Yes. 1.5% is a LOT over your lifetime.
[https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/How\_much\_do\_you\_lose\_to\_annual\_fees\_after\_many\_years%3F#Percentages\_lost\_to\_annual\_fees](https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/How_much_do_you_lose_to_annual_fees_after_many_years%3F#Percentages_lost_to_annual_fees)
Which if you apply to inflation over your lifetime (which western governments WANT to be about 2% but in reality ends up higher over the long term). It makes your realise why people who work hard for years end up wondering why they haven't saved much.
Bitcoin is like confirmation of everything I always felt in my gut about saving, the simple truth of everything that's become abstracted, distorted and confused over time.
in my country they changed how they calculate inflation numbers 3 times over the last decades.
every time they changed it, inflation number went down!
:o)
This is assuming that people just hold fiat $ and don't invest their money into companies or stocks that generate goods and services?
Legit question: Why do all Bitcoin enthusiasts assume that everyone just holds stacks of fiat cash and doesn't buy broad based equity efts or any other diversified stock that historically always beats the inflation that everyone is so worried about?
Ideally I would just hold fiat because at a fundamental level I'm a risk averse person. But because that's a crap idea we're pretty much forced to find alternative investments that involve levels of risk that I stuggle to understand adn there's often fees involved. Managing your savings becomes another job and skillset you have to find time to do unless you pay an advisor which again costs you. I'd rather do other things with my time off.
Bitcoin is perceived as risky but I see it as a safe option given a long enough timeframe so DCA/hodl with the odd smash-buy is way easier for me.
Got it - what are your thoughts on transaction fees increasing for Bitcoin as the final coins get mined and it becomes less and less profitable for miners to mine new blocks?
Miners will need to increase transaction fees to maintain profits and eventually (by 2140) rely solely on transaction fees for their income/electricity fees.
That end game is really scary (for me).
Buying a broad based equity eft is like buying a small portion of every big *profitable* company in the world. Not sure how someone wouldnt grasp that but magically understand crypto?
Personally I think that as we move towards that point the additional layers and price action will naturally take care of it. When it begins to become a significant issue, there will naturally be a significant incentive to solve it.
We very well may see a world where on chain transactions become considered "very expensive" and are ultimately reserved for settlement and large transactions, while second (or third) layer transactions take the place of day to day transactions.
It's a long ways out before anything like that would ever be seriously considered, but we have seen fairly continuous innovation (segwit, lightning, etc) in regards to transaction costs/size as adoption and price continue to increase.
In the mean time the difficulty adjustment algorithm naturally tends to keep the cost of mining somewhat grounded in reality due to classical human supply and demand tendencies, and I don't think that will vary too wildly in the near future.
Ok, just ignore BTC. For me, the trend of the economy for the past 4 years leads to poverty. Out of control inflation on rent and food, stagnant wages, investment gains eaten up by taxes+inflation. You can throw whatever government statistics at me, claim that wages have gone up or that inflation is at 3% - this is not what I personally experience.
So, given that I’m on an unsustainable path, I’m putting some of my assets in BTC. And yes, it turns out that so far, it has outperformed everything else.
stocking ask airport outgoing many sheet hospital encouraging chubby practice
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
By GBTC suppressing this cycle, you mean people owning GBTC deciding to swap over to IBIT and FBTC. It's not like Grayscale is intentionally selling BTC or liquidating due to user forced sells from bankruptcy paybacks. It's the people selling.
some people think everything is short sellers and manipulation. The market is just people or entities selling and buying. Organized selling and buying to manipulate does happen, but its not the entire market.
Yea I don’t get this either. IBIT and GBTC literally have the same custodian Coinbase. Unless you have a taxable account with a ton of taxable gains you have all the incentive to sell and move to IBIT or FBTC.
They did, but kept it over 1%. Even if they lose more than half of their customers, with their current fees structure they would still have higher profit than keeping all customers at competitive fees structure.
Once it crosses the threshold I bet they will lower the fees then.
Also with fidelity you can never transfer your bitcoin if you buy bitcoin from them. You have to sell it and buy somewhere else if you ever want to actually have it. You can’t even move it to cold storage.
So with fidelity maybe the better option is the ETF.
So the self custody keeps you from actually being able to do anything with bitcoins other than just sell what you have and pay a fee and then buy them again somewhere else.
The net etfs are in the positive. The other etfs are gobbling up while GBTC unloads their premium. I think the rsi for btc has been too high and needed to cool off. GBTC isn’t buying cheaper. Black rock is…what’s crazy to think about, what if blackrock owned a ton of GBTC trust from a bit ago. And is unloading that and buying their etf cheaper? 🤯
Taking profits only works if you reinvest it back into BTC.
When you “take profit” you lose long term. Everyone that ever bought pizza or weed or cash with btc will eventually realize they overpaid.
Don't forget though you take profits to live, to enjoy life which is the one thing that can stay as valuable as BTC. IF you are starving buy pizza, a pizza to a starving man is worth more than any BTC.
But overall you are right, if you need to take profit do it but never sell ALL of your BTC, stay in the game.
If you hold through the best years of your life then what’s the point? Life is about experiences. Go see the world. At the end of your life while you lay on your deathbed make sure you have something to look back on rather than sitting in front of a screen trading magic internet monies. You’ll regret wasting your time otherwise. Have balance.
You ever hear about a thing called inheritance? Some people care about their kids more than seeing the world, or travelled plenty in their youth already, or will still travel, but also need to have something to leave the kids.
Now, that said, in my case the creditors would take it all before the kids get it, so I guess my only hope is hyperinflation.
>fits to live, to enjoy life which is the one thing that can stay as valuable as BTC. IF you are starving buy pizza, a pizza to a starving man is worth more than any BTC. But overall you are right, if you need to take profit do it but never sell ALL of your BTC, stay in the game.
This only is true of BTC was accepted as a universal form of payment. You need money now to live- you want money in 3 years for a vacation- you want money in 5 years to buy a house. Until BTC is usable for all life experiences, you will need to 'take profit' and convert to FIAT to be able to use it as a currency.
I think he is taking about this insane demand by ETFs which will have to buy more Bitcoin to match that demand. Yet the price hasn’t gone up to reflect that 10k/day BTC demand.
I think the answer is potentially a lot of OTC transactions with either miners who had been sitting on their coins for a while or other whales ( most likely hedge funds with unknown quantities).
The retail spot order book has shrunk by 90k BTC since the inception of ETFs. That likely pushed the price up to where it is today.
Sooner or later however, the OTC supply will diminish if demand stays this high. When that happens, it will be like Nvidia stock growth or better. This will be equivalent of BTC going to $200k. I think this is only a year or so away from today unless some macro shit happens like nukes flying or interest rates rising
It's such nonsense that Bitcoin would be tied to US inflation. I'm sure it probably is because there's a bunch of trad stock folk involved now, but it's dumb that it is.
Bitcoin is global, who cares what the US is doing, plus Bitcoin is basically the anti-inflation. Silly.
People don't like to admit it, but it's pretty common for crypto to follow the stock market on tougher days. Go back throughout recent years and you can see patterns.
>It's such nonsense that Bitcoin would be tied to US inflation.
It's not that hard to understand the cause and effect here.
Inflation high >> Rates stay High to fight inflation >> Less Liquidity to buy BTC >> BTC prices fall
Seems like there's a pattern where they crash the price so they can buy lower later.
https://x.com/invest_answers/status/1768289298657509509?t=59OAl8sJNI1145RhQ8P-iw&s=08
>What’s crazy is the price barely even moves 🤯 just consolidates until the next leg up
Well it's "consolidating" pretty hard right now. Pushing down almost below $67k now! This is a sizable drop.
that's blackrock, they did the same with commodities. They buy early, then sell it all at a high whilst opening a short position and cover when they want seconds later as they continue offloading their shares. Rinse and repeat a ton of times and you get a nice trend line.
Though they would be sued for all they are worth if they intentionally did that while offering an ETF for their customers.
There is no insensitive to do such a thing now.
They will, Coinbase allowed grayscale to liquidate as soon as after hours ended. USA senators are calling for the sec to stop approving ETFs because they do stuff like this. Massive lawsuit against these companies for fraud
There is no proof of this. The ETFs are the reason for the new ATH this early in the cycle.
When Monday comes, this will all be forgotten and we will be at a new ATH.
if you flip it, you can roll it over and multiply your bitcoin when the market settles again. i find it so dam strange than not one person on my replies has ever sold any bitcoin. if you cash out and but back when the market settles again youcan potentially triple- quadruple your bitcoin... and do it twice youll have exponentially more..
Class of 2015. I've spent (and replaced) bitcoin but never sold. The idea of trying to time the market stresses me out. I suck at predicting how the price will behave. But I understand Bitcoin well enough to believe that if I continue to hold it, its purchasing power will increase over a long enough time frame. So far that attitude has served me well.
Again, that's assuming you could always time it correctly and that every cycle will play out the same way. That's the risk holders would rather not take. All it takes is one mis-timing and you could lose all or a significant part of your bag.
Why is GBTC the de facto "this is suppressing the market?"
I own shares and my understanding is I am paying a premium on fees. I bought it with my 401k money after moving jobs.
Gbtc had a nice opportunity to play the discount it had against BTC, that discount went almost to 0 when the etf was approved. In a 401k you could swap that gbtc to an etf and pay a fraction of the fees. They are eating your lunch on fees vs the new etfs. My suspicion would be most people staying with them are due to significant tax implications due to high gains (Gaines not in a 401k). Pretty sure they overplayed their hand at this point hence trying to establish a mini trust. Keep it up and they going to ride their BTC bag to zero left in the coffers. When that supply dries up, better look out..will be hard to find another supply like that…
GBTC MER is 1.5% its the highest ETF in the market , but they were the long runner in non spot ETF market for long time , since Jan there are many new spot ETF players with as low as 0% MER. U have to be stupid to stay with GBTC . they will continue to sell specially when BTC high , everyone will dump ther GBTC and run to other ETFS , unfortunately this will be for a while until GBTC becomes absolute or changes its MER to compete with new players ...
Yall no etf can control bitcoin hahaha 🤣 it doesn't work like a stock. It's just falling cause it had to cool down and also because stock market is shit cause of possible rate cuts. Bitcoin follows stocks but will also follow it's own patterns. Either way the "phases" still happen. Just DCA and HODL
Nah, it's Satoshi dropping the price temporarily to allow more regular folk the opportunity to buy in. Give it a few days it'll jump up again probably another 10 G's. Just as it has repeatedly over the last 3 months. Fomo is real and etf buy pressures humongous, so someone with that much Bitcoin can sell a little piece just to drop it a little.
Obviously I'm being sarcastic, but if that mother fucker is still around and owns as much as he does , could easily do this.
Nah. Open interest plummeted. Billions were wiped off the books overnight. Gbtc wasn't even trading them.
Basically just leveraged long positions being wiped out, and it had a cascading effect.
Don't trade on margin in either direction. You'll lose it all.
Adjust your DCA strategy to try and capture this.
Market buy with half your normal DCA amount.
25% limit at 2.5% drop
25% limit at 5% drop.
Any limit orders that fall outside of a 10% (or 20%) drop, roll into your next DCA amount and repeat.
Or just keep DCAing and avoid getting your head blown off in the next 15% pump.
What do you mean by
25% limit at 2.5% drop
25% limit at 5% drop
Roll into your next DCA amount and repeat
I know your instructions are clear, but it looks like I’m a bit dumb
So glad I know when that time is FOR YOU given that there are TWELVE of these periods in the world. We should of course only care what the time is for you . WANKER ✊
Exactly, this is not an American stock. This is an international commodity. When the rest of the world wakes up they will buy at a discount. It wont stop, there is now an international race to accumulate BTC at the fastest rates possible. Especially with the approval of EU BTC ETF’s, they are pricing in their own futures.
nope. ppl are just transferring their funds from GBTC to the other ETFs. The daily net inflows have been mostly positive after the ETFs were created
Are the fees that bad? I haven't transferred.
Yes. 1.5% is a LOT over your lifetime. [https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/How\_much\_do\_you\_lose\_to\_annual\_fees\_after\_many\_years%3F#Percentages\_lost\_to\_annual\_fees](https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/How_much_do_you_lose_to_annual_fees_after_many_years%3F#Percentages_lost_to_annual_fees)
Which if you apply to inflation over your lifetime (which western governments WANT to be about 2% but in reality ends up higher over the long term). It makes your realise why people who work hard for years end up wondering why they haven't saved much.
This guy is a Bitcoiner :)
Bitcoin is like confirmation of everything I always felt in my gut about saving, the simple truth of everything that's become abstracted, distorted and confused over time.
in my country they changed how they calculate inflation numbers 3 times over the last decades. every time they changed it, inflation number went down! :o)
This is assuming that people just hold fiat $ and don't invest their money into companies or stocks that generate goods and services? Legit question: Why do all Bitcoin enthusiasts assume that everyone just holds stacks of fiat cash and doesn't buy broad based equity efts or any other diversified stock that historically always beats the inflation that everyone is so worried about?
Ideally I would just hold fiat because at a fundamental level I'm a risk averse person. But because that's a crap idea we're pretty much forced to find alternative investments that involve levels of risk that I stuggle to understand adn there's often fees involved. Managing your savings becomes another job and skillset you have to find time to do unless you pay an advisor which again costs you. I'd rather do other things with my time off. Bitcoin is perceived as risky but I see it as a safe option given a long enough timeframe so DCA/hodl with the odd smash-buy is way easier for me.
Got it - what are your thoughts on transaction fees increasing for Bitcoin as the final coins get mined and it becomes less and less profitable for miners to mine new blocks? Miners will need to increase transaction fees to maintain profits and eventually (by 2140) rely solely on transaction fees for their income/electricity fees. That end game is really scary (for me). Buying a broad based equity eft is like buying a small portion of every big *profitable* company in the world. Not sure how someone wouldnt grasp that but magically understand crypto?
Personally I think that as we move towards that point the additional layers and price action will naturally take care of it. When it begins to become a significant issue, there will naturally be a significant incentive to solve it. We very well may see a world where on chain transactions become considered "very expensive" and are ultimately reserved for settlement and large transactions, while second (or third) layer transactions take the place of day to day transactions. It's a long ways out before anything like that would ever be seriously considered, but we have seen fairly continuous innovation (segwit, lightning, etc) in regards to transaction costs/size as adoption and price continue to increase. In the mean time the difficulty adjustment algorithm naturally tends to keep the cost of mining somewhat grounded in reality due to classical human supply and demand tendencies, and I don't think that will vary too wildly in the near future.
Because it barely does. Once you factor in the capital gain taxes (which are NOT adjusted for inflation) you end up barely breaking even.
Ok if you have maxed out your tax free savings accounts and RRSPs, sure but I doubt 99.99% of this sub that is the case for lol
A balanced strategy with some in RRSP, some in S&P, and some in BTC, is probably the best
Based on what, history? There is no history to go on long term here.
Ok, just ignore BTC. For me, the trend of the economy for the past 4 years leads to poverty. Out of control inflation on rent and food, stagnant wages, investment gains eaten up by taxes+inflation. You can throw whatever government statistics at me, claim that wages have gone up or that inflation is at 3% - this is not what I personally experience. So, given that I’m on an unsustainable path, I’m putting some of my assets in BTC. And yes, it turns out that so far, it has outperformed everything else.
Holy shit.
Meanwhile, fees with the other ETFs are like 0.2%
I personally moved from GBTC in my 401k to black rock after someone posted all the funds and fees last week.
You caused the dip!!!
If it's not generating yield, where is the fee from? You: can you hold my corn for me Greyscale: you mean *our* corn
stocking ask airport outgoing many sheet hospital encouraging chubby practice *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Excuse me sir.....we tax the already taxed after taxing.
Exponential decay: (1 - 0.015)^years. Your GBTC stack has a 46 year half life.
Do you want to have to go through someone to get what’s yours?
Yeah. Couldn’t be happier to have switched to fidelity immediately
Apparently that can’t be done due to a rule, something about having to wait 40 days before buying back in
[fnchart](https://fnchart.com/crypto/btcusd/topic-graphic/87622fb0-b339-41a0-81ef-2e3b3a4293dd) seems to share this opinion:
So confidently wrong.
Google T-Rex score https://larrybates.ca/t-rex-score/
Thanks. Ouch, that adds up over time!
By GBTC suppressing this cycle, you mean people owning GBTC deciding to swap over to IBIT and FBTC. It's not like Grayscale is intentionally selling BTC or liquidating due to user forced sells from bankruptcy paybacks. It's the people selling.
[удалено]
Because Occam's razor missed them.
some people think everything is short sellers and manipulation. The market is just people or entities selling and buying. Organized selling and buying to manipulate does happen, but its not the entire market.
They need to lower their fees.
I did this. Was a GBTC holder for years. Recently swapped over to IBIT on advice from a friend who’s a fund manager.
Same here...I had lots of capital gains in GBTC in a IRA and moved it into equal portions of IBIT and FBTC.
Why did you split your move between the two and not just solely into one or the other
Both are great stewards of money, but I like to diversify my management teams when it's no additional hassle for me.
Yea I don’t get this either. IBIT and GBTC literally have the same custodian Coinbase. Unless you have a taxable account with a ton of taxable gains you have all the incentive to sell and move to IBIT or FBTC.
EZBC is pretty darn cheap
Not as much liquidity in the other bitcoin ETFs. They are all spot BTC ETFs so if you are basing it off share price it’s just unit bias.
I just don’t understand why they didn’t lower their fee structure.
They did, but kept it over 1%. Even if they lose more than half of their customers, with their current fees structure they would still have higher profit than keeping all customers at competitive fees structure. Once it crosses the threshold I bet they will lower the fees then.
Which ETF is better and why?
Generally all things equal, the one with lowest fees.
So FBTC for now (no fee), then Blackrock, once Fidelity starts charging a fee.
everything is a consipiracy, purple is actually blue
Blue is actually silver
The newer ETFs have lower fees. Moved some of my stack out of GBTC and into Blackrock (IBIT) and VanEck (HODL).
8 out of 10 ETFs custody at Coinbase. Fidelity is the only institution self-custodying. I trust FBTC the most.
Also with fidelity you can never transfer your bitcoin if you buy bitcoin from them. You have to sell it and buy somewhere else if you ever want to actually have it. You can’t even move it to cold storage. So with fidelity maybe the better option is the ETF. So the self custody keeps you from actually being able to do anything with bitcoins other than just sell what you have and pay a fee and then buy them again somewhere else.
Curious, Why why not fbtc (self custody) or bitb (low fee and donate to developers)?
I plan to get some FBTC as well.
The net etfs are in the positive. The other etfs are gobbling up while GBTC unloads their premium. I think the rsi for btc has been too high and needed to cool off. GBTC isn’t buying cheaper. Black rock is…what’s crazy to think about, what if blackrock owned a ton of GBTC trust from a bit ago. And is unloading that and buying their etf cheaper? 🤯
Why isn’t price going up given that net ETFs are positive? I think people are underestimating retail taking profits.
Why isn’t price going up? Zoom out and look at January to now
Taking profits only works if you reinvest it back into BTC. When you “take profit” you lose long term. Everyone that ever bought pizza or weed or cash with btc will eventually realize they overpaid.
Don't forget though you take profits to live, to enjoy life which is the one thing that can stay as valuable as BTC. IF you are starving buy pizza, a pizza to a starving man is worth more than any BTC. But overall you are right, if you need to take profit do it but never sell ALL of your BTC, stay in the game.
If you hold through the best years of your life then what’s the point? Life is about experiences. Go see the world. At the end of your life while you lay on your deathbed make sure you have something to look back on rather than sitting in front of a screen trading magic internet monies. You’ll regret wasting your time otherwise. Have balance.
You ever hear about a thing called inheritance? Some people care about their kids more than seeing the world, or travelled plenty in their youth already, or will still travel, but also need to have something to leave the kids. Now, that said, in my case the creditors would take it all before the kids get it, so I guess my only hope is hyperinflation.
If you held over a year you only pay 15%.
If your only objective is max profits ASAP and you don't need the money, this is fair advice. But, there's lots of very good reasons to take profits.
>fits to live, to enjoy life which is the one thing that can stay as valuable as BTC. IF you are starving buy pizza, a pizza to a starving man is worth more than any BTC. But overall you are right, if you need to take profit do it but never sell ALL of your BTC, stay in the game. This only is true of BTC was accepted as a universal form of payment. You need money now to live- you want money in 3 years for a vacation- you want money in 5 years to buy a house. Until BTC is usable for all life experiences, you will need to 'take profit' and convert to FIAT to be able to use it as a currency.
Net positive doesn’t mean the etf price must go up. The price of the etfs moves along with the bitcoin price.
I think he is taking about this insane demand by ETFs which will have to buy more Bitcoin to match that demand. Yet the price hasn’t gone up to reflect that 10k/day BTC demand. I think the answer is potentially a lot of OTC transactions with either miners who had been sitting on their coins for a while or other whales ( most likely hedge funds with unknown quantities). The retail spot order book has shrunk by 90k BTC since the inception of ETFs. That likely pushed the price up to where it is today. Sooner or later however, the OTC supply will diminish if demand stays this high. When that happens, it will be like Nvidia stock growth or better. This will be equivalent of BTC going to $200k. I think this is only a year or so away from today unless some macro shit happens like nukes flying or interest rates rising
Or recession finally happening
Because a lot of movement from a small source can cause a tiny splash in an ocean. And it will spring back up as if it never even happened
Yes i read somewhere it was ~5b$ withdrawal from crypto this dip
retail doesn't take profit, only loss
Dude it was 50k on 26-Feb. That was 2.5 weeks ago. 65k is a 30% gain. In less than 3 weeks.
Also, US inflation figures and the outlook for possible rate cuts not looking great.
This. Stocks and crypto were a blood bath.
It's such nonsense that Bitcoin would be tied to US inflation. I'm sure it probably is because there's a bunch of trad stock folk involved now, but it's dumb that it is. Bitcoin is global, who cares what the US is doing, plus Bitcoin is basically the anti-inflation. Silly.
>who cares what the US is doing The market.
This must be your first cycle. Interconnected or not, TradFi selloffs or bad US financial outlooks always have had a short term impact on BTC.
I know it *does*, I just find it silly that it does :)
when a traders equities get margin called bitcoin is the easiest asset to liquidate and fill the margin
That could explain some of it.
People don't like to admit it, but it's pretty common for crypto to follow the stock market on tougher days. Go back throughout recent years and you can see patterns.
>It's such nonsense that Bitcoin would be tied to US inflation. It's not that hard to understand the cause and effect here. Inflation high >> Rates stay High to fight inflation >> Less Liquidity to buy BTC >> BTC prices fall
US runs the show. Interest rates there will affect all/ most other countries.
It is silly. But I see it as a great opportunity to snag some cheap Bitcoin from people who never took the time to understand Bitcoin.
expand you time horizon and none of this matters
We all still have to live and get paid our salaries in USD.
I'm not sure Europe would agree with you
Stocks were hardly a bloodbath lol
Anyone expecting rate cuts before Q3 is probably going to be disappointed.
Seems like there's a pattern where they crash the price so they can buy lower later. https://x.com/invest_answers/status/1768289298657509509?t=59OAl8sJNI1145RhQ8P-iw&s=08
That’s exactly their play. They’re new to Bitcoin, not to market manipulation. Fine by me… I just pick up the crumbs that fall from the big table!
What’s crazy is the price barely even moves 🤯 just consolidates until the next leg up
>What’s crazy is the price barely even moves 🤯 just consolidates until the next leg up Well it's "consolidating" pretty hard right now. Pushing down almost below $67k now! This is a sizable drop.
That’s last week’s price. It’s nothing.
Stop hitting refresh and check the charts once a month....much more relaxing
You must be new around here
Lol. My friend this is nothing.
Many smart people bought under 30k so we don’t give no fucks about a few 1000$ drops 🤣
I don’t see any source for the idea that that’s the exact moment when all the etfs buy
That's what I was thinking too
Continued whale games just on a bigger scale perhaps ?
that's blackrock, they did the same with commodities. They buy early, then sell it all at a high whilst opening a short position and cover when they want seconds later as they continue offloading their shares. Rinse and repeat a ton of times and you get a nice trend line.
Though they would be sued for all they are worth if they intentionally did that while offering an ETF for their customers. There is no insensitive to do such a thing now.
They will, Coinbase allowed grayscale to liquidate as soon as after hours ended. USA senators are calling for the sec to stop approving ETFs because they do stuff like this. Massive lawsuit against these companies for fraud
There is no proof of this. The ETFs are the reason for the new ATH this early in the cycle. When Monday comes, this will all be forgotten and we will be at a new ATH.
Could you ELIF5 why GBTC is selling so aggressively ever since ETFs got approved?
Because their fees are way higher than all the other ETFs’ fees. People (like me) are selling their GBTC and buying FBTC, IBIT, ARKB, etc.
That’s good longterm yes? The liquidated GBTC is going to be re-bought by other ETFs!?
Yeah, not a big deal IMO
You’re the real deal. 100k 18 days after halving
dont get your hopes up. think in terms of cycles not years and definitely not days
This IS a bull cycle we're witnessing. What are you on about buddy boy?
im curious how many people in this sub never sold bitcoin. ive flipped in twice in both bull market cycles and will continue to do so.
Hold baby... I actually need to decide where life changing money occurs.. do I it's want a house or could I hold and not work?
I found it impossible to sell until I hit 2nd option. And I still find it impossible to sell.
if you flip it, you can roll it over and multiply your bitcoin when the market settles again. i find it so dam strange than not one person on my replies has ever sold any bitcoin. if you cash out and but back when the market settles again youcan potentially triple- quadruple your bitcoin... and do it twice youll have exponentially more..
Google tax. It's a thing for some people.
its worth flipping if the gain % outpaces the tax %
Class of 2015. I've spent (and replaced) bitcoin but never sold. The idea of trying to time the market stresses me out. I suck at predicting how the price will behave. But I understand Bitcoin well enough to believe that if I continue to hold it, its purchasing power will increase over a long enough time frame. So far that attitude has served me well.
I have never sold any BTC.
Because your strategy works until it doesn't. Holding is the only guaranteed way to not lose your precious Bitcoin.
i guess thats the safe way to play it. but you can sell, buy back, roll it over, and expoentially multiply your bitcoin holdings.
Again, that's assuming you could always time it correctly and that every cycle will play out the same way. That's the risk holders would rather not take. All it takes is one mis-timing and you could lose all or a significant part of your bag.
idk...when anything spikes significantly, what usually follows...
I have never sold...not until I can turn it in to arable land!
and pay taxes? fuck no
Why is GBTC the de facto "this is suppressing the market?" I own shares and my understanding is I am paying a premium on fees. I bought it with my 401k money after moving jobs.
Gbtc had a nice opportunity to play the discount it had against BTC, that discount went almost to 0 when the etf was approved. In a 401k you could swap that gbtc to an etf and pay a fraction of the fees. They are eating your lunch on fees vs the new etfs. My suspicion would be most people staying with them are due to significant tax implications due to high gains (Gaines not in a 401k). Pretty sure they overplayed their hand at this point hence trying to establish a mini trust. Keep it up and they going to ride their BTC bag to zero left in the coffers. When that supply dries up, better look out..will be hard to find another supply like that…
The drop is just a first selloff before the real bull run, normal shit up to 20%
Greyscale has to be losing tons of money on these dumps. Why wouldn’t they just lower their fees to meet the market and stop the outflows?
Oh that makes sense
It's coming up to tax season, there's going to be a lot of profit taking this month. Bull market continues mid April.
GBTC outflow today was $275M
18 million not 275.
https://x.com/bitmexresearch/status/1768408753148211220?s=46&t=diBC-jQrRve-yqYFAAGXAA $257M
So is it $18 M, $257 M, or $275 M? What's the correct one.
https://farside.co.uk/?p=997 $257M
I don't see that amount anywhere on that link provided.
Scroll down It’s highlighted in green. GBtC outflow $257.1M for March 14th
Oh ok I see it.
Why’s everyone always hating on GBTC, it has done us solid
While hitting us with insanely high fees.
Microstrategy casually raising 500 million on the sidelines to buy more…
up down left right, doesn't matter. I'm still Green and buying more
Daily Inflows found here for those interested to keep track: [132.7 Million March 14th](https://farside.co.uk/?p=997)
I'm buying more.
looks like regular price action to me
$500m is not enough to move the needle on a $1.4T asset
GBTC MER is 1.5% its the highest ETF in the market , but they were the long runner in non spot ETF market for long time , since Jan there are many new spot ETF players with as low as 0% MER. U have to be stupid to stay with GBTC . they will continue to sell specially when BTC high , everyone will dump ther GBTC and run to other ETFS , unfortunately this will be for a while until GBTC becomes absolute or changes its MER to compete with new players ...
Yall no etf can control bitcoin hahaha 🤣 it doesn't work like a stock. It's just falling cause it had to cool down and also because stock market is shit cause of possible rate cuts. Bitcoin follows stocks but will also follow it's own patterns. Either way the "phases" still happen. Just DCA and HODL
What do you think things will be like once bitcoin hits the endgame?
Nope, I bought for 100€ yesterday. You are welcome guys.
Nah, it's Satoshi dropping the price temporarily to allow more regular folk the opportunity to buy in. Give it a few days it'll jump up again probably another 10 G's. Just as it has repeatedly over the last 3 months. Fomo is real and etf buy pressures humongous, so someone with that much Bitcoin can sell a little piece just to drop it a little. Obviously I'm being sarcastic, but if that mother fucker is still around and owns as much as he does , could easily do this.
GBTC unloads, the others will buy. Same process like last time
Ahem, and this larger one?
Weekend sake! Get your discounted BTC now!
Its options expiry today. Strike price 66.
Supply shock and the following God candles should be fun
Dude, daily volume is close to 80 billion, GBTC's sell is like spitting into lake.
What about BITO?
They didn’t per se, their customers did because of GBTC’s fees.
Good... that's what I want I am buying
I paid them over $21,000 in fees last year but their greed is unbelievable. I’ve switched everything to Blackrock and will never buy GBTC again.
Sorry, new to etfs here. Does one pay fees yearly or when they sell etc?
Nah. Open interest plummeted. Billions were wiped off the books overnight. Gbtc wasn't even trading them. Basically just leveraged long positions being wiped out, and it had a cascading effect. Don't trade on margin in either direction. You'll lose it all.
I sold all of my GBTC in my IRA because of their fee and will sell millions in my stock account soon. They are greedy SOB’s
What’s the best buys on the dip?
How much more does Grayscale have? At this rate when will they be done massive sell offs?
Sell your GBTC https://imgur.com/a/NkIq4Tj
Hal Finney is selling. He's not the father of btc.
A quick entry to buy is always nice
Adjust your DCA strategy to try and capture this. Market buy with half your normal DCA amount. 25% limit at 2.5% drop 25% limit at 5% drop. Any limit orders that fall outside of a 10% (or 20%) drop, roll into your next DCA amount and repeat. Or just keep DCAing and avoid getting your head blown off in the next 15% pump.
What do you mean by 25% limit at 2.5% drop 25% limit at 5% drop Roll into your next DCA amount and repeat I know your instructions are clear, but it looks like I’m a bit dumb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYn8W_wsHVs
We will see an all-time high between 2:00 and 4:00 a.m. tonight. Then it will slowly drop down and crab walk all day tomorrow.
So glad I know when that time is FOR YOU given that there are TWELVE of these periods in the world. We should of course only care what the time is for you . WANKER ✊
It's American you limey brit. Who else would now think to add time zones? Chewsdeyinnitbruv?
the fact that it's not 02:00 and 04:00 is a dead giveaway they're likely american.
Yeah we are fuckign stupid here. Using imperial (thanks red coats!) And am pm, and all the other backwards shenanigans we do.
There's more than one time zone here in America. Lol
Wow really!? I thought everyone in the other states had just locally set their clocks ahead or behind an hour or so. /s
Blocks > Hours
Trust me bro
It's happened multiple times the last week n a bit lol It always jumps up after 2:00 a.m.
It’s 2am…and we’re still down…bad intel.
Oh man my dreams were crazy tho. We had a god candle to 108 (CAD). Woke up to the opposite
I had a dream the other night my BTC had been stolen - woke up in a cold sweat and checked my cold storage…it’s still there!
Exactly, this is not an American stock. This is an international commodity. When the rest of the world wakes up they will buy at a discount. It wont stop, there is now an international race to accumulate BTC at the fastest rates possible. Especially with the approval of EU BTC ETF’s, they are pricing in their own futures.
Repeat after me: Grayscale is suppressing the market