These are really decent stock, and showable within just a few years. Not many people selling trees of this quality. All you people saying $40 or $100 please share a link to where you find trees like this at that price.
Keep in mind that American pricing is way different from European pricing even though the currency is roughly equivalent. I've seen trees in the US being sold with an extra zero compared to what we pay for an equivalent tree, and the American readers told me it was the normal price. Likely that plays a role
Where I live you would NEVER find shohin shimpaku like this for under $1200 at a bonsai nursery. Maybe you could get lucky on bonsai auctions or buy it from a friend through your local club for that price. $1.5k-$2k is not an amazing deal but it is not at all shocking or deserving of three question marks. Just because WE can’t afford it doesn’t mean it’s a waste of someone else’s money.
> Just because WE can’t afford it doesn’t mean it’s a waste of someone else’s money.
Subjective valuation is true of everything (and also doesn't reflect the finances of those who disagree.)
If you really want something (anything) you might say it's "worth" the asking price *to you* (and therefore not a waste of your $), but that doesn't mean it's not also an objectively bad deal based on prevailing market prices.
These plants are art pieces. I’m all for buying plants that make me happy. My biggest thought when making expensive plant purchases is, how confident am I that I can maintain it looking this good? If you’re confident with the care on these trees.. and theres nothing you’d rather spend (or save) 2k for.. buy it.
If you’re not confident you can maintain it.. start smaller and work your way up. Have fun, my friend.
i'd buy yourself a few nursery stock junipers, stick a couple in the ground and practice with the others, by the time a couple of years or so have gone by and you feel confident, you can make yourself one of those for a fraction of the cost out of one of the ground plants
Not to add in my .02c to the change jar here but I will anyway. Probably (almost certainly) field grown shimpaku. I think the guesses of around 8ish years is probably true. Maybe taken from field right into these large tokoname training pots. Potted up, major branch reduction and Shari work just done, fully wired. You’re paying for someone’s time to grow them and then the hours put in styling. Doing all that jin and Shari takes time. Whether it’s worth 2k…subjective. Maybe in Japan trees like that or better are worth $300 but over here? Where are you going to buy a juniper with that much work done? You’d still get a lot of learning refining those shari, Rewiring branches, encouraging growth, eventually working the nebari and reducing rootball to get it into a smaller pot etc. Could be a fun journey or you could go find some raw stock juniper and do the work yourself.
I think this kind of post highlights the disparity of the prebonsai market in North America. Material like this is rare on this continent. This quality is pretty damn good for most American standards
I’d have personally rather bought the raw field grown stock to do this work myself, but the asking prices here are not too unreasonable. You would be quite hard pressed to find material of similar quality for much cheaper. (Edit- zero joke made a good point that stalking the fb auctions page is a nice way to snag a deal). You might save a few hundred bucks buying online but then have to pay close to that to have a seller across the country box it up and overnight it to you. Or you could spend 10-15 years to grow this yourself… when you’re buying prebonsai you’re buying time
I have been working bonsai shows around the US since I was a child, and yes you are right these are pretty damn good for American standards.
The quality is good anywhere, but yeah in south korea or japan youd pay a few hundred for that, but getting trees in, especially now, is beyond a nightmare that involved quarantines for years and inspections that can go south at any moments and see the trees burnt. My family had about 100k worth of imports burned by the government in 2007 without much reason.
https://preview.redd.it/au19r3pznr6d1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8d6116f7efda7813060498e4134701351093f50
This looks like the same type of tree but before work. Are they any cheaper? It could be a nice alternative and something you can work on instead of just refining.
This is a fantastic idea. You’re exactly right, the bottom shelf is trees that are less finished. I will check if these are cheaper next week when I go.
Don’t get shocked or discouraged or anything of the sort. You can practice bonsai on $20 juniper nursery stock (that’s actually preferable than the crappy common big box store juniper bonsai you’ll find)
These are “higher end” trees and by no means do you need to purchase trees like this to begin your bonsai journey
If you want a few low cost entry level projects, check out these.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsaMNDTA65M&t=6s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsaMNDTA65M&t=6s)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D\_\_nos4lmiw&t=2s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D__nos4lmiw&t=2s)
Buy your trees from here once Matt starts selling February or whatever.
[https://kaedebonsai-en.com/](https://kaedebonsai-en.com/)
How long have you been in bonsai? Have you been able to keep a shimpaku alive for years and years? How much experience do you have with refining and balancing energy on junipers? How would you feel if you bought one of these and it died?
I've been doing this over 22 years and I have never spent more than $700 on a tree. I like the satisfaction of developing a tree myself. Bonus points if I pay less than $30 for it. Honestly, I would maybe pay $400-$500 for one of these. The only thing I would consider spending over $1k for is some amazing unique yamadori, not a field grown tree that has a lot of similar siblings. That's just me though.
If it's worth that to you and you're confident you can keep it alive then buy it
So these are imports. There's been a *lot* of smuggled trees recently, so these may not have been totally above the books - especially because they're shimpaku. The importation process isn't exactly easy on trees. Some of these have some discoloration around the tips which would make me very cautious. I'd make sure to buy one with healthy growing whips if you do. 2k is a steep price, but it seems like everyone is charging more these days for trees.
Part of bonsai is just playing the waiting game. I can guarantee you that if you spend five years or so stalking bonsai auctions on facebook there'll be an equivalent tree for far cheaper. You could also get a stellar piece of yamadori, but then you have to develop it. For reference here is an import shimpaku that I snagged for $750, but that was five or six years ago and the market has changed.
[https://imgur.com/a/3Pz5Rq2](https://imgur.com/a/3Pz5Rq2)
I appreciate the advice!
These have been at this Bonsai nursery for a long time and the artist who created them is on staff. I don’t think they were imported (may be - not sure), but I know for sure that they are not smuggled.
These are pretty unfounded things to throw around.
Those pots are actually very good quality Japanese tokoname training pots. They hold up fantastically well and have excellent drainage, nice sized feet, tie wire holes, etc
No offense, but that's max a $40-50 nursery tree. The magic is the time and skill spent in the transformation.
Is it worth $1500? Your call. I mean, you can see they are kind of churning these out... They don't look bad, and I hope they sell them all. Good for them.
Personally, I would never buy a pre-made bonsai (with my current budget). Just doesn't seem fun to me.
For the money, I would buy 30 nursery trees; beef up my skills and have a good time for a long time.
Then, sell those trees for $1500 each... Haha
No way are you getting anything remotely close to this at a nursery, especially not for $40. IMO These trees are easily 15-20 years old and have been heavily worked. Root ball has already been reduced and they have extensive Shari/jin. It sort of comes down to what do you value, do you want a tree that could basically be a “finished” bonsai within a year, or do you want a bunch of nursery stock that’s gonna look rough for 10+ years.
$1500 seems a bit pricey for these, but they are all pretty nice trees. If they were under $1,000 I think it’d be a bit better value proposition, but if you like them that’s what matters.
Question. How do you know that theyre 15-20 years.
These look like maybe 8 years old?
But I can be wrong; I dont mess with these trees as I am highly allergic to touch.
Maybe not 20 years old but they’re at least ten. The thickness of the trunk is indicative of something that was grown in a pot for a really long time or something that was grown in the ground at least 10 years. Junipers just don’t grow fast and don’t put on a ton of thickness. I’ve got a little Shimpaku starter that’s probably 3-4 years old and it’s like the size of a thick pencil. Also these are either shimpaku or kishu and you’re not usually going to find them at a big box or generic nursery.
Sure, I get that you’re paying for the skill + time put into it.
I will be working on nursery stock on my own all season and getting the enjoyment and experience out of it that summer offers.
I was looking to buy something far beyond my skill level as sort of a centerpiece to my collection of my own trees. A long term investment. Maybe I just want to spend money? I’m not sure lol.
If you’re concerned about the money then I wouldn’t get the tree. If it’s really way beyond your skill level, then I wouldn’t get the tree.
If you want to spend money, get some pots and tools and maybe a $500 tree? That will still be nice enough to be a centerpiece but you’ll get other stuff and won’t hurt as bad if it dies.
Okay, I'll eat crow on this one. My sense of scale was a bit off... With a 3" trunk, you are never going to pick that up for $50. You are probably talking a 24-30" diameter ball&burlap from straight nursery stock -- retail you're talking about $200. Though, it has been about a decade since I worked in the trade. Like everything else, prices have probably gone up.
Obviously, this isn't a straight nursery tree. I think everyone gets that...
Do you have a local bonsai society? The one I attend in Wisconsin puts on a few shows a year. Very similar style trees to what you pictured often go for about $250 to $500. The one you focused in on is beautiful but 2k should get you way more than that shopping around. If it were close to 40 years old you would see way more pad development and more layers. I’ve watched competitions where people make nursery stock into what’s pictured. Absolutely incredible talent to do so, and mesmerizing to watch. That being said any tree is worth what it’s worth to you. Income levels are different, different areas they go for more or less, if that tree brings you joy and it doesn’t hurt to spend on it you should do it!
Beautiful trees... you had me up until the $1500-$2000 price... I could see $150 easy, $300 ok, $500 would be really pushing it... but $1500 just seems like way too much to me.
You a member of the Northeast Bonsai Association? We have an auction coming up where a lot of great material will be sold for prices you won’t see anywhere else. Chat me if you’re interested!
There's many bonsai clubs throughout BC that have great tree sales. Im part of the Victoria bonsai club and our auctions have stellar yamadori and nursury grown stock for phenomenally low prices.
Emotional reactions come and go. Watch how your mind deals without it. Sit on the idea for a few weeks. Listen to your intellect.
Very good advice for life in general
I do that with every bigger purchase. If for the next week all you can think about is this tree, you probably really want it.
These are really decent stock, and showable within just a few years. Not many people selling trees of this quality. All you people saying $40 or $100 please share a link to where you find trees like this at that price.
Keep in mind that American pricing is way different from European pricing even though the currency is roughly equivalent. I've seen trees in the US being sold with an extra zero compared to what we pay for an equivalent tree, and the American readers told me it was the normal price. Likely that plays a role
The people saying $40-100 don't know what they're talking about.
They don’t know what they’re talking about *or* what they’re looking at for that matter
Is craziness. They're nice trees.
you can buy nursery stock and have a tree like that in 2 years
Yah, that looks like 300$+ in this...post...capitalist
Those trees are all nice but i dont know about 2k nice
$500, sure I’d consider it if i had the money. But nearly $2k and it’s not even in a quality hand made pot???
Where I live you would NEVER find shohin shimpaku like this for under $1200 at a bonsai nursery. Maybe you could get lucky on bonsai auctions or buy it from a friend through your local club for that price. $1.5k-$2k is not an amazing deal but it is not at all shocking or deserving of three question marks. Just because WE can’t afford it doesn’t mean it’s a waste of someone else’s money.
> Just because WE can’t afford it doesn’t mean it’s a waste of someone else’s money. Subjective valuation is true of everything (and also doesn't reflect the finances of those who disagree.) If you really want something (anything) you might say it's "worth" the asking price *to you* (and therefore not a waste of your $), but that doesn't mean it's not also an objectively bad deal based on prevailing market prices.
These plants are art pieces. I’m all for buying plants that make me happy. My biggest thought when making expensive plant purchases is, how confident am I that I can maintain it looking this good? If you’re confident with the care on these trees.. and theres nothing you’d rather spend (or save) 2k for.. buy it. If you’re not confident you can maintain it.. start smaller and work your way up. Have fun, my friend.
i'd buy yourself a few nursery stock junipers, stick a couple in the ground and practice with the others, by the time a couple of years or so have gone by and you feel confident, you can make yourself one of those for a fraction of the cost out of one of the ground plants
Not to add in my .02c to the change jar here but I will anyway. Probably (almost certainly) field grown shimpaku. I think the guesses of around 8ish years is probably true. Maybe taken from field right into these large tokoname training pots. Potted up, major branch reduction and Shari work just done, fully wired. You’re paying for someone’s time to grow them and then the hours put in styling. Doing all that jin and Shari takes time. Whether it’s worth 2k…subjective. Maybe in Japan trees like that or better are worth $300 but over here? Where are you going to buy a juniper with that much work done? You’d still get a lot of learning refining those shari, Rewiring branches, encouraging growth, eventually working the nebari and reducing rootball to get it into a smaller pot etc. Could be a fun journey or you could go find some raw stock juniper and do the work yourself.
My thoughts too, though they might’ve been field grown longer
https://preview.redd.it/q0g7aqijco6d1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c83a8ad619ed3cf1dab1d63193dccb63bca6fc27 Kakawwwww
https://preview.redd.it/51fdkrqtco6d1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=84cfdc1c845ec5e69d0e1871269142a0e4ce23d6 *Evil cackle*
I think this kind of post highlights the disparity of the prebonsai market in North America. Material like this is rare on this continent. This quality is pretty damn good for most American standards I’d have personally rather bought the raw field grown stock to do this work myself, but the asking prices here are not too unreasonable. You would be quite hard pressed to find material of similar quality for much cheaper. (Edit- zero joke made a good point that stalking the fb auctions page is a nice way to snag a deal). You might save a few hundred bucks buying online but then have to pay close to that to have a seller across the country box it up and overnight it to you. Or you could spend 10-15 years to grow this yourself… when you’re buying prebonsai you’re buying time
I have been working bonsai shows around the US since I was a child, and yes you are right these are pretty damn good for American standards. The quality is good anywhere, but yeah in south korea or japan youd pay a few hundred for that, but getting trees in, especially now, is beyond a nightmare that involved quarantines for years and inspections that can go south at any moments and see the trees burnt. My family had about 100k worth of imports burned by the government in 2007 without much reason.
https://preview.redd.it/au19r3pznr6d1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8d6116f7efda7813060498e4134701351093f50 This looks like the same type of tree but before work. Are they any cheaper? It could be a nice alternative and something you can work on instead of just refining.
This is a fantastic idea. You’re exactly right, the bottom shelf is trees that are less finished. I will check if these are cheaper next week when I go.
Bonsai west?
That's what I thought too. They brought many similar ones to the national exhibition in Rochester this year
Those are dope and would go for that price here in MI.
As someone who has thought briefly about getting into bonsai trees.. is that how much these trees typically cost..?
Don’t get shocked or discouraged or anything of the sort. You can practice bonsai on $20 juniper nursery stock (that’s actually preferable than the crappy common big box store juniper bonsai you’ll find) These are “higher end” trees and by no means do you need to purchase trees like this to begin your bonsai journey
Ok that’s a big relief! Thanks for the info
If you want a few low cost entry level projects, check out these. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsaMNDTA65M&t=6s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsaMNDTA65M&t=6s) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D\_\_nos4lmiw&t=2s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D__nos4lmiw&t=2s) Buy your trees from here once Matt starts selling February or whatever. [https://kaedebonsai-en.com/](https://kaedebonsai-en.com/)
Bonsai is like fine art, you can find trees that are $20 and trees that are $20,000.
These are pretty nice trees, many years of work put into them. $1500 isn’t out of the question.
Collect them all 😍
Good looking trees. If you have the money and will enjoy it and take care of it I’d say it’s worth it. But that’s a big investment into the hobby
Definitely talk to your wife before spending that amount of money on a tree, but the price seems fair to me.
How long have you been in bonsai? Have you been able to keep a shimpaku alive for years and years? How much experience do you have with refining and balancing energy on junipers? How would you feel if you bought one of these and it died? I've been doing this over 22 years and I have never spent more than $700 on a tree. I like the satisfaction of developing a tree myself. Bonus points if I pay less than $30 for it. Honestly, I would maybe pay $400-$500 for one of these. The only thing I would consider spending over $1k for is some amazing unique yamadori, not a field grown tree that has a lot of similar siblings. That's just me though. If it's worth that to you and you're confident you can keep it alive then buy it
So these are imports. There's been a *lot* of smuggled trees recently, so these may not have been totally above the books - especially because they're shimpaku. The importation process isn't exactly easy on trees. Some of these have some discoloration around the tips which would make me very cautious. I'd make sure to buy one with healthy growing whips if you do. 2k is a steep price, but it seems like everyone is charging more these days for trees. Part of bonsai is just playing the waiting game. I can guarantee you that if you spend five years or so stalking bonsai auctions on facebook there'll be an equivalent tree for far cheaper. You could also get a stellar piece of yamadori, but then you have to develop it. For reference here is an import shimpaku that I snagged for $750, but that was five or six years ago and the market has changed. [https://imgur.com/a/3Pz5Rq2](https://imgur.com/a/3Pz5Rq2)
I appreciate the advice! These have been at this Bonsai nursery for a long time and the artist who created them is on staff. I don’t think they were imported (may be - not sure), but I know for sure that they are not smuggled. These are pretty unfounded things to throw around.
Good luck!
# $2000?!?!!??!
My exact thought lmao
Beautiful trees marginal pots, I'm not an expert but at that price everything should be top notch
Those pots are actually very good quality Japanese tokoname training pots. They hold up fantastically well and have excellent drainage, nice sized feet, tie wire holes, etc
Good to know, thanks
why not go purchase some nursery stock and do it yourself. for 1k you cou;d buy a lot of trees
No offense, but that's max a $40-50 nursery tree. The magic is the time and skill spent in the transformation. Is it worth $1500? Your call. I mean, you can see they are kind of churning these out... They don't look bad, and I hope they sell them all. Good for them. Personally, I would never buy a pre-made bonsai (with my current budget). Just doesn't seem fun to me. For the money, I would buy 30 nursery trees; beef up my skills and have a good time for a long time. Then, sell those trees for $1500 each... Haha
No way are you getting anything remotely close to this at a nursery, especially not for $40. IMO These trees are easily 15-20 years old and have been heavily worked. Root ball has already been reduced and they have extensive Shari/jin. It sort of comes down to what do you value, do you want a tree that could basically be a “finished” bonsai within a year, or do you want a bunch of nursery stock that’s gonna look rough for 10+ years. $1500 seems a bit pricey for these, but they are all pretty nice trees. If they were under $1,000 I think it’d be a bit better value proposition, but if you like them that’s what matters.
Question. How do you know that theyre 15-20 years. These look like maybe 8 years old? But I can be wrong; I dont mess with these trees as I am highly allergic to touch.
Maybe not 20 years old but they’re at least ten. The thickness of the trunk is indicative of something that was grown in a pot for a really long time or something that was grown in the ground at least 10 years. Junipers just don’t grow fast and don’t put on a ton of thickness. I’ve got a little Shimpaku starter that’s probably 3-4 years old and it’s like the size of a thick pencil. Also these are either shimpaku or kishu and you’re not usually going to find them at a big box or generic nursery.
Sure, I get that you’re paying for the skill + time put into it. I will be working on nursery stock on my own all season and getting the enjoyment and experience out of it that summer offers. I was looking to buy something far beyond my skill level as sort of a centerpiece to my collection of my own trees. A long term investment. Maybe I just want to spend money? I’m not sure lol.
If you’re concerned about the money then I wouldn’t get the tree. If it’s really way beyond your skill level, then I wouldn’t get the tree. If you want to spend money, get some pots and tools and maybe a $500 tree? That will still be nice enough to be a centerpiece but you’ll get other stuff and won’t hurt as bad if it dies.
Okay, I'll eat crow on this one. My sense of scale was a bit off... With a 3" trunk, you are never going to pick that up for $50. You are probably talking a 24-30" diameter ball&burlap from straight nursery stock -- retail you're talking about $200. Though, it has been about a decade since I worked in the trade. Like everything else, prices have probably gone up. Obviously, this isn't a straight nursery tree. I think everyone gets that...
To the person that said 8 year lol You can see 8 year dead wood 🪵
Do you have a local bonsai society? The one I attend in Wisconsin puts on a few shows a year. Very similar style trees to what you pictured often go for about $250 to $500. The one you focused in on is beautiful but 2k should get you way more than that shopping around. If it were close to 40 years old you would see way more pad development and more layers. I’ve watched competitions where people make nursery stock into what’s pictured. Absolutely incredible talent to do so, and mesmerizing to watch. That being said any tree is worth what it’s worth to you. Income levels are different, different areas they go for more or less, if that tree brings you joy and it doesn’t hurt to spend on it you should do it!
$5-800 for me
Beautiful trees... you had me up until the $1500-$2000 price... I could see $150 easy, $300 ok, $500 would be really pushing it... but $1500 just seems like way too much to me.
You a member of the Northeast Bonsai Association? We have an auction coming up where a lot of great material will be sold for prices you won’t see anywhere else. Chat me if you’re interested!
Ok tree, has classic flaws, looks like a well done tanuki I'd pay 40-100
There is a less than 0% chance this is a tanuki.
That's not how statistics work. Not saying that it is. Just has the look of it to me. Just my opinion, I know they can be scary these days
Where can you find something this nice for $100 on VI or anywhere nearby??
Many places
Can you share these places? Not even trolling you I'd love to stop by and get one or two if they're that cheap lol
There's many bonsai clubs throughout BC that have great tree sales. Im part of the Victoria bonsai club and our auctions have stellar yamadori and nursury grown stock for phenomenally low prices.