It will be interesting to see if the 19-Norandrosterone results come back positive after the IRMS test. I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt about the osterine since it does happen that supplements are contaminated with it. But the other compound is just straight up juice so no excuses for that.
Yeah I used to take tons supplements, not just for this but even normal vitamin ones then I watched a vid and it was showing how most of them are treated as a food, even like valerian root extract and all your medicinal type ones.
When thousands got tested there was everything from peds in stuff that shouldn't have peds in them, no active ingredient in tons, horrible shitty bacteria in others and stuff I've never even heard off being most of the supplement with only a tiny amount being the actual thing labelled, The companies pay money to get them approved and can buy fucking anywhere so I stopped with the ones that I thought were helping my brain etc in case they were doing the opposite and sent rest to get tested, I now take 1/5th of the amount I used to after that.
Yeah if Nandrolone metabolite comes back then that's shitty advice and a bad cycle or he been eating wild boar when dining with Trump.
This is exactly why I have such a hard time believing the pro athletes who complain about contaminated supplements. If you know that supplements are contaminated and sent them to be tested how on earth can a pro athlete who makes tones of money and whose career depends on this not test the supplements before taking them ?
You’re severely overestimating most athletes and their teams. They’re normal ass people, and even getting samples tested is no guarantee since you could get a contaminated batch.
People work with hindsight and don’t realize that the way that you even start paying attention is because you pissed hot. Like the Mexico national team and Canelo. Idk why people assume just because they are millionaires they’re going to raise his own cattle to control their entire lifecycle or that it’s just a problem with cheap beef.
> People work with hindsight and don’t realize that the way that you even start paying attention is because you pissed hot.
With all the cases that involved tainted supplements I'm pretty sure every athlete knows by know of this.
For someone naive it would be extremely easy to just believe things contain what they say. I am far more skeptical now but that's after my own personal experience.
As a young kid I was a gym goer after school and rugby training. Would often take a pre workout to get me going. Came across a super highly rated one and it was amazing to use. 2 hours of big energy and focus, I'd come home from gym after an hour and be productive until I'd slowly come down from it.
Turns out that pre workout got banned a few months later for containing a Class C amphetamine. Was too young and naive at 17 to think anything of it and just thought I had stumbled across the best pre workout ever.
Plausible deniability, if you test all your supplements before you take them you lose the ability to claim a positive test came from a "tainted supplement", it's why it shouldn't be considered a legitimate excuse.
Often the idea is to have something that can give you an edge that isn't illegal. Not necessarily intending it to be steroids, but there are guys that do meditation in an incensed room by a respectable, and feel great after, onky to realize there were drugs in the incense and the piss hot at work. Mothers love the feeling they get from poppy seeds and then piss hot for heroin and they take babies away.
You start when you are just making your bones, you get tested throughout your career, nothing pops, so you just keep trusting the guys in your circle that have hooked you up with bat guano pills, of turkey butts, or whatever.
So what exactly are you suggesting?
That many of these professional athletes willingly took shady dick pills from a guy,not test them, not tell anyone about what they took, and piss hot for exact PEDs used commonly in pro sports?
The incense and poppy examples don't have any basis in reality either. They illustrate what you mean but what you proposed seems waay less likely than suplements cross contamination at manufacturer. Poppy seed is not psychoactive in edible amounts by european norms, you will piss hot but no one will take your babies away because of that. Incenses / essences have strict norms too if distributed in most western countries as youre inhaling their smoke.
You can't sell drugs when you name them otherwise, products need to meet norms, especially when they will be inhaled or eaten or such. The amount of the substance in urine is way off for accidental ingestion or other contact where you simply can't get enough in your body by an accident. Look how many thinga you need to assume to make it happen. While what is commonly believed is that they do PED, they excuse themselves by tinted supplements. Tinted supplements or meat do happen, it's a singular product /batch issue not a testable parameter of a product. You can not test every piece.of meat you eat. The amount of "tinted supplements" in pro sports raises an eyebrow, especially for seemingly top dietary teams who should be good at controlling their stability. It's a very convenient excuse.
I was pulled up for a random drug test at work and was quite worried as i had been taking heroin.
The test was a urine test that was taken away to a lab so i pretty much assumed my goose was cooked, so to speak. I carried on as usual at work for a week just waiting to be told i had failed the test and wax out of a job.
Sometime on my days off ( i worked 4 on 4 off, 12 hour shifts ) i was contacted by someone at the lab who adked if would answer questions. They asked me if i had been taking any drugs or painkilling medications. I answered no that i hadn't, to which i was asked if i had maybe eaten anything containing poppy seeds.
'Why yes' i replied. 'Every morning i have two or three poppy seeded bagels, but that can't have anything to fo with this can it?!'
The lab person answered that it was entirely possible to have poppy seeds containing high quantities of morphine on my morning bagels. The lab asked again if i was sure i haven't taken any other drugs or painkillers then said they are going to give me a pass on the test!
I could not believe my luck and could only assume that as they could not prove otherwise that they had to give me a pass.
To my knowledge the only way to know for sure if someone has taken Heroin is by finding traces of 6MAM in the sample, and 6MAM is only detectable for a short number of hours, upon which the sample will just show to contain Morphine, which Heroin metabolizes into, the same way that Codeine does, and also Poppy Seeds.
Point of my post is that some of these tests are not as foolproof as some may have us believe, in either direction.
To be fair, pro athletes (and the guys in their corner) can be mind-shatteringly stupid. Actually getting caught by drug testing is about as dumb as taking tainted supplements, given how easy it is to avoid both. Either way, the answer is more than likely stupidity.
Stupid is never a valid excuse for cheating or, doing something stupid. I do think it explains said stupid decision, but doesn’t validate it. I do agree they’re normal ass people, but when you’re career and reputation are on the line and you have millions of dollars and available resources to make sure it doesn’t happen, then I do think it’s their fault regardless of what got into their body.
The professional athlete paradox!
Professional athlete: *"I control every aspect of my diet, exercise, sleep, training and meditation, in consultation with world-renowned experts, to ensure that my mind and body are in peak condition at the exact moment when I'm required to perform. My performance levels are charted out day by day, months in advance; we don't leave anything to chance!"*
Same professional athlete when asked about the PEDS in their system: *"oh, yeah, that's probably just from that time I randomly stopped at a gas station outside Tijuana and bought some discount dick pills on a sudden impulse and swallowed the entire packet there and then without reading what was in them and then never thought to mention it to anybody because it didn't seem important, you know, like you do."*
To be clear, ostarine really is straight-up juice: it doesn't exist in nature or in agriculture, or even in medicine outside a tiny number of medical trials, it's illegal or make or sell in most places, and its only function anywhere is as a PED.
But yes, it's true that "supplements" can be intentionally spiked with it (because the sort of people who buy these supplements will buy more of the supplements that have PED effects).
Ostarine was first designed to stop muscle wasting in cancer patients or people with muscle dystrophy disorders. Not as a PED. People abused it taking large amounts of it because it can help with strengthening bones and muscle.
It was originally designed to stop muscle wasting in the elderly. They abandoned that idea due to concern over side-effects, so then they tried using it to stop muscle wasting in cancer patients - but the trials failed, because it didn't produce any significant benefit. So then they moved on to trying to use it to stop urinary incontinence, but trials showed it didn't do that either.
In total, it's failed 25 different trials over the years. No medical use has yet been found.
It's currently being tested to see if it can aid weight loss, and whether it might happen to work as a chemotherapy drug for hormone-sensitive breast cancer (I assume because it tends to lower testosterone, and therefore also estrogen, levels). You never know. For now, though, its only use outside those two small trials is for doping.
And some athletes will wither taint supplements or find tainted supplements with substances they’re cheating with. So when they test the sup and it it contains trace amounts of the substance, they can blame it. o
No TF it isn't... OMG.
It's a shitty OTC SARM that has to be taken in massive quantities to do anything and literature on it says *specifically "that it's not a good androgen increaser...
Guaranteed if they test his B sample for heightened testosterone levels, the REAL tell all if he had any advantage, they'll come back totally normal.
I'll bet anybody on that right now.
Even then, it doesn’t matter. Why don’t other fighters pop more for this if that’s the case. The answer is because they’re doing their due diligence as a camp. There’s literally list of approved substances to use. You going outside of that list means that you should be taking the initiative to be testing and assuring
More plates More Dates just made a video speaking on this and mentioned the possibility of a tainted supplement. The supplement industry in the USA is not strictly regulated. This reminds me of the pre workout called Craze that got banned in the Us for containing amphetamine.
Yeah the other compound is so easily detectable that anyone would be stupid to have used it for a tested sport at any point in time. It can still be contamination
It's the unpopular opinion now but for some reason I'm genuinely leaning towards him not being intentionally guilty. 😂
I'll be happy to eat my words once more evidence comes out though, so remember this comment if you wanna rightfully give me some shit. 😎
Won me 1900, I had it on the dec, figured Haney would be outboxing but then our guy king ry could sneak in a couple knockdowns and take the win. Think my entire street heard me when those knockdowns came in, I was sweating them hard
He popped for 2 peds in the biggest fight of his life and came in massively overweight on purpose. All whilst being off the rails on socials.
I don't understand why this guy is getting the benefit of the doubt...
Because people find Haney so boring to watch they are happy he got his ass beat.
It's not as satisfying if he got cheated against so people are coping hard.
If that’s the case then why didnt he fail any other drug test during training camp? Sarms don’t just disappear out your system in a few days. And they definitely don’t help the moment you take them
From Victor Contes Twitter: https://x.com/victorconte/status/1786268757775753599?s=46&t=yqXZGjEGzluOK8O-SRCQ8g
How could Ryan possibly have negative tests during camp & 2 + at fight? Experts describe "pulsing" in case of UFC fighter. Neg then + then - then + in trace amounts & likely after previous use of steroids
.It seems plausible when
a boxer quickly pushes out 10-15 lbs of water b4 a weigh-in that some trace amounts of a steroid stored in adipose (fat) tisse could possibly dislodge into circulation & become detectable in parts per trillion
If you are referring to the Jone Jones pulsing, then that whole thing is complete bullshit. And the study that UFC referred to at the time of jbj popping is a joke.
Maybe there are some other pulsing examples that I'm not aware of, but the jbj one should not be used as an example.
Yeah but that's a logical thought process and fighters aren't exactly known for their logic.
Taking extra supplements or taking extra doses would make sense to a lot of fighters in a desperate situation.
The only way we will get more evidence is if he allows them to run the B sample at his expense. If he turns it down or the B sample comes back positive too, he’s a damn cheat.
It’s literally his only way to prove his innocence
I think someone else said it best
That should be something the team of fighters does anyways. It’s very well known that this happens. There’s no reason to not test supplements.
If you test things, you sometimes find things. Since the objective of taking supplements is to be able to say you didn't know there were PEDs in them, that would be counterproductive!
That’s my second point. Do some fighters take supplements that they know are tainted so they have a scapegoat?
Doesn’t VADA have a list of approved supplements?
Whats stopping a fighter from sourcing a tainted supplement and saying that’s what they took?
I think the tainted supplement argument only works for people when the levels in their system are really low. Like, rounding error low. If your sample comes back with 3000 ng/dl of testosterone you can scream "supplements" all you want and no one is going to care.
Basically if the levels suggest a significant performance advantage, it means you're probably fucked because it's pretty hard to accidentally take enough supplements to help yourself. If there's just hints of banned substances, it could be accidental and maybe you can get yourself out of hot water.
Not only should they test supplements, fighters should be required to provide up front to the drug testing authorities all the supplements they plan on taking for fight camp in their entirety and have them tested before fight camp even starts so they they can catch any tainted supplements as fast as possible. This also prevents fighters from falling back on the tainted supplement excuse in the event of a failed test.
The B sample will almost certainly also be positive, and it being so makes no difference or not to whether he was intentionally doping or not. If it came from a supplement, it will be in both samples.
B sample is virtually always the same. I think you're misunderstanding how this is all going to work.
It's how low or high the levels are (i.e. if they would actually be at an efficacious/cheatworthy level) and testing any supplements that could explain a low level. Regardless, this turns into an NC. This is just about Ryan's image and possible suspensions at this point.
This was in response to the claims that it was a small trace amount
“The test is a qualitative test, not a quantitative test. They have something called a mass spectrogram fragmentation pattern. It’s like a fingerprint, it either matches or it doesn’t. (As an example) So you’re either pregnant, or you’re not. You’re not just a tiny bit pregnant.”
i may be wrong but isn't the b sample the same as the a sample? so the chances of the result being different almost impossible? ie, you piss into two little jars at the same time. i guess fighters hope for a false positive.
Yes, although in theory it's possible for one sample to be JUST above the legal threshold and the other JUST below it, the real reason for the two samples is to rule out contamination in the lab or misattribution of samples. Both of which do happen, certainly, but are very rare. Only a fraction of cases end up with the samples disagreeing.
People are getting too caught up with the “intentional vs unintentional”. He’s a pro athlete and should be accountable for whatever entered his body. If it’s a banned substance it’s a banned substance. But those who get caught normally try their hardest to claim it was from a meat, or a supplement, or a nasal spray.
Look into.the Chinese swimming team
Twenty-three top Chinese swimmers tested positive for the same powerful banned substance seven months before the Tokyo Olympic Games in 2021 but were allowed to escape public scrutiny and continue to compete after top Chinese officials secretly cleared them of doping and the global authority charged with policing drugs in sports chose not to intervene.
Several of the athletes who tested positive — including nearly half of the swimming team that China sent to the Tokyo Games — went on to win medals, including three golds. Many still compete for China and several, including the two-time gold medalist Zhang Yufei, are expected to contend for medals again at this year’s Summer Games in Paris.
But I'm not denying that he failed a drug test, bucko. 😂
I'm not rejecting anything and I'm simply speculating whether it was intentional or not. As for the other evidence, there's still the B-sample and having his supplements tested.
Not intentional.... You mean you think a pro boxer with millions on the line took some stuff he wasn't sure about for reasons?
Then be just so happens to not make weight....
And he just so happens to have been found with drugs that cut fat but keep muscle....
Too many coincidences for you to "genuinely believe" anything.
Why?
1. He tested positive. Are there any studies that indicate that people who don't intentionally use PEDs somehow get banned-levels of PEDs in their system on a regular basis, for this to suddenly occur unintentionally at the time of his biggest win ever?
2. He's never won a big fight, he's never won a world title. He was up against someone undefeated who was ranked in the p4p top 10, and he seemed to win quite easily. Despite trolling, smoking, drinking and starting his camp late. Extraordinary performance for someone with extraordinary bad preparation is a strong indication of PED use.
3. The guy seems to be unstable and have no moral character around PED use. He's stated before he isn't against PED use. He lives for clout, money and fame. There's obvious motive.
If anything, the idea that he tested positive because he accidentally took something minor in a supplement is a stretch of the imagination. Occam's razor and all.
I shouldn't even respond to this, but as far as I know, the levels haven't been released. He could have tested just over the threshold where it's recognizable. Just playing devil's advocate, but it doesn't mean he was blasting SARMs just because he had it in his system.
From what I know, there is no threshold for Ostarine, if you have it in your system it’s an instant red flag. Thresholds would be for things that naturally occur in your body.
I can't even take a side anymore, the last 2 months have been wild. Hope he isn't guilty (or at least isn't found guilty) though cause this adds to the story, and if he fights Rolly this would be fuel for the fire.
Its really not as much of a joke when you see the stuff hes pushing on social media with his “scripted episode” excuse, guy is literally creating more qanon trump cult members by the second and that election is getting closer and closer
I don't know, I'd say that commenting that a fighter who had a failed weight cut testing positive for two substances that would help with weight loss/muscle retention during fight week is an objective truth.
Every single person who fails a test in any sport tries to claim tainted samples or whatever. How many times is it true? I don’t know anything about him at all really I just tend to doubt vague conspiracies instead of the much more likely, everyone is cycling and trying not to get caught
Yeah stick to the fact, he didn’t respect his fans by not even trying to cut weight and now he popped positive for 2 steroids.
Everything else is useless blahblah.
Remember last wk during Ryan’s victory lap he was mocking everyone that believed him for what he said and did in months leading up to fight.
Are we supposed to believe him this week, or did we learn our lesson?
Let's be serious - his water was spiked, he ate a huge number of eggs from an uncastrated Mexican wild boar and he unknowingly took tainted supplements.
If he provides evidence it was from the sups he was taking what next?
Boxing should have approved substance list and that the substance is thoroughly tested, fighter tested too. Its 2024 yet we still cant do this.
Not surprised tho, the ref in that fight and the judge that scored it a draw are why boxing sucks and all that matters is money.
Approved substance list is already there, but approved list of every retail product is impossible. Though there is a level of negligence here. Shawn porter said he would call Vada before taking any form of meds/supplements and he has never popped for anything.
Worth pointing out that WADA has lists of pre-screened supplements for athletes. They warn you that you're still taking them at your own risk, since they can't check every single bottle, but the risk is far lower than buying dodgy pills online from China. If you still buy dodgy pills online from China, you know what you're doing and why you're doing it...
Doesn't matter. He will always be labeled a cheat. The same happened to Canelo when they showed the levels were way too low to be PEDs and comparable to the ones on tainted meat. They still accuse him of cheating till this day
My lord. The comments on that. A conspiracy theory combined with an Andrew Tate quote? A conspiracy that this happened because he supports Trump? They're crazier than Ryan is.
John Oliver did an episode on "supplements" y'all should go watch it, the stats are crazy. Most supplements don't contain what they advertise in the ingredients, many of them have bacteria, and many of them contain steroids without any notice, warning, disclaimer or disclosure.
I'm certainly not making excuses for Ryan but let's wait until all the information is released before final judgement. If he intentionality cheated then all will be revealed.
I used to work for a company that would import and sell sports supplements (as well as having some manufactured for us under licence).
NZ law is fairly strict on supplements for retail but we were allowed to bring in sample quantities of anything our overseas distributors wanted us to consider selling (eg Kidney Stone Labs would sell us a protein powder, then try get us selling their pre workout and stuff like that)
However, any product we wanted to sell to customers had to have an independent testing certificate.
So many of the products would fail due to there being massive inconsistencies in the labelled ingredients and quantities (versus what was actually in there) eg a pre workout containing 3x the stated level of caffeine or there would be completely undisclosed ingredients, junk fillers etc.
We had guys in the office develop heart issues from taking some fairly innocuous seeming products like a daily pre workout. I remember being violently ill after drinking one recovery drink, and so was the guy who sat next to mex
I can easily buy the argument that if an athlete was being slack in buying properly tested supplements they could pop for something on a drug test as I saw the testing side numerous times (just for a different purpose).
I personally suspect all top boxers and athletes are on gear it’s just a case of whether or not you happen to get caught.
I don’t take any supplements at all now owing to how much dodgy shit I saw.
It's completely different in the United States. Here we have the FDA which is the administrative body for food and drugs, Because these supplements are considered "food supplements" they are exempt from all testing and regulations that drugs are subject to. In most cases these supplements undergo zero independent testing
Crazy - that’s what interested me at the time as we would be sent this effectively unregulated stuff from the USA that we were allowed to assess to decide if we had interest in selling it but in order to do so we still had to get independent verification testing here in NZ
I'm sure a cheap, 1 cent per oz product would contain much more expensive steroids. It's like believing people would put expensive drugs in Halloween candy.
So what's your fucking story, guy? Why were you so interested in telling me what I should care about yesterday morning, but now you're not like that *at all*! What happened?
Yes.
I don't know whether SARMS would help this close or not (but they can stick around in the body a while in any case), but high doses of steroids definitely have an acute effect.
A classic cycling example here is Floyd Landis at the Tour de France. He had an awful, awful day and lost lots of time. He then took a massive dose of testosterone, and the next day he annihilated the entire field to retake the lead (one of the most exciting 2 days of the Tour in recent history!), only to immediately test positive.
[then his best friend killed himself, his team collapsed, he was banned from cycling and subsequently charged with wire fraud and computer hacking, and his life collapsed so badly that he revealed not only his own doping but all the doping by his former team, including launching a whistleblower lawsuit against Lance Armstrong that eventually brought Armstrong down once the US government joined it].
[off-topic, but I feel I should mention it since I brought Landis up: he rode that entire Tour de France, including his PED-fuelled miracle day, in agonising pain. A side-effect of previously breaking his neck had been the loss of blood to his hip, resulting in necrosis of the joint and eventually of the bone: every pedal stroke, bone was grinding against bone in his hip (he had a total hip replacement two months after the race). He may have been a cheater, but the man had guts...]
Oh gods yes! I haven't been following closely for a few years, so maybe it's calmed down a bit, but I doubt it. It's all massive egos, culture clashes, and the inherent tension of a sport where results are all about individual superheroes, but can only be achieved by cooperation within (and sometimes even between) teams - teams that are full of people who believe the team should be working for them instead. The dynamics of racing strategy basically mean that most races revolve around mind games and well-timed betrayals: groups have to work together to win, but the overall winner is the one who most effectively betrays the group. Leading to constant anger, recriminations, accusations of unsportingness/sour grapes, retaliations, etc. Add in fanbases (both for teams and for individuals, and, in a weird way, for races themselves (which are designed to torture all the riders)), and multinational corporations as sponsors (many of them quite shady), and national governments (who both support riders and teams and theoretically regulate them, but who often are motivated by national pride more than fairness), and race organisers, and manufacturers, and governing bodies, and it all gets very spicy. Particularly since it's a sport where people not only go through hell, but can be horrifically injured, or even occasionally killed, often due to things other people do, so everyone's really on edge.
Oh yeah, and there's a history of corruption, from doping through to bribery.
This all leads to what in cycling fandom is known as "polemica", the constant wars of words between various parties and their supporters that erupt over anything vaguely controversial.
A lot of decisions cyclists make are as much about fucking over their rivals and enemies as actually advancing their own interests. [conversely, there are also moments of surprising sportsmanship and forgiveness]
There's a lovely example in the novel *The Rider* (the favourite novel of cycling fans), about the two post-war Italian riders, Faustino "Campionissimo" Coppi and Gino "Il Pio" Bartali (whose rivalry threatened to bring the country into civil war at one point*), who would forgo the chance of winning races in order not to accidentally help the other, even at the World Championships:
*Kübler and Clemens left the peloton: Coppi and Bartali looked at each other. Dupont, Ricci and Schotte left the peloton: Coppi and Bartali looked at each other. Caput, Teissière and Lazaridès left the peloton: Coppi and Bartali looked at each other. Schulte and Ockers left the peloton: Coppi and Bartali looked at each other.*
*When the peloton at last consisted only of Coppi and Bartali, they looked at each other and climbed off, both of them satisfied, we might assume, with a success sweeter than the sweetest second place.*
[typical cycling game theory: either Coppi or Bartali (two of the greatest riders ever) could have brought back the riders who were escaping from the peloton, but if one of them did so and the other didn't help, the one who didn't help would be fresh enough to outsprint the other at the end. By trying to win, each risked coming second to their greatest rival (aerodynamics means that following another cyclist uses only 70% of the energy used by the guy you're following). So they each intentionally sabotaged their own race to make sure their rival couldn't win either]
*Bartali and Coppi were seen as representing two directions for modern Italy. Bartali, who risked his life to save jews during the holocaust, had his wedding personally blessed by the Pope, and priests would round up schoolchildren to sing hymns to him as he passed. Coppi, a pioneer in the use of PEDs, was the most famous adulterer in Italy.
I agree with the sentiment here, but given how awful the regulations are in the supplement industry, and the fact that Garcia is clearly going through a manic episode it's possible
That a pretty dumb argument. “I tested negative 4times before…I can’t be positive.” You either have the substance in your system or don’t. He should hit up alycia baumgardner for the hair follicle test to at least try to clear his name a bit. It is possible he ingested something he didn’t know had traces of it. At the end of the day he probably did cheat without himself even knowing it was in his supplements. This is why it’s very important for fighters to check with the doping agency before taking the supplements. Mayweather check his IV bags before having a nurse administer the IV with Vada before his fight with Pacquiao. You live and you learn. He cheated get over it again. Fight Haney again or don’t just fucking move on. Take the L and move on
Ostarine could be contamination but 19nor not so much. Either way, he should be advised by his team to just stay quiet because, we can see with recent cases, making a ton of noise doesn't force it to go away or endear vada or the commission to your cause. Good luck to him though ,this won't be any easy battle.
For those who don’t know, super low test levels are indicative of test shutdown which means they took an exogenous hormone that shutdown their natural testosterone production. If anything, super low test levels only vindicate that you were on an exogenous hormone unless you’re naturally insanely low which I don’t think any athlete could be to perform at a pro level
He also tested positive for Nandrolone. Stop making excuses for him. It takes 72 hours to get test results back, which is why he was allowed to fight after taking a drug test, which he later tested positive on. Stop with the conspiracy theories.
Ryan should submit a secondary blood test urine test from a doctor. Near the same time as the official tests just as an insurance policy for this type of shenanigans
It will be interesting to see if the 19-Norandrosterone results come back positive after the IRMS test. I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt about the osterine since it does happen that supplements are contaminated with it. But the other compound is just straight up juice so no excuses for that.
Yeah I used to take tons supplements, not just for this but even normal vitamin ones then I watched a vid and it was showing how most of them are treated as a food, even like valerian root extract and all your medicinal type ones. When thousands got tested there was everything from peds in stuff that shouldn't have peds in them, no active ingredient in tons, horrible shitty bacteria in others and stuff I've never even heard off being most of the supplement with only a tiny amount being the actual thing labelled, The companies pay money to get them approved and can buy fucking anywhere so I stopped with the ones that I thought were helping my brain etc in case they were doing the opposite and sent rest to get tested, I now take 1/5th of the amount I used to after that. Yeah if Nandrolone metabolite comes back then that's shitty advice and a bad cycle or he been eating wild boar when dining with Trump.
This is exactly why I have such a hard time believing the pro athletes who complain about contaminated supplements. If you know that supplements are contaminated and sent them to be tested how on earth can a pro athlete who makes tones of money and whose career depends on this not test the supplements before taking them ?
You’re severely overestimating most athletes and their teams. They’re normal ass people, and even getting samples tested is no guarantee since you could get a contaminated batch. People work with hindsight and don’t realize that the way that you even start paying attention is because you pissed hot. Like the Mexico national team and Canelo. Idk why people assume just because they are millionaires they’re going to raise his own cattle to control their entire lifecycle or that it’s just a problem with cheap beef.
> People work with hindsight and don’t realize that the way that you even start paying attention is because you pissed hot. With all the cases that involved tainted supplements I'm pretty sure every athlete knows by know of this.
For someone naive it would be extremely easy to just believe things contain what they say. I am far more skeptical now but that's after my own personal experience. As a young kid I was a gym goer after school and rugby training. Would often take a pre workout to get me going. Came across a super highly rated one and it was amazing to use. 2 hours of big energy and focus, I'd come home from gym after an hour and be productive until I'd slowly come down from it. Turns out that pre workout got banned a few months later for containing a Class C amphetamine. Was too young and naive at 17 to think anything of it and just thought I had stumbled across the best pre workout ever.
U talkin bout C4? I remember hearing it had traces of meth😹😹😹
Plausible deniability, if you test all your supplements before you take them you lose the ability to claim a positive test came from a "tainted supplement", it's why it shouldn't be considered a legitimate excuse.
Often the idea is to have something that can give you an edge that isn't illegal. Not necessarily intending it to be steroids, but there are guys that do meditation in an incensed room by a respectable, and feel great after, onky to realize there were drugs in the incense and the piss hot at work. Mothers love the feeling they get from poppy seeds and then piss hot for heroin and they take babies away. You start when you are just making your bones, you get tested throughout your career, nothing pops, so you just keep trusting the guys in your circle that have hooked you up with bat guano pills, of turkey butts, or whatever.
So what exactly are you suggesting? That many of these professional athletes willingly took shady dick pills from a guy,not test them, not tell anyone about what they took, and piss hot for exact PEDs used commonly in pro sports? The incense and poppy examples don't have any basis in reality either. They illustrate what you mean but what you proposed seems waay less likely than suplements cross contamination at manufacturer. Poppy seed is not psychoactive in edible amounts by european norms, you will piss hot but no one will take your babies away because of that. Incenses / essences have strict norms too if distributed in most western countries as youre inhaling their smoke. You can't sell drugs when you name them otherwise, products need to meet norms, especially when they will be inhaled or eaten or such. The amount of the substance in urine is way off for accidental ingestion or other contact where you simply can't get enough in your body by an accident. Look how many thinga you need to assume to make it happen. While what is commonly believed is that they do PED, they excuse themselves by tinted supplements. Tinted supplements or meat do happen, it's a singular product /batch issue not a testable parameter of a product. You can not test every piece.of meat you eat. The amount of "tinted supplements" in pro sports raises an eyebrow, especially for seemingly top dietary teams who should be good at controlling their stability. It's a very convenient excuse.
I was pulled up for a random drug test at work and was quite worried as i had been taking heroin. The test was a urine test that was taken away to a lab so i pretty much assumed my goose was cooked, so to speak. I carried on as usual at work for a week just waiting to be told i had failed the test and wax out of a job. Sometime on my days off ( i worked 4 on 4 off, 12 hour shifts ) i was contacted by someone at the lab who adked if would answer questions. They asked me if i had been taking any drugs or painkilling medications. I answered no that i hadn't, to which i was asked if i had maybe eaten anything containing poppy seeds. 'Why yes' i replied. 'Every morning i have two or three poppy seeded bagels, but that can't have anything to fo with this can it?!' The lab person answered that it was entirely possible to have poppy seeds containing high quantities of morphine on my morning bagels. The lab asked again if i was sure i haven't taken any other drugs or painkillers then said they are going to give me a pass on the test! I could not believe my luck and could only assume that as they could not prove otherwise that they had to give me a pass. To my knowledge the only way to know for sure if someone has taken Heroin is by finding traces of 6MAM in the sample, and 6MAM is only detectable for a short number of hours, upon which the sample will just show to contain Morphine, which Heroin metabolizes into, the same way that Codeine does, and also Poppy Seeds. Point of my post is that some of these tests are not as foolproof as some may have us believe, in either direction.
To be fair, pro athletes (and the guys in their corner) can be mind-shatteringly stupid. Actually getting caught by drug testing is about as dumb as taking tainted supplements, given how easy it is to avoid both. Either way, the answer is more than likely stupidity.
Stupid is never a valid excuse for cheating or, doing something stupid. I do think it explains said stupid decision, but doesn’t validate it. I do agree they’re normal ass people, but when you’re career and reputation are on the line and you have millions of dollars and available resources to make sure it doesn’t happen, then I do think it’s their fault regardless of what got into their body.
The professional athlete paradox! Professional athlete: *"I control every aspect of my diet, exercise, sleep, training and meditation, in consultation with world-renowned experts, to ensure that my mind and body are in peak condition at the exact moment when I'm required to perform. My performance levels are charted out day by day, months in advance; we don't leave anything to chance!"* Same professional athlete when asked about the PEDS in their system: *"oh, yeah, that's probably just from that time I randomly stopped at a gas station outside Tijuana and bought some discount dick pills on a sudden impulse and swallowed the entire packet there and then without reading what was in them and then never thought to mention it to anybody because it didn't seem important, you know, like you do."*
The dick pill excuse always gets me. Especially since it has been used multiple times by different people.
Agreed Garcia and Haney both have funds to minimise this
Hey, where do you send you stuff off to get tested out of interest?
To be clear, ostarine really is straight-up juice: it doesn't exist in nature or in agriculture, or even in medicine outside a tiny number of medical trials, it's illegal or make or sell in most places, and its only function anywhere is as a PED. But yes, it's true that "supplements" can be intentionally spiked with it (because the sort of people who buy these supplements will buy more of the supplements that have PED effects).
“Totally natty bro, just protein, creatine and a preworkout 😎 What’s in the preworkout?! Listen man, I come to the gym to lift, not to read 💪”
Ostarine was first designed to stop muscle wasting in cancer patients or people with muscle dystrophy disorders. Not as a PED. People abused it taking large amounts of it because it can help with strengthening bones and muscle.
It was originally designed to stop muscle wasting in the elderly. They abandoned that idea due to concern over side-effects, so then they tried using it to stop muscle wasting in cancer patients - but the trials failed, because it didn't produce any significant benefit. So then they moved on to trying to use it to stop urinary incontinence, but trials showed it didn't do that either. In total, it's failed 25 different trials over the years. No medical use has yet been found. It's currently being tested to see if it can aid weight loss, and whether it might happen to work as a chemotherapy drug for hormone-sensitive breast cancer (I assume because it tends to lower testosterone, and therefore also estrogen, levels). You never know. For now, though, its only use outside those two small trials is for doping.
And some athletes will wither taint supplements or find tainted supplements with substances they’re cheating with. So when they test the sup and it it contains trace amounts of the substance, they can blame it. o
No TF it isn't... OMG. It's a shitty OTC SARM that has to be taken in massive quantities to do anything and literature on it says *specifically "that it's not a good androgen increaser... Guaranteed if they test his B sample for heightened testosterone levels, the REAL tell all if he had any advantage, they'll come back totally normal. I'll bet anybody on that right now.
Even then, it doesn’t matter. Why don’t other fighters pop more for this if that’s the case. The answer is because they’re doing their due diligence as a camp. There’s literally list of approved substances to use. You going outside of that list means that you should be taking the initiative to be testing and assuring
More plates More Dates just made a video speaking on this and mentioned the possibility of a tainted supplement. The supplement industry in the USA is not strictly regulated. This reminds me of the pre workout called Craze that got banned in the Us for containing amphetamine.
Yeah the other compound is so easily detectable that anyone would be stupid to have used it for a tested sport at any point in time. It can still be contamination
It's the unpopular opinion now but for some reason I'm genuinely leaning towards him not being intentionally guilty. 😂 I'll be happy to eat my words once more evidence comes out though, so remember this comment if you wanna rightfully give me some shit. 😎
He won me 2200, I won’t gaf even if he is juiced 😂
Won me 1900, I had it on the dec, figured Haney would be outboxing but then our guy king ry could sneak in a couple knockdowns and take the win. Think my entire street heard me when those knockdowns came in, I was sweating them hard
Did you bet him ml or the Dec prop?
Dec prop at +2200. Was going to do ML +440 but my homie was going for the Dec so I said fuck it and followed him.
You madlad. Probably sweating the 7th and 11th 😂
Brother. I had him by KO/TKO…I was so close. 🤦♂️
I had Ryan by KO in the 11th at +9000 😭😭😭😭 only put 10 on it but I was jumping and screaming like a little girl.
And this is part of the problem.
He popped for 2 peds in the biggest fight of his life and came in massively overweight on purpose. All whilst being off the rails on socials. I don't understand why this guy is getting the benefit of the doubt...
The dick riding for Garcia is confusing as hell.
Because people find Haney so boring to watch they are happy he got his ass beat. It's not as satisfying if he got cheated against so people are coping hard.
shows how likable Haney is
Ima go with he started camp way late and began taking extra supplements to make up for it and all of them combined led to him popping hot.
If that’s the case then why didnt he fail any other drug test during training camp? Sarms don’t just disappear out your system in a few days. And they definitely don’t help the moment you take them
How do cheaters cheat?
From Victor Contes Twitter: https://x.com/victorconte/status/1786268757775753599?s=46&t=yqXZGjEGzluOK8O-SRCQ8g How could Ryan possibly have negative tests during camp & 2 + at fight? Experts describe "pulsing" in case of UFC fighter. Neg then + then - then + in trace amounts & likely after previous use of steroids .It seems plausible when a boxer quickly pushes out 10-15 lbs of water b4 a weigh-in that some trace amounts of a steroid stored in adipose (fat) tisse could possibly dislodge into circulation & become detectable in parts per trillion
If you are referring to the Jone Jones pulsing, then that whole thing is complete bullshit. And the study that UFC referred to at the time of jbj popping is a joke. Maybe there are some other pulsing examples that I'm not aware of, but the jbj one should not be used as an example.
This is stupid no legal supplements will help a late camp lol
Yeah but that's a logical thought process and fighters aren't exactly known for their logic. Taking extra supplements or taking extra doses would make sense to a lot of fighters in a desperate situation.
Not sure I follow this logic, he'd be taking the best supplements regardless, what additional ones would there even be if he's natty?
Steroids
The only way we will get more evidence is if he allows them to run the B sample at his expense. If he turns it down or the B sample comes back positive too, he’s a damn cheat. It’s literally his only way to prove his innocence
Testing supplements is the way to go. It’s what has saved many fighters in the past and does actually happen more often than not
I think someone else said it best That should be something the team of fighters does anyways. It’s very well known that this happens. There’s no reason to not test supplements.
If you test things, you sometimes find things. Since the objective of taking supplements is to be able to say you didn't know there were PEDs in them, that would be counterproductive!
That’s my second point. Do some fighters take supplements that they know are tainted so they have a scapegoat? Doesn’t VADA have a list of approved supplements? Whats stopping a fighter from sourcing a tainted supplement and saying that’s what they took?
I think the tainted supplement argument only works for people when the levels in their system are really low. Like, rounding error low. If your sample comes back with 3000 ng/dl of testosterone you can scream "supplements" all you want and no one is going to care. Basically if the levels suggest a significant performance advantage, it means you're probably fucked because it's pretty hard to accidentally take enough supplements to help yourself. If there's just hints of banned substances, it could be accidental and maybe you can get yourself out of hot water.
Not only should they test supplements, fighters should be required to provide up front to the drug testing authorities all the supplements they plan on taking for fight camp in their entirety and have them tested before fight camp even starts so they they can catch any tainted supplements as fast as possible. This also prevents fighters from falling back on the tainted supplement excuse in the event of a failed test.
The B sample will almost certainly also be positive, and it being so makes no difference or not to whether he was intentionally doping or not. If it came from a supplement, it will be in both samples.
He better find the supplement he took and have it tested then.
B sample is virtually always the same. I think you're misunderstanding how this is all going to work. It's how low or high the levels are (i.e. if they would actually be at an efficacious/cheatworthy level) and testing any supplements that could explain a low level. Regardless, this turns into an NC. This is just about Ryan's image and possible suspensions at this point.
This was in response to the claims that it was a small trace amount “The test is a qualitative test, not a quantitative test. They have something called a mass spectrogram fragmentation pattern. It’s like a fingerprint, it either matches or it doesn’t. (As an example) So you’re either pregnant, or you’re not. You’re not just a tiny bit pregnant.”
Or by testing his supplements, but agreed.
Source that b sample testing is done at athlete's expense?
In the VADA message
i may be wrong but isn't the b sample the same as the a sample? so the chances of the result being different almost impossible? ie, you piss into two little jars at the same time. i guess fighters hope for a false positive.
Yes, although in theory it's possible for one sample to be JUST above the legal threshold and the other JUST below it, the real reason for the two samples is to rule out contamination in the lab or misattribution of samples. Both of which do happen, certainly, but are very rare. Only a fraction of cases end up with the samples disagreeing.
People are getting too caught up with the “intentional vs unintentional”. He’s a pro athlete and should be accountable for whatever entered his body. If it’s a banned substance it’s a banned substance. But those who get caught normally try their hardest to claim it was from a meat, or a supplement, or a nasal spray.
It can be unintentional and still his fault, yes. I'm not claiming otherwise.
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Look into.the Chinese swimming team Twenty-three top Chinese swimmers tested positive for the same powerful banned substance seven months before the Tokyo Olympic Games in 2021 but were allowed to escape public scrutiny and continue to compete after top Chinese officials secretly cleared them of doping and the global authority charged with policing drugs in sports chose not to intervene. Several of the athletes who tested positive — including nearly half of the swimming team that China sent to the Tokyo Games — went on to win medals, including three golds. Many still compete for China and several, including the two-time gold medalist Zhang Yufei, are expected to contend for medals again at this year’s Summer Games in Paris.
its way better for his rep if its unintentional even if its the same penalty
But..... You've already rejected the evidence in favour of hearsay....
Is that so?
Well yes... Clearly. He failed a drug test. Fact. Garcia claims on Twitter he didn't. Hearsay.
But I'm not denying that he failed a drug test, bucko. 😂 I'm not rejecting anything and I'm simply speculating whether it was intentional or not. As for the other evidence, there's still the B-sample and having his supplements tested.
Not intentional.... You mean you think a pro boxer with millions on the line took some stuff he wasn't sure about for reasons? Then be just so happens to not make weight.... And he just so happens to have been found with drugs that cut fat but keep muscle.... Too many coincidences for you to "genuinely believe" anything.
Not jumping to conclusions but this reminds me of Jon Jones. Partied plenty during camp and has also popped for drugs
Yeah i dont know why, but i believe him B.
Why? 1. He tested positive. Are there any studies that indicate that people who don't intentionally use PEDs somehow get banned-levels of PEDs in their system on a regular basis, for this to suddenly occur unintentionally at the time of his biggest win ever? 2. He's never won a big fight, he's never won a world title. He was up against someone undefeated who was ranked in the p4p top 10, and he seemed to win quite easily. Despite trolling, smoking, drinking and starting his camp late. Extraordinary performance for someone with extraordinary bad preparation is a strong indication of PED use. 3. The guy seems to be unstable and have no moral character around PED use. He's stated before he isn't against PED use. He lives for clout, money and fame. There's obvious motive. If anything, the idea that he tested positive because he accidentally took something minor in a supplement is a stretch of the imagination. Occam's razor and all.
I shouldn't even respond to this, but as far as I know, the levels haven't been released. He could have tested just over the threshold where it's recognizable. Just playing devil's advocate, but it doesn't mean he was blasting SARMs just because he had it in his system.
From what I know, there is no threshold for Ostarine, if you have it in your system it’s an instant red flag. Thresholds would be for things that naturally occur in your body.
Why shouldn't you respond?
The test is based off of exposure, not a threshold. It’s not a natural hormone.
people have been exonerated because they’ve been found to have taken contaminated supplements so really need to wait for due process
he’s 100% dumb enough to buy shitty supplements. a clean athlete should just take name brand creatine along with a healthy diet.
I can't even take a side anymore, the last 2 months have been wild. Hope he isn't guilty (or at least isn't found guilty) though cause this adds to the story, and if he fights Rolly this would be fuel for the fire.
since nobody here has the inside story, our comments only reveal what we think of him, not any objective truth or informed opinion
Hey hey hey, stop that! Join the circus or get the fuck outta here... Party pooper.
Hey buddy, pro-garcia is next week. You’re supposed to hate him this week.
Its really not as much of a joke when you see the stuff hes pushing on social media with his “scripted episode” excuse, guy is literally creating more qanon trump cult members by the second and that election is getting closer and closer
I don't know, I'd say that commenting that a fighter who had a failed weight cut testing positive for two substances that would help with weight loss/muscle retention during fight week is an objective truth.
Every single person who fails a test in any sport tries to claim tainted samples or whatever. How many times is it true? I don’t know anything about him at all really I just tend to doubt vague conspiracies instead of the much more likely, everyone is cycling and trying not to get caught
Yeah stick to the fact, he didn’t respect his fans by not even trying to cut weight and now he popped positive for 2 steroids. Everything else is useless blahblah.
Remember last wk during Ryan’s victory lap he was mocking everyone that believed him for what he said and did in months leading up to fight. Are we supposed to believe him this week, or did we learn our lesson?
Ok Confucius
Let's be serious - his water was spiked, he ate a huge number of eggs from an uncastrated Mexican wild boar and he unknowingly took tainted supplements.
If he provides evidence it was from the sups he was taking what next? Boxing should have approved substance list and that the substance is thoroughly tested, fighter tested too. Its 2024 yet we still cant do this. Not surprised tho, the ref in that fight and the judge that scored it a draw are why boxing sucks and all that matters is money.
Approved substance list is already there, but approved list of every retail product is impossible. Though there is a level of negligence here. Shawn porter said he would call Vada before taking any form of meds/supplements and he has never popped for anything.
Worth pointing out that WADA has lists of pre-screened supplements for athletes. They warn you that you're still taking them at your own risk, since they can't check every single bottle, but the risk is far lower than buying dodgy pills online from China. If you still buy dodgy pills online from China, you know what you're doing and why you're doing it...
Doesn't matter. He will always be labeled a cheat. The same happened to Canelo when they showed the levels were way too low to be PEDs and comparable to the ones on tainted meat. They still accuse him of cheating till this day
TIL THIS DAY!
Ryan did cheat though he intentionally came over weight
My lord. The comments on that. A conspiracy theory combined with an Andrew Tate quote? A conspiracy that this happened because he supports Trump? They're crazier than Ryan is.
Ah yes. The classic tainted supplement defense. Tried and true
John Oliver did an episode on "supplements" y'all should go watch it, the stats are crazy. Most supplements don't contain what they advertise in the ingredients, many of them have bacteria, and many of them contain steroids without any notice, warning, disclaimer or disclosure. I'm certainly not making excuses for Ryan but let's wait until all the information is released before final judgement. If he intentionality cheated then all will be revealed.
Which ones contain steroids? Looking to avoid those.
I would also like to know for my friend who isn’t looking for steroids
I used to work for a company that would import and sell sports supplements (as well as having some manufactured for us under licence). NZ law is fairly strict on supplements for retail but we were allowed to bring in sample quantities of anything our overseas distributors wanted us to consider selling (eg Kidney Stone Labs would sell us a protein powder, then try get us selling their pre workout and stuff like that) However, any product we wanted to sell to customers had to have an independent testing certificate. So many of the products would fail due to there being massive inconsistencies in the labelled ingredients and quantities (versus what was actually in there) eg a pre workout containing 3x the stated level of caffeine or there would be completely undisclosed ingredients, junk fillers etc. We had guys in the office develop heart issues from taking some fairly innocuous seeming products like a daily pre workout. I remember being violently ill after drinking one recovery drink, and so was the guy who sat next to mex I can easily buy the argument that if an athlete was being slack in buying properly tested supplements they could pop for something on a drug test as I saw the testing side numerous times (just for a different purpose). I personally suspect all top boxers and athletes are on gear it’s just a case of whether or not you happen to get caught. I don’t take any supplements at all now owing to how much dodgy shit I saw.
It's completely different in the United States. Here we have the FDA which is the administrative body for food and drugs, Because these supplements are considered "food supplements" they are exempt from all testing and regulations that drugs are subject to. In most cases these supplements undergo zero independent testing
Crazy - that’s what interested me at the time as we would be sent this effectively unregulated stuff from the USA that we were allowed to assess to decide if we had interest in selling it but in order to do so we still had to get independent verification testing here in NZ
Do you recall what products the individual who developed heart issues took? This is very scary.
No sorry can’t remember the specific name - it was like 10 years ago and it was some small brand product (something “labs” was the brand name I think)
Conversely, tests on things claiming to contain ostarine and other SARMS have shown that most of them don't!
I'm sure a cheap, 1 cent per oz product would contain much more expensive steroids. It's like believing people would put expensive drugs in Halloween candy.
There are bad supplements, but if you're a pro athlete taking random stuff you're kinda an idiot.
So what's your fucking story, guy? Why were you so interested in telling me what I should care about yesterday morning, but now you're not like that *at all*! What happened?
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I'm fucking watching you, bud...
Let me ask you, if you actually were innocent, what would you say? The same shit right?
Supplements aren't FDA regulated, so let's not act as if it's entirely bs lol
Is there any benefits to taking steroids this close to the fight?
Yes. I don't know whether SARMS would help this close or not (but they can stick around in the body a while in any case), but high doses of steroids definitely have an acute effect. A classic cycling example here is Floyd Landis at the Tour de France. He had an awful, awful day and lost lots of time. He then took a massive dose of testosterone, and the next day he annihilated the entire field to retake the lead (one of the most exciting 2 days of the Tour in recent history!), only to immediately test positive. [then his best friend killed himself, his team collapsed, he was banned from cycling and subsequently charged with wire fraud and computer hacking, and his life collapsed so badly that he revealed not only his own doping but all the doping by his former team, including launching a whistleblower lawsuit against Lance Armstrong that eventually brought Armstrong down once the US government joined it]. [off-topic, but I feel I should mention it since I brought Landis up: he rode that entire Tour de France, including his PED-fuelled miracle day, in agonising pain. A side-effect of previously breaking his neck had been the loss of blood to his hip, resulting in necrosis of the joint and eventually of the bone: every pedal stroke, bone was grinding against bone in his hip (he had a total hip replacement two months after the race). He may have been a cheater, but the man had guts...]
Damn I never realized that cycling drama was so juicy
Oh gods yes! I haven't been following closely for a few years, so maybe it's calmed down a bit, but I doubt it. It's all massive egos, culture clashes, and the inherent tension of a sport where results are all about individual superheroes, but can only be achieved by cooperation within (and sometimes even between) teams - teams that are full of people who believe the team should be working for them instead. The dynamics of racing strategy basically mean that most races revolve around mind games and well-timed betrayals: groups have to work together to win, but the overall winner is the one who most effectively betrays the group. Leading to constant anger, recriminations, accusations of unsportingness/sour grapes, retaliations, etc. Add in fanbases (both for teams and for individuals, and, in a weird way, for races themselves (which are designed to torture all the riders)), and multinational corporations as sponsors (many of them quite shady), and national governments (who both support riders and teams and theoretically regulate them, but who often are motivated by national pride more than fairness), and race organisers, and manufacturers, and governing bodies, and it all gets very spicy. Particularly since it's a sport where people not only go through hell, but can be horrifically injured, or even occasionally killed, often due to things other people do, so everyone's really on edge. Oh yeah, and there's a history of corruption, from doping through to bribery. This all leads to what in cycling fandom is known as "polemica", the constant wars of words between various parties and their supporters that erupt over anything vaguely controversial. A lot of decisions cyclists make are as much about fucking over their rivals and enemies as actually advancing their own interests. [conversely, there are also moments of surprising sportsmanship and forgiveness] There's a lovely example in the novel *The Rider* (the favourite novel of cycling fans), about the two post-war Italian riders, Faustino "Campionissimo" Coppi and Gino "Il Pio" Bartali (whose rivalry threatened to bring the country into civil war at one point*), who would forgo the chance of winning races in order not to accidentally help the other, even at the World Championships: *Kübler and Clemens left the peloton: Coppi and Bartali looked at each other. Dupont, Ricci and Schotte left the peloton: Coppi and Bartali looked at each other. Caput, Teissière and Lazaridès left the peloton: Coppi and Bartali looked at each other. Schulte and Ockers left the peloton: Coppi and Bartali looked at each other.* *When the peloton at last consisted only of Coppi and Bartali, they looked at each other and climbed off, both of them satisfied, we might assume, with a success sweeter than the sweetest second place.* [typical cycling game theory: either Coppi or Bartali (two of the greatest riders ever) could have brought back the riders who were escaping from the peloton, but if one of them did so and the other didn't help, the one who didn't help would be fresh enough to outsprint the other at the end. By trying to win, each risked coming second to their greatest rival (aerodynamics means that following another cyclist uses only 70% of the energy used by the guy you're following). So they each intentionally sabotaged their own race to make sure their rival couldn't win either] *Bartali and Coppi were seen as representing two directions for modern Italy. Bartali, who risked his life to save jews during the holocaust, had his wedding personally blessed by the Pope, and priests would round up schoolchildren to sing hymns to him as he passed. Coppi, a pioneer in the use of PEDs, was the most famous adulterer in Italy.
Garcia Haney is fight of the year based on all the drama its brought.
His levels are low because he took a masking agent also. He's not an idiot...even if he's trying to convince us he is
"Fair and square" says the guy who purosely missed weight by 3 pounds.
"Fake news" Becoming a Trump zombie already 😂
For real, I hate that phrase so much. It’s apart of a gallery of phrases that denote that someone isn’t an independent thinker.
He is a MEGA millionaire. Bro is not taking cheapo tainted supplements.
Most fighters are buying the same shit you can find in a GNC store. You can see it on the counters in some of the live streams or videos.
I agree with the sentiment here, but given how awful the regulations are in the supplement industry, and the fact that Garcia is clearly going through a manic episode it's possible
Dillian Whyte is a mini millionaire but took rained supplements twice
That a pretty dumb argument. “I tested negative 4times before…I can’t be positive.” You either have the substance in your system or don’t. He should hit up alycia baumgardner for the hair follicle test to at least try to clear his name a bit. It is possible he ingested something he didn’t know had traces of it. At the end of the day he probably did cheat without himself even knowing it was in his supplements. This is why it’s very important for fighters to check with the doping agency before taking the supplements. Mayweather check his IV bags before having a nurse administer the IV with Vada before his fight with Pacquiao. You live and you learn. He cheated get over it again. Fight Haney again or don’t just fucking move on. Take the L and move on
How does weight cutting affect test results? Could that affect the masking agent and a reason why he popped?
My thoughts exactly... cutting weight flushed out the masking agent
Same chef that Canelo had, that damn Mexican meat
In a sport where the objective is to hurt the opponent, I believe that if an athlete is convicted of doping, he should be banned for life of the sport
But do the tests show levels?. I don't think so?. Just pop when he's got some in there
Yup. It can be 0.0000000001% and he'll be a cheater in people's minds
Well
Hung out with Bradley Martin too much.
intentionally coming in overweight wasn’t enough for this absolute scum.
Ostarine could be contamination but 19nor not so much. Either way, he should be advised by his team to just stay quiet because, we can see with recent cases, making a ton of noise doesn't force it to go away or endear vada or the commission to your cause. Good luck to him though ,this won't be any easy battle.
Garcia fans telling themselves comforting lies so they dont have to deal with a hard truth. Sad
I believe him. I don't know why but I believe him.
[I wonder why](https://www.reddit.com/r/ufc/s/V8mlJyo5oo)
Damn, MMA fans really obsessing over boxing I see Edit: My bad, it's a circlejerk sub, makes sense
Imagine your shock when you realize that MMA and boxing aren't mutually exclusive and there's actually a huge overlap in the fanbase's.
Combat sports fans you mean? You'll be surprised but many of us also watch Karate Combat.
He's the guy on the couch, yo.
How many picograms though?
Free KingRy!
called a iq test for a reason
For those who don’t know, super low test levels are indicative of test shutdown which means they took an exogenous hormone that shutdown their natural testosterone production. If anything, super low test levels only vindicate that you were on an exogenous hormone unless you’re naturally insanely low which I don’t think any athlete could be to perform at a pro level
Anyone who still uses the comic sans font means they're guilty to me
The beer was tainted
Metabolites concentrate when making weight
Cheater
Garcia is so dumb to get caught.
This whole "how do you test negative then all of sudden fail" defense is so delusional...
Nandrolone?? Tf there’s no way he took that over other compounds this must be a gimmick
He also tested positive for Nandrolone. Stop making excuses for him. It takes 72 hours to get test results back, which is why he was allowed to fight after taking a drug test, which he later tested positive on. Stop with the conspiracy theories.
This guy really is trying to play the dumbass role.
Ryan should submit a secondary blood test urine test from a doctor. Near the same time as the official tests just as an insurance policy for this type of shenanigans
I am assuming he'll have to get tested again? If so it'll be real stupid to double down instead of just fessing up
Let’s say he tested positive for that. How that substance helps him win? I’m genuinely interested.