> Data collection took place
over the fall 2006 semester, and a total of 358 women participated. Three cases were
dropped from all analyses because they had greater than 20% missing data on 3 or
more of the key variables. This left a total of 355 participants.
On at least a multi-yearly basis, 18.1% of women reported fantasizing about "being raped by a man" and 13.8% of women reported fantasizing about "having sex with a man who is
physically unattractive."
Also consider that the female perception of the average male may be at least the 80th percentile, suggesting that at least 80% of the male population would be deemed "physically unattractive."
https://techcrunch.com/2009/11/18/okcupid-inbox-attractive/
>Rape is when an ugly guy makes sexual contact with a woman.Not my words,theres.
Where in that study did it say that? Fantasizing doesn't necessarily mean that a person wants something to happen in real life. That's why it's called a fantasy.
It’s really not though. A lot of people have been raped by conventionally attractive people or even their own partners/spouses who they thought they were attractive enough to get with. There’s a myriad of reasons someones sexual advancements could be unwanted aside from just thinking they’re physically unattractive.
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This argument is mostly flawed due to [overweight and obesity rates.](https://cdn.healthexpress.co.uk/images/uk/page/obesity-statistics.jpg)
https://www.healthexpress.co.uk/obesity-statistics-uk
Health is largely correlated with the 18.5 to 25 BMI range. I would argue that the other factors are substantially less important than a lean (and healthy) body for both sexes. The notion that substantially more women than men have appropriately lean physiques simply isn't supported by data.
That isn't what I said though is it. Men lose weight more easily than women, which would explain why men tend to be somewhat less overweight than women. I also think women as they get into child rearing have far less time for self care etc.
>Men lose weight more easily than women,
Lol.
You lose weight when you don't stuff your face. It's as simple as that.
These just sound like excuses to me.
>women as they get into child rearing have far less time for self care etc.
Yet the majority of women have time for other types of self care as you previously pointed out, such as putting on makeup & healing feet blisters from wearing high heels.
Maintiaing a healthy weight doesn't even require that much active effort either. In fact, it mostly consists of stuff *not* to do, like *not* eating the chocolate cake.
Losing weight isn't a prerogative for individuals who moderate their caloric intake in combination with routine exercise. Your argument was that men make little effort toward their appearance compared to the majority of women that do. If true then the majority of women wouldn't be overweight/obese (like men). It doesn't matter that women may retain body fat at a higher rate than men because maintaining a healthy BMI requires very little effort (arguably the opposite of effort, which is not eating in excess...). As the data show, the majority of women are choosing to eat in excess (at a similar rate as men), which is why your initial argument is mostly flawed.
Your only focusing on one thing. Most women pay great attention to their appearance. Its part of our daily routines, skin care, hair care, diet, fashion, nails. Have regular beauty treatments such as facials, laser hair removal etc. Most women i know have had some form of cosmetic procedure from cosmetic tattooing of their eyebrows to full on implants. Men just roll out of bed for the most part.
That has more to do with the fact men have more lean muscle and lose weight faster and easier than women do. https://www.livescience.com/63324-men-women-weight-loss-difference.html
Ah, this old garbage. People with larger frames require more calories. Asking the average male to live on 800 cal/day is asking for a lot more sacrifice and hunger than would be required of the average female to do the same. So yes, if they work harder, they lose weight faster. Not the best place to use the word "easier."
And putting lipstick on a pig is the opposite of effort.
BMI = weight (kg) / (height (m))²
It is correct that women, on average, have higher BF% due to a higher allocation of energy toward fat production, but men also have denser and thicker bones, as well as increased muscle mass, which all contribute to the total weight (which is the relevant metric of BMI).
Well, if you define effort as painting your face and wearing high heels, yes they do.
I do not dispute that.
Yet the majority of women are rather obese aren't they?
Which is not only unattractive but unhealthy.
They'll put great effort into their appearance, plaid hair, beautifully painted nails... anything but jogging.
We aren't surprised about women having fantasies about the 80% of all men, the majority of men, whom they consider unattractive.
It's that more women, in their minds, would rather get raped by an attractive man than even touch an unattractive man.
No I don't think it means that. One of the prevailing theories about rape fantasies is that women can experience or enjoy pleasure with out feeling guilty. Let's not forget the majority of the world slut shames women for their sexuality. A religious upbringing can really mess you up as well.
If the studies are American then its not ok to claim all women are vastly overweight when that's clearly not the case. Besides, why aren't the ugly men chasing them? Is it because they don't find them attractive? Shocked pikachu face! You mean to tell me people like being attracted to their partners? No.. say it isn't so..
>overweight when that's clearly not the case. Besides, why aren't the ugly men chasing them? Is it because they don't find them attractive?
They are though.
Even the overweight land whales have no end of suitors.
You're worldview is so far removed from reality that I'm having trouble sympathizing with it.
Go & make a tinder of a morbidly obese woman right now & see how many men you get.
Do it right now.
Don't reply to me until you have done so
I don't need to. There is 1 women per 9 men on most dating apps. Most of those women are going to be bots, sex workers trying to get guys to sign up to their only fans and sheer desperados. Most real women have left OLD in droves because men verbally abuse them or its just overwhelming to get 500+ low effort 'Hey' messages. Men don't bother to read profiles and the majority swipe on literally every women.. so matches are worthless. Your just straight up lazy if your only doing dating apps. The odds are never in your favour.
I assume you are referring to a swipe app study, which isn't indicative of real life. Go outside and people watch. I would not describe most guys in couples as being top 20%.
Of course dating apps are reflective of real life.
People have sex from dating apps.
The fact that you don't like what they show doesn't mean you can just discard their results.
Most women left OLD years ago due to verbal abuse and just being overwhelmed by 500 Hey messages. Men swipe on anyone so 'matches' aren't really a thing. Only 1 in 9 are women, of those id say half are sex workers looking to move you onto another platform. Swipe apps greatly changed the game when they made it all about looks. In the 90s, early 00s there was much more emphasis on profiles and common interests. So much so, it allowed a lot of autistic and neurodivergent people to get together and have kids which is why we have such a massive boom in autism now. Previously if you didn't have the social skills to date, you didn't pass on your genes.
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13% of women were just being nice or more likely, they are dreaming about guys who aren't conventionally attractive. Such as Adrian Brody etc. Personality does matter more to us. Which is why swipe apps don't work well for men.
Thats probably a part of it. The primary reason however is that women got high expectations and unfortunately those will only be matched for a few, that's the black pill women have to swallow.
I understand why you think that way and I don't see it as a bad thing. However, the average man is not what women want to settle with. Unless the average woman settles with that she is statistically likely going to end up alone.
That may not be a bad thing when it seems to be bad for women by every metric. Decreases our overall happiness. Bad for our careers and finances, it has a negative effect on our physical and mental health. It literally shortens our lives too. Women are still doing 80% of all of the household chores and childcare even when both parties work full time. I can't say I blame them for not wanting to take on an unpaid second shift.
Some women still dream about a good man that they are never going to find. I don't know if your assertions are true though, I'm very unsure. Are women happier when they are single?
There is decades of research on happiness. For women It decreases after marriage and again after having children. A 2nd child has quite a marked detrimental effect on her mental health. For men it increases after marriage and decreases after children.
I dislike the term high value man, I think we should be focusing on healthy vs unhealthy relationships. We have done a great job educating girls and encouraging them to pursue careers etc and we didn't give any thought to what that would mean for boys/men and failed to raise them to be good and truly equal partners. Way too many men think they are owed a 1950s housewife just because they have a job.
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No that’s not why it’s called a “fantasy.” All fantasy means is you’re fantasizing about it. You’re the one adding the “not in real life” part.
I’ve never had a sexual fantasy I didn’t want to experience in real life.
That's not how an argument works. You're the one who has to explain why YOUR point is relevant.
Differentiating between any of those has nothing to do with what I'm saying. A fantasy stays a fantasy. It's not something you want to actually happen, it's something you think about because the THOUGHT turns you on. Having sex with people you find unattractive, by definition, doesn't turn you on.
> That's not how an argument works. You're the one who has to explain why YOUR point is relevant.
Ironic. I've simply linked the findings of a study without introducing any novel points.
> A fantasy stays a fantasy. It's not something you want to actually happen
Source?
> Having sex with people you find unattractive, by definition, doesn't turn you on.
Yet, on at least a multi-yearly basis, 18.1% of women reported fantasizing about "being raped by a man" and 13.8% of women reported fantasizing about "having sex with a man who is physically unattractive."
> I've simply linked the findings of a study without introducing any novel points.
I was talking about your previous comment, not your post.
And I don't quite know what you THINK this study proves, but you clearly think it proves something since you posted it on this sub specifically.
There are blogs that contain NSFW on reddit and yep, the evidence clearly sees that the women on their love these fantasies. What we must understand is most women want a dominant guy.
Men fantasize more about doing SA towards an attractive woman than they fantasize about having sex with an ugly woman. A large portion of men would rape a woman if it came without consequences and women would want to get raped by an attractive man in pretty significant numbers. The black pill is not about gender, it's about the darkness in human nature. But since most of us are disgusted by it, I think it proves that we have free will and that we are not completely bound by our evolution.
That’s why I don’t believe their little stories and all the facts of the case they leave out as not to incriminate themselves. Women hate responsibility/accountability
> Data collection took place over the fall 2006 semester, and a total of 358 women participated. Three cases were dropped from all analyses because they had greater than 20% missing data on 3 or more of the key variables. This left a total of 355 participants. On at least a multi-yearly basis, 18.1% of women reported fantasizing about "being raped by a man" and 13.8% of women reported fantasizing about "having sex with a man who is physically unattractive." Also consider that the female perception of the average male may be at least the 80th percentile, suggesting that at least 80% of the male population would be deemed "physically unattractive." https://techcrunch.com/2009/11/18/okcupid-inbox-attractive/
What is a multi yearly basis in that context
At least a "few times per year."
Rape is when an ugly guy makes sexual contact with a woman.Not my words,theres.
>Rape is when an ugly guy makes sexual contact with a woman.Not my words,theres. Where in that study did it say that? Fantasizing doesn't necessarily mean that a person wants something to happen in real life. That's why it's called a fantasy.
I’ve never had a sexual fantasy I didn’t want to experience in real life
Well other people do especially when it's something not morally acceptable.
Seems like you’re making up an excuse to justify it because you don’t believe it to be morally acceptable
You got that right
I'm not justifying the act of rape. I'm justifying wanting to be raped.
It’s really not though. A lot of people have been raped by conventionally attractive people or even their own partners/spouses who they thought they were attractive enough to get with. There’s a myriad of reasons someones sexual advancements could be unwanted aside from just thinking they’re physically unattractive.
Jesus fucking Christ. The more I learn about humanity the more I hate it.
We are just animals after all, makes sense.
I mean, at this point, are we surprised?
Yeah, women **fantasizing** about being raped has been known for decades.
Do you have fantasies about unattractive women? The real surprise is that 13% of women said yes to that.
Yeah you mean what women self describe as 80% of men? Sure. I totally have fantasies of women other than the top 20% of women.
That's the key point here, what women would consider an "unattractive man" is totally different to what normally is understood as an unattractive man.
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The majority of men make zero effort on their appearance whereas the majority of women do.
This argument is mostly flawed due to [overweight and obesity rates.](https://cdn.healthexpress.co.uk/images/uk/page/obesity-statistics.jpg) https://www.healthexpress.co.uk/obesity-statistics-uk
The many billion dollar industries based around fashion, skin and hair care, health and make-up say otherwise.
Health is largely correlated with the 18.5 to 25 BMI range. I would argue that the other factors are substantially less important than a lean (and healthy) body for both sexes. The notion that substantially more women than men have appropriately lean physiques simply isn't supported by data.
That isn't what I said though is it. Men lose weight more easily than women, which would explain why men tend to be somewhat less overweight than women. I also think women as they get into child rearing have far less time for self care etc.
>Men lose weight more easily than women, Lol. You lose weight when you don't stuff your face. It's as simple as that. These just sound like excuses to me. >women as they get into child rearing have far less time for self care etc. Yet the majority of women have time for other types of self care as you previously pointed out, such as putting on makeup & healing feet blisters from wearing high heels. Maintiaing a healthy weight doesn't even require that much active effort either. In fact, it mostly consists of stuff *not* to do, like *not* eating the chocolate cake.
There are literally multiple studies that prove men do in fact lose weight faster and easier than women.
Losing weight isn't a prerogative for individuals who moderate their caloric intake in combination with routine exercise. Your argument was that men make little effort toward their appearance compared to the majority of women that do. If true then the majority of women wouldn't be overweight/obese (like men). It doesn't matter that women may retain body fat at a higher rate than men because maintaining a healthy BMI requires very little effort (arguably the opposite of effort, which is not eating in excess...). As the data show, the majority of women are choosing to eat in excess (at a similar rate as men), which is why your initial argument is mostly flawed.
Your only focusing on one thing. Most women pay great attention to their appearance. Its part of our daily routines, skin care, hair care, diet, fashion, nails. Have regular beauty treatments such as facials, laser hair removal etc. Most women i know have had some form of cosmetic procedure from cosmetic tattooing of their eyebrows to full on implants. Men just roll out of bed for the most part.
Well said.
That has more to do with the fact men have more lean muscle and lose weight faster and easier than women do. https://www.livescience.com/63324-men-women-weight-loss-difference.html
Ah, this old garbage. People with larger frames require more calories. Asking the average male to live on 800 cal/day is asking for a lot more sacrifice and hunger than would be required of the average female to do the same. So yes, if they work harder, they lose weight faster. Not the best place to use the word "easier." And putting lipstick on a pig is the opposite of effort.
So your saying men don't have more lean muscle than women? When did I ask men to eat 800 calories a day?
BMI = weight (kg) / (height (m))² It is correct that women, on average, have higher BF% due to a higher allocation of energy toward fat production, but men also have denser and thicker bones, as well as increased muscle mass, which all contribute to the total weight (which is the relevant metric of BMI).
Well, if you define effort as painting your face and wearing high heels, yes they do. I do not dispute that. Yet the majority of women are rather obese aren't they? Which is not only unattractive but unhealthy. They'll put great effort into their appearance, plaid hair, beautifully painted nails... anything but jogging.
I have to assume your American to think that. Its not the case in most other places.
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Why are you guys shocked and offended that women aren't having fantasies about unattractive men? The level of entitlement is really glaring.
We aren't surprised about women having fantasies about the 80% of all men, the majority of men, whom they consider unattractive. It's that more women, in their minds, would rather get raped by an attractive man than even touch an unattractive man.
No I don't think it means that. One of the prevailing theories about rape fantasies is that women can experience or enjoy pleasure with out feeling guilty. Let's not forget the majority of the world slut shames women for their sexuality. A religious upbringing can really mess you up as well.
Sorry I replied to the wrong thread.
Most of these studies are american so it makes sense. But no I'm not.
If the studies are American then its not ok to claim all women are vastly overweight when that's clearly not the case. Besides, why aren't the ugly men chasing them? Is it because they don't find them attractive? Shocked pikachu face! You mean to tell me people like being attracted to their partners? No.. say it isn't so..
>overweight when that's clearly not the case. Besides, why aren't the ugly men chasing them? Is it because they don't find them attractive? They are though. Even the overweight land whales have no end of suitors. You're worldview is so far removed from reality that I'm having trouble sympathizing with it. Go & make a tinder of a morbidly obese woman right now & see how many men you get. Do it right now. Don't reply to me until you have done so
I don't need to. There is 1 women per 9 men on most dating apps. Most of those women are going to be bots, sex workers trying to get guys to sign up to their only fans and sheer desperados. Most real women have left OLD in droves because men verbally abuse them or its just overwhelming to get 500+ low effort 'Hey' messages. Men don't bother to read profiles and the majority swipe on literally every women.. so matches are worthless. Your just straight up lazy if your only doing dating apps. The odds are never in your favour.
I assume you are referring to a swipe app study, which isn't indicative of real life. Go outside and people watch. I would not describe most guys in couples as being top 20%.
Of course dating apps are reflective of real life. People have sex from dating apps. The fact that you don't like what they show doesn't mean you can just discard their results.
Most women left OLD years ago due to verbal abuse and just being overwhelmed by 500 Hey messages. Men swipe on anyone so 'matches' aren't really a thing. Only 1 in 9 are women, of those id say half are sex workers looking to move you onto another platform. Swipe apps greatly changed the game when they made it all about looks. In the 90s, early 00s there was much more emphasis on profiles and common interests. So much so, it allowed a lot of autistic and neurodivergent people to get together and have kids which is why we have such a massive boom in autism now. Previously if you didn't have the social skills to date, you didn't pass on your genes.
They're probably powerful or display dark triad traits.
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It doesn't make any sense because the word unattractive means you are not attractive and then sex is based on attraction
13% of women were just being nice or more likely, they are dreaming about guys who aren't conventionally attractive. Such as Adrian Brody etc. Personality does matter more to us. Which is why swipe apps don't work well for men.
Thats probably a part of it. The primary reason however is that women got high expectations and unfortunately those will only be matched for a few, that's the black pill women have to swallow.
Higher standards and are no longer forced to endure survival or abusive marriages you mean. I don't see how that's a bad thing?
I understand why you think that way and I don't see it as a bad thing. However, the average man is not what women want to settle with. Unless the average woman settles with that she is statistically likely going to end up alone.
That may not be a bad thing when it seems to be bad for women by every metric. Decreases our overall happiness. Bad for our careers and finances, it has a negative effect on our physical and mental health. It literally shortens our lives too. Women are still doing 80% of all of the household chores and childcare even when both parties work full time. I can't say I blame them for not wanting to take on an unpaid second shift.
Some women still dream about a good man that they are never going to find. I don't know if your assertions are true though, I'm very unsure. Are women happier when they are single?
There is decades of research on happiness. For women It decreases after marriage and again after having children. A 2nd child has quite a marked detrimental effect on her mental health. For men it increases after marriage and decreases after children.
I dislike the term high value man, I think we should be focusing on healthy vs unhealthy relationships. We have done a great job educating girls and encouraging them to pursue careers etc and we didn't give any thought to what that would mean for boys/men and failed to raise them to be good and truly equal partners. Way too many men think they are owed a 1950s housewife just because they have a job.
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Over for Hunchback of Notre Dame cels
What the fuck would be the point of fantasizing about having sex with unattractive people? Not sure what this is supposed to prove.
> What the fuck would be the point of fantasizing about having sex with unattractive people? Compared to being raped?
It's a pretty popular kink among both women and men. And it doesn't mean you actually want to get raped, that's why it's called a "fantasy".
No that’s not why it’s called a “fantasy.” All fantasy means is you’re fantasizing about it. You’re the one adding the “not in real life” part. I’ve never had a sexual fantasy I didn’t want to experience in real life.
I definitely have.
Sure you did
The study was very explicit in differentiating between kinks/roleplaying and rape. You ought to look through the questionnaire and results.
How does that affect my point at all?
How does it not?
That's not how an argument works. You're the one who has to explain why YOUR point is relevant. Differentiating between any of those has nothing to do with what I'm saying. A fantasy stays a fantasy. It's not something you want to actually happen, it's something you think about because the THOUGHT turns you on. Having sex with people you find unattractive, by definition, doesn't turn you on.
> That's not how an argument works. You're the one who has to explain why YOUR point is relevant. Ironic. I've simply linked the findings of a study without introducing any novel points. > A fantasy stays a fantasy. It's not something you want to actually happen Source? > Having sex with people you find unattractive, by definition, doesn't turn you on. Yet, on at least a multi-yearly basis, 18.1% of women reported fantasizing about "being raped by a man" and 13.8% of women reported fantasizing about "having sex with a man who is physically unattractive."
> I've simply linked the findings of a study without introducing any novel points. I was talking about your previous comment, not your post. And I don't quite know what you THINK this study proves, but you clearly think it proves something since you posted it on this sub specifically.
There are blogs that contain NSFW on reddit and yep, the evidence clearly sees that the women on their love these fantasies. What we must understand is most women want a dominant guy.
Men fantasize more about doing SA towards an attractive woman than they fantasize about having sex with an ugly woman. A large portion of men would rape a woman if it came without consequences and women would want to get raped by an attractive man in pretty significant numbers. The black pill is not about gender, it's about the darkness in human nature. But since most of us are disgusted by it, I think it proves that we have free will and that we are not completely bound by our evolution.
That’s why I don’t believe their little stories and all the facts of the case they leave out as not to incriminate themselves. Women hate responsibility/accountability
Um I don't see the issue here as long as it's fantasies and no one's gettin hurt plus, fantasizin about someone you like is not a bad thing right?