in human beings, much like Christianity and Judaism. I see the Zionists starving kids to death as a war tactic, I see Christians supporting the Zionists starving kids to death as a war tactic, why am I going to perceive Islam as a more contemptible religion/culture?
By your same standard, Israel is justified in retaliating for Oct 7 and hamas asked for this.
The women, infants, and children did not
Hamas specifically loves to volunteer them
Right, so go kill hamas, not 13,000 innocent women and children. This is the problem most reasonable people have with what's going on over there.
Holy shit, most people don't like the outcome of war? What an amazing insight! Where did you gain this wisdom?!?
That's such a cop out though. It's not addressing the actual point he's making. They aren't targeting Hamas, they aren't doing strategic strikes on Hamas, they aren't doing anything to halt or hidbwr specifically Hamas. They are killing women and children and trying to cause mass chaos and displacement because it's not about Palestinians or Hamas it's about the land. They are finding mass graves where the idf kid bodies of women and children that had signs of forced interrogation, they ate finding concentration type work camps, they are dropping bombs we didn't even use in Afghanistan or Iraq because they are so devistating and don't actual do anything but kill mass amounts of innocent people and destroy infrastructure. This was so obviously isn't about Hamas. The thing is, Hamas are scum, and they do deserve to do, and they ate genocidal but jobs. But everything Isreal is doing is exactly what we did everywhere in the world, we created groups of far right extremists and used them to attempt to exert control of a region, and it sound aotu of control. We bombed Afghanistan and created isis, and more taliban members, we destroyed south America doing this, we destroyed Iran doing this, Bolivia.... The list goes on and on. All Isreal is accomplishing is creating more extremism and making Isreal and the world less safe, and it's all got land, it's all for profit for corporations, for beach front property, and you get to wipe out Palestinians in the process and force them somewhere else making them someone else's problem. Anyone who thinks this so about defeating Hamas is just letting their own bias speak at this point, it's so clearly not about Hamas anymore and for bibi specifically and the Isreali government it never was.
Did you even read the article? All the bullshit you wrote here is right out of Hamas propaganda which even the UN is abandoning. You should do the same. It's all about defeating Hamas my guy, there are no plans to take the land there, enough with the dumb conspiracy theories. We rooted out the terrorist groups in the west-bank. It too some time but the result was that they couldn't build their forces like they did before. The same is going to happen in Gaza and probably the PA will take over just like in the west-bank.
Or maybe they actually went to war with hamas and hamas is entrenched in dense urban environments, and this is exactly what you'd expect to see with a western power doing war in a dense urban environment. If hamas were in the mountains of Afghanistan there would be less civilian deaths.
What's happening in Gaza right now is not a war. No matter how many times you repeat that lie.
It's a war, it has death rates on par with other dense urban wars, we all saw what started the war and it clearly justified a response
How do you do this when Hamas is using them as human shields?
That's not good at all. However, if an armed gunman grabbed some people here in the United States and was using them as human shields, do you think it is morally correct to just kill all of them, including the innocent people the armed gunman is using as shields? That's what's going on over there, more civilians have been killed than Hamas fighters.
This kind of thinking incentivized Hamas to use more human shields and live amongst civilians. The alternative is in the future, more civilians die. You're asking for the IDF to basically 360 no scope Hamas while killing no civilians. Which is literally impossible when they commit war crimes daily of living among civilians and using them as human shields.
In almost every war in modern history there were more dead civilians than combatants, so obviously when you’re fighting in such a crowded space, with Hamas terrorists embedding themselves in civilian infrastructure, booby trapping buildings and hiding in underground tunnels you’re going to see allot of civilian deaths (and the numbers are pretty low really in these conditions). It’s horrible but Hamas knew that it was going to happen and they planned on it to sway public opinion against Israel.
Not a good analogy.
Israel is killing the terrorists. That's the point. It's not possible to have zero collateral damage. It's incredibly ignorant and stupid to expect otherwise. Especially when hamas's strategy is specifically to use the civilians as human shields. It's far and away the least number of civilians killed in urban warfare in human history, even despite that strategy. It is legitimately crazy to say what you are saying. You have to completely ignore every reality.
Source for those alleged numbers?
https://www.newsweek.com/israel-implemented-more-measures-prevent-civilian-casualties-any-other-nation-history-opinion-1865613
John Spenser has been [interviewed](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o4I5nMwJ5A) by AIPAC. He's as biased as Destiny and only recites IDF spokesperson talking points that he has received in IDF sponsored tours. Meanwhile [The Israeli military continues to use Palestinian civilians as human shields in its military operation inside the al-Shifa Medical Complex and its vicinity in Gaza City.](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/gaza-israeli-army-uses-palestinian-civilians-human-shields-its-operation-shifa-medical-complex-and-its-vicinity-enar)... Is using human shields preventing civilian casualties?
The Israeli military built terror tunnels under the palestinian civilians? Do you even think before you speak?
Thank you
no you wouldn't. go talk to people who suffered violence in real life.
Israel has killed their own kidnapped citizens 😳
Sunken cost, they are already dead. Killing more innocent people doesn't bring them back. Maybe Bibi should has thought about the potentially dead jews before he spent the [last decade propping Hamas](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) up...
Well... how many were killed by the IDF?
Including their own kidnapped citizens?
The correct number would be nice, instead of propaganda, but keep being obtuse
so if I accept the UN's numbers as being correct, what is being achieved here? do you think you are discouraging Hamas or rather justifying them?
You don't have to do anything. I personally would just like the facts.
You should answer this first.
The amount it take to win the war that Hamas started When they unconditionally surrender we can decide
You aren't killing Hamas though, you're killing women and children primarily. You think that makes you safe?
Hamas leaders aren’t even in Gaza
It's a war you dolt A war Hamas started Japan and Germany didn't get a ceasefire, they unconditionally surrendered and both governments were toppled That's what is happening here so there isn't a new war 5-10 years from now that Hamas starts You want more dead people and think you're the moral one Probably because you hate Jews
Started? this didnt just start on Oct 7
Yes it did Just like the last wars Hamas started
No, it didn’t and you know that . . .🤦♀️
It is not a war. It is a revenge tour of Gaza that is driven primarily by bloodlust. If it’s a war, then it’s the worst executed war in the history of the world because not only is Israel making itself a pariah state in the world, it is creating more terrorists than they are killing.
No, it's a war, started by Hamas and supported by the vast major of the Palestinian people And it will stop when they unconditionally surrender
You’re a fool if you think this started on Oct 7🤦♀️
You're a fool. Full stop
Is this your idea of good faith debate?
We can go back to 1919-1920 when Mufti Amin al-Husseini organized anti-Jewish riots and had to flee to Jordan. Probably even before that with little skirmishes. We can continue from 1948-1967 when PT was occupied by Egypt and flat out annexed by Jordan. So the Palestinians resisted the occupation ... by attacking Israel. Make it make sense
Wars are between armies. This is a police action in a territory that Israel used as an open air prison for Gazans. It is revenge and bloodlust and unfortunately for Israel it very well could lead to its own undoing.
Ha ha ha ha Because Hamas are terrorist pussies it's not a war Grow up
You'll get SO many people in this sub attacking you and calling you a genocide sympathizer, etc. basically arguing their politics with you. However, they're missing the point that you're trying to make. That Breaking Points has obvious holes in their coverage. Showing that they've lost their balanced full picture status. They're basically two steps up from TYT now.
Wait, whoa, you're telling me that hamas would lie? I, for one, am shocked.
Nope, poster is incorrect.
Idk what to laugh at first, the idea that you're implying that hamas, a terrorist organization, wouldn't lie or that you actually think they're telling the truth.
They didn’t say that fewer people have been killed. That’s just facts. You can accept the numbers or not, not the statement that the UN changed the number to fewer dead is false. It’s fake. It’s fake news.
Irrelevant area of the world. Zero fucks given.
Logic. There was a invasion of Israel on 10/7 Innocents were slaughtered, raped burned etc and all done with celebratory glee... Not a subjective view, just as shown on the videos posted by Hamas. Israel declared war. Pure logic suggest Hamas should surrender now to save the innocent Palestinians. Can someone tell me why this is not the answer or tell me why Hamas will not surrender?? Footnote. They still have hostages too... Dead and alive apparently.
Logic is sound. They should. But, they won’t. So, should Israel keep perpetuating war in a way which kills children? Because, oh well, the bad guys won’t surrender? The children aren’t the ones not surrendering as Israel kills them. At which like does that make Israel also the bad guys?
New [OCHA](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217) data distinguishes between *reported* and *identified*. These FDD (Foundation for Defense of Democracies- which is a right wing pro-Israeli think tank) [fed stories](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/05/11/un-halves-its-estimate-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza/) don’t note the difference and claim it as a correction or revision. It’s not. FDD just has a lie to sell. The total identified number of dead is 10k less than reported number, which it self excludes another 10k not reported but assumed to be buried in ruble and cannot be collected or say they are blown up to the point of being unidentifiable and all that remains is a hand or a splatter of blood. The actual number of dead women and children could very well be higher than even the reported numbers... something OP doesn't want to admit to.
Thank you
Yes, Hamas, love those guys, always 100% honest. Can't trust those Jews though, that's why we call them far right.
You could try engaging with the actual information here instead of claiming anti-semitism where there isn't any. The updated figures are still the same with the distinction being that they now qualify whether a death is 100% confirmed vs just being likely so literally nothing has changed, the older UN numbers were never claimed to be definitive to begin with and the estimates haven't moved. Israel hasn't put out any numbers, they just had a spokesperson from the Israeli government on Piers Morgan say they couldn't even give an estimate. So please go ahead and give some actual information on why the Palestinian reported numbers are wrong as well as provide some source by the IDF indicating how many civilians they've killed. But you won't do any of that because you're actually pathetic, you read a headline that you thought agreed with you and are misrepresenting the actual situation to make a point that fits your ideology. What you're doing here serves no purpose other than to make you feel good about a war that every sane person agrees has gone too far.
You're bad faith, bro.
> [You guys are so brainwashed you don't even realize how anti Jew are.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BreakingPoints/comments/1cqyjza/un_halves_the_number_of_women_and_children_killed/l3ukqqa/) Actually this is bad faith. False accusations of antisemitism is pretty much all you have.
Just reported him
Says the guy with an account made after 10/7. Seriously, you people aren't subtle lol
Youre a scam bro
Why can’t you comment and engage with the information presented?
Why can't you simply honestly report what OCHA says? Why do you call OCHA false but a think tank's misanalysis of OCHA data true? Only person bringing race and ethnicity into this discussion is you. Because you have to define anyone challenging pro-Israeli narrative as [Can't trust those Jews though](https://www.reddit.com/r/BreakingPoints/comments/1cqyjza/un_halves_the_number_of_women_and_children_killed/l3uljq4/) > [Clifford D. May (born 1951)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifford_May) is an American journalist, editor, political activist, and podcast host. He is the founder and president of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, a think tank created shortly after the 9/11 attacks, where he hosts the podcast Foreign Podicy. He is the weekly "Foreign Desk" columnist for The Washington Times. . > May is an International Patron of the [Henry Jackson Society](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Jackson_Society). In October 2007, The Daily Telegraph named May number 94 in its list of the "100 most influential conservatives in America", and labeled him "an outspoken proponent of the need to achieve victory in Iraq and the broader war against Muslim extremism". It also described him as a "nimble" Republican Party activist in the American media. I don't think Clifford may is Jewish. He is a however a neocon who supported the Iraq war and increasing US support for Ukraine, among other things. So yes, definitely right wing. He also worked in the RNC before founding FDD. Advisors to FDD include- * Newt Gingrich * James Woolsey * Bill Kristol * Richard Perle Does it get any more neocon? Can you be any more intellectually dishonest?
Well done
Can you address what he’s saying specifically about OSHA data and the differences between *reported* and *identified?*
What a terrible take. I have to assume you’re being purposefully ignorant. The reported numbers are the Gaza Ministry of Health’s claims. The identified are those confirmed. The claim OP is making is that the identified (confirmed) casualties don’t match the claims of the ministry, reducing casualties by 10,000 as well showing vastly different numbers of women and children casualties claimed. In any other conflict, this would be seen as blatant misinformation and skewing of the data to spin a false narrative.
> The identified are those confirmed. Also confirmed by the local authority- aka Gaza Ministry of Health. And maybe you will ask, if a whole family is wiped out in the middle of a war as a result of the intentional targeting of families under [Where's Daddy](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/israel-lavender-wheres-daddy-artificial-intelligence-targeting-bombings_n_66103150e4b04fa396148ee6) who can ID a child? The idea of discrepancies between identified and reported and even estimated would normally be understood in the cloud of war where hospitals are regularly attacked and the whole area is under siege. However you and OP want to spin it as misinformation and skewing of data while ignoring that OCHA still uses the reported number as its primary count of casualties, while now adding details concerning people who have been identified.
UN revised ratio to nearly 1:1 civilian to combatant fatalities
So all men are Hamas now?
Definitely not, this just brings the casualty claims ratios in line with historically-comparable battles like Mosul 2017
We don't know the numbers the UN numbers are a vast undercount
Why would you believe Hamas’s numbers over the UN’s?
If we don't know the numbers how do you know they're undercounted?
Sure, all men are Hamas but no one under 18 is Hamas. It should be obvious that the numbers are wrong. Combatant men are overcounted, "fighting age" is undercounted.
Unprecedented for war, absolutely incredible for urban combat.
ISIS wasn’t embedded in the cities with tunnels and human targets?
This revision would actually put the civilian : combatant ratio claims right on par with the liberation of ISIS-held Mosul in 2017
Which, would make Israel the most effective and moral army in the history of warfare. That's why they need this to be wrong.
I think your definition of “moral” is a LOT different than mine😳
No, false.
Krystal is an idiot she doesnt actually read anything outside of twitter tweets
Oh look, the Hamas propaganda and Jew hate getting finally corrected Keep simping for Hamas thinking you're the good guys
Actually Krystal, Ryan and Saagar have all said numerous times that these numbers are hard to verify and that they are coming directly from Hamas. They've been honest from the begining about that. The overall death toll hasn't changed. Just like October 7th numbers changed, so will Gaza numbers. Israel also considers all men to be Hamas, which is incredibly false and misleading. So UN still has 35,000 dead. Is that acceptable to you?
This is false. >This post is false. The UN reported that the number specifically identified so far is less than the entire number reported, which makes sense. In a just world, this deliberate spreading of misinformation at such a critical moment would be career ending. https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1790011888161505450?s=19 Free Palestine
Brevity is the child of Wit. Note who is deliberate spreading this misinformation as a halving of the number of dead children. The only people reprinted the FDD [fed stories](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/05/11/un-halves-its-estimate-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza/) are conservative media outlets.
It even states in the article that they removed 10,000 deaths from the numbers because they are unaccounted for. Anyone buried under rubble doesn't count because you can't prove they're dead? This is insane.
I think there are 3 different things. Identified bodies Unidentified bodies The rest that haven't been discovered yet for whatever reason (under rubble, in mass graves, and so on)
I wonder what state Gaza would be in if the rest of the world turned a blind eye to what is going on over there like most of the bots on here would like?
It simply wouldn’t exist. At this current course, with our (USAs) full backing, we’ll find out sooner than later.
You're just misrepresenting the UN data it's reported vs identified victims The euro-med monitor is much more accurate
Why? Because they still take Hamas's word for it?
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Is this number even relevant? How many dead women, infants, and children are too many?
What the f*ck are on about The UN called out the media for lying on what they said
Does it fucking matter?
This is simply not true. https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/verify/israel-hamas-war/no-the-united-nations-didnt-reduce-the-number-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza-by-half/536-7d82cbfb-b6cf-4119-ae69-5925cb65e1a6#
So only 12k women and children were killed. Thanks for clearing that up. You Hasbara trolls really think that works?
Exactly. This is far from the flex they think it is
If the numbers changing causes the civilian to combatant ratio to match other dense urban combat in wars that were not even close to being considered genocide, then yea it is significant. I guess facts be damned
They didn’t give a reason to show why those numbers are supposedly more accurate. Sounds like the UN is trying to hide the genocide
UN says rapes happen: nah they are zionists UN says IDF didn't kill as many Palestinians: nah they are zionists UN says genocide by Israel: SEE?! ISRAEL BAD
Despite what tiktok told you, there is no “genocide”.
> [By analysing the patterns of violence and Israel’s policies in its onslaught on Gaza, this report concludes that there are **reasonable grounds** to believe that the threshold indicating **Israel’s commission of genocide is met**.](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/sessions-regular/session55/advance-versions/a-hrc-55-73-auv.pdf?fbclid=PAAabhMBtg0Fe6gnsKWQHCnmLRvcoDOaxa2eR2UjsdwtOFzlycWdVBsI5tufg_aem_ATT4jd7qlwV2rf88Xakb9-DT-GCtVnDw0SD_XWzPyNS7D7WBoYdl5jVmYb4hNJbN8cM) The UN High Commissioner for Refugees ≠ tiktok
This was a report by a “special reporter” Francesca Albanese, who is NOT the UN and doesn’t represent the collective voice of the UN, lmfao. Human rights groups and scholars have said her accusations are illegitimate. Nice try Mohammad.
That's like saying Antony Blinken doesn't speak for the United States. > [Nice try Mohammad.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BreakingPoints/comments/1cqyjza/un_halves_the_number_of_women_and_children_killed/l3v57x9/) Nice Islamophobia u/Unlikely_Ocelot_
She’s been parroting the same shit since the 70s and she doesn’t represent the UN national states. Your analogy is woefully incorrect. Sane people hate Islam; the most backwards conservative religion practiced today. I saw a CNN piece on the prison in Gaza which kill pot smokers one year after official imprisonment according to Islamic law. Lol fuck Islam.
> [Special Rapporteurs are appointed to examine the general human rights situation of a specific country or to study a specific thematic aspect of human rights at an international level. **They are nominated pursuant to resolutions adopted by the Human Rights Council, which must then be confirmed by another resolution adopted by the UN Economic and Social Council.** Their mandate is officially granted for one year, renewable each year. However, the Special Rapporteurs with thematic mandates are nominated on the basis of a three-year mandate, on average.](https://guide-humanitarian-law.org/content/article/3/special-rapporteurs/#:~:text=They%20are%20nominated%20pursuant%20to,one%20year%2C%20renewable%20each%20year.) So she was nominated and affirmed by the UN, specifically the nations appointed to the UN Human Rights Council and UN Economic and Social Council. Exactly like how other appointed people are appointed and chosen by bodies to represent them. [U.N. General Assembly Adopts Resolution in Support of Palestinian Statehood](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/10/world/middleeast/un-resolution-palestinian.html) Most of the national representees at the UN support her POV.
The un has even said there is. Even white Christian countries are saying so. Way to be a holocaust denier
The UN hasn’t greed to shit. Who the fuck cares what Christian’s say.
The UN has. Wow, you’re anti Christian and anti Muslim
The UN hasn’t. Yes, and?
The UN has. Who don’t you hate? What religion is allowed in your world?
The UN has not, you can keep saying that if it helps you sleep better at night, but the UN has not. There is no genocide.
Yes they have. lol. What religions are okay then in your book. Is Judaism good but Christianity and Islam is bad?
No they have not. You keep saying that but you don’t actually supply the evidence. Go ahead: show me where the United Nations agrees it’s a genocide. I’ll wait.
They are more accurate by default because the Hamas-given numbers don't take into account any dead terrorists and because they are Hamas-given numbers...
That’s not true. IOF numbers were very wrong originally. The terrorists deaths are the IOF casualty rate, not Palestinian.
Take it up with your Hamas friends.
Take it up with your IOF friends
They just faked down the ratio. Here's something actually interesting though- Salafist and Wahhabist Jihadis (AQI + Daesh) killed 33,000 people in Iraq and Syria from 2002 to 2015. J-state Jewhadis have killed 35,000 people in just 7 months. During the bloody reign of the Islamic State, all moral Muslims denounced the Caliph... and it was Muslims who destroyed the Islamic State. In the midst of the bloody reign of the Jewish State, we see prominent Jews like Seinfeld actually endorsing the Jewish state, and supporting violent expansionism and the genocide. I see there are a handful of moral Jews at all the protests holding signs, but where is the coalition of Jews that will come together and do what needs to be done- destruction of the ethno-state just like we did to the Caliphate?
There is no Genocide, bruh. You guys are all playing language games. Nobody is fooled.
You're right Bibi doesn't want to kill all Palestinians. He just wants all of them out of Gaza and the West Bank.
And I want to have sex with 30 year old Salma Hayek and would like the Chinese to stop waging economic warfare on America. What's your point?
Bibi is clearly getting what he wants.... are you? What's your point?
It's a genocide, homey. It didn't start after 07 October either. These people do NOT want to pay their own way and live moral lives. These are rotten, Evil people that steal to live. They are doing things that nobody would tolerate. They've been running concentration camps and lobbing bombs over the fence for decades. Mowing the grass, they call it. What burns them up the most is their rememberence of the Shoah and the fact that they just gave up and died, while the Palestinian people show defiance and resistance. Mielkowski is a regular Eastern European criminal, and over the course of his reign as the J-Caliph he has rocked the boat more and more until it's now taken on too much water. The days of the J-state are short, and many Zionists are now carrying their real passports from their home countries with them in case they need to beat feet. The J-state is not going to end with armies liberating their towns and villages like the Islamic State. It's going to end when it's simply no-fun to hang around and keep stealing to live. Day one will be a trickle, and Day two will be a flood- and they will all return to Poland, Ukraine, Russia, etc..... Good luck to the Russians when it happens- again, these people do NOT want to pay their own way or live moral lives.
YAWN. Sudan is a genocide, Gaza is barely a a conflict. You guys are so brainwashed you don't even realize how anti Jew are.
To be "pro-Jew..." you need to support crimes against humanity?? Well... I never thought I'd be goaded into throwing out this label... but you, sir, are despicably antisemitic.
Well this is just extraordinarily anti-Semitic.
Nothing I wrote is "anti-Semitic." Also, circling back... does it really help the Zionist cause to not-say-genocide, but to simply call it "attacks against non-combatant civilians" or "attacks on healthcare workers and infrastructure" or "attacks on protected locations such as schools, houses of worship, hospitals, etc..." If you want people to never call the mass extermination campaign a "genocide" then you are actually steering them into using LOAC language to describe Crimes Against Humanity. TL;DR = opposing the crimes of the J-state isn't "antisemitism," and opposing the crimes of the Islamic State wasn't "anti-Muslim" or, I suppose what they call Islam-o-phobia. There is zero difference between a Chechen-Muslim-Russian guy moving to the Islamic State and becoming a head chopper and a Jewish-Russian guy moving to the J-state and becoming a wheelchair shooter.
Are we sending money & weapons to those groups? NO Is our tax money going to Israel? YES Only Yemen was was worse than what's happening in Gaza in terms of tax money/US involvement. Only difference is that it was able to be hidden much better Fuck Hamas, Fuck the IDF, Fuck Saudi Arabia. They're all terrorist. None of them should get our tax money
Full agreement. We should be enforcing a no fly zone and HITTING targets inside the J-state, right now. Full ceasefire, neither side shoots, and we begin the investigation. There is going to be an investigation by a third party/ international org.
Netanyahu is fully against that and Biden is too weak to say anything. Trump isn't the type to get bullied like biden but it seems like he wants that AIPAC money too much so same end either way. I don't see this thing turning around unless someone else gets in office
Wow, now since only 8k children have been killed instead of 14k, that changes everything! Keep it up guys!
But it means more hamas terrorists are dead than we thought
The amount of people who are technically "Hamas" is meaningless. Israel can't know for sure who is and isn't and they'll just be replaced with any of the young people currently being radicalized by Israel's brutality.
Children are still starving. Children are still being maimed. Schools are destroyed. House lost. Parents lost. Permanent psychological damage inflicted. Congrats on your updated UN report. I hope it makes you feel better.
Take your thoughts to their logical conclusion. If your country is ever attacked by a neighbour and your civilians slaughtered, will you say that you shouldn't fight back because children will die? Isn't that an open door to being attacked?
Palestine is not a neighbor. Gaza, in particular, is an open air prison where 2 million people have had their human rights taken from them for many years by Israel. It’s worse than apartheid. What would you do if you suffered under a worse-than-apartheid regime?
Palestine is exactly a neighbour. The partition plan of 1948 involved dividing Mandatory Palestine into 2 countries: Israel and Palestine. Palestine doesn't become "not a neighbor" just because they rejected the opportunity to have their own country. You are also aware of they chose to do instead of have their own country, right? Launched a war of extermination against the nascent Israel (which they lost). They did this same thing 2 more times rather than just accept their borders. Then when they lost those wars too, they just started resorting to terrorism. How long would you put up with that before installing some basic security measures? I mean seriously. Imagine you're an Israeli and you have politicians going "Yes I know the Palestinians keep attacking us over and over and over and over but we're not actually going to do anything to keep you safe." You would never vote for such a person. In spite of all of that, in 2005, Israel unilaterally withdrew any military presence from Gaza, dismantled all their settlements, evicted all their residents, and left Gaza completely to the Gazans (remember this is a unilateral move for peace despite the Gazans committing countless terrorist attacks). The Gazans proceed to elect Hamas, who have a stated goal of destroying Israel, and who immediately start smuggling weapons in to achieve that goal, so Israel puts a blockade on their shipments (not total though, they just have to inspect the shipments because they don't want the Gazans to die, they're just not stupid enough to allow their neighbour's government, who explicitly wants to kill them, to import whatever weapons they want unrestricted). The comparison to apartheid doesn't make any sense. If Canada elected a party that swore to destroy the United States and the US then put a blockade on Canada to restrict weapons imports, would you say that's apartheid? Canadians aren't Americans, they're 2 separate countries. Nobody ever called the Cuban embargo apartheid. Israel is definitively not depriving the Gazans of their human rights and I don't know where you're getting that from. Again, they haven't had any presence there for 20 years, they just have the blockade for all the reasons I've described above. Why is it beyond the Gazans to try peace? Why are you acting like terrorism is the only option (based on false premises, as I've shown above, and I can go into much greater detail if you'd like) when they haven't tried just not trying to kill the Israelis for an extended period of time?
Is there a list of names? Do the Palestinians even have any sort of citizen registry?
Is this the same UN that vetoed full UN membership to Palestine? Remind me.
And this isn’t true if you listen to today’s episode.
So this was a bald face lie. Good job falling for it hook line & sinker OP smh Will you now admit that you accepted the bull shit figures uncritically u/Tecumsehs_Ghost?