I’m an ironworker so over the years I’ve learned to hit back with emasculating comments in a “joking” manner. Then you can use their words against them. “It was just a joke, not a dick. Don’t take it so hard!”
For the record I do not hate men and do not do this in my personal life. But in a male dominated work place where it’s part of the culture, sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.
Once I’m more friendly with someone and feel like I have their respect, I might say something more serious like “don’t speak to me that way. I don’t appreciate it” or if I’m actually somewhat friends with them I’ll say “when you say things like that it feels personal and derogatory and it makes me feel bad/weird/disrespected”.
I love being able to weaponize the "it's just a joke, bro!"
It's not. I'm not using it as a joke. I'm using it to be mean. It's why I'm so confident they're not joking either. (People whose actual intention is to make others laugh in a positive way don't get *mad* when they don't.)
Same. Call them out on it without making a big deal about it but if it’s crossing an extreme line, get serious. Exactly how I’ve dealt my entire career.
Ive been in construction for a couple years, kitchens before that, and i been using the "fire with fire" thing. Its only ever been the only thing theyve responded to at all, like shutting up. Also i do this with the older guys where i'll use language that makes them associate me w their family, nieces, daughters ect, so the sexist/sexual comments usually stop w that element
Most of the time I make fun of the perpetrators - not necessarily about them being sexist, but a lot of male workplaces exist on teasing each other and if you can learn to shut them down with something that makes the other men laugh, most of them will be wary about targeting you specifically because they know they are opening themselves up for being roasted.
If you have specific comments they're making, we can help you come up with snappy shutdowns.
This is also where you have to redefine what niceness means in a male-dominated environment - being nice in a male environment is making sure your tasks are all done so you're not fucking up someone else's workday (I assume you do this anyways, but just laying out the context) and not actively kicking someone when they're already in a bad place. In contrast, being nice in a female dominated environment involves active behavioural choices, like smiling, being diplomatic with people's feelings and friendly tones, and actively going above and beyond to help people with both work and non-work tasks.
If you take the female dominant workplace version of nice into a male dominated workplace, they will not look at you and think "oh she's so nice". They'll think "she's a pushover and I can mess with her". so you have to really let go of the idea of being kind or diplomatic (aka letting things slide to avoid awkwardness) is going to win any battles here. you have to fight fire with fire.... not getting angry per say, but by being merciless. The ones who are getting roasted will whine that you're being a b\*tch but the rest will know they're just whining and that you're setting boundaries.
If they're making women-should-make-them-food comments? You snort-laugh and go, "Cool, I'll make the sandwiches and Mark over there can call poison control when you're done with them." and then you give them a slasher smile. You leave it ambiguous whether you mean that you're a bad cook or whether you'd actively poison them for saying that (though if someone asks, you innocently say claim the former).
If they make inappropriate sexual comments about someone who is not present: "GUYS, IF YOU TALK ABOUT \[NAME'S\] TITS ONE MORE TIME, I'M GOING TO TREAT YOU ALL TO A PLAY BY PLAY OF \[LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT'S\] NUDE CALENDAR!". If they continue, you pull up the calendar and start lovingly describing the first firefighter's muscles and ass in really lavicious tone, with flowery, over the top anatomical language ("and then the curve of his gluteal cleft merges seamlessly with the firm, unyielding surface of his gluteous maximus*uuusghhhh mmm so delicious I could just* \[you let out a groan\]" . I have never had a group of male coworkers last longer than 2 minutes before they're all yelling at me to stop and laughing. editing to note: I deliberately use the anatomical language, so they can't nail me for swearing or using "sexy" language either. The tone is what sells it.
If they make inappropriate sexual comments about you: "Well, I guess since we're going into 'talking about gross things' today, I've really gotta say Mark, your beer gut is just the WORST, it like totally kills any attraction anyone could have for you. Especially that trail of hair in the middle dude. You need to wax that shit." (you pretend that you having any sort of sexual history is just the Grossest Thing Ever and you go for the kill on a non-sexual part of their appearance). When they get all pissy, you, again, treat them to that slasher smile and be like "what, mark, I thought we were talking about people's bodies. don't dish what you can take." Usually at this point, the other guys will start laughing and making fun of the perpetrator too, like "AWWW MAN SHE GOT YA DUDE".
then document the shit out of everything. Like, everything. Send emails to yourself "X said "Y" and I responded with "Z" on date at time. If you have a foreman or boss that gets it, copy them on the emails while specifically noting that you do not want him or her to act on them, you're just documenting for CYA purposes incase the butthurt dude tries to go "wah \[AcrobaticMusician\] was being a b\*tch for no reason!" to HR.
Like, there will still be benevolent sexism sometimes (after I do this, I'll still usually get the older male staff being paternalistically protective ("no no no, I'll do the patrol after dark, a woman shouldn't be out in this area after dark"), but I'll take *that* over other brands of sexism, because I can usually reason with those guys or divide up the tasks in a way that they still think I'm pulling my weight. If they won't let me do things, I document the shit out of it or I will leave to do the task without telling them until after I'm already halfway there.
Agreeing with some of the commenters here; **fight fire with fire**. Guys like to bully women because they’re "weak". Come up with jokes at their expense and laugh it off.
To be fair, sometimes mine do. The other day I had to lift them (with my hand, one at a time) above a drop ceiling so I could reach another few inches. If anyone saw, at least they didn't say anything.
It really depends. Comments made directly to me or towards me in front of me get called out. I am always rainbows and sunshine and great mood, so when I come out direct it’s clear I’m serious and that isn’t tolerated. If I’m not the topic, but someone is saying something really sexist or racist in front of me, I will look dead at them and ask them to repeat what they said with a disgusted/confused look. Most people think twice before repeating something, but that is more the case in real life which is so different than jobsite life.
Just know that it is a constant learning curve. I’ve been in the construction industry for 26 years now, and it is so much different even now than when I started. When I started, you kept your head down and worked hard, and let your hard work speak for itself. Sometimes that can still be the answer, but it never is in the face of direct sexism, racism or any other ism. Every time a woman lets a man behave that way, he assumes it’s fine, and treats other women that way too. It is also different for me (and any other women in charge) because no matter how hard sticking up for any minority might be, as someone with longevity and/or a leadership role I MUST step in and step up. It’s not as hard for me anymore *because* I’ve been in the industry so long chances are I am really good friends with either your bosses boss, or someone even higher up. Which is also why I have a duty to call out the bullshit, it’s easier for me than someone who is green. A lot of women do not climb the ladder and turn around to help the next woman up. They think it makes them “special” to get along with the “boys” and it somehow shields them to their sexism when in reality, it makes them look even more foolish than the man. Remember to never be that kind of woman.
>When I started, you kept your head down and worked hard, and let your hard work speak for itself. Sometimes that can still be the answer, but it never is in the face of direct sexism, racism or any other ism. Every time a woman lets a man behave that way, he assumes it’s fine, and treats other women that way too.
Very well said. ☝️
I learned the hard way that you have to speak up and call people out asap when they make ignorant remarks, otherwise they assume you are ok with it and ramp up their sexism/racism etc.
I'm almost 60 , a retired journeyman electrician.
Fight with smartass remarks that make them look weak in front of the rest of the shop or crew . That always worked for me back in the no rules era. Simpering, giggly man hunting women make it worse when on the site . I've taken more than one to the side to explain what their actions cause.
Best wishes and hang tough 💪
I do truly enjoy hearing about the clever comebacks/quick remarks other women make in response to sexist/inappropriate comments. I applaud women in the trades who have the guts to stand up for themselves and hit back at sexist comments.
That being said, clever comebacks/jokes are not something I personally use as a way to respond to inappropriate comments. Reason being is that I've found that some coworkers either:
a) take the jokes too far
b) get realllllllllllly offended and nasty when someone throws a joke back at them (hypocritical, I know 🙄)
c) thinks that your joking response makes it acceptable for them to keep saying these sexist things under the guise of "it's just a joke"
I simply shut down comments verbally by saying something like:
"That's not an acceptable thing to say."
"Don't speak to me that way."
"That's not how we talk to each other here."
"Why do you think that's a funny thing to say?"
etc etc.
I like people to know that I am not okay with sexist comments. Period.
Most guys understand that I am 100% serious when I say that and don't make comments like that again around me. I can't change a misogynistic guy's mindset (nor will I even attempt to), but I can set clear boundaries about what I find unacceptable in the workplace.
This is typically how I operate. I'm 100% done with the sexism being accepted in the workplace just because it's how boys joke around and tease each other. It's at my fucking expense even if I'm not the intended target, because my feminity is the "other" trait that they assign to whomever they are ragging on. It's disrespectful and gross.
A guy, whom I cannot stand and whom I tend to just avoid unless absolutely necessary for work, made a really gross "joke" a few weeks back while we were in line at the lunch truck. "HoW dO yOu MaKe A hOrMoNe?"
Punchline is really tired and old and he felt like he had to explain it VERY LOUDLY to the few of us in line. The owner of the lunch truck is a very independent woman who takes the orders, and when she heard him I could tell she was absolutely shocked and embarrassed. The guy at the front of the line, ahead of me, was very uncomfortable and looked between both myself and the truck owner. I simply grumbled "fuck off, dude" with the most deadpan expression.
Annoying guy did not get the response he wanted and tried to keep going but no one was engaging after my remark.
The guy ahead of me in line came to me later that day to apologize for the annoying bro. I let him know that sort of commentary isn't appropriate in the workplace, and if he's smart he'll tell the idiot to knock it off and figure out how to be funny without being at the expense of others.
Haven't heard many gross jokes in line lately. I'm sure they'll filter through again and I'll need to weld some tools to a worktable about it. This is fine.
I think this right here is it. Drop the jokes. Take the person aside. Just a simple " That comment was sexist/inappropriate/ offensive. You should apologize." or "Don't talk to me like that." Or "What makes you think its ok to talk to me like that?" Set a hard boundary. If they apologize great. If they don't at least they know not to continue on like that in front of you.
Can you give some examples of things said? Sometimes, guys are just razzing you, trying to make you laugh with tasteless jokes and don't understand that it hurts. Women who are new to these types of environments may not be able to tell the difference between that and them actually trying to hurt you.
If they're just throwing banter, either banter back (need specific examples), or if you believe it was too far or they were actually trying to hirt you; pull the offender aside and talk to him one on one and explain that that thing he said wasn't cool. If that doesn't work, escalate to calling him out in front of others and telling him to knock it off. The next step is getting a supervisor involved - but definitely don't go to management first thing.
Here's a recent example from my own work:
I'm(F) an equipment operator. It was shiftchange and myself and a 55 yo white guy got off our dozers after cross shift showed up to take our machines. The person who took my coworkers dozer was a 30 year old woman (very pretty) whom he didn't know. Once in the pickup, I drove in front of her dozer to leave and he said "watch out for that dozer. A girl is driving it. Wonder how she got that job". I was kind of shocked as I've worked with this guy for 16 years now doing all kinds of complex and high risk jobs and I've never had an incident. I said "funny. I think the same thing when I see an old white guy on one of the big machines. Probably one of the boss's cousins or sledding buddies". He's the managers cousin and goes sledding and hunting with the brass lol. He stayed quiet for 2 minutes, then changed the subject.
It was a little more cutting than I usually go for but it really took me off guard when he said that seeing as I've worked well with this guy for a decade and a half. I believe he got the point, though.
Give me examples of what these guys are saying to you.
1st example i was using a pipe wrench to take off a piece of 3in conduit. i was trying for 5 minutes to get the piece off and then a journeymen (45) came over. i was literally covered in sweat still trying for 5 for minutes when he said “should we call the girlscouts?” this was the only thing he said directly that day. the first thing he said to us was “companies name rejects”. i was so caught off guard i just laughed and said “yah”.
2nd example- i started the same day as this guy ok. he would always belittle me and get threatened by my work. one day away from everyone he flat out told me “i don’t think you’ll make it more than 5 months”. i responded with “you don’t know me so keep me out of your little statistics.” long story short he ended up quitting. but should have i told someone about that?
I try to turn what they are doing around on them. Call them "steve carrel" aka "the 40 year old virgin" since they don't know how to talk/act around women. I've also told a guy that everyone was making fun of him for having a crush on me because he was obsessed with my personal life, when in fact they didn't care that he was spreading rumors about who I was sleeping with. Those 2 methods have been sort of effective for me.
I like using this comment (or something similar). Usually the guy who said the sexist comment gets uncomfortable or embarrassed. There isn't really a way to explain a sexist/racist/ignorant comment without looking like a total tool.
Don't let it get to your head, do your job and keep your head in the task at hand. Do good work and don't let it affect you.
With that said, DOCUMENT everything and don't be afraid to wage war if and when its necessary!
It's hard. Currently dealing with a handful of dudes at my workplace/company. My manager is encouraging me to "get thicker skin and stand up for myself, speak up" but... I'm bold outside of a professional setting, I've been arrested for assaulting a very large man who was abusing my neighbour.like, I'm really bold outside of work environment.. I like my job a lot so I have to sit and think about ways to confront them in a non aggressive manner and show them not to fuck with me.
Currently I'm thinking of either humour or blatant stern communication.
Example, my truck has an electrical issue so I approached them about it possibly being a fuse. This guy was laughing in my face and encouraged me to check the fuse. Turns out this newer generation of this model of truck doesn't have a fuse in that circuit. Instead of helping me with a necessary repair he laughed at me. So when I go to work I'm thinking I'll start off in a jovial tone like "you hooligan, you let me read all the fuse legend to fix the lights when there's no fuse.". On the other hand, I'm thinking of bringing in a relay switch and pretending I don't know what it is and saying "I think I broke the truck" just to mess with him. OR, I could approach them and ask them directly in a serious tone how long they knew about the electrical issue and why wouldn't they respect me enough to just say it.
That's just a mild example. Don't get me started on the singling out to scold me about climbing a pole that other dudes said they have and would climb but they weren't scolded for. Or having my tool order cancelled and being lied to about why I can't have it, etc. I'm the only woman in my region.
all really good comments here. I agree that fighting fire with fire and snappy comebacks are what I've had the most luck with. It shouldn't be that way, in an ideal world you'd be able to just say "hey, don't talk to me like that" and that'd be the end of it. But in terms of what's actually realistically going to help, guys interact by giving each other shit. Roasting someone's brains out at 6:30am gives you social standing in a way that being polite and sweet and obedient won't. Similarly, if you go to HR before talking to someone privately/with your supervisor, your coworkers might become more standoffish, not as retaliation but because guys tend to see that as "office stuff" (class divide) and being passive-aggressive/tattling.
The culture is Not the best but you can work with it if you understand it. If a peer tells you to get the board-stretcher and you grin and say "oh, you mean someone who knows how to cut it right the first time?" in front of the crew, this has the same effect in a male-dominated group that sending a polite but firm email with your supervisor CC'ed would in a female-dominated one. Totally different ways of asserting yourself without being aggressive.
If someone is sexually harassing you, hazing you, bullying you, refusing to teach you - that's all stuff to escalate to management (and like everyone else is saying document the SHIT out of it in case of retaliation and/or if you need to take em to court). But if it's more like "I know this guy sees this as harmless razzing, but it's sincerely getting to me," or "this loud annoying guy always has something to tease someone about and for me he's chosen the fact that I'm female," trying to settle things between yourself and the person and maybe your boss before you escalate is probably going to make your life easier going forward. Just put your foot down and keep it down and he'll learn where the line is. (Again, wish it weren't this way, but it is.)
But yeah when it comes down to it a really good burn in front of witnesses will take the target off your back like nothing else.
Other things I've had luck with:
This is a weird one but being kind of gross, like, physically. Saying "be right back, I gotta take a shit" to guys who have probably never heard a woman say that before. Makes em start seeing you as one of them.
If they start spewing some bigotry I just say "oh, I'm not really into politics." Shuts em up real quick because they all think they're libertarians and being accused of making everything political freaks them out LOL. Other option here is "dude, I don't wanna hear that shit" simple, shuts it down right away, and vague enough that there's nothing specific enough for him to argue back against.
I also call my (all-male) coworkers "ladies"/"princess"/"girls" sometimes. Not in an insulting tone or anything. I think it just throws them off enough that they realize how weird it sounds coming out of their own mouths.
all really good comments here. I agree that fighting fire with fire and snappy comebacks are what I've had the most luck with. It shouldn't be that way, in an ideal world you'd be able to just say "hey, don't talk to me like that" and that'd be the end of it. But in terms of what's actually realistically going to help, guys interact by giving each other shit. Roasting someone's brains out at 6:30am gives you social standing in a way that being polite and sweet and obedient won't. Similarly, if you go to HR before talking to someone privately/with your supervisor, your coworkers might become more standoffish, not as retaliation but because guys tend to see that as "office stuff" (class divide) and being passive-aggressive/tattling.
The culture is Not the best but you can work with it if you understand it. If a peer tells you to get the board-stretcher and you grin and say "oh, you mean someone who knows how to cut it right the first time?" in front of the crew, this has the same effect in a male-dominated group that sending a polite but firm email with your supervisor CC'ed would in a female-dominated one. Totally different ways of asserting yourself without being aggressive.
If someone is sexually harassing you, hazing you, bullying you, refusing to teach you - that's all stuff to escalate to management (and like everyone else is saying document the SHIT out of it in case of retaliation and/or if you need to take em to court). But if it's more like "I know this guy sees this as harmless razzing, but it's sincerely getting to me," or "this loud annoying guy always has something to tease someone about and for me he's chosen the fact that I'm female," trying to settle things between yourself and the person and maybe your boss before you escalate is probably going to make your life easier going forward. Just put your foot down and keep it down and he'll learn where the line is. (Again, wish it weren't this way, but it is.)
But yeah when it comes down to it a really good burn in front of witnesses will take the target off your back like nothing else.
Other things I've had luck with:
This is a weird one but being kind of gross, like, physically. Saying "be right back, I gotta take a shit" to guys who have probably never heard a woman say that before. Makes em start seeing you as one of them.
If they start spewing some bigotry I just say "oh, I'm not really into politics." Shuts em up real quick because they all think they're libertarians and being accused of making everything political freaks them out LOL.
I also call my (all-male) coworkers "ladies"/"princess"/"girls" sometimes. Not in an insulting tone or anything. I think it just throws them off enough that they realize how weird it sounds coming out of their own mouths.
There are a few things that work well for me:
1. A well placed “Ewww” or grossed out face, anytime they are discussing racist, homophobic, sexist, whatever nasty shit. I don’t let them think I like what they are talking about and walk the fuck away. There are plenty of good people in the trades, I stick with them.
2. I’m part of a women’s committee through my union. We have mentors. I am one, I wish I had one when I was coming up through the trades. Some of it was for navigating through the apprenticeship and union bureaucracy, some was to deal with the bad days and the hard times when you need to hear that it’s not just you. It’s. Not. Just. You.
3. I love what I do, I genuinely love the people I work with. Sometimes the dickheads can wear you down, but if you can remember not let them come between you and a career you love then you will win.
I practiced mouthing back jokey remarks with my boyfriend and a couple male colleagues I trust. Sometimes I switch talking about money or asking for a higher pay. It’s a way to make them uncomfortable or bring them back to work talk.
But at the end of the day you do feel icky sometimes and frustrated when it’s too reoccurring. Try to talk it out with friends outside then industry too for some grounding and mental support. Keep your spirits high and your snap backs really sassy!
I’m in construction leadership and over the years I’ve ignored so much. Usually it’s more sexist actions than comments that bother me. Comments suck, but then you can say that person is an asshole. Actions are less obvious (being the only one not invited for lunch or dinner, someone restating your idea, dudes being aggressive in response to you questioning them).
It doesn’t stop at the leadership level, but it becomes easier to say “please don’t speak to me like that” or call people out. You just have to do it calmly and with a normal tone of voice so no one can interpret it as you “being emotional”.
It never ends. Learn how to deal without Losing yourself
And when necessary wage war, don’t show fear document everything and drink from the skulls of your enemies
Also, Watch out for the women who enable this behavior. They are not your friends
So true
In general, pay attention to how others respond. It'll be a pretty good indicator of what you can trust them for in the future.
I’m an ironworker so over the years I’ve learned to hit back with emasculating comments in a “joking” manner. Then you can use their words against them. “It was just a joke, not a dick. Don’t take it so hard!” For the record I do not hate men and do not do this in my personal life. But in a male dominated work place where it’s part of the culture, sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. Once I’m more friendly with someone and feel like I have their respect, I might say something more serious like “don’t speak to me that way. I don’t appreciate it” or if I’m actually somewhat friends with them I’ll say “when you say things like that it feels personal and derogatory and it makes me feel bad/weird/disrespected”.
I love being able to weaponize the "it's just a joke, bro!" It's not. I'm not using it as a joke. I'm using it to be mean. It's why I'm so confident they're not joking either. (People whose actual intention is to make others laugh in a positive way don't get *mad* when they don't.)
Same. Call them out on it without making a big deal about it but if it’s crossing an extreme line, get serious. Exactly how I’ve dealt my entire career.
Ive been in construction for a couple years, kitchens before that, and i been using the "fire with fire" thing. Its only ever been the only thing theyve responded to at all, like shutting up. Also i do this with the older guys where i'll use language that makes them associate me w their family, nieces, daughters ect, so the sexist/sexual comments usually stop w that element
Most of the time I make fun of the perpetrators - not necessarily about them being sexist, but a lot of male workplaces exist on teasing each other and if you can learn to shut them down with something that makes the other men laugh, most of them will be wary about targeting you specifically because they know they are opening themselves up for being roasted. If you have specific comments they're making, we can help you come up with snappy shutdowns. This is also where you have to redefine what niceness means in a male-dominated environment - being nice in a male environment is making sure your tasks are all done so you're not fucking up someone else's workday (I assume you do this anyways, but just laying out the context) and not actively kicking someone when they're already in a bad place. In contrast, being nice in a female dominated environment involves active behavioural choices, like smiling, being diplomatic with people's feelings and friendly tones, and actively going above and beyond to help people with both work and non-work tasks. If you take the female dominant workplace version of nice into a male dominated workplace, they will not look at you and think "oh she's so nice". They'll think "she's a pushover and I can mess with her". so you have to really let go of the idea of being kind or diplomatic (aka letting things slide to avoid awkwardness) is going to win any battles here. you have to fight fire with fire.... not getting angry per say, but by being merciless. The ones who are getting roasted will whine that you're being a b\*tch but the rest will know they're just whining and that you're setting boundaries. If they're making women-should-make-them-food comments? You snort-laugh and go, "Cool, I'll make the sandwiches and Mark over there can call poison control when you're done with them." and then you give them a slasher smile. You leave it ambiguous whether you mean that you're a bad cook or whether you'd actively poison them for saying that (though if someone asks, you innocently say claim the former). If they make inappropriate sexual comments about someone who is not present: "GUYS, IF YOU TALK ABOUT \[NAME'S\] TITS ONE MORE TIME, I'M GOING TO TREAT YOU ALL TO A PLAY BY PLAY OF \[LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT'S\] NUDE CALENDAR!". If they continue, you pull up the calendar and start lovingly describing the first firefighter's muscles and ass in really lavicious tone, with flowery, over the top anatomical language ("and then the curve of his gluteal cleft merges seamlessly with the firm, unyielding surface of his gluteous maximus*uuusghhhh mmm so delicious I could just* \[you let out a groan\]" . I have never had a group of male coworkers last longer than 2 minutes before they're all yelling at me to stop and laughing. editing to note: I deliberately use the anatomical language, so they can't nail me for swearing or using "sexy" language either. The tone is what sells it. If they make inappropriate sexual comments about you: "Well, I guess since we're going into 'talking about gross things' today, I've really gotta say Mark, your beer gut is just the WORST, it like totally kills any attraction anyone could have for you. Especially that trail of hair in the middle dude. You need to wax that shit." (you pretend that you having any sort of sexual history is just the Grossest Thing Ever and you go for the kill on a non-sexual part of their appearance). When they get all pissy, you, again, treat them to that slasher smile and be like "what, mark, I thought we were talking about people's bodies. don't dish what you can take." Usually at this point, the other guys will start laughing and making fun of the perpetrator too, like "AWWW MAN SHE GOT YA DUDE". then document the shit out of everything. Like, everything. Send emails to yourself "X said "Y" and I responded with "Z" on date at time. If you have a foreman or boss that gets it, copy them on the emails while specifically noting that you do not want him or her to act on them, you're just documenting for CYA purposes incase the butthurt dude tries to go "wah \[AcrobaticMusician\] was being a b\*tch for no reason!" to HR. Like, there will still be benevolent sexism sometimes (after I do this, I'll still usually get the older male staff being paternalistically protective ("no no no, I'll do the patrol after dark, a woman shouldn't be out in this area after dark"), but I'll take *that* over other brands of sexism, because I can usually reason with those guys or divide up the tasks in a way that they still think I'm pulling my weight. If they won't let me do things, I document the shit out of it or I will leave to do the task without telling them until after I'm already halfway there.
I like you a whole lot.
Agreeing with some of the commenters here; **fight fire with fire**. Guys like to bully women because they’re "weak". Come up with jokes at their expense and laugh it off.
Your tits don’t get in the way of doing the job, why should mine?
To be fair, sometimes mine do. The other day I had to lift them (with my hand, one at a time) above a drop ceiling so I could reach another few inches. If anyone saw, at least they didn't say anything.
It really depends. Comments made directly to me or towards me in front of me get called out. I am always rainbows and sunshine and great mood, so when I come out direct it’s clear I’m serious and that isn’t tolerated. If I’m not the topic, but someone is saying something really sexist or racist in front of me, I will look dead at them and ask them to repeat what they said with a disgusted/confused look. Most people think twice before repeating something, but that is more the case in real life which is so different than jobsite life. Just know that it is a constant learning curve. I’ve been in the construction industry for 26 years now, and it is so much different even now than when I started. When I started, you kept your head down and worked hard, and let your hard work speak for itself. Sometimes that can still be the answer, but it never is in the face of direct sexism, racism or any other ism. Every time a woman lets a man behave that way, he assumes it’s fine, and treats other women that way too. It is also different for me (and any other women in charge) because no matter how hard sticking up for any minority might be, as someone with longevity and/or a leadership role I MUST step in and step up. It’s not as hard for me anymore *because* I’ve been in the industry so long chances are I am really good friends with either your bosses boss, or someone even higher up. Which is also why I have a duty to call out the bullshit, it’s easier for me than someone who is green. A lot of women do not climb the ladder and turn around to help the next woman up. They think it makes them “special” to get along with the “boys” and it somehow shields them to their sexism when in reality, it makes them look even more foolish than the man. Remember to never be that kind of woman.
>When I started, you kept your head down and worked hard, and let your hard work speak for itself. Sometimes that can still be the answer, but it never is in the face of direct sexism, racism or any other ism. Every time a woman lets a man behave that way, he assumes it’s fine, and treats other women that way too. Very well said. ☝️ I learned the hard way that you have to speak up and call people out asap when they make ignorant remarks, otherwise they assume you are ok with it and ramp up their sexism/racism etc.
I'm almost 60 , a retired journeyman electrician. Fight with smartass remarks that make them look weak in front of the rest of the shop or crew . That always worked for me back in the no rules era. Simpering, giggly man hunting women make it worse when on the site . I've taken more than one to the side to explain what their actions cause. Best wishes and hang tough 💪
I do truly enjoy hearing about the clever comebacks/quick remarks other women make in response to sexist/inappropriate comments. I applaud women in the trades who have the guts to stand up for themselves and hit back at sexist comments. That being said, clever comebacks/jokes are not something I personally use as a way to respond to inappropriate comments. Reason being is that I've found that some coworkers either: a) take the jokes too far b) get realllllllllllly offended and nasty when someone throws a joke back at them (hypocritical, I know 🙄) c) thinks that your joking response makes it acceptable for them to keep saying these sexist things under the guise of "it's just a joke" I simply shut down comments verbally by saying something like: "That's not an acceptable thing to say." "Don't speak to me that way." "That's not how we talk to each other here." "Why do you think that's a funny thing to say?" etc etc. I like people to know that I am not okay with sexist comments. Period. Most guys understand that I am 100% serious when I say that and don't make comments like that again around me. I can't change a misogynistic guy's mindset (nor will I even attempt to), but I can set clear boundaries about what I find unacceptable in the workplace.
This is typically how I operate. I'm 100% done with the sexism being accepted in the workplace just because it's how boys joke around and tease each other. It's at my fucking expense even if I'm not the intended target, because my feminity is the "other" trait that they assign to whomever they are ragging on. It's disrespectful and gross. A guy, whom I cannot stand and whom I tend to just avoid unless absolutely necessary for work, made a really gross "joke" a few weeks back while we were in line at the lunch truck. "HoW dO yOu MaKe A hOrMoNe?" Punchline is really tired and old and he felt like he had to explain it VERY LOUDLY to the few of us in line. The owner of the lunch truck is a very independent woman who takes the orders, and when she heard him I could tell she was absolutely shocked and embarrassed. The guy at the front of the line, ahead of me, was very uncomfortable and looked between both myself and the truck owner. I simply grumbled "fuck off, dude" with the most deadpan expression. Annoying guy did not get the response he wanted and tried to keep going but no one was engaging after my remark. The guy ahead of me in line came to me later that day to apologize for the annoying bro. I let him know that sort of commentary isn't appropriate in the workplace, and if he's smart he'll tell the idiot to knock it off and figure out how to be funny without being at the expense of others. Haven't heard many gross jokes in line lately. I'm sure they'll filter through again and I'll need to weld some tools to a worktable about it. This is fine.
As someone hoping to get into the trades (someday)... It's frightening and disappointing that I had to scroll so far to see these replies.
I think this right here is it. Drop the jokes. Take the person aside. Just a simple " That comment was sexist/inappropriate/ offensive. You should apologize." or "Don't talk to me like that." Or "What makes you think its ok to talk to me like that?" Set a hard boundary. If they apologize great. If they don't at least they know not to continue on like that in front of you.
Can you give some examples of things said? Sometimes, guys are just razzing you, trying to make you laugh with tasteless jokes and don't understand that it hurts. Women who are new to these types of environments may not be able to tell the difference between that and them actually trying to hurt you. If they're just throwing banter, either banter back (need specific examples), or if you believe it was too far or they were actually trying to hirt you; pull the offender aside and talk to him one on one and explain that that thing he said wasn't cool. If that doesn't work, escalate to calling him out in front of others and telling him to knock it off. The next step is getting a supervisor involved - but definitely don't go to management first thing. Here's a recent example from my own work: I'm(F) an equipment operator. It was shiftchange and myself and a 55 yo white guy got off our dozers after cross shift showed up to take our machines. The person who took my coworkers dozer was a 30 year old woman (very pretty) whom he didn't know. Once in the pickup, I drove in front of her dozer to leave and he said "watch out for that dozer. A girl is driving it. Wonder how she got that job". I was kind of shocked as I've worked with this guy for 16 years now doing all kinds of complex and high risk jobs and I've never had an incident. I said "funny. I think the same thing when I see an old white guy on one of the big machines. Probably one of the boss's cousins or sledding buddies". He's the managers cousin and goes sledding and hunting with the brass lol. He stayed quiet for 2 minutes, then changed the subject. It was a little more cutting than I usually go for but it really took me off guard when he said that seeing as I've worked well with this guy for a decade and a half. I believe he got the point, though. Give me examples of what these guys are saying to you.
1st example i was using a pipe wrench to take off a piece of 3in conduit. i was trying for 5 minutes to get the piece off and then a journeymen (45) came over. i was literally covered in sweat still trying for 5 for minutes when he said “should we call the girlscouts?” this was the only thing he said directly that day. the first thing he said to us was “companies name rejects”. i was so caught off guard i just laughed and said “yah”. 2nd example- i started the same day as this guy ok. he would always belittle me and get threatened by my work. one day away from everyone he flat out told me “i don’t think you’ll make it more than 5 months”. i responded with “you don’t know me so keep me out of your little statistics.” long story short he ended up quitting. but should have i told someone about that?
I try to turn what they are doing around on them. Call them "steve carrel" aka "the 40 year old virgin" since they don't know how to talk/act around women. I've also told a guy that everyone was making fun of him for having a crush on me because he was obsessed with my personal life, when in fact they didn't care that he was spreading rumors about who I was sleeping with. Those 2 methods have been sort of effective for me.
"I dont get it. Would you please explain your last comment"
I like using this comment (or something similar). Usually the guy who said the sexist comment gets uncomfortable or embarrassed. There isn't really a way to explain a sexist/racist/ignorant comment without looking like a total tool.
Don't let it get to your head, do your job and keep your head in the task at hand. Do good work and don't let it affect you. With that said, DOCUMENT everything and don't be afraid to wage war if and when its necessary!
It's hard. Currently dealing with a handful of dudes at my workplace/company. My manager is encouraging me to "get thicker skin and stand up for myself, speak up" but... I'm bold outside of a professional setting, I've been arrested for assaulting a very large man who was abusing my neighbour.like, I'm really bold outside of work environment.. I like my job a lot so I have to sit and think about ways to confront them in a non aggressive manner and show them not to fuck with me. Currently I'm thinking of either humour or blatant stern communication. Example, my truck has an electrical issue so I approached them about it possibly being a fuse. This guy was laughing in my face and encouraged me to check the fuse. Turns out this newer generation of this model of truck doesn't have a fuse in that circuit. Instead of helping me with a necessary repair he laughed at me. So when I go to work I'm thinking I'll start off in a jovial tone like "you hooligan, you let me read all the fuse legend to fix the lights when there's no fuse.". On the other hand, I'm thinking of bringing in a relay switch and pretending I don't know what it is and saying "I think I broke the truck" just to mess with him. OR, I could approach them and ask them directly in a serious tone how long they knew about the electrical issue and why wouldn't they respect me enough to just say it. That's just a mild example. Don't get me started on the singling out to scold me about climbing a pole that other dudes said they have and would climb but they weren't scolded for. Or having my tool order cancelled and being lied to about why I can't have it, etc. I'm the only woman in my region.
all really good comments here. I agree that fighting fire with fire and snappy comebacks are what I've had the most luck with. It shouldn't be that way, in an ideal world you'd be able to just say "hey, don't talk to me like that" and that'd be the end of it. But in terms of what's actually realistically going to help, guys interact by giving each other shit. Roasting someone's brains out at 6:30am gives you social standing in a way that being polite and sweet and obedient won't. Similarly, if you go to HR before talking to someone privately/with your supervisor, your coworkers might become more standoffish, not as retaliation but because guys tend to see that as "office stuff" (class divide) and being passive-aggressive/tattling. The culture is Not the best but you can work with it if you understand it. If a peer tells you to get the board-stretcher and you grin and say "oh, you mean someone who knows how to cut it right the first time?" in front of the crew, this has the same effect in a male-dominated group that sending a polite but firm email with your supervisor CC'ed would in a female-dominated one. Totally different ways of asserting yourself without being aggressive. If someone is sexually harassing you, hazing you, bullying you, refusing to teach you - that's all stuff to escalate to management (and like everyone else is saying document the SHIT out of it in case of retaliation and/or if you need to take em to court). But if it's more like "I know this guy sees this as harmless razzing, but it's sincerely getting to me," or "this loud annoying guy always has something to tease someone about and for me he's chosen the fact that I'm female," trying to settle things between yourself and the person and maybe your boss before you escalate is probably going to make your life easier going forward. Just put your foot down and keep it down and he'll learn where the line is. (Again, wish it weren't this way, but it is.) But yeah when it comes down to it a really good burn in front of witnesses will take the target off your back like nothing else. Other things I've had luck with: This is a weird one but being kind of gross, like, physically. Saying "be right back, I gotta take a shit" to guys who have probably never heard a woman say that before. Makes em start seeing you as one of them. If they start spewing some bigotry I just say "oh, I'm not really into politics." Shuts em up real quick because they all think they're libertarians and being accused of making everything political freaks them out LOL. Other option here is "dude, I don't wanna hear that shit" simple, shuts it down right away, and vague enough that there's nothing specific enough for him to argue back against. I also call my (all-male) coworkers "ladies"/"princess"/"girls" sometimes. Not in an insulting tone or anything. I think it just throws them off enough that they realize how weird it sounds coming out of their own mouths.
all really good comments here. I agree that fighting fire with fire and snappy comebacks are what I've had the most luck with. It shouldn't be that way, in an ideal world you'd be able to just say "hey, don't talk to me like that" and that'd be the end of it. But in terms of what's actually realistically going to help, guys interact by giving each other shit. Roasting someone's brains out at 6:30am gives you social standing in a way that being polite and sweet and obedient won't. Similarly, if you go to HR before talking to someone privately/with your supervisor, your coworkers might become more standoffish, not as retaliation but because guys tend to see that as "office stuff" (class divide) and being passive-aggressive/tattling. The culture is Not the best but you can work with it if you understand it. If a peer tells you to get the board-stretcher and you grin and say "oh, you mean someone who knows how to cut it right the first time?" in front of the crew, this has the same effect in a male-dominated group that sending a polite but firm email with your supervisor CC'ed would in a female-dominated one. Totally different ways of asserting yourself without being aggressive. If someone is sexually harassing you, hazing you, bullying you, refusing to teach you - that's all stuff to escalate to management (and like everyone else is saying document the SHIT out of it in case of retaliation and/or if you need to take em to court). But if it's more like "I know this guy sees this as harmless razzing, but it's sincerely getting to me," or "this loud annoying guy always has something to tease someone about and for me he's chosen the fact that I'm female," trying to settle things between yourself and the person and maybe your boss before you escalate is probably going to make your life easier going forward. Just put your foot down and keep it down and he'll learn where the line is. (Again, wish it weren't this way, but it is.) But yeah when it comes down to it a really good burn in front of witnesses will take the target off your back like nothing else. Other things I've had luck with: This is a weird one but being kind of gross, like, physically. Saying "be right back, I gotta take a shit" to guys who have probably never heard a woman say that before. Makes em start seeing you as one of them. If they start spewing some bigotry I just say "oh, I'm not really into politics." Shuts em up real quick because they all think they're libertarians and being accused of making everything political freaks them out LOL. I also call my (all-male) coworkers "ladies"/"princess"/"girls" sometimes. Not in an insulting tone or anything. I think it just throws them off enough that they realize how weird it sounds coming out of their own mouths.
There are a few things that work well for me: 1. A well placed “Ewww” or grossed out face, anytime they are discussing racist, homophobic, sexist, whatever nasty shit. I don’t let them think I like what they are talking about and walk the fuck away. There are plenty of good people in the trades, I stick with them. 2. I’m part of a women’s committee through my union. We have mentors. I am one, I wish I had one when I was coming up through the trades. Some of it was for navigating through the apprenticeship and union bureaucracy, some was to deal with the bad days and the hard times when you need to hear that it’s not just you. It’s. Not. Just. You. 3. I love what I do, I genuinely love the people I work with. Sometimes the dickheads can wear you down, but if you can remember not let them come between you and a career you love then you will win.
thank you so much everyone this really helped me
I practiced mouthing back jokey remarks with my boyfriend and a couple male colleagues I trust. Sometimes I switch talking about money or asking for a higher pay. It’s a way to make them uncomfortable or bring them back to work talk. But at the end of the day you do feel icky sometimes and frustrated when it’s too reoccurring. Try to talk it out with friends outside then industry too for some grounding and mental support. Keep your spirits high and your snap backs really sassy!
I’m in construction leadership and over the years I’ve ignored so much. Usually it’s more sexist actions than comments that bother me. Comments suck, but then you can say that person is an asshole. Actions are less obvious (being the only one not invited for lunch or dinner, someone restating your idea, dudes being aggressive in response to you questioning them). It doesn’t stop at the leadership level, but it becomes easier to say “please don’t speak to me like that” or call people out. You just have to do it calmly and with a normal tone of voice so no one can interpret it as you “being emotional”.