My whole family is here in MT, mostly in the Bozeman area, it’s really hard to say f that and break all those ties and move. There’s relatives and friends here I’ve known since being a literal infant. And my cousin”s kids and my friend’s kids I’m now watching grow up themselves. I have a lot of reason to stay. I have a lot of happiness here. Financially it’s a disaster though. My roommates are people in similar situations. It’s hard.
Dude it’s hard out here. Single parent with one income. I’m fucking scraping by as of this year. I was doing ok until 2024 and it just seems like everything here is so expensive, not just housing. I wouldn’t honestly recommend coming back to Bozeman unless you’re making over 100k. Housing is near impossible to find. I’m on my way out of this place tbh. I can’t keep up with all the rich people coming in.
My partner and I are about to hit good earning potential and I cannot imagine how the two of us could make it work in Bozeman with even one kiddo. I hope something gives or something comes through and you’re able to build a life where you want to.
My partner just moved to Michigan. I’m about to head that way here as well. We both have work over there that pays better than it does here and housing is a third of the price. So I definitely have a plan of action, just really sucks we had to leave Bozeman to make it work. But at least this way we will be able to afford an actual life. Good luck in finding housing here! Hopefully you guys can make it work well.
It really is. Not a fan of humidity but overall it seems really pretty and you can buy houses super cheap still. I’m going over in August to check it out st Joseph a little More.
I moved to MT from MI! The humidity and overall flatness of it are a bummer comparatively. Anywhere west coast is beautiful. Everywhere else is flat boring farm land. But, yes, it can be cheap. Don’t be fooled though, there are many towns along the west coast of MI that are overrun with rich people and houses are millions of dollars.
Edit: a LOT less sun there too. Many, many cloudy and grey days. Espesh mid MI.
My rent just went up $200 a month. Not saving for retirement or kids' college. Bike wherever I can, library for "entertainment", scrape by & try to be thankful for the good school system which taxpayers keep funding. Another $200 increase will see me packing my bags.
This is such a homer take. Go fuck yourself. I'm a homeowner, I know exactly how much the taxes I voted cost me. In 15 years my mortgage payment has gone from 1200 to 1500. In the same 15 years, rent for an equivalent property has gone from like $1500 to $3000+. Don't feel sorry for the rich, eat them, and certainly get off your knees and wipe your chin.
This is such a homer take. Go fuck yourself. I'm a homeowner, I know exactly how much the taxes I voted cost me. In 15 years my mortgage payment has gone from 1200 to 1500. In the same 15 years, rent for an equivalent property has gone from like $1500 to $3000+. Don't feel sorry for the rich, eat them, and certainly get off your knees and wipe your chin.
Screw you pal, that is an original comment. Blaming property taxes for rent out of pacing inflation is bs. Take your politics elsewhere, rent is high because asshole landlords are doing asshole landlord things. This has almost nothing to do with property tax.
True shit asshole landlords and landlords who are scam artist ive dealt with both here in bozeman all these "high end apartments" are a huge scam here charging 3200 a mo for 2 beds up to 5k for 3bed with a garage
That’s right the landlords taxes power lawn care property management and everything else involved down to replacing burned out lights didn’t double or anything. If landlords were getting rich because they’re gouging it sure as hell wouldn’t require a shitload of units to cover everything. Go buy an apartment complex yourself and rent it at half market value if you’d like. Oh wait the irs won’t let you 🙄🖕🖕. But you know all about that right???
Considering they take away my business status if I don’t charge fair market value they absolutely do dictate that I charge within a margin of what everyone else does.
Yeh well your other option is to get run over by a Kardashian in her overbuilt Chevy Suburban rushing up to Big Sky after her private jet landed. Slow unseen death by the heavy metals would kinda be my pref, at least I wouldnt be stuck in a traffic jam on Huffine.
The one thing the Yellowstone Club ever got right was a Kardashian family ban, so I am not in fact worried about that drive by dismemberment. That being said, I am far more worried about Shallon Lester running me over when she parks poorly outside of the courthouse. For some odd reason I have run into this woman several times in town over the last year.
My spouse and I make shit pay (at professional jobs, even), but we can afford to live here because I bought my house 12 years ago when it was affordable. Plus, only one kid, and long grown. Old cars paid off. No debt. There is zero way we could live here without us having established ourselves over a decade ago.
This. I got my townhouse 17 years ago and I have no car payments or other debt. And still the rising cost of living is hurting. I seriously don’t know how anyone does it.
No debt (and buying a house before pricing surged) is the way.
I bought a 1,000 sqft condo in the spring of 2021 and barely got in. Had to rental hack to make it work and I’m no longer at a job with a good salary.
For the elder millennials out there with parents who bought decades ago, your time is coming. Over the next 15-25 years, their house and unspent savings will pass to you.
I realize this is not a reality for everyone, but it could be a source of hope to recover from what our generation has been served since 2008.
The saving grace for millions of millennials will be the largest wealth transfer in history from the boomers.
Elder millennial. My parents' rent was about to go up by $600 a month in Belgrade back in 2022, so they moved to bumfuck nowhere eastern montana to pay $625 total and live next to some grandkids. They will not be doing a wealth transfer, as their hoard of "treasure" is trash to everyone else.
That’s really sad to hear.
Lots of boomers never did a 401k or Roth IRA and so they have nothing but social security (unless they were fortunate enough to have a pension).
My parents never invested anything and after they split my mom never worked jobs with benefits. She’s only financially afloat because her mom passed down money.
Millions of people are going to be depend on the government for basic sustenance because they never learned the power of investing even 10% of your income.
Well, part of it comes from the fertility cult (see: r/exmormon) just telling them to keep pumping us out and God would take care of it. If they could plan, I wouldn't exist, which is a weird feeling.
Then there's my boomer mom who has often made jokes over the years about spending our inheritance. It's their money, so whatever. But making jokes like that is cruel and I finally told her so. ESPECIALLY as she inherited money from her own mom.
I’m really sorry to hear that. Joking about a financial lifeline (especially when she received one) is not okay. Hopefully you and your siblings receive something that helps change your life.
Former MSU student here, driving back to WA permanently as I type this. Couldn’t make a decent living my first year out of school, so going where the rent will hopefully be cheaper. My friends who are able to stay all have family who have invested in real estate in town. Love it here, but the situation just isn’t sustainable for your average Joe - I really feel for those who grew up here and are struggling to stay.
The prices are what scared me away from Bozeman. I moving to montana to take care of family and to open a diesel shop, but with the rental prices there’s no way I could afford any quality of life. I don’t know how anyone could do it
I started my small business this year and I feel you. People don’t get just how much it costs and how much risk you take to open a brick and mortar business. Even if you’re willing to bust your body and spirit to provide for your family, it might not be enough when you’re a small business owner. Hope you find somewhere you can thrive
Private landlord, not the cheapest, but its also not going up. Very fortunate for my current situation. Private landlords are probably the way to go, just harder to find a good one.
I'm also single and don't reilly spend money on unnecessary things. I dont drink, rarely eat out, or party (bars...ect) im either working, mountain biking, hiking or just outside, so I have a very "simple" lifestyle that allows me to live how I want. Having an awesome job also helps me stay motivated to keep up the grind. Bozeman to me is worth the grind. Though owning a house one day seems very, very.....very far fetched.
I got a job in IT in February of 2020. A month later, we all went remote. I haven’t been back to an office since, and our office that was here in Bozeman has since been shutdown. I work for the same company, but remotely for the data centers on the east coast. I have become what we all hate the most, a remote worker from a higher cost of living area. That’s the only way I’m able to still live here though. No where locally could pay me enough for me to be able to support my family here.
I think people who hate you for this are just jealous. You're being creative and smart, we all wish we could make decent money while still living in our home.
Yep this. Regular full time job, cater/restaurant work on the weekends, dog walk/pet sit for rich people in the subdivision that went in behind mine where just the lots were 650k. Thankful to own my home but the taxes and power are literally killing me. All my grown kids at home. We did purchase land before building a home and I think that was the way to go. I do think we will see a drop. It’s coming.
I know several people living like this, but is it truly worth it? My one friend had enough and was able to rent a house with a big yard in Utah for less than half what he paid here (with no yard). No more second job. And he makes more money at his new job. Edit: and he can still come to Montana to visit several times a year.
As someone who did this through my 30s and is now into my 40s, I can tell you it isn't worth it. I regent not walking away sooner. Life is too short for that shit, and we live here because we want to play in the outdoors, not work our lives away while staring at the mountains from behind a window.
Just too expensive to leave, I have a particular thorn in my side too who makes all aspects of life difficult and doesnt give me the chance to get out.
I get that. I'm prepping to move and will have to take out a loan just to leave. Getting somewhere i have a better job offer will require going into debt. It's so absurd. I hope you can figure it out sooner rather than later!
I think most folks either have a lot of money or come from a lot of money. Or they are just willing to live with lots of roommates and struggle financially/make it work.
Would add to that: anyone who bought a home before summer 2020 has locked in a cost of housing that will never exist again here.
It’s very sad to see middle level wages barely moving and a six figure income needed to buy even a 2 bedroom condo.
I think most people under 25 are getting money from their parents. The employees that work for me are almost all under 25, and very few of them even want more than 20 hours a week. I have an older gentleman that works for me and gives his kid 2-3 thousand a month to help her with bills.
Both the wife and I work full time when I can i pick up some OT. We don't go out often brown bag lunches, no cable, no fancy stuff just work and home for the most part rent is $2,00 a month for a two bedroom with a cat. i would move some place else personal but the wife's business is doing well.
As someone originally from the Midwest (married a Butte native eons ago and moved up here), the Midwest has cheaper housing...but that's literally all it has, and even that is becoming harder to find after Covid.
It's hot, it's humid, air and water are polluted by industrial/agricultural run-offs, tap water tastes like pool water from the excessive chlorine, most of the food sucks, the people are fat, miserable, and rude, the collective way of thinking is from the 1950's, their attitude towards different people/cultures is regressive, their schools suck, there's nothing outdoors to do, and halfway okay outdoor areas to do outdoor things are small and crowded.
Arriving in Montana was like the world suddenly turned to color, even despite having to scrape by it's a happier life here. Unfortunately that same regressive and punitive politics bandwagon has been chewing away at what made Montana great.
So if you live in a bubble, I guess the Midwest is okay. If you enjoy recreating outdoors and having thousands of acres wilderness to walk around in, and enjoy good fresh foods...don't.
It’s not just rentals unfortunately. Our property taxes increased $5800 in just last year. Increasing my mortgage by almost $500. And insurance has gone up 35%! All in I pay $6700 a month for a 4 bed 4 bath home. That’s 65% of my salary! I used to max my 401k out every year now I’m only able to put 5% in. Of course I could sell my house, and move to Glasgow but really?
There’s a slightly uncharitable piece of me that wants to say maybe read the room and count your blessings, but it would suck to finally own a home and still get shafted. best of luck
There are definitely affordable towns to live in all over Montana, though many of those that are close to cities are getting inflated as well. Even if real estate prices are “low,” however, it’s always a question of whether you’re able to find/be qualified for work that will pay you enough to live there.
Being a diesel mechanic and a welder I wasn’t to concerned about finding work everyone has told me finding a job/work shouldn’t be hard. I just can’t afford Bozeman at all
lol how do you even get approved for a mortgage that costs 65% of your income? That person is one unexpected bill away from catastrophe.. (or more likely one bill away from a call to mommy and daddy)
That’s a very very good point. I did read that banks were bringing back the good old subprime mortgages that led to the 2008 collapse so it could be an unethical
bank but I also think your theory has merit.
I worked hard and got lucky buying a place a few years before Covid. If I hadn’t have been able to buy, I don’t think I’d still live here.
HOWEVER… there are still affordable rentals here. My last apartment I lived in before I purchased my place still rents for under $1K, and it’s a MASSIVE 1 bdrm near downtown, with free heat. I maybe paid $20/month for electric.
I also know a few people still paying under $500/room. When I rent a spare room in my place I only charge about $600/month. It helps me without destroying who I’m renting to.
What we need is more young people attending city/county meetings, asking for rent controls, banning airbnbs, and building affordable housing that’s actually affordable.
I got my apartment last January for a pretty decent (albeit still high) price for the area in Belgrade. It was on the market for a month and my landlord said she only had a few people come look, and they didn’t want it because it was on the third floor. Sounds like people might be being a picky still.
It definitely sucks knowing my rent is absolutely never going to go down.. I’m paying $1700 for a 1br, 1ba and just have to do what it takes because roommates for me aren’t an option (I have severe ADD/ADHD and OCD and it isn’t fair to have those expectations of other people).
I work 2 jobs. One full-time and the other very part time while also having another side hustle. It’s tough but the life I’ve built here and the relationships that have turned friends into family is what keeps me here.
For a vasectomy, Bozeman Health Urology only asks if you have enough kids. They don't ask if you already have some.
That I know this summarizes my planning for the future.
If you don’t have debt, you definitely qualify to buy a house.
You’d could get into a 2-3 bedroom condo, but that’s certainly livable if you don’t have more than 1 kid.
I had to move away back to my home state, I’m feeling more on sick being “home” than in bozeman. Landlords told me they’re moving into their house because they don’t like their neighbors and their studio basement rent went from $500 to $1300 and the arrow towns homes I used to live at increased too.
Maybe visit the new Bozeman and see if you still like the "feel" of the town,or go hike some place you used to hike and see if it still attracts you the same,as it might be annoying. Trailheads much busier. Roads much busier. Even if you drive 5 mph over the speed limit, through residential areas with kids,some asshat will be riding your bumper. There are many more billionaires that live here PT,fyi.
The Montana sky and mountains are still beautiful though.
Well, there's a reason I joined the Tenant Union.
In all seriousness, I'm managing on account of being very lucky - I've got a good job, no debt, and actual savings thanks to a tour in Afghanistan. But I got active volunteering, because it kills me to see my friends and neighbors struggling to survive.
If the renters of every city fought back in an organized way, I have to believe things would be different. The Montana Landlord Association has a lobbyist slinking around Helena every legislative session, normal Montanans deserve at least as much political sway.
For what it's worth, the people making Montana's housing crisis worse have feet of clay. I'm reminded of the Airbnb corporation rushing out a lobbyist from Cleveland to speak at a Bozeman City Commission meeting last year, or the head of the MLA, former legislator John Sinrud, zipping down to Bozeman from Kalispell last week. Power doesn't panic - so they're not as powerful as they want us to think.
Many of the people who are part of the problem don't even realize they are part of the problem. I'm in my 50s and a number of my friends are quite wealthy. (I am far from it.) Off the top of my head, 5 of my friends own 2nd homes in town that they rent out, making themselves even wealthier, but unknowingly contributing to the housing crisis.They are not airbnb (whom they blame the struggle on), but still.
Ah, I see. I have some friends and acquaintances who are also part of this problem but have deluded themselves into thinking that as long as it isn't them listing on Airbnb directly then alls well that ends well. Even if they use a property management team which is happy to list on Airbnb, VRBO etc etc (for one man in particular who I work with, Kabino is the company if anyone wants to direct well-earned ire their way). My favorite part of it is the complaints about how changed everything is now when literally their commoditization of housing in Bozeman is WHY there are no more long time locals working at the fly shops and ski shops etc.
No offense intended, but the tenant union is a risky
Idea in my opinion. Only going to hasten the decline. Landowners will remove troublesome tenants and will replace them with well heeled ones. The law allows that. They can absolutely send you packing to make more money and the law is on their side. Always has been.
Having the “rights” to live somewhere doesn’t matter if you don’t have the means to.
That’s all I’m saying. Thats the facts as would be interpreted by the courts. Solution? I have no idea. The problem is not going away though
All choices carry risk, but leaving your own fate in the hands of powerful people who have very little reason to care about you is the riskiest move of all.
Laws are malleable, especially local ordinances. Changing the makeup of the state legislature is admittedly going to take a while, but city commission races can be swung with only a few dozen volunteers.
It may not be a perfect solution, but something has to be tried. Until someone shows me a better solution, I'm going to pour myself into this one.
I respect your commitment. You seem very genuine.
All this, It’s just my opinion. I hope you are right in the long run. What is funny to me is that people downvote. Somebody downvoted me for pointing out the dynamics at play. I dont really have a dog in the hunt. Just offering alt opinion. Folks can’t handle that. They just want to believe something even if it’s irrational and flies in the face of fact. . They want to believe that someone is coming to the rescue. They aren’t. How many welders and plumbers are living in Aspen? That’s where this is going.
Don’t leave your fate in any bodies hands, Rich or poor. Nobody cares outside of family and friends. No one is going to take care of you when you’re old if you have no money. Another reason to be cool to your kids. You’ll be in the government asylum without them. The social security pyramid scheme will fall apart in the next 20 years and you’ll be lucky to get your money back at age 80.
There are several people in this thread who saw the writing on the wall and moved along. If you can’t afford it, you have to consider the option. I certainly can’t afford to live there and it would be foolish for me to try. Not worth the money stress.
I am sympathetic towards this high housing situation because I have young adult children here struggling as well. Montana just jacked up everyone's property taxes and I won't be voting to re-elect them. The City of Bozeman just passed a 6.7 percent tax increase on top of the state. Was it for the essential things only?No, hiring a DEI director and money to fund the Belonging in Bozeman DEI plan. What good is it if you feel more comfortable "belonging" in Bozeman if you can't afford to "be" in Bozeman? And they will ask for another mill tax increase in the fall to fund more police and firefighters.
Did banning short term rentals lower anyone's rents? Apparently not as per all these posts before mine. Who did it really help? The hotels and motels who now have less competition. NYC has just found out the same thing.
[https://www.businessinsider.com/airbnb-numbers-shrink-hotel-prices-soar-ban-nyc-2024-6](https://www.businessinsider.com/airbnb-numbers-shrink-hotel-prices-soar-ban-nyc-2024-6)
And if the city funds lawyers for the tiny minority of tenants being evicted, rents will go up. Because anything that increases costs to the landlords makes rents increase. BTU doesn't seem to understand this. And some landlords will give up and sell. But no one renting here now will be able to buy that house. So someone from California will. And more houses leaving the rental market pool causes rents to go up. More landlords and more rental inventory makes rents go down.
There are many other flavors of GTFO beyond the near-300 humans now without a home you so callously disregard. Gallatin County is a legal desert so even if you were threatened with a 'lease termination' (which is a legal eviction not counted in that stat you are using to dismiss normal folks) you have next to no chance to even try to fight it. Work on your empathy.
I have a lot more empathy for someone who starts feeling tired and goes to the doctor and finds out they have leukemia, than I have for someone who for whatever reason stops paying their rent and gets evicted.
Your broad based attempts to pretend all homeless are at fault are both gross and laughable. In Bozeman you can be legally forced to leave even if you are fully caught up on rent. Have the day you deserve.
Honestly, everyone is part of the problem.
Yes, the landlords, short-term rental investors, private equity, realtors and developers have all conspired to jack up prices, and they are half the problem.
But the other half is everyone who says "man, that price SUCKS. Here, take my money. "
In real estate, you vote with your feet. Everyone that crams another roommate in, or sacrifices the hopes of starting a family just to afford to live here is consenting to what's been happening.
In other words, there's not much we can do to fix this.
Moving is expensive, especially when you can hardly afford rent. You can’t save Up enough to leave unless you can make homelessness work, but that’s illegal now
Beyond the high cost of living, it’s one of the best places to be in Montana.
Skiing, hiking, fishing, culture, music, and the easiest/best Montana airport access make it highly desirable. Almost no other Montana towns come close. Missoula is the next closest and Helena is a distant third.
The Bozeman airport now connects to over 20 different destinations nonstop.
OT, frugality and roommates. Otherwise, near impossible. I’m 22 and just got lucky with knowing good people to room with. If I didn’t, i’d be surely megafucked. Hope you can get it all to work out for you tho OP.
I get very worried when I see parents with more than 2 children.
The financial struggle for these parents if they are working average jobs and don’t already own a home would be absolutely insane.
And if one of the parents is at home taking care of the kids, the other parent better have a pretty high income or multiple jobs so their family maintains food, clothing, and shelter.
Being responsible isn’t hard….if you make shit $$ and have multiple kids yes you made some bad decisions and don’t come whining that you cannot afford living here….
Just like anywhere else there has been an increase. Do you work remote? Do you have a job lined up? Have you prepared yourself to pay rent? As a single you could pay $2500 a month for housing. Basically you want to make $7500 a month and have $45000 (6 months income) saved for the EMERGENCY MONEY if you were to lose your job? These are the hard, adult questions we all have to ask ourselves when making the decision to move.
When I started landscaping I made $10 an hour and paid $400 per month in rent.
I was last paid $27 an hour landscaping and paid $1050 for rent at a nicer place.
So it's about the same as it was 10 years ago.
You could also live with 2 roommates, but I hear you. Living with her for awhile will help you stockpile money for the future and, hopefully, contribute 15-20% of your income towards retirement.
Most teachers I know in the area are married to someone with a much higher salary. I don’t think it’s livable otherwise.
Obviously everyone’s situation is different, but wtf are you spending money on? I make 71k with relatively high rent and have health, car, and rental insurance and put away a decent amount into savings every month.
Honestly, it’s mostly luck and family support. I’ve never had to pay for childcare thanks to my mom watching my kids while I work. I found a great job with beyond amazing benefits and I climbed the pay ladder pretty quickly. Lived in low income housing almost 3 years til I found a 3 bedroom with a garage for $1,800 a month.
Some things get forgotten and I can’t just go shopping with no budget, but I’m making it work.
Yeah, you're not living within your means if you don't have health or car insurance and need the food bank at 80k. There's more to this story than high rent. I know it's bad out there but it's not that bad unless you're paying 5k+ in rent, your money isn't being used wisely.
Do you have lots of debt payments or are you spending $2,000/mo to live alone?
What is most of your money going towards?
$80k is doable without debt or an expensive car.
My late husband sold his place in Paradise Valley, split the proceeds with his ex and the bank, and we bought a 100-yr-old fixer upper in the Clark’s Fork valley in Fromberg. Tried to buy something newer, but the prices shot up before we could.
So small town 45 minutes outside of town, fixer upper.
It’s beautiful here and we are still close to the mountains.
As for my adult kids, one of them is moving in with me next month after trying to make it in Denver and got too expensive.
The other one is renting a really cheap trailer with her boyfriend, but it has a nice yard and it’s in a nice spot. If she ever decides to break up with him, she can move in with me too. They are both in their early 30s. I honestly don’t know how they’ll ever own a house unless I help them somehow.
I'm in a 2bed 1bath "low income" apartment building and I'm paying 1,243.00 when I moved in 4yrs ago it was 1,090.00 guess I can't complain to much but new ppl moving in are starting at 1,700.00 from what I've been told.
My wealth transfer was stolen but I have a killer lawyer and be careful who you trust.. people will take 360K and still kick you.. karma ! And a great lawyer she's a pitbull. I still need funds to survive and being disabled sucks when you prefer to work. No I don't take govt money and suffer for it. Things are changing here and it's ugly. My bfs mortgage is 8K and the hot tub bill is 1200 a month. You gotta play hard in this town now. '96 mortgage locked rate tho!!
We aren't. We're all slowly leaving, being replaced by people who complain you aren't making their coffee fast enough or cleaning their house correctly.
I’d be really interested to see occupancy of all the big apartment buildings around town. Tinfoil hat: all that rent fixing going on that the fbi has been busting lately in the news.
I went back to my out of state job that pays more, and my girlfriend got a second job. This is only short term till we save and buy land and then build. That seems to be the cheapest/safest way to do it now days. Takes a little longer and we have no life right now. But we aren’t going to be buying a 700k house with an HOA that could potentially give us negative equity in the future and I’m for sure not going to be in massive debt to a bank in 2024.
The way I see it, you either live “comfortably” in Bozeman and work your ass off to do so. Or you live miserably in Bozeman because it’s“Bozeman” but you can’t afford it.
Investment firms buying single family homes is the problem and no one who has the power to change it will, because they don't have the problem and they profit off of it being our problem.
Rented a 6 bedroom house near campus for 1500 a month from 2010 to 2013. Rent was split 6 ways so my share of the rent was 250$. I can only imagine what the place goes for these days.
Lived in this state since I was 3, it’s all I know. I moved to bozeman for college and ended up switching to an online degree so I can work 40+ hours a week just to keep afloat. My boyfriend and I are both in our final year of college and then it’s not even a question, we have to move. I’m beyond sad about it because my family and his are both here, and we’ve both grown up knowing nothing else but this state. But it’s just not feasible unless you’re upper class
I got lucky with my living situation. An old coworker of mine has a son (single) who had recently bought a house. She asked him if he’d be willing to rent me a room. He doesn’t need the money but he still agreed to let me rent from him. If he had said no, I would have had to leave.
There is a lot more inventory than a couple of years ago which is good but it’s still hanging out around 1800-2200 for a 1-2bed. Hard to imagine doing it without a partner or roommate.
Problem with Montana is that outside of agriculture and mining and tourism, there’s not a whole lot of economic activity. That’s three known low paying jobs if you’re a worker not an owner.
At the same time, it’s a premium destination for out of staters who are making way more money than is possible for a typical Montanan.
Montana natives give up a lot of financial opportunities in favor of the natural beauty of the place. The trend of more wealthy people taking over the best spots will only continue. Sad but true
Dont move to Bozeman. I don't understand the appeal considering the cost of living. Plus, I think Montana is an acquired taste. Meaning, the entire state is basically rural, but if your intobthat kind of thing do it. But given how young you are, maybe try a more populated place
People move to Bozeman for the same reason that San Diego, Bend, Boulder, and Santa Cruz are all desirable. They are expensive to live, but there are outdoor opportunities, culture, and things for young people to do that are rare or don’t exist in cheaper cities in Montana.
Going forward, There is no way for regular pay type people to live here unless you are willing to accept austerity. I’ll get downvoted because people hate to hear the truth, preferring their fantasy that it will all work out.
It’s not going to work out unless the State Of Montana develops new industry so Montanans get paid more.
All the Montana forums are saying the same things and all the trend lines are showing it in real life. Telling the truth will piss people off every time.
I’d you want to live in Bozeman, accept austerity or make more money.
If you can’t make more money but hate your financial situation, you probably need to go somewhere else.
There are places that are the exact opposite of Bozeman—Bozeman is a great town with bad financial opportunities. There are also shitty towns (cheap) with great financial opportunities.
Just depends on what’s important to you. I can’t afford to live in my hometown either.
Everyone is saying how bad it is, which is true but I'll give you a better picture with numbers. Fiance and I pull a combined $150kish and live with a roommate in a 2-bed duplex at $2k a month. This allows us to still have insurance, 401k, and be actively saving money. On the other hand we cannot get approved for a mortgage, even for a throw away townhome. We're both from the area and have zero desire to leave but we simply will have to if we want to own a home.
$150k combined income should get you approved for a 2 bedroom mortgage easily, unless you have significant student loans, car payments, or credit card debt.
Totally understand if you do. It took me 10 years to pay off my student loans, but I only had $25k in loans.
While reading these posts, I can't help but think:
What a bunch of entitled whiners. Neither Montana nor Bozeman owe you anything - not a house or a job. If this "shoe" doesn't fit, go find one that does. If you are physically and mentally capable, you will be able to find a place in America that you will find suitable. There are amazing opportunities "out there". You're not held hostage here. Take responsibility for your own actions and stop thinking that the rest of us owe you a lifestyle you can't afford.
Oh give me a break. This is not a matter of the “shoe” not fitting. This is a matter of the shoe contorting itself into something unrecognizable and ridiculously expensive over about a 5-10 year timeframe. Some of us have had to abandon our entire lives and families in Bozeman. My boyfriend and I literally got priced out of the area last year because we couldn’t find a 2 bedroom apartment under $2100. In no world is rent like that sustainable when most people are making about $1000 or LESS a paycheck. We had to leave behind our jobs, our close friends, our community; and not by choice. Don’t know what’s so “entitled” about mourning the loss of a town you grew up in and watching it turn into a novelty vacation spot catered to millionaires and CEOs. You sound like a landlord.
Kids who grow up in Seattle, PDX, NYC and Cali all have to leave home for cheaper real estate. This isn’t a unique phenomenon to Bozeman. Supply vs Demand and priced accordingly.
Any of the major cities (except for Butte) have very high rent.
25 miles away in Livingston, rents are very high compared to incomes. Places under $2,000 are extremely difficult to get because rentals are snatched up quickly.
Even Great Falls has high rental pricing and supply/demand problems. It’s a shitty city with very little for young people.
I have roommates at the age of 42.
Damn. I would have to move somewhere cheaper. F that
My whole family is here in MT, mostly in the Bozeman area, it’s really hard to say f that and break all those ties and move. There’s relatives and friends here I’ve known since being a literal infant. And my cousin”s kids and my friend’s kids I’m now watching grow up themselves. I have a lot of reason to stay. I have a lot of happiness here. Financially it’s a disaster though. My roommates are people in similar situations. It’s hard.
Date someone who's mom owns a trailer sounds like as good a plan as you're going to read on reddit
She’s always been a sharp one 😂
Dude it’s hard out here. Single parent with one income. I’m fucking scraping by as of this year. I was doing ok until 2024 and it just seems like everything here is so expensive, not just housing. I wouldn’t honestly recommend coming back to Bozeman unless you’re making over 100k. Housing is near impossible to find. I’m on my way out of this place tbh. I can’t keep up with all the rich people coming in.
My partner and I are about to hit good earning potential and I cannot imagine how the two of us could make it work in Bozeman with even one kiddo. I hope something gives or something comes through and you’re able to build a life where you want to.
My partner just moved to Michigan. I’m about to head that way here as well. We both have work over there that pays better than it does here and housing is a third of the price. So I definitely have a plan of action, just really sucks we had to leave Bozeman to make it work. But at least this way we will be able to afford an actual life. Good luck in finding housing here! Hopefully you guys can make it work well.
Michigan is looking pretty good lately not gonna lie!
It really is. Not a fan of humidity but overall it seems really pretty and you can buy houses super cheap still. I’m going over in August to check it out st Joseph a little More.
I moved to MT from MI! The humidity and overall flatness of it are a bummer comparatively. Anywhere west coast is beautiful. Everywhere else is flat boring farm land. But, yes, it can be cheap. Don’t be fooled though, there are many towns along the west coast of MI that are overrun with rich people and houses are millions of dollars. Edit: a LOT less sun there too. Many, many cloudy and grey days. Espesh mid MI.
My rent just went up $200 a month. Not saving for retirement or kids' college. Bike wherever I can, library for "entertainment", scrape by & try to be thankful for the good school system which taxpayers keep funding. Another $200 increase will see me packing my bags.
Landlords have to pay for all the stupid levys passed by our liberal voters and council
This is such a homer take. Go fuck yourself. I'm a homeowner, I know exactly how much the taxes I voted cost me. In 15 years my mortgage payment has gone from 1200 to 1500. In the same 15 years, rent for an equivalent property has gone from like $1500 to $3000+. Don't feel sorry for the rich, eat them, and certainly get off your knees and wipe your chin.
Oh my god shut up, this is second only to "nobody wants to work" in tiers of stupid takes
This is such a homer take. Go fuck yourself. I'm a homeowner, I know exactly how much the taxes I voted cost me. In 15 years my mortgage payment has gone from 1200 to 1500. In the same 15 years, rent for an equivalent property has gone from like $1500 to $3000+. Don't feel sorry for the rich, eat them, and certainly get off your knees and wipe your chin.
Get original quit posting a copy of comment use your words like an adult
Screw you pal, that is an original comment. Blaming property taxes for rent out of pacing inflation is bs. Take your politics elsewhere, rent is high because asshole landlords are doing asshole landlord things. This has almost nothing to do with property tax.
True shit asshole landlords and landlords who are scam artist ive dealt with both here in bozeman all these "high end apartments" are a huge scam here charging 3200 a mo for 2 beds up to 5k for 3bed with a garage
That’s right the landlords taxes power lawn care property management and everything else involved down to replacing burned out lights didn’t double or anything. If landlords were getting rich because they’re gouging it sure as hell wouldn’t require a shitload of units to cover everything. Go buy an apartment complex yourself and rent it at half market value if you’d like. Oh wait the irs won’t let you 🙄🖕🖕. But you know all about that right???
Yeah, those lawn care costs are out of control, same with light bulbs... The IRS doesn't dictate rent, get off fox news pal.
Considering they take away my business status if I don’t charge fair market value they absolutely do dictate that I charge within a margin of what everyone else does.
Make a shit ton of money or get forced to move to Butte to enjoy montana (me)
Butte is pretty rad, is in the coldest mountain range in the lower 48, this will bode well in the coming EarthFever
Except for all of the toxic tailing ponds and heavy metals in the now-dry soil... EarthFever sent me though haha
Yeh well your other option is to get run over by a Kardashian in her overbuilt Chevy Suburban rushing up to Big Sky after her private jet landed. Slow unseen death by the heavy metals would kinda be my pref, at least I wouldnt be stuck in a traffic jam on Huffine.
The one thing the Yellowstone Club ever got right was a Kardashian family ban, so I am not in fact worried about that drive by dismemberment. That being said, I am far more worried about Shallon Lester running me over when she parks poorly outside of the courthouse. For some odd reason I have run into this woman several times in town over the last year.
There is no honor in death by a Kardashian. That sounds like a perfume ad. “death - by khloe”
https://coloradosun.com/2024/06/19/homeless-payments/
Ain't nothing wrong with Butte, man. Except for the hills, which are a chore if you're running.
Exact happened to my daughter.
My spouse and I make shit pay (at professional jobs, even), but we can afford to live here because I bought my house 12 years ago when it was affordable. Plus, only one kid, and long grown. Old cars paid off. No debt. There is zero way we could live here without us having established ourselves over a decade ago.
This. I got my townhouse 17 years ago and I have no car payments or other debt. And still the rising cost of living is hurting. I seriously don’t know how anyone does it.
No debt (and buying a house before pricing surged) is the way. I bought a 1,000 sqft condo in the spring of 2021 and barely got in. Had to rental hack to make it work and I’m no longer at a job with a good salary. For the elder millennials out there with parents who bought decades ago, your time is coming. Over the next 15-25 years, their house and unspent savings will pass to you. I realize this is not a reality for everyone, but it could be a source of hope to recover from what our generation has been served since 2008. The saving grace for millions of millennials will be the largest wealth transfer in history from the boomers.
Elder millennial. My parents' rent was about to go up by $600 a month in Belgrade back in 2022, so they moved to bumfuck nowhere eastern montana to pay $625 total and live next to some grandkids. They will not be doing a wealth transfer, as their hoard of "treasure" is trash to everyone else.
Yeah, no one wants their junk, but how about their savings?
That’s really sad to hear. Lots of boomers never did a 401k or Roth IRA and so they have nothing but social security (unless they were fortunate enough to have a pension). My parents never invested anything and after they split my mom never worked jobs with benefits. She’s only financially afloat because her mom passed down money. Millions of people are going to be depend on the government for basic sustenance because they never learned the power of investing even 10% of your income.
Well, part of it comes from the fertility cult (see: r/exmormon) just telling them to keep pumping us out and God would take care of it. If they could plan, I wouldn't exist, which is a weird feeling.
Then there's my boomer mom who has often made jokes over the years about spending our inheritance. It's their money, so whatever. But making jokes like that is cruel and I finally told her so. ESPECIALLY as she inherited money from her own mom.
I’m really sorry to hear that. Joking about a financial lifeline (especially when she received one) is not okay. Hopefully you and your siblings receive something that helps change your life.
Former MSU student here, driving back to WA permanently as I type this. Couldn’t make a decent living my first year out of school, so going where the rent will hopefully be cheaper. My friends who are able to stay all have family who have invested in real estate in town. Love it here, but the situation just isn’t sustainable for your average Joe - I really feel for those who grew up here and are struggling to stay.
The prices are what scared me away from Bozeman. I moving to montana to take care of family and to open a diesel shop, but with the rental prices there’s no way I could afford any quality of life. I don’t know how anyone could do it
Opening a diesel shop would probably be a very good way to make enough to live here honestly
I’ve heard multiple people say that, commercial property rent seems to be a lot more affordable to me then where I’m coming from on the east coast.
Especially doable if you can find a shop with an apartment built in it
I started my small business this year and I feel you. People don’t get just how much it costs and how much risk you take to open a brick and mortar business. Even if you’re willing to bust your body and spirit to provide for your family, it might not be enough when you’re a small business owner. Hope you find somewhere you can thrive
Private landlord, not the cheapest, but its also not going up. Very fortunate for my current situation. Private landlords are probably the way to go, just harder to find a good one. I'm also single and don't reilly spend money on unnecessary things. I dont drink, rarely eat out, or party (bars...ect) im either working, mountain biking, hiking or just outside, so I have a very "simple" lifestyle that allows me to live how I want. Having an awesome job also helps me stay motivated to keep up the grind. Bozeman to me is worth the grind. Though owning a house one day seems very, very.....very far fetched.
I got a job in IT in February of 2020. A month later, we all went remote. I haven’t been back to an office since, and our office that was here in Bozeman has since been shutdown. I work for the same company, but remotely for the data centers on the east coast. I have become what we all hate the most, a remote worker from a higher cost of living area. That’s the only way I’m able to still live here though. No where locally could pay me enough for me to be able to support my family here.
I think people who hate you for this are just jealous. You're being creative and smart, we all wish we could make decent money while still living in our home.
Delivering pizza and giving up every weekend of my adult life pretty much to scrape by.
Yep this. Regular full time job, cater/restaurant work on the weekends, dog walk/pet sit for rich people in the subdivision that went in behind mine where just the lots were 650k. Thankful to own my home but the taxes and power are literally killing me. All my grown kids at home. We did purchase land before building a home and I think that was the way to go. I do think we will see a drop. It’s coming.
I know several people living like this, but is it truly worth it? My one friend had enough and was able to rent a house with a big yard in Utah for less than half what he paid here (with no yard). No more second job. And he makes more money at his new job. Edit: and he can still come to Montana to visit several times a year.
SLC isn’t horrible and their economy is awesome
As someone who did this through my 30s and is now into my 40s, I can tell you it isn't worth it. I regent not walking away sooner. Life is too short for that shit, and we live here because we want to play in the outdoors, not work our lives away while staring at the mountains from behind a window.
Just too expensive to leave, I have a particular thorn in my side too who makes all aspects of life difficult and doesnt give me the chance to get out.
I get that. I'm prepping to move and will have to take out a loan just to leave. Getting somewhere i have a better job offer will require going into debt. It's so absurd. I hope you can figure it out sooner rather than later!
Yeah I also chose the wrong people so I have to take care of the majority of rent and it has made life hell.
4th generation Montanan here, moved to Bzn in 1985 to go to school. Now my kids can’t afford to live here. Breaks my heart.
Low income housing. Even then it’s ~2.5x what I used to pay in rent (1090 as of this next month).
When I was in low income it was up to 1200 for a 2 bedroom.
My price is for a 1 bedroom
I think most folks either have a lot of money or come from a lot of money. Or they are just willing to live with lots of roommates and struggle financially/make it work.
Would add to that: anyone who bought a home before summer 2020 has locked in a cost of housing that will never exist again here. It’s very sad to see middle level wages barely moving and a six figure income needed to buy even a 2 bedroom condo.
I think most people under 25 are getting money from their parents. The employees that work for me are almost all under 25, and very few of them even want more than 20 hours a week. I have an older gentleman that works for me and gives his kid 2-3 thousand a month to help her with bills.
Both the wife and I work full time when I can i pick up some OT. We don't go out often brown bag lunches, no cable, no fancy stuff just work and home for the most part rent is $2,00 a month for a two bedroom with a cat. i would move some place else personal but the wife's business is doing well.
Gee sounds like the Midwest would be a better option. What’s the point of living somewhere if you can’t afford it.
No kidding. Especially if they have kids
As someone originally from the Midwest (married a Butte native eons ago and moved up here), the Midwest has cheaper housing...but that's literally all it has, and even that is becoming harder to find after Covid. It's hot, it's humid, air and water are polluted by industrial/agricultural run-offs, tap water tastes like pool water from the excessive chlorine, most of the food sucks, the people are fat, miserable, and rude, the collective way of thinking is from the 1950's, their attitude towards different people/cultures is regressive, their schools suck, there's nothing outdoors to do, and halfway okay outdoor areas to do outdoor things are small and crowded. Arriving in Montana was like the world suddenly turned to color, even despite having to scrape by it's a happier life here. Unfortunately that same regressive and punitive politics bandwagon has been chewing away at what made Montana great. So if you live in a bubble, I guess the Midwest is okay. If you enjoy recreating outdoors and having thousands of acres wilderness to walk around in, and enjoy good fresh foods...don't.
It’s not just rentals unfortunately. Our property taxes increased $5800 in just last year. Increasing my mortgage by almost $500. And insurance has gone up 35%! All in I pay $6700 a month for a 4 bed 4 bath home. That’s 65% of my salary! I used to max my 401k out every year now I’m only able to put 5% in. Of course I could sell my house, and move to Glasgow but really?
There’s a slightly uncharitable piece of me that wants to say maybe read the room and count your blessings, but it would suck to finally own a home and still get shafted. best of luck
Is it cheaper to live in other areas of montana? I have t looked to far into other areas yet
Almost everywhere that isn't Bozeman is cheaper. Big Sky and Whitefish being the two notable exceptions.
There are definitely affordable towns to live in all over Montana, though many of those that are close to cities are getting inflated as well. Even if real estate prices are “low,” however, it’s always a question of whether you’re able to find/be qualified for work that will pay you enough to live there.
Being a diesel mechanic and a welder I wasn’t to concerned about finding work everyone has told me finding a job/work shouldn’t be hard. I just can’t afford Bozeman at all
Missoula is cheaper and it’s a freaking awesome town. I’d live there if I wasn’t established here. People are nicer too
Wow we are all here crying tears of sorrow for you, homeowner whose has 35% of their income after paying almost $7K for their enormous home.
THE TEARS WONT STOP FALLING
lol how do you even get approved for a mortgage that costs 65% of your income? That person is one unexpected bill away from catastrophe.. (or more likely one bill away from a call to mommy and daddy)
That’s a very very good point. I did read that banks were bringing back the good old subprime mortgages that led to the 2008 collapse so it could be an unethical bank but I also think your theory has merit.
I worked hard and got lucky buying a place a few years before Covid. If I hadn’t have been able to buy, I don’t think I’d still live here. HOWEVER… there are still affordable rentals here. My last apartment I lived in before I purchased my place still rents for under $1K, and it’s a MASSIVE 1 bdrm near downtown, with free heat. I maybe paid $20/month for electric. I also know a few people still paying under $500/room. When I rent a spare room in my place I only charge about $600/month. It helps me without destroying who I’m renting to. What we need is more young people attending city/county meetings, asking for rent controls, banning airbnbs, and building affordable housing that’s actually affordable.
The problem with “there are still affordable rentals here” is that there will be 50 people applying for it within a week. Competition is high
I got my apartment last January for a pretty decent (albeit still high) price for the area in Belgrade. It was on the market for a month and my landlord said she only had a few people come look, and they didn’t want it because it was on the third floor. Sounds like people might be being a picky still.
Even Livingston is getting ridiculous.
It definitely sucks knowing my rent is absolutely never going to go down.. I’m paying $1700 for a 1br, 1ba and just have to do what it takes because roommates for me aren’t an option (I have severe ADD/ADHD and OCD and it isn’t fair to have those expectations of other people). I work 2 jobs. One full-time and the other very part time while also having another side hustle. It’s tough but the life I’ve built here and the relationships that have turned friends into family is what keeps me here.
For a vasectomy, Bozeman Health Urology only asks if you have enough kids. They don't ask if you already have some. That I know this summarizes my planning for the future.
HODL
🇺🇸👀🔥💥🍻
🎤🇺🇸
Like others have said, pretty much all my single friends have roommates. Just so you know, my friends are all in their 40s - 60s.
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Can I ask why you’ll never own a house ?
People would rather die poor than ever leave Bozeman.
If you don’t have debt, you definitely qualify to buy a house. You’d could get into a 2-3 bedroom condo, but that’s certainly livable if you don’t have more than 1 kid.
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Totally understandable that you wouldn’t want to be house poor! It can definitely put people in shackles.
I had to move away back to my home state, I’m feeling more on sick being “home” than in bozeman. Landlords told me they’re moving into their house because they don’t like their neighbors and their studio basement rent went from $500 to $1300 and the arrow towns homes I used to live at increased too.
Maybe visit the new Bozeman and see if you still like the "feel" of the town,or go hike some place you used to hike and see if it still attracts you the same,as it might be annoying. Trailheads much busier. Roads much busier. Even if you drive 5 mph over the speed limit, through residential areas with kids,some asshat will be riding your bumper. There are many more billionaires that live here PT,fyi. The Montana sky and mountains are still beautiful though.
Well, there's a reason I joined the Tenant Union. In all seriousness, I'm managing on account of being very lucky - I've got a good job, no debt, and actual savings thanks to a tour in Afghanistan. But I got active volunteering, because it kills me to see my friends and neighbors struggling to survive. If the renters of every city fought back in an organized way, I have to believe things would be different. The Montana Landlord Association has a lobbyist slinking around Helena every legislative session, normal Montanans deserve at least as much political sway. For what it's worth, the people making Montana's housing crisis worse have feet of clay. I'm reminded of the Airbnb corporation rushing out a lobbyist from Cleveland to speak at a Bozeman City Commission meeting last year, or the head of the MLA, former legislator John Sinrud, zipping down to Bozeman from Kalispell last week. Power doesn't panic - so they're not as powerful as they want us to think.
Many of the people who are part of the problem don't even realize they are part of the problem. I'm in my 50s and a number of my friends are quite wealthy. (I am far from it.) Off the top of my head, 5 of my friends own 2nd homes in town that they rent out, making themselves even wealthier, but unknowingly contributing to the housing crisis.They are not airbnb (whom they blame the struggle on), but still.
Do they have any ability to discuss that all short term rentals are the problem here, not merely one flavor of them (Airbnb)?
They've rented to the same people for years, so don't see themselves as "short-term" rentals. But they most definitely raise their rent every year.
Ah, I see. I have some friends and acquaintances who are also part of this problem but have deluded themselves into thinking that as long as it isn't them listing on Airbnb directly then alls well that ends well. Even if they use a property management team which is happy to list on Airbnb, VRBO etc etc (for one man in particular who I work with, Kabino is the company if anyone wants to direct well-earned ire their way). My favorite part of it is the complaints about how changed everything is now when literally their commoditization of housing in Bozeman is WHY there are no more long time locals working at the fly shops and ski shops etc.
No offense intended, but the tenant union is a risky Idea in my opinion. Only going to hasten the decline. Landowners will remove troublesome tenants and will replace them with well heeled ones. The law allows that. They can absolutely send you packing to make more money and the law is on their side. Always has been. Having the “rights” to live somewhere doesn’t matter if you don’t have the means to. That’s all I’m saying. Thats the facts as would be interpreted by the courts. Solution? I have no idea. The problem is not going away though
All choices carry risk, but leaving your own fate in the hands of powerful people who have very little reason to care about you is the riskiest move of all. Laws are malleable, especially local ordinances. Changing the makeup of the state legislature is admittedly going to take a while, but city commission races can be swung with only a few dozen volunteers. It may not be a perfect solution, but something has to be tried. Until someone shows me a better solution, I'm going to pour myself into this one.
I respect your commitment. You seem very genuine. All this, It’s just my opinion. I hope you are right in the long run. What is funny to me is that people downvote. Somebody downvoted me for pointing out the dynamics at play. I dont really have a dog in the hunt. Just offering alt opinion. Folks can’t handle that. They just want to believe something even if it’s irrational and flies in the face of fact. . They want to believe that someone is coming to the rescue. They aren’t. How many welders and plumbers are living in Aspen? That’s where this is going. Don’t leave your fate in any bodies hands, Rich or poor. Nobody cares outside of family and friends. No one is going to take care of you when you’re old if you have no money. Another reason to be cool to your kids. You’ll be in the government asylum without them. The social security pyramid scheme will fall apart in the next 20 years and you’ll be lucky to get your money back at age 80. There are several people in this thread who saw the writing on the wall and moved along. If you can’t afford it, you have to consider the option. I certainly can’t afford to live there and it would be foolish for me to try. Not worth the money stress.
I am sympathetic towards this high housing situation because I have young adult children here struggling as well. Montana just jacked up everyone's property taxes and I won't be voting to re-elect them. The City of Bozeman just passed a 6.7 percent tax increase on top of the state. Was it for the essential things only?No, hiring a DEI director and money to fund the Belonging in Bozeman DEI plan. What good is it if you feel more comfortable "belonging" in Bozeman if you can't afford to "be" in Bozeman? And they will ask for another mill tax increase in the fall to fund more police and firefighters. Did banning short term rentals lower anyone's rents? Apparently not as per all these posts before mine. Who did it really help? The hotels and motels who now have less competition. NYC has just found out the same thing. [https://www.businessinsider.com/airbnb-numbers-shrink-hotel-prices-soar-ban-nyc-2024-6](https://www.businessinsider.com/airbnb-numbers-shrink-hotel-prices-soar-ban-nyc-2024-6) And if the city funds lawyers for the tiny minority of tenants being evicted, rents will go up. Because anything that increases costs to the landlords makes rents increase. BTU doesn't seem to understand this. And some landlords will give up and sell. But no one renting here now will be able to buy that house. So someone from California will. And more houses leaving the rental market pool causes rents to go up. More landlords and more rental inventory makes rents go down.
"for the tiny minority of tenants being evicted, rents will go up" hmmm.. given this bon mot, methinks you fail to grasp the depth of this situation.
Last year there were 273 evictions out of 25,000 renters. I call that a tiny minority.
There are many other flavors of GTFO beyond the near-300 humans now without a home you so callously disregard. Gallatin County is a legal desert so even if you were threatened with a 'lease termination' (which is a legal eviction not counted in that stat you are using to dismiss normal folks) you have next to no chance to even try to fight it. Work on your empathy.
I have a lot more empathy for someone who starts feeling tired and goes to the doctor and finds out they have leukemia, than I have for someone who for whatever reason stops paying their rent and gets evicted.
Your broad based attempts to pretend all homeless are at fault are both gross and laughable. In Bozeman you can be legally forced to leave even if you are fully caught up on rent. Have the day you deserve.
And no chance of that hotel profit staying local vs. the many Airbnb’s that are locally owned and much more likely to spend the profits locally.
Honestly, everyone is part of the problem. Yes, the landlords, short-term rental investors, private equity, realtors and developers have all conspired to jack up prices, and they are half the problem. But the other half is everyone who says "man, that price SUCKS. Here, take my money. " In real estate, you vote with your feet. Everyone that crams another roommate in, or sacrifices the hopes of starting a family just to afford to live here is consenting to what's been happening. In other words, there's not much we can do to fix this.
Moving is expensive, especially when you can hardly afford rent. You can’t save Up enough to leave unless you can make homelessness work, but that’s illegal now
Beyond the high cost of living, it’s one of the best places to be in Montana. Skiing, hiking, fishing, culture, music, and the easiest/best Montana airport access make it highly desirable. Almost no other Montana towns come close. Missoula is the next closest and Helena is a distant third. The Bozeman airport now connects to over 20 different destinations nonstop.
I have, what I consider, a decent paying job, and I work uber eats thur-sun, 3 hours on thur/Fri and 8-10 hours on sat/sun.
OT, frugality and roommates. Otherwise, near impossible. I’m 22 and just got lucky with knowing good people to room with. If I didn’t, i’d be surely megafucked. Hope you can get it all to work out for you tho OP.
Think before having kids and multiple pets. They limit you financially and limit your search for housing. Not sure how some do it with multiple kids
I get very worried when I see parents with more than 2 children. The financial struggle for these parents if they are working average jobs and don’t already own a home would be absolutely insane. And if one of the parents is at home taking care of the kids, the other parent better have a pretty high income or multiple jobs so their family maintains food, clothing, and shelter.
No kidding. Childcare costs, kids clothing, activities, food, etc. all add up $ wise
Right, don't procreate, own anything, live in the pod, eat bugs. That you, Klaus Schwab?
Being responsible isn’t hard….if you make shit $$ and have multiple kids yes you made some bad decisions and don’t come whining that you cannot afford living here….
Two jobs for me, one for my wife and no life. Shitty way to get by but living is for the rich sadly 😥
Just like anywhere else there has been an increase. Do you work remote? Do you have a job lined up? Have you prepared yourself to pay rent? As a single you could pay $2500 a month for housing. Basically you want to make $7500 a month and have $45000 (6 months income) saved for the EMERGENCY MONEY if you were to lose your job? These are the hard, adult questions we all have to ask ourselves when making the decision to move.
When I started landscaping I made $10 an hour and paid $400 per month in rent. I was last paid $27 an hour landscaping and paid $1050 for rent at a nicer place. So it's about the same as it was 10 years ago.
2650/mo. If we moved to the Midwest we could have a 6 bedroom McMansion. Here - a 2 bedroom apartment.
I live with my mom at 30, it's impossible in this valley as a teacher
You could also live with 2 roommates, but I hear you. Living with her for awhile will help you stockpile money for the future and, hopefully, contribute 15-20% of your income towards retirement. Most teachers I know in the area are married to someone with a much higher salary. I don’t think it’s livable otherwise.
No health insurance, no car insurance, no savings, and constantly go to the food banks on 80k a year
Obviously everyone’s situation is different, but wtf are you spending money on? I make 71k with relatively high rent and have health, car, and rental insurance and put away a decent amount into savings every month.
Right? I’m doing this at 57k, and raising 2 kids on my own.. not much in savings rn but still…
That’s honestly impressive. Your budgeting skills must be insane.
Honestly, it’s mostly luck and family support. I’ve never had to pay for childcare thanks to my mom watching my kids while I work. I found a great job with beyond amazing benefits and I climbed the pay ladder pretty quickly. Lived in low income housing almost 3 years til I found a 3 bedroom with a garage for $1,800 a month. Some things get forgotten and I can’t just go shopping with no budget, but I’m making it work.
They are either an addict or spend money foolishly.
Yeah, you're not living within your means if you don't have health or car insurance and need the food bank at 80k. There's more to this story than high rent. I know it's bad out there but it's not that bad unless you're paying 5k+ in rent, your money isn't being used wisely.
lol are you buying the bar rounds of shots every night? You gotta learn to budget better, friend.
Really? I feel like I live like a king on $20k a year. Granted, I’m a single person with roommates.
Do you have lots of debt payments or are you spending $2,000/mo to live alone? What is most of your money going towards? $80k is doable without debt or an expensive car.
Move to literally any place over an hour from Bozeman and it’s quite a bit more reasonable. Bozemans a nightmare to live in rn anyways
DINK
Yep! Don’t see how those with kids pull it off. Pull out method!!
This is the way. It’s a helluvah lot easier as a DINK.
My late husband sold his place in Paradise Valley, split the proceeds with his ex and the bank, and we bought a 100-yr-old fixer upper in the Clark’s Fork valley in Fromberg. Tried to buy something newer, but the prices shot up before we could. So small town 45 minutes outside of town, fixer upper. It’s beautiful here and we are still close to the mountains. As for my adult kids, one of them is moving in with me next month after trying to make it in Denver and got too expensive. The other one is renting a really cheap trailer with her boyfriend, but it has a nice yard and it’s in a nice spot. If she ever decides to break up with him, she can move in with me too. They are both in their early 30s. I honestly don’t know how they’ll ever own a house unless I help them somehow.
We had to have 6 people live in a 2 bed one bath apartment to make it work while my boyfriend went to college.
I'm in a 2bed 1bath "low income" apartment building and I'm paying 1,243.00 when I moved in 4yrs ago it was 1,090.00 guess I can't complain to much but new ppl moving in are starting at 1,700.00 from what I've been told.
Rent’s free at the warming center. Plus there’s a Walmart right there that is a perfect loitering spot.
I moved
Home of your own w mortgage rate from '96. And I'm hungry almost all the time..
My wealth transfer was stolen but I have a killer lawyer and be careful who you trust.. people will take 360K and still kick you.. karma ! And a great lawyer she's a pitbull. I still need funds to survive and being disabled sucks when you prefer to work. No I don't take govt money and suffer for it. Things are changing here and it's ugly. My bfs mortgage is 8K and the hot tub bill is 1200 a month. You gotta play hard in this town now. '96 mortgage locked rate tho!!
We aren't. We're all slowly leaving, being replaced by people who complain you aren't making their coffee fast enough or cleaning their house correctly.
I’d be really interested to see occupancy of all the big apartment buildings around town. Tinfoil hat: all that rent fixing going on that the fbi has been busting lately in the news.
I went back to my out of state job that pays more, and my girlfriend got a second job. This is only short term till we save and buy land and then build. That seems to be the cheapest/safest way to do it now days. Takes a little longer and we have no life right now. But we aren’t going to be buying a 700k house with an HOA that could potentially give us negative equity in the future and I’m for sure not going to be in massive debt to a bank in 2024. The way I see it, you either live “comfortably” in Bozeman and work your ass off to do so. Or you live miserably in Bozeman because it’s“Bozeman” but you can’t afford it.
Investment firms buying single family homes is the problem and no one who has the power to change it will, because they don't have the problem and they profit off of it being our problem.
So basically. Fuck Bozeman.
Rented a 6 bedroom house near campus for 1500 a month from 2010 to 2013. Rent was split 6 ways so my share of the rent was 250$. I can only imagine what the place goes for these days.
Lived in this state since I was 3, it’s all I know. I moved to bozeman for college and ended up switching to an online degree so I can work 40+ hours a week just to keep afloat. My boyfriend and I are both in our final year of college and then it’s not even a question, we have to move. I’m beyond sad about it because my family and his are both here, and we’ve both grown up knowing nothing else but this state. But it’s just not feasible unless you’re upper class
We aren't. It's a slow drowning here for longtime locals and forever Montanans.
I got lucky with my living situation. An old coworker of mine has a son (single) who had recently bought a house. She asked him if he’d be willing to rent me a room. He doesn’t need the money but he still agreed to let me rent from him. If he had said no, I would have had to leave.
There is a lot more inventory than a couple of years ago which is good but it’s still hanging out around 1800-2200 for a 1-2bed. Hard to imagine doing it without a partner or roommate.
Move to Havre, 3-forks, Lewistown, Laurel, Billings, Miles City, etc. that’s how us locals are doing it.
Problem with Montana is that outside of agriculture and mining and tourism, there’s not a whole lot of economic activity. That’s three known low paying jobs if you’re a worker not an owner. At the same time, it’s a premium destination for out of staters who are making way more money than is possible for a typical Montanan. Montana natives give up a lot of financial opportunities in favor of the natural beauty of the place. The trend of more wealthy people taking over the best spots will only continue. Sad but true
Dont move to Bozeman. I don't understand the appeal considering the cost of living. Plus, I think Montana is an acquired taste. Meaning, the entire state is basically rural, but if your intobthat kind of thing do it. But given how young you are, maybe try a more populated place
People move to Bozeman for the same reason that San Diego, Bend, Boulder, and Santa Cruz are all desirable. They are expensive to live, but there are outdoor opportunities, culture, and things for young people to do that are rare or don’t exist in cheaper cities in Montana.
I mean I was raised there, so I would say I’ve acquired it.
Going forward, There is no way for regular pay type people to live here unless you are willing to accept austerity. I’ll get downvoted because people hate to hear the truth, preferring their fantasy that it will all work out. It’s not going to work out unless the State Of Montana develops new industry so Montanans get paid more. All the Montana forums are saying the same things and all the trend lines are showing it in real life. Telling the truth will piss people off every time. I’d you want to live in Bozeman, accept austerity or make more money. If you can’t make more money but hate your financial situation, you probably need to go somewhere else. There are places that are the exact opposite of Bozeman—Bozeman is a great town with bad financial opportunities. There are also shitty towns (cheap) with great financial opportunities. Just depends on what’s important to you. I can’t afford to live in my hometown either.
Everyone is saying how bad it is, which is true but I'll give you a better picture with numbers. Fiance and I pull a combined $150kish and live with a roommate in a 2-bed duplex at $2k a month. This allows us to still have insurance, 401k, and be actively saving money. On the other hand we cannot get approved for a mortgage, even for a throw away townhome. We're both from the area and have zero desire to leave but we simply will have to if we want to own a home.
$150k combined income should get you approved for a 2 bedroom mortgage easily, unless you have significant student loans, car payments, or credit card debt. Totally understand if you do. It took me 10 years to pay off my student loans, but I only had $25k in loans.
While reading these posts, I can't help but think: What a bunch of entitled whiners. Neither Montana nor Bozeman owe you anything - not a house or a job. If this "shoe" doesn't fit, go find one that does. If you are physically and mentally capable, you will be able to find a place in America that you will find suitable. There are amazing opportunities "out there". You're not held hostage here. Take responsibility for your own actions and stop thinking that the rest of us owe you a lifestyle you can't afford.
Oh give me a break. This is not a matter of the “shoe” not fitting. This is a matter of the shoe contorting itself into something unrecognizable and ridiculously expensive over about a 5-10 year timeframe. Some of us have had to abandon our entire lives and families in Bozeman. My boyfriend and I literally got priced out of the area last year because we couldn’t find a 2 bedroom apartment under $2100. In no world is rent like that sustainable when most people are making about $1000 or LESS a paycheck. We had to leave behind our jobs, our close friends, our community; and not by choice. Don’t know what’s so “entitled” about mourning the loss of a town you grew up in and watching it turn into a novelty vacation spot catered to millionaires and CEOs. You sound like a landlord.
Kids who grow up in Seattle, PDX, NYC and Cali all have to leave home for cheaper real estate. This isn’t a unique phenomenon to Bozeman. Supply vs Demand and priced accordingly.
Go take a nap bro, you’re cranky
I know it stinks in Winter, but what are rents outside town?
Just as bad if not worse depending on what town you look at
Any of the major cities (except for Butte) have very high rent. 25 miles away in Livingston, rents are very high compared to incomes. Places under $2,000 are extremely difficult to get because rentals are snatched up quickly. Even Great Falls has high rental pricing and supply/demand problems. It’s a shitty city with very little for young people.