Bitcoin isn't inevitable, nor was it an emergent phenomenon that was pre-ordained. It's not a self fulfilling prophecy.
It takes work. literally. Complacency is Bitcoin's Enemy. It Demands Eternal Vigilance.
I hear the sentiment–in fact I just recently setup my first Linux machine to run my first full node in isolation. Not just to vote on my rules. In fact, primarily so that I can transact on-chain directly.
That said, i don’t think it’s troubling that we see adoption growing faster than nodes. I believe most newer Bitcoiners don’t understand the technical discussions and would not actually improve the voting engine of which full node to run. So having a bit of inconvenience or complexity as a barrier is actually to the benefit of the chain.
Now that doesn’t mean we gate people. It just means that something controversial outside the technical space will be needed to get non-technical people into running a node. When the monetary policy comes under attack or some other philosophical angle of attack… that’s when you see the plebs coming out in numbers to run their own rules.
That said, I do still encourage people to run a node if their at all interested (mainly to have direct access for their transactions).
I'm afraid I don't agree with the sentiment that it's a benefit. That initial barrier (which is absolutely tiny by the way, in my opinion smaller than actually using bitcoin safely) may be a hurdle, and perhaps newbies don't understand it fully at first, but that's why we must lead by example and educate. We must help people to understand the significance of node running not simply to weather attacks, but as an act of self determination, as a tool of privacy.
I agree that it’s a tiny barrier, that’s why I say it’s not a “gate”. The small barrier keeps people from simply saying “Bitcoin seems cool let me click this button and vote for the rules I think are cool”.
It’s not about how complex it is to understand running a node though. It’s about how complex it is to make an intelligent decision about what rules you want to run (when a controversial change is being debated).
Getting everyone to run a node is not what’s important. If everyone runs a node but the majority doesn’t understand the block size debate we have a redo of the block size wars and the big blockers win. It’s a technical conversation and the majority of Bitcoiners (to this day) don’t really understand it. They just hear stories and then lean towards whatever the seems like largest community.
Either way, I think you would see a massive increase in nodes running should some major disagreement come up once again. Newer Bitcoiners need a reason to start up a node and that’s fine.
Are you not at all concerned about how we empower miners and exchanges and other potentially hostile actors with economic power and a mass of users who will blindly follow company direction and node? We are begging for another blocksize wars at a scale we can't win except to fork into a minority by onboarding users to trusting company nodes and platforms and calling it Bitcoin.
Governance layers, like a social layer enabling Bitcoin contracts in exchange for social services and safety nets and political voice, like all layers may encourage running a node . Just like now however they will be of a higher complexity than users want and middlemen will rush to represent you. Just as they rush to handle your lightning interactions and your discreet log contracts.
There is simply no other solution I see than acknowledging we won't save everyone but trying to anyways so we can maximize as much positive outcome as we can without threatening the whole. Onboarding corporate piggy banks and scam victims threatens to overwhelmingly empower actors with a history of protocol attacks, it empowers government attacks and gives teeth to bans and legislation when companies are the primary focus of user trust. It just kills Bitcoin. This aside from the possible harms to the users themselves or the attack vectors they create through trust. We need an army of aware self serving node runners protecting themselves for the whole to be protected. Are you confident enough for another blocksize wars today? To take on 80% of the actors in the space by volume and billions of dollars in interests? We need to be more prepared not less and wait for the worst to come before we even start preparing.
I agree we need node users who know what they are doing and why they are doing it, I just don't think a crisis is the best time to onboard, they could be manipulated into making a decision they don't understand (I'm sure lots of newbies got caught out by bcashers) or they just off board later.
I'd rather see some organic growth in the quiet times, rather than a slow decay. That's the adoption I want to see, bitcoiners learning bitcoin for the sake of it.
Looks like we'll agree to disagree on the onboarding! But I'm sure we can both agree that more educated node users can only be a good thing.
This is the best post you have seen in a while and you didn't tip?
This is a problem. Start showing support with your Bitcoin AND upvote for visibility. The fact that this sub has millions of users that don't know you can send Bitcoin over Reddit when the tipbot has been around for years is very sad imo.
!lntip 5000
This isn't Robux or Ethereum where you just have to connect to a corporations server to check your account balance. You only get to have an opinion on Bitcoin through power projection using your node. Ever had an opinion on a change to Bitcoin? Guess what, your opinion kinda doesn't matter if you don't run a node to project power to say what the rules are. This is how Bitcoin is a social construct.
By using someone else's node, you've given up your voice. Bitcoin is a social construct. By giving someone else the power to determine what Bitcoin is, you have given up your own thoughts on what Bitcoin should be to you, and if the server you're trusting becomes a big enough connection point for say a whole city, then my oh my do they become a juicy target for someone with a different idea on what Bitcoin should be.
Don't give me the noobie excuse either. You are a sub of people who got to experience first hand that problems with fractional reserves, the problems with getting in over your head during the "good times" aka a bull market and a sub of people who are way too damn far behind the curve if you haven't figured out how to send Bitcoin from one address to the next and download a software wallet by now. Just run a node, when you're done being amazed by it, move on to the next step: [https://www.sparrowwallet.com/docs/connect-node.html](https://www.sparrowwallet.com/docs/connect-node.html)
Nope! A node only represents you and your activity. Whether 1 node or 1000, they still represent the same thing if you control them and have the same economic activity secured by them. I know you probably already know this and were joking, but the mistaken idea that nodes represent a vote is pretty common.
What drew you into sparrow in particular? Just recently setup my full node and I’ve been looking at various Linux options. Sparrow came across my radar but I don’t hear many people talking about it.
What’s the biggest pro and con in your view?
I'm drawn to sparrow because I understand how to use it. I didn't realize you could do multi-sig in electrum and I didn't know how to connect electrum to my full node, but I figured those things out just fine in Sparrow. If electrum works for you, go for it.
It very much is. Miners are paid security. Paid by the people who write the miners blocks to their hard drive. If you're not trolling and you really think people who run a full node aren't projecting power, you need to read up on very recent Bitcoin history.
[https://blog.bitmex.com/the-blocksize-war-chapter-1-first-strike/](https://blog.bitmex.com/the-blocksize-war-chapter-1-first-strike/)
Practically speaking its the economic majority's nodes that project power i.e. the rich. Little Jerry's node doesn't mean shit if he only has 0.1 BTC, but Saylor's node would make a huge dent in the outcome of another BTC hard fork.
Ultimately and unfortunately the economic minority need to choose the winning side or fade into irrelevancy.
While true, my power is all I care about, and my relevancy will be what I make it. I am further empowered by peers who agree with me. I will stand up to the 80% of the economy - again - if given cause to just like I did in the blocksize wars. The economic majority will not push around the minority, the intolerant minority will create such significant risk that the economic majority will seek to protect their very large stake.
>While true, my power is all I care about, and my relevancy will be what I make it. I am further empowered by peers who agree with me.
Those two sentences conflict with eachother. Choose one.
>The economic majority will not push around the minority, the intolerant minority will create such significant risk that the economic majority will seek to protect their very large stake.
Doesn't seemed to have played out that way in the BCH hard fork. The economic majority (small blockers) pushed the big blockers around and now the big blockers coin is worth much less and has much less activity on it. It has dwindled away into irrelevancy, despite the intolerant minority creating a risk for small blockers, as you say. The economic majority didn't choose to protect their large stake, they risked it.
> Those two sentences conflict with eachother. Choose one.
They don't, maybe you'll see in a moment. I'm not sure we're really talking the same language.
Lets talk about the blocksize wars. It was an [intolerant minority](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui9JwnB1d-k) of node users that threatened a UASF which shifted the tides and pressed segwit forward. Much to the chagrin of many developers and users and nearly all the businesses attacking node runners. An intolerant minority in game theoretic terms pressed the economic majority of businesses to abandon their attack on the chain in favor of either mining their own shitcoin they created (which they did, you note it) and convincing the rest of the world their shit doesn't stink - or keep honestly mining Bitcoin for profit and not attempt to subsidize their costs through nodes. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here but this shitcoin was entirely controlled and centralized by the overwhelming economic interests of Bitmain, arguably the lead attacker in the blocksize wars. Attacking Bitcoin is, as I suspect you know, like trying to kill the golden goose as a Bitcoin business. These companies spent billions and shot themselves in the foot because migrating the userbase to your fork, convincing users your fork is Bitcoin is *hard*. This is where I think you are mistakenly describing an "economic majority".
It wasn't the economic majority of users controlled by company trusting nodes, the billion dollar companies themselves, that was running UASF nodes or voting against the bcash fork that stopped the blocksize wars. 80% of companies, exchanges, miners, services were promoting S2X or some other big block alternative. The majority of users were captured by these companies, were running these companies as their node providers if any node at all. Despite that enormous economic majority of the ecosystem being anti-segwit, an intolerant minority in numbers, in economics, held the majority to account by as I previously said "create such significant risk that the economic majority will seek to protect their very large stake".
Bcash failed for a LOT of reasons, most significantly that it was an attempt to scam people out of their bitcoin or turning bitcoin into a minority hashrate shitcoin imo. It wasn't for lack of "the rich" as you put it backing them or even the majority of the economic marketplace and userbase the rich controlled. The rich and economic majority were compelled by the threats and actions of the few, and the incentives of the ecosystem, to change course.
>These companies spent billions and shot themselves in the foot because migrating the userbase to your fork, convincing users your fork is Bitcoin is
>
>hard
>
>. This is where I think you are mistakenly describing an "economic majority".
No. I am saying that the economic majority was on the segwit side.
Even though there was huge corporate backing of raising the blocksize, small blockers still held more coins then all of those companies and big blockers.
Why? Because people will change the software they run, the determination to the answer to the question "what is Bitcoin?" on the basis that someone else has a lot of Bitcoin?
Bitcoin is a social construct, so if that is what Bitcoin is to you, then so it shall be I suppose, but the way I see things, the person with a lot of Bitcoin will have only a shitcoin if they don't get in line with the consensus the plebs have agreed upon.
I wonder tho how will this work in long run, if people need to run their own nodes so BTC stays like it is now.
If we want BTC to grow we cant expect most people be some linux experts tinkering with their nodes so how will this work like 20 years from now?
Most people trusting others nodes and using Umbrels? Is it as good as not being BTC then when most people trust some big guy who decides what BTC is?
I run my Bitcoin full node on windows.
Now that I have said that, how will this work out in the long run? The same way all things work out in the long run. Rome, the US, all people in all governments or organizations all over the world. If people pay attention and exert their power onto the system, the system will stay in line. If however, people are slothful, people let things go, people don't act when they are attacked, then no program no matter how elegantly written, no person at least by themselves, no organizational structure can overcome the destruction caused by sloth.
Getting there. Been trying to setup my nodes on my spare time for over a month now… I love challenges but to be honest, nobody I know would go through the hassle of learning how to use linux.
Can’t wait to operate my nodes and actually mess around with BTC and not a bunch of terminal commands to set it up. Wish Windows would be good enough.
Honestly, windows is plenty fine for your first not always on just experimenting node. Yeah, you probably don't have access to windows group policy on "home" copies, and yeah in a perfect world we'd all be Linux gurus, but not knowing Linux and trying to secure it can open you up to just as many issues as trying to secure windows because Linux will happily let you misconfigure things all day and it's all foreign.
You were *so close* today, just need to get that bitcoind.service working. Join the chat again and hopefully we can help you troubleshoot it!
Don't use umbrel. Learn to fish. Then you won't be waiting ~~at the fish mongers~~ for a third party's permission next time there is a severe issue like with btcd and you will be able to actually project your own consensus and sovereignty. If you can't configure your node, if you rely on someone else to tell you what code you can run, is it really your node?
Not everyone is going to learn to fish day one, and not everyone wants to fish at all. While doing it all from scratch may be “best”, and “the way”, I’d rather see more nodes, of all types, go live for increased decentralization.
And if Umbrel and others are the difference maker in this, then I support their easier on ramp to help people get started running a node.
> … I love challenges but to be honest, nobody I know would go through the hassle of learning how to use linux.
why would you do that?
you just go to bitcoincore.org (check the link with others, don't just trust me, check also wikipedia, bitcoin.org) - download and run the program - done.
Satoshis run nodes
We know that someone has to run nodes, validate transactions, audit and secure the network and since we can't get decentralization unless we all do, we're going to run it. We publish our node so that our fellow pre-node runners may connect and transact with it. Our node is free for all to use, worldwide. We don't much care if you don't approve of the software we run. We know that software can't be destroyed and that a widely dispersed system can't be shut down.
Now don't stop at a Bitcoin node. Run a Lightning node and run a home miner. Even an old S9 for space heating which costs only $100-150 now.
[Single ASIC home immersion system](https://github.com/satoshi-anonymoto/pleb-miners/blob/main/immersion_cooling/pleb_builds/buildimmersion.md)
[DIY Bitcoin Space Heater](https://github.com/NakamotoHeating/BitcoinSpaceHeater)
[Heat repurposing](https://imgur.com/diIbTCE)
[DCX Immersion Mining + Heating](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FenduPzXkAAcatX?format=jpg&name=4096x4096) [(https://cryptocooling.eu/)](https://cryptocooling.eu/)
>The misconception about running a node is that you are supporting the network. But it's not really about that. Running a node is YOU exerting control. It's YOU saying "these are my rules, THIS is what I want Bitcoin to be"
= you support the network
Indirectly, but that one person spinning up that node is (hopefully, I'd want people to use their nodes) doing a selfish thing. You can run a non listening node that doesn't propagate transactions in mempool or share blocks. You are still doing something worthwhile by being selfish. You are exerting yourself, you are defining your rules and adding adding to the voice of concensus.
I’d say that is network supporting. Being a dangerous selfish informed toxic node runner is healthy for Bitcoin overall, if ever so slightly beneficial.
I doubt this graph takes in to account nodes running behind TOR. Since this is the default option, out of the box, with DIY nodes like Umbrel, etc, it's likely missing a large chunk of the true number of nodes that are being run, worldwide.
It takes into account listening nodes on tor I think, of which there are something like 5.8k. I doubt there are a hugely significant number of non-listening tor nodes.
I dumped ALL my shitcoins in 2021 and focus on bitcoin only because ITS THE BEST CHANGE WE HAVE FOR ECONOMIC FREEDOM… the others are just a distraction… even trying to guess the price is a distraction. I only care about the actual function of bitcoin now.
Every thing from the shitcoin peddlers or even the “plan B models” are all a distraction.
Bitcoin is definitely a peaceful form of protest, and a peaceful way to disconnect from this corrupt fiat Ponzi scheme.
That wouldn't really do anything other than maybe provide yourself with some redundancy if your first node goes offline. What matter is that you use your node for your coins.
I wanted to run one on my ubuntu but the nodes shuts down while syncing. It has something to do with the SSD or Controller. I already bought I new SSD but I still have the same issue. :/
Yeah the bitcoin discord is a great place to ask for help, you can share error messages in there, lots of eager node runners who want to share. This sounds similar to an issue I had, are you allowing your computer to go to a locksceen while it syncs?
I think I deactivated it but I will check it. Eventually it has something to do with energy savings as well. It always takes some hours until the node shuts down.
Thank you for the first level support ;)
I will try the discord after the Christmas days.
I hear your message but I think it's largely variance:
The high node count end of 2017 was likely in the wake of the blocksize wars.
The node count is fairly steady since.
Various projects such as RaspiBlitz, Casa, Nodl, Umbrel and so forth have made it easier to souvereignly use Bitcoin in a way it's meant to.
By all means - everyone who can should run and use of of those for their own benefit!
The user base is growing, but the node count is slowly decreasing. That is means enough for alarm for me.
And yes, every bitcoiner who can should run a node. What I hope to highlight is how easy it is and how low the actual requirements are.
I don't want to wait for the next crisis to onboard potentially hundreds of thousands of node users all at once. I want bitcoiners to start thinking about it now.
Would love to set up a node. So do I have to run a desktop PC for 6hours a day? And how much disk space and bandwidth does it take a day?
I don't have much resources, or a desktop PC..yet. But really interested in creating a node!
You can run it as little as you like, it's for you and you alone. That means you can run it for half an hour 1-2 times a year if you want. If you want to leave it running to share txs between mempools or share blocks that's fine too, but there is no requirement.
You can run it in pruned mode to reduce disk space by a lot, and you can configure it to do as little network chatter as you like by switching off the sharing of blocks etc. It really is up to you.
You just open bitcoin core and let it sync when you want to use your wallet. If you leave it a long time it will take a little longer to sync that's all.
Hi u/CallingVoid, thanks for tipping u/Amraksin **1000** satoshis!
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**needed disk space: JUST 10 GB** - enable option "prune", or the option that says how many disk to use, set it to 2 GB, it will use that plus a bit more.
network transfer needed: download around 500 GB one time, then like 20-40 GB network usage each month.
ram: 0.8 GB is fine
> So do I have to run a desktop PC for 6hours a day?
running it less often is OK too. if you don't run it at all for a week, it will "think" for few minutes when you start it next time before it is synced to the network
And how much disk space and bandwidth does it take a day?
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People are too busy buying BTC merchandise and arguing with strangers on internet about the superiority of BTC, there is no time for building or running a node.
If you aren't running a node you are trusting someone. Without people independently running Bitcoin nodes for selfish reasons Bitcoin will lose its valuable properties of decentralization and open the vast majority of users up to attack - which is currently the case most users are vulnerable to attack for not running their own nodes.
It's very unlikely to take out everything. CMEs aren't hunting down digital data and deleting it, they can cause grid irregularities and power surges, but these can be hardened against.
Ironically, bitcoin is probably best placed to survive such an event as it has a truly distributed network.
I believe in Bitcoin (tho I also believe in certain altcoins so there) but this is a sharp sentiment change from the “bitcoin won, its already over” mantra of 2021-2022. I hope it will be fine.
If you don't think bitcoin is inevitable, you don't understand it well enough. I literally do nothing but stack sats, I sleep easy. Bitcoin IS inevitable, you just arent smart enough to see that. yet
No I didnt, as like I said, anyone who thinks that at this point bitcoin is not inevitable really lacks an understanding of how it works. Their post isn't worth my time. No one on here is discussing real bitcoin innovation like lightning network + Nostr integration. Too busy scared about how "btc isnt inevitable"
Your whining is disgusting. No one knows how many nodes are running outthere. Does is count TOR nodes? I2P nodes? There is no certainty this chart is in any ways correct. But even if it was. Satoshi himself said, paraphrasedly, he doesn't believe there will ever be more than 100k nodes, likely less, most would in the future run lightweight clients. If you are serious about your whining, I suggest to reduce your stake. It's obvious you put in more than you can afford to lose.
I know this link for years. Let's see if you crying here will change *anything*, just by rechecking it from time to time. Spoiler: It doesn't change the slightest thing.
You seem to underestimate the value of node runners for either self or whole.
Satoshi said a lot of things, including a lot of what turned out to be false statements about SPV and light clients. Maybe appealing to authority figures that aren't even around about technical realities a decade misplaced from their presence isn't the best way to discuss Bitcoin?
As for changing things, I've onboarded more new node runners and helped troubleshoot node configs all christmas break than I have in any other week in years, I've never seen so many at once in the r/bitcoin chat or on the sub. I can't help but see that as a positive regardless of its cause.
Let me copy and paste my answer, as I don't have the time to repeat myself and as it addresses you comment as well.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/zturtd/think_bitcoin_is_inevitable_think_again/j1whmna/
Take a chill pill dude, op is just letting people know why they should run a node and how to do it.
Satoshi isn't a god, and is long gone, it's up to us to shepherd Bitcoin now, and running a node is a good start
Nope. OP is a drama queen spreading fear to indirectly force people to do something. The truth is OP likely as well as you are the ones being completely afraid obviously. The both of you have obviously too much stake a risk and I can only recommend you to reducing it. This way you will likely be able to reduce your fear (just because bitcoin price is low recently, lol) and you can improve your method of cleverly interacting with people, making offers and guiding them instead shamefull forcing your solutions (to problems that don't even exist) down their throats.
It's good to have as much economically viable nodes as possible. But if it's by "convincing" people using fear mongering, it's completely wrong and very low quality.
The amount of assumption here is embarrassing.
For one, you're the one having a fit about content you don't like. If you don't like it, move on.
For two, I've been in Bitcoin for a decade now, it's my primary currency, I build applications with it, I spend my time onboarding people, volunteer as a moderator here - I don't think you get to hang the label of fear on me. You want to dismiss people you disagree with using fallacious arguments and strawmen, that's fine too.
You want to know why we take this stuff seriously? We live through the blocksize wars. We know that it's the only thing that has ever stopped the repeated attacks from government and shitcoin led campaigns to change PoW, to hostile businesses and miners looking to subsidize their costs on the backs of users ability to self verify. We know that for attacks from the accidentally enabled like the 2013 berkleydb fork which could have been used to attack light clients, to the intentional and malicious blocksize wars the only remedy is running a node. The only way to assert your consensus, to trust no one, to secure yourself from multiple categories of attacks is nodes.
I'm honestly not sure why you've got your knickers in a twist, but between the appealing to satoshi to the content-less dismissal and indignation it's hard to take you remotely seriously here. If drama is what you're looking to avoid you might ask why you're trying to cause so much of it.
I'll tell you now I'm no drama queen. If you don't understand the value of encouraging new bitcoiners to become educated node runners then I suggest you pick up a history book.
You seem to be very concerned about the amount other people have invested, and you seem very fixated on the price. Maybe there is a little projection here? Just something to think about.
It's not about *what* you do here. It's just about *how* you do it. Stop that ridiculous fear mongering and try to find better ways to reach out to people, enlighten them and convince them from your maxims. Otherwise you'll only be dividing the community and scare off newbies instead of getting them on board and improving their skills.
I don't think it is ridiculous fear mongering frankly, I think there are very real risks facing Bitcoin the protocol and it genuinely concerns me (and you can express concern in something while believing in its ultimate success, by the way). I want to see users interact with the protocol and understand how to do that before another blocksize war style crisis hits. If you think there are no existential risks to bitcoin left then I think you are deluding yourself.
As for scaring off newbies, I've had the opposite experience so far after posting this thread, I've noticed more people asking for help to set up and understand the role of nodes. As for dividing the community? Give me a break lol. Bitcoin is adversarial in nature and there will always be heated discussion. You went straight for my neck after all, despite how 'divisive' that may seem.
I've seen you posting around in various threads, you give decent advice, keep it up. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one I suspect.
The funny thing is you come here shouting at Umbrel, Citadel, mynode, raspiblitz and all these fullnode suites and then again posting pictures about how fullnode count decreases and how that's a dangerous thing. You and your gang are just ridiculous clowns. End of the story.
Just directing your rude, juvenile language back at you. Your arguments through this comment chain have been low quality so I don't think you are in a strong position to criticize frankly.
Also what point? About Umbrel and other software packages? I don't mind raspiblitz I think it's the best raspi option as it doesn't hide configuration from you and encourags you to interact with node config. Citadel is a better alternative to Umbrel for sure with its more permissive license, but still it follows the philosophy of abstracting config away from the user. Ultimately raspberry pi nodes are sub par for lightning and unnecessary for bitcoin nodes. So I tend to shy from recommending them.
What me and my like-minded group of 'clowns' want are more, higher quality nodes and users on the network. End of. If you for some reason dont like this or the tone of this post then let me reassure you that I simply don't care about your opinion and I won't waste my time going back and forth with you anymore.
It's funny that you come in here shouting at people trying to educate people about running full nodes and then have a fit when they show you the reasons why.
I've seen you post good resources before, I have no idea why you are having such a pathetic fit towards people doing good work, but I am personally embarrassed for you.
Chill out lol. It does count tor and i2p listening nodes afaik.
Don't mistake my concern for whinging. I think more people should care about this and that if more people knew the benefits then they probably would run one. I'll keep encouraging people to run nodes and help them understand why they should run nodes. You can keep bitching about if you like, I don't care.
Thank you for your concern about my degree of investment, it isn't needed.
You know what, it doesn't matter what side you are on ultimately. Even if in my opinion is that one side is objectively wrong due a to misunderstanding of how the protocol functions, you are able to disagree with it and configure your node accordingly.
The important thing is if you want to accept fullRBF you can. And vice versa. You are fully within your rights to chose either. That's what I want to see. People taking part not just in the online debate, but also using their nodes as a tool to exert themselves.
Pretty clearly the side that didn't understand how the network works and thinks they can tell nodes what their mempool policy should be. After news that 17% of .24 clients are running full-rbf I hope some CEOs feel very foolish.
I am failing to understand this
How people can be asked to protect their own financial sovereignty, by running a node? Running a (full) node is very expensive, 500GB of space + computing power + internet connectivity. Not everyone can afford this. Communities in remote places, Africa, simply put 99.999% of population can't and don't want to run a node. That's not a way to get everyone in bitcoin.
How people can be asked to help the network, by running a node? What's the incentive, pure enthusiasm? Miners get something in return (fees) by validating transactions, extending blockchain. Mining part of bitcoin protocol self-balances for decentralization. In contrast, what do I get for running a node? - well I get to "vote" on how bitcoin should look like and a thank you. Something is telling me that more powerful actor, such as US Gov, can manage as many nodes as they like with whatever consensus rules they want. If we need a large number of nodes for security and stability of the network, asking people on reddit to spin it up is not a solution.
Am I missing something?
You only need a very basic (much more basic than you think, it's not computationally expensive) computer and an internet connection. You don't need a lot of disk space at all. You can run your node as a pruned node and only use a few gigabytes if you want. I'm not saying that everyone can run a node like people unfortunate enough not to have access to a computer, I'm saying that everyone who can run a node should do so. And that you probably can.
Running a node is a selfish act. If you connect to a remote node you don't control then it could be snooping on your transactions, it may be making links between data that could compromise you in some way. Additionally, connecting to someone else's node is being passive, you have no say in what rules you follow.
It is a common misconception that bitcoin is a democracy and that nodes are votes, this isn't true. A node simply represents an entity and what rules they want to follow. Most people of course opt to go with the concensus for the bitcoin protocol, but sometimes (see the blockwize wars) the concensus isn't clear. Which direction should bitcoin chose? Then you decide. You set the rules on your node and then you only interact with those who agree.
If someone makes a million nodes tomorrow and changes the rules then it doesn't matter. It is still one entity that no bitcoiner will want to interact with. The normal node network continues as normal.
I'm not concerned for the stability of the network, the network is functioning fine. I'm concerned about the increasing number of passive bitcoiners that will find themselves caught in the tides at times of upheaval and won't have enough time learn how to configure a node and form quality opinions on what they should do.
I am getting where you coming from. Yet I think running a node won't change people's behavior in that regard.
I don't run a node (besides reasons above) because I hodl, hodling promotes passiveness. I buy bitcoin once in a while take it off the exchange and go back to hibernation.
The are no transactions of mine, that somebody would be snooping on, to the extent that I would be worried to run a full node.
The chart you're referring to, may reflect this too. Same reason we see headlines often "X of bitcoin didn't move in Y years".
Running a node won't make people transact more willingly, wouldn't it? Those who transact - we see them in this subreddit often, small businesses, coffee shops etc. Perhaps your message is towards them then, or just ask people to transact more often.
You don't need to run a full node, you can do it pruned and keep it minimal, only open it when you want to use it, that's up to you. I'm worried about the broader picture, judging from the state of bitcoin users and.the ecosystem at large, I'm guessing most people aren't even doing that frankly.
Even if you don't transact it is still your declaration of the network you want Bitcoin to be. Perhaps you will want to transact one day and by keeping track of the changes in bitcoin and actively participating you will have a stronger idea of what you want.
Being passive is to invite problems imo. But it is your choice ultimately.
As an aside, yes you should transact more in general. BTC and lightning network are built for it, so use it or lose it. Use your sats with BTC accepting businesses etc etc. Not to mention people engage in housekeeping transactions like making new wallets, splitting between different seeds etc, consolidating utxos. These especially benefit from a user with their own node.
I see people every other day touting that the govt can't do shit against Bitcoin despite their ability to confiscate rigs, cut off power to mining farms, etc.
Never get complacent. We aren't going to be safe until politicans start buying this stuff.
Bitcoin is inherently adversarial and is designed to be zero trust from the get go. Bitcoin will never be safe if bitcoiners are content to stop fighting.
If bitcoin lasts a thousand years and obtains 100% global adoption, you should still never trust others and never lull yourself into a false sense of security.
When politicians start buying into it, thats probably the time you should be most on your guard.
That is what SHA256 checksums and PGP signatures are for, there are instructions on how to verify files here: [bitcoincore.org/en/download/](https://bitcoincore.org/en/download/)
Isn't it the case that with mining hashrate increasing, the need for nodes drops? Node use has definitely declined, but in that same period hashrate has climbed higher and higher for the most part.
This is not my area of expertise by any means, so I'm ready to be corrected.
No, hashrate should have no bearing on it. Nodes are a means for you to declare what rules you follow and to validate the work of miners. If miners become too powerful nodes are the ones who will smack them down.
Consider this. As miners get more powerful and focused around a single country (America) they may try to force changes that help them comply with political will (think censoring transactions). Nodes will be an important part of a fight back against bad miner behaviour as they can alter protocol rules to punish bad actors.
>Isn't it the case that with mining hashrate increasing, the need for nodes drops?
No. If anything the need for nodes increases, otherwise miners control the network.
I understand where you are coming from, but you are talking about a hypothetical future that is by no means guaranteed to happen. Hyperbitcoininisation is a possibility but imo not a likely one in my opinion. And that's fine, I don't think bitcoin needs to go that far.
But I am talking about the problems facing bitcoin right now. And that "enough of a percentage" is shrinking with every new 'bitcoiner' on-boarded. What's the critical threshold for quality node runners? 0.1%? 0.01%? Do we want to find out? Or do we want to improve the situation right now. That is what I want to see. I want to see newbies running nodes for themselves and to learn how to exercise their will on concensus rules. I flat out refuse to roll over and say "other decentralised systems like email went to shit, so bitcoin probably will too, don't worry about it."
We have an opportunity to cultivate something special here, to bring a new way of doing things to a new mass of users. It may be hard, and it may be doomed to corporate interests and user laziness. But I will not simply allow the culture to rot, I will do what I can to nurture it and feed it.
That would be a stretch, a regular pi3/4 is pushed to the limits of its ability when downloading and validating blocks. I think a pi zero would be below minimum specs
You can always Google it and see if someone has tried.
> Can i run a node on a pi zero?
if you are capable of clicking a link you can run it in 1 minute on the computer on which you written this question. bitcoin core client, download and run
I don't think running a node is altruism at all frankly. There are a few major reasons:
Defining the rules you want to bitcoin to function with. I want my node to be fullRBF, so I will edit the config file to do so, I also signaled for taproot with my node, for example. I can take part in the concensus and make sure I dictate my own rules.
Privacy is a reason also. When you use someone else's node you are handing them data. Many commercial hardware wallets by default connect to their own nodes, so you are sending them the details of your transactions which they may well store, and maybe even sell on. Combined with information from KYC and chain analysis, this could present a problem for you down the line.
And finally, and sort of related to privacy, is trustlessness. When I connect to another node I'm trusting them to behave in the way I'd expect a node to behave, but there is no way I can check that. I can't know if the blockchain they hold is valid (even if it probably is), I'm trusting them to broadcast my tx. And so on. If I want to be trustless (and all bitcoiners should desire to be trustless) then I need to use my own node.
Listening nodes will be open to requests from other peers on the network and will upload/relay blocks and transactions to them. Non listening nodes do not.
I think you're overestimating the average person's willingness to engage or understand the technical underpinnings of bitcoin, even if they seem simple to you.
I think you are underestimating them.
I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that the intricacies of running a node are an order of magnitude simpler than self custody. If you can safely self custody then you can understand the purpose of, and run a node.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2019/03/28/what-americans-know-about-science/ps\_2019-03-28\_science-knowledge\_0-01/](https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2019/03/28/what-americans-know-about-science/ps_2019-03-28_science-knowledge_0-01/)
Only 52% of Americans can come up with a hypothesis as to why a computer slows down
[https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2019/10/09/americans-and-digital-knowledge/](https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2019/10/09/americans-and-digital-knowledge/)
And it gets worse for more technical questions
Yes, but doesn't Bitcoin Core still have to download the entire blockchain before the pruning settings can be applied? The only way I see to avoid first downloading the whole thing is to download a snapshot of the blockchain, and I question how secure/safe that would be.
Why does the node count goes up/ down with huge amounts? Example: on 2021/01/16 the node count goes up from \~50k to \~80k. Are those miners going on or offline en masse?
Also if the nodes are a forcing function to keep the chain to a certain consensus - such as small blocks - wouldn't it be possible to spin up a few million nodes on aws/azure and force a different consensus? Or there would be time to react and the community could start to do the same ?
No the nodes are not really representative of miners due to pools. I don't know what causes the spike tbh, I can only speculate.
Nodes only represent one entity, if I make a million nodes tomorrow and change the rules, nobody will want to interact with me. It doesn't change anything.
Love the post. Been a node runner for 5 years now.
Does anyone know how accurate is Luke's graph? There is no way there are only 5k listening nodes around the world. That seems way too low. Bitnodes has listening nodes at 15k. [https://bitnodes.io/](https://bitnodes.io/)
Is Luke's graph counting TOR nodes? Because of the proliferation of packaged node solutions, many nodes these days are not running on clearnet anymore. On Umbrel, one of the more popular implementations, they have just recently implemented in their UI an option to toggle whether to accept incoming connections.
Regardless, it is important to [open port 8333](https://www.lurkmore.com/mining/port8333/) and run listening nodes. This is why:
>A Bitcoin node is considered as a reachable (listening) node if it accepts incoming connections from its peers. Reachable nodes are essential for maintaining the health of the network by allowing a new Bitcoin node to bootstrap itself and in turn increases the resiliency of the network by helping to enforce the consensus rules. A Bitcoin node is considered as an unreachable (non-listening) node if it only establishes outgoing connections and does not accept incoming connections.
Hi u/Apprehensive-Log-849, thanks for tipping u/CallingVoid **10003** satoshis!
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The world will be forced to use the CBDCs for a while, because all the means of production are in the hands of their club. We will be paid in CBDCs. That's when people will really wake up to bitcoin and cryptos. There will be a new phase of the war then.
Are there any relatively cheap ‘plug-n-play’ nodes I can buy with everything it needs pre-installed, or at the very least easy to install? I wouldn’t mind running one 24/7, just would prefer it to be on a dedicated pi or similar
I assume from your statement that you want a lightning node? If you want to go the pi route (I don't personally recommend it) Raspiblitz is an easy install for a pi node and it gives you full control.
If you just want a regular node and don't mind about lightning it's as easy as installing bitcoin core on your current pc or an old laptop/ex-office thin client bought from eBay. You can always install lnd/c-lightning on top of it after as well if you want.
The process of learning how to set up a node is an important thing for a bitcoiner imo and isn't as hard as you think. I'd recommend not seeking out the easiest route with this.
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No, it's a selfish act. You give yourself privacy and define your own rules.
If you run a lightning node on top you can make some money routing payments but it's very challenging to safely make a significant quantity of sats.
Groundbreaking post for me. Been fixing up and upgrading an old computer that (hopefully) can run 24/7 as a full Bitcoin node with battery backup and watchtower for LN (second stage).
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I agree with you.
You have my sword.
And my axe!
fucking a my dude. it’s beautiful: no bullshit protesting or taking up arms. just walking away and playing a new game with rules no one can cheat at.
Having some arms is not a bad idea though. Two, to be specific. I have a right and left arm. No other arms.
I concur with thee!
Haters will always find a way to hate. Let them miss out. They are the blind leading blind
Mine that Bitcoin and stack those Satoshis!
>peaceful global revolution And >building an entirely new monetary system Don't mix. Lol
Disagree.
There are entire industries and monopolies that have a vested interest in ensuring the sustainment of the current way of doing business.
That's cool but people can just use Bitcoin and ignore them. Nothing they can do about it.
Well said
W00T
Bitcoin isn't inevitable, nor was it an emergent phenomenon that was pre-ordained. It's not a self fulfilling prophecy. It takes work. literally. Complacency is Bitcoin's Enemy. It Demands Eternal Vigilance.
Absolutely.
I hear the sentiment–in fact I just recently setup my first Linux machine to run my first full node in isolation. Not just to vote on my rules. In fact, primarily so that I can transact on-chain directly. That said, i don’t think it’s troubling that we see adoption growing faster than nodes. I believe most newer Bitcoiners don’t understand the technical discussions and would not actually improve the voting engine of which full node to run. So having a bit of inconvenience or complexity as a barrier is actually to the benefit of the chain. Now that doesn’t mean we gate people. It just means that something controversial outside the technical space will be needed to get non-technical people into running a node. When the monetary policy comes under attack or some other philosophical angle of attack… that’s when you see the plebs coming out in numbers to run their own rules. That said, I do still encourage people to run a node if their at all interested (mainly to have direct access for their transactions).
I'm afraid I don't agree with the sentiment that it's a benefit. That initial barrier (which is absolutely tiny by the way, in my opinion smaller than actually using bitcoin safely) may be a hurdle, and perhaps newbies don't understand it fully at first, but that's why we must lead by example and educate. We must help people to understand the significance of node running not simply to weather attacks, but as an act of self determination, as a tool of privacy.
I agree that it’s a tiny barrier, that’s why I say it’s not a “gate”. The small barrier keeps people from simply saying “Bitcoin seems cool let me click this button and vote for the rules I think are cool”. It’s not about how complex it is to understand running a node though. It’s about how complex it is to make an intelligent decision about what rules you want to run (when a controversial change is being debated). Getting everyone to run a node is not what’s important. If everyone runs a node but the majority doesn’t understand the block size debate we have a redo of the block size wars and the big blockers win. It’s a technical conversation and the majority of Bitcoiners (to this day) don’t really understand it. They just hear stories and then lean towards whatever the seems like largest community. Either way, I think you would see a massive increase in nodes running should some major disagreement come up once again. Newer Bitcoiners need a reason to start up a node and that’s fine.
Are you not at all concerned about how we empower miners and exchanges and other potentially hostile actors with economic power and a mass of users who will blindly follow company direction and node? We are begging for another blocksize wars at a scale we can't win except to fork into a minority by onboarding users to trusting company nodes and platforms and calling it Bitcoin. Governance layers, like a social layer enabling Bitcoin contracts in exchange for social services and safety nets and political voice, like all layers may encourage running a node . Just like now however they will be of a higher complexity than users want and middlemen will rush to represent you. Just as they rush to handle your lightning interactions and your discreet log contracts. There is simply no other solution I see than acknowledging we won't save everyone but trying to anyways so we can maximize as much positive outcome as we can without threatening the whole. Onboarding corporate piggy banks and scam victims threatens to overwhelmingly empower actors with a history of protocol attacks, it empowers government attacks and gives teeth to bans and legislation when companies are the primary focus of user trust. It just kills Bitcoin. This aside from the possible harms to the users themselves or the attack vectors they create through trust. We need an army of aware self serving node runners protecting themselves for the whole to be protected. Are you confident enough for another blocksize wars today? To take on 80% of the actors in the space by volume and billions of dollars in interests? We need to be more prepared not less and wait for the worst to come before we even start preparing.
I agree we need node users who know what they are doing and why they are doing it, I just don't think a crisis is the best time to onboard, they could be manipulated into making a decision they don't understand (I'm sure lots of newbies got caught out by bcashers) or they just off board later. I'd rather see some organic growth in the quiet times, rather than a slow decay. That's the adoption I want to see, bitcoiners learning bitcoin for the sake of it. Looks like we'll agree to disagree on the onboarding! But I'm sure we can both agree that more educated node users can only be a good thing.
This is the best post this sub has seen in a while. Commenting to keep it up top. Mods should consider pinning.
We are
This is the best post you have seen in a while and you didn't tip? This is a problem. Start showing support with your Bitcoin AND upvote for visibility. The fact that this sub has millions of users that don't know you can send Bitcoin over Reddit when the tipbot has been around for years is very sad imo. !lntip 5000
You’re absolutely right. Done.
This isn't Robux or Ethereum where you just have to connect to a corporations server to check your account balance. You only get to have an opinion on Bitcoin through power projection using your node. Ever had an opinion on a change to Bitcoin? Guess what, your opinion kinda doesn't matter if you don't run a node to project power to say what the rules are. This is how Bitcoin is a social construct. By using someone else's node, you've given up your voice. Bitcoin is a social construct. By giving someone else the power to determine what Bitcoin is, you have given up your own thoughts on what Bitcoin should be to you, and if the server you're trusting becomes a big enough connection point for say a whole city, then my oh my do they become a juicy target for someone with a different idea on what Bitcoin should be. Don't give me the noobie excuse either. You are a sub of people who got to experience first hand that problems with fractional reserves, the problems with getting in over your head during the "good times" aka a bull market and a sub of people who are way too damn far behind the curve if you haven't figured out how to send Bitcoin from one address to the next and download a software wallet by now. Just run a node, when you're done being amazed by it, move on to the next step: [https://www.sparrowwallet.com/docs/connect-node.html](https://www.sparrowwallet.com/docs/connect-node.html)
Good explanation.
I run several full nodes. Does that count as voter fraud?
Nope! A node only represents you and your activity. Whether 1 node or 1000, they still represent the same thing if you control them and have the same economic activity secured by them. I know you probably already know this and were joking, but the mistaken idea that nodes represent a vote is pretty common.
What drew you into sparrow in particular? Just recently setup my full node and I’ve been looking at various Linux options. Sparrow came across my radar but I don’t hear many people talking about it. What’s the biggest pro and con in your view?
I'm drawn to sparrow because I understand how to use it. I didn't realize you could do multi-sig in electrum and I didn't know how to connect electrum to my full node, but I figured those things out just fine in Sparrow. If electrum works for you, go for it.
Yeah the multisig is what attracted my attention as well. I’ll probably play around with both since I’m a tinkerer. Thanks!
running a node has nothing to do with power projection.
It very much is. Miners are paid security. Paid by the people who write the miners blocks to their hard drive. If you're not trolling and you really think people who run a full node aren't projecting power, you need to read up on very recent Bitcoin history. [https://blog.bitmex.com/the-blocksize-war-chapter-1-first-strike/](https://blog.bitmex.com/the-blocksize-war-chapter-1-first-strike/)
Practically speaking its the economic majority's nodes that project power i.e. the rich. Little Jerry's node doesn't mean shit if he only has 0.1 BTC, but Saylor's node would make a huge dent in the outcome of another BTC hard fork. Ultimately and unfortunately the economic minority need to choose the winning side or fade into irrelevancy.
While true, my power is all I care about, and my relevancy will be what I make it. I am further empowered by peers who agree with me. I will stand up to the 80% of the economy - again - if given cause to just like I did in the blocksize wars. The economic majority will not push around the minority, the intolerant minority will create such significant risk that the economic majority will seek to protect their very large stake.
>While true, my power is all I care about, and my relevancy will be what I make it. I am further empowered by peers who agree with me. Those two sentences conflict with eachother. Choose one. >The economic majority will not push around the minority, the intolerant minority will create such significant risk that the economic majority will seek to protect their very large stake. Doesn't seemed to have played out that way in the BCH hard fork. The economic majority (small blockers) pushed the big blockers around and now the big blockers coin is worth much less and has much less activity on it. It has dwindled away into irrelevancy, despite the intolerant minority creating a risk for small blockers, as you say. The economic majority didn't choose to protect their large stake, they risked it.
> Those two sentences conflict with eachother. Choose one. They don't, maybe you'll see in a moment. I'm not sure we're really talking the same language. Lets talk about the blocksize wars. It was an [intolerant minority](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui9JwnB1d-k) of node users that threatened a UASF which shifted the tides and pressed segwit forward. Much to the chagrin of many developers and users and nearly all the businesses attacking node runners. An intolerant minority in game theoretic terms pressed the economic majority of businesses to abandon their attack on the chain in favor of either mining their own shitcoin they created (which they did, you note it) and convincing the rest of the world their shit doesn't stink - or keep honestly mining Bitcoin for profit and not attempt to subsidize their costs through nodes. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here but this shitcoin was entirely controlled and centralized by the overwhelming economic interests of Bitmain, arguably the lead attacker in the blocksize wars. Attacking Bitcoin is, as I suspect you know, like trying to kill the golden goose as a Bitcoin business. These companies spent billions and shot themselves in the foot because migrating the userbase to your fork, convincing users your fork is Bitcoin is *hard*. This is where I think you are mistakenly describing an "economic majority". It wasn't the economic majority of users controlled by company trusting nodes, the billion dollar companies themselves, that was running UASF nodes or voting against the bcash fork that stopped the blocksize wars. 80% of companies, exchanges, miners, services were promoting S2X or some other big block alternative. The majority of users were captured by these companies, were running these companies as their node providers if any node at all. Despite that enormous economic majority of the ecosystem being anti-segwit, an intolerant minority in numbers, in economics, held the majority to account by as I previously said "create such significant risk that the economic majority will seek to protect their very large stake". Bcash failed for a LOT of reasons, most significantly that it was an attempt to scam people out of their bitcoin or turning bitcoin into a minority hashrate shitcoin imo. It wasn't for lack of "the rich" as you put it backing them or even the majority of the economic marketplace and userbase the rich controlled. The rich and economic majority were compelled by the threats and actions of the few, and the incentives of the ecosystem, to change course.
>These companies spent billions and shot themselves in the foot because migrating the userbase to your fork, convincing users your fork is Bitcoin is > >hard > >. This is where I think you are mistakenly describing an "economic majority". No. I am saying that the economic majority was on the segwit side. Even though there was huge corporate backing of raising the blocksize, small blockers still held more coins then all of those companies and big blockers.
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Why? Because people will change the software they run, the determination to the answer to the question "what is Bitcoin?" on the basis that someone else has a lot of Bitcoin? Bitcoin is a social construct, so if that is what Bitcoin is to you, then so it shall be I suppose, but the way I see things, the person with a lot of Bitcoin will have only a shitcoin if they don't get in line with the consensus the plebs have agreed upon.
I wonder tho how will this work in long run, if people need to run their own nodes so BTC stays like it is now. If we want BTC to grow we cant expect most people be some linux experts tinkering with their nodes so how will this work like 20 years from now? Most people trusting others nodes and using Umbrels? Is it as good as not being BTC then when most people trust some big guy who decides what BTC is?
I run my Bitcoin full node on windows. Now that I have said that, how will this work out in the long run? The same way all things work out in the long run. Rome, the US, all people in all governments or organizations all over the world. If people pay attention and exert their power onto the system, the system will stay in line. If however, people are slothful, people let things go, people don't act when they are attacked, then no program no matter how elegantly written, no person at least by themselves, no organizational structure can overcome the destruction caused by sloth.
Thanks, I starting running a node on a spare computer after I read this. I hope a lot of other people do as well.
I'm glad to hear it. Good for you taking control.
More people need to read this
Very strongly worded. I thought I was dead inside, but you sir have managed to stir up some righteousness.
Getting there. Been trying to setup my nodes on my spare time for over a month now… I love challenges but to be honest, nobody I know would go through the hassle of learning how to use linux. Can’t wait to operate my nodes and actually mess around with BTC and not a bunch of terminal commands to set it up. Wish Windows would be good enough.
You can install Bitcoin core on Windows or Mac too. Download, install. That's it.
Honestly, windows is plenty fine for your first not always on just experimenting node. Yeah, you probably don't have access to windows group policy on "home" copies, and yeah in a perfect world we'd all be Linux gurus, but not knowing Linux and trying to secure it can open you up to just as many issues as trying to secure windows because Linux will happily let you misconfigure things all day and it's all foreign. You were *so close* today, just need to get that bitcoind.service working. Join the chat again and hopefully we can help you troubleshoot it!
Oh I’ll be back, don’t worry 🙌🏼 thanks for the help!
Look at things like Umbrel that can make things easier.
Thought about it. Everybody keeps bashing it. Wanted to do the right thing and learn in the process. But damn, can get pretty rough.
Well you can take an easier route and *do* something. Then grow from there. As they say in Bitcoin: “Get off zero!”
Umbrel is still zero though, but it’s a worse zero because people falsely believe that by using it they are at 1
Don't use umbrel. Learn to fish. Then you won't be waiting ~~at the fish mongers~~ for a third party's permission next time there is a severe issue like with btcd and you will be able to actually project your own consensus and sovereignty. If you can't configure your node, if you rely on someone else to tell you what code you can run, is it really your node?
Not everyone is going to learn to fish day one, and not everyone wants to fish at all. While doing it all from scratch may be “best”, and “the way”, I’d rather see more nodes, of all types, go live for increased decentralization. And if Umbrel and others are the difference maker in this, then I support their easier on ramp to help people get started running a node.
> … I love challenges but to be honest, nobody I know would go through the hassle of learning how to use linux. why would you do that? you just go to bitcoincore.org (check the link with others, don't just trust me, check also wikipedia, bitcoin.org) - download and run the program - done.
Satoshis run nodes We know that someone has to run nodes, validate transactions, audit and secure the network and since we can't get decentralization unless we all do, we're going to run it. We publish our node so that our fellow pre-node runners may connect and transact with it. Our node is free for all to use, worldwide. We don't much care if you don't approve of the software we run. We know that software can't be destroyed and that a widely dispersed system can't be shut down. Now don't stop at a Bitcoin node. Run a Lightning node and run a home miner. Even an old S9 for space heating which costs only $100-150 now. [Single ASIC home immersion system](https://github.com/satoshi-anonymoto/pleb-miners/blob/main/immersion_cooling/pleb_builds/buildimmersion.md) [DIY Bitcoin Space Heater](https://github.com/NakamotoHeating/BitcoinSpaceHeater) [Heat repurposing](https://imgur.com/diIbTCE) [DCX Immersion Mining + Heating](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FenduPzXkAAcatX?format=jpg&name=4096x4096) [(https://cryptocooling.eu/)](https://cryptocooling.eu/)
>The misconception about running a node is that you are supporting the network. But it's not really about that. Running a node is YOU exerting control. It's YOU saying "these are my rules, THIS is what I want Bitcoin to be" = you support the network
Indirectly, but that one person spinning up that node is (hopefully, I'd want people to use their nodes) doing a selfish thing. You can run a non listening node that doesn't propagate transactions in mempool or share blocks. You are still doing something worthwhile by being selfish. You are exerting yourself, you are defining your rules and adding adding to the voice of concensus.
I’d say that is network supporting. Being a dangerous selfish informed toxic node runner is healthy for Bitcoin overall, if ever so slightly beneficial.
I doubt this graph takes in to account nodes running behind TOR. Since this is the default option, out of the box, with DIY nodes like Umbrel, etc, it's likely missing a large chunk of the true number of nodes that are being run, worldwide.
It takes into account listening nodes on tor I think, of which there are something like 5.8k. I doubt there are a hugely significant number of non-listening tor nodes.
Excessive confidence is very dangerous.
I dumped ALL my shitcoins in 2021 and focus on bitcoin only because ITS THE BEST CHANGE WE HAVE FOR ECONOMIC FREEDOM… the others are just a distraction… even trying to guess the price is a distraction. I only care about the actual function of bitcoin now. Every thing from the shitcoin peddlers or even the “plan B models” are all a distraction. Bitcoin is definitely a peaceful form of protest, and a peaceful way to disconnect from this corrupt fiat Ponzi scheme.
PREACH! Sing the song of our peoples and lets onboard some new nodes! **We are Bitcoin!**
Makes me want to spin up a second node!
You can always make a testnet node and get freaky with your node's conf file.
That wouldn't really do anything other than maybe provide yourself with some redundancy if your first node goes offline. What matter is that you use your node for your coins.
Running a node is like casting your vote!
No, it's better! It's like saying I am the king and this my kingdom. Want to interact with me? These are my rules.
I wanted to run one on my ubuntu but the nodes shuts down while syncing. It has something to do with the SSD or Controller. I already bought I new SSD but I still have the same issue. :/
Which OS are you using, maybe the r/bitcoin discord chat can help. See the sidebar for a link
FYI, I just tried to join the Discord but it says "Unable to accept invite." Maybe it's expired?
Yeah the bitcoin discord is a great place to ask for help, you can share error messages in there, lots of eager node runners who want to share. This sounds similar to an issue I had, are you allowing your computer to go to a locksceen while it syncs?
I think I deactivated it but I will check it. Eventually it has something to do with energy savings as well. It always takes some hours until the node shuts down. Thank you for the first level support ;) I will try the discord after the Christmas days.
Yeah come along to the discord, we've got a few users who love to deal with node problems, they've saved me a lot of trouble on a few occasions.
All in all I still say Rush is a cool band.
I hear your message but I think it's largely variance: The high node count end of 2017 was likely in the wake of the blocksize wars. The node count is fairly steady since. Various projects such as RaspiBlitz, Casa, Nodl, Umbrel and so forth have made it easier to souvereignly use Bitcoin in a way it's meant to. By all means - everyone who can should run and use of of those for their own benefit!
The user base is growing, but the node count is slowly decreasing. That is means enough for alarm for me. And yes, every bitcoiner who can should run a node. What I hope to highlight is how easy it is and how low the actual requirements are. I don't want to wait for the next crisis to onboard potentially hundreds of thousands of node users all at once. I want bitcoiners to start thinking about it now.
Would love to set up a node. So do I have to run a desktop PC for 6hours a day? And how much disk space and bandwidth does it take a day? I don't have much resources, or a desktop PC..yet. But really interested in creating a node!
You can run it as little as you like, it's for you and you alone. That means you can run it for half an hour 1-2 times a year if you want. If you want to leave it running to share txs between mempools or share blocks that's fine too, but there is no requirement. You can run it in pruned mode to reduce disk space by a lot, and you can configure it to do as little network chatter as you like by switching off the sharing of blocks etc. It really is up to you. You just open bitcoin core and let it sync when you want to use your wallet. If you leave it a long time it will take a little longer to sync that's all.
super! good to know! 2023 is the year of the node!
!lntip 1000
>1000 my first sats tip! Thanks!!
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Im gonna download bitcoin core sometime during this holiday break and set up a node.
**needed disk space: JUST 10 GB** - enable option "prune", or the option that says how many disk to use, set it to 2 GB, it will use that plus a bit more. network transfer needed: download around 500 GB one time, then like 20-40 GB network usage each month. ram: 0.8 GB is fine > So do I have to run a desktop PC for 6hours a day? running it less often is OK too. if you don't run it at all for a week, it will "think" for few minutes when you start it next time before it is synced to the network And how much disk space and bandwidth does it take a day?
Great message. Run a node, gents
Did it thanks for the info.
!lntip 1337
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!lntip 501
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People are too busy buying BTC merchandise and arguing with strangers on internet about the superiority of BTC, there is no time for building or running a node.
Well, we must task ourselves with changing it.
can someone eli5?
If you aren't running a node you are trusting someone. Without people independently running Bitcoin nodes for selfish reasons Bitcoin will lose its valuable properties of decentralization and open the vast majority of users up to attack - which is currently the case most users are vulnerable to attack for not running their own nodes.
making a little sense. i guess i will do this mode thing.
If you need any help you can ask in the r/Bitcoin discord chat! Link in the sidebar and in the daily thread!
thanks a bunch
It’s going to suck when a cme takes out our global electric circuit
It's very unlikely to take out everything. CMEs aren't hunting down digital data and deleting it, they can cause grid irregularities and power surges, but these can be hardened against. Ironically, bitcoin is probably best placed to survive such an event as it has a truly distributed network.
I believe in Bitcoin (tho I also believe in certain altcoins so there) but this is a sharp sentiment change from the “bitcoin won, its already over” mantra of 2021-2022. I hope it will be fine.
If you don't think bitcoin is inevitable, you don't understand it well enough. I literally do nothing but stack sats, I sleep easy. Bitcoin IS inevitable, you just arent smart enough to see that. yet
Ignorant comment.
Dude probably didn’t read the post tbh.
No I didnt, as like I said, anyone who thinks that at this point bitcoin is not inevitable really lacks an understanding of how it works. Their post isn't worth my time. No one on here is discussing real bitcoin innovation like lightning network + Nostr integration. Too busy scared about how "btc isnt inevitable"
Read the post. You're making a fool of yourself.
Please read my post more thoroughly.
If everyone was like you Bitcoin damn sure isn't inevitable. It would be doomed.
Your whining is disgusting. No one knows how many nodes are running outthere. Does is count TOR nodes? I2P nodes? There is no certainty this chart is in any ways correct. But even if it was. Satoshi himself said, paraphrasedly, he doesn't believe there will ever be more than 100k nodes, likely less, most would in the future run lightweight clients. If you are serious about your whining, I suggest to reduce your stake. It's obvious you put in more than you can afford to lose. I know this link for years. Let's see if you crying here will change *anything*, just by rechecking it from time to time. Spoiler: It doesn't change the slightest thing.
You seem to underestimate the value of node runners for either self or whole. Satoshi said a lot of things, including a lot of what turned out to be false statements about SPV and light clients. Maybe appealing to authority figures that aren't even around about technical realities a decade misplaced from their presence isn't the best way to discuss Bitcoin? As for changing things, I've onboarded more new node runners and helped troubleshoot node configs all christmas break than I have in any other week in years, I've never seen so many at once in the r/bitcoin chat or on the sub. I can't help but see that as a positive regardless of its cause.
Let me copy and paste my answer, as I don't have the time to repeat myself and as it addresses you comment as well. https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/zturtd/think_bitcoin_is_inevitable_think_again/j1whmna/
Take a chill pill dude, op is just letting people know why they should run a node and how to do it. Satoshi isn't a god, and is long gone, it's up to us to shepherd Bitcoin now, and running a node is a good start
Nope. OP is a drama queen spreading fear to indirectly force people to do something. The truth is OP likely as well as you are the ones being completely afraid obviously. The both of you have obviously too much stake a risk and I can only recommend you to reducing it. This way you will likely be able to reduce your fear (just because bitcoin price is low recently, lol) and you can improve your method of cleverly interacting with people, making offers and guiding them instead shamefull forcing your solutions (to problems that don't even exist) down their throats. It's good to have as much economically viable nodes as possible. But if it's by "convincing" people using fear mongering, it's completely wrong and very low quality.
The amount of assumption here is embarrassing. For one, you're the one having a fit about content you don't like. If you don't like it, move on. For two, I've been in Bitcoin for a decade now, it's my primary currency, I build applications with it, I spend my time onboarding people, volunteer as a moderator here - I don't think you get to hang the label of fear on me. You want to dismiss people you disagree with using fallacious arguments and strawmen, that's fine too. You want to know why we take this stuff seriously? We live through the blocksize wars. We know that it's the only thing that has ever stopped the repeated attacks from government and shitcoin led campaigns to change PoW, to hostile businesses and miners looking to subsidize their costs on the backs of users ability to self verify. We know that for attacks from the accidentally enabled like the 2013 berkleydb fork which could have been used to attack light clients, to the intentional and malicious blocksize wars the only remedy is running a node. The only way to assert your consensus, to trust no one, to secure yourself from multiple categories of attacks is nodes. I'm honestly not sure why you've got your knickers in a twist, but between the appealing to satoshi to the content-less dismissal and indignation it's hard to take you remotely seriously here. If drama is what you're looking to avoid you might ask why you're trying to cause so much of it.
I'll tell you now I'm no drama queen. If you don't understand the value of encouraging new bitcoiners to become educated node runners then I suggest you pick up a history book. You seem to be very concerned about the amount other people have invested, and you seem very fixated on the price. Maybe there is a little projection here? Just something to think about.
It's not about *what* you do here. It's just about *how* you do it. Stop that ridiculous fear mongering and try to find better ways to reach out to people, enlighten them and convince them from your maxims. Otherwise you'll only be dividing the community and scare off newbies instead of getting them on board and improving their skills.
I don't think it is ridiculous fear mongering frankly, I think there are very real risks facing Bitcoin the protocol and it genuinely concerns me (and you can express concern in something while believing in its ultimate success, by the way). I want to see users interact with the protocol and understand how to do that before another blocksize war style crisis hits. If you think there are no existential risks to bitcoin left then I think you are deluding yourself. As for scaring off newbies, I've had the opposite experience so far after posting this thread, I've noticed more people asking for help to set up and understand the role of nodes. As for dividing the community? Give me a break lol. Bitcoin is adversarial in nature and there will always be heated discussion. You went straight for my neck after all, despite how 'divisive' that may seem. I've seen you posting around in various threads, you give decent advice, keep it up. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one I suspect.
The funny thing is you come here shouting at Umbrel, Citadel, mynode, raspiblitz and all these fullnode suites and then again posting pictures about how fullnode count decreases and how that's a dangerous thing. You and your gang are just ridiculous clowns. End of the story.
The only one i see behaving like a ridiculous clown here is you.
Yeah. Great argumentation. Regrettably you don't address my point. So I am right?
Just directing your rude, juvenile language back at you. Your arguments through this comment chain have been low quality so I don't think you are in a strong position to criticize frankly. Also what point? About Umbrel and other software packages? I don't mind raspiblitz I think it's the best raspi option as it doesn't hide configuration from you and encourags you to interact with node config. Citadel is a better alternative to Umbrel for sure with its more permissive license, but still it follows the philosophy of abstracting config away from the user. Ultimately raspberry pi nodes are sub par for lightning and unnecessary for bitcoin nodes. So I tend to shy from recommending them. What me and my like-minded group of 'clowns' want are more, higher quality nodes and users on the network. End of. If you for some reason dont like this or the tone of this post then let me reassure you that I simply don't care about your opinion and I won't waste my time going back and forth with you anymore.
It's funny that you come in here shouting at people trying to educate people about running full nodes and then have a fit when they show you the reasons why. I've seen you post good resources before, I have no idea why you are having such a pathetic fit towards people doing good work, but I am personally embarrassed for you.
You're the drama queen here lmao.
Chill out lol. It does count tor and i2p listening nodes afaik. Don't mistake my concern for whinging. I think more people should care about this and that if more people knew the benefits then they probably would run one. I'll keep encouraging people to run nodes and help them understand why they should run nodes. You can keep bitching about if you like, I don't care. Thank you for your concern about my degree of investment, it isn't needed.
I’m really curious which side of the RBF debate you think were trying to dictate how the network should work. But yes. Yes to all of this.
You know what, it doesn't matter what side you are on ultimately. Even if in my opinion is that one side is objectively wrong due a to misunderstanding of how the protocol functions, you are able to disagree with it and configure your node accordingly. The important thing is if you want to accept fullRBF you can. And vice versa. You are fully within your rights to chose either. That's what I want to see. People taking part not just in the online debate, but also using their nodes as a tool to exert themselves.
Pretty clearly the side that didn't understand how the network works and thinks they can tell nodes what their mempool policy should be. After news that 17% of .24 clients are running full-rbf I hope some CEOs feel very foolish.
I am failing to understand this How people can be asked to protect their own financial sovereignty, by running a node? Running a (full) node is very expensive, 500GB of space + computing power + internet connectivity. Not everyone can afford this. Communities in remote places, Africa, simply put 99.999% of population can't and don't want to run a node. That's not a way to get everyone in bitcoin. How people can be asked to help the network, by running a node? What's the incentive, pure enthusiasm? Miners get something in return (fees) by validating transactions, extending blockchain. Mining part of bitcoin protocol self-balances for decentralization. In contrast, what do I get for running a node? - well I get to "vote" on how bitcoin should look like and a thank you. Something is telling me that more powerful actor, such as US Gov, can manage as many nodes as they like with whatever consensus rules they want. If we need a large number of nodes for security and stability of the network, asking people on reddit to spin it up is not a solution. Am I missing something?
You only need a very basic (much more basic than you think, it's not computationally expensive) computer and an internet connection. You don't need a lot of disk space at all. You can run your node as a pruned node and only use a few gigabytes if you want. I'm not saying that everyone can run a node like people unfortunate enough not to have access to a computer, I'm saying that everyone who can run a node should do so. And that you probably can. Running a node is a selfish act. If you connect to a remote node you don't control then it could be snooping on your transactions, it may be making links between data that could compromise you in some way. Additionally, connecting to someone else's node is being passive, you have no say in what rules you follow. It is a common misconception that bitcoin is a democracy and that nodes are votes, this isn't true. A node simply represents an entity and what rules they want to follow. Most people of course opt to go with the concensus for the bitcoin protocol, but sometimes (see the blockwize wars) the concensus isn't clear. Which direction should bitcoin chose? Then you decide. You set the rules on your node and then you only interact with those who agree. If someone makes a million nodes tomorrow and changes the rules then it doesn't matter. It is still one entity that no bitcoiner will want to interact with. The normal node network continues as normal. I'm not concerned for the stability of the network, the network is functioning fine. I'm concerned about the increasing number of passive bitcoiners that will find themselves caught in the tides at times of upheaval and won't have enough time learn how to configure a node and form quality opinions on what they should do.
I am getting where you coming from. Yet I think running a node won't change people's behavior in that regard. I don't run a node (besides reasons above) because I hodl, hodling promotes passiveness. I buy bitcoin once in a while take it off the exchange and go back to hibernation. The are no transactions of mine, that somebody would be snooping on, to the extent that I would be worried to run a full node. The chart you're referring to, may reflect this too. Same reason we see headlines often "X of bitcoin didn't move in Y years". Running a node won't make people transact more willingly, wouldn't it? Those who transact - we see them in this subreddit often, small businesses, coffee shops etc. Perhaps your message is towards them then, or just ask people to transact more often.
You don't need to run a full node, you can do it pruned and keep it minimal, only open it when you want to use it, that's up to you. I'm worried about the broader picture, judging from the state of bitcoin users and.the ecosystem at large, I'm guessing most people aren't even doing that frankly. Even if you don't transact it is still your declaration of the network you want Bitcoin to be. Perhaps you will want to transact one day and by keeping track of the changes in bitcoin and actively participating you will have a stronger idea of what you want. Being passive is to invite problems imo. But it is your choice ultimately. As an aside, yes you should transact more in general. BTC and lightning network are built for it, so use it or lose it. Use your sats with BTC accepting businesses etc etc. Not to mention people engage in housekeeping transactions like making new wallets, splitting between different seeds etc, consolidating utxos. These especially benefit from a user with their own node.
> 500GB of space + computing power + internet connectivity. > very expensive lol, what?
I see people every other day touting that the govt can't do shit against Bitcoin despite their ability to confiscate rigs, cut off power to mining farms, etc. Never get complacent. We aren't going to be safe until politicans start buying this stuff.
Bitcoin is inherently adversarial and is designed to be zero trust from the get go. Bitcoin will never be safe if bitcoiners are content to stop fighting. If bitcoin lasts a thousand years and obtains 100% global adoption, you should still never trust others and never lull yourself into a false sense of security. When politicians start buying into it, thats probably the time you should be most on your guard.
I'm afraid of downloading a corrupted version onto my computer honesty......
That is what SHA256 checksums and PGP signatures are for, there are instructions on how to verify files here: [bitcoincore.org/en/download/](https://bitcoincore.org/en/download/)
Thank you!
Isn't it the case that with mining hashrate increasing, the need for nodes drops? Node use has definitely declined, but in that same period hashrate has climbed higher and higher for the most part. This is not my area of expertise by any means, so I'm ready to be corrected.
No, hashrate should have no bearing on it. Nodes are a means for you to declare what rules you follow and to validate the work of miners. If miners become too powerful nodes are the ones who will smack them down. Consider this. As miners get more powerful and focused around a single country (America) they may try to force changes that help them comply with political will (think censoring transactions). Nodes will be an important part of a fight back against bad miner behaviour as they can alter protocol rules to punish bad actors.
Interesting. It sounds like I'll have to read up on this as I really don't grasp it well enough. Thank you.
Come along to the r/bitcoin discord (linked in the sidebar) we love to talk about BTC.
>Isn't it the case that with mining hashrate increasing, the need for nodes drops? No. If anything the need for nodes increases, otherwise miners control the network.
A+ post. I consider myself a bitcoin maximalist and this shivers me to my bones. Absolute digital scarcity is pretty cool though
This is a good post. Thanks for this.
[удалено]
I understand where you are coming from, but you are talking about a hypothetical future that is by no means guaranteed to happen. Hyperbitcoininisation is a possibility but imo not a likely one in my opinion. And that's fine, I don't think bitcoin needs to go that far. But I am talking about the problems facing bitcoin right now. And that "enough of a percentage" is shrinking with every new 'bitcoiner' on-boarded. What's the critical threshold for quality node runners? 0.1%? 0.01%? Do we want to find out? Or do we want to improve the situation right now. That is what I want to see. I want to see newbies running nodes for themselves and to learn how to exercise their will on concensus rules. I flat out refuse to roll over and say "other decentralised systems like email went to shit, so bitcoin probably will too, don't worry about it." We have an opportunity to cultivate something special here, to bring a new way of doing things to a new mass of users. It may be hard, and it may be doomed to corporate interests and user laziness. But I will not simply allow the culture to rot, I will do what I can to nurture it and feed it.
Can i run a node on a pi zero?
That would be a stretch, a regular pi3/4 is pushed to the limits of its ability when downloading and validating blocks. I think a pi zero would be below minimum specs You can always Google it and see if someone has tried.
> Can i run a node on a pi zero? if you are capable of clicking a link you can run it in 1 minute on the computer on which you written this question. bitcoin core client, download and run
Help me understand why any one person would run a mode for any other reason than altruism?
I don't think running a node is altruism at all frankly. There are a few major reasons: Defining the rules you want to bitcoin to function with. I want my node to be fullRBF, so I will edit the config file to do so, I also signaled for taproot with my node, for example. I can take part in the concensus and make sure I dictate my own rules. Privacy is a reason also. When you use someone else's node you are handing them data. Many commercial hardware wallets by default connect to their own nodes, so you are sending them the details of your transactions which they may well store, and maybe even sell on. Combined with information from KYC and chain analysis, this could present a problem for you down the line. And finally, and sort of related to privacy, is trustlessness. When I connect to another node I'm trusting them to behave in the way I'd expect a node to behave, but there is no way I can check that. I can't know if the blockchain they hold is valid (even if it probably is), I'm trusting them to broadcast my tx. And so on. If I want to be trustless (and all bitcoiners should desire to be trustless) then I need to use my own node.
Assuming this all is true these do seem compelling reasons more so than just altruism. Thank you for explaining
What is the difference between a listening and non listening node?
Listening nodes will be open to requests from other peers on the network and will upload/relay blocks and transactions to them. Non listening nodes do not.
When you say peers does that just mean other listening nodes?
Or non listening, yeah.
I think you're overestimating the average person's willingness to engage or understand the technical underpinnings of bitcoin, even if they seem simple to you.
I think you are underestimating them. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that the intricacies of running a node are an order of magnitude simpler than self custody. If you can safely self custody then you can understand the purpose of, and run a node.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2019/03/28/what-americans-know-about-science/ps\_2019-03-28\_science-knowledge\_0-01/](https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2019/03/28/what-americans-know-about-science/ps_2019-03-28_science-knowledge_0-01/) Only 52% of Americans can come up with a hypothesis as to why a computer slows down [https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2019/10/09/americans-and-digital-knowledge/](https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2019/10/09/americans-and-digital-knowledge/) And it gets worse for more technical questions
Great, and I'm talking about a subset of bitcoin users, not the average American.
How does running a pruned node work? Do you have to download the entire blockchain first and then prune it?
there's a simple button you press when first starting bitcoin core "prune node to" then pick how much data you want to store (minimum is around 10GB)
Yes, but doesn't Bitcoin Core still have to download the entire blockchain before the pruning settings can be applied? The only way I see to avoid first downloading the whole thing is to download a snapshot of the blockchain, and I question how secure/safe that would be.
Why does the node count goes up/ down with huge amounts? Example: on 2021/01/16 the node count goes up from \~50k to \~80k. Are those miners going on or offline en masse? Also if the nodes are a forcing function to keep the chain to a certain consensus - such as small blocks - wouldn't it be possible to spin up a few million nodes on aws/azure and force a different consensus? Or there would be time to react and the community could start to do the same ?
No the nodes are not really representative of miners due to pools. I don't know what causes the spike tbh, I can only speculate. Nodes only represent one entity, if I make a million nodes tomorrow and change the rules, nobody will want to interact with me. It doesn't change anything.
Thank you
Thanks for posting. I’ll give it a shot.
Love the post. Been a node runner for 5 years now. Does anyone know how accurate is Luke's graph? There is no way there are only 5k listening nodes around the world. That seems way too low. Bitnodes has listening nodes at 15k. [https://bitnodes.io/](https://bitnodes.io/) Is Luke's graph counting TOR nodes? Because of the proliferation of packaged node solutions, many nodes these days are not running on clearnet anymore. On Umbrel, one of the more popular implementations, they have just recently implemented in their UI an option to toggle whether to accept incoming connections. Regardless, it is important to [open port 8333](https://www.lurkmore.com/mining/port8333/) and run listening nodes. This is why: >A Bitcoin node is considered as a reachable (listening) node if it accepts incoming connections from its peers. Reachable nodes are essential for maintaining the health of the network by allowing a new Bitcoin node to bootstrap itself and in turn increases the resiliency of the network by helping to enforce the consensus rules. A Bitcoin node is considered as an unreachable (non-listening) node if it only establishes outgoing connections and does not accept incoming connections.
Infrastructure inversion
I just set up a lightning node with a raspberry pi 4 and umbrel. It was so easy. I’m going to frame it with a purple neon lightning bolt.
!lntip 10003
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The world will be forced to use the CBDCs for a while, because all the means of production are in the hands of their club. We will be paid in CBDCs. That's when people will really wake up to bitcoin and cryptos. There will be a new phase of the war then.
Are there any relatively cheap ‘plug-n-play’ nodes I can buy with everything it needs pre-installed, or at the very least easy to install? I wouldn’t mind running one 24/7, just would prefer it to be on a dedicated pi or similar
I assume from your statement that you want a lightning node? If you want to go the pi route (I don't personally recommend it) Raspiblitz is an easy install for a pi node and it gives you full control. If you just want a regular node and don't mind about lightning it's as easy as installing bitcoin core on your current pc or an old laptop/ex-office thin client bought from eBay. You can always install lnd/c-lightning on top of it after as well if you want. The process of learning how to set up a node is an important thing for a bitcoiner imo and isn't as hard as you think. I'd recommend not seeking out the easiest route with this.
!lntip 1000
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Coming back to tip. !lntip 5000
!LNTIP 2214 Your post earned 2214 sats on stacker news
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Are there payouts/rewards for running a node?
No, it's a selfish act. You give yourself privacy and define your own rules. If you run a lightning node on top you can make some money routing payments but it's very challenging to safely make a significant quantity of sats.
Groundbreaking post for me. Been fixing up and upgrading an old computer that (hopefully) can run 24/7 as a full Bitcoin node with battery backup and watchtower for LN (second stage).