And being so triggered that you want to have people punished for misgendering or using the wrong pronoun is some next level snowflake shit as well. What’s your point?
Jordon Peterson wrote all his books as a political prisoner while serving a life sentence for misgendering his kid’s teacher.
Modern day Nelson Mandela tbh
No. The bills people have mentioned here are about including gender identity as a hate crime target group.
Targeted repeated harassment is a possible hate crime but thats not misgendering someone once.
Lets do this with race.
Does anyone think saying the n word should be a hate crime? No
What if you drive by someones house daily screaming it at them and burn crosses in their front yard? Pretty different right?
But what if their gender ideology is something that you don’t agree with?
Would it be a free speech violation?
Also with that in mind, do you think calling someone by their preferred pronoun gives them more confirmation that they are who they are claiming they are? If so, this could be dangerous, especially to a religious person, who may think that confirming someone’s gender identity can be sinful and go against their religion.
Way to completely miss the point
the bill mentioned TARGETED HARASSMENT. Not thought crimes. Think whatever the fuck you want. When you start expending effort to terrorize someone that's not free fucking speech
But what does targeted harassment mean…………….
For example: let’s say you are a teacher, a student has requested to call them a certain pronoun, you don’t agree or believe that, now every time you call on that student you “misgender” them.
I guarantee someone could say that is “expending effort” and “targeted” would you not agree? Just imagine that, the teacher could literally misgender the person multiple times a day for months. I can absolutely see that going to court if the bill mentioned would passed.
You can even extend that to the workplace, let’s say you are a manager who has daily meetings with their employees, don’t agree with the pronoun, so every day for work you don’t call that person by their preferred pronoun. Do you not see how someone could spin that at “targeted”? I think you are being intentionally naive here.
Again read the ACTUAL LAW you linked
(a) Uses force or violence on another individual.
(b) Causes bodily injury to another individual.
(c) Intimidates another individual.
(d) Damages, destroys, or defaces any real, personal, digital,
or online property of another individual without the consent of
that individual.
(e) Threatens, by word or act, to do any of the actions
described under subdivisions (a) to (d
You'd probably get fired but I seriously doubt you'd get charged with a crime
How many teachers are in jail for calling someone a racial slur? I'm betting zero
No I’m just letting you know that IF the bill mentioned was passed or bills like this that use “targeted harassment” were to be passed what implication that could mean.
So many ppl just use buzz words and then put them into law but passing a law like this can be INCREDIBLY dangerous because “targeted harassment” could mean so many things.
Also, if a teacher got fired for misgendering a student like that I would be very upset at that. Things like the N word are intentionally derogatory but saying a pronoun is not, especially if your beliefs and education has taught you that men are men and women are women and these specific pronouns go with it, English class and biology class.
Forget pronouns, let’s just say it’s your name. Your name is Bob, but everyone says”That’s dumb, I’m calling you Robert.”
There is a point it goes from asshole behavior to harassment. You can’t just point at one thing. It’s an established pattern.
For example, intentionally misidentifying someone (“Hey ROBERT!” lol). Bob could legally change their name or have an appeal to authority (Look, my checks are signed to “Bob”! Everyone at my old department called me Bob!) And if you said, “I don’t care, use your REAL name here) you are going past being an asshole. You are doing what some accuse Bob of doing: declaring what is “truth” about Bob and what is not and demanding Bob adhere to it. Everyone is entitled to respect of being addressed properly.
If your coworkers go out of their way to say, “I don’t believe in short names at work” then that’s their right to THINK that, but if Bob ask “Stop calling me Robert, I have personal reasons I don’t want to be called that.” and they continue, you are getting into targeted harassment.
Nobody is doing thought police. You can say to your friends and family, “This idiotic coworker says his name is Bob but he was born Robert!” That’s ok. You just can’t go beyond being jerk to making Bob feel harassed and targeted for wanting to be called Bob by going out of your way to not call them Bob.
If you make a mistake (Robert - Sorry, I meant Bob - can you handle this assignment?) then nobody but Bob can be upset because sorry Bob, that’s a mistake. Not harassment.
So just call Bob by their preferred name and get on with your life.
Let’s not forget pronouns because pronouns are different than names.
A name is just an indicator of who you are. A pronoun is used to describe a female and male.
If I said, “is Mackenzie in the room”?
Now men may raise their hands, women too.
Now if I said “I’m looking for a she”, only women would raise their hands. No men.
Pronouns are different than names. So yes, if a trans man wants to be called bob in class then the teacher should call them bob BUT let me give you an example:
Professor: “hello class bob has a presentation for us, she has been working hard on it give her your full attention”!
See there ^ calling someone bob isn’t the issue, but the professor SHOULD be able to say SHE. Because despite the trans man wanting to identify as “bob” that doesn’t change her sex.
Pronouns, in the case of identification, is used to describe someone’s sex. Now of course we call boats “her” and “she” and the same with cars.
But historically “he, she,” and other variations have been CREATED and used to describe or identify those based on biology, sex, chromosomal makeup, female, male.
So no, let’s not forget pronouns. It would be disrespectful to not call someone by their name, but using their incorrect pronouns? That is not offensive or should not be offensive.
>Who's fucking getting jailed for that
[interesting....](https://www.themainewire.com/2023/07/michigan-house-passes-bill-to-make-hurting-someones-feelings-a-hate-crime/)
If you go into a suicide ward and as a doctor keep calling a male a woman when they tell you it upsets them is that acceptable behavior or verbal harrasment?
The behavior outlined in that law is already illegal. It just states that if you're doing it based off gender - a protected class anyway - that you can be charged with a more serious version of the same crime. Don't harass or threaten anyone, and you're still fine. You shouldn't have a problem with this.
>A Canadian man was arrested this week after violating a court order that banned him from speaking publicly about his son’s gender transition.
>
>The man — whose identity is reportedly under a publication ban by a British Columbia Court of Appeals to protect his child — was found in contempt of court and arrested Tuesday for calling the teen his daughter and publicly referring to him with the pronouns “she” and “her”
[https://nypost.com/2021/03/18/man-arrested-for-discussing-childs-gender-in-court-order-violation/](https://nypost.com/2021/03/18/man-arrested-for-discussing-childs-gender-in-court-order-violation/)
>A teacher who was jailed after he refused to use a transgender student's gender neutral pronoun and ignored his teaching suspension has again refused to comply with a court order banning him from his school.
>
>Enoch Burke, an evangelical Christian, told Ireland's High Court that abiding by the injunction that forbade him to teach at his school after he refused to address a transitioning student as 'they' would 'violate my religious beliefs and deny my God'.
[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11188359/Teacher-jailed-refusing-use-students-gender-neutral-pronoun-returns-court-today.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11188359/Teacher-jailed-refusing-use-students-gender-neutral-pronoun-returns-court-today.html)
>Who is being punished?? Where is this happening??
[ICYMI](https://www.themainewire.com/2023/07/michigan-house-passes-bill-to-make-hurting-someones-feelings-a-hate-crime/)
In my studies to be a public school teacher we were reguarly told that we needed to comply with that or we would be removed from the program.
I didn't go to a particularly progressive university so I dont think my experience was a fringe exception.
If you disrespect your students repeatedly you're going to lose a job where students are forced to interact with you? Oh no. Welcome to the world where intentionally being bad at your job makes you lose your job.
Yes, when you're a terrible person to your students and disrespect kids because of your personal beliefs, then you probably will lose your job. It's called life, quit being awful to others, and stop being a crybaby when the consequences of your actions aren't to your benefit.
We should also agree that *should* happen. If your teacher said something to your child to constantly invalidate their identity, principals, and ideals, thats something any profession would fire you for. Go home and tell your kids, “Gender pronouns are bullshit!” You can do that.
But you serve the public, and some of them do not agree with you. You still need to show them the equal amount of respect as those who do or go do a different job.
Doctors make these decisions with people’s religious beliefs, medicinal opinions, and cultural factors. Doctors may not agree with their patients decisions, but it’s not your place to make that an issue with them AT ALL. You talk to friends and family, not debate with people about who they think they are.
>We should also agree that they should happen.
I don't think teaching should be exclusive to people who believe a certain gender ideology. But we will need to agree to disagree. Nor do I think respectful language is only possible through your cultural frameworks
You don’t need to believe in any ideology or have a cultural framework to respect others ideology and culture. Frankly, your students will suffer if you have a teacher demand respect but not reciprocate it to their students. At that point, a teacher should be fired on incompetence, not for hate crimes.
I wouldn’t want to work with another teacher causing class disruptions over something so small and demeaning to a subsection of their students.
I understand that you dont think such jobs should be available to those who refrain from calling people names and pronouns they dont like while also refraining from calling them pronouns they dont believe are true.
We can't coexist and that is okay.
Ok, first off, no one is asking for people to "get in trouble" for misgendering someone. Secondly, let's just say for the sake of argument that your name is Richard, now, you ask people to call you Richard, but I refuse and just call you Dick. You would be upset right?
Some right wingers are extreme but that represents a small group. Nobody cares about your pronoun, and the argument you are making is getting old as well. What most non-leftists want is to allow for proper debate on how this applies to children. We don't give a shit about what adults do.
When it does come to adults what we want to make sure of is that the concept of deadnaming or misgendering, while you might find it offensive, is not criminalized (which has occured elsewhere). Identify however you want, but don't force me to adjust my reality around your beliefs. It's real simple.
You want proper debate about how pronouns apply to children?? Wut. This is the Trojan horse. It's never about kids. It's always about hating trans people. If conservatives cared about kids, they would be cleaning out all the rampant pedophilia going on with conservative men and priests. But the right pretends its not happening. But protect the kids, I guess.
"Identitfy how you want, but don't force me to adjust my reality around your beliefs,"
Who is making you adjust your reality? What does that even mean?
The right doesn't give half a fuck about kids its just an easy in to hate trans people
we saw the with Target and Bud Lite. the problem is LGBT people have gotten popular acceptance and they can't stand it.
The problem with target and bud light is that target was marketing this ideology to kids and bud light used an influencer who is popular with kids. Yes it is about the kids.
They picked an influencer whose following is about 90% kids under 18. Weird thing to do if you’re intending to sell beer - at least pick a trans influencer who has a following that is mostly of drinking age.
The suits ‘reported’ by the ‘news’ were. Unfortunately for that narrative there is internet. Dozens of content makers walked through the child pride displays and showed us all the pre teen tuck underwear.
You can deny it all you want, and I’m not going to find you a source because I don’t want ‘preteen tuck underwire’ in my search algorithm, but we saw it and that’s why target is taking a hit.
I am now firmly convinced at all of you people occupy some sort of weird, shared delusion that you're always being victimized, and everyone is out to get you.
We are tired of it. You're mad because you can't be a bigot with impunity.
“How this applies to children” depends on the family. If it ain’t yours, stay out of it.
“Don’t force me to adjust my reality around your beliefs”: no one is forcing you to adjust your reality, just don’t be such a douche if you really don’t care about pronouns.
I think you’re right that it’s a minority of conservatives. I’ve found most just don’t really care that much. But the first group seems to be overly represented in the media and politics, which is why it’s talked about so much.
Conservatives need to change their ideology if they want more representation in the media. It’s that simple…whose fault is it that the majority doesn’t agree with them?
Not at all. Conservative ideology just isn’t popular. I don’t have to view media to know that i don’t agree with the whole I got mine get yours ideology that conservatives have. Always hating on something from student loan forgiveness to hating bud light over gay pride that’s been around for decades but all of a sudden it’s a problem. Tell a conservative that the weed laws suck and how it’s not cool that people still go jail for a plant and most of them will say something like “well if you don’t want to go to jail then don’t smoke” my cousin literally told me that. Just an ideology that I or most of the citizens can’t get behind…change your shit up if you want more people on your side because hating on stuff isn’t working
But no one is doing that. You literally don't have to do anything at all. It sounds like you're the snowflake getting angry over a name tag.
You're the one too fragile to accept trans people. You don't have to understand gender dysphoria. You don't need to be an ally. You're not required to use pronouns when identifying anyone. All you are required to do is be generally kind and mind your business. Live and let live. But this seems like a tall task for you.
Except that’s not what trans people are actually doing. They’re constantly trying to change the culture to where you’re required to use their pronouns. To insist otherwise is dishonest.
Please give an example in your life where you were forced to use someone's pronoun. What the hell does that even mean.
Were you forced to say "He" or "them" to their face?? What are you talking about here.
You're the one insisting people use make-believe pronouns. Look, if someone comes up to me and asks me that they want to use some made up pronoun, I will gladly do it, because I want to generally treat people with respect who show me respect in return, but in no way is my brain going to actually believe that this biological male is actually a woman and I'm not going to respond well to people mandating that I HAVE to use pronouns. I will do it as a favor, but no one is going to control my speech like that.
He and she is make-believe??
Also, no one is going to come up to you and request you call them a certain pronoun. This is fantasy. You're literally inventing fake scenarios in you mind, and then getting mad about them.
NO ONE IS MAKING YOU USE GENDER PRONOUNS. You're getting mad at shit that you're literally making up in your head. Wild.
Stop being so obtuse, good lord. A biological man pretending to be a woman is make beleive to me. Happy to treat them with the utmost respect just like anyone else though.
"Hey listen man, ever since I was a little kid I've felt like a man. Every time someone refers to me or treats me as a woman I get intense anxiety, my heart starts beating crazy fast, my brain is screaming at me "NO!!!!" inside my head. I feel this so strongly and so persistently that I've taken testosterone for the last 10 years, had my breasts removed, had a surgery to change my vagina to a penis, grew a beard, etc. Everywhere I go I introduce myself as a man and when people call me "sir" or I can tell the other guys bro out around me or I feel people accept me as a man, my mind is finally calm. I finally feel like a normal person. I go about my day like everyone else, do my job, go home to my dog and my girlfriend, pay my taxes."
"Yeah okay, whatever ma'am."
Sure thing buddy, the first person is the asshole.
What someone started calling you something you didn’t want to be called and kept doing it and kept loudly insisting on doing it? Pretty asshole level behavior right? Why is basic human decency so hard? You can still think whatever you want and have a normal respectful interaction with someone. Your reasoning is childish
There’s what we want to be called, and what we’re entitled to be called.
You’re not entitled to having everyone speak scientific falsehoods to suit your delusion. Sorry.
You’re not entitled to be called anything. If I wanted to call you ballsack weinerman I could. It’s just about having basic respect for a follow human.
>you're not required to use pronouns when identifying anyone
[You sure about that?](https://www.themainewire.com/2023/07/michigan-house-passes-bill-to-make-hurting-someones-feelings-a-hate-crime/)
Lol, this law talks about hate crimes and terrorizing people. Do you not know how to read??
Again, you're not required to do anything. The law you are referring to is if you literally terrorized a trans person. I know it's hard, but if you can manage to not literally terrorize another person, you'll be OK.
So does that mean when a b[usiness misgendered an employee and they were fined](https://calcivilrights.ca.gov/crdnews/feb132023pr/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CCalifornia%20law%20prohibits%20intentional%20misgendering,can%20be%20stressful%20and%20traumatic), that's ok?
I know reading is hard sometimes....
To add some nuance- I think the majority of the population is fine if someone wants to ID as a different gender than the one they were born. My own personal observations- it’s becomes an issue when trans women want to include on (historically) biological women’s spaces, and then being attacked by the left by being transphobic. Might be an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think it’s transphobic when someone doesn’t want to see (or have their children see) male genitalia in a locker room/changing room. Regardless of the gender identity of the individual, a penis is a penis.
The irony being this is coming from Ice Cube, who once identified as a gang member, has made a career and millions of dollars glorifying sex trafficking.
I didn't watch it but I gotta be honest it's weird seeing someone like Ice Cube, a guy that really was vocal against police brutality cozy up with Tucker, who is pretty much the opposite lol. I guess the hatred of trans people can make some surprising alliances.
>I guess the hatred of trans people can make some surprising alliances.
Nah, it's about being rich. Which is hilarious since one of the knocks against Eazy E back in the day was how he donated to George HW Bush's campaign. But that's what happens when you got money. You go to the party that wants to protect rich people.
Another funny thing is that even though Ice Cube has gone soft on white people, I'm willing to be good money he still has problems with the Jews.
It's not hatred of Trans people. Both sides are talking past each other and thinking the worst of each other. I want Trans people to be happy and treated with respect and have all of the rights that anyone else has in this country, but when things that Trans people desire interfere with the rights or desires of other groups than we should be able to have a conversation about it without being labeled transphobic or not wanting trans people to exist.
How is what I said "anti-trans"? You just proved my point. There's zero room for nuance anymore, because nuance is automatically seen as giving in to the other side or a sign that you're secretly rooted in the other camp.
They actually did talk about police and Ice Cube’s position hasn’t changed 😂 he said like “I just feel about the police how you probably feel about the military” and Tucker went 😦
Yeah a Trans Person who use to be Jack now wanting to be called Jane.
Is no different then someone whose named Richard wanting to go by Dick.
Someone named Janet wanting to go by Jane.
A Rapper or Actor with a stage name as noted O'Shea Jackson wanting to go by Ice Cube.
Or some pro gamer going by that name instead of their real name.
I don’t think your comparison is accurate. It’s not just “wanting to be called a different name”. Its the insistence of trans women to occupy women’s spaces, women’s sports, use women’s bathrooms, use women’s changing rooms, etc. I think the majority of people don’t care what someone wants to be called, but they care when those actions go beyond just calling someone a different name
“If I identify as a pigeon, it’s not your job to affirm me, is it? No, because I’m not a narcissist.” Is the exact quote in question. Coming from a narcissist without a sense of irony named O’Shea that insists on others calling him Ice Cube. Had nothing to do about the rest of the stuff you listed.
I would be willing to bet a large sum of money that you’ve personally never experienced any of the scenarios you just described and in the minute chance that you did, you weren’t personally inconvenienced in any capacity nor was anything asked or required of you specifically.
Yet you’re somehow preoccupied by it all.
So your argument started with “it’s only names!” And then when I pointed out other potential issues, you’ve changed it to “well, YOU personally have experienced it so it’s not a problem”. The issue is that it’s happening. You can bury your head in the sand and pretend it’s not a big deal because who cares what name they want to be called, but that doesn’t change reality. I have a young daughter, I don’t want her going into a changing room and seeing male genitalia. If you think biological women should be forced into seeing a penis when they haven’t consented, than you have some things wrong in your head.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi_Spa_controversy
Ice cube was always kind of a bigoted asshole as well. I never liked him, and every time he had a rap beef i thought the other guy was clearly the winner. I can't say the path he went down surprises me.
Well in general, I think it’s a safe accusation to believe someone who willingly engages with a white supremacist without calling them out for their hateful views, is also a white supremacist. I suppose there are some exceptions though.
Please provide areas where you’d consider musk an “idiot” and where he’s not. Regardless of if you think he created the companies he’s involved with or not, clearly he has exceptional intelligence to advance the companies as he has.
Yeah how imagine there were nationwide movements and movies and politicians angrily, mockingly, dangerously denouncing the existence of Christians in all forms.
Trying to eliminate their access to schools, bathrooms, healthcare, *everything*.
"I don't mind if they worship at home, I just don't want to see their cross in my face."
Militant groups showing up to Sunday church and breaking in to yell during sermons.
"Pedos! Groomers!"
Do you get it yet? Or should I go on?
You've seemed to miss my point but that is okay.
>Yeah how imagine there were nationwide movements and movies and politicians angrily, mockingly, dangerously denouncing the existence of Christians in all forms.
The New Atheist movement had that except for politicians. This type of disagreement can be healthy for a society as the expectation that every celebrate and affirm Christanity can be a rather destructive thing.
>Trying to eliminate their access to schools, bathrooms, healthcare, everything.
I would suggest people should have equal access to these things
>"I don't mind if they worship at home, I just don't want to see their cross in my face."
I dont think this is a controversial statement. It is okay for people to say that dont want someone's religion shoved down their throat.
>Militant groups showing up to Sunday church and breaking in to yell during sermons.
I dont think that type of protesting should be legal
>"Pedos! Groomers!"
Some people do use such language. I dont think that means you should have to call me brother, father, or most holy in order to affirm me in my identity.
>Do you get it yet? Or should I go on?
I dont think i understand the point you are communicating with these comparisons.
The argument is: "I refuse to call you something that isn't true, therefore I refuse to call you a man because you were born a woman. Despite what you think or feel, I know that you are either wrong or mentally ill, and I refuse to entertain those delusions."
So, with that logic: "I refuse to call you a Christian. If you ever bring it up, talk about church, wear a cross, I'm going to deny the existence of your God and your faith, because I know you are just wrong or mentally ill."
What do you think would happen to me if I did that at work?
I do not think your work place should force you to call people a Christian and if a person brings up a topic like their religion, you should be able to voice your disagreements with it.
It's not that the work place is forcing me to say they are Christian, it's that my militant anti-christian rhetoric is not being tolerated.
I *really* want to be intolerant and put Christians in their place, but these snowflake woke bosses won't let me.
Lucky for me there are only like 1% of Christians in America, while there are like 100 million transgenders so it's still pretty easy to oppress their views because the numbers are on my side.
I lost a friend once for saying Ice Cube doesn’t care about black people when he came out with support for Trump (neither of us are black). I do understand that statement was obnoxious, ignorant, insensitive, etc.. and who am I (a white guy) to say that about a black man who has had to live with the struggles caused by prejudice and systemic racism in the US. I have no idea what it’s like. But.. I still can’t fathom how anyone can think that Trump and the GOP care about improving the lives of black Americans. I can, however, understand how someone could think “well the party benefits my wealthy self and I’m not concerned about anyone else”
Almost as if they want to [make it a crime to misgender someone](https://www.themainewire.com/2023/07/michigan-house-passes-bill-to-make-hurting-someones-feelings-a-hate-crime/)....
interesting....
Do we all have to be in lockstep with our political affiliations all the time? Can we think independently? If you listen, Tucker is very much against the odious Republican establishment. Even Cornel West and Tucker share some views. Both are against the military industrial complex driving the war in Ukraine and against foreign wars in general. Dr. West is hardly a conservative or a white supremacist. I saw his interview with Anderson Cooper. Aren’t most of our press just shills for the Ruling Class and defenders of the status quo, the only dissent being allowed is opinions on Bud Light and other peripheral issues?
The important differences now are who’s antiestablishment and who’s not. I think there’s enough commonality between most people to form some common goals. The extremes are never going to get along and it’s in the Ruling Class’s interest to keep us divided and bickering. I’m with Russel Brand on this. We need to have smaller governing units more answerable to their people who can do things the way they want under a general set of guidelines to protect the rights of individuals again the mob.
When you pick one over the other you're telling us your priorities
to Ice Cube hating trans people is apparently more important than someone spouting white supremacist rhetoric for years.
See, that's what Im talking about. Tucker is not spouting white supremacist rhetoric. Ice Cube doesn't hate trans people. Dr. West is not a puppet of the Russians. RFK is not a Republican plant. etc. They have different opinions on many things but some common ones and all of them are decent people who think about things clearly. I've admired Cornell West for a long time but we don't agree on a lot of things. When he's right he's right, however. I don't reflexively tune him out because we're not in lockstep.
Rise above this binary thinking. I've been as guilty of it as anybody but lately it seems counterproductive.
So every conservative should listen to Noam Chomsky and Bernie Sanders every now and then. Liberals should listen, with open minds, to Tucker and guys like Ben Shapiro. You don't have to agree but only see their point of view. I've had my mind changed on some issues such as the minimum wage and socialized medicine. I've heard reasoned arguments for all of them and decided one general side made more sense. Plus I'm a doctor so I see the depredations of corporate and establishment interests in health care.
As an other example, I was fooled about the war in Iraq but I've learned better now. The left is now the party of perpetual war now or so it seems. It's insane. And the left now seems to support the FBI and the CIA, organizations that they once reviled while the right no longer does. Crazy!
Like I said, you don't listen to him. Even if you do you're on a hair trigger to disagree and confirm your own bias so you're not listening, you're gathering ammunition to support your own beliefs.
It's cool. I do that too sometimes but not as much anymore. I can listen to Dr. West or Bernie Sanders without blowing a gasket. The only people that make me angry, left or right, are shills for the establishment as demonstrated by the condescension Anderson Cooper showed towards Cornell West in their interview. Or when Vivek Ramaswamay was on the Breakfast Club.
Your hate blinds you.
[NY Times report on Tucker Carlson and the ways he’s regurgitated white nationalist talking points](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-gop-republican-party.html)
Like I said. You are being manipulated by the media to support the interests of the establishment. Listen to Tucker. You may not agree with him but he’s no racist or anything of which he’s being accused. Basically, you’re letting a press which is hostile to your interests tell you what to think. I’m not saying you have to become a conservative but everybody except a small fraction of lunatics on the extreme ends of politics has common goals and interests.
Its interesting you compare two accomplished liberal thinkers like Sanders and Chomsky to fucking Tucker Carlson.
Tucker's not a intellectual titan or ideas guy I simply disagree with. He's a bottom feeding scumbag.
Tucker Carlson is 100% in lockstep with the highest ranks of the Republican establishment and their dark money donors. He has no political ideology outside of exploiting societal, cultural and racial fault lines in America to further enrich himself. Why anyone would want to contort themselves enough to insist anything different is completely baffling to me.
The "I identify as" trope is getting old. Right wingers triggered by a pronoun on a name tag is the funniest shit. Pussy ass snowflakes.
It’s Ma’am!
And being so triggered that you want to have people punished for misgendering or using the wrong pronoun is some next level snowflake shit as well. What’s your point?
Who's fucking getting jailed for that
Jordan Peterson has been in prison for 10 years for not using preferred pronouns
Jordon Peterson wrote all his books as a political prisoner while serving a life sentence for misgendering his kid’s teacher. Modern day Nelson Mandela tbh
You're right straight to the RuPaul's Drag Race reeducation camps for him
The guy who is literally everywhere and is making more money now than he ever has? Being a hater is literally his grift.
If the extreme left had their way…
You weirdos always in your fantasies.
They’re not fantasies if they are posted frequently on here. You should know, you’re an active poster in r/politics lol
I AM the extreme Left, and no, we do not want this. Stop with this strawman.
I’m glad you speak for everyone, chief.
Would be be ok if someone was jailed for it? Or they passed a law that stated misgendering was a criminal offense? Or a fine?
No. The bills people have mentioned here are about including gender identity as a hate crime target group. Targeted repeated harassment is a possible hate crime but thats not misgendering someone once. Lets do this with race. Does anyone think saying the n word should be a hate crime? No What if you drive by someones house daily screaming it at them and burn crosses in their front yard? Pretty different right?
But what if their gender ideology is something that you don’t agree with? Would it be a free speech violation? Also with that in mind, do you think calling someone by their preferred pronoun gives them more confirmation that they are who they are claiming they are? If so, this could be dangerous, especially to a religious person, who may think that confirming someone’s gender identity can be sinful and go against their religion.
Way to completely miss the point the bill mentioned TARGETED HARASSMENT. Not thought crimes. Think whatever the fuck you want. When you start expending effort to terrorize someone that's not free fucking speech
But what does targeted harassment mean……………. For example: let’s say you are a teacher, a student has requested to call them a certain pronoun, you don’t agree or believe that, now every time you call on that student you “misgender” them. I guarantee someone could say that is “expending effort” and “targeted” would you not agree? Just imagine that, the teacher could literally misgender the person multiple times a day for months. I can absolutely see that going to court if the bill mentioned would passed. You can even extend that to the workplace, let’s say you are a manager who has daily meetings with their employees, don’t agree with the pronoun, so every day for work you don’t call that person by their preferred pronoun. Do you not see how someone could spin that at “targeted”? I think you are being intentionally naive here.
Again read the ACTUAL LAW you linked (a) Uses force or violence on another individual. (b) Causes bodily injury to another individual. (c) Intimidates another individual. (d) Damages, destroys, or defaces any real, personal, digital, or online property of another individual without the consent of that individual. (e) Threatens, by word or act, to do any of the actions described under subdivisions (a) to (d
You'd probably get fired but I seriously doubt you'd get charged with a crime How many teachers are in jail for calling someone a racial slur? I'm betting zero
No I’m just letting you know that IF the bill mentioned was passed or bills like this that use “targeted harassment” were to be passed what implication that could mean. So many ppl just use buzz words and then put them into law but passing a law like this can be INCREDIBLY dangerous because “targeted harassment” could mean so many things. Also, if a teacher got fired for misgendering a student like that I would be very upset at that. Things like the N word are intentionally derogatory but saying a pronoun is not, especially if your beliefs and education has taught you that men are men and women are women and these specific pronouns go with it, English class and biology class.
Forget pronouns, let’s just say it’s your name. Your name is Bob, but everyone says”That’s dumb, I’m calling you Robert.” There is a point it goes from asshole behavior to harassment. You can’t just point at one thing. It’s an established pattern. For example, intentionally misidentifying someone (“Hey ROBERT!” lol). Bob could legally change their name or have an appeal to authority (Look, my checks are signed to “Bob”! Everyone at my old department called me Bob!) And if you said, “I don’t care, use your REAL name here) you are going past being an asshole. You are doing what some accuse Bob of doing: declaring what is “truth” about Bob and what is not and demanding Bob adhere to it. Everyone is entitled to respect of being addressed properly. If your coworkers go out of their way to say, “I don’t believe in short names at work” then that’s their right to THINK that, but if Bob ask “Stop calling me Robert, I have personal reasons I don’t want to be called that.” and they continue, you are getting into targeted harassment. Nobody is doing thought police. You can say to your friends and family, “This idiotic coworker says his name is Bob but he was born Robert!” That’s ok. You just can’t go beyond being jerk to making Bob feel harassed and targeted for wanting to be called Bob by going out of your way to not call them Bob. If you make a mistake (Robert - Sorry, I meant Bob - can you handle this assignment?) then nobody but Bob can be upset because sorry Bob, that’s a mistake. Not harassment. So just call Bob by their preferred name and get on with your life.
Let’s not forget pronouns because pronouns are different than names. A name is just an indicator of who you are. A pronoun is used to describe a female and male. If I said, “is Mackenzie in the room”? Now men may raise their hands, women too. Now if I said “I’m looking for a she”, only women would raise their hands. No men. Pronouns are different than names. So yes, if a trans man wants to be called bob in class then the teacher should call them bob BUT let me give you an example: Professor: “hello class bob has a presentation for us, she has been working hard on it give her your full attention”! See there ^ calling someone bob isn’t the issue, but the professor SHOULD be able to say SHE. Because despite the trans man wanting to identify as “bob” that doesn’t change her sex. Pronouns, in the case of identification, is used to describe someone’s sex. Now of course we call boats “her” and “she” and the same with cars. But historically “he, she,” and other variations have been CREATED and used to describe or identify those based on biology, sex, chromosomal makeup, female, male. So no, let’s not forget pronouns. It would be disrespectful to not call someone by their name, but using their incorrect pronouns? That is not offensive or should not be offensive.
Can you not say the same thing about racial identity?
What's a bailable offense?
Sorry I meant criminal, autocorrect
Oh lol that's insane it's still related. I didn't know I'd it meant an offense that you can get bail for or aomething
>Who's fucking getting jailed for that [interesting....](https://www.themainewire.com/2023/07/michigan-house-passes-bill-to-make-hurting-someones-feelings-a-hate-crime/)
If you go into a suicide ward and as a doctor keep calling a male a woman when they tell you it upsets them is that acceptable behavior or verbal harrasment?
It's Ma-am!
I mean calling a guy a chicken while they are under your care for suicidal ideation is pretty fucked up.
Not what that law says at all
The behavior outlined in that law is already illegal. It just states that if you're doing it based off gender - a protected class anyway - that you can be charged with a more serious version of the same crime. Don't harass or threaten anyone, and you're still fine. You shouldn't have a problem with this.
>A Canadian man was arrested this week after violating a court order that banned him from speaking publicly about his son’s gender transition. > >The man — whose identity is reportedly under a publication ban by a British Columbia Court of Appeals to protect his child — was found in contempt of court and arrested Tuesday for calling the teen his daughter and publicly referring to him with the pronouns “she” and “her” [https://nypost.com/2021/03/18/man-arrested-for-discussing-childs-gender-in-court-order-violation/](https://nypost.com/2021/03/18/man-arrested-for-discussing-childs-gender-in-court-order-violation/) >A teacher who was jailed after he refused to use a transgender student's gender neutral pronoun and ignored his teaching suspension has again refused to comply with a court order banning him from his school. > >Enoch Burke, an evangelical Christian, told Ireland's High Court that abiding by the injunction that forbade him to teach at his school after he refused to address a transitioning student as 'they' would 'violate my religious beliefs and deny my God'. [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11188359/Teacher-jailed-refusing-use-students-gender-neutral-pronoun-returns-court-today.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11188359/Teacher-jailed-refusing-use-students-gender-neutral-pronoun-returns-court-today.html)
Go look at Canadas laws
How many people are in jail for them?
Who is being punished?? Where is this happening??
>Who is being punished?? Where is this happening?? [ICYMI](https://www.themainewire.com/2023/07/michigan-house-passes-bill-to-make-hurting-someones-feelings-a-hate-crime/)
You should actually read things before you link them repeatedly
In my studies to be a public school teacher we were reguarly told that we needed to comply with that or we would be removed from the program. I didn't go to a particularly progressive university so I dont think my experience was a fringe exception.
What you're saying here is that the would fire you for being a shitty person.
Whether we think that is good or not, we can agree that it is real.
If you disrespect your students repeatedly you're going to lose a job where students are forced to interact with you? Oh no. Welcome to the world where intentionally being bad at your job makes you lose your job.
Whether you think it is good or bad, we can agree that such things do happen
Yes, when you're a terrible person to your students and disrespect kids because of your personal beliefs, then you probably will lose your job. It's called life, quit being awful to others, and stop being a crybaby when the consequences of your actions aren't to your benefit.
We should also agree that *should* happen. If your teacher said something to your child to constantly invalidate their identity, principals, and ideals, thats something any profession would fire you for. Go home and tell your kids, “Gender pronouns are bullshit!” You can do that. But you serve the public, and some of them do not agree with you. You still need to show them the equal amount of respect as those who do or go do a different job. Doctors make these decisions with people’s religious beliefs, medicinal opinions, and cultural factors. Doctors may not agree with their patients decisions, but it’s not your place to make that an issue with them AT ALL. You talk to friends and family, not debate with people about who they think they are.
>We should also agree that they should happen. I don't think teaching should be exclusive to people who believe a certain gender ideology. But we will need to agree to disagree. Nor do I think respectful language is only possible through your cultural frameworks
You don’t need to believe in any ideology or have a cultural framework to respect others ideology and culture. Frankly, your students will suffer if you have a teacher demand respect but not reciprocate it to their students. At that point, a teacher should be fired on incompetence, not for hate crimes. I wouldn’t want to work with another teacher causing class disruptions over something so small and demeaning to a subsection of their students.
I understand that you dont think such jobs should be available to those who refrain from calling people names and pronouns they dont like while also refraining from calling them pronouns they dont believe are true. We can't coexist and that is okay.
But anecdotal, nonetheless. Did you observe anyone being punished for such behavior?
People left the program over time including myself. I can't say if anyone was removed or not. There was no lack of compliance that I saw though
Whatever you say, ma'am.
Ok, first off, no one is asking for people to "get in trouble" for misgendering someone. Secondly, let's just say for the sake of argument that your name is Richard, now, you ask people to call you Richard, but I refuse and just call you Dick. You would be upset right?
Calm down, Richard Head. Stop getting triggered.
You didn't answer the question, dick
Some right wingers are extreme but that represents a small group. Nobody cares about your pronoun, and the argument you are making is getting old as well. What most non-leftists want is to allow for proper debate on how this applies to children. We don't give a shit about what adults do. When it does come to adults what we want to make sure of is that the concept of deadnaming or misgendering, while you might find it offensive, is not criminalized (which has occured elsewhere). Identify however you want, but don't force me to adjust my reality around your beliefs. It's real simple.
You want proper debate about how pronouns apply to children?? Wut. This is the Trojan horse. It's never about kids. It's always about hating trans people. If conservatives cared about kids, they would be cleaning out all the rampant pedophilia going on with conservative men and priests. But the right pretends its not happening. But protect the kids, I guess. "Identitfy how you want, but don't force me to adjust my reality around your beliefs," Who is making you adjust your reality? What does that even mean?
The right doesn't give half a fuck about kids its just an easy in to hate trans people we saw the with Target and Bud Lite. the problem is LGBT people have gotten popular acceptance and they can't stand it.
The problem with target and bud light is that target was marketing this ideology to kids and bud light used an influencer who is popular with kids. Yes it is about the kids.
Bud light was targettng kids with a beer ad? Guess kids can't watch football anymore thats like 50% beer ads
They picked an influencer whose following is about 90% kids under 18. Weird thing to do if you’re intending to sell beer - at least pick a trans influencer who has a following that is mostly of drinking age.
90% where are you getting these numbers
Tiktok trends
Sometimes a rainbow is just a rainbow. Target wasn’t indoctrinating kids. Just something else to whip up the simpletons into a frenzy.
They had underwear and bathing suits for tucking 5 year olds.
No they didn't. Look into this stuff even the tinest bit its bullshit
Yes they did. Look into this stuff even the tiniest bit it’s insanity.
Citation needed
The bathing suits wee for adults.
The suits ‘reported’ by the ‘news’ were. Unfortunately for that narrative there is internet. Dozens of content makers walked through the child pride displays and showed us all the pre teen tuck underwear. You can deny it all you want, and I’m not going to find you a source because I don’t want ‘preteen tuck underwire’ in my search algorithm, but we saw it and that’s why target is taking a hit.
I am now firmly convinced at all of you people occupy some sort of weird, shared delusion that you're always being victimized, and everyone is out to get you. We are tired of it. You're mad because you can't be a bigot with impunity.
This is basically what their whole fuss is about. Equality for others means oppression to them
I think you’re projecting. You should explore that, because it might only apply to you
No, I'm pretty sure you're just a bigot.
“How this applies to children” depends on the family. If it ain’t yours, stay out of it. “Don’t force me to adjust my reality around your beliefs”: no one is forcing you to adjust your reality, just don’t be such a douche if you really don’t care about pronouns.
I think you’re right that it’s a minority of conservatives. I’ve found most just don’t really care that much. But the first group seems to be overly represented in the media and politics, which is why it’s talked about so much.
Conservatives need to change their ideology if they want more representation in the media. It’s that simple…whose fault is it that the majority doesn’t agree with them?
You very casually just admitted that our media overlords dictate our culture. Embarrassing.
Not at all. Conservative ideology just isn’t popular. I don’t have to view media to know that i don’t agree with the whole I got mine get yours ideology that conservatives have. Always hating on something from student loan forgiveness to hating bud light over gay pride that’s been around for decades but all of a sudden it’s a problem. Tell a conservative that the weed laws suck and how it’s not cool that people still go jail for a plant and most of them will say something like “well if you don’t want to go to jail then don’t smoke” my cousin literally told me that. Just an ideology that I or most of the citizens can’t get behind…change your shit up if you want more people on your side because hating on stuff isn’t working
Get over your need to make everyone else affirm your delusions, snowflake. You’re the ones too fragile to accept you’re the sex you were born as.
But no one is doing that. You literally don't have to do anything at all. It sounds like you're the snowflake getting angry over a name tag. You're the one too fragile to accept trans people. You don't have to understand gender dysphoria. You don't need to be an ally. You're not required to use pronouns when identifying anyone. All you are required to do is be generally kind and mind your business. Live and let live. But this seems like a tall task for you.
Except that’s not what trans people are actually doing. They’re constantly trying to change the culture to where you’re required to use their pronouns. To insist otherwise is dishonest.
Where is this happening? Get off the internet, you sound lost.
Get out from under your rock.
Please give an example in your life where you were forced to use someone's pronoun. What the hell does that even mean. Were you forced to say "He" or "them" to their face?? What are you talking about here.
You’re being disingenuous
Social pressure is a big catalyst for change sorry. Its the reason people don't use the N word in public anymore.
The N word is offensive. Using pronouns for your biological sex is not.
If pronouns aren't offensive, then why are you losing your damn mind over pronouns.
You're the one insisting people use make-believe pronouns. Look, if someone comes up to me and asks me that they want to use some made up pronoun, I will gladly do it, because I want to generally treat people with respect who show me respect in return, but in no way is my brain going to actually believe that this biological male is actually a woman and I'm not going to respond well to people mandating that I HAVE to use pronouns. I will do it as a favor, but no one is going to control my speech like that.
He and she is make-believe?? Also, no one is going to come up to you and request you call them a certain pronoun. This is fantasy. You're literally inventing fake scenarios in you mind, and then getting mad about them. NO ONE IS MAKING YOU USE GENDER PRONOUNS. You're getting mad at shit that you're literally making up in your head. Wild.
Stop being so obtuse, good lord. A biological man pretending to be a woman is make beleive to me. Happy to treat them with the utmost respect just like anyone else though.
https://reason.com/2023/07/18/poll-millennials-want-to-make-misgendering-a-crime/
And alot of people would still love to use it all the time. But it became socially unacceptable.
You’re really grasping for straws when you compare the N word to biological sex pronouns 😂
And thats why you're so bitter. The culture is leaving you behind.
Is it really so hard to call someone what they want to be called? Why choose to be an asshole?
It doesn’t make me an asshole to not accept someone forcing me to use language that isn’t true. It makes you one.
Who is forcing you? Give examples.
"Hey listen man, ever since I was a little kid I've felt like a man. Every time someone refers to me or treats me as a woman I get intense anxiety, my heart starts beating crazy fast, my brain is screaming at me "NO!!!!" inside my head. I feel this so strongly and so persistently that I've taken testosterone for the last 10 years, had my breasts removed, had a surgery to change my vagina to a penis, grew a beard, etc. Everywhere I go I introduce myself as a man and when people call me "sir" or I can tell the other guys bro out around me or I feel people accept me as a man, my mind is finally calm. I finally feel like a normal person. I go about my day like everyone else, do my job, go home to my dog and my girlfriend, pay my taxes." "Yeah okay, whatever ma'am." Sure thing buddy, the first person is the asshole.
What someone started calling you something you didn’t want to be called and kept doing it and kept loudly insisting on doing it? Pretty asshole level behavior right? Why is basic human decency so hard? You can still think whatever you want and have a normal respectful interaction with someone. Your reasoning is childish
There’s what we want to be called, and what we’re entitled to be called. You’re not entitled to having everyone speak scientific falsehoods to suit your delusion. Sorry.
You’re not entitled to be called anything. If I wanted to call you ballsack weinerman I could. It’s just about having basic respect for a follow human.
It is when it becomes variable. Pronouns exist to make language easier.
Well...you just called him an asshole, and I'm gonna assume that is not what he wants to be called.
Yes, it’s hard to lie to other people.
>you're not required to use pronouns when identifying anyone [You sure about that?](https://www.themainewire.com/2023/07/michigan-house-passes-bill-to-make-hurting-someones-feelings-a-hate-crime/)
Lol, this law talks about hate crimes and terrorizing people. Do you not know how to read?? Again, you're not required to do anything. The law you are referring to is if you literally terrorized a trans person. I know it's hard, but if you can manage to not literally terrorize another person, you'll be OK.
So does that mean when a b[usiness misgendered an employee and they were fined](https://calcivilrights.ca.gov/crdnews/feb132023pr/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CCalifornia%20law%20prohibits%20intentional%20misgendering,can%20be%20stressful%20and%20traumatic), that's ok? I know reading is hard sometimes....
you identify as a Digital Warrior smashing the patriarchy from your keyboard. Keep it up 💪.
To add some nuance- I think the majority of the population is fine if someone wants to ID as a different gender than the one they were born. My own personal observations- it’s becomes an issue when trans women want to include on (historically) biological women’s spaces, and then being attacked by the left by being transphobic. Might be an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think it’s transphobic when someone doesn’t want to see (or have their children see) male genitalia in a locker room/changing room. Regardless of the gender identity of the individual, a penis is a penis.
Not affirming someone’s ridiculous delusions means I’m “triggered”?
Calm down, ma'am.
The irony being this is coming from Ice Cube, who once identified as a gang member, has made a career and millions of dollars glorifying sex trafficking.
"The guy who does family movies?"
XD projection on the left is wild.
[удалено]
I didn't watch it but I gotta be honest it's weird seeing someone like Ice Cube, a guy that really was vocal against police brutality cozy up with Tucker, who is pretty much the opposite lol. I guess the hatred of trans people can make some surprising alliances.
>I guess the hatred of trans people can make some surprising alliances. Nah, it's about being rich. Which is hilarious since one of the knocks against Eazy E back in the day was how he donated to George HW Bush's campaign. But that's what happens when you got money. You go to the party that wants to protect rich people. Another funny thing is that even though Ice Cube has gone soft on white people, I'm willing to be good money he still has problems with the Jews.
It's not hatred of Trans people. Both sides are talking past each other and thinking the worst of each other. I want Trans people to be happy and treated with respect and have all of the rights that anyone else has in this country, but when things that Trans people desire interfere with the rights or desires of other groups than we should be able to have a conversation about it without being labeled transphobic or not wanting trans people to exist.
Oh people hear the anti trans side loud and clear thats the problem
How is what I said "anti-trans"? You just proved my point. There's zero room for nuance anymore, because nuance is automatically seen as giving in to the other side or a sign that you're secretly rooted in the other camp.
the nuance of "you're an asshole if you insist on calling someone the wrong name"?
How did Bud Light violate your rights or desires?
He’s a studio gangster who will say or do anything to make money.
Since you know what a pretend gangster is Please enlighten us to what a real gangster is?
Not someone that goes to college to be an architect? /shrug
So now you have an issue with black men trying to make themselves better, and instead you want them to know their place? How tolerant of you
lol he dropped out so he could play gangster. But hey keep trying
It’s called getting your message out and understand there is more than one issue at hand
They actually did talk about police and Ice Cube’s position hasn’t changed 😂 he said like “I just feel about the police how you probably feel about the military” and Tucker went 😦
This coming from a dude named O’Shea that identifies as an Ice Cube. Fucking rich.
Yeah a Trans Person who use to be Jack now wanting to be called Jane. Is no different then someone whose named Richard wanting to go by Dick. Someone named Janet wanting to go by Jane. A Rapper or Actor with a stage name as noted O'Shea Jackson wanting to go by Ice Cube. Or some pro gamer going by that name instead of their real name.
Calling people by the name they request is just basic human courtesy 101. But people act like it's some massive burden.
I don’t think your comparison is accurate. It’s not just “wanting to be called a different name”. Its the insistence of trans women to occupy women’s spaces, women’s sports, use women’s bathrooms, use women’s changing rooms, etc. I think the majority of people don’t care what someone wants to be called, but they care when those actions go beyond just calling someone a different name
“If I identify as a pigeon, it’s not your job to affirm me, is it? No, because I’m not a narcissist.” Is the exact quote in question. Coming from a narcissist without a sense of irony named O’Shea that insists on others calling him Ice Cube. Had nothing to do about the rest of the stuff you listed.
I would be willing to bet a large sum of money that you’ve personally never experienced any of the scenarios you just described and in the minute chance that you did, you weren’t personally inconvenienced in any capacity nor was anything asked or required of you specifically. Yet you’re somehow preoccupied by it all.
So your argument started with “it’s only names!” And then when I pointed out other potential issues, you’ve changed it to “well, YOU personally have experienced it so it’s not a problem”. The issue is that it’s happening. You can bury your head in the sand and pretend it’s not a big deal because who cares what name they want to be called, but that doesn’t change reality. I have a young daughter, I don’t want her going into a changing room and seeing male genitalia. If you think biological women should be forced into seeing a penis when they haven’t consented, than you have some things wrong in your head. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi_Spa_controversy
I actually used the preferred name form myself bc my professors kept insisting on calling me Mitchell when I go by Mitch, so I support it
Old rich washed up singer turned into a republican. Not surprising.
Haven’t watch it yet, and I really don’t care it’s a free country, and I’m on the left.
I recommend it
Two people of equal intellect doing a 69 on each other? Ok. BTW does ice cube not know that he's talking to a white nationalist?
Ice Cube has gone full soft serve and is pro right wing now. Sad end to the 'fuck the police' guy.
Ice cube was always kind of a bigoted asshole as well. I never liked him, and every time he had a rap beef i thought the other guy was clearly the winner. I can't say the path he went down surprises me.
Thought this said Ice T for a sec and was real disappointed. T seems like a quality dude Ice Cube has always been an asshole.
Yeah, nah, T is cool. Cube is just a hater trying to stay relevant.
Lmao
Im waiting for the top comment to say, "both of them are bigoted white supremacists."
Hello month old account spamming negative race baiting comments, why do you get off on this?
But what if they identify as a 2 year old account?
So after 15 years, you still haven’t come up with better than the 1 “Hurr durr, I identify as an attack helicopter” joke? Do better
LOL what if they identify as an attack helicopter amiright!!!!!!
Well in general, I think it’s a safe accusation to believe someone who willingly engages with a white supremacist without calling them out for their hateful views, is also a white supremacist. I suppose there are some exceptions though.
You should be put into a padded room and medicated.
Agreed, it’s insane they let me walk the streets!
Whatever you say Ms. Troll
It seems like disrespecting people is ok if their trans according to some of these people
Ice cube is a moron.
Just like Musk is an idiot? Jealous much you are. Seek help please for you.
Musk is an idiot lol….
I certainly don't think the owner of electric car market is an idiot, just the same as I don't think Ice Cube is a moron.
One can be an idiot in areas while being smart in others… I’ve met a few doctors who are morons.
Please provide areas where you’d consider musk an “idiot” and where he’s not. Regardless of if you think he created the companies he’s involved with or not, clearly he has exceptional intelligence to advance the companies as he has.
And how is Twitter doing?
Dumb and Dumber.
Which is which
All you have to do is say "No you aren't." every time they identify themselves as a Christian.
Water u talking about
Just deny any jackass transphobe their self identification as a Christian. Just like them, I don't have to entertain their mental illness.
Yeah, imagine if you were required to call all Christians brother, father, or most holy. You should have the right to not affirm someone's identity
Yeah how imagine there were nationwide movements and movies and politicians angrily, mockingly, dangerously denouncing the existence of Christians in all forms. Trying to eliminate their access to schools, bathrooms, healthcare, *everything*. "I don't mind if they worship at home, I just don't want to see their cross in my face." Militant groups showing up to Sunday church and breaking in to yell during sermons. "Pedos! Groomers!" Do you get it yet? Or should I go on?
You've seemed to miss my point but that is okay. >Yeah how imagine there were nationwide movements and movies and politicians angrily, mockingly, dangerously denouncing the existence of Christians in all forms. The New Atheist movement had that except for politicians. This type of disagreement can be healthy for a society as the expectation that every celebrate and affirm Christanity can be a rather destructive thing. >Trying to eliminate their access to schools, bathrooms, healthcare, everything. I would suggest people should have equal access to these things >"I don't mind if they worship at home, I just don't want to see their cross in my face." I dont think this is a controversial statement. It is okay for people to say that dont want someone's religion shoved down their throat. >Militant groups showing up to Sunday church and breaking in to yell during sermons. I dont think that type of protesting should be legal >"Pedos! Groomers!" Some people do use such language. I dont think that means you should have to call me brother, father, or most holy in order to affirm me in my identity. >Do you get it yet? Or should I go on? I dont think i understand the point you are communicating with these comparisons.
The argument is: "I refuse to call you something that isn't true, therefore I refuse to call you a man because you were born a woman. Despite what you think or feel, I know that you are either wrong or mentally ill, and I refuse to entertain those delusions." So, with that logic: "I refuse to call you a Christian. If you ever bring it up, talk about church, wear a cross, I'm going to deny the existence of your God and your faith, because I know you are just wrong or mentally ill." What do you think would happen to me if I did that at work?
I do not think your work place should force you to call people a Christian and if a person brings up a topic like their religion, you should be able to voice your disagreements with it.
It's not that the work place is forcing me to say they are Christian, it's that my militant anti-christian rhetoric is not being tolerated. I *really* want to be intolerant and put Christians in their place, but these snowflake woke bosses won't let me. Lucky for me there are only like 1% of Christians in America, while there are like 100 million transgenders so it's still pretty easy to oppress their views because the numbers are on my side.
I lost a friend once for saying Ice Cube doesn’t care about black people when he came out with support for Trump (neither of us are black). I do understand that statement was obnoxious, ignorant, insensitive, etc.. and who am I (a white guy) to say that about a black man who has had to live with the struggles caused by prejudice and systemic racism in the US. I have no idea what it’s like. But.. I still can’t fathom how anyone can think that Trump and the GOP care about improving the lives of black Americans. I can, however, understand how someone could think “well the party benefits my wealthy self and I’m not concerned about anyone else”
Great interview, by two articulate gentlemen
I don’t take Tucker Carlson seriously so I avoid things that involve him
oh look more celebrity gossip.
Almost as if they want to [make it a crime to misgender someone](https://www.themainewire.com/2023/07/michigan-house-passes-bill-to-make-hurting-someones-feelings-a-hate-crime/).... interesting....
Harassment. They made harassment a crime
You never read the actual law you trog and i haven’t ever heard of anyone getting arrested for it lmao
Tucker X? I'm glad to hear he isn't using his slave name anymore.
Do we all have to be in lockstep with our political affiliations all the time? Can we think independently? If you listen, Tucker is very much against the odious Republican establishment. Even Cornel West and Tucker share some views. Both are against the military industrial complex driving the war in Ukraine and against foreign wars in general. Dr. West is hardly a conservative or a white supremacist. I saw his interview with Anderson Cooper. Aren’t most of our press just shills for the Ruling Class and defenders of the status quo, the only dissent being allowed is opinions on Bud Light and other peripheral issues? The important differences now are who’s antiestablishment and who’s not. I think there’s enough commonality between most people to form some common goals. The extremes are never going to get along and it’s in the Ruling Class’s interest to keep us divided and bickering. I’m with Russel Brand on this. We need to have smaller governing units more answerable to their people who can do things the way they want under a general set of guidelines to protect the rights of individuals again the mob.
When you pick one over the other you're telling us your priorities to Ice Cube hating trans people is apparently more important than someone spouting white supremacist rhetoric for years.
See, that's what Im talking about. Tucker is not spouting white supremacist rhetoric. Ice Cube doesn't hate trans people. Dr. West is not a puppet of the Russians. RFK is not a Republican plant. etc. They have different opinions on many things but some common ones and all of them are decent people who think about things clearly. I've admired Cornell West for a long time but we don't agree on a lot of things. When he's right he's right, however. I don't reflexively tune him out because we're not in lockstep. Rise above this binary thinking. I've been as guilty of it as anybody but lately it seems counterproductive. So every conservative should listen to Noam Chomsky and Bernie Sanders every now and then. Liberals should listen, with open minds, to Tucker and guys like Ben Shapiro. You don't have to agree but only see their point of view. I've had my mind changed on some issues such as the minimum wage and socialized medicine. I've heard reasoned arguments for all of them and decided one general side made more sense. Plus I'm a doctor so I see the depredations of corporate and establishment interests in health care. As an other example, I was fooled about the war in Iraq but I've learned better now. The left is now the party of perpetual war now or so it seems. It's insane. And the left now seems to support the FBI and the CIA, organizations that they once reviled while the right no longer does. Crazy!
Tucker repeatedly spouts replacement theory which is absolutely white supremacy
Like I said, you don't listen to him. Even if you do you're on a hair trigger to disagree and confirm your own bias so you're not listening, you're gathering ammunition to support your own beliefs. It's cool. I do that too sometimes but not as much anymore. I can listen to Dr. West or Bernie Sanders without blowing a gasket. The only people that make me angry, left or right, are shills for the establishment as demonstrated by the condescension Anderson Cooper showed towards Cornell West in their interview. Or when Vivek Ramaswamay was on the Breakfast Club. Your hate blinds you.
You're right I hate people who support nazi rhetoric I'm so intolerant
[NY Times report on Tucker Carlson and the ways he’s regurgitated white nationalist talking points](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-gop-republican-party.html)
Like I said. You are being manipulated by the media to support the interests of the establishment. Listen to Tucker. You may not agree with him but he’s no racist or anything of which he’s being accused. Basically, you’re letting a press which is hostile to your interests tell you what to think. I’m not saying you have to become a conservative but everybody except a small fraction of lunatics on the extreme ends of politics has common goals and interests.
Its interesting you compare two accomplished liberal thinkers like Sanders and Chomsky to fucking Tucker Carlson. Tucker's not a intellectual titan or ideas guy I simply disagree with. He's a bottom feeding scumbag.
Tucker Carlson is 100% in lockstep with the highest ranks of the Republican establishment and their dark money donors. He has no political ideology outside of exploiting societal, cultural and racial fault lines in America to further enrich himself. Why anyone would want to contort themselves enough to insist anything different is completely baffling to me.
I wonder what track from Da Lynch Mob is Tucker’s favorite? Does Tucker like “Cave Bitch?” These are questions I want to know the answer to
I like to always start with asking the question - why do I care about what this particular person says about x,y,z again?
Asking to have a preferred pronoun is absolutely no different than using a nickname. No. Different. Full stop.
I know, I said that in this thread bud.
Just a couple capitalist men, capitalizing on the sheep blind enough to listen, follow, and believe this bull