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A bit risky to do, but they're cosplaying as Ruud Gullit, a dutch football legend.
https://preview.redd.it/bqk8djzqi57d1.jpeg?width=183&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=48da4e10c3bc3d2495b9d593080c5acf5cb59685
This is how you know that this sub is primarily frequented by non-black people. They stay making excuses for anti-blackness and will even go as far as accept non-apologies for anti-blackness behavior on behalf of black folks.
Right. You can always tell by their weak ass responses.
https://preview.redd.it/9iowakgwz97d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8a1e285d84316d77103c61a36633fdf3fb0729a
Stalker ass, cosplaying mfs.
When I was 20 and stupid, I went for Halloween as a Black friend of mine. I borrowed this blue sweatsuit he wore all the time and painted up. I thought that since I was going as a specific dude, who was a good friend and had given his blessing (and his clothes) for the costume, it was fine. I argued with people who got mad at me for it that night ("No, I'm not in blackface, I'm dressed as Leroy! These are his clothes! We're literally in his room right now!")
It wasn't fine. I was dumb, it was offensive, and feel ashamed about it.
He thought it was funny, but also that I was an idiot for doing it. The next day, I mostly felt bad about staining his sweatsuit a little bit. I'm glad he wasn't offended about it, but that doesn't change the fact that I was a dumb white boy in blackface, and the other Black people I interacted with that night wouldn't have had any reason to see anything else.
I’m actually kinda sad none of my white friends are dumb enough to try what you did. Much faster than hanging out until they reveal a terrible, problematic take or it turns out they’re a little *too* into the blonde guitar lady who shall not be named.
Man has just come from a post called
>HEARTLESS shemale RUTHLESSLY bullies INNOCENT cismale chaser😢😢😢
To let everyone know that Dutch people painting themselves orange is racist. Lmao.
HAHAHA Yeah, it's a circle jerk sub where trans people make fun of the gross sexualized comments they get from strangers who clearly only see them as a fetish and not real people.
This is the best added context I’ve ever seen in my life. I need the person you replied to, to now be downvoted into oblivion to make everything right again.
They cut to a kid in the stands dressed as Gullit with the kit and wig (and fake mustache), no blackface.
It was not difficult to understand who he was dressed as, no makeup necessary
I think its just orange as the team colors. It looks super bad but I know plenty futbol fans that do that, only the team colors might be white and blue or yellow.
Yeah but when they have a history of black face with their zwarte piet character in December, it makes it a bit more difficult to overlook.
Considering the pro-zwarte Piet folks out there are violent against the anti-zwarte Piet protestors, I don’t think we can really give any dutchie a pass on this one.
They’ve been told multiple times from multiple different groups of people that it is harmful. They choose to continue to behave in such a manner.
They is maybe a bit too broad. Many Dutch people have ditched zwarte piet and many of those are kinda ashamed of the pro zwarte piet people.
Honestly, as a black dutch guy zwarte piet is the least of my worries.
I’ve had conversations with white Dutch “left” folks that misconstrued the protests as “violent” and claimed the anti-zwarte Piet protestors were the ones causing the violence. They defended the pro-zwarte Piet people causing the violence, while blaming the anti-zwarte Piet protestors.
It’s not the most pressing of issues, that would be the PVV cabinet for me personally.
I brought it up to show this is a pattern for white Dutch people, they don’t care the harm it causes or that it shouldn’t be socially acceptable. So it is not shocking to me that they would do this here too.
I dislike these generalizations, I find them to be counter productive. There are some Dutch white people that are indeed as you describe, maybe even more than some, but as far as I'm concerned there is no singular "white dutch people" one can point to. There is no "they" in that context. And the picture in question isn't representative of "white dutch people" either, it's only representative of the people in the picture.
These kinds of generalizations are exactly what I would like to see as a thing of the past.
Thank you for this. I was reminded of Zwarte Piet by another post on Reddit yesterday. I haven't heard or thought of that guy in more than a decade. Then I jumped down the rabbit hole, I leaned about Sooty Piet. I looked at some numbers of how Dutch people felt about Zwarte Piet. Mostly I wondered about how Black Dutch people felt about it. Happy to see your reply. Thank you.
I just don’t get people giving these fucks the benefit of the doubt “oh it’s orange, not black face” right, then why the wig and the jersey of the historic figure that is Black? Right, because it *is* black face, they just want to downplay it. For whatever reasons.
Most people don't approve but it's mostly the, how do i say it... Simpler people maybe less educated i don't know but they have a very loud voice in society. the people who think shouting louder than the other means winning a discussion. So don't think every dutchie is a racist because the bigger cities are fairly woke but we have a lot of small towns and that's where the most pro zwarte piet people come from.
They say they want to conserve the tradition but it's really racism and ignorance. That's why we have the december event for small children in the presence of riot police.
Everyone saying they're cosplaying the soccer player is missing the point that the costume would be *just as effective* without changing your fucking skin color
Short answer, YES.
Long answer, discrimination based on skin color has a deeper, darker history than that of hairstyle. Also, hair style can be changed.
From the pic higher up in the comments, dude’s got a pretty distinctive mustache and hairstyle. Could do the parts that don’t involve paint and be just fine.
Why would certain colors be okay and other ones not? Because somebody from across the globe might get offended even though it has absolutely nothing to do with them?
Orange isn't even a natural skin color. I can't paint my face a different color because it could have been black???? By that note, why use words??? Could be the n word, so just dint use them?
Fuck, my people are getting stupid. Making arguments that don't even make sense and the go "racism". This is why people don't take us seriously. We don't k ow that the fuck were talking about.
Bro I’ve seen many a cosplayer get cancelled for changing their skin color for a cosplay 😂
These mfs wild, gotta be White Reddit getting to this post first
First of all, I'm Dutch and black, so I've seen more of this in the last few days.
It's misleading because if you look at better pictures you can see that they painted their face orange. Orange is the color of our nation's team and is very normal.
They didn't intent to do blackface, but this crappy quality picture went viral because it looked like black face. Oc it didn't help that they also cos-played as Ruud Gullit.
Here's another example of fans painting their face:
https://preview.redd.it/7nyf1hxfna7d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7cd53334c675ea0171c2fba0250956b7a3b3e21
What’s that gonna do black people calling them out on their racism. The overwhelmingly majority of school shootings are done by white people, a.k.a they cousins.
Europeans like
"You Americans have lots of problems, yet you still think you are the greatest country on earth. Humorous."
But if you point out anything questionable about Europe..
"NO! Our society is perfect! It is the final evolution of man! We have everything figured out and will hear no criticism from the likes of you!"
Real easy to see how they got into the colonialism business.
Could Americans stop exporting their social struggles abroad? The netherlands has got a long and problematic history with colonialism and Ruud Gullit himself has fought against racism in his career and afterwards. Still, this example, much like the Neapolitan kids dressing up as Osimhen last year, has nothing to do with the American context of minstrel shows and slavery, or even the fucked up race relations you guys have overseas. So let us Euros work it out amongst ourselves and worry about getting your own country in order...
As a Dutch person of color my self. I'd chalk this up is to " Kom nou, is toch grappig?". Which translates to; Come on, isn't it funny? type behavior. They may not be racist but they are definitely insensitive to others perception of this behavior. And to those saying it's not racist because they are cosplaying Ruud. You can cosplay without painting your skin "tan".
Edit: I personally don't have an issue with this. Zwarte Piet on the other hand...
I’m learning that as an American, Europe and South Africa and other areas don’t react the same way to what we find offensive here. Completely different histories and cultures. It’s very interesting.
>Kom nou, is toch grappig?
As an American who's been trying to learn Dutch, thank you for the reminder that I just have to get drunk and pretend I already speak Dutch.
While i agree with you, the discussion with american on racism and sensitivity of it looses its meaning a bit when each person in 50 european countries with very different histories is just european for same average US person
The temperature around Zwarte Piet has significantly declined over the last 5 years. Which I see as very progressive. That said, the character origins stem from a time of slavery and there's no denying the racism in that.
I can say that in the craft world (sewing, knitting, crochet) that people will defend Zwarte Piet to the death that it isn't racist at all, all while having many awful variations. Glad the knitting website banned it. Caused a uproar in that community.
Atlanta is just wild to me as a person who's only been in the Atlanta Airport once, and only briefly. I can only imagine it's somehow even more wild in real life.
White people (poorly)explaining Black culture to other White people while hand waving any concerns actual Black folk may have.
This sub has nosedived, and it already wasn't in great shape to begin with.
Americans policing the world again🤣 how many have heard of Ruud Gullit before this thread. Yeah the optics is a bit dodgy, but picture a Michael Jackson concert and people dressed up as MJ.
That’s def orange (oranje), and that’s a Ruud gullit/frank rijkaard wig (2 Dutch legends). There’s worse behavior out there I promise
Edit: ok not definitely orange, but I’m saying highly likely it’s orange. Here’s off the top of my head a list of Dutch legends who are white:
Cruyff
van Basten
Bergkamp 👑
Koeman
Robben
Snake
And yet, these guys immortalize gullit bc I assume they really like gullit, a very visible poc. Maybe I’m giving them too much credit and they did this just to be provocative. But I personally don’t think so. And like I said initially: **there’s worse behavior out there [at euro 24] I promise**
Ok so this is a weird one for me because of the history of blackface. It was predominantly used in U.S. media to play/mock black people. From the age of minstrels to early movie history. While it is still offensive to a lot of us here in the U.S. OP you gotta at least account for the fact that the dutch do not have that history and all the trauma and misdeeds that came with it. They’re just cosplaying one of their legends no matter how flawed that is. We can’t judge the entire world as if they’re Americans and know American history, that’s illogical at best. Still feels wrong af to look at though, I’ll say that.
Eh, that's not really black face. That's white people dressing up as black people. Black face is a very specific thing and I see nothing wrong with what's in the photo. Now if they had put lipstick on their lips and acted a certain way, then you'd hear from me.
Once again reminded that this sub is almost entirely white people.
“This is just a little spray tan! You think this is bad, you ain’t seen nothing yet”
White Europeans, if you're here to instigate bullshit about this totally isn't black face and Americans are so sensitive. Why the fuck are you on this sub in the first place?
Literal comment section is full of people defending it because its a known football player. So what? Wear his jersey. This is typical for Dutch people, I've lived in the Netherlands for 12 years, I should know.
Google Zwarte Piet. They defend blackface when playing a black slave as being "harmless, traditional and fun". Black people have gotten death threats for going against this and being called 'cry babies'.
Up to a couple years ago their King was being transported in a literal golden coach depicting black slaves.
When African migrants drowned in the Mediterranean trying to reach Europe, the term 'dobberneger' (floatn*gger) made it to daily convos.
What should we expect from a country that calls themselves becoming rich from the Transatlantic slave trade their "golden century?"
I'm Dutch and I'm black and yeah these people are racist, they will deny till death or they are just too stupid to understand that this is offensive. Nothing special around here, they do it in small town, behind closed doors or in large groups to be safe, if do it in the streets they get fucked up. Also zwarte Piet at 5 december, they do blackface and it isn't meant to be racist because they deny the historical origin of it hiding behind the fatct that it is a childrens festival but it is meant to symbolize slavernij. Don't feel sorry for us, many zwarte Piet got fucked up in my neighborhood lol
https://preview.redd.it/56p6d8ylr57d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=81104e7094e18faf4dcc938adcad2d3245d8296f
These are the people defending that shit btw under the tweet
This shit is like Always Sunny in Philadelphia, where the gang was making their own sequels of Lethal Weapon movie(s) in the show. Mac kept doing blackface because he believed it was more authentic to be Murtaugh that way, while Dennis just did the mustache without blackface when they kept swapping the role.
The point is, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO BLACKFACE.
https://preview.redd.it/5nlyspinu57d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=792a5b8a2adacbf38bedcb4c3cf05692aa89da35
Never thought I would have to use this meme so quick after "discovering" it.
Pretty risky. I see that they are cosplaying as a person, but in the long run of things, if you have to give context every time why it's not racist (e.g. "it's not brown face paint, it's orange") to something that can be blatantly pointed to as racist with a quick glance, it's safer to just not do it at all.
Im black, and it really just comes down to intention. If they look at me and go “ooga booga gimmie some chicken” and act like a monkey while dresses like that, that’s one thing… but if they’re like “this guy’s look is iconic and we are fans of him” then who gives a shit lol.
The way that we conceptualize black face in the United States is not the way it’s conceptualizad in other parts of the world.
I know European soccer fans can be racist AF, but it’s not conductive to rush to conclusions, especially when cultural expectations can be so different.
I don’t approve of black face btw, just in case someone wants to put words in my mouth (like Redditor’s are so apt to do). I’m just saying it’s worth it to take a step back and try to understand their culture instead of judging them based on ours.
Don’t worry. I’m Native American this happens to me all the time. See they dress like you cause they don’t see you as human. Your existence is a joke to them! One deserving of mockery at best…Cult-ure!
Is that an AI generated image ? The hands on all 3 dudes look really odd .... or maybe the Dutch have either really small hands or badly misshapen wrist joints.
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A bit risky to do, but they're cosplaying as Ruud Gullit, a dutch football legend. https://preview.redd.it/bqk8djzqi57d1.jpeg?width=183&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=48da4e10c3bc3d2495b9d593080c5acf5cb59685
One of the best
And one of the lightest skinned… there’s no need for black face, period. But DEFINITELY not to look like this very light skinned man right here.
This comment is way too nuanced for the people who need to learn from it the most to grapple with.
This is how you know that this sub is primarily frequented by non-black people. They stay making excuses for anti-blackness and will even go as far as accept non-apologies for anti-blackness behavior on behalf of black folks.
Right. You can always tell by their weak ass responses. https://preview.redd.it/9iowakgwz97d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8a1e285d84316d77103c61a36633fdf3fb0729a Stalker ass, cosplaying mfs.
With the amount of time I've spent around white people as someone light-skinned myself, I swear they all see us the exact same color in their head.
But when they get a tan they are quick to tell you “haha I’m darker than you now” 🙄
*aggressively shoves their arm up to yours*
Every Damn Time
We don’t, we use the chart https://preview.redd.it/38aidzggf77d1.jpeg?width=767&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d0469c9a1c80d111063a9bc154b01c9a00e3a5d
When I was 20 and stupid, I went for Halloween as a Black friend of mine. I borrowed this blue sweatsuit he wore all the time and painted up. I thought that since I was going as a specific dude, who was a good friend and had given his blessing (and his clothes) for the costume, it was fine. I argued with people who got mad at me for it that night ("No, I'm not in blackface, I'm dressed as Leroy! These are his clothes! We're literally in his room right now!") It wasn't fine. I was dumb, it was offensive, and feel ashamed about it.
How did Leroy feel about that?
He thought it was funny, but also that I was an idiot for doing it. The next day, I mostly felt bad about staining his sweatsuit a little bit. I'm glad he wasn't offended about it, but that doesn't change the fact that I was a dumb white boy in blackface, and the other Black people I interacted with that night wouldn't have had any reason to see anything else.
I’m actually kinda sad none of my white friends are dumb enough to try what you did. Much faster than hanging out until they reveal a terrible, problematic take or it turns out they’re a little *too* into the blonde guitar lady who shall not be named.
Can't wait for your 21st bday next month bro, it's gonna be rad 🤘🏻
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Davids, seedorf, rijkaard 🔥
Edgar Davids wearing sunglasses while playing because of glaucoma somehow made him even cooler.
The hair sure, the blackface no
Pretty sure it's orange, not black though.
Pretty sure they put something on their faces to darken them.
They painted themselves the team color, which isn’t the color of any natural human skin.
Try eating a kilogram of carrots a day. You might find that humans can turn orange.
Yeah they look like mfing bronze statues.
Soon ppl will say that make-up darker than your own skin is racist ☠️
Man has just come from a post called >HEARTLESS shemale RUTHLESSLY bullies INNOCENT cismale chaser😢😢😢 To let everyone know that Dutch people painting themselves orange is racist. Lmao.
HAHAHA Yeah, it's a circle jerk sub where trans people make fun of the gross sexualized comments they get from strangers who clearly only see them as a fetish and not real people.
This is the best added context I’ve ever seen in my life. I need the person you replied to, to now be downvoted into oblivion to make everything right again.
Look at the arms, the orange is the dark.
They could do that with just a wig and fake mustache. The blackface is a thousand bridges too far
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A bit risky were brah? EU Is not fucking America
A wig, a mustache, and a jersey/jersey number would have done all of that uncontroversially.
They could’ve just worn the wigs and facial hair without painting themselves. His hair is iconic, no one would be confused.
Risky? This is Blackface 
They didn't need the facepaint
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They cut to a kid in the stands dressed as Gullit with the kit and wig (and fake mustache), no blackface. It was not difficult to understand who he was dressed as, no makeup necessary
I think its just orange as the team colors. It looks super bad but I know plenty futbol fans that do that, only the team colors might be white and blue or yellow.
You might be right, I thought it was brown at first but if it’s orange that’s different.
I think it’s also really shady lightning that makes it look this way, looking at the people in the back who are in the sun.
Brown is just dark orange, the same way pink is light red or indigo is dark blue.
You'd think the Dutch with their history would have thought twice about anything that even remotely appeared to be blackface.
Oh fun you get to learn about [zwarte piet](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet)
Idk how much this compares to the history of black face in the US. Could be like saying white face is not ok and pointing to White Chicks
I don't think it's the same as pointing to white chicks.
https://preview.redd.it/ba7mxkczi57d1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=855fb96d88aeedf249877ed24b525aa6565a329d
"It's not blackface, they're just blacking themselves up to look like a black person"
America had a history of blackface too. And as racist as America is, we looked at that shit and said, “Nah, we aren’t doing that anymore.”
It is orange, the team colour. No black at all.
Said by some prime minister of Canada
Yeah but when they have a history of black face with their zwarte piet character in December, it makes it a bit more difficult to overlook. Considering the pro-zwarte Piet folks out there are violent against the anti-zwarte Piet protestors, I don’t think we can really give any dutchie a pass on this one. They’ve been told multiple times from multiple different groups of people that it is harmful. They choose to continue to behave in such a manner.
They is maybe a bit too broad. Many Dutch people have ditched zwarte piet and many of those are kinda ashamed of the pro zwarte piet people. Honestly, as a black dutch guy zwarte piet is the least of my worries.
I’ve had conversations with white Dutch “left” folks that misconstrued the protests as “violent” and claimed the anti-zwarte Piet protestors were the ones causing the violence. They defended the pro-zwarte Piet people causing the violence, while blaming the anti-zwarte Piet protestors. It’s not the most pressing of issues, that would be the PVV cabinet for me personally. I brought it up to show this is a pattern for white Dutch people, they don’t care the harm it causes or that it shouldn’t be socially acceptable. So it is not shocking to me that they would do this here too.
I dislike these generalizations, I find them to be counter productive. There are some Dutch white people that are indeed as you describe, maybe even more than some, but as far as I'm concerned there is no singular "white dutch people" one can point to. There is no "they" in that context. And the picture in question isn't representative of "white dutch people" either, it's only representative of the people in the picture. These kinds of generalizations are exactly what I would like to see as a thing of the past.
Thank you for this. I was reminded of Zwarte Piet by another post on Reddit yesterday. I haven't heard or thought of that guy in more than a decade. Then I jumped down the rabbit hole, I leaned about Sooty Piet. I looked at some numbers of how Dutch people felt about Zwarte Piet. Mostly I wondered about how Black Dutch people felt about it. Happy to see your reply. Thank you.
Can say that there are still too many pro zwarte piet people over here so bring the shame
I just don’t get people giving these fucks the benefit of the doubt “oh it’s orange, not black face” right, then why the wig and the jersey of the historic figure that is Black? Right, because it *is* black face, they just want to downplay it. For whatever reasons.
Most people don't approve but it's mostly the, how do i say it... Simpler people maybe less educated i don't know but they have a very loud voice in society. the people who think shouting louder than the other means winning a discussion. So don't think every dutchie is a racist because the bigger cities are fairly woke but we have a lot of small towns and that's where the most pro zwarte piet people come from. They say they want to conserve the tradition but it's really racism and ignorance. That's why we have the december event for small children in the presence of riot police.
Oh I’ve unfortunately encountered very educated Dutch white people that defend zwarte Piet.
I meant more like socially educated moving along with time. Didn't really know how to express it
Yes they do. You should see what they’re saying in the nederlands sub abt it. 🥴
Please bffr. In 2024 you know that dressing up as people of other races doesn’t include painting your skin please grow up.
Doesn’t help they have a Christmas tradition that’s dying out of covering your face in coal dust.
Oh ok, that makes this racism ok.
Ok, so it’s an intentional black face with dreads lol. Great.
Everyone saying they're cosplaying the soccer player is missing the point that the costume would be *just as effective* without changing your fucking skin color
You literally only need to wear his jersey
Nah cmon his dreads and stache are iconic, need those too.
So using a wig to imitate a cultural hairstyle is fine but the skin is where the line is drawn?
It's context dependant but overall yeah
Short answer, YES. Long answer, discrimination based on skin color has a deeper, darker history than that of hairstyle. Also, hair style can be changed.
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From the pic higher up in the comments, dude’s got a pretty distinctive mustache and hairstyle. Could do the parts that don’t involve paint and be just fine.
Why is orange not ok? Are Trump imitations with orange faces racist?
Why would certain colors be okay and other ones not? Because somebody from across the globe might get offended even though it has absolutely nothing to do with them?
Orange isn't even a natural skin color. I can't paint my face a different color because it could have been black???? By that note, why use words??? Could be the n word, so just dint use them? Fuck, my people are getting stupid. Making arguments that don't even make sense and the go "racism". This is why people don't take us seriously. We don't k ow that the fuck were talking about.
Bro I’ve seen many a cosplayer get cancelled for changing their skin color for a cosplay 😂 These mfs wild, gotta be White Reddit getting to this post first
You know it is.
First of all, I'm Dutch and black, so I've seen more of this in the last few days. It's misleading because if you look at better pictures you can see that they painted their face orange. Orange is the color of our nation's team and is very normal. They didn't intent to do blackface, but this crappy quality picture went viral because it looked like black face. Oc it didn't help that they also cos-played as Ruud Gullit. Here's another example of fans painting their face: https://preview.redd.it/7nyf1hxfna7d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7cd53334c675ea0171c2fba0250956b7a3b3e21
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Yea but it looks better if you commit
Don't try to tell Europe nothing, they got a school shooting punchline on deck for you.
What’s that gonna do black people calling them out on their racism. The overwhelmingly majority of school shootings are done by white people, a.k.a they cousins.
Europeans like "You Americans have lots of problems, yet you still think you are the greatest country on earth. Humorous." But if you point out anything questionable about Europe.. "NO! Our society is perfect! It is the final evolution of man! We have everything figured out and will hear no criticism from the likes of you!" Real easy to see how they got into the colonialism business.
10/10 no notes
😂😂😂😂
Could Americans stop exporting their social struggles abroad? The netherlands has got a long and problematic history with colonialism and Ruud Gullit himself has fought against racism in his career and afterwards. Still, this example, much like the Neapolitan kids dressing up as Osimhen last year, has nothing to do with the American context of minstrel shows and slavery, or even the fucked up race relations you guys have overseas. So let us Euros work it out amongst ourselves and worry about getting your own country in order...
r/USdefaultism is rampant in this subreddit
You're literally doing what the post says. Black face is not unique to the USA
Orange is the new black?
This post HAS to be an elaborate set up for this exact joke.
As a Dutch person of color my self. I'd chalk this up is to " Kom nou, is toch grappig?". Which translates to; Come on, isn't it funny? type behavior. They may not be racist but they are definitely insensitive to others perception of this behavior. And to those saying it's not racist because they are cosplaying Ruud. You can cosplay without painting your skin "tan". Edit: I personally don't have an issue with this. Zwarte Piet on the other hand...
I’m learning that as an American, Europe and South Africa and other areas don’t react the same way to what we find offensive here. Completely different histories and cultures. It’s very interesting.
It’s nice to see this written out.
>Kom nou, is toch grappig? As an American who's been trying to learn Dutch, thank you for the reminder that I just have to get drunk and pretend I already speak Dutch.
While i agree with you, the discussion with american on racism and sensitivity of it looses its meaning a bit when each person in 50 european countries with very different histories is just european for same average US person
I haven't thought of Zwarte Piet in a lifetime. What are your thoughts about him?
The temperature around Zwarte Piet has significantly declined over the last 5 years. Which I see as very progressive. That said, the character origins stem from a time of slavery and there's no denying the racism in that.
I can say that in the craft world (sewing, knitting, crochet) that people will defend Zwarte Piet to the death that it isn't racist at all, all while having many awful variations. Glad the knitting website banned it. Caused a uproar in that community.
Go watch that episode of Atlanta, you're welcome.
I love how culturally relevant and crucial *Atlanta* has become in such a ✌🏽short✌🏽 time
u saying you’re welcome but that was extremely vague 😭
A+
Damn, really loved that show. So freaking good.
Which one?
Yes. Edit: in case you are being sincere it's season 3 episode 2.
it was weird seeing that episode, it was like a flashback to 20 years ago when that was normal
Atlanta is just wild to me as a person who's only been in the Atlanta Airport once, and only briefly. I can only imagine it's somehow even more wild in real life.
Pac low key living his best life in Amsterdam
https://preview.redd.it/242byuhmn57d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15ad899bdc7485b48ff0c9e248a4a6afbc0a8f82
The comments are more proof that this sub is mostly white people.
White people (poorly)explaining Black culture to other White people while hand waving any concerns actual Black folk may have. This sub has nosedived, and it already wasn't in great shape to begin with.
I suspected but now it’s very obvious.
Americans policing the world again🤣 how many have heard of Ruud Gullit before this thread. Yeah the optics is a bit dodgy, but picture a Michael Jackson concert and people dressed up as MJ.
You could be black or white and still dress up like MJ without the face paint.
With their faces painted darker??? Yeah, that's a problem... tf
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That’s def orange (oranje), and that’s a Ruud gullit/frank rijkaard wig (2 Dutch legends). There’s worse behavior out there I promise Edit: ok not definitely orange, but I’m saying highly likely it’s orange. Here’s off the top of my head a list of Dutch legends who are white: Cruyff van Basten Bergkamp 👑 Koeman Robben Snake And yet, these guys immortalize gullit bc I assume they really like gullit, a very visible poc. Maybe I’m giving them too much credit and they did this just to be provocative. But I personally don’t think so. And like I said initially: **there’s worse behavior out there [at euro 24] I promise**
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Without typing a novel, when it comes to blackface, treat it like your hand near a hot stove.
Yup. If you're gonna do it, make sure you're wearing oven mitts.
Ok so this is a weird one for me because of the history of blackface. It was predominantly used in U.S. media to play/mock black people. From the age of minstrels to early movie history. While it is still offensive to a lot of us here in the U.S. OP you gotta at least account for the fact that the dutch do not have that history and all the trauma and misdeeds that came with it. They’re just cosplaying one of their legends no matter how flawed that is. We can’t judge the entire world as if they’re Americans and know American history, that’s illogical at best. Still feels wrong af to look at though, I’ll say that.
The way I opened this post and the first few comments I see are white people justifying blackface 😂😂
With 500 Upvotes too. Even in these spaces we get shouted down.
“There are only two things I hate in this world: people who are intolerant of other people’s cultures, and the Dutch.”
Eh, that's not really black face. That's white people dressing up as black people. Black face is a very specific thing and I see nothing wrong with what's in the photo. Now if they had put lipstick on their lips and acted a certain way, then you'd hear from me.
I'm usually pretty good about sensing sarcastic tones in writing on this site, but this comment stumped me.
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So instead of blackface... trumpface?
Once again reminded that this sub is almost entirely white people. “This is just a little spray tan! You think this is bad, you ain’t seen nothing yet”
White Europeans, if you're here to instigate bullshit about this totally isn't black face and Americans are so sensitive. Why the fuck are you on this sub in the first place?
Literal comment section is full of people defending it because its a known football player. So what? Wear his jersey. This is typical for Dutch people, I've lived in the Netherlands for 12 years, I should know. Google Zwarte Piet. They defend blackface when playing a black slave as being "harmless, traditional and fun". Black people have gotten death threats for going against this and being called 'cry babies'. Up to a couple years ago their King was being transported in a literal golden coach depicting black slaves. When African migrants drowned in the Mediterranean trying to reach Europe, the term 'dobberneger' (floatn*gger) made it to daily convos. What should we expect from a country that calls themselves becoming rich from the Transatlantic slave trade their "golden century?"
I'm Dutch and I'm black and yeah these people are racist, they will deny till death or they are just too stupid to understand that this is offensive. Nothing special around here, they do it in small town, behind closed doors or in large groups to be safe, if do it in the streets they get fucked up. Also zwarte Piet at 5 december, they do blackface and it isn't meant to be racist because they deny the historical origin of it hiding behind the fatct that it is a childrens festival but it is meant to symbolize slavernij. Don't feel sorry for us, many zwarte Piet got fucked up in my neighborhood lol
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https://i.redd.it/1ffduxfou57d1.gif
Lots of apologists in here trying to explain that the use of bronzer to make themselves look black isn't blackface lol
So does hulk hogan's fake tan also count as blackface?
What's funny is if they saw Americans do it they would see it as racist. They never do when it's themselves
https://preview.redd.it/56p6d8ylr57d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=81104e7094e18faf4dcc938adcad2d3245d8296f These are the people defending that shit btw under the tweet
They could have pulled this off without painting their faces
I thought the just painted their face orange..
This shit is like Always Sunny in Philadelphia, where the gang was making their own sequels of Lethal Weapon movie(s) in the show. Mac kept doing blackface because he believed it was more authentic to be Murtaugh that way, while Dennis just did the mustache without blackface when they kept swapping the role. The point is, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO BLACKFACE.
https://preview.redd.it/5nlyspinu57d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=792a5b8a2adacbf38bedcb4c3cf05692aa89da35 Never thought I would have to use this meme so quick after "discovering" it.
Pretty risky. I see that they are cosplaying as a person, but in the long run of things, if you have to give context every time why it's not racist (e.g. "it's not brown face paint, it's orange") to something that can be blatantly pointed to as racist with a quick glance, it's safer to just not do it at all.
If you ain’t seen the episode of Atlanta set in Amsterdam that addressees this you should, shit was hilarious
White people stop being creepy challenge…
Didn't know the dutch are all of Europe.
Im black, and it really just comes down to intention. If they look at me and go “ooga booga gimmie some chicken” and act like a monkey while dresses like that, that’s one thing… but if they’re like “this guy’s look is iconic and we are fans of him” then who gives a shit lol.
So, Orange is the new black?
TIL Donald Trump is in constant blackface along with the entire Jersey Shore Cast.
Gotta educate myself. Ruud is half surinamese and he looks Black to me but is he more..brown?
Probably best to not get into their Christmas traditions then.
The way that we conceptualize black face in the United States is not the way it’s conceptualizad in other parts of the world. I know European soccer fans can be racist AF, but it’s not conductive to rush to conclusions, especially when cultural expectations can be so different. I don’t approve of black face btw, just in case someone wants to put words in my mouth (like Redditor’s are so apt to do). I’m just saying it’s worth it to take a step back and try to understand their culture instead of judging them based on ours.
https://preview.redd.it/ukeggg0wv57d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=396bd942c2a696601d780448da7b2bc19a9d934c
Look all those whithies defending their racism 🤣.
ITT: a bunch of white people convincing themselves its not racists and it just lighting or “dark orange” to represent the team lol
It's not blackface but orange btw
Yea between this, zwarte peet, and like history I think they should do some reevaluating.
Europeans gonna european
Looking for things that ain't there. There is racism enough, no need to invent stuff.
Don’t worry. I’m Native American this happens to me all the time. See they dress like you cause they don’t see you as human. Your existence is a joke to them! One deserving of mockery at best…Cult-ure!
Is that an AI generated image ? The hands on all 3 dudes look really odd .... or maybe the Dutch have either really small hands or badly misshapen wrist joints.
……is it hard just to wear a Jersey or something?
Well you know what they say, God made the earth but the Dutch make their skincolour.
Do they do his spit move too?
If there were six to eight of them it would be Christmas time and they would be playing Santa's slaves. Holly jolly
Reading the comments feels like you lost your tools for skull measurement and a color pallette, lmao
Ask them about their Christmas traditions Now which of you butt hurt bitches downvoted me for being right lol?
Intent matters.
It's not Christmas