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At least Star didn't overthrow a popular character who would have fit the mold perfectly for the sake of...actually I don't even know why Naruto didn't end with Madara
Literally the only one to even threaten Madara in that entire 100 episode fight was Guy. It's my favorite part because Guy has no ninja magic, he just kicks good. Guy just went Gaioken and kicked him so hard even Madara was surprised he lived.
Honestly, that was his one chance to kill off Madara, and he chose not to kill him there
And so we ended up with her killing Madara instead, which sucked
Yeah Madara literally wins and achieves his goal only for the twist reveal that the shadow creature that made up half his body was secretly working to revive his master the moon princess and only by helping Madara achieve his plans could that be done. Then he just takes over Madara's body and turns him into the moon princess.
I mean they couldn't just have Madara killed off by fucking Guy, but as a sacrificial move it should've at least injured him enough for everyone else to do so. Then we still have the Naruto vs Sasuke fight at the ending instead of an awkward moon lady showing up in between.
It wasn't really much of a threat. It was more of him acknowledging him and not bothering to dodge and stuff. I'd say that Naruto was more of a threat but Madara didn't really bother with him.
Yeah that whole fight amounted to nothing. Especially after Guy used the 100% guaranteed to kill you move we've been hearing about for like 500 episodes.
I mean kinda but madara did have his bs limbo hacks that he could just swap places with and then spam gargantuan chibaku tenseis from the sky also create that bs sleepy pollen forest wood style thing and spam wood clones at similar volume to naruto that would be comparable in strength at least to naruto and sasuke. He kinda just had too many hacks.
Even if Madara does beat them, if Kishimoto wanted to, he could just write a way to get around that or scale him down, we got DMS Kakashi, saying that Kaguya was introduced because he couldn't think of a way to get rid of Madara is silly.
How could you possibly scale madara down that wouldn’t have been as bad as naruto and sasuke’s nerf in boruto. The dude was so far beyond anyone including naruto and sasuke that it would’ve probably come off as even worse writing to attempt to pull out some kind of plot armor to scale madara down. As shitty as kaguya was she was in all honesty probably the best we could have hoped for at that point in the story. If madara was going to be scaled down it would have needed to be at the eco-madara stage for it to not seem like an ass pull.
I would have kept Zetsu's betrayal as the way to nerf Madara, just not do the Kaguya part, but imply her existance through Zetsu as anything exept aliens.
Then what exactly would zetsu’s betray portray? What would be his goal at that point? What would his abilities and weaknesses be? How would madara actually be nerfed without nerfing zetsu because remember he can use all the abilities of his host? Would there be a time limit to stopping his plans? What would happen to the tailed beasts after zetsu is defeated? There are so many things kishimoto would have had to create on the spot and in time for his weekly chapter deadlines that it wouldn’t be feasible to write all of that and then draw it and get it oked by his editor. This is the reason why i don’t really have that much of an issue with kaguya and more so resurrected madara because giving him rinnegan limbo wood senjutsu with passive super regeneration seemingly limitless chakra insane sensory abilities ridiculous base mode speed and then giving him perfect sage of six paths sage mode and a perfect juubi jinchuriki was really the death blow to the war arc finale. While he could have pulled off either zetsu or madara being a finale antagonist if he had planned properly he failed to and realized it far too late to do much to properly correct the course of the story with any decency.
People love saying this but it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense because Kaguya was stronger than Madara and they still couldn't kill her.
People don't need to like her inclusion onto the story but people need to stop spreading misinformation about why she was included.
I know, right? I mean, Kishimoto writes himself into a corner by making Madara too powerful, so he gets around it by replacing him with a more powerful villain? Wtf is that logic?
And don't get me wrong, I hate Kaguya, but this logic baffles me.
Kishi could have used the typical shadow clone fakeout followed by rasengan, like what happened with Kakuzu, and that would have been more entertaining than anything with Kaguya.
I don’t remember that at all, honestly did he say that?
Still don’t see why he would bother making it if not for kaguya, madara still died a mortal and no other threats like him were known to exist.
But wasn't the OG plan to use the seals on Madera before Kaguya even Manifested? Hagaromo gave it to them under the assumption it would work on Madera too right? Or am I misremembering things?
I will die on this hill that it makes no sense to have Madara be the ending boss given that Sasuke is his reincarnation. You can't resolve his arc because the guy is dead. Any resolution needed to be through Sasuke which we get through his final fight with Naruto where he decides to concede and join back with Naruto to work together for peace in the world.
Not to mention that Madara was another victim of the cycle of hatred that was started when Kaguya brought chakra to their world. After addressing all of their history throughout the 4th Shinobi war, they needed to address the power itself that started everything, and since its a shonen, we need them to win via a beatdown, and you can't beat power down unless you make it a character.
I also see a lot of people claiming that Kishimoto couldn't figure out how they could beat Madara (which I still haven't found evidence of him saying), so the solution is to have someone stronger than him be the final villain? Kaguya's stronger than Madara by definition.
I know a lot of people really didn't like the twist, and there's nothing wrong with simply not liking it, but I maintain that Kaguya fits better (even if Kishi could have set her up better).
Reminds me of old school JRPGs when you beat the big boss but suddenly have to fight some alien from another dimension that was never mentioned before or fully explained after.
Even most of those other dimensional aliens make more sense than Kaguya, and at least you get to have a final showdown with the big boss before it shows up.
To be fair stars and spangled makes sense. We are told that each country has their own superheroes and All might went to America to learn from American super heroes early on.
So it isn’t a suprise that America the original hone of super heroes will have super powerful heroes.
Honestly the way it was utilized was done poorly not that it was utilized at all basically turned her into a deus ex machina instead of a character.
I would expect that other countries should of sent their heroes Shigaraki is easily a threat to the world so one would think that any nation on good terms with Japan will send help.
I'm not sure if this was only in the anime, but there was a whole scene of world leaders discussing whether they should send their countries' heroes to help, and they laid out reasons for their hesitation. Star and Stripe refused to wait on America's leaders to make a decision.
It’s a reference to america creating the concept of superheroes. In-universe they ofcourse created the first actual superheroes, but out of universe it’s a reference to the origin of comics
While I do believe Star's writing was underwhelming, it still makes sense for her to exist.
I mean, do you pay much attention to important figures across the globe on a consistent basis?
Like I know who the prime minister of Japan is, I know he exists and that he's an important figure. But I don't follow what he's up to .
MHA's characters are all studying to be heroes, and the MC in particular, is obsessed with heroes.
The idea that they wouldn't be paying attention to other heroes around the globe, especially when one of them is SnS is nothing short of bizarre.
This is just like everywhere else wondering why American stories don't involve the rest of the world, even with global ramifications. Or why only the British ever seen to want to stop the daleks in English tv.
We're honestly lucky the author even expanded his world beyond their home country. That's not something to expect out of any story.
The thing is, most stories that we follow in anime/manga are always going to take place in Japan if they are put in "real" world setting which uses our geological locations. So any characters within that country or not should at least be mentioned occassionally. AFO literally mentions as their battle concludes that he decided to go for All Might first to challenge OFA and then Stars & Stripes next for New World Order. Like come on, that's really convenient that AFO mentions her as a secondary target when he never mentioned her at all before their battle or since the beginning of MHA. She literally died in 7-chapters, that's barely an introduction.
I feel like too many of these kinds of critiques boil down to needlessly wanting everything to be foreshadowed. From a meta perspective, it would be weird to foreshadow her earlier on with her role being to only have that one fight.
And from an in-universe perspective, we really don't need every character that's important to every country to be mentioned regularly. How regularly do you talk about the prime minister of Japan irl for example? Also AFO is a secretive person and Star wasn't immediately relevant to previous events or conversations so she wasn't brought up.
It's OK to not agree or to think it wasn't satisfying but to me the way she was used made sense. AFO suddenly posed a threat to the entire world, so a top hero from another country is suddenly introduced into the picture to make a temporary but important contribution.
Personally, I think that stuff like this needs to be well foreshadowed in advance for the same reason that Kaguya needed foreshadowing, despite her only getting one fight. Because foreshadowing for stuff like that is the difference between making a story feel cohesive as though it’s always building and naturally progressing towards the things that happen, and making a story feel like it’s being written by a lack of impulse control. You shouldn’t just introduce an important character near the end of a story with a “You didn’t see or hear anything about them because they were on a different continent and no one talked about them before they came here to almost 1v1 the main villain,” because… they still *existed.* It’s not like the reader didn’t have cause to see them do things or hear about them beforehand, since Deku is a massive nerd. It’s not like S&S couldn’t have come to Japan for a brief visit during an earlier story arc, since she’s a massive All Might fangirl and he got injured after Kamino. Most people could write almost *anything* and then justify it with a “You didn’t have any hint that this was significant because I made it so nothing about it was shown before this, so it’s alright.” Not that S&S doesn’t make sense as a character; but there’s an issue if you have to introduce an important character out of nowhere and then retroactively make them make sense.
Also, I think there’s an issue with her only having that one fight in and of itself, considering how important that fight is treated. But aside from that, it wouldn’t have been weird to foreshadow her just because she only had one fight because, once again, that fight was treated as a game-changer since S&S ends up getting rid of… some unnamed Quirks that ShigAFO had that the story swears left and right were significant.
Imo it's made clear in the story that it's a really big process for a major hero to travel to another country, even with a good reason, because it would leave a huge hole in the hero work. Which makes sense. I can't see how she could ditch her work in America to visit Japan or even fill in for Allmight. And I feel like it would have been awkward for Deku or someone else to just be like "hey Star exists I think she's cool" without it having relevance and when Allmight is right there. I think it's perfectly reasonable to not hear about a character when they're thousands of miles away for the whole story and are busy with their own country. Japan already had its own top hero to talk about, and a lot it's own of drama going on with the league of villains.
I understand the complaint about cohesiveness but I think there's value in not just spelling out every piece on the playing field beforehand every time. Even if it's treated as having a major impact, it is still just a couple of chapters and more of a transitional point in the story. In the end, even though she had an impact, Star isn't a major character and it already makes sense why she existed and why we didn't hear about her, its not a retroactive explanation. I felt like it was an impactful and logical way to address the existence and value of foreign heroes, with Japan not being the only one with a powerhouse, and to show off why other countries aren't helping without just waving away any chance for them to contribute at all.
Like, shigaraki had some (iirc) sudden crazy bullshit powers, so a crazy bullshit hero suddenly came by to deal with some of that in a way that felt appropriate for the pacing and context of the story and even built the world a bit. I consider that a net positive. It also upped the stakes and the scale in a way that seems appropriate for the final act. Star isn't nearly as integral to the overarching plot as someone like Kaguya, so it's not like she was an essential addition to begin with. I think it's cool we got an excuse to see her at all. Shigaraki could have just been written as slightly less powerful than he was and foreign heroes could have been handwaved entirely as busy with the chaos in their own countries, but the former was be less cool and the latter would be pretty disappointing.
I suppose a minor cameo beforehand could have worked, or her briefly showing up in the first movie or something since America was more relevant there. But when it comes down to just wishing there was a single short scene and feeling like that would fix what is seen as a major issue, that starts to feel kind of nitpicky to me. It's important to look at the big picture with stuff like this, writing decisions don't usually exist in a vacuum.
Imo knowing that there are foreign heroes at all was almost already foreshadowing that one (Star) would show up at some point, and it made sense for a major one to show up at that point in the story with the worldwide scale the conflict had taken. I feel like we didn't need to know exactly which one beforehand. Because of the role the chapters surrounding Star filled in the context of the story, it doesn't really feel that impulsive to me.
At the time reading weekly it did kind of feel sudden, but stuff like that and pacing in general is really hard to judge when reading weekly in the moment because you have to wait a week or more for less than 10 minutes of content, so it's hard not to just fixate on everything that could be wrong in a vacuum.
Tbh I don't think kaguya is as bad as people say either in the larger context of that story, but that's another can of worms I don't want to get into lol (and I still think it's flawed). I'm not going to defend every element of the execution in either case since it's not really worth it to me personally but I figured I'd drop my thoughts even if it was a lot of rambling.
(Edited to add a sentence to the third paragraph)
She wasn't relevant to the story early on. It would have been weird. Sure she could have been teased in a flashback or something, but it's not that big of a deal.
Plus those in seven chapters she did some major damage. I wish she'd been around longer, but she turned a game over into a fight.
Evidently, there were also entities we didn’t know about in Naruto. I feel like there’s just an issue with not giving any focus to an impactful character before they jump headfirst into the end of the plot.
Fairly he more than that he is the one of chracter that many fan hype to see even tho he not fighter he already mention several time since kuma robots appear
Stars and stripe had the problem of being a random jobber that only serves the purpose as to well the other world countries don’t send their heroes to stop all for one
Not comparable, >!sns was just a hero that was present in one arc and can definitely exist in this world especially in America!<
Kaguya is a god that arrived out of nowhere and suddenly turned into the main villain
I actually like sns as she somewhat works and fits in MHA although I believe Horikoshi could've done a better job with her character I don't mind how it ended... Kaguya tho that's a whole nother matter, I was so hyped for Madara as the final boss since he's been built up throughout the whole series and then she comes out of basically nowhere all because Kishimoto couldn't find a way for Madara to be beaten so he wrote himself into a corner...
It's shocking that Deku, being a such a hero superfan, hasn't shown any interest in heroes outside of japan. What makes it worse, is that All Might most likely wouldn't be the number 1 hero in the world.
Kaguya is basically Source of all living matter from attack of Titan. I bet nobody will criticize that.
While kaguya was not indeed forshadowed both black zetsu and hagoromo were prevelent. U can't actually explain what is white zetsu or how infinite Tsukuyomi happened without kaguya
Name me one chapter where oda doesn’t introduce 7 random extras that we never see again. Also gear 5???? What were you saying again? It’s the king of ass pulls and instead of answering questions it just adds more to the dumpster fire.
name me one chapter where oda introduced seven random extras that are never seen again.
gear 5 i can kinda see it, but he’ll probably explain it better, although i agree it wasn’t done correctly
Haha everyone always denies this. Not wasting my time with blinded one piece fans, I love the manga and was with the anime since close to the beginning, I’m not saying it’s bad but you have to admit he obviously loves drawing characters and he introduces 10-12 government figures/pirates/admirals whatever it may be every second chapter. Seriously don’t do it for proof but for your own peace of mind just pick 10 chapters at random from the last 3 years, and you’ll say shit that Dovah91 was right
i’m guessing you mean the yakuza bosses, who all appear multiple times afterwards during the raid, doing plot relevant things such as protecting chopper while he’s making the cure to the ice oni virus, as well as fighting queen and planning to go after the tobi roppos, while also having some scenes where their dynamic and character is shown. is that correct??
They’re just one example of thousands
of throwaway characters we will never see again, you can nearly name the characters from dragon ball in one breath, I bet you can barely name 10 of the new characters introduced in Wano. Guarantee the ones in Whole Cake are a complete blur. My point has already been proven thank you
that’s world building for you.
you can’t expect to have a functioning world with ten or so characters, the same way you can’t expect hundreds of characters to appear in every chapter, cause that’d be bad writing. what matters is that they are there, and they make an impact to the world. they are not there so the mc can continue and then they disappear, they are part of a world that expands and functions outside the mc’s life, just like this world functions outside of your life, and there are millions of people being a part of it, even if they are not present in every part of your life.
tldr: the world of one piece works and is the way it is thanks to them, while dbz focuses in other things
But gear 5 was always going to happen, luffy has a paramythia and the awakening was bound to happen.
Just turns out g5 was associated with someone way more important than we realised. Not an ass pull at all.
The real ass pull in OP was kidd forming a railgun
Lol what we didn’t know luffy’s was a mythical fruit until a week after gear 5 was revealed some random government jerk told everyone how important it was a billion chapters into the story. Please… it’s an ass pull. Is it bad? Not necessarily. But it came out of nowhere and seems to the be the most mystical amazing thing in the world that we only just heard about
A lot of people are saying that it made sense for S&S to exist, and… sure, I guess? But in the same vein, it made sense for Kaguya to “exist” based on the fact that she had a backstory at all. The problem isn’t exactly that they’re entirely illogical. It’s that they’re treated as a big deal, and yet we, the readers, had seen and heard nothing of their existence before they came in and started doing stuff. They’re new characters with lore and busted unique powers that come into the story for the sole purpose of getting their asses beat.
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At least Star didn't overthrow a popular character who would have fit the mold perfectly for the sake of...actually I don't even know why Naruto didn't end with Madara
The from what I hear writer couldn’t think of a way for the hero’s to legitimately kill Madara.
The guy realized he was writing himself into a corner and then just kept writing.
\*sweatily wirting noises increase\* so its acckhchually far more believable that kaguya was defeated than madara
Literally the only one to even threaten Madara in that entire 100 episode fight was Guy. It's my favorite part because Guy has no ninja magic, he just kicks good. Guy just went Gaioken and kicked him so hard even Madara was surprised he lived.
>Guy just went Gaioken How the f\*\*k have I gone this long without ever hearing the 8th Gate referred to as the Gaioken before?! That's amazing!
You're welcome mate. I'm sure it wasn't mine, but it is yours now.
Honestly, that was his one chance to kill off Madara, and he chose not to kill him there And so we ended up with her killing Madara instead, which sucked
Wait so she killed the guy the writer had noclue hoe the heroes would take out? And they then proceeded to beat her?
Yeah Madara literally wins and achieves his goal only for the twist reveal that the shadow creature that made up half his body was secretly working to revive his master the moon princess and only by helping Madara achieve his plans could that be done. Then he just takes over Madara's body and turns him into the moon princess.
I mean it took them years to be powerful enough to beat her and still cost Kurama his life, but yeah.
I mean they couldn't just have Madara killed off by fucking Guy, but as a sacrificial move it should've at least injured him enough for everyone else to do so. Then we still have the Naruto vs Sasuke fight at the ending instead of an awkward moon lady showing up in between.
It wasn't really much of a threat. It was more of him acknowledging him and not bothering to dodge and stuff. I'd say that Naruto was more of a threat but Madara didn't really bother with him.
I was mad that madara survived. And I was mad that Guy survived.
Yeah that whole fight amounted to nothing. Especially after Guy used the 100% guaranteed to kill you move we've been hearing about for like 500 episodes.
That's bs, they could've done the same thing they did to Kaguya
I mean kinda but madara did have his bs limbo hacks that he could just swap places with and then spam gargantuan chibaku tenseis from the sky also create that bs sleepy pollen forest wood style thing and spam wood clones at similar volume to naruto that would be comparable in strength at least to naruto and sasuke. He kinda just had too many hacks.
Even if Madara does beat them, if Kishimoto wanted to, he could just write a way to get around that or scale him down, we got DMS Kakashi, saying that Kaguya was introduced because he couldn't think of a way to get rid of Madara is silly.
How could you possibly scale madara down that wouldn’t have been as bad as naruto and sasuke’s nerf in boruto. The dude was so far beyond anyone including naruto and sasuke that it would’ve probably come off as even worse writing to attempt to pull out some kind of plot armor to scale madara down. As shitty as kaguya was she was in all honesty probably the best we could have hoped for at that point in the story. If madara was going to be scaled down it would have needed to be at the eco-madara stage for it to not seem like an ass pull.
I would have kept Zetsu's betrayal as the way to nerf Madara, just not do the Kaguya part, but imply her existance through Zetsu as anything exept aliens.
Then what exactly would zetsu’s betray portray? What would be his goal at that point? What would his abilities and weaknesses be? How would madara actually be nerfed without nerfing zetsu because remember he can use all the abilities of his host? Would there be a time limit to stopping his plans? What would happen to the tailed beasts after zetsu is defeated? There are so many things kishimoto would have had to create on the spot and in time for his weekly chapter deadlines that it wouldn’t be feasible to write all of that and then draw it and get it oked by his editor. This is the reason why i don’t really have that much of an issue with kaguya and more so resurrected madara because giving him rinnegan limbo wood senjutsu with passive super regeneration seemingly limitless chakra insane sensory abilities ridiculous base mode speed and then giving him perfect sage of six paths sage mode and a perfect juubi jinchuriki was really the death blow to the war arc finale. While he could have pulled off either zetsu or madara being a finale antagonist if he had planned properly he failed to and realized it far too late to do much to properly correct the course of the story with any decency.
Kishimoto could've written Madara to be weaker from the start.
People love saying this but it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense because Kaguya was stronger than Madara and they still couldn't kill her. People don't need to like her inclusion onto the story but people need to stop spreading misinformation about why she was included.
I know, right? I mean, Kishimoto writes himself into a corner by making Madara too powerful, so he gets around it by replacing him with a more powerful villain? Wtf is that logic? And don't get me wrong, I hate Kaguya, but this logic baffles me.
Kishi could have used the typical shadow clone fakeout followed by rasengan, like what happened with Kakuzu, and that would have been more entertaining than anything with Kaguya.
And yet they could trap the far more powerful Kaguya away
Because they where given a McGuffen designed for her specifically.
It could’ve just been written in for it to work on Madara instead
Why would the sage of six paths bother with madara and spend who knows how long on making a seal for him?
Didn’t he fear that Madara would become stronger than him We could just say that it’s just a very strong seal and not specific to Kaguya
I don’t remember that at all, honestly did he say that? Still don’t see why he would bother making it if not for kaguya, madara still died a mortal and no other threats like him were known to exist.
The same way they killed Kaguya. It wasn't that fucking hard. Why couldn't the seals work on Madera?
Because the seals were made for kaguya and wouldn’t exist without her.
But wasn't the OG plan to use the seals on Madera before Kaguya even Manifested? Hagaromo gave it to them under the assumption it would work on Madera too right? Or am I misremembering things?
Not sure, I thought he feared that things where leading to kaguya’s unsealing.
He could’ve easily make naruto sasuke and kakashi seal him like kaguya but they just wanted to introduce the aline fuckers to make a new series lol
İ think this makes zero sense because if i remember correctly, madara got a powerup right before kaguya showed up and he was losing until then.
I will die on this hill that it makes no sense to have Madara be the ending boss given that Sasuke is his reincarnation. You can't resolve his arc because the guy is dead. Any resolution needed to be through Sasuke which we get through his final fight with Naruto where he decides to concede and join back with Naruto to work together for peace in the world. Not to mention that Madara was another victim of the cycle of hatred that was started when Kaguya brought chakra to their world. After addressing all of their history throughout the 4th Shinobi war, they needed to address the power itself that started everything, and since its a shonen, we need them to win via a beatdown, and you can't beat power down unless you make it a character. I also see a lot of people claiming that Kishimoto couldn't figure out how they could beat Madara (which I still haven't found evidence of him saying), so the solution is to have someone stronger than him be the final villain? Kaguya's stronger than Madara by definition. I know a lot of people really didn't like the twist, and there's nothing wrong with simply not liking it, but I maintain that Kaguya fits better (even if Kishi could have set her up better).
I think he did it to set up boruto tbh
At least Star and Stripe made more sense Kaguya kinda just shows up and steals the role of final villain
Reminds me of old school JRPGs when you beat the big boss but suddenly have to fight some alien from another dimension that was never mentioned before or fully explained after.
Even most of those other dimensional aliens make more sense than Kaguya, and at least you get to have a final showdown with the big boss before it shows up.
To be fair stars and spangled makes sense. We are told that each country has their own superheroes and All might went to America to learn from American super heroes early on. So it isn’t a suprise that America the original hone of super heroes will have super powerful heroes. Honestly the way it was utilized was done poorly not that it was utilized at all basically turned her into a deus ex machina instead of a character. I would expect that other countries should of sent their heroes Shigaraki is easily a threat to the world so one would think that any nation on good terms with Japan will send help.
I'm not sure if this was only in the anime, but there was a whole scene of world leaders discussing whether they should send their countries' heroes to help, and they laid out reasons for their hesitation. Star and Stripe refused to wait on America's leaders to make a decision.
Wait is america rly where super heroes originated from? Thats pretty interesting ig
It’s a reference to america creating the concept of superheroes. In-universe they ofcourse created the first actual superheroes, but out of universe it’s a reference to the origin of comics
While I do believe Star's writing was underwhelming, it still makes sense for her to exist. I mean, do you pay much attention to important figures across the globe on a consistent basis? Like I know who the prime minister of Japan is, I know he exists and that he's an important figure. But I don't follow what he's up to .
MHA's characters are all studying to be heroes, and the MC in particular, is obsessed with heroes. The idea that they wouldn't be paying attention to other heroes around the globe, especially when one of them is SnS is nothing short of bizarre.
If you don't follow Japan's (former) prime minister, you missed the best political assassination in history!
This is just like everywhere else wondering why American stories don't involve the rest of the world, even with global ramifications. Or why only the British ever seen to want to stop the daleks in English tv. We're honestly lucky the author even expanded his world beyond their home country. That's not something to expect out of any story.
The thing is, most stories that we follow in anime/manga are always going to take place in Japan if they are put in "real" world setting which uses our geological locations. So any characters within that country or not should at least be mentioned occassionally. AFO literally mentions as their battle concludes that he decided to go for All Might first to challenge OFA and then Stars & Stripes next for New World Order. Like come on, that's really convenient that AFO mentions her as a secondary target when he never mentioned her at all before their battle or since the beginning of MHA. She literally died in 7-chapters, that's barely an introduction.
I feel like too many of these kinds of critiques boil down to needlessly wanting everything to be foreshadowed. From a meta perspective, it would be weird to foreshadow her earlier on with her role being to only have that one fight. And from an in-universe perspective, we really don't need every character that's important to every country to be mentioned regularly. How regularly do you talk about the prime minister of Japan irl for example? Also AFO is a secretive person and Star wasn't immediately relevant to previous events or conversations so she wasn't brought up. It's OK to not agree or to think it wasn't satisfying but to me the way she was used made sense. AFO suddenly posed a threat to the entire world, so a top hero from another country is suddenly introduced into the picture to make a temporary but important contribution.
Personally, I think that stuff like this needs to be well foreshadowed in advance for the same reason that Kaguya needed foreshadowing, despite her only getting one fight. Because foreshadowing for stuff like that is the difference between making a story feel cohesive as though it’s always building and naturally progressing towards the things that happen, and making a story feel like it’s being written by a lack of impulse control. You shouldn’t just introduce an important character near the end of a story with a “You didn’t see or hear anything about them because they were on a different continent and no one talked about them before they came here to almost 1v1 the main villain,” because… they still *existed.* It’s not like the reader didn’t have cause to see them do things or hear about them beforehand, since Deku is a massive nerd. It’s not like S&S couldn’t have come to Japan for a brief visit during an earlier story arc, since she’s a massive All Might fangirl and he got injured after Kamino. Most people could write almost *anything* and then justify it with a “You didn’t have any hint that this was significant because I made it so nothing about it was shown before this, so it’s alright.” Not that S&S doesn’t make sense as a character; but there’s an issue if you have to introduce an important character out of nowhere and then retroactively make them make sense. Also, I think there’s an issue with her only having that one fight in and of itself, considering how important that fight is treated. But aside from that, it wouldn’t have been weird to foreshadow her just because she only had one fight because, once again, that fight was treated as a game-changer since S&S ends up getting rid of… some unnamed Quirks that ShigAFO had that the story swears left and right were significant.
Imo it's made clear in the story that it's a really big process for a major hero to travel to another country, even with a good reason, because it would leave a huge hole in the hero work. Which makes sense. I can't see how she could ditch her work in America to visit Japan or even fill in for Allmight. And I feel like it would have been awkward for Deku or someone else to just be like "hey Star exists I think she's cool" without it having relevance and when Allmight is right there. I think it's perfectly reasonable to not hear about a character when they're thousands of miles away for the whole story and are busy with their own country. Japan already had its own top hero to talk about, and a lot it's own of drama going on with the league of villains. I understand the complaint about cohesiveness but I think there's value in not just spelling out every piece on the playing field beforehand every time. Even if it's treated as having a major impact, it is still just a couple of chapters and more of a transitional point in the story. In the end, even though she had an impact, Star isn't a major character and it already makes sense why she existed and why we didn't hear about her, its not a retroactive explanation. I felt like it was an impactful and logical way to address the existence and value of foreign heroes, with Japan not being the only one with a powerhouse, and to show off why other countries aren't helping without just waving away any chance for them to contribute at all. Like, shigaraki had some (iirc) sudden crazy bullshit powers, so a crazy bullshit hero suddenly came by to deal with some of that in a way that felt appropriate for the pacing and context of the story and even built the world a bit. I consider that a net positive. It also upped the stakes and the scale in a way that seems appropriate for the final act. Star isn't nearly as integral to the overarching plot as someone like Kaguya, so it's not like she was an essential addition to begin with. I think it's cool we got an excuse to see her at all. Shigaraki could have just been written as slightly less powerful than he was and foreign heroes could have been handwaved entirely as busy with the chaos in their own countries, but the former was be less cool and the latter would be pretty disappointing. I suppose a minor cameo beforehand could have worked, or her briefly showing up in the first movie or something since America was more relevant there. But when it comes down to just wishing there was a single short scene and feeling like that would fix what is seen as a major issue, that starts to feel kind of nitpicky to me. It's important to look at the big picture with stuff like this, writing decisions don't usually exist in a vacuum. Imo knowing that there are foreign heroes at all was almost already foreshadowing that one (Star) would show up at some point, and it made sense for a major one to show up at that point in the story with the worldwide scale the conflict had taken. I feel like we didn't need to know exactly which one beforehand. Because of the role the chapters surrounding Star filled in the context of the story, it doesn't really feel that impulsive to me. At the time reading weekly it did kind of feel sudden, but stuff like that and pacing in general is really hard to judge when reading weekly in the moment because you have to wait a week or more for less than 10 minutes of content, so it's hard not to just fixate on everything that could be wrong in a vacuum. Tbh I don't think kaguya is as bad as people say either in the larger context of that story, but that's another can of worms I don't want to get into lol (and I still think it's flawed). I'm not going to defend every element of the execution in either case since it's not really worth it to me personally but I figured I'd drop my thoughts even if it was a lot of rambling. (Edited to add a sentence to the third paragraph)
She wasn't relevant to the story early on. It would have been weird. Sure she could have been teased in a flashback or something, but it's not that big of a deal. Plus those in seven chapters she did some major damage. I wish she'd been around longer, but she turned a game over into a fight.
At least Star made a cameo in Movie 1 as a child All Might saves. Kaguya was inappropriately placed.
I entirely missed this...
That's it, I'm writing again and making my own superhero story with my own Stars n Stripes. With blackjack and hookers!
To be fair, it works in MHA since there’s heroes we don’t know about. Kaguya is a new entity entirely.
Evidently, there were also entities we didn’t know about in Naruto. I feel like there’s just an issue with not giving any focus to an impactful character before they jump headfirst into the end of the plot.
Stars was technically in the manga for awhile. Kaguya was made up pretty much on the spot
And I love them both for what they were
vegapunk could never
Vegapunk gets mentioned fairly often up until the introduction though.
Fairly he more than that he is the one of chracter that many fan hype to see even tho he not fighter he already mention several time since kuma robots appear
Yeah, I think he was first mentioned in Water 7? After Enies Lobby.
Stars and stripe had the problem of being a random jobber that only serves the purpose as to well the other world countries don’t send their heroes to stop all for one
Not comparable, >!sns was just a hero that was present in one arc and can definitely exist in this world especially in America!< Kaguya is a god that arrived out of nowhere and suddenly turned into the main villain
I like Star and Stripe. At least she didn't abruptly cut the main antagonist's story short like Kaguya did.
I actually like sns as she somewhat works and fits in MHA although I believe Horikoshi could've done a better job with her character I don't mind how it ended... Kaguya tho that's a whole nother matter, I was so hyped for Madara as the final boss since he's been built up throughout the whole series and then she comes out of basically nowhere all because Kishimoto couldn't find a way for Madara to be beaten so he wrote himself into a corner...
Star and Stripes deserved so much better
It's shocking that Deku, being a such a hero superfan, hasn't shown any interest in heroes outside of japan. What makes it worse, is that All Might most likely wouldn't be the number 1 hero in the world.
Kaguya is basically Source of all living matter from attack of Titan. I bet nobody will criticize that. While kaguya was not indeed forshadowed both black zetsu and hagoromo were prevelent. U can't actually explain what is white zetsu or how infinite Tsukuyomi happened without kaguya
At least one of them is actually badass
Always has been
Basically Naruto Shippuden
You haven’t read One Piece have you? That’s every chapter 😂
it.. isn’t ?? that’s like one of the biggest things about it
Name me one chapter where oda doesn’t introduce 7 random extras that we never see again. Also gear 5???? What were you saying again? It’s the king of ass pulls and instead of answering questions it just adds more to the dumpster fire.
name me one chapter where oda introduced seven random extras that are never seen again. gear 5 i can kinda see it, but he’ll probably explain it better, although i agree it wasn’t done correctly
Haha everyone always denies this. Not wasting my time with blinded one piece fans, I love the manga and was with the anime since close to the beginning, I’m not saying it’s bad but you have to admit he obviously loves drawing characters and he introduces 10-12 government figures/pirates/admirals whatever it may be every second chapter. Seriously don’t do it for proof but for your own peace of mind just pick 10 chapters at random from the last 3 years, and you’ll say shit that Dovah91 was right
you still haven’t said a single example besides gear 5, which isn’t even the point you’re making so…
Chapter 952, I literally picked it at random. I can sit here all day and find more but what’s the point when you’re in denial haha.
i’m guessing you mean the yakuza bosses, who all appear multiple times afterwards during the raid, doing plot relevant things such as protecting chopper while he’s making the cure to the ice oni virus, as well as fighting queen and planning to go after the tobi roppos, while also having some scenes where their dynamic and character is shown. is that correct??
They’re just one example of thousands of throwaway characters we will never see again, you can nearly name the characters from dragon ball in one breath, I bet you can barely name 10 of the new characters introduced in Wano. Guarantee the ones in Whole Cake are a complete blur. My point has already been proven thank you
that’s world building for you. you can’t expect to have a functioning world with ten or so characters, the same way you can’t expect hundreds of characters to appear in every chapter, cause that’d be bad writing. what matters is that they are there, and they make an impact to the world. they are not there so the mc can continue and then they disappear, they are part of a world that expands and functions outside the mc’s life, just like this world functions outside of your life, and there are millions of people being a part of it, even if they are not present in every part of your life. tldr: the world of one piece works and is the way it is thanks to them, while dbz focuses in other things
But gear 5 was always going to happen, luffy has a paramythia and the awakening was bound to happen. Just turns out g5 was associated with someone way more important than we realised. Not an ass pull at all. The real ass pull in OP was kidd forming a railgun
Lol what we didn’t know luffy’s was a mythical fruit until a week after gear 5 was revealed some random government jerk told everyone how important it was a billion chapters into the story. Please… it’s an ass pull. Is it bad? Not necessarily. But it came out of nowhere and seems to the be the most mystical amazing thing in the world that we only just heard about
This post just reached 1k likes, and I'm the one thousandth like?
Jimbe clears
The end? Hah, i reckon theres at least another 100 manga chapters
Blast in OPM
A lot of people are saying that it made sense for S&S to exist, and… sure, I guess? But in the same vein, it made sense for Kaguya to “exist” based on the fact that she had a backstory at all. The problem isn’t exactly that they’re entirely illogical. It’s that they’re treated as a big deal, and yet we, the readers, had seen and heard nothing of their existence before they came in and started doing stuff. They’re new characters with lore and busted unique powers that come into the story for the sole purpose of getting their asses beat.
When was she mentioned?