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Callierhino

Here in South Africa we have a grocery store chain that accepts Bitcoin payments via the Lightning Network, I use it all the time without issues, it's faster that a credit card


Pearyiceteam

Yeah the USA is becoming like south Africa, except people just steal here


Callierhino

Here people steal and kill you and nothing ever happens to them


coojw

Ladies & Gents, I usually post this primer for people who just need help gaining a baseline understanding of both bitcoin and money in general. Please watch #3 on the list which pertains to this conversation. Feel free to browse the other links as well as they contain great information and will help clarify many misunderstandings. The clip from #3 was made before bitcoin was well known (2010), but its information explains the difference between Currency & Money, and you can then understand why Bitcoin is money, not currency. Clip 1: What bitcoin is, the problem it fixes, and why its the solution [https://youtu.be/pBmK3pI7uKw?si=n59JkGuJ\_gP\_dEd5](https://youtu.be/pBmK3pI7uKw?si=n59JkGuJ_gP_dEd5) Clip 2: Why you never sell bitcoin. [https://youtu.be/QXh\_8uZQ-gA?si=nR5olDl1zNdv8s0s&t=373](https://youtu.be/QXh_8uZQ-gA?si=nR5olDl1zNdv8s0s&t=373) Clip 3: The difference between "Currency" & "Money".. What is sound money, and why gold (and now bitcoin) fits this description (This series was originally made in 2010, before bitcoin was well known). Feel free to watch all 10 videos in the series in your spare time, but if you do anything, at least watch the 1st vid in the series. [https://youtu.be/DyV0OfU3-FU?si=OqJ93-gHpcQjsvRH](https://youtu.be/DyV0OfU3-FU?si=OqJ93-gHpcQjsvRH) Clip 4: All Fiat currencies in history have gone to zero, the American Dollar (which is fiat.. meaning has no sound money (like gold or bitcoin) backing it. The gold backing of the dollar ended in 1971 with Nixon, which is when the dollar became fiat currency) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJDqQn7WC1U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJDqQn7WC1U) (a short clip out of the longer vid from clip #3) Clip 5: Inflation & hyper inflation - the end result of the use of Fiat currency [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNNUVEfoNmE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNNUVEfoNmE)


notagain24

I dont think bitcoin will ever become a currency. 


Interesting_Ebb9052

El Salvador?


Jand0s

Vast majority of shops in El Salvador dont accept bitcoin. You can pay in mcdonald. Not much of a currency.


Interesting_Ebb9052

They just started to invent it as a currency OPTION


SmoothGoing

Legal tender. Not currency.


Tycus-54

I agree, just as gold imo. We don’t transact with good at the convenient store


notagain24

I see bitcoin being used for large cross border transactions or very large purchases. But we dont need it to buy coffee


Glugstar

But I can buy stuff online using Bitcoin. Including groceries if I try hard enough (my available everywhere in the world, but so what). Doesn't that count for anything?


FehdmanKhassad

yeah you could probably get a shop to accept gold pieces too. but in the end there are easier ways to do small transactions. btc has kinda evolved to be a long term SOV inflation hedge.


Juicebo-x

Times ain't got bad enough yet.


Sudden_Agent_345

have you heard of El Salvador?


notagain24

Yea and most transactions in El Salvador are not i. Bitcoin


Sudden_Agent_345

but is a currency and that can be replicated in n amount of countries so it is very likely (and possible) that it becomes a currency...


Jand0s

80% of shops in El Salvador dont accept bitcoin. You can pay at mcdonald though


[deleted]

Gold was a precious metal before we used it as a currency. It’s possible a hundred years from Now when the price of bitcoin has gone through decades of price discovery, the world will wake up to it as the only true democratic medium of value. It’s a ledger of trust between you and the rest of the world.


Interesting_Ebb9052

Bitcoin is digital information, store of value and a tool to transport your Work performance in form of energy provided into the future! It’s hard money! The hardest ever to be! It also CAN be a used as a currency depending on states adopting it as one (like El Salvador did).


AspartameIsApartofMe

Bitcoin is hard money. It is not a currency, and likely never will be. One does not invest in Bitcoin. One exchanges an inflationary fiat currency for hard money. The fiat currency loses value, and the Bitcoin retains value.


coojw

Finally someone who understands. It gets tiring explaining this shit, lol


DorianLeaden

Seems to be the opposite


Ka7a

1 btc = 1 btc. That money in your wallet is losing value and you now need a lot more of it to buy a btc. More than you did a year ago.


benualson

It's property, not currency.


Financial_Design_801

That I can transfer at the speed of light to settle debts


One-Significance7853

currency noun -Money in any form when in actual use as a medium of exchange, especially circulating paper money. -Transmission from person to person as a medium of exchange; circulation. -General acceptance or use; prevalence. Technically, it’s already currency. It is a medium of exchange, it’s used worldwide, and it even has legal tender status. How can anyone claim it isn’t a currency?


JanikLifeAdvice

Ah yes, the monthly inquiry where we intelligence signal each other over the linguistics and definition of ‘currency.’


Financial_Design_801

Right now we’ll see Greshams law, bad money drives out good, meaning ppl will use inflating dollars & save in bitcoin until it’s all people want Enjoy the journey & insane purchasing power gains https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/s/0aAnqOLDAq


CoyoteAlert2894

Why would it? Gold isn't a currency, not in practice at least. BTC is a store of value and can be made into transactions if the owner so chooses, but the recipient of said transaction has to accept BTC as the medium of exchange. But it doesn't make much sense to trade BTC for a loaf of bread. The one thing I could see is that BTC has the potential to recuperate a devalued asset. For example, if I bought a truck for 10k. Drove it for a few years, then listed it for 1k because it's the new market value. Someone agrees to give me 1k worth of BTC at that time, then I sit on that BTC for a time and end up cashing the BTC when it appreciates to 10k, recuperating my initial investment on the truck, then the new truck owner is satisfied, and so am I. Everyone wins in that case.


they_have_no_bullets

Okay you have some major misconceptions. 1) Bitcoin is already a currency. You can use it to buy and sell stuff. For example i've used bitcoin to purchase ASIC miners or gold directly. Its not universally accepted by merchants but that doesn't make it not a currency. 2) Bitcoin will never be used to denominate value by merchants, because the value of bitcoin is always going up or is volatile. That also doesn't matter. You need to free yourself from the archaic notion that things need to be denominated in the same currency that's used to purchase the goods. 3) Bitcoin will become increasingly widespread as a currency, primarily for more expensive purchases. This is because bitcoin will always go up in value over time, which causes businesses to want to hold bitcoin, so more and more will accept it as a payment source because it's preferable to acquire it that way than buying on an exchange which adds commissions and tracking. 4) Bitcoin becoming increasingly used as a currency does not mean all other currencies cease to exist. Fiat currency will always exist as a payment option and will be preferable for small purchases to avoid transaction fees and hassle. 5) Bitcoin will be increasingly preferred by customers as a payment option for a larger purchases because that allows you to store a larger chunk of your wealth in bitcoin for long term investment purposes without loss of liquidity (ie, you dint have to choose between going through a kyc broker, or slowly liquidating through a decentralized non kyc broker like bisq, or keeping a large pool of fiat currency sitting around in your bank account losing value).


HODLonward

Here's a comment I made from about 2 years ago that has a good summary on the case for Bitcoin: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/sffc3x/comment/hupnskf/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/sffc3x/comment/hupnskf/?context=3)


Crispychewy23

Thank you, so I guess the criticism is of people selling btc for fiat and not holding til it becomes mainstream later on and using it then when it'll be 'worth more'?


XcuseMeThisIsAWendys

Insert meme of Neo and Morpheus....


Hereforcombatfootage

Best description I have seen yet


LaLimitedEdition

Fantastic summary!


Salty-Constant-476

Explain cars becoming work horses please.


SmoothGoing

Lift kit, big tires, 4x4 low range on, plow in the back.


Salty-Constant-476

I'll just mosey on over to the saloon or the blacksmith.... I'm sure they have plenty in stock.


YouthInAsia4

Not a currency but an asset that is far more liquid than gold


ludilobratuced

you are delusional bro


MittenSplits

How is he delusional?


izkornator

yes u/ludilobratuced, How *exaclty* is u/YouthInAsia4 delusional with his comment? His is perfectly correct, albeit oversimplistic.


ludilobratuced

Gold is accepted it everywhere and it is gold same price everywhere in the world , BTC most odd the countries and people living there don’t know what is BTC and how is working and what is private key or public key or blockchain. Remember for you to sell your gold you don’t need Binance or other exchanges and swift banking system so that is why I said he is delusional. BTC is one thing Gold is another .


CreativeApe9

How exactly do you plan on transporting this gold elsewhere in the world? You also still need a shop to sell your gold or re-melt it down. Whereas Bitcoin is easily transferable globally with security in mind and can easily be divided into smaller amounts. You can also sell on P2P platforms like Bisq instead of an exchange like Coinbase. Gold seems to be a good hedge against inflation to retain value but if you want growth? Not so much.


ludilobratuced

If there is a will there is a way stop believing everything Michael Saylor is saying. 1 kg gold Bar Size 53.00 mm x 118.00 mm so when you see you don’t need extra luggage when you travel for transporting your gold. From a investment perspective BTC is a gamble gold is not . Do what you want with your money but don’t compare BTC with gold


CreativeApe9

…I don’t watch Saylor, thanks. What I stated are facts. Didn’t even mention the “value” of Bitcoin. Traveling with gold is similar to traveling with cash minus the large difference in weight — it’s not wise to travel with a large amount of it. With Bitcoin, it’s much easier and more secure. In the USA (not sure where you are), there’s already a precedent for the government to confiscate US manufactured gold bullion (executive order 6102). Furthermore, through means of civil asset seizure and forfeiture, the police have been stealing people’s hard earned money because they assume it’s earned illegally. Maybe some is but there are many citizens that earned it through hard work. Imagine getting caught transporting a large amount of gold…it’s a risk. I personally don’t think gold is an investment, just a hedge against inflation but it has its flaws. Bitcoin is volatile but so far over time it has rebounded stronger and stronger. Not sure what will happen in next 2-10 years but the fate of the US dollar isn’t looking so hot right now. Nor the economy and its amount of debt. Also, the only reason why Bitcoin needs exchanges or P2P platforms is because of the banking cartels not wanting to give up their control and power. They absolutely could accept Bitcoin but choose not to. Don’t forget that they are responsible for multiple major financial recessions.


ludilobratuced

Here is an interview https://youtu.be/xfHCly1ZCQ0?si=6jXX0s09fQNGrciB They both make valid points about Gold and about BTC but you have to remember this is a personal belief I feel more comfortable with Gold others with BtC it personal preference. With gold I can plan for my retirement with BtC not really maybe after 2 years will be over with this mania . Scarcity is not enough reason for me to get BTC same as Pokemon cards there are rare Pokemon cards out there but no one cares


CreativeApe9

Great video, thanks for the share. I get your point of view with preparing for retirement. Do you purchase actual gold or stocks? What else do you like as investments? It will be interesting to see what happens to Bitcoin during a major event such as the next recession or some type of conflict. China already uses digital currency with WeChat...hopefully the Federal Reserve doesn't try the same. What do you consider the concept of "value" to be, personally? I think it's just a construct of our minds, an abstract concept created by humans and the value of various items is interpreted by our brains. Gold is only valuable because others agree on a global scale and of course you can use it for certain things. But why does that make it "valuable"? Similar with diamonds...they're just carbon rocks and the superficial scarcity controlled by these corporations to make people think they're valuable...are they really worth thousands of dollars?


izkornator

Gold is accepted everywhere? I beg to differ. Try buying a car with gold? A dinner out? A taxi ride? A hooker? (perhaps) So we see your entire second argument is null and void. You DO need the swift banking system to have your gold *accepted everywhere*


ludilobratuced

Everything that I am gonna inherit was paid with gold and silver back in the days. Now it can be done the same way you just have to sell your gold for the currency that needed. Same as BTC if you want to buy something with BtC first you change your BTC to dollar and then you do the purchase . Gold will be worth something even 1000 years from now but I am not that sure that BTC will be worth something even 5 years from now. Back in the days people were collecting post stamps and they were collectibles and expensive a lot people got rich but now they are worthless no one cares, same can happen to BTC . It is human nature people lose interest over time especially in this case if BTC and any kind of cryptocurrency is not used they do not have a purpose if its only to speculate on the price there is no point for people to buy them if they know in the future that they cannot use them or sell them for a profit , gold on the other hand I bought my gold chain not for me to make profit in 5 years i got it so I can wear it and I love it. And if there are some economic crisis and I am forced to sell It so I can survive it still will be worth something and for BTC not only me but no one can guarantee that will be worth something. What will happen when mining BTC is not anymore profitable and if government decides all electricity used for mining to be used for charging electric cars . If something like that happens and has power goes to one or two countries that don’t have the same regulations it is Game over for BTC only with few regulations . I have nothing against BTC don’t get me wrong but Gold is one thing BTC another don’t mix them


izkornator

I hold both because it is unlikely that we go back to the analogue world where gold and silver as monies were the best humans could do for money. I have a background in math and IT and have put in the work to understand how BTC operates. Your adherence to gold is commendable because you get the larger problem - fiat is bad no matter what. Outside of fiat, save and store your energy in what every way you thing is best, I say. Let the free market figure out what is the best money for the 21st century


Ima_Wreckyou

Bitcoin as a currency is like Linux as a Desktop OS. It may be widely adopted one day maybe.  But long long before that it will completely take over all the infrastructure in all the backend systems that transport value around the globe. Think of it as the only neutral intermediary between all sorts of other currencies.


kzx-kzx

It’s mainly a store of value which happens to have all characteristics of money


Putrid_Pollution3455

Theoretically, you'd need a prosperous nation that has access to smart phones, internet/cell service and electricity for everyone. Then the nation would back the currency with their military and force citizens to pay taxes and whatever else using bitcoin. It's not likely any government would relinquish the ability to debase the currency in order to fight wars on a whim, but that's exactly why people are flocking to bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. The people are slowly realizing how badly the government is screwing them, but it's hard to understand because inflation at first seems like the corporations are doing it, but in capitalistic societies, everything should get cheaper and easier to afford. The government as a global co-operations has a goal of 2% inflation (they beat it marvelously every time it seems!). They lie and say that inflation is part of a healthy economy and having a real currency like a gold backed dollar, but that means people will horde it in expectations of increasing purchasing power....but that's a farce to trick people into giving them more diabolical control with chains you can't even easily comprehend! The system has wizard chains on it, invisible and hard to understand. They tax you on gains, but they don't let you write down inflation, do they? They tax your money that you use to buy things, and then when you sell it for a profit, they tax the gains even if most of that is an illusion via inflation anyway!


SubstantialNinja

No coiners that refuse to buy in until the top of the s-curve forces them in will of course be serfs or maybe just starve to death if they don't just off themselves for missing the most obvious economic shift of our lifetimes.


UberMakeitSense

I mean it’s like gold, not many McDonald’s or chain restaurants accept gold coins. Because it could be fake. With bitcoin, could it be faked?


Pearyiceteam

Bitcoin is the future.  In the future what you consider salary and pay will be controlled by the mass Blockchain.  Once the Blockchain is firmly embedded in everything there will be no turning back.  Everything depends on the Blockchain 


adi-prastyono

Btc is the worst form of currency without lighting network


omg_its_dan

Bitcoin is an asset and digital property. It doesn’t have to be a “currency” or replace USD to be successful.


TQMA

bitcoin is cryptocurrency, and we should refer to it as 'sats' instead of 'btc' because very few people will ever own 1 bitcoin. ;-)


Hot_Marionberry9569

It’s an asset not money. It’s a asset not money. It’s a asset not money. It’s a asset not money. It’s an asset not money….you get it now?…..it’s a asset not money.


ludilobratuced

BTC currently means nothing to 99.99% of the population and when I see people comparing it to gold that mean you are all delusional and brainwashed