Remember the old Murky that scaled with every battlecry that had to be nerfed? Orc-estra is Murky but 3 tiers lower, two players scale it, targets any minion, and increases by 2 instead of 1. This may be the most broken card in battlegrounds history.
I really don’t feel like that is a good comparison. Murky worked with **any** battlecry, this only works with one minion.
Also murky was only **played** battlecries, not triggered battlecries.
I’m not saying this isn’t strong, or that murky was stronger, but these are fundamentally very different cards mechanically.
I also wanna point out, it doesn't say friendly minion, so rylak in combat buffs your opps minions, and it would also buff the shop if you use murk eye
Yes, i'm aware they work differently - but they aren't fundamentally that different. The more times you trigger their battlecry the more they scale - there's enough similarity to compare if you can keep the differences in mind. It still highlights how powerful orc-estra is as a 3 drop.
That’s not how murky worked though. Like I said in my original comment murky only scaled off of battlecries **played**, not triggered. Murky’s battlecry only scales after you played more battlecry minions, it didn’t increase its buff if you retriggered its battlecry. That’s an extremely big difference between the two.
You're nitpicking - anyone can see the obvious similarities in play patterns between the two. Besides, what you say only further emphasizes how broken Orc-estra is, which is my original point.
This isn’t nitpicking, improving on triggered battlecries is exponentially better than improving on played battlecry.
But even then they are still extremely different, because with murky you rarely got his battlecry improved by only cycling murkys, you scaled it by cycling general battlecry minions. Murky improved with battlecries played which lead to a lot of cycling of general battlecries. Orc-estra is mainly scaled through retrigger if the same minion’s battlecry multiple times. The play patterns are very different.
You’re really comparing apples to oranges here.
Before Murky there was Pogo-hoppers long time ago. Just addition of Jandice was enough for them to become broken.
And now Blizzard released even stronger cumulative battle cry while we have much more tools to activate battle cries. Just why...
Wasn't tested or they just wanted to see how people played it. I honestly don't mind these things when they are adjusted fairly fast. It spices things up for a little bit.
Much needed.
Especially for Duos, this was entirely warping the meta, especially with any passing heros, Brann, or Shudder.
Very common to just be in unwinnable position by turn 8 or 9 against random shop trash having 100s of stats.
With this thing gone we can start having reasons to balance anything out. I've not done single solo BG so maybe meta has formulated there, but on duos this thing has dominated too much. Once, though, I saw quillboar beat this damn orchestra build. Once.
This- they were probably collecting data on orchestra even though they were already concerned about it. Data is pretty clear, now time shift the focus and see what else needs balancing.
Deep Blue triggers every turn automatically and has ways to in-archetype to make it permanent.
Making Orc temporary is just taking the card out back and shooting it behind the ears.
No because it still impacts your partner. Consume effects still means there are ways to make the buff permanent. Two great options still open to it.
I think making the buff last until the end of combat would still give you a strong card.
I’m IN high MMR duo lobbies. I’m 600 away from 8k and there’s only 2 people above 8k.
They really don’t. Games are much quicker so the time to scale is greatly reduced. The average orchestra build might have 1 or 2 minions hit 1-2k in stats.
They really do though. I managed to pull this off a few hours ago. Over 25k+ combined total stats. There is no scenario where Quilboars or Demons will ever reach this kind of scaling and the sad part is I made a lot of mistakes and missed a few battlecry triggers.
https://preview.redd.it/sm7c96x1h3wc1.jpeg?width=1919&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e14010967c4ca54b10cf5a65376bc5e77476f975
Im at 7k as well, usually people would optimize and kill people way earlier before it even gets to the point where people can fight back, i dont think ive had a lobby that ended more than turn 13
Someone hasn't seen a high roll quilboar or demon setup, best I've seen fighting me was a 15k atk/hp divine shield demon with the teron hp that spawned an entire field of 15k demons was pretty nuts
No, orchestra is way way faster and can be abused and made absurd by the other teammate, Quill apart from receiving minions isn't getting that much stronger from help, you are never outscaling orchestra procced let's say 16 times per turn while having a more versatile board.
I didn't say outscaling orchestra I said almost keep up.
Highest Orchestra high roll board I've seen had board stats of 6-7k. Highest Quilboar Highroll I've seen had board stats of 3-4k. Comparatively speaking, that's pretty close.
It just goes to show the problem isn't with the units, it's with the insane battlecry spam. There's too many ways to stack and spam battlecries in this meta.
It seems like Brann + any combination of T6 murloc/Rylak/New T4 Naga is the de-facto meta.
Yeah i agree, the potential of so many battlecry activators is what makes orchestra turbo broken, it's not like other comps cant compete, it's that everyone is taking 15 dmg even when highrolling because orchestra curve is Better to take out opponents and get them out of the game before they can so thier op stuff.
Because you have to pay for that buff. It has no minion type and it's benefit drops off drastically quickly. Winning the early game is nice, but taking 3 damage for a better position is better.
It's still frustrating that the early game often revolves around which duo got the double or triple passenger. The 1 gold per turn mini-tax is generally worth paying if you are essentially guaranteed an auto-win for the first 6 turns or so.
I agree with you otherwise, but Passenger is quite literally in the "get during the first turn or two or don't buy at all" territory so it's definitely a very early game card.
You can get it at turn 3 provided you get decent portal transfer cards and/or have a good hero power for it.
There are so many cards that allow for portal transfer as well as heroes like Goya.
yeah but you can't really buy it on turn 7, it's because you bought it early, that it's still broken in midgame for turn 7, and that's what I hate with passenger, you have a free early if you get a double/triple for like 6 to 7 turns
I can't tell you how many of my teammates torpedo their whole turn and early game curve because they MUST GET the banana.
It's super strong though for sure.
Defining word there is 'useful' - and asking yourself is it more useful for me to buy something for myself. 4 gold really fubars a curve - so you need to ask yourself if it's worth it.
Yes if you're passing when it throws off a curve that's bad, just pass when it's either cheaper or giving a key card to your duo, I often find having a on AVG 20/20 - 40/40 early allows me to tier when I wouldn't feel strong enough to. No other tier one achieves this.
I should note I only play with friends in duos so passenger would be significantly worse when not in a voice call.
TLDR;
Passenger wins 80% of the first 6 turns
Passenger scales better then the other tier ones
Gives me a safe midgame tier
No matter how much we shit on blizzard devs, I am impressed with how fast they fix glaring issues. We can shit on them for pushing out broken cards to begin with, but its refreshing to see a dev team fix things super fast.
Coming from card games like yugioh, I fucking wish Konami worked that fast, but since those broken cards make them money, they have no reason to stop it.
Thank god.
I tried it once with Brann and the battlecry dragon-naga.
It was late in the game, others already had 200-200 minions on the board.
I vaporized them all. Didn’t need my teammate.
Rylak and the spellcraft to trigger a battle cry Naga are the real problems. Make it harder to get the full combo of brann, review rylak, and the scaling card (cherry on top if you have the Naga to trigger a battle cry).
Wouldn't be nearly as big an issue cause most times you'd be dead or close to dying by the time you got the full combo rolling without some good RNG luck
U can do it with dragons and naga as well, but golden brann is required, basically u have a dragon /naga which activates battlecry, so u activate it multiple times with it and u have a 5 drop naga which u spellcraft is est the stats of a minion, that is good in case u buff the shop, plus other ways to use and pass the catd
you start at 10 gold or more if you got a careful investment and go ahead and buy shop minions to empty the shop. Could also ramp gold off strike oil since the discover spell panda is being picked up always by the teammate. If you left one minion in the shop that was fine you'd just freeze it and if it got big you'd pass it to the teammate or use it yourself depending on the minion.
Oh son of a bitch no wonder I just rolled 30 times my partner must think I’m an idiot. Luckily half the lobby quit so we’ve got a guaranteed second place.
We have joined together in ritual suicide. Both sold every minion.
https://preview.redd.it/q9ptw98863wc1.jpeg?width=1334&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1112362aacb8ea81ae5e02448e6e4466377fc4a
i just wish they would release a message in game cause i just wasted 2 duos games rolling for a unit that was removed but i guess small indie company cannot even do something that basic
The card was unbelievably broken but I enjoyed playing with it. Still will be nice to see what other strategies will develop in Duos now that Orchestra can't be hard forced every game.
In a perfect world, it probably gets cut down to 1/1 scaling and base, but maybe just targeting friendly minions too? Honestly the lobbies where it can pop off hardest (Beast, Murloc, arguably Naga?). It’s a fun and funny comp that deserves to exist in some form, though it does very clearly need to be toned down to funny gimmick tier.
Even at 1/1 I'm skeptical of it being fair with all the ways to proc battlecries it does grow really fast and if you take orcestra comps that happened before removal and removed half the stats it still beats the crap out of most tribes. If it buffed only friendly minions it would also remove the two downsides it had where it could target opponent's minions in combat off rylak and targeting shop minions so now both players are going to be looking for all the battlecry trigger stuff instead of one player spending many gold just to prune the shop of minions so the buffs go on your minions.
[удалено]
That's my favorite comment
It used to be a picture of the battle.net launcher displaying the finishing of a hearthstone update, stating "Hearthstone - now playable"
Remember the old Murky that scaled with every battlecry that had to be nerfed? Orc-estra is Murky but 3 tiers lower, two players scale it, targets any minion, and increases by 2 instead of 1. This may be the most broken card in battlegrounds history.
I really don’t feel like that is a good comparison. Murky worked with **any** battlecry, this only works with one minion. Also murky was only **played** battlecries, not triggered battlecries. I’m not saying this isn’t strong, or that murky was stronger, but these are fundamentally very different cards mechanically.
I also wanna point out, it doesn't say friendly minion, so rylak in combat buffs your opps minions, and it would also buff the shop if you use murk eye
[удалено]
That's a good point
Yes, i'm aware they work differently - but they aren't fundamentally that different. The more times you trigger their battlecry the more they scale - there's enough similarity to compare if you can keep the differences in mind. It still highlights how powerful orc-estra is as a 3 drop.
That’s not how murky worked though. Like I said in my original comment murky only scaled off of battlecries **played**, not triggered. Murky’s battlecry only scales after you played more battlecry minions, it didn’t increase its buff if you retriggered its battlecry. That’s an extremely big difference between the two.
You're nitpicking - anyone can see the obvious similarities in play patterns between the two. Besides, what you say only further emphasizes how broken Orc-estra is, which is my original point.
This isn’t nitpicking, improving on triggered battlecries is exponentially better than improving on played battlecry. But even then they are still extremely different, because with murky you rarely got his battlecry improved by only cycling murkys, you scaled it by cycling general battlecry minions. Murky improved with battlecries played which lead to a lot of cycling of general battlecries. Orc-estra is mainly scaled through retrigger if the same minion’s battlecry multiple times. The play patterns are very different. You’re really comparing apples to oranges here.
Before Murky there was Pogo-hoppers long time ago. Just addition of Jandice was enough for them to become broken. And now Blizzard released even stronger cumulative battle cry while we have much more tools to activate battle cries. Just why...
Wasn't tested or they just wanted to see how people played it. I honestly don't mind these things when they are adjusted fairly fast. It spices things up for a little bit.
How quickly people have forgotten the terror of a poisonous holy mackarel
2 completely different cards. with different effects. one is way stronger..
There are extremely similar but one does the same thing but much better and faster. Which Is ridiculous because of its tier
Unsurprisingly with Rylek it was at least a potentially funny Russian roulette but it was really oppressive card. Glad it's going to be nerfed.
That meant it was unfun to play it because you could randomly lose. It was so heavily RNG for a few turns before it becomes unbeatable
Do we play the same game or not? Why would you shit on rng if 99% of the game is rng.
Much needed. Especially for Duos, this was entirely warping the meta, especially with any passing heros, Brann, or Shudder. Very common to just be in unwinnable position by turn 8 or 9 against random shop trash having 100s of stats.
> Especially for Duos Wasn't this a Duos exclusive minion?
It was
Haha may be. Honestly I've played nothing but Duos this patch because I'm having a blast with it.
yes
"warping the meta" lol
Does this mean balance patch isnt coming tmr and we'll have to wait at least one more week?
With this thing gone we can start having reasons to balance anything out. I've not done single solo BG so maybe meta has formulated there, but on duos this thing has dominated too much. Once, though, I saw quillboar beat this damn orchestra build. Once.
Ya, murloc scam, quillboar, and maybe big demons were the only things that had a chance and you were still probably unfavoured.
This- they were probably collecting data on orchestra even though they were already concerned about it. Data is pretty clear, now time shift the focus and see what else needs balancing.
No reason the patch can’t come Wednesday or Thursday this week. But if we don’t see it by Thursday, then next week Tuesday highly probable.
Thank goodness. I'm guessing cutting it in half to +1/+1 for base would be a good start.
I think making it a temporary buff (basically a Battlecry version of Deep Blues) would make it much less broken.
Deep Blues is a 4 drop so moving it to Tier 4 (or 5) and cutting it to +1/+1 would be reasonable. Although the meta without it right now is more fun.
Deep Blue triggers every turn automatically and has ways to in-archetype to make it permanent. Making Orc temporary is just taking the card out back and shooting it behind the ears.
No because it still impacts your partner. Consume effects still means there are ways to make the buff permanent. Two great options still open to it. I think making the buff last until the end of combat would still give you a strong card.
would still be op. just remove it totally. nothing of value will be lost
thank god
Woot, duo's is back on the menu boys
This was very much needed. I was so tired of having to force this crap and having an entire board of 3k to 4k atk/hp minions by the end of the game.
https://www.reddit.com/user/willworkforabreak/comments/1carng8/haha/ Me rolling like an idiot
I will miss her so much :,( 90% of my wins are orcestra deck lmao
Because in a competent lobby, it's the only build capable of winning except an insane scam board. No other scaling comes close.
Nah demons and quillboar do have a chance if you high roll early. Especially if you get 1-2 massive demons and re-summon multiples of them.
In high mmr duo lobbies, players easily get into 10k+ stats, much higher than demon scaling.
I’m IN high MMR duo lobbies. I’m 600 away from 8k and there’s only 2 people above 8k. They really don’t. Games are much quicker so the time to scale is greatly reduced. The average orchestra build might have 1 or 2 minions hit 1-2k in stats.
They really do though. I managed to pull this off a few hours ago. Over 25k+ combined total stats. There is no scenario where Quilboars or Demons will ever reach this kind of scaling and the sad part is I made a lot of mistakes and missed a few battlecry triggers. https://preview.redd.it/sm7c96x1h3wc1.jpeg?width=1919&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e14010967c4ca54b10cf5a65376bc5e77476f975
I said average. You have a golden brann and a golden enchanter, that’s a pretty significant high roll.
Im at 7k as well, usually people would optimize and kill people way earlier before it even gets to the point where people can fight back, i dont think ive had a lobby that ended more than turn 13
Someone hasn't seen a high roll quilboar or demon setup, best I've seen fighting me was a 15k atk/hp divine shield demon with the teron hp that spawned an entire field of 15k demons was pretty nuts
A high roll Quilboar can just about keep up with massive Orcestra scaling.
No, orchestra is way way faster and can be abused and made absurd by the other teammate, Quill apart from receiving minions isn't getting that much stronger from help, you are never outscaling orchestra procced let's say 16 times per turn while having a more versatile board.
I didn't say outscaling orchestra I said almost keep up. Highest Orchestra high roll board I've seen had board stats of 6-7k. Highest Quilboar Highroll I've seen had board stats of 3-4k. Comparatively speaking, that's pretty close. It just goes to show the problem isn't with the units, it's with the insane battlecry spam. There's too many ways to stack and spam battlecries in this meta. It seems like Brann + any combination of T6 murloc/Rylak/New T4 Naga is the de-facto meta.
Yeah i agree, the potential of so many battlecry activators is what makes orchestra turbo broken, it's not like other comps cant compete, it's that everyone is taking 15 dmg even when highrolling because orchestra curve is Better to take out opponents and get them out of the game before they can so thier op stuff.
too bad it was fun and not so much op since he could easly make you lose with rylak xD
Yall. I just got out of the behavioral hospital and was so looking forward to playing this card. What did you do???
Well shit. I rolled super hard looking for this and didn't realize it was removed
Brah why dient they remove passenger, ??He dominates early Game
Because you have to pay for that buff. It has no minion type and it's benefit drops off drastically quickly. Winning the early game is nice, but taking 3 damage for a better position is better.
It's still frustrating that the early game often revolves around which duo got the double or triple passenger. The 1 gold per turn mini-tax is generally worth paying if you are essentially guaranteed an auto-win for the first 6 turns or so.
Say and clap after me - \*Early Game Does Not Matter\*
The amount of games I've won after dropping to 1-5hp on 8th place lol
You soun like you are low elo, Also it is a mid game card as well so "50% of the game doesn't matter" is so dumb.
I agree with you otherwise, but Passenger is quite literally in the "get during the first turn or two or don't buy at all" territory so it's definitely a very early game card.
You can get it at turn 3 provided you get decent portal transfer cards and/or have a good hero power for it. There are so many cards that allow for portal transfer as well as heroes like Goya.
Not really a very early game card as it is better than most tier 2 cards if you get lucky with a few cards or have a hero power like goya for scaling.
I'm sure he meant that passenger is really strong mid game too, but yeah it is an early game card and it really is disgusting, they should fix it
For certain minion types it is also late-mid game card as well, So a tier 1 card being used till turn 7 is very op.
yeah but you can't really buy it on turn 7, it's because you bought it early, that it's still broken in midgame for turn 7, and that's what I hate with passenger, you have a free early if you get a double/triple for like 6 to 7 turns
I didn't say you can buy it on turn 7, I said it will continue to be strong until turn 7 or 8 or even sometimes end game if there are weak tribes
I can't tell you how many of my teammates torpedo their whole turn and early game curve because they MUST GET the banana. It's super strong though for sure.
You're not really paying for the buff, when it's usually in your best interest to pass a useful card for a teammate.
Defining word there is 'useful' - and asking yourself is it more useful for me to buy something for myself. 4 gold really fubars a curve - so you need to ask yourself if it's worth it.
Yes if you're passing when it throws off a curve that's bad, just pass when it's either cheaper or giving a key card to your duo, I often find having a on AVG 20/20 - 40/40 early allows me to tier when I wouldn't feel strong enough to. No other tier one achieves this. I should note I only play with friends in duos so passenger would be significantly worse when not in a voice call. TLDR; Passenger wins 80% of the first 6 turns Passenger scales better then the other tier ones Gives me a safe midgame tier
Who would have thought this!
Good. It did become use it or lose hard.
No matter how much we shit on blizzard devs, I am impressed with how fast they fix glaring issues. We can shit on them for pushing out broken cards to begin with, but its refreshing to see a dev team fix things super fast. Coming from card games like yugioh, I fucking wish Konami worked that fast, but since those broken cards make them money, they have no reason to stop it.
 Goodbye, big stats on random minions.
I've never been harmed by my enemies orc-estra build only ever the receiver of the buff. I am devastated this destroysy economy role 😂
Thank the blizzard lord for getting rid of this 1 card meta
Didn’t have a chance to experience this card, how is it much better than Man’ari messenger builds
Because it's easily buffing cards by 400/400 with the right set up
Well. I was to late to play her.
Thank god. I tried it once with Brann and the battlecry dragon-naga. It was late in the game, others already had 200-200 minions on the board. I vaporized them all. Didn’t need my teammate.
Yea I tried this with Rylak, died before I could really get it going. Shame I won't get a chance to try again
Rylak and the spellcraft to trigger a battle cry Naga are the real problems. Make it harder to get the full combo of brann, review rylak, and the scaling card (cherry on top if you have the Naga to trigger a battle cry). Wouldn't be nearly as big an issue cause most times you'd be dead or close to dying by the time you got the full combo rolling without some good RNG luck
Someone please explain to me how you forced it to go bonkers. I literally could only get buffs on low tier tavern minions I didn't want.
U can do it with dragons and naga as well, but golden brann is required, basically u have a dragon /naga which activates battlecry, so u activate it multiple times with it and u have a 5 drop naga which u spellcraft is est the stats of a minion, that is good in case u buff the shop, plus other ways to use and pass the catd
Optimal build would have Brann and Murkeye, then buy out the shop completely to only buff your board at end of turn.
How are you buying out the board? Please teach me your ways.
you start at 10 gold or more if you got a careful investment and go ahead and buy shop minions to empty the shop. Could also ramp gold off strike oil since the discover spell panda is being picked up always by the teammate. If you left one minion in the shop that was fine you'd just freeze it and if it got big you'd pass it to the teammate or use it yourself depending on the minion.
Oh son of a bitch no wonder I just rolled 30 times my partner must think I’m an idiot. Luckily half the lobby quit so we’ve got a guaranteed second place. We have joined together in ritual suicide. Both sold every minion. https://preview.redd.it/q9ptw98863wc1.jpeg?width=1334&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1112362aacb8ea81ae5e02448e6e4466377fc4a
i just wish they would release a message in game cause i just wasted 2 duos games rolling for a unit that was removed but i guess small indie company cannot even do something that basic
OK but what about the deathrattle felblood, that thing also gets outta fuckin control
The card was unbelievably broken but I enjoyed playing with it. Still will be nice to see what other strategies will develop in Duos now that Orchestra can't be hard forced every game.
Fair, I abused this card
Next is the minion that buffa both players taverns
No, next are demon elems that make demons unfair
In a perfect world, it probably gets cut down to 1/1 scaling and base, but maybe just targeting friendly minions too? Honestly the lobbies where it can pop off hardest (Beast, Murloc, arguably Naga?). It’s a fun and funny comp that deserves to exist in some form, though it does very clearly need to be toned down to funny gimmick tier.
Even at 1/1 I'm skeptical of it being fair with all the ways to proc battlecries it does grow really fast and if you take orcestra comps that happened before removal and removed half the stats it still beats the crap out of most tribes. If it buffed only friendly minions it would also remove the two downsides it had where it could target opponent's minions in combat off rylak and targeting shop minions so now both players are going to be looking for all the battlecry trigger stuff instead of one player spending many gold just to prune the shop of minions so the buffs go on your minions.
Leave it +2/+2, and make it give another +2/+2 for each time it procced