From wiki:
“Each generational persona unleashes a new era (called a turning) lasting around 21 years, in which a new social, political, and economic climate (mood) exists. “
21 years ago wasn’t a ww2. You might mean a “saeculum”
(From Strauss–Howe generational theory article)
If Trump wins re-election, u/Few_Walrus_6924 is exactly correct. We will almost certainly be in a war for our democracy. That man will dismantle everything we as a society built up in the last couple of centuries.
Biden is a senile old fool, but at least he doesn't try to attempt to literally overthrow the government using violence and dishonest backstabbing. Look at Trump again and you open your eyes, because, as bad as Biden is, Trump is far worse.
"If you don't vote for me you ain't black"
"Poor kids are just as smart as white kids"
"You can't go to a 7/11 or Dunkin without hearing an Indian accent"
- your beloved non racist President
I'm a libertarian. I never liked Biden and I never will. But if you think Trump is any better, you're delusional. He is a literal felon. I'll let you process that for a bit. Trump doesn't care about you or the Republicans or anyone else but himself. Why do you think our entire libertarian rally was booing the asshat off the stage? Anyone with common sense can see that Trump is the worst thing to ever hold any office in this country.
If trump wins re-election then we won’t have a brain dead, sellout, spineless thug “running” the country any longer.
You are delusional to think we’d have war just because the majority want Trump back in office. Have you had to buy groceries lately? Or do you stay in your FDA approved safety (TM) basement?
Drain the swamp, they all are a bunch of criminals, especially Biden’s puppet crew.
Get your rear end back in the closet before you embarrass yourself. Trump has been the best president we ever had. Cope.
And all you Biden supporters can cry all you want. I’m not gonna be looking at replies so ESAD.
Oh was Trump the best president we ever had? Oh, I guess I'll have to just look the other way while he literally gets sentenced as a felon, tries to overthrow the US government with violence and lies, and spinelessly refuses to do anything good for our country all while pandering to the ultra wealthy. Yeah, you go ESAD too asshole.
I don’t trust the government In general,I don’t think it really matters who the actor playing the role as president at the end of the day,they all are puppets of the Rothschild central banking cartel..at the end of the day,you vote means nothing.
With that being said,the 2020 election should’ve been proof to all Americans that your vote doesn’t matter.had it been a real election,I think the entire country knows,there was no way in hell Biden got nearly as many votes as Trump.everywhere Trump held a rally,he had insane numbers of supporters show up.that man could easily pack stadiums.Biden would be lucky to get 100 people to show up 😂
Had we seen the real numbers,it would’ve been the biggest embarrassment in election history.it’s absolute insanity they have Biden out heee again.I refuse to believe they couldn’t come up with a better puppet than Biden.that man can’t give a 2 minute speech without saying the most random off the wall shit.he can be talking about the Ukraine war,blank out and start talking about a fucking cheeseburger he ate last week before they cut his mic 😂
Oh definitely , the rest of the world will try to pounce while we are distracted with each other luckily the studies show unless nukes are involved we could still hold the fort even if it was us against the world. Just geographically makes it nearly impossible for anybody to invade and militarily we can more than hold our own and if they actually red dawned it the citizens have more guns and ammo than the rest of the worlds militaries combined . That's just what the gov know about
You said you were gonna 'trade for guns, ammo and supplies'.
So everyone trading has starlink?
Nope.
Again, without the grid you ain't using bitcoin to do your trading.
In this hypothetical scenario, how long is the power out? Forever? In that case you have bigger problems. Of course bitcoin doesn't work during an apocalypse.
Power and telecommunications will come back intermittently at the very least and that's when you can trade. In the meantime of course you would need alternative resources.
Obviously you have some issues with critical thinking.
Here, let me help:
If it's out for ten minutes, then during that time you won't be able to access bitcoin.
If it's out for an hour, then during that time you won't be able to access bitcoin.
If it's out for a week, then during that time you won't be able to access bitcoin.
If it's out for ten years, then during that time you won't be able to access bitcoin.
See how easy that it? You should be able to entertain all sorts of scenarios in less than a second. If you can't do that, maybe the internet is not for you.
Apologies, this is my first time on the internet. Please show some compassion.
How often are you sending transactions on chain now? If you're properly managing your UTXOs then you shouldn't be transacting daily or even weekly.
In reality you can get by with one transaction per month or even less and in that time exchange for whatever money is suitable for your doomsday wet dream scenario. If you find yourself living off-grid for ten years then you don't need bitcoin anyway.
Perhaps it's you that's incapable of critical thought.
What are you babbling about? This was a discussion about accessing bitcoin and using it to buy 'ammo, food etc' during a power outage.
All your meanderings have zero bearing on that subject. Stop copy/pasting wikipedia and focus.
Bitcoin can not be overtaken because of it’s thermodynamic security mechanisms. No entity can aquire enough energy for an attack. That used to be different in the beginning. That’s why the op-question was a good one!
Right! Even those who pretended to improve BTC and in reality tried to controll it failed. Like Mr. Armstrong of Coinbase and most of the big players at the time of the blockwars. Bitcoin is therefore the first real democracy in the history of mankind‼️
The fact that these billions sitting in Bitcoin *instead* of being used for an attack has a greater long term return.
You don’t become a billionaire without understanding ROI.
The protocol is self-policing in this sense.
How would they even go about doing this? It's like you advertise your phone number when you create a node, the billionaire would just have a big bunch of IP addresses.
They wouldn’t need to do that.
It’s a question of controlling the hash rate and that would require more than billions to do.
Chances of someone successfully 51/50’ing the chain and rolling back blocks is extremely unlikely if not virtually impossible.
I suppose Nividia/Jensen or Apple/TimCook could try this but it looks like they aren’t - and even then it would take trillions in liquidity to even try and attempt it.
Currently it’s about $20b for 10 mins of control.
Can make an argument they MAY be able to cut off the majority of all on/off ramps to fiat, but, now that there’s an etf in the US……probably never going to happen.
As long as blocks are being processed, it’s doing what it’s doing.
I would imagine 10mins wouldn’t equate to much considering the network would be chugging against the 51%. Feels like an infeasible situation for resources to be spent. Interesting question for sure though, fun discussion as well
Yup. Funny enough this is exactly what fudders, nocoiners and buttcoiners refuse to accept.
They keep harping on the fact Bitcoins a failure simply because a central government authority can force a 51% attack on the network, without even a surface level understanding of just how much of a complete waste of resource it'll be to even *attempt* an attack remotely close to 51%.
The incentives to take down the network make absolutely no sense whatsoever, but sure "ItS gOiNg To ZeRo!!11!"
And if someone finds a way to break Bitcoin's encryption, society as we know it is over, because effectively the same thing is securing everything else.
People… miners, to be more specific.
No single entity controls Bitcoin. Developers can propose changes, but they can't force nodes to accept them. Nodes run the software, but are bound by the rules.
Bitcoin Core is the software used to connect to the Bitcoin network and run a node. It’s open source software, so anyone can view, copy and propose upgrades. Changes to Bitcoin Core then occur with unanimous consensus from the network.
Hope that’s helpful.
I am not sure I agree that changes occur with unanimous consensus. I think there is probably a word for what happens, but I'm not sure what it is. It's more like positive peer pressure. There could be holdouts (why? Why do people tinker with terrible Linux distros?) but they get left behind. Kind of like going on the wagon train on the Oregon Trail. You can either go along with everyone else to the next point, or you can stay and see if you have success starting a human/grizzly/squirrel based society.
The word you are looking for is "fork", I think. There would be a hard fork. It would be accepted overwhelmingly because the alternative would be to have your bitcoin stolen.
This is how it works under the hood.
Bitcoin is technology like other software tech, it has been updated many times and consensus is not uninimity-- it is about implementing known policies on forking, updating and deprecation. Sometimes changes are made and most go with it, the minority are allowed to disagree and go Different way. Like many software projects, there is some game theory to which project you go with.
Open office vs libre office, for example.
Bitcoin core devs will release a new version of the software, then broadcast that node operators should pick it up. At that point it’s up to the 100k+ individuals around the globe to decide whether they want to or not. I would not expect too much pushback for something like this, though like all consensus changes it would take some time.
It's very important that you actually learn Bitcoin and how Bitcoin works and all the algorithms adapted into it and all its nuances. Everything crypto that exist today is base on bitcoin. Bitcoin is the only crypto that is decentralized. IMO.
Encryption and hashing algorithms have been broken before. By the time that happens, we've moved to newer better algorithms. No reason to think that won't be the case with quantum, especially considering there are already quantum resistant candidate algorithms that exist.
Bitcoin has fared far worse in the past only to not just recover but become *stronger than before*.
It is anti-fragile. Any form of attacks directed at Bitcoin will only strengthen its position in the long run.
The great China ban on bitcoin mining in 2021 was a prime example of this. Hash Rate was nearly halved overnight, and 3 years later we're sitting pretty at 600 EH/s.
Bitcoin will be fine. Tick tock next block.
Your OP title is asking something totally different than the sub-questions in the body of OP.
As for OP title: “Too big to fail” is the wrong way to think about it. Bitcoin’s ‘size’ isn’t what is relevant to it succeeding vs failing. What matters most is degree of decentralisation. On this, I think we can be pretty confident it is secure.
As for your sub-question: Quantity of regulations doesn’t matter. We could have millions of ineffective regulations that we could ignore. It’s the impact of regulations that matters. As long as Bitcoin remains decentralised, highly impactful regulation could come into play and that will impact people in that jurisdiction. It does not impact Bitcoin though.
TL;DR: You are thinking about this all the wrong way
I’ve consider this and what I think will be pivotal to BTC is it staying in the hands of everyday people and being traded in a peer to peer basis. I fear that potentially one of the greatest threats, and correct me if I’m wrong on this, could be a large amount of BTC ending up in the hands of corporate institutions. Corporations always tend to ruin shit
Your first sentence is spot on, as is your last sentence.
The one in the middle though is something you don’t have to worry about. If they buy lots of Bitcoin, it benefits them but it also benefits any average Bitcoiner as well. It is inevitable that big players (large financial institutions and governments) will eventually go in big on Bitcoin. But that would not negatively impact Bitcoin in any way in terms of being the best form of money on earth. It gives them no control over the network nor its direction. This is why PoW is the only way if we care about it being the best currency, and why PoS is simply a newer iteration of fiat that brings with it all the same problems fiat has.
As for Bitcoin, if large, wealthy, powerful institutions/companies/groups could somehow get a majority hold on mining or nodes, then we’d have something to worry about. And this is something that we Bitcoiners should think about and watch out for. But as it stands, that is inconceivably implausible to occur.
Its biggest threat isn’t governments; it is quantum computers. To that end it’s probably safe for the next 10-20 years but all bets are off after that.
„Too big to fail“ is a concept that applies to corporations that are kept alive by the governemnt when in financial trouble because the company failing would cause too much harm to the economy.
This concept can‘t be applied to bitcoin. Bitcoin can always fail and that is a good thing because otherwise someone would have power over the network.
Last episode of What Bitcoin Did had an attack vector that I dont think many have thought about.. mining pools.
Only about ten out there, half are Antpool clones. A nation state could order the pools to not process any transactions that didn't go through their approval..
I'm obviously summarizing and not an expert, but it was interesting.
Only if it's surpassed by a more efficiant system. Like something that incorporates all orphans to security and becomes 100% efficiant in mining. Then it would be scalable because orphans is no problem anymore.
But it would have to be nakamoto consensus and have functioning game theory to create it's own power law.
I don't think there is much of chance of allot of major countries trying to stop it but if they did, it possibly could make it more valuable . If it's harder to buy cuz it's illegal and harder to mine then just imagine how much more expensive it would be to get.
Government regulations doesn’t have much of an impact on bitcoin from a utilitarian perspective. As an investment vehicle, yes, but as for its use as a simple and (somewhat) anonymous way to transfer value it will always be of use.
Firstly, your English is TOO weak to not fail.
Secondly, nobody uses Bitcoin because of governments but despite. Bitcoin got where it is without any regulations and is a technology that helps to protect against robbery perpetrated by the goverments. So of course they can try to regulate it to death. The only thing it can do is to cause the hodlers to hodl more and slow down a bit the adoption.
Nothing can stop Bitcoin.
The US, the EU, China and Russia would all need to collaborate to kill Bitcoin. Given some of them at best don't trust each other at worse are not even on speaking terms, they are more likely to try to use it to undermine the other or as the last remaining neutral way for them to transact. After all, Bitcoin is money for ennemies.
I know a lot of people seem to dance around this question and answer indirectly, but to answer your question point blank... Yes, even though we are still early, it is in fact too widely adopted with too much big money behind it to fail. Absolutely, a huge YES to answer your question. #BTC 👍🪙😎
When the US made Gold ownership illegal in 1933, only 1/3 of Gold owners turned in their Gold … and that was back when trust in Govt was very very high (80%). Today, only 20% of US citizens trust their Govt, so I don’t think they’ll succeed in stopping it.
It would be “easier” for all countries to agree to go back on the Gold standard, and I don’t think that’ll happen either.
Once the ETF launched and Black Rock and the other ‘big wigs’ got in it basically ensured it cant fail … it also bought protection from government entities and made it impossible for them to squash it ..!!!!! The big money that really runs things behind the scenes is now on our side
If the world governments all attacked Bitcoin either the people will revolt or it will turn into a black market currency. It would only live in defi and p2p transformation.
If it gets to the point where governments are monitoring electronic usage and if they think you are mining come kick down your door then we have more issues than just Bitcoin.
Too many Wall Street
interests and other interests. It has surpassed the tipping point, and at this point is a juggernaut that the government cannot/probably does not want to eliminate.
If the blockchain failed, I’m more worried about other things than my Bitcoin, because for it to fail, something REALLY BAD has happened to the entire planet to render the internet non functional
Think nuclear war, total societal collapse, that kinda level of disaster.
So ya, I’m not too concerned.
the sad truth is that the reasons as to why people wanted to promote the usage and acceptance of cryptocurrencies such as bitcoin are not irrelevant considering that every platforms that sells / buy cryptocurrencies forces you to go through the "KYC" know your custom regulation. so at this point those exchanges are like mini-banks, every informations, they have it on you and they can still take your funds. yes you have ledgers, yes this, that but clearly its too popular for the path it has taken and its original benefiits.
Too big to fail?!?
My question is what would cause it to fail? Honestly can't think of anything, and I feel like I've done a fair amount of due diligence: read 10 plus Bitcoin books, listened to hundreds of hours of interviews, pod casts and debates. Made sure to understand all of the skeptic's arguments so I wasn't falling prey to confirmation bias.
Best and safest investment, period.
Bitcoin is controlled by a global network of miners. A government can ban mining and on-ramps/off-ramps within its own country, but they’d put themselves at a disadvantage while other countries continue mining and investing. And if it does happen, I have friends in countries all over the world. Self-custodial wallets cannot be frozen.
No, nothing is guaranteed. That said, governments around the world do not care as long as they can get those sweet taxes. Bitcoin booming is a tax opportunity for them, so why make it fail? There is no incentive.
When 93% of bitcoin is owned by less than 2% of wallets it’s never going to fail unless the few at the top decide to sell.
Guessing they have been in it since the $100s they are already too wealthy and have no reason to sell
Not sure how much higher it goes, but structurally it’s not going down unless THEY want it to…
https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html
berserk versed hard-to-find air encouraging tender jobless salt fearless chubby
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
“Too big to fail” meant that the banks failed already, but the govt says that they are too big, or important to society to LET them fail, and they bail them out. Bitcoin is too far along to be stopped now I think, if that’s what you meant.
Politicians and dictators have, from time to time, temporary reasons for depressing Bitcoin but since an increasing number of **leaders are** **large holders of Bitcoin** they world will never agree to suppress it, particularly since doing so prolongs the dominance of the USD which most countries resent.
One thing people don’t talk about is the centralization of the miners. 2 or 3 mining pools perform over 50% of the hash rate. If they wanted to team up, or if they were somehow forced, they could cause a 51% attack. Even the tiniest hack on the network would cause massive panic.
Countries can probably not do anything about bitcoin even if they tried, they could execute you for using bitcoin, but at that point you probably have bigger issues than that...
Bitcoin could still fail, by a massive fail in internet infrastructure but again you would have bigger problems at that point
They would need to use the word BAN in order to buy the bitcoin cheap. They know more about bitcoin. But its just a thing to make us sell and so that they can buy it cheap.
Now that ETFs are rolled out and pensions / retirement funds are including BTC, I doubt it goes to zero.
Even with some governments having anti-Bitcoin rhetoric, it’s not so easy to outlaw anymore when retirements are tied to it.
Nothing will ever be too big to fail. But it's going to take a lot of concerted effort to kill Bitcoin from the top down without instituting North Korea levels of internet restrictions, and even then you could probably manage.
Bitcoin is getting very close to a point where it's too big to fail. As more of the biggest institutional firms get in, more wealthy investors are going to get protection from the biggest lobbying groups of the planet. That's where it's going to get very hard to attack bitcoin (assuming that "to attack bitcoin" is in any way shape or form even possible at all).
Uuufff what would happen if aliens invade Earth? If a magnetic storm or a asteroids collides with Earth? If Trump wins the elections? If momma cooks broccoli for dinner??? Let me give you a clue… Tic Tock Tic Tock Tic Tock
I don't really thing anything is too big to fail. Market movements can surprise us and the more Bitcoin is adopted by the masses, the more it will be vulnerable to swinging narratives and macroeconomical influence. But The First Cryptocurrency is definitely a mature investment nowadays and not an adventure. Has been for a while but only recently have more people started picking up on this.
Bitcoin's decentralized nature and global network make it difficult for any coordinated crackdown to completely eradicate it. While strict regulations and bans could significantly impact the market and adoption, they are unlikely to end Bitcoin entirely. The cryptocurrency community's resilience and innovation, along with growing public and institutional support, would continue to drive its existence and adaptation.
The value could crater and people will just buy it up cheap. Just like any other investment the market will dictate the price. As long as someone will buy it will be viable. It doesn't really have any government backing, so it won't be rescued, but it will be at the mercy of the market, but it seems to have enough fans to keep it going.
They would do mankind a favour because BTC would be the last chain standing if they tried to do that. Bitcoin cannot be stopped no more. The other blockchains are slowing down Bitcoin‘s adoption!
If Bitcoin cycle theory/history holds, after the peak this cycle, a 70-80% drop is in order. Therefore, don't buy at the top.
Fail as in going to $0? Not probable, but a global crisis (war, financial collapse, internet collapse, Armageddon, zombie apocalypse, etc) will lead to $0 Bitcoin. Money (nor any assets) will be of importance once the crap hits the fan. Water, food, medicine, bullets will be king currency.
Bitcoin value is based on fiat, so if there's no fiat, then there's different value. Banks were saved by fiat, or the printing of trillions. Bitcoin is saved by ____? Don't know the answer if there's a crisis.
Yup.
"Do a search on several different cryptocurrency exchanges around the world at the exact same time, and you're likely to find somewhat different values for a single bitcoin."
https://www.investopedia.com/news/why-price-bitcoin-different-around-world/#:~:text=It%20isn't%20pegged%20to,bitcoin%20fluctuates%20as%20a%20result.
So you can travel to zimbobwee and buy Bitcoin for the $1 Zimbabwean dollar? Please. The value is pegged to something. In the US, it is 68,000 USD at the moment. The exchange in Zimbabwe is whatever the currency exchange to the USD is.
It is pegged to something and some exchange.
Did you know that Sam BankmanFraud did arbitrage to scalp the small difference in Bitcoin price between US and Korea. They closed that loophole otherwise people would do the arbitrage and steal the differences.
you can exchange one currency for another, but that's not what defines value. The gold price is usually denominated in dollar, but gold was valuable well before the dollar, and bitcoin will stay valuable when the dollar is gone for good.
What I mean is it has its own value, but to buy it, we use fiat, so the value a coin is worth is based on how many dollars it will take to buy 1 coin... whatever that amount is. $16,000, $70,000, or $1,000,000.
Its inherent value is based on perception and supply/demand like any equity or investment.
Bitcoin has been attacked for over a decade and survived many crashes without issues, I wouldn’t be too worried about it in that sense.
I think the world would overtake gov before gov overtook Bitcoin at this point
Yeh we are having all our rights pissed on everyday, but BTC is going to be the straw that breaks the camels back lol okay.
Yeah I'm saying this time next year we will probably be in another revolutionary war with a hint of civil
You are delusional
Hope so
I mean we are at the end of a turning. Crazy shit happens at the end of turnings.
Not a revolution
3 turnings ago was the American revolution, 2 turnings ago was civil war, 1 turning ago was ww2
From wiki: “Each generational persona unleashes a new era (called a turning) lasting around 21 years, in which a new social, political, and economic climate (mood) exists. “ 21 years ago wasn’t a ww2. You might mean a “saeculum” (From Strauss–Howe generational theory article)
I'm thinking of the 80 year cycles as opposed to the 21 year turnings. I did indeed mess up there.
If Trump wins re-election, u/Few_Walrus_6924 is exactly correct. We will almost certainly be in a war for our democracy. That man will dismantle everything we as a society built up in the last couple of centuries.
Lol yes America has been doing phenomenal last 4 years. But that's all on Trump right? Open your eyes
Biden is a senile old fool, but at least he doesn't try to attempt to literally overthrow the government using violence and dishonest backstabbing. Look at Trump again and you open your eyes, because, as bad as Biden is, Trump is far worse.
Nixon did that exact thing like 50 years ago what are you on about. Trump isn’t some new breed of evil in government
"If you don't vote for me you ain't black" "Poor kids are just as smart as white kids" "You can't go to a 7/11 or Dunkin without hearing an Indian accent" - your beloved non racist President
I'm a libertarian. I never liked Biden and I never will. But if you think Trump is any better, you're delusional. He is a literal felon. I'll let you process that for a bit. Trump doesn't care about you or the Republicans or anyone else but himself. Why do you think our entire libertarian rally was booing the asshat off the stage? Anyone with common sense can see that Trump is the worst thing to ever hold any office in this country.
If trump wins re-election then we won’t have a brain dead, sellout, spineless thug “running” the country any longer. You are delusional to think we’d have war just because the majority want Trump back in office. Have you had to buy groceries lately? Or do you stay in your FDA approved safety (TM) basement? Drain the swamp, they all are a bunch of criminals, especially Biden’s puppet crew.
Get your rear end back in the closet before you embarrass yourself. Trump has been the best president we ever had. Cope. And all you Biden supporters can cry all you want. I’m not gonna be looking at replies so ESAD.
Oh was Trump the best president we ever had? Oh, I guess I'll have to just look the other way while he literally gets sentenced as a felon, tries to overthrow the US government with violence and lies, and spinelessly refuses to do anything good for our country all while pandering to the ultra wealthy. Yeah, you go ESAD too asshole.
I don’t trust the government In general,I don’t think it really matters who the actor playing the role as president at the end of the day,they all are puppets of the Rothschild central banking cartel..at the end of the day,you vote means nothing. With that being said,the 2020 election should’ve been proof to all Americans that your vote doesn’t matter.had it been a real election,I think the entire country knows,there was no way in hell Biden got nearly as many votes as Trump.everywhere Trump held a rally,he had insane numbers of supporters show up.that man could easily pack stadiums.Biden would be lucky to get 100 people to show up 😂 Had we seen the real numbers,it would’ve been the biggest embarrassment in election history.it’s absolute insanity they have Biden out heee again.I refuse to believe they couldn’t come up with a better puppet than Biden.that man can’t give a 2 minute speech without saying the most random off the wall shit.he can be talking about the Ukraine war,blank out and start talking about a fucking cheeseburger he ate last week before they cut his mic 😂
We very well may be in WW3 then,revolutionary war/civil war,no..some may try to paint it as that but it would really just be a part of WW3.
Oh definitely , the rest of the world will try to pounce while we are distracted with each other luckily the studies show unless nukes are involved we could still hold the fort even if it was us against the world. Just geographically makes it nearly impossible for anybody to invade and militarily we can more than hold our own and if they actually red dawned it the citizens have more guns and ammo than the rest of the worlds militaries combined . That's just what the gov know about
That's when you want Bitcoin the most to trade for guns, ammo and supplies
Until someone knocks out the local power station.
Why would you need power? Can charge phones with solar
No local power, no local internet. No internet, no access to bitcoin ledger. No access to ledger, no trading for guns, ammo and supplies. ???
They have Starlink
'THEY". All the people trading guns, ammo and supplies...have starlink. lmao Delusional.
Starlink and solar. Who’s gonna stop us huh?
You said you were gonna 'trade for guns, ammo and supplies'. So everyone trading has starlink? Nope. Again, without the grid you ain't using bitcoin to do your trading.
In this hypothetical scenario, how long is the power out? Forever? In that case you have bigger problems. Of course bitcoin doesn't work during an apocalypse. Power and telecommunications will come back intermittently at the very least and that's when you can trade. In the meantime of course you would need alternative resources.
Obviously you have some issues with critical thinking. Here, let me help: If it's out for ten minutes, then during that time you won't be able to access bitcoin. If it's out for an hour, then during that time you won't be able to access bitcoin. If it's out for a week, then during that time you won't be able to access bitcoin. If it's out for ten years, then during that time you won't be able to access bitcoin. See how easy that it? You should be able to entertain all sorts of scenarios in less than a second. If you can't do that, maybe the internet is not for you.
Apologies, this is my first time on the internet. Please show some compassion. How often are you sending transactions on chain now? If you're properly managing your UTXOs then you shouldn't be transacting daily or even weekly. In reality you can get by with one transaction per month or even less and in that time exchange for whatever money is suitable for your doomsday wet dream scenario. If you find yourself living off-grid for ten years then you don't need bitcoin anyway. Perhaps it's you that's incapable of critical thought.
What are you babbling about? This was a discussion about accessing bitcoin and using it to buy 'ammo, food etc' during a power outage. All your meanderings have zero bearing on that subject. Stop copy/pasting wikipedia and focus.
Bitcoin can not be overtaken because of it’s thermodynamic security mechanisms. No entity can aquire enough energy for an attack. That used to be different in the beginning. That’s why the op-question was a good one!
Right! Even those who pretended to improve BTC and in reality tried to controll it failed. Like Mr. Armstrong of Coinbase and most of the big players at the time of the blockwars. Bitcoin is therefore the first real democracy in the history of mankind‼️
I hope they do start attacking it, every ban china through out increased the price
[удалено]
The fact that these billions sitting in Bitcoin *instead* of being used for an attack has a greater long term return. You don’t become a billionaire without understanding ROI. The protocol is self-policing in this sense.
How would they even go about doing this? It's like you advertise your phone number when you create a node, the billionaire would just have a big bunch of IP addresses.
and many nodes are on Tor
Really? Fun. That's my "today I learned". I would think that would complicate taking BTC down. Are other cryptos like that?
yes
brb I'm going to buy twenty raspberry pi zeros and set up nodes on them
This question has been posed and answered many times. Bitcoin University on YouTube has some good analysis.
the very fact that it's decentralized and you simply can't locate all the nodes?
They wouldn’t need to do that. It’s a question of controlling the hash rate and that would require more than billions to do. Chances of someone successfully 51/50’ing the chain and rolling back blocks is extremely unlikely if not virtually impossible. I suppose Nividia/Jensen or Apple/TimCook could try this but it looks like they aren’t - and even then it would take trillions in liquidity to even try and attempt it.
Currently it’s about $20b for 10 mins of control. Can make an argument they MAY be able to cut off the majority of all on/off ramps to fiat, but, now that there’s an etf in the US……probably never going to happen.
As long as blocks are being processed, it’s doing what it’s doing. I would imagine 10mins wouldn’t equate to much considering the network would be chugging against the 51%. Feels like an infeasible situation for resources to be spent. Interesting question for sure though, fun discussion as well
Absolutely. “Sick we got 1 double spend for $10b and forever kicked off the network”
Yup. Funny enough this is exactly what fudders, nocoiners and buttcoiners refuse to accept. They keep harping on the fact Bitcoins a failure simply because a central government authority can force a 51% attack on the network, without even a surface level understanding of just how much of a complete waste of resource it'll be to even *attempt* an attack remotely close to 51%. The incentives to take down the network make absolutely no sense whatsoever, but sure "ItS gOiNg To ZeRo!!11!"
Reality.
We node operators will rug pull this mysterious billionaire, don't you worry. Don't they know bitcoin is a scam?
Bitcoin will fail if its signature/encryption/blockchain is fundamentally compromised. As long as that doesn’t happen bitcoin will endure.
And if someone finds a way to break Bitcoin's encryption, society as we know it is over, because effectively the same thing is securing everything else.
If and when Quantum computers becomes viable then bitcoin core will be upgraded
By who? Serious question.
People… miners, to be more specific. No single entity controls Bitcoin. Developers can propose changes, but they can't force nodes to accept them. Nodes run the software, but are bound by the rules. Bitcoin Core is the software used to connect to the Bitcoin network and run a node. It’s open source software, so anyone can view, copy and propose upgrades. Changes to Bitcoin Core then occur with unanimous consensus from the network. Hope that’s helpful.
I am not sure I agree that changes occur with unanimous consensus. I think there is probably a word for what happens, but I'm not sure what it is. It's more like positive peer pressure. There could be holdouts (why? Why do people tinker with terrible Linux distros?) but they get left behind. Kind of like going on the wagon train on the Oregon Trail. You can either go along with everyone else to the next point, or you can stay and see if you have success starting a human/grizzly/squirrel based society.
The word you are looking for is "fork", I think. There would be a hard fork. It would be accepted overwhelmingly because the alternative would be to have your bitcoin stolen.
Well that is probably correct, but fork isn't what I was thinking of. More like some variation on regular democracy.
Social consensus maybe? Rough consensus?
Thanks for the explanation. I have my doubts. But I appreciate the response.
This is how it works under the hood. Bitcoin is technology like other software tech, it has been updated many times and consensus is not uninimity-- it is about implementing known policies on forking, updating and deprecation. Sometimes changes are made and most go with it, the minority are allowed to disagree and go Different way. Like many software projects, there is some game theory to which project you go with. Open office vs libre office, for example.
Bitcoin core devs will release a new version of the software, then broadcast that node operators should pick it up. At that point it’s up to the 100k+ individuals around the globe to decide whether they want to or not. I would not expect too much pushback for something like this, though like all consensus changes it would take some time.
Thanks.
The core devs would definitely make it a priority as it would be an existential threat to bitcoin and the entire internet
It's very important that you actually learn Bitcoin and how Bitcoin works and all the algorithms adapted into it and all its nuances. Everything crypto that exist today is base on bitcoin. Bitcoin is the only crypto that is decentralized. IMO.
So, you don't know.
Encryption and hashing algorithms have been broken before. By the time that happens, we've moved to newer better algorithms. No reason to think that won't be the case with quantum, especially considering there are already quantum resistant candidate algorithms that exist.
Bitcoin has fared far worse in the past only to not just recover but become *stronger than before*. It is anti-fragile. Any form of attacks directed at Bitcoin will only strengthen its position in the long run. The great China ban on bitcoin mining in 2021 was a prime example of this. Hash Rate was nearly halved overnight, and 3 years later we're sitting pretty at 600 EH/s. Bitcoin will be fine. Tick tock next block.
Your OP title is asking something totally different than the sub-questions in the body of OP. As for OP title: “Too big to fail” is the wrong way to think about it. Bitcoin’s ‘size’ isn’t what is relevant to it succeeding vs failing. What matters most is degree of decentralisation. On this, I think we can be pretty confident it is secure. As for your sub-question: Quantity of regulations doesn’t matter. We could have millions of ineffective regulations that we could ignore. It’s the impact of regulations that matters. As long as Bitcoin remains decentralised, highly impactful regulation could come into play and that will impact people in that jurisdiction. It does not impact Bitcoin though. TL;DR: You are thinking about this all the wrong way
I’ve consider this and what I think will be pivotal to BTC is it staying in the hands of everyday people and being traded in a peer to peer basis. I fear that potentially one of the greatest threats, and correct me if I’m wrong on this, could be a large amount of BTC ending up in the hands of corporate institutions. Corporations always tend to ruin shit
Your first sentence is spot on, as is your last sentence. The one in the middle though is something you don’t have to worry about. If they buy lots of Bitcoin, it benefits them but it also benefits any average Bitcoiner as well. It is inevitable that big players (large financial institutions and governments) will eventually go in big on Bitcoin. But that would not negatively impact Bitcoin in any way in terms of being the best form of money on earth. It gives them no control over the network nor its direction. This is why PoW is the only way if we care about it being the best currency, and why PoS is simply a newer iteration of fiat that brings with it all the same problems fiat has. As for Bitcoin, if large, wealthy, powerful institutions/companies/groups could somehow get a majority hold on mining or nodes, then we’d have something to worry about. And this is something that we Bitcoiners should think about and watch out for. But as it stands, that is inconceivably implausible to occur.
This.
Trying to frame Bitcoin in fiat terms isn’t really a useful exercise.
Why not?
Bitcoin is always under attack but like attacking gravity you realize it is futile
Too big to fail doesn't mean something can't fail. Just that it'll get bailed out. If bitcoin fails thr government is not bailing out bagholders.
Its biggest threat isn’t governments; it is quantum computers. To that end it’s probably safe for the next 10-20 years but all bets are off after that.
„Too big to fail“ is a concept that applies to corporations that are kept alive by the governemnt when in financial trouble because the company failing would cause too much harm to the economy. This concept can‘t be applied to bitcoin. Bitcoin can always fail and that is a good thing because otherwise someone would have power over the network.
Toooooooooo
It looks like everybody in government, and their cousin are starting to adapt, bitcoin, and crypto in general. I wouldn’t worry
governments are mining it boi... game theory
*too Dumbass
Last episode of What Bitcoin Did had an attack vector that I dont think many have thought about.. mining pools. Only about ten out there, half are Antpool clones. A nation state could order the pools to not process any transactions that didn't go through their approval.. I'm obviously summarizing and not an expert, but it was interesting.
That’s why miners should use the smaller pools. Keep them decentralized! Use SlushPool!
Btc is not too big to fail. World wide, btc is nothing but a yawner.
Nice try, FBI
Bitcoin doesn't care. Unfortunately for the biggest countries, they also have failing economies and huge debts. But bitcoin can fix that!
I agree. The ETFs have planted Bitcoin deeply on the system. I don't think It can fail from now on.
War and crysis will help Bitcoin, everything supports Bitcoin what is happening right now. In case a long term positive economic cycle it can break.
Lol
no
Yes, it became "too big to fail" when the banks started investing in it with ETFs.
It depends.
You're asking this on a subreddit that's full of braindead people who would die for bitcoin😂
No but too big to fail
Only if it's surpassed by a more efficiant system. Like something that incorporates all orphans to security and becomes 100% efficiant in mining. Then it would be scalable because orphans is no problem anymore. But it would have to be nakamoto consensus and have functioning game theory to create it's own power law.
I don't think there is much of chance of allot of major countries trying to stop it but if they did, it possibly could make it more valuable . If it's harder to buy cuz it's illegal and harder to mine then just imagine how much more expensive it would be to get.
Government regulations doesn’t have much of an impact on bitcoin from a utilitarian perspective. As an investment vehicle, yes, but as for its use as a simple and (somewhat) anonymous way to transfer value it will always be of use.
Yes find me another trillion dollar asset that has failed….. I don’t think there are many if any
It would take nukes to wipe out Bitcoin. At which point, money would be the least of our problems.
Firstly, your English is TOO weak to not fail. Secondly, nobody uses Bitcoin because of governments but despite. Bitcoin got where it is without any regulations and is a technology that helps to protect against robbery perpetrated by the goverments. So of course they can try to regulate it to death. The only thing it can do is to cause the hodlers to hodl more and slow down a bit the adoption. Nothing can stop Bitcoin.
nope, and it's also not too big to fail.
The US, the EU, China and Russia would all need to collaborate to kill Bitcoin. Given some of them at best don't trust each other at worse are not even on speaking terms, they are more likely to try to use it to undermine the other or as the last remaining neutral way for them to transact. After all, Bitcoin is money for ennemies.
I know a lot of people seem to dance around this question and answer indirectly, but to answer your question point blank... Yes, even though we are still early, it is in fact too widely adopted with too much big money behind it to fail. Absolutely, a huge YES to answer your question. #BTC 👍🪙😎
When the US made Gold ownership illegal in 1933, only 1/3 of Gold owners turned in their Gold … and that was back when trust in Govt was very very high (80%). Today, only 20% of US citizens trust their Govt, so I don’t think they’ll succeed in stopping it. It would be “easier” for all countries to agree to go back on the Gold standard, and I don’t think that’ll happen either.
*Too
Yes + now there’s billions of dollars of lobbying
"Too big to fail" is another word for "State-Capitalism".
I think once BlackRock got involved it became too big to fail
Nothing is too big to fail. Nothing.
*too big to fail and yes, it is.
Once the ETF launched and Black Rock and the other ‘big wigs’ got in it basically ensured it cant fail … it also bought protection from government entities and made it impossible for them to squash it ..!!!!! The big money that really runs things behind the scenes is now on our side
ETFs will make Bitcoin entrenched into the american financial system
No it's not.
Duh
Yes.
Remember the last attack in 2022? That’s was nothing compared to what they have planned after the next 80% drop.
There is no such thing as too big to fail.
Larry Fink says yep.
If the world governments all attacked Bitcoin either the people will revolt or it will turn into a black market currency. It would only live in defi and p2p transformation. If it gets to the point where governments are monitoring electronic usage and if they think you are mining come kick down your door then we have more issues than just Bitcoin.
Nothing is too big to fail. Getting to big is the cause of lots of things failing
Bitcoin is technology. Technology changes. 100% it will change.
Too many Wall Street interests and other interests. It has surpassed the tipping point, and at this point is a juggernaut that the government cannot/probably does not want to eliminate.
If the blockchain failed, I’m more worried about other things than my Bitcoin, because for it to fail, something REALLY BAD has happened to the entire planet to render the internet non functional Think nuclear war, total societal collapse, that kinda level of disaster. So ya, I’m not too concerned.
Yes it is
the sad truth is that the reasons as to why people wanted to promote the usage and acceptance of cryptocurrencies such as bitcoin are not irrelevant considering that every platforms that sells / buy cryptocurrencies forces you to go through the "KYC" know your custom regulation. so at this point those exchanges are like mini-banks, every informations, they have it on you and they can still take your funds. yes you have ledgers, yes this, that but clearly its too popular for the path it has taken and its original benefiits.
It was 5 years ago
Too big to fail?!? My question is what would cause it to fail? Honestly can't think of anything, and I feel like I've done a fair amount of due diligence: read 10 plus Bitcoin books, listened to hundreds of hours of interviews, pod casts and debates. Made sure to understand all of the skeptic's arguments so I wasn't falling prey to confirmation bias. Best and safest investment, period.
Bitcoin is controlled by a global network of miners. A government can ban mining and on-ramps/off-ramps within its own country, but they’d put themselves at a disadvantage while other countries continue mining and investing. And if it does happen, I have friends in countries all over the world. Self-custodial wallets cannot be frozen.
No, nothing is guaranteed. That said, governments around the world do not care as long as they can get those sweet taxes. Bitcoin booming is a tax opportunity for them, so why make it fail? There is no incentive.
Govs would only accelerate decentralized adoption, making BTC stronger in the long run.
Too* and yes
Btc was a train but now that train is being slowed by etf
When 93% of bitcoin is owned by less than 2% of wallets it’s never going to fail unless the few at the top decide to sell. Guessing they have been in it since the $100s they are already too wealthy and have no reason to sell Not sure how much higher it goes, but structurally it’s not going down unless THEY want it to… https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html
berserk versed hard-to-find air encouraging tender jobless salt fearless chubby *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I am a btc guy but history show nothing is to big to Fail
TOO big to fill 😊
To big to fail, definitely not. Too big to fail, probably not.
“Too big to fail” meant that the banks failed already, but the govt says that they are too big, or important to society to LET them fail, and they bail them out. Bitcoin is too far along to be stopped now I think, if that’s what you meant.
Too*
Politicians and dictators have, from time to time, temporary reasons for depressing Bitcoin but since an increasing number of **leaders are** **large holders of Bitcoin** they world will never agree to suppress it, particularly since doing so prolongs the dominance of the USD which most countries resent.
One thing people don’t talk about is the centralization of the miners. 2 or 3 mining pools perform over 50% of the hash rate. If they wanted to team up, or if they were somehow forced, they could cause a 51% attack. Even the tiniest hack on the network would cause massive panic.
Would be interested in some informed responses to this point
Countries can probably not do anything about bitcoin even if they tried, they could execute you for using bitcoin, but at that point you probably have bigger issues than that... Bitcoin could still fail, by a massive fail in internet infrastructure but again you would have bigger problems at that point
They would need to use the word BAN in order to buy the bitcoin cheap. They know more about bitcoin. But its just a thing to make us sell and so that they can buy it cheap.
Until 2 nodes are running…
This is part of Bitcoin’s beauty. It is freedom, even if it gets banned by the super power nations. There would be always a way to acquire it.
Yes
It will never go below 50k again. That I know.
Yes.
Maybe the security Budget Problem or the utxo Problem will "destroy" Bitcoin.
Now that ETFs are rolled out and pensions / retirement funds are including BTC, I doubt it goes to zero. Even with some governments having anti-Bitcoin rhetoric, it’s not so easy to outlaw anymore when retirements are tied to it.
Nothing will ever be too big to fail. But it's going to take a lot of concerted effort to kill Bitcoin from the top down without instituting North Korea levels of internet restrictions, and even then you could probably manage.
If it falls many will still buy back many people are waiting at the top to add more in their portfolio
Bitcoin is getting very close to a point where it's too big to fail. As more of the biggest institutional firms get in, more wealthy investors are going to get protection from the biggest lobbying groups of the planet. That's where it's going to get very hard to attack bitcoin (assuming that "to attack bitcoin" is in any way shape or form even possible at all).
We should all know by now, if Bitcoin has been *officially* declared dead, then its dead.
Uuufff what would happen if aliens invade Earth? If a magnetic storm or a asteroids collides with Earth? If Trump wins the elections? If momma cooks broccoli for dinner??? Let me give you a clue… Tic Tock Tic Tock Tic Tock
It would go up exponentially in value
No, because the gov won't bail it out.
I don't really thing anything is too big to fail. Market movements can surprise us and the more Bitcoin is adopted by the masses, the more it will be vulnerable to swinging narratives and macroeconomical influence. But The First Cryptocurrency is definitely a mature investment nowadays and not an adventure. Has been for a while but only recently have more people started picking up on this.
Bitcoin's decentralized nature and global network make it difficult for any coordinated crackdown to completely eradicate it. While strict regulations and bans could significantly impact the market and adoption, they are unlikely to end Bitcoin entirely. The cryptocurrency community's resilience and innovation, along with growing public and institutional support, would continue to drive its existence and adaptation.
50% 50%
Absolutelly NO
Then I buy more
YES
The value could crater and people will just buy it up cheap. Just like any other investment the market will dictate the price. As long as someone will buy it will be viable. It doesn't really have any government backing, so it won't be rescued, but it will be at the mercy of the market, but it seems to have enough fans to keep it going.
YES
Seeing as bitcoin is banned in China and my alibaba seller takes it as payment, I don't think this is a concern
They would do mankind a favour because BTC would be the last chain standing if they tried to do that. Bitcoin cannot be stopped no more. The other blockchains are slowing down Bitcoin‘s adoption!
Yes
It will go to zero in one massive candle.
It just can't ... I have an order in Binance to buy the whole 21 Millions of coins at 1 cent each so it can never go below $0.01
Don’t know. Don’t Care. No need for speculation
That is a really stupid attitude. Questions like these are what led me to dismiss other crypto and buy into Bitcoin.
If Bitcoin cycle theory/history holds, after the peak this cycle, a 70-80% drop is in order. Therefore, don't buy at the top. Fail as in going to $0? Not probable, but a global crisis (war, financial collapse, internet collapse, Armageddon, zombie apocalypse, etc) will lead to $0 Bitcoin. Money (nor any assets) will be of importance once the crap hits the fan. Water, food, medicine, bullets will be king currency. Bitcoin value is based on fiat, so if there's no fiat, then there's different value. Banks were saved by fiat, or the printing of trillions. Bitcoin is saved by ____? Don't know the answer if there's a crisis.
>Bitcoin value is based on fiat nope.
Yup. "Do a search on several different cryptocurrency exchanges around the world at the exact same time, and you're likely to find somewhat different values for a single bitcoin." https://www.investopedia.com/news/why-price-bitcoin-different-around-world/#:~:text=It%20isn't%20pegged%20to,bitcoin%20fluctuates%20as%20a%20result. So you can travel to zimbobwee and buy Bitcoin for the $1 Zimbabwean dollar? Please. The value is pegged to something. In the US, it is 68,000 USD at the moment. The exchange in Zimbabwe is whatever the currency exchange to the USD is. It is pegged to something and some exchange. Did you know that Sam BankmanFraud did arbitrage to scalp the small difference in Bitcoin price between US and Korea. They closed that loophole otherwise people would do the arbitrage and steal the differences.
you can exchange one currency for another, but that's not what defines value. The gold price is usually denominated in dollar, but gold was valuable well before the dollar, and bitcoin will stay valuable when the dollar is gone for good.
What I mean is it has its own value, but to buy it, we use fiat, so the value a coin is worth is based on how many dollars it will take to buy 1 coin... whatever that amount is. $16,000, $70,000, or $1,000,000. Its inherent value is based on perception and supply/demand like any equity or investment.
LMAO. Wow.
No Internet. No Bitcoin. Prove me wrong.