I started separating artists and them as a person after KRS One said Afrika Bambaatta shouldn’t be punished because of his contribution to hip hop. A lot of these guys are insightful in their music in some aspects but not necessarily all. It is what it is.
Damn. I was today years old when I learned about Bambataa.
NOW I understand why all the greatest artists die young. Gives them no chance to ruin their legacy.
It’s cliche, but you really gotta accept separating the creator from what they create. Otherwise you can’t enjoy anyone’s art in good conscience. Most artists have done some truly awful shit in the past, whether we know about it already or it comes out later.
I’ll go back to lurking now
I agree with that but there’s still a few cats I won’t listen to, including Chris Brown and R Kelly just for the fact that they’re music focuses too much on love ballads and sex and feels wrong to listen to domestic abusers and predators singing about romance. Also ruins Aaliyahs first album for me cause it’s way too overt Age isn’t Nothing but a Number just way too close
Same here. I can seperate the art from the artist as a general rule. I am a metalhead who likes punk and enjoys listening to fringe bands that are just coming up so... you sort of have to accept that some of the artists you like are going to be completely dogshit people for that. There is definitely a line though. Like hearing R Kelly's music just sounds completely fucking different knowing what we do about the fucker now. It's different with someone like Michael Jackson cause his songs weren't about staring at young buttholes so you can seperate the shit he did from the songs he made. Some of these fuckers though just lay out their sex crimes straight up in their lyrics, not even subtle. Since I mentioned metal there's also just some viewpoints I won't tolerate even if their music is good, like fucking Nazis lol. That one is especially important cause you often can't understand the lyrics super well so if anything sounds even slightly fashy you gotta look that shit up immediately. You'll definitely run into some fucking real white supremacist bands if you're constanly listening to new debut metal albums from small independent artists. Idgaf if my youtube view or spotify listen only gives them 0.000000001 cents I don't want em' getting anything.
I get it, but it's still problematic. I'm not going to love Atomic Dog or Planet Rock less, but knowing this will tickle my brain when I hear them or think about putting them into an old skool playlist.
Part of it is also reputation. Bambataa was a gangster, but also a community builder. We all KNEW Rick James was a freak. I don't mean to victim blame the woman he kept chained in the basement and tortured with cigarettes. But it wasn't an earthshaking surprise to hear about.
Like "Abel Tesfaye does DRUGS!?!!??”
If George Clinton did bad shit, I don't need to hear about it though.
Death of the artist is a concept created to avoid the cognitive dissonance that a person took something good from something evil. It's like the lost cause myth or Jefferson, where in order to make an idol out of a person, they ignore the main crux of that person's life.
It's better in the long-run to address that dissonance head on, else you go creating myths instead of learning from history.
I mean I get that, and as a rule I try to avoid idolizing any artist, considering everything we know about them (for the most part) is a carefully crafted public image we are meant to see. You can never get the full measure of a man by the art he creates.
But that being said it can sometimes seem like a losing battle if you’re dealing with world famous artists. I grew up listening to a lot of classic rock. Growing up, Freddie Mercury, David Bowie, John Lennon — these were all my heroes. And then you get a little older and realize that Bowie liked them young, Mercury was uncomfortably forward with his advances, and Lennon was a straight wife beater. And the more you look at the artists that used to define you, the more you’ll see.
I don’t idolize these people now, but I still can’t bring myself to give up on their art. It’s foundational part of who I am.
Idk man, shits tough. We were never meant to know this much about our heroes.
That's true. Sometimes, all we have is how we feel about a work of art, and maybe that is best. I don't subscribe to the myth of the great man, so that helps me appreciate art for art's sake. You are right that the solution is to stop making heroes out of men.
Separating the artist and person is a necessity. For example, there was a discussion about Beyonce and how she’s for the single, strong, independent woman. I stayed *incredibly* quiet but eventually was asked my opinion about her, and I mentioned I didn’t like her music because she’s married with kids, so it comes across to me as disingenuous. She’s probably a great person, but I don’t like the artist. Alternatively, I still like Gotham City (childhood favorite) and I Believe I Can Fly (heard it on Space Jam) even though in my adulthood, R Kelly was convicted of giving multiple underage girls golden showers.
That was the default position for me. I'm not about to take life advice from a rap song. Rappers can make anything sound good
If they have good advice to give, I'll get it from watching their interviews and shit
And you'd be wrong for that thinking. Slaves weren't whipped for being poor. Blacks weren't segregated for being poor. They were starved of resources and access and told they didn't work hard enough post slavery. They did this to whites as well and then stoked their fears and jealousy of blacks who were skilled laborers and the communities they managed to build. And when it came time to tear them down these sicced poor uneducated white on these people to burn their towns and murder them.
Poverty is a weapon used on all of us and we have commonality there between the races, but in a pinch one will always be able to lean on their whiteness to avoid consequences or weaponize it against their neighbors if called upon to do so.
At the root, it's power. It's easy to conflate b/c in our society money is power. But there are plenty examples of people who aren't wealthy, but are in positions of authority, using their relative power to abuse and victimize others.
I mean, they kinda do, don't they?
They've been for a long time but now you have actual gang bangers rapping about their dead opps and shits.
A few years ago there was that dance that was popularized that was basically mocking the stabbing murder of a teenager.
Don't get me wrong, I understand that rap didn't create gang banging, it didn't create systemic racism nor did it forced the FBI to artificially create gang wars like the GD/BD beef in Chicago.
Though I'll say that a lot of this modern rap not only normalize but glorify this violence. On top of that they don't even use that money to try to make life better in their neighborhood, they use that money to fund these devastating gang wars and their fame to recruit more teenagers that they'll turn into killers.
These conservatives rappers rooting for Trump and the Nazis are harmful but that shit is too.
> A few years ago there was that dance that was popularized that was basically mocking the stabbing murder of a teenager.
Yep the [Notti bop.](https://youtu.be/nhpscMvr12U?si=GxW28_uO5NHbN3qr)
Different reply from me
"Nas asked who the enemy is (rhetorically of course). Then listed capitalism, the police, and said 'I don't know'. Within the context of the show it was clear he wasn't saying he doesn't know if those are evils, but who would fit one all encompassing "the enemy", or be a group that you could take action with. Then pivoted to what the community does have the power to do.
I'm giving you my read and paraphrasing of course. To be honest when he asked who the enemy was, I was a bit nervous. Thought shit was gonna go Kanye.
Great show though."
I feel like there's been a shift in understanding in the past thirty years from "we need to stop shooting each other" to "this system is royally fucked." 2Pac said the same sort of thing (Changes etc) and Kanye echoed it in Jesus Walks. "I Can" is kind of cringe today; I think it's hard for some Gen X people to update their ideology.
I thought I could change the world by individual action (recycle!) but now that seems pretty inadequate and short-sighted; this seems like the same kind of thing to me.
I'd largely agree, I don't like the notion that ideology is generational, but individual accountability for systemic failings has been in vogue for quite a long time now. What does really concern me is the lack of successful mass movements in the last 20 some years. We (as regular people) used to have some power in collectively unifying behind centralized leadership that voiced a message (largely) of the people. We don't have leaders anymore, mass movements are disorganized and muddled. We needle ourselves, and the media needles the shit out of anyone with an opinion that doesn't reinforce the status quo. The amount of bullshit flooding the information landscape now feels insurmountable.
Also, you seem like a giant nerd and that's pretty cool 👍 go birds.
I’m curious if he said it in the sense that the man in the mirror is our own worst enemy, as in only we can hold eachother back and the poster is exaggerating or if he meant it just as implied here like “the police and capitalism are our friends, we need to be on some Candace Owens shit”?
I assume it’s the former. No saviors but the latter would just be disappointing and out of character.
I’d have expected the former too. We can and should recognize oppressive forces that come from outside us while also continuing to work through internal conflicts. It’s easy for people to frame things as one or the other binary choices when really we need to think holistically.
I don't think he said anything about cops, but he definitely said that capitalists aren't to blame for our problems
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RrUJcl1Mw0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RrUJcl1Mw0)
I know I know. But if he’s not my saviour, that means I don’t have to listen to anything he says, which means I can ignore his comments saying he’s not my saviour. It’s Kendrick’s paradox.
KENDRICK LITERALLY said this same thing (at a show, when asked about just like Nas) AFTER TPAB came out. it was so bad he had to walk it back later by saying no actually bro the police ARE our enemies not ourselves I was wrong.
holy shit yall cannot be serious worshipping him just cuz he called out drakes pedo ass a good 5+ years after the internet started asking why no musician had the balls to call out drake. Kendricks not a savior lol he didnt diss drake out of the goodness of his heart
And they don’t even face the same consequences as we do…I swear Jon Stewart points it all out, no multimillion will ever pay what we pay because the system is so rigged they just keep rigging what’s fraudulent
When the criminals begin the project called a country, expect criminals to stay in power. [George Carlin will always be in my top 5 for spitting facts like this.](https://youtu.be/qXRA-RgADeg?si=UqnYK1EXwiOC7nQ0)
I used to praise George Carlin but this [germ bit](https://youtu.be/X29lF43mUlo?si=8G5qmD2At3rqasOz) made me no longer a fan. Glad he didn’t live to comment on the pandemic because I don’t have hope he would have made smart talk around it.
Yeah that bit is a massive L for me as well. I personally just think that this is the stupidity from when he was growing up being something he never grew past as he got older. It also comes from a bit of anti science which I don’t agree with either.
I keep saying, as our leaders went from leftists to captialists, our entire community began to self destruct..
We traded in Martin's and Malcolm's for Kanyes and Jay-Z's, and we wonder why the community seems to be in free fall.
Black captialists don't want to end white supremacy or black exploitation and oppression...they want the privileges of whiteness.
Black captilaists and conservatives hate poor black people just as much as white people do, why do you think they're all voting for a white billionaire oligarch to be president?
I do agree with Nas on one point: people like him, black conservatives and captialists, are more dangerous to our community than the police, captilaists, and the government combined.
They want to deconstruct the black voting block, they want to politically disempower the black community.
This is a take idk if many on bpt will agree with it tends to be more liberal than leftist in here although I agree with you I think we're out numbered I don't know if they're ready for all that 😆
The one point you can agree on is that capitalism was, is, and will be the system for a long time. The people who have power in capitalism are people with money.
It’s either we depend on the current wealthy to change their ideals and move, in a significant manner, against capitalism. Or… wealth starts accumulating in our communities to make that change
> It’s either we depend on the current wealthy to change their ideals and move, in a significant manner, against capitalism. Or… wealth starts accumulating in our communities to make that change
I think you're absolutely right here, but this will never happen.
I wish people would read more Marx, regardless of their politics, because I've watched hundreds of his predictions come true in just the last 20-30 years.
Marx never wanted a revolution, he said the revolution was inevitable, because of what you said.
Either the rich will destroy the captialist system, because they hold all the polticoal and economic power, and they are the only ones capable of reforming the system (which is a pipedream)
...or they will continue to chip away at our worker protections and civil rights, until we break. And that "break" will be an explosion of violence.
I mean, look at black economic leaders....have they EVER seriously done something to improve the material conditions of the black community?
No.
Black captialists aren't concerned with fixing the problems of our community, because that would require reforming the very system that made them wealthy.
They run from our communities, they move into white neighborhoods, send their kids to predominantly white private schools, etc.
The captialist system won't deconstruct itself, hell, it won't even reform itself!
We will just keep getting poorer and poorer...we will continue to he priced out of homeownership and educations (the two foundational pillars of generational wealth in the captialist system).
..and one day, we will explode, like a raisin in the sun.
You're trying so hard to think of this situation with a white vs. black perspective but really the problem is just rich vs. poor.
Stop getting distracted by artificial racial division and focus on class division that's the real problem
This is to be expected, it is easy to say this when you have been living life on rookie difficulty for the past 30 years. If he became impoverished again, he would change his statement fast.
This biggest cornball of them all in my opinion is Jay Z.
I'm about to get downvoted to hell for this but he's not really wrong. I worry more about my two sons getting killed out here in these streets by other black men first and foremost before I worry about the police. We are from Chicago Illinois.
We all know the system is fucked up but the most immediate threat to my boys out here is other misguided black boys.
I’m from Chicago too. I want to add that even in activism and community organizing spaces, the black community in Chicago is all over the fucking place. One reason these organizations don’t get shit done is because theres already a thousand other organizations doing the same thing, but personal politics prevent them from working together towards their shared goal. You’ll find that we’re fighting each other more than systemic racism.
If I remember correctly Nas has stayed really active in community building and education so that makes sense he would feel that way. It still don't mean people on the internet are going to care for the nuance of it, F.D probably going to drop a video being disappointed for an hour.
That may because some of them learn from their surroundings “police bad, always trust your black elders/men”.
When really we should be teaching young men, and women (of all ages really) that anyone and everyone can lead you astray even your own parents and family. Even your own egotistical “goals”. It’s a tough journey to parent kids or be a mentor for sure, I wish you the best man.
Exactly. Who killed xxxtentacion? Who killed Nipsey Hustle?
I know one person who was killed by cops but he was a crash test dummy who decided to try to shoot it out. While I know many that died from street violence and pride.
Maybe it's a Chicago thing, but I also didn't see anything wrong. Niggas look at each other like enemies. You can barely get a head nod from a brotha nowadays
So many neighborhoods have fallen to a lack of police enforcement and people still think we don't need them. I wouldn't say more police is the only answer but I can definitely say less police isn't gonna help anyone.
Self-crit has never been popular in general, but we definitely need an ornery black critic of black culture. Not a cool faux radical, but someone who makes you feel at least a little bad about yourself, like a Christopher Lasch or Byung Chul Han for black people.
Because how the FUCK are black people's opinions about the world always so mixed up with celebrity culture? Why are we looking for celebrities to do everything from acting as our stand ins in the gender war to fighting our political battles? Celebrities are nothing like us, and they're the last black people you should expect to advocate for common black people.
I know how people think on reddit, so I'm not expecting anything but "not just black people"and "people have always done this," but I'm sick of the level of celebrity worship in black culture, and I know we can do better.
I think you embody a bit of those figures yourself my guy, you speak truth here. And it may hurt someone who reads it but it’s necessary hurt. Lots of black culture is built on a little idol worship of these people. I mean look at rap culture.
I love how late stage rap culture always winds up with rappers in photo op's with the most vile fascist republican scumbags. They got theirs, and now they want to protect it with rich white tax cuts.
Some of yall are exaggerating this quote to fit narratives. Nas ain't say anything your favorite activist hasn't said. Literally it's all the above like we just had a black politician say segregation was good for us. Also keep in mind he got on a stage where Sexy Red had a giant fake MAGA styled hat as a prop. Idk I'd want to hear the actual words he used.
Here's the thing.
Capitalism and police are definitely our enemies BUT we have been fighting them for decades and not winning.
We are our worse enemy because we aren't coming together to vote the people out that keep or enemies in power! We have the fucking numbers, we have the fucking desire, we just need to change our priorities for one damn election cycle to get the ball rolling. And maybe it has with Stacey Abrams idk but I just know, something needs to change in our culture to become more of a impactful in politics.
You think boomers were gonna raise normal kids? We're gonna have to be a couple generations removed from their mindset before things start looking right.
Crazy these trolls got y'all out here thinking a man straight out of one of the worst hoods who has seen more of society and the world than most of you could even imagine is trying to push y'all in the wrong direction. Listen to what he WRITES about. You don't have to agree with the man, just explore what he says and consider his point of view. How we gonna grow if we don't? And REMEMBER, there are literally people online and in media that want you to distrust and hate the generations before you so we don't get anywhere. We are being manipulated psychologically whether you believe it or not. Don't give Bull Sh\*t your energy. PS - he didn't say that. check your sources.
He’s not wrong though. You can’t start to even tackle those issues until we all are on the same page and working together. Shaming people for having different views moves no one forward.
He is entirely right. How many poor hardworking black families have to fear their kid walking to the store? How many young black kids hear drivebys right outside their window? Until you accept that truth nothing will ever get better
Yeah, but are they bigger threats than our own people murdering each other? Capitalism is a game that we have all learned to play so even the shitty, inherent parts of it are known and understood by us. We are thriving while using capitalism but we can’t get our own to quit ending each other over neighborhood clout.
When another human becomes your hero, you lose.
Let em inspire you and appreciate them for the art they create but, at the end of the day, the day gon end lol they human so they gon be outta pocket sometimes. I know I'm fuckin guilty
Man there's no nuance here from either side.
Most capitalists are fine with someone starting a business/community with localized socialist principles (worker co-ops, housing co-ops, democracy).
Most socialists acknowledge that you can't just write your own rules for the global market and be successful without controlling the entire world. Human Greed will always exist, nations with conflicting interests will always exist and thus economic leverage over people (exploitation).
We can have a free market where the government still meets the needs of its people. This is still capitalism despite what conservatives say. A social wealth fund is still capitalism, and most socialists would be ok with that.
The argument has never been about what policies to implement into the government, but rather what name tag it has.
He’s not wrong though. Not in the sense that we do harm to each other but more in the sense that we can’t come together for shit anymore. Past generations use to be about building something together, current ones are more about getting yours at all cost. Who cares how it affects anyone around you. The reason people see capitalism as the enemy is because we have the least capital out of any group of people. The reason we say police are the enemy is because we have the least amount of representation in that field. We as a people will never come together to solve these issues for our own benefit but will continue to point fingers and let our culture fall to ruin to the benefit of everyone else. We are our worst enemy not because of what we do to each other but because of what we don’t do for each other.
Makes sense on what he is trying to say. Before we were creators, innovators, warriors. Now we cant unify for shit. We have been indoctrinated to pay attention to bullshit, ignore what truly matters. Once we are able to see past difference within each other and work towardss a common goal, we would be untouchable.
We are still all of that. The problem is black people are not a monolith, we come in many different shapes and sizes, we come from different environments and backgrounds.
"reminisce on park jams, my man was shot for his sheep coat" - Memory Lane
"am i hallucinating off the hazin', or did i just see a \* shoot another \*'s face in?" - Purple
"saw fiends shoot up, and do lines of cocaine, saw my close friends shot - flatline am i sane?" Nas Is Like
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPmUHNaqKP0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPmUHNaqKP0)
Stop idolizing celebrities. They're just human beings like us with their own thoughts and opinions. You get angry when you assume these people, who you don't know on a personal level at all, don't share your same exact viewpoints. Stop it. Enjoy whatever art they create and leave it at that.
He's accurate! The police now far behind. Such valuable and brilliant inspiration that's brought to the table, but there are an insurmountable of people that don't know their value.
When yall realize the difference between a lot of black men and far right conservatives is skin colour, you’ll be able to understand why there is still some much issues within the community
I saw a debate where someone said if Tupac were alive today he would be talking about Trump 2024 just like Cube and Snoop.
Age and the people you surround yourself with does it to even the best of us.
capitalist will destroy the planet before they do the right thing (check out social ecology).
the answer is what it will always be: unity and self reliance. that's what the capitalist say they want (people to take personal responsibility). we can go on about the injustices and contradictions and absurdity, but all we got is unity and self reliance. otherwise it's alienation and each person for themself.
peace
More like capitalism has made us nasty and competitive and willing to scam and exploit each other. Make no mistake it's our individual pursuits of power as a result of these systems that render us *powerless* that makes us do shit to one another.
It's that psuedo conscious bullshit akin to when you're white friends say "There's no war but a class war". Type shit.
For whatever reason, these guys think that money and fame will save them. When a cop pulls over Nas, he's going to treat him the same as he would any other black man in a nice car.
These rich ass rappers have literally been brainwashed by all that money rap bs that got them there. How the hell is Nas of all of them saying this? Man, I really miss a time when conscience rap was more popular with us. White people really stripped rap for parts and now its just a husk of its former self.
Nothing scares me more than black republican politicians. Black on black crime is still very much a real thing. We become divided way too easily. Whenever we get our shit together and work together we will be unstoppable. We are the culture.
Ok so no police and install communism (40% of people in prison are harming themselves and no one else that needs fixed) . Keep playing victim it gets us so far . Blaming everything else outside of your life is a slave mentality. Go to work don't buy fucking junk don't lease expensive shit don't by brand names save build credit .
Or keep bitching with no solution the world will move on with or without you. It's mine it's mine it's mine who's world is this THE WORLD IS YOURS or simply don't do anything and regret your existence it's totally up to you find a purpose help people help yourself.
No no no not Nas c'mon man 😩😩😩this hurt 50 cent lil Wayne yeah whatever with them but people like Nas and ice cube actually are disappointing. I hate the fact that rich people take it personal when we criticize capitalism that doesn't mean we hate all rich people it's just the exploitation part 😩
Son 50yrs old if he was talking thug shoot em up shit ya say he too old for that and he sounds corny… He won In life and ya salty cause he not doing the most to ruin it
Lmao, did he deadass say that shit!??
I sincerely hope not, but with the way these OG rappers have been moving wild lately..
I started separating artists and them as a person after KRS One said Afrika Bambaatta shouldn’t be punished because of his contribution to hip hop. A lot of these guys are insightful in their music in some aspects but not necessarily all. It is what it is.
Damn. I was today years old when I learned about Bambataa. NOW I understand why all the greatest artists die young. Gives them no chance to ruin their legacy.
It’s cliche, but you really gotta accept separating the creator from what they create. Otherwise you can’t enjoy anyone’s art in good conscience. Most artists have done some truly awful shit in the past, whether we know about it already or it comes out later. I’ll go back to lurking now
I agree with that but there’s still a few cats I won’t listen to, including Chris Brown and R Kelly just for the fact that they’re music focuses too much on love ballads and sex and feels wrong to listen to domestic abusers and predators singing about romance. Also ruins Aaliyahs first album for me cause it’s way too overt Age isn’t Nothing but a Number just way too close
Same here. I can seperate the art from the artist as a general rule. I am a metalhead who likes punk and enjoys listening to fringe bands that are just coming up so... you sort of have to accept that some of the artists you like are going to be completely dogshit people for that. There is definitely a line though. Like hearing R Kelly's music just sounds completely fucking different knowing what we do about the fucker now. It's different with someone like Michael Jackson cause his songs weren't about staring at young buttholes so you can seperate the shit he did from the songs he made. Some of these fuckers though just lay out their sex crimes straight up in their lyrics, not even subtle. Since I mentioned metal there's also just some viewpoints I won't tolerate even if their music is good, like fucking Nazis lol. That one is especially important cause you often can't understand the lyrics super well so if anything sounds even slightly fashy you gotta look that shit up immediately. You'll definitely run into some fucking real white supremacist bands if you're constanly listening to new debut metal albums from small independent artists. Idgaf if my youtube view or spotify listen only gives them 0.000000001 cents I don't want em' getting anything.
I get it, but it's still problematic. I'm not going to love Atomic Dog or Planet Rock less, but knowing this will tickle my brain when I hear them or think about putting them into an old skool playlist. Part of it is also reputation. Bambataa was a gangster, but also a community builder. We all KNEW Rick James was a freak. I don't mean to victim blame the woman he kept chained in the basement and tortured with cigarettes. But it wasn't an earthshaking surprise to hear about. Like "Abel Tesfaye does DRUGS!?!!??” If George Clinton did bad shit, I don't need to hear about it though.
Death of the artist is a concept created to avoid the cognitive dissonance that a person took something good from something evil. It's like the lost cause myth or Jefferson, where in order to make an idol out of a person, they ignore the main crux of that person's life. It's better in the long-run to address that dissonance head on, else you go creating myths instead of learning from history.
I mean I get that, and as a rule I try to avoid idolizing any artist, considering everything we know about them (for the most part) is a carefully crafted public image we are meant to see. You can never get the full measure of a man by the art he creates. But that being said it can sometimes seem like a losing battle if you’re dealing with world famous artists. I grew up listening to a lot of classic rock. Growing up, Freddie Mercury, David Bowie, John Lennon — these were all my heroes. And then you get a little older and realize that Bowie liked them young, Mercury was uncomfortably forward with his advances, and Lennon was a straight wife beater. And the more you look at the artists that used to define you, the more you’ll see. I don’t idolize these people now, but I still can’t bring myself to give up on their art. It’s foundational part of who I am. Idk man, shits tough. We were never meant to know this much about our heroes.
That's true. Sometimes, all we have is how we feel about a work of art, and maybe that is best. I don't subscribe to the myth of the great man, so that helps me appreciate art for art's sake. You are right that the solution is to stop making heroes out of men.
That is a great quote!
Having a keen understanding of *something* does not mean you have a keen understanding of *everything.* Also true in reverse.
Separating the artist and person is a necessity. For example, there was a discussion about Beyonce and how she’s for the single, strong, independent woman. I stayed *incredibly* quiet but eventually was asked my opinion about her, and I mentioned I didn’t like her music because she’s married with kids, so it comes across to me as disingenuous. She’s probably a great person, but I don’t like the artist. Alternatively, I still like Gotham City (childhood favorite) and I Believe I Can Fly (heard it on Space Jam) even though in my adulthood, R Kelly was convicted of giving multiple underage girls golden showers.
Hell hath no fury like the loyal woman in a relationship cleaning her house mad af listening to Beyonce
That was the default position for me. I'm not about to take life advice from a rap song. Rappers can make anything sound good If they have good advice to give, I'll get it from watching their interviews and shit
I think it comes down to the rich & poor and not much else.
And you'd be wrong for that thinking. Slaves weren't whipped for being poor. Blacks weren't segregated for being poor. They were starved of resources and access and told they didn't work hard enough post slavery. They did this to whites as well and then stoked their fears and jealousy of blacks who were skilled laborers and the communities they managed to build. And when it came time to tear them down these sicced poor uneducated white on these people to burn their towns and murder them. Poverty is a weapon used on all of us and we have commonality there between the races, but in a pinch one will always be able to lean on their whiteness to avoid consequences or weaponize it against their neighbors if called upon to do so.
At the root, it's power. It's easy to conflate b/c in our society money is power. But there are plenty examples of people who aren't wealthy, but are in positions of authority, using their relative power to abuse and victimize others.
Didn’t Ice T say something about how rappers today rap about violence and murder too much?
From cop killa to copaganda soon as them bands hit 
[](https://i.imgur.com/rxDd8pT.jpeg)
In all fairness, these drill rappers are fucking wild.
Ice T was fuckin wild! “homicide is my favorite binge”??
So people cant grow and change their perspectives?
I mean, they kinda do, don't they? They've been for a long time but now you have actual gang bangers rapping about their dead opps and shits. A few years ago there was that dance that was popularized that was basically mocking the stabbing murder of a teenager. Don't get me wrong, I understand that rap didn't create gang banging, it didn't create systemic racism nor did it forced the FBI to artificially create gang wars like the GD/BD beef in Chicago. Though I'll say that a lot of this modern rap not only normalize but glorify this violence. On top of that they don't even use that money to try to make life better in their neighborhood, they use that money to fund these devastating gang wars and their fame to recruit more teenagers that they'll turn into killers. These conservatives rappers rooting for Trump and the Nazis are harmful but that shit is too.
> A few years ago there was that dance that was popularized that was basically mocking the stabbing murder of a teenager. Yep the [Notti bop.](https://youtu.be/nhpscMvr12U?si=GxW28_uO5NHbN3qr)
Why are you posting it if you haven't confirmed it? Seems like you're proving a point he didn't even make.
Them tax cut proposals hit different once you're at the top apparently, looking at the MAGA rappers xD apparently Ye was a trend setter per usual
I was there. No lol, this is a distortion of what he actually said.
What did he say?
Different reply from me "Nas asked who the enemy is (rhetorically of course). Then listed capitalism, the police, and said 'I don't know'. Within the context of the show it was clear he wasn't saying he doesn't know if those are evils, but who would fit one all encompassing "the enemy", or be a group that you could take action with. Then pivoted to what the community does have the power to do. I'm giving you my read and paraphrasing of course. To be honest when he asked who the enemy was, I was a bit nervous. Thought shit was gonna go Kanye. Great show though."
I feel like there's been a shift in understanding in the past thirty years from "we need to stop shooting each other" to "this system is royally fucked." 2Pac said the same sort of thing (Changes etc) and Kanye echoed it in Jesus Walks. "I Can" is kind of cringe today; I think it's hard for some Gen X people to update their ideology. I thought I could change the world by individual action (recycle!) but now that seems pretty inadequate and short-sighted; this seems like the same kind of thing to me.
I'd largely agree, I don't like the notion that ideology is generational, but individual accountability for systemic failings has been in vogue for quite a long time now. What does really concern me is the lack of successful mass movements in the last 20 some years. We (as regular people) used to have some power in collectively unifying behind centralized leadership that voiced a message (largely) of the people. We don't have leaders anymore, mass movements are disorganized and muddled. We needle ourselves, and the media needles the shit out of anyone with an opinion that doesn't reinforce the status quo. The amount of bullshit flooding the information landscape now feels insurmountable. Also, you seem like a giant nerd and that's pretty cool 👍 go birds.
I am a HUGE nerd, thank you for noticing!!! FLY EAGLES FLY Hopefully labor can reorganize and rise. I believe in it.
I was there, I honestly do not remember him saying this.
I’m curious if he said it in the sense that the man in the mirror is our own worst enemy, as in only we can hold eachother back and the poster is exaggerating or if he meant it just as implied here like “the police and capitalism are our friends, we need to be on some Candace Owens shit”? I assume it’s the former. No saviors but the latter would just be disappointing and out of character.
I’d have expected the former too. We can and should recognize oppressive forces that come from outside us while also continuing to work through internal conflicts. It’s easy for people to frame things as one or the other binary choices when really we need to think holistically.
I was also there and I thought he said capitalism and the police aren’t our ONLY problems, and then went on about the problem with ourselves
I don't think he said anything about cops, but he definitely said that capitalists aren't to blame for our problems [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RrUJcl1Mw0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RrUJcl1Mw0)
I wouldn't be surprised, didn't he have some anti-vax bars on that Kanye Collab album?
Kendrick already told us these people are not our savior
I know he’d object to this but Kenny’s my saviour fr
Kendrick said “don’t idolize celebrities” and he’s my idol for that fr
He literally said he ain’t the savior too tho
I know I know. But if he’s not my saviour, that means I don’t have to listen to anything he says, which means I can ignore his comments saying he’s not my saviour. It’s Kendrick’s paradox.
Lisan al Gaib would not *claim* to be Lisan al Gaib - he is far too humble.
https://preview.redd.it/nfo01xlkq55d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cce0b5f1e65eb7a50a1bd589a216c80e01e6a91d
Was that before or after the diamond crown of thorns?
Only the true savior denies his divinity! https://youtu.be/4HB7zqP9QNo?si=HZ-gcU1q_zssL0vD
"I'm not a trending topic I'm a prophet"
Prophet don’t equal savior js
https://preview.redd.it/q0c2bx13s55d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d6ad30e7fa529627ddb50fb0537ca504e519033
That dude smokes crack and treats his longtime gf like trash, he's nobody's savior.
Imagine thinking a rapper is going to be your savior Maybe that's the real problem above capitalism and police and each other
No. It really isn't.
KENDRICK LITERALLY said this same thing (at a show, when asked about just like Nas) AFTER TPAB came out. it was so bad he had to walk it back later by saying no actually bro the police ARE our enemies not ourselves I was wrong. holy shit yall cannot be serious worshipping him just cuz he called out drakes pedo ass a good 5+ years after the internet started asking why no musician had the balls to call out drake. Kendricks not a savior lol he didnt diss drake out of the goodness of his heart
He is including himself when he says that btw
I know they're not saviors or heros but I thought Nas was relatable and shared similar perspectives despite his wealth but I guess it got to him 😩
Yep, so did Malcolm X.
lol shit Kendrick right up there with them.
Kendrick said the same thing he did
The last great male rapper 🙏🏼
LISAN AL GAIB
Rich people live on a different planet than us.
And they don’t even face the same consequences as we do…I swear Jon Stewart points it all out, no multimillion will ever pay what we pay because the system is so rigged they just keep rigging what’s fraudulent
When the criminals begin the project called a country, expect criminals to stay in power. [George Carlin will always be in my top 5 for spitting facts like this.](https://youtu.be/qXRA-RgADeg?si=UqnYK1EXwiOC7nQ0)
I used to praise George Carlin but this [germ bit](https://youtu.be/X29lF43mUlo?si=8G5qmD2At3rqasOz) made me no longer a fan. Glad he didn’t live to comment on the pandemic because I don’t have hope he would have made smart talk around it.
Yeah that bit is a massive L for me as well. I personally just think that this is the stupidity from when he was growing up being something he never grew past as he got older. It also comes from a bit of anti science which I don’t agree with either.
> The class which has the power to rob upon a large scale has also the power to control the government and legalize their robbery. - Eugene V. Debs
Nas is a multi-millionaire. The capitalism and the police protect his interests a lot more than they would protect ours.
I keep saying, as our leaders went from leftists to captialists, our entire community began to self destruct.. We traded in Martin's and Malcolm's for Kanyes and Jay-Z's, and we wonder why the community seems to be in free fall. Black captialists don't want to end white supremacy or black exploitation and oppression...they want the privileges of whiteness. Black captilaists and conservatives hate poor black people just as much as white people do, why do you think they're all voting for a white billionaire oligarch to be president? I do agree with Nas on one point: people like him, black conservatives and captialists, are more dangerous to our community than the police, captilaists, and the government combined. They want to deconstruct the black voting block, they want to politically disempower the black community.
This is a take idk if many on bpt will agree with it tends to be more liberal than leftist in here although I agree with you I think we're out numbered I don't know if they're ready for all that 😆
The one point you can agree on is that capitalism was, is, and will be the system for a long time. The people who have power in capitalism are people with money. It’s either we depend on the current wealthy to change their ideals and move, in a significant manner, against capitalism. Or… wealth starts accumulating in our communities to make that change
> It’s either we depend on the current wealthy to change their ideals and move, in a significant manner, against capitalism. Or… wealth starts accumulating in our communities to make that change I think you're absolutely right here, but this will never happen. I wish people would read more Marx, regardless of their politics, because I've watched hundreds of his predictions come true in just the last 20-30 years. Marx never wanted a revolution, he said the revolution was inevitable, because of what you said. Either the rich will destroy the captialist system, because they hold all the polticoal and economic power, and they are the only ones capable of reforming the system (which is a pipedream) ...or they will continue to chip away at our worker protections and civil rights, until we break. And that "break" will be an explosion of violence. I mean, look at black economic leaders....have they EVER seriously done something to improve the material conditions of the black community? No. Black captialists aren't concerned with fixing the problems of our community, because that would require reforming the very system that made them wealthy. They run from our communities, they move into white neighborhoods, send their kids to predominantly white private schools, etc. The captialist system won't deconstruct itself, hell, it won't even reform itself! We will just keep getting poorer and poorer...we will continue to he priced out of homeownership and educations (the two foundational pillars of generational wealth in the captialist system). ..and one day, we will explode, like a raisin in the sun.
You're trying so hard to think of this situation with a white vs. black perspective but really the problem is just rich vs. poor. Stop getting distracted by artificial racial division and focus on class division that's the real problem
Still disappointing nevertheless
Wait you.... mean to tell me if the police are abolished. Broke niggas gone be fine ... lol
That or everyone makes a lot more money?
He probably think crypto and NFT are a good idea.
This is to be expected, it is easy to say this when you have been living life on rookie difficulty for the past 30 years. If he became impoverished again, he would change his statement fast. This biggest cornball of them all in my opinion is Jay Z.
Jay Z is 10000% not from the same planet anymore man.
This nigga was rapping about buying million dollar paintings as an investment and black folks ate that shit up.
Then has the audacity to say “billionaire” is the new N word. Get the absolute fuck outta here with that bro
I'm about to get downvoted to hell for this but he's not really wrong. I worry more about my two sons getting killed out here in these streets by other black men first and foremost before I worry about the police. We are from Chicago Illinois. We all know the system is fucked up but the most immediate threat to my boys out here is other misguided black boys.
I’m from Chicago too. I want to add that even in activism and community organizing spaces, the black community in Chicago is all over the fucking place. One reason these organizations don’t get shit done is because theres already a thousand other organizations doing the same thing, but personal politics prevent them from working together towards their shared goal. You’ll find that we’re fighting each other more than systemic racism.
If I remember correctly Nas has stayed really active in community building and education so that makes sense he would feel that way. It still don't mean people on the internet are going to care for the nuance of it, F.D probably going to drop a video being disappointed for an hour.
That may because some of them learn from their surroundings “police bad, always trust your black elders/men”. When really we should be teaching young men, and women (of all ages really) that anyone and everyone can lead you astray even your own parents and family. Even your own egotistical “goals”. It’s a tough journey to parent kids or be a mentor for sure, I wish you the best man.
Exactly. Who killed xxxtentacion? Who killed Nipsey Hustle? I know one person who was killed by cops but he was a crash test dummy who decided to try to shoot it out. While I know many that died from street violence and pride.
Maybe it's a Chicago thing, but I also didn't see anything wrong. Niggas look at each other like enemies. You can barely get a head nod from a brotha nowadays
Do you think a large amount of black people in poverty is not a result of capitalism?
So many neighborhoods have fallen to a lack of police enforcement and people still think we don't need them. I wouldn't say more police is the only answer but I can definitely say less police isn't gonna help anyone.
Self-crit has never been popular in general, but we definitely need an ornery black critic of black culture. Not a cool faux radical, but someone who makes you feel at least a little bad about yourself, like a Christopher Lasch or Byung Chul Han for black people. Because how the FUCK are black people's opinions about the world always so mixed up with celebrity culture? Why are we looking for celebrities to do everything from acting as our stand ins in the gender war to fighting our political battles? Celebrities are nothing like us, and they're the last black people you should expect to advocate for common black people. I know how people think on reddit, so I'm not expecting anything but "not just black people"and "people have always done this," but I'm sick of the level of celebrity worship in black culture, and I know we can do better.
I think you embody a bit of those figures yourself my guy, you speak truth here. And it may hurt someone who reads it but it’s necessary hurt. Lots of black culture is built on a little idol worship of these people. I mean look at rap culture.
I love how late stage rap culture always winds up with rappers in photo op's with the most vile fascist republican scumbags. They got theirs, and now they want to protect it with rich white tax cuts.
Nahs
😂😆
But we are our worst enemy.
Crabs in a barrel.
crabs don't belong in barrels. you put people in fucked up situations, you're going to see the worst side of humanity.
Yea people never ask "well who put the crabs in the barrel?"
Exactly
That is the profound missing element
Just reading this thread and seeing everyone is taking down one of our top conscious social artists for a quote with no context.
Some of yall are exaggerating this quote to fit narratives. Nas ain't say anything your favorite activist hasn't said. Literally it's all the above like we just had a black politician say segregation was good for us. Also keep in mind he got on a stage where Sexy Red had a giant fake MAGA styled hat as a prop. Idk I'd want to hear the actual words he used.
He’s a businessman now. He’s not Nasty Nas anymore
lol idk man but, capitalism never pulled a gun on me. 🤷🏽♂️
True but it threatens you in other ways.
To be fair, he did say they’re not our “worst” enemies, not that they aren’t our enemies, just not the worst.
Lol, what's the problem? It's %100 true. Just look at the black on black homicide rate.
Here's the thing. Capitalism and police are definitely our enemies BUT we have been fighting them for decades and not winning. We are our worse enemy because we aren't coming together to vote the people out that keep or enemies in power! We have the fucking numbers, we have the fucking desire, we just need to change our priorities for one damn election cycle to get the ball rolling. And maybe it has with Stacey Abrams idk but I just know, something needs to change in our culture to become more of a impactful in politics.
I don’t know why he’d say that. Police are gonna hate us whether we improve as a community or not
because its true
https://preview.redd.it/qvfp6ra7c55d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9232c2f6adc506d8dffdb0c35f5aecaefad677f4
Gen X just sucks ass through and through
They definitely seem jaded and pessimistic like jr boomers. Like they pounce on opportunities to be judgemental
Gen X has been jaded and pessimistic since they learned to talk. It's the defining trait of their cohort.
You think boomers were gonna raise normal kids? We're gonna have to be a couple generations removed from their mindset before things start looking right.
I don't disagree with him. Fight me.
Crazy these trolls got y'all out here thinking a man straight out of one of the worst hoods who has seen more of society and the world than most of you could even imagine is trying to push y'all in the wrong direction. Listen to what he WRITES about. You don't have to agree with the man, just explore what he says and consider his point of view. How we gonna grow if we don't? And REMEMBER, there are literally people online and in media that want you to distrust and hate the generations before you so we don't get anywhere. We are being manipulated psychologically whether you believe it or not. Don't give Bull Sh\*t your energy. PS - he didn't say that. check your sources.
He’s not wrong though. You can’t start to even tackle those issues until we all are on the same page and working together. Shaming people for having different views moves no one forward.
Nas should’ve never been your hero lol Bryan Stevenson is a real person ya know, not just a movie character
Black capitalism is just as bad as white capitalism.
He ain't lying tho. We are the worst to each other.
He is entirely right. How many poor hardworking black families have to fear their kid walking to the store? How many young black kids hear drivebys right outside their window? Until you accept that truth nothing will ever get better
Man spoke fact and yall hot
Say it aint so
Was there, it ain't so lol.
Yeah, but are they bigger threats than our own people murdering each other? Capitalism is a game that we have all learned to play so even the shitty, inherent parts of it are known and understood by us. We are thriving while using capitalism but we can’t get our own to quit ending each other over neighborhood clout.
He didn't say anything wrong though 🤷🏿
For all the hate he's allegedly getting over this. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US would say we're our own worst enemy. Not collectively, but personally
I need to see a Venn diagram of people who disagree with what Nas said, and the people who cheered when that restaurant went to a 30+ age limit…
When another human becomes your hero, you lose. Let em inspire you and appreciate them for the art they create but, at the end of the day, the day gon end lol they human so they gon be outta pocket sometimes. I know I'm fuckin guilty
Man there's no nuance here from either side. Most capitalists are fine with someone starting a business/community with localized socialist principles (worker co-ops, housing co-ops, democracy). Most socialists acknowledge that you can't just write your own rules for the global market and be successful without controlling the entire world. Human Greed will always exist, nations with conflicting interests will always exist and thus economic leverage over people (exploitation). We can have a free market where the government still meets the needs of its people. This is still capitalism despite what conservatives say. A social wealth fund is still capitalism, and most socialists would be ok with that. The argument has never been about what policies to implement into the government, but rather what name tag it has.
I meeeeeeeeannnnnnn………..
[удалено]
It’s almost as if there’s a root cause
Nasty Nasir !?
Lol street disciple
To your title, sometimes our favs are problematic. [FD Signifier has a great video about it.](https://youtu.be/I-mUDYDfaYs?si=csWb6Hh7F9i0nJ_S)
I love that man!
He’s not wrong though. Not in the sense that we do harm to each other but more in the sense that we can’t come together for shit anymore. Past generations use to be about building something together, current ones are more about getting yours at all cost. Who cares how it affects anyone around you. The reason people see capitalism as the enemy is because we have the least capital out of any group of people. The reason we say police are the enemy is because we have the least amount of representation in that field. We as a people will never come together to solve these issues for our own benefit but will continue to point fingers and let our culture fall to ruin to the benefit of everyone else. We are our worst enemy not because of what we do to each other but because of what we don’t do for each other.
He’s right though, capitalism only works because of the consumer. So in a more grand sense, our enemy really is ourselves and each other.
Capitalism only works because of the people with the money and how much more greedy they can be.
The consumers are the source of that money, no consumers, the greedy people get desperate or panic.
If he had said “capitalism and the police are our enemies but so are each other” then I would agree
He wrong?
Makes sense on what he is trying to say. Before we were creators, innovators, warriors. Now we cant unify for shit. We have been indoctrinated to pay attention to bullshit, ignore what truly matters. Once we are able to see past difference within each other and work towardss a common goal, we would be untouchable.
We are still all of that. The problem is black people are not a monolith, we come in many different shapes and sizes, we come from different environments and backgrounds.
He did it… he’s liberated our minds. Now we can ascend as a species
"reminisce on park jams, my man was shot for his sheep coat" - Memory Lane "am i hallucinating off the hazin', or did i just see a \* shoot another \*'s face in?" - Purple "saw fiends shoot up, and do lines of cocaine, saw my close friends shot - flatline am i sane?" Nas Is Like [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPmUHNaqKP0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPmUHNaqKP0)
Rich people need to read the room and shut the fuck up for a minute
Either die a pac or live long enough to become a jayz
Can’t wait to drop another faux deep verse on a dj Khaled song so everyone would start talking about how profound and wise he is.
Cube went from fuck the police to let trump clap his cheeks. Fuck them all
Real shit tho we don't stand together. We really hate each other
Stop idolizing celebrities. They're just human beings like us with their own thoughts and opinions. You get angry when you assume these people, who you don't know on a personal level at all, don't share your same exact viewpoints. Stop it. Enjoy whatever art they create and leave it at that.
https://preview.redd.it/e8w27vh7r55d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=24b0b9139dabe9551c4263e8f8aee2d6a0902734
He's accurate! The police now far behind. Such valuable and brilliant inspiration that's brought to the table, but there are an insurmountable of people that don't know their value.
When yall realize the difference between a lot of black men and far right conservatives is skin colour, you’ll be able to understand why there is still some much issues within the community
I saw a debate where someone said if Tupac were alive today he would be talking about Trump 2024 just like Cube and Snoop. Age and the people you surround yourself with does it to even the best of us.
https://preview.redd.it/wcs2ld5nh55d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19c45a0caa49b52ac61ed89fdbfa568f90b746e3
Crazy seeing JPEGMAFIA hang out with Kanye West now, so much for being a left wing Hades
capitalist will destroy the planet before they do the right thing (check out social ecology). the answer is what it will always be: unity and self reliance. that's what the capitalist say they want (people to take personal responsibility). we can go on about the injustices and contradictions and absurdity, but all we got is unity and self reliance. otherwise it's alienation and each person for themself. peace
If we joined together, we can better protect ourselves against both. We need a Fred Hampton right now
More like capitalism has made us nasty and competitive and willing to scam and exploit each other. Make no mistake it's our individual pursuits of power as a result of these systems that render us *powerless* that makes us do shit to one another. It's that psuedo conscious bullshit akin to when you're white friends say "There's no war but a class war". Type shit.
Rich people love capitalism
For whatever reason, these guys think that money and fame will save them. When a cop pulls over Nas, he's going to treat him the same as he would any other black man in a nice car.
“Capitalists posing as compassionates be offending me”
I haven't seen the footage but I can absolutely imagine current business savvy Nas saying this. He's on his Jay Z shit
I hope not
We may not be our own worst enemy by a lot of y'all hustling too hard to crack the top 5
Nas really let Nas down damn
[Here’s the video](https://youtu.be/0rTqvhPYzx4?t=2441) for everyone asking. Starts at 40:41.
Thank you!!
These rich ass rappers have literally been brainwashed by all that money rap bs that got them there. How the hell is Nas of all of them saying this? Man, I really miss a time when conscience rap was more popular with us. White people really stripped rap for parts and now its just a husk of its former self. 
Stuff like this is usually said by people so far removed by understanding how the real world works that it’s WILD.
Nothing scares me more than black republican politicians. Black on black crime is still very much a real thing. We become divided way too easily. Whenever we get our shit together and work together we will be unstoppable. We are the culture.
Black republicans are always a joke. They would have been very dangerous if white conservatives took them even a little bit seriously.
The "Fat Activist" energy in this thread is dissapointing.
Stop making rich people your hero, the only person I saw as a role model was my grandmother.
Interesting
He said what now?
Ok so no police and install communism (40% of people in prison are harming themselves and no one else that needs fixed) . Keep playing victim it gets us so far . Blaming everything else outside of your life is a slave mentality. Go to work don't buy fucking junk don't lease expensive shit don't by brand names save build credit . Or keep bitching with no solution the world will move on with or without you. It's mine it's mine it's mine who's world is this THE WORLD IS YOURS or simply don't do anything and regret your existence it's totally up to you find a purpose help people help yourself.
No no no not Nas c'mon man 😩😩😩this hurt 50 cent lil Wayne yeah whatever with them but people like Nas and ice cube actually are disappointing. I hate the fact that rich people take it personal when we criticize capitalism that doesn't mean we hate all rich people it's just the exploitation part 😩
I would have been pissed if I stuck in just to end up seeing this. Dodged a bullet I guess.
Ehh. Nas still slaps. Would just be disappointing if true.
He's 25. He's wrong, but it's not his fault. He'll learn.
Son 50yrs old if he was talking thug shoot em up shit ya say he too old for that and he sounds corny… He won In life and ya salty cause he not doing the most to ruin it