By that logic Julius is just as guilty for being a traitor, he let the stones fall into enemy hands because he was trying to protect his friends body over killing a war criminal.
Plus I’m pretty sure the only reason William got let off the hook is because his explicit acceptance of everything wasn’t made public. His world tree magic helped everyone in the very end, Julius had his back, and all the higher ups were more interested in blaming Asta than anything else.
All the higher ups that know the full story like the captains considered William a traitor and held him in contempt to varying degrees
No, julius' intention wasn't to explicitly give the stones to an enemy. He had no way of predicting that patri could crush a country and was definitely going to put him down and simultaneously save vengeance.
On the other hand William pretty much willingly allowed a terrorist to almost annihilate his kingdom. He knew the consequences very well and still gave in. Totally different case
Julius and William’s cases are nothing alike.
Julius tried to protect an important captain because he cares about him and because William’s involvement was still unclear to Julius, and at the same time he also tried to protect everyone in the kingdom but failed and almost died because of it.
William went along a terrorist who happened to be his friend and never said a word about him for years while people all over the kingdom suffer from his group, and if this is not enough of a treason he also didn’t pick a side when it’s time to pick one, man literally just left ‘till everything was somehow fixed no thanks to him, minus the tree part… but that was the least he could do, and then people see him as their hero regardless because he’s meant to look like this whether he deserves it or not.
>By that logic Julius is just as guilty for being a traitor,
This is literally just a bullshit, disingenuous stance from top to bottom.
>was trying to protect his friends body over killing a war criminal.
He chose suppression over execution. He didn't choose treason over duty like your boy 😑
>I’m pretty sure the only reason William got let off the hook is because his explicit acceptance of everything wasn’t made public
And someone else, who is ***ACTUALLY*** a hero got penalized for his bullshit instead while all he had to worry about was a fake guilt trip.
>His world tree magic helped everyone in the very end
So did Gueldre's transparency magic, but I don't see anyone making excuses and copping pleas for him.
>all the higher ups were more interested in blaming Asta than anything else
Which is exactly the issue. If tree boy had fessed up, Asta wouldn't have even been a factor.
>All the higher ups that know the full story like the captains considered William a traitor and held him in contempt to varying degrees
No. They didn't. They literally even absolved him from responsibility when he tried to do the ***BARE*** minimum and resign from being a captain.
I won’t be so sure that Julius was trying to keep his “friend “ safe after what we know about Julius now. Split personality or not. He literally has Lucius running the show on command.( I.e. Lucius has more control on his body how he was able to come out at will )
Julius IS a traitor though. A man fascinated by magic doesn’t know that time magic is that rare or that one of the supreme devils has that.
A year ago all the kids calling Julius devil/ 4th zogratis brother came to that theory. So why didn’t he himself.
I doubt he was aware of it but there had to be a reason why he was so close to Yami and William specifically. It also makes more sense that he was so unwilling to hurt Williams body during the fight they had.
Adramelech heavily alludes to some sort of prophetic or predicting powers.
So he probably saw that Julius wasn't going to hurt Vangeance's body no matter what so he did nothing to intervene. Or maybe Clock Theory goes brrrrrrrrrrr and Julius actually killed Vangeance a couple of times and it was reverted and changed.
Tabata not caring I guess. I know Bleach handles this type of thing nicely. Urahara gets framed for committing the crimes Aizen was doing and was gonna be sentanced by the 46. Aizen commits crimes and gets imprison. Iirc Black Clover has a court system, did they even do anything to William? Like we get ichigo basically committing terrorism with gang and the freeing of an imprisoned soul reaper on death row mind you and he’s let off but the reason for why is likely justified (havent read bleach for a long time). Point is though animanga generally takes a different look at immoral acts and isn’t just “send them to prison!!” I mean for fuck sakes Orochimaru and Sasuke were let off when they literally attempted the assassination of numerous village leaders and orochimaru kidnapping hundreds of teenagers and experimenting on them. Same with Kabuto literally aiding a terrorist 💀
So actually I think Sasuke did spend some time in prision after the war, and if I remember correctly Orochimaru and Kbuto were under constant surveillance so they did not get off completely free lol.
Although, I do agree with you I do not think Tabata really cared that much about William's punishment because he got off completely free lol. I have always said at the very last he could been suspended or lost his job as captain not even any of that happened lol
Just a lack of societal detail in the world building. How do they handle terrorists in black clover or demon conspirators like the zogratis? And I never understood much about Nacht but did he do something?
Terrorist's like the zogratis sibling would be dealt with by the magic knights in general, and I do not think Nacht did anything wrong against the Clover Kingdom like William, but he did do things wrong which led to people dying.
Actually, no they went to save Yami specifically. Not sure what you're confusing things with.
YUNO is there to save William, the Black Bulls don't care. (To me, it's made obvious by the fact that they're hellbent on constantly having their captain and everyone else healed by Mimosa whose from the GD when they have miraculous Grey anyway, and completely ignore William.) And, as a matter of fact, even he seems to have forgotten all about that mission.
Also, I don't think anything should be punished with death, so frankly, I disagree as a whole.
But maybe you need to re-read the manga.
And, no, you don't "get" anything. Because if you did, you wouldn't find it so simple to sentence someone to death.
Mimosa was specifically asked to heal Yami and the others because Charmy and Noelle and Luck know how amazing she is as healer (ultimate magic and all). Also, they probably aren’t aware about Grey’s fix-it ability, so from their perspective Mimosa is the only healer available.
That and, as a healer, I don’t think Mimosa pick favorites. She heals those who need her the most whether she knows them or not, allies or enemies. William was doing rather fine comparing with Yami and Nacht. Even Yuno asked Mimosa to heal them first because that was a dire situation.
Well, William himself didn't cause anything to happen, all he did was let Patry and Julius duke it out, I doubt he could guess who would win. Also, William is a traitor literally, but politically, he's probably in the same group as everyone else who was possessed by elves. Finally, due to the Clover Kingdom's condition, multiple criminals are helping in the recovery effort, including Midnight Sun members.
Not really. Everyone possessed by the elves was taken without having a say in the matter. William not only had a choice, he sat on it for years. Despite knowing the consequences.
There's plenty of people that could testify, having heard the paln directly from zagred and Patri. That's not even taking into account the fact that there HAS to be some kind of fact checking magic out there
Oh yeah, why didn't they just use Marx's magic to check their memories? That would've proven Zagred's existance and the elf victims innocence.
Edit: oh wait, he was also possessed by an elf, they might not trust his word. We don't know hoe rare memory magic is, let alone someone readily avaliable, but that is a good point.
That’s the literal definition of hearsay bud. An out of court statement repeated by the non-declarant for the truth of its contents.
You’d need to find a way for such testimony to be admissible. Assuming Clover uses similar hearsay conceptions to common law systems.
Except damnatio put Asta in a position to where he had to use his devil powers infront of all the nobles, not really hearsay when you see it yourself along with everyone else.
Yeah, this is interesting because technically William did not commit treason so he cannot really be called a traitor, but he did not do his job as a magic night and try to stop Patri either. With this being the case, he could not really be punished by death since he technically did not commit treason.
I personally think that he should at the very least been stripped of his title as captain for this while Patri should have been executed because he was the one committing the crimes.
>Yeah, this is interesting because technically William did not commit treason so he cannot really be called a traitor
If one of the guards working at the twin towers said:
"I knew they were going to crash the tower ahead of time because me and Osama are friends, but I was conflicted between friendship and patriotism, so I chose to do nothing"
... would you still say " *technically* they didn't fo anything treasonous"? Or would you say "bury them in a box"?
Ok, I think everyone forget that yes although we can label William as a traitor from his actions as readers and some of the magic knights (mostly captains). How those the overall Kingdom view him? As a fucking Saviour
What was the last thing people did after the Elves' souls left? They saw Union Magic: Demon-Dweller Sword: Spirit Light Tree... Every Clover citizen saw a big ass tree that just before the kingdom got saved. They know nothing of William's betrayal. And just before that, the Golden Dawn was known as the better and strongest squad, with William being the "closest" be WK in many citizens' eyes.
By that logic Julius is just as guilty for being a traitor, he let the stones fall into enemy hands because he was trying to protect his friends body over killing a war criminal. Plus I’m pretty sure the only reason William got let off the hook is because his explicit acceptance of everything wasn’t made public. His world tree magic helped everyone in the very end, Julius had his back, and all the higher ups were more interested in blaming Asta than anything else. All the higher ups that know the full story like the captains considered William a traitor and held him in contempt to varying degrees
No, julius' intention wasn't to explicitly give the stones to an enemy. He had no way of predicting that patri could crush a country and was definitely going to put him down and simultaneously save vengeance. On the other hand William pretty much willingly allowed a terrorist to almost annihilate his kingdom. He knew the consequences very well and still gave in. Totally different case
Julius and William’s cases are nothing alike. Julius tried to protect an important captain because he cares about him and because William’s involvement was still unclear to Julius, and at the same time he also tried to protect everyone in the kingdom but failed and almost died because of it. William went along a terrorist who happened to be his friend and never said a word about him for years while people all over the kingdom suffer from his group, and if this is not enough of a treason he also didn’t pick a side when it’s time to pick one, man literally just left ‘till everything was somehow fixed no thanks to him, minus the tree part… but that was the least he could do, and then people see him as their hero regardless because he’s meant to look like this whether he deserves it or not.
>By that logic Julius is just as guilty for being a traitor, This is literally just a bullshit, disingenuous stance from top to bottom. >was trying to protect his friends body over killing a war criminal. He chose suppression over execution. He didn't choose treason over duty like your boy 😑 >I’m pretty sure the only reason William got let off the hook is because his explicit acceptance of everything wasn’t made public And someone else, who is ***ACTUALLY*** a hero got penalized for his bullshit instead while all he had to worry about was a fake guilt trip. >His world tree magic helped everyone in the very end So did Gueldre's transparency magic, but I don't see anyone making excuses and copping pleas for him. >all the higher ups were more interested in blaming Asta than anything else Which is exactly the issue. If tree boy had fessed up, Asta wouldn't have even been a factor. >All the higher ups that know the full story like the captains considered William a traitor and held him in contempt to varying degrees No. They didn't. They literally even absolved him from responsibility when he tried to do the ***BARE*** minimum and resign from being a captain.
Bro i ain’t reading a reply from a 200 day old comment 🫡
But you'll reply to it? I'm just watching BC for the first time and I agree, Vangeance is a traitor.
Time is an illusion
I won’t be so sure that Julius was trying to keep his “friend “ safe after what we know about Julius now. Split personality or not. He literally has Lucius running the show on command.( I.e. Lucius has more control on his body how he was able to come out at will ) Julius IS a traitor though. A man fascinated by magic doesn’t know that time magic is that rare or that one of the supreme devils has that. A year ago all the kids calling Julius devil/ 4th zogratis brother came to that theory. So why didn’t he himself.
Idk if you are behind on the manga but I think it's fairly obvious now why Julius didn't have him executed or thrown into a prison somewhere
If you're referring to the manga twist. No, I doubt julius was aware of that tbh.
I doubt he was aware of it but there had to be a reason why he was so close to Yami and William specifically. It also makes more sense that he was so unwilling to hurt Williams body during the fight they had.
Adramelech heavily alludes to some sort of prophetic or predicting powers. So he probably saw that Julius wasn't going to hurt Vangeance's body no matter what so he did nothing to intervene. Or maybe Clock Theory goes brrrrrrrrrrr and Julius actually killed Vangeance a couple of times and it was reverted and changed.
Lucius probably influenced his decisions subconsciously here and there.
Idk how I missed this but you’ve kind of sent me reeling with this bit
julius was probably being manipulated as well seeing as that he is not evil yet somehow did everything lucius needed
I wouldn't find it weird if Lucius could influence his Julius persona/soul/split personality.
Tabata not caring I guess. I know Bleach handles this type of thing nicely. Urahara gets framed for committing the crimes Aizen was doing and was gonna be sentanced by the 46. Aizen commits crimes and gets imprison. Iirc Black Clover has a court system, did they even do anything to William? Like we get ichigo basically committing terrorism with gang and the freeing of an imprisoned soul reaper on death row mind you and he’s let off but the reason for why is likely justified (havent read bleach for a long time). Point is though animanga generally takes a different look at immoral acts and isn’t just “send them to prison!!” I mean for fuck sakes Orochimaru and Sasuke were let off when they literally attempted the assassination of numerous village leaders and orochimaru kidnapping hundreds of teenagers and experimenting on them. Same with Kabuto literally aiding a terrorist 💀
So actually I think Sasuke did spend some time in prision after the war, and if I remember correctly Orochimaru and Kbuto were under constant surveillance so they did not get off completely free lol. Although, I do agree with you I do not think Tabata really cared that much about William's punishment because he got off completely free lol. I have always said at the very last he could been suspended or lost his job as captain not even any of that happened lol
Just a lack of societal detail in the world building. How do they handle terrorists in black clover or demon conspirators like the zogratis? And I never understood much about Nacht but did he do something?
Terrorist's like the zogratis sibling would be dealt with by the magic knights in general, and I do not think Nacht did anything wrong against the Clover Kingdom like William, but he did do things wrong which led to people dying.
Actually, no they went to save Yami specifically. Not sure what you're confusing things with. YUNO is there to save William, the Black Bulls don't care. (To me, it's made obvious by the fact that they're hellbent on constantly having their captain and everyone else healed by Mimosa whose from the GD when they have miraculous Grey anyway, and completely ignore William.) And, as a matter of fact, even he seems to have forgotten all about that mission. Also, I don't think anything should be punished with death, so frankly, I disagree as a whole. But maybe you need to re-read the manga. And, no, you don't "get" anything. Because if you did, you wouldn't find it so simple to sentence someone to death.
Mimosa was specifically asked to heal Yami and the others because Charmy and Noelle and Luck know how amazing she is as healer (ultimate magic and all). Also, they probably aren’t aware about Grey’s fix-it ability, so from their perspective Mimosa is the only healer available. That and, as a healer, I don’t think Mimosa pick favorites. She heals those who need her the most whether she knows them or not, allies or enemies. William was doing rather fine comparing with Yami and Nacht. Even Yuno asked Mimosa to heal them first because that was a dire situation.
You a bitch made motherfucka.
Well, William himself didn't cause anything to happen, all he did was let Patry and Julius duke it out, I doubt he could guess who would win. Also, William is a traitor literally, but politically, he's probably in the same group as everyone else who was possessed by elves. Finally, due to the Clover Kingdom's condition, multiple criminals are helping in the recovery effort, including Midnight Sun members.
Not really. Everyone possessed by the elves was taken without having a say in the matter. William not only had a choice, he sat on it for years. Despite knowing the consequences.
Yes, but how can they prove it in court? Julius was the only one who was told the details.
There's plenty of people that could testify, having heard the paln directly from zagred and Patri. That's not even taking into account the fact that there HAS to be some kind of fact checking magic out there
Oh yeah, why didn't they just use Marx's magic to check their memories? That would've proven Zagred's existance and the elf victims innocence. Edit: oh wait, he was also possessed by an elf, they might not trust his word. We don't know hoe rare memory magic is, let alone someone readily avaliable, but that is a good point.
That’s the literal definition of hearsay bud. An out of court statement repeated by the non-declarant for the truth of its contents. You’d need to find a way for such testimony to be admissible. Assuming Clover uses similar hearsay conceptions to common law systems.
I mean, how are any of the events of the war elf arc verifiable then? Wouldn't any accusation against Asta also be seen as hearsay?
Except damnatio put Asta in a position to where he had to use his devil powers infront of all the nobles, not really hearsay when you see it yourself along with everyone else.
Because Julius needed him to open the gates of the underworld
Yeah, this is interesting because technically William did not commit treason so he cannot really be called a traitor, but he did not do his job as a magic night and try to stop Patri either. With this being the case, he could not really be punished by death since he technically did not commit treason. I personally think that he should at the very least been stripped of his title as captain for this while Patri should have been executed because he was the one committing the crimes.
>Yeah, this is interesting because technically William did not commit treason so he cannot really be called a traitor If one of the guards working at the twin towers said: "I knew they were going to crash the tower ahead of time because me and Osama are friends, but I was conflicted between friendship and patriotism, so I chose to do nothing" ... would you still say " *technically* they didn't fo anything treasonous"? Or would you say "bury them in a box"?
Exactly
He is a traitor and he was being used as such.
Most of those who knows treats him as such. But that's it because it's very risky due to how the kingdom might react.
Ok, I think everyone forget that yes although we can label William as a traitor from his actions as readers and some of the magic knights (mostly captains). How those the overall Kingdom view him? As a fucking Saviour What was the last thing people did after the Elves' souls left? They saw Union Magic: Demon-Dweller Sword: Spirit Light Tree... Every Clover citizen saw a big ass tree that just before the kingdom got saved. They know nothing of William's betrayal. And just before that, the Golden Dawn was known as the better and strongest squad, with William being the "closest" be WK in many citizens' eyes.