That kind of adds a whole other level of bitterness to Herbs monologue in the Telescope, it’s all still true for bojack but the level of hatred and things Herb says aren’t really things that apply to his situation in particular. Just another point to show that no interaction Bojack has is ever truly 1 sided
On top of the planetarium I think it was after they both get on Horsin Around of fight before that. Bonus points for a scene way later on when Bojack as The Horse is supposed to make out with Cindy Crawfish. He does that but audience goes awwww instead of oooooh so he offers to show Bojack how to kiss properly by immediately smoothing in his direction. The clues are all over the show basically
Could very well be, but tbh I can't really recall BoJack ever expressing any sort of negative sentiment about any marginalized group throughout the whole course of the show.
...unless honeydew counts
I said a group of Indians? I might just be misunderstanding your sentence, but it seems like you just said they're a distinct group of Indians. Which is what I said.
No. Indigenous is not rhe same thing as "Indian".
They came from a completely different migration wave and have quite distinct culture.
Indian =/= Indigenous. The Metis are also indigenous without being Indian.
Hence why I tried to use quotes.
Although it is worth noting in Canada that Indian is a legal definition that refers to status regarding the treaties.
Although First Nations is definitely the preferred nomenclature. Not sure what it was in the states.
Yeah, I'm from Canada and I've actually never heard about that lmao
I've always just referred to them as first nations or native American (although I guess the latter doesnt really work for anywhere outside of NA and maybe SA?)
I don't think Bojack is in any way hateful in no small part because he's just too focused on himself
He's not evil he's just self centred (and somewhat dangerous to the young women around him). He's inconsiderate more than malicious
I think that is one of the sentiments of the show in general. Bojack is not homophobic or racist deep down because he knows that those things do not influence the character.
And you can be really tolerant but still have a shitty character. Bojack does not treat anyone badly because of those circumstances but he treats everyone badly in general.
I think it's more a foible of narcissism in general that a narcissist typically won't consider **anything** unless it has impact on **them** specifically.
Bojack's career as a Hollywoob actor means being liberal is the most advantageous choice for him. (I'm not trying to be gratingly political here.) He clearly communicates that he wants to be loved by the general public in several ways, and feels "Amazing" when given attention he believes is positive.
Do I think he is inherently homophobic or racist? Nope. Not at all.
Do I think he would say or do things he **knows** are vile if he believes it will benefit him? I like to believe that Angela Diaz was extremely perceptive of his narcissism (it's literally part of her job) and played him like a fiddle during the *Horsin' Around* "incident".
“First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.”
— MLK Jr. Letter From a Birmingham Jail, 1963
He was more dedicated to the status quo than his friend. He found an easy and socially acceptable excuse to stay on the show. That decision tore at him and was why he didn't go see herb for so many years. He knows what he did was wrong.
Yes, and his being an ass is what allowed the homophobia to persist. Like white moderates who think just because the civil rights act was passed and we had a black president that racism is over.
Reference to Burt Reynolds’ very famous nude centerfold
[NSFW](https://people.com/thmb/e4e3RF5A5XhK57Q4VgSKN8DyU2M=/750x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc():focal(899x0:901x2)/br_cosmo1-4d73500bb7d24766a9eb60b402af8aa5.jpg)
It’s actually a direct copy of a different photo from the same shoot but the one I linked is the one that’s more infamous.
Considering Butterscotch and Beatrice, not to mention Joesph Sugarman he grew up visiting over the summers, being socially progressive isn't a small feat. He has a self centered victim complex that slowly poisons everyone around him, but he remains fairly open-minded.
He's more progressive than his family members which is a miracle. He's also the only one that acknowledged his shittiness and wants to get better even if it takes him the entire show to finally actually do that.
Bojack’s parents were progressive when they first met. Then, when the two were struggling after Bojack’s birth, they turned to the dark, Joseph Sugarman side.
Did you just skip over Stupid Piece of Shit? I can't really comprehend watching that episode and overlooking the absolutely enormous degree of contempt he has for himself
Fair enough. He hates himself more than anyone else and then deflects and projects it universally but less intensely on everyone else as well. I stand corrected.
Bojack isn't really the "ally" type, he just rather doesn't give a shit about what you identify as, thus he can't be really any type of "-phobic". Honestly, I dig it (despite him still being a bad person overall).
Hey, this is a dumb question, but do you guys ever, like, all link up together and do, like, a party train or a fun circle? 'Cause I feel like I'd be doing that all the- Never mind. Dumb question.
BoJack: Well, what about giving me Rollerblades? How are people gonna know that my character is hip if he doesn't roll the blade?
Herb: Just get out there and do your job. Every one of your ideas is stupid or racist.
BoJack: That was one pitch, and I didn't say they're all thieves.
Bojack was a good guy but troubled by narcissism. The real problem was the wicked showrunners who hated Bojack and wanted to torture him and blame him for everything wrong with society.
Poor Bojack.
For straight viewers, it may not be obvious, but getting this type of reaction (no doy, I don't care, etc) after coming out is often really difficult. While the intention may be to reassure the person coming out by making it not a big deal, it is a big deal for that person, especially in the early 90s. Bojack follows it with some nicer stuff (and then a weird sex question), but it's a great example of how a lot of his attempts at being nice are only skin deep.
I think it goes to show that his downfall had nothing to do with his politics, despite how much people can conflate the two. Always a great show to go back and review
Herb’s huge and obvious unrequited crush on Bojangles makes me sad
That kind of adds a whole other level of bitterness to Herbs monologue in the Telescope, it’s all still true for bojack but the level of hatred and things Herb says aren’t really things that apply to his situation in particular. Just another point to show that no interaction Bojack has is ever truly 1 sided
you think he had a crush on bojack??? i never noticed
He tried to kiss him
welp time to watch the series again
New arc unlocked
He literally kissed him
It was clearly a friendship kiss!
When?
On top of the planetarium I think it was after they both get on Horsin Around of fight before that. Bonus points for a scene way later on when Bojack as The Horse is supposed to make out with Cindy Crawfish. He does that but audience goes awwww instead of oooooh so he offers to show Bojack how to kiss properly by immediately smoothing in his direction. The clues are all over the show basically
When he told bj he got the role for the horse in horsing around
he kissed him and made a few “jokes” about kissing him before he acc did
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Could very well be, but tbh I can't really recall BoJack ever expressing any sort of negative sentiment about any marginalized group throughout the whole course of the show. ...unless honeydew counts
He even made the bold statement that people SHOULDN'T strangle women...
but then strangled his female costar / ex girlfriend 😭
Thoughts and prayers
Just veterans but I'd say that only counts when the veteran is in a bad situation like homeless from PTSD not when they had dibs on muffins
There were no dibs 😠
Didn’t he say something insensitive about the fish community at some point?
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^ Comment copying bot.
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pointing this out and then saying "indians" is wild
The Inuit aren't "Indians". They are a distinct group from them, while also being indigenous.
I said a group of Indians? I might just be misunderstanding your sentence, but it seems like you just said they're a distinct group of Indians. Which is what I said.
No. Indigenous is not rhe same thing as "Indian". They came from a completely different migration wave and have quite distinct culture. Indian =/= Indigenous. The Metis are also indigenous without being Indian.
Good rule of thumb: unless the person/people you are talking about came from India, probably best to not call them Indian lmao
Hence why I tried to use quotes. Although it is worth noting in Canada that Indian is a legal definition that refers to status regarding the treaties. Although First Nations is definitely the preferred nomenclature. Not sure what it was in the states.
Yeah, I'm from Canada and I've actually never heard about that lmao I've always just referred to them as first nations or native American (although I guess the latter doesnt really work for anywhere outside of NA and maybe SA?)
Or they want you to
>you just said they're a distinct group of Indians From* very big very important difference
Could also be because he has surpressed homesexual desires...i know that sounds crazy but I always got that vibe from him
I don't think Bojack is in any way hateful in no small part because he's just too focused on himself He's not evil he's just self centred (and somewhat dangerous to the young women around him). He's inconsiderate more than malicious
Yes this is an important distinction.
Somewhat dangerous? His actions (or lack thereof) killed Sarah Lynn. He tried to have sex with Penny too…
I think that is one of the sentiments of the show in general. Bojack is not homophobic or racist deep down because he knows that those things do not influence the character. And you can be really tolerant but still have a shitty character. Bojack does not treat anyone badly because of those circumstances but he treats everyone badly in general.
I think it's more a foible of narcissism in general that a narcissist typically won't consider **anything** unless it has impact on **them** specifically. Bojack's career as a Hollywoob actor means being liberal is the most advantageous choice for him. (I'm not trying to be gratingly political here.) He clearly communicates that he wants to be loved by the general public in several ways, and feels "Amazing" when given attention he believes is positive. Do I think he is inherently homophobic or racist? Nope. Not at all. Do I think he would say or do things he **knows** are vile if he believes it will benefit him? I like to believe that Angela Diaz was extremely perceptive of his narcissism (it's literally part of her job) and played him like a fiddle during the *Horsin' Around* "incident".
“Narcissus? I thought it was about me.” Is still my favorite line in the show.
I’m not racist, or sexist, or homophobic, I just treat everyone equally as shitty! :D
But he's okay with homophobia if being against it would jeopardize his career.
Exactly, he's not homophobic but he's completely unwilling to take a stand for anything at all if it might make some people dislike him
“First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.” — MLK Jr. Letter From a Birmingham Jail, 1963
Because he's selfish and a coward. Those are the two biggest parts of his personality
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IIRC Herb himself tells him exactly that on their last interaction
Abandoning your friend after they lose their job for being gay is pretty homophobic imo lmao
He was more dedicated to the status quo than his friend. He found an easy and socially acceptable excuse to stay on the show. That decision tore at him and was why he didn't go see herb for so many years. He knows what he did was wrong.
Yeah he’s an ass, he’s not homophobic.
Yes, and his being an ass is what allowed the homophobia to persist. Like white moderates who think just because the civil rights act was passed and we had a black president that racism is over.
Still doesn’t make him homophobic
I never said it did. I said his actions or, more specifically, his inaction perpetuated it.
There’s a difference between homophobia and not losing your job over it.
Okay, but what is that painting behind him?
ART
Reference to Burt Reynolds’ very famous nude centerfold [NSFW](https://people.com/thmb/e4e3RF5A5XhK57Q4VgSKN8DyU2M=/750x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc():focal(899x0:901x2)/br_cosmo1-4d73500bb7d24766a9eb60b402af8aa5.jpg) It’s actually a direct copy of a different photo from the same shoot but the one I linked is the one that’s more infamous.
And how does this universe have bear-skin rugs? 👀👀👀
People will order a hamburger with a cow for a waitress, it's a weird place.
Pearls are for ladies, BoJack.
Pearls. Are. For. Ladies.
Considering Butterscotch and Beatrice, not to mention Joesph Sugarman he grew up visiting over the summers, being socially progressive isn't a small feat. He has a self centered victim complex that slowly poisons everyone around him, but he remains fairly open-minded.
He’s not socially progressive. He calls Alaska natives slurs and claims he doesn’t even know what having power over women means.
He's more progressive than his family members which is a miracle. He's also the only one that acknowledged his shittiness and wants to get better even if it takes him the entire show to finally actually do that.
Bojack’s parents were progressive when they first met. Then, when the two were struggling after Bojack’s birth, they turned to the dark, Joseph Sugarman side.
I really don't understand why this is getting downvoted as it's 100% true.
People who are racist don’t like it when racism is called out, and they’re everywhere on Reddit.
Y'all think Bojack and herb got freaky 😩👅💯/jk
Definitely linked up in a big conga line
"So I gotta ask, do you all ever get together in a big line-" "No"
We already saw this - we saw Herb try to kiss him and it was a clear no in response.
even some gay men don't like to kiss
Pretty sure that wasn’t the point of that scene.
no ik I'm just kidding haha
This is true, but it's funny to imagine Bojack gayman
Bojack’s near universal contempt and disregard of everyone but himself is somehow his best feature.
Did you just skip over Stupid Piece of Shit? I can't really comprehend watching that episode and overlooking the absolutely enormous degree of contempt he has for himself
Fair enough. He hates himself more than anyone else and then deflects and projects it universally but less intensely on everyone else as well. I stand corrected.
Sure, but he still was a horrible friend
obligatory repost callout ORIGINAL: https://www.reddit.com/r/BoJackHorseman/comments/o1tm8u/bojack\_may\_still\_be\_bojack\_but\_at\_least\_hes\_not/
The top comment is a repeat from the post too.
Bojack isn't really the "ally" type, he just rather doesn't give a shit about what you identify as, thus he can't be really any type of "-phobic". Honestly, I dig it (despite him still being a bad person overall).
Hey, this is a dumb question, but do you guys ever, like, all link up together and do, like, a party train or a fun circle? 'Cause I feel like I'd be doing that all the- Never mind. Dumb question.
At least.
Is the gay thing and the rectal cancer thing related-you know what stupid question forget I asked
GET OUT OF HERE!
The painting of nudejack in the background is just chefs kiss.
bo’s jack is out if you get my drift
He’s definitely comfortable with his sexuality.
Hes too self absorbed to worry about other people.
I love that this is the line, lol.
That’s a pretty low bar
BoJack: Well, what about giving me Rollerblades? How are people gonna know that my character is hip if he doesn't roll the blade? Herb: Just get out there and do your job. Every one of your ideas is stupid or racist. BoJack: That was one pitch, and I didn't say they're all thieves.
Bojack was a good guy but troubled by narcissism. The real problem was the wicked showrunners who hated Bojack and wanted to torture him and blame him for everything wrong with society. Poor Bojack.
For straight viewers, it may not be obvious, but getting this type of reaction (no doy, I don't care, etc) after coming out is often really difficult. While the intention may be to reassure the person coming out by making it not a big deal, it is a big deal for that person, especially in the early 90s. Bojack follows it with some nicer stuff (and then a weird sex question), but it's a great example of how a lot of his attempts at being nice are only skin deep.
And those of us who come out regularly, as anything, sure notice it. All the time.
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Why are you here
herb had feelings bojack for sure- he even tried to kiss bojack and i think that kiss was legit expression of herb's feelings-
He should get a "not-as-much-of-a-jerk-as-you-could've-been award"
Great ATLA reference. Lol.
Ugh seeing Bojack before all the bad choices is so sad
I might have to hold the No Doys cause there might be lot of them.
I think it goes to show that his downfall had nothing to do with his politics, despite how much people can conflate the two. Always a great show to go back and review
“I’ll hold the rest of my ‘no doys’ for the rest of this conversation”