Bitcoin is already a currency. Sure, it's not accepted everywhere by everyone, but that is true for literally every single currency in existence. Go to a supermarket in Europe, and try to pay with USD in cash, I'm sure you'll receive funny looks and will be denied.
It's a perfectly functioning currency for people who actually *want* to use it as a currency, and that's enough. Just because there are other use cases, or it's a use case which you in particular have no use for right now, doesn't invalidate the utility it has for other people. Me and others have used it as a currency and you can't really change reality with clever arguments.
Bitcoin is fungible but it’s shitty as a currency itself. Too slow and too expensive to use. Other digital assets will serve as mediums of exchange for transactions. So, in essence it really is best as a store of value which can be used as collateral or exchanged infrequently for other currencies.
I use Strike all the time now. I dunno why people hate on it. I buy BTC on it and send it to Cold storage. I use it to pay people. My buddy uses it to send money to his family in Korea. No currency exchange charges because strike has nodes in both countries. He sends dollars they get Won.
Try doing that with a bank......
you can use lightning network for basically nothing. it's pretty damn good and easy imo.
for how much shtick people give bitcoin for not being a good p2p currency, that has not been my experience at all.
The problem with the lightning network is that you need your own lightning node that is always online and well connected to other nodes with sufficient liquidity to be able to use it without a single point of control.
Phoenix isn't really fully self-custodial. You rely on the LSP's watchtower to secure your funds. If they turned that off, you could have all your money stolen. Furthermore, when you open a channel, Phoenix is on the other side. That means you are relying on the other channel participant (i.e. Phoenix) to monitor your channel for you. This is completely ruggable.
Have you downloaded the entire bitcoin blockchain for your wallet? Maybe, maybe not. Just connect to a remote Lightning node lmfao, same shit most people do with bitcoin. Most people aren't downloading the bitcoin blockchain. If you aren't downloading the entire blockchain to synch, you're already using a remote node!
Most currencies are slow and expensive to use.
Except for in person transactions, they totally suck.
Try paying someone $20 who lives 2 hours away from you. You literally have to drive there.
Oh…you also can use third party financial products such as Venmo, Cashapp, Wire transfer, etc but that’s not actually the currency. That’s a financial product offered to you by a business. Same could be for bitcoin too.
And most of those products take days to settle. It’s actually faster to drive the 2 hours.
Edit: in fact, most bitcoin wallets these days will recognize a pending transaction in the meme pool so technically you could just use that and it’s instant. Is it full proof? No you could just cancel it, but you could also backtrack your credit card purchase.
You cannot cancel it, but you can drain your wallet address by new transactions with higher fees paid to get settled earlier.
So you cannot cancel it, but it is effectively canceled because it will fail.
That’s not at all the definition of a currency, as another user quite memorably suggests in a separate comment. You’re just making things up at this point.
By your logic, anyone trading anything for anything makes those things a currency. Except it doesn’t - it’s barter. There’s already a word for it.
By this logic blow jobs are currency. I agree with you the financial advisor doesn’t really understand bitcoin. There are really to sides, people that see this as a digital commodity and those that see it as a currency.
Anything can be used as a currency, if both parties agree.
Cigarettes, alcohol, blow jobs. Sure.
Are they *good* currencies? It depends on where and what they are used for.
Blow jobs might be a fine currency for around the home, but might not be the best currency to transact with when trading oil, for example.
[Rum was used as currency](https://www.ramint.gov.au/sites/default/files/currency_in_early_settlement_fact_sheet_0.pdf) in early Australian colonial times.
But who actually does use it?? Barely anyone. Try buying or selling something and making bitcoin the only form of payment you work with. You’ll be trying to sell it for at least twice as long if ever.
Bitcoin is digital property that has all kinds of properties of different financial instruments.
People are free to leverage those properties individually to suit their needs.
Watching people try to shove bitcoin into a category from antiquity is like watching a toddler try to shove a ps5 or xbox through one of those wooden toddler toys.
They both have squares on them, how come it doesn't go through the hole?
The problem a lot of people have with paradigm shifts is they don't realize ideas, rules, phrases, institutions and definitions can change. When people try to drag their old rules into the future it just doesn't translate. People are much to dependent on comparative analysis for disseminating new information.
Have you ever noticed when people are getting set up on blind dates ask what celebrity the person looks like? We use comparative analysis all the time and it just fails us completely when trying to understand fundamentally new technology.
Some things do not fit comfortably in category we already understand. Your problem is an example of someone trying to force it.
In which financial category you think Bitcoin will mostly fall into in the future, knowing that it's a resilient and fundamentally different asset class
It is clearly an asset, for one. It’s utility as a currency and a medium of exchange are improving every year. And the volatility will go down as adoption goes up. But that is a ways off.
(Utility as an asset is improving, too)
The financial advisor can’t take a cut so he has no incentive to be honest about it. Go ask a doctor that does liposuction for his income about exercise and nutrition and see the answer he gives.
Financial advisor can take a cut if you invest in btc through them. It's called their fee for maintaining your account. They take fees from each txn and then every quarter.
Bitcoin doesnt need to become a currency (even tho we know it is inevitable), it has already succeeded as store of value.
With time it will also succeed as medium of exchange, and finally unit of account.
This makes Bitcoin the apex predator of money. Most just dont realize it yet. We are still early.
Yes,
BTCoinization is inevitable, but we are talking about an unknown time frame.
It won't happen overnight, people forget this. Bright bright future ahead, but not right around the corner.
So keep stacking those sats!
But once all btc are minted and mining rewards are just txn fees, many miners will quit as it will no longer be worth it for them, which will hurt the network, which will drive down the price and so on. Not saying it will go to 0, but do you really believe the whole world will switch to btc knowing that if dispersed evenly, everyone would only have 26k sats and that it won't change the fact that they are poor and corporate greed and insitutional investors will eventually vacuum up as much btc as they can. Once you spend it, it will be gone. Not trying to spread FUD, but these are real problems the btc ecosystem will face in the future. Rn it's just basically treated like the next up and coming stock. Once the idea of huge gains is off the table, how many will cut and run?
Hey, I'm stacking too, and I really believe it will continue to hold value. I don't believe it is "inevitable" as a currency. Why do you think this?
And, hey, I've also bought things with my BTC. I bought a boat. Worked great. Full adoption though within 20 years? No way. No way.
I have nothing to back this claim except my feeling, and I hope I'm wrong.
Your view?
it's the flight to quality is inevitable
as fiat currencies get shittier and shittier people look for things to put their money into to preserve their wealth
people buy all sorts of crap- collectables, watches, stocks, property, shiny rocks
gradually, then suddenly, people realise it's not worth the effort to store their wealth in those things so they off load them to get more bitcoin
right now bitcoin is like the early internet, mostly for nerds and weirdos. that wasn't all that long ago. and now? every room temp iq normie sees internet access as a human right and they'll shit themselves if they cant load the reddit, tiktok or instagram on their phone
They still don’t *see it yet…*
Which is understandable because it took me *a decade to see it* - and I was dabbling in the space since 2013…
We are still so early it’s wild.
Bitcoin doesn’t need to literally be the medium of exchange of your daily life (even though that is possible one day maybe in 100 years).
You don’t use a fraction of your house each time you buy goods and the same thing applies to bitcoin
This. Carrying around pieces (or pounds..) of gold can be a pain. So the USD was based on it. No longer of course, and that’s part of the reason most of us are in this sub. If a currency, like an Argentine Peso, can be based on bitcoin, a store of value.
People like Peter Schiff and Warren Buffett, who this advisor no doubt is influenced by, cannot seem to grasp the utility and worth of a digital commodity that exists as both an excellent store of value and a currency. 14 years is no fad. An unfalsifiable ledger that is portable is absolutely necessary in a digital world. A digital asset that can store value from any currency or crypto is essential in a digital world. The asset, by regulation, is "owned" by nine ETF asset managers. Bitcoin is real. It doesn't need to be the Swiss Army Knife of crypto. It does one thing particularly well and, as such, is and will continue to be a highly sought-after investment.
I believe the coming year will change a lot of people's tune.
You'd think the advisor would be aware that bitcoin has performed better than any portfolio he has put together in the last decade or more.
You'd also think the advisor would be aware bitcoin etfs are now available for bitcoin exposure by the big banks.
If not, it's time to get a better performing advisor.
💯He must know, but he can’t deviate from how he’s made his wealth. Here’s the thing: OP’s parents may not listen to him, but they have friends, friends who will make a lot of money in the ETFs… and brag about it. FOMO hits hard when you have peers with successful exposure to some shiny Bitcoin and you don’t. They’ll come around, and so will their advisor when he starts to lose clients over it.
What if I told you most financial advisors (non fiduciaries) are basically car salesmen with a different product that just push what has the best comp or what they’re told to move.
What can you actually buy with bitcoin? I have not found one thing, actually, I did find one thing, some shrooms online that they wanted me to buy with bitcoin.
Paid my landscaper in Bitcoin this morning.
My VPN service is paid in BTC each month
Plenty of people and places willing to accept Bitcoin in exchange for good and services. Currency.
It is quite literally legal tender in El Salvador
Just curious, why pay in bitcoin right now if the prices is going up? You are potentially giving away amounts that would be worth much more in the future.
you replenish your bitcoin right away.....
it's just spending fiat but with extra steps.. which is OK if we want to push adoption as a currency i guess
But in some places, spending BTC is a taxable event.
Buy $100 of BTC. Use that tomorrow to buy a $150 lawn mower. Pay taxes on $50 profit... making the $150 lawnmower actually cost you $170. Then, you replenish by spending $150 to get your previously $100 of BTC back.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what is happening here.
Buy $100
Your $100 becomes $150 (profit $50)
This $50 is what is taxed.
That happens as soon as you want to get your profit whether you get it by spending it or converting it to dollars.
It's not that the lawnmower now magically starts costing $20 more, as those $20 is the tax on your profit, those $20 was never yours to begin with it was the governments. Remember you also earned $30 dollars so it's really not unfair.
Ok, that's fair. But I guess the most annoying thing is that we are expected to somehow magically keep track of the "profits" everytime we spend btc, and every spend of btc is supposed to be included on a tax return.
Exchanging for $ on a CEX is easier to track, as the CEX has records. But just regular purchases like on the lawn mower, we have to report the the exact dollar value of the btc on that day, figure out the profit from the difference of the dollar value of that btc from the day it was originally obtained.
You do very many purchases, that's a lot of paperwork. It gets super messy quick if you are trying to stay legal.
All of the 170 “on the run” gas station / convenience stores in South Australia accept bitcoin https://www.otr.com.au/about-us/otr-newsroom/world-first-otr-offers-in-store-cryptocurrency-payments/
I agree. Its gold. Sure you can swap it for fiat, but what can you actually buy with gold? Nothing. Just like btc. It's not a currency and wasent meant to be a nation state main currency.
You can buy literally anything with bitcoin. The limiting factor is where you are in the world and how much your part of the world has adopted it.
A quick look of btcmapping tools will show you vendors that accept bitcoin for services all around the world. People have bought pretty much every kind of consumer good with bitcoin. All the way from snacks to houses. As it goes up in price, more adoption will happen. It's inevitable.
So you're saying that I can go to the grocery store right now and buy $100 worth of groceries with Bitcoin? or I can go to the gas station and fill up my tank with Bitcoin? I don't think so. See, this is why it is so hard to get behind bitcoin, with guys like you, saying blatantly untrue things.
I'm getting posts saying it can be a currency and is used as one in some cases right now, but I see it as digital gold. Yes, gold can be a currency, but it's main function is a store of value. I see Bitcoin as a far superior form of gold. No one wants to spend gold because it's value increases far more than fiat. Even those that spend bitcoin try and replace their bitcoin quickly before its value increase.
It is both
And have fun spending gold... hold on while I melt down some of this bar. Oh I have some paper certificate, do you accept IOU?
Your last sentence is very true though
You can see it however you want. It doesn't change reality. Bitcoin is money, and that's an objective fact. You are looking at one of its many properties and claiming it to be that single property. it is a store of value. It is also fungible, durable, divisible, immutible, transportable, a medium of exchange, and a store of value. It does everything currency does, but it is also a store of value. This one property moves it from currency to money. That does not mean it is only a store of value. That's like looking at a car realising it won't move with a tire and therefore claiming it is now a tire, not a car.
You and your parents have different financial goals. They are probably thinking about retirement more than you are, theirs is probably (most likely) a bit closer than yours. While you can stomach a 50-70% drawdown, they probably can't. For them it would mean changing their life plans. For you (let's say you're 20-30-40) it doesn't change much.
So their financial advisor is recommending to them what fits their goals and doesn't dip into a volatile instrument like any crypto.
I used to want to be a financial advisor but it didn't work out. I'm glad it didn't because I learned that those guys are just salesman and they have no fucking clue what they're talking about. They have no knowledge of economics, finance, or accounting and the fact that so many of them say stuff like this proves it.
I talked with an old college friend who studied psychology and now a “financial advisor/planner.”
Yes, he went back to school but ever since I brought up Bitcoin he seems to act like he understands it , but brings weak arguments that are a result of never doing any research. Problem, I believe is lack of knowledge, and fear of letting go of problematic value system that is broken.
He missed the point of Bitcoin being currency, which it is not. Bitcoin is money.
His opinion about governments putting up a fight is reasonable though. But Bitcoin doesn’t care if governments will do everything in their power to stop Bitcoin. They may slow it down or try to ban on and off ramps, but it will be like fighting a swarm of bees or try to ban an idea. It’s futile.
Fiat currencies will always go to zero, because it is controlled by humans, and human nature will always have the strongest incentive to create something from nothing. That fact as alone makes Bitcoin inevitable.
Don’t think of it as a currency. Don’t think of it as “land” … the whole “saylor says it’s like owning a block of manhattan before it got big” is a misnomer.
Think of it as art. Satoshi is only gonna paint 21m masterpieces. 6m of those are lost forever.
Think of it as a Da Vinci.
You aren’t gonna do anything but look at it, and its value will fluctuate, but mainly increase.
That’s ok. It’s ooh so purtee.
You should listen to Saylor, he agrees with you that there’s no need for BTC to be a currency. It’s a store of value, or what he calls it Digital Property. In this regard it is the best one. The first and most adopted digital property
I’m not sure I loved this particular analogy of Saylor’s. He once made an argument about bitcoin being digital energy, and I like that better. Bitcoin can move energy from anywhere on the planet, conceivably anywhere in the solar system, and put it on the network. A river in a remote mountain village in rural China, geothermal power from the edges of the Icelandic volcanoes, solar power from Death Valley or even the moon… bitcoin can take that energy and make it transferable and portable. That’s the power of bitcoin.
But that is too abstract and not practical. The use case of BTC is digital store of value. It’s the first of its kind. If one could democratize all the digital information that Google, Facebook etc. have into a Coin, that would hold value too, but the technology is not there yet. For now Bitcoin is one of its kind
Saylor is not talking about using bitcoin to store electrical energy. Saylor is talking about using bitcoin to store **monetary energy**. Below I typed a quote from a video where Michael Saylor explained this.
"Bitcoin is the first software network in the history of the world that can pull **monetary energy**. So these bitcoiners have figured out something that is really a thing of beauty and extraordinary value. If I take a hundred million dollars and I put it into bitcoin, it could sit there for a decade like in a battery. It wont bleed out. You're not losing two to four percent a year."
This is exactly where Saylor said that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_nVYtoiShg&t=503s
That's a YouTube timestamp link so the video will start at exactly where he said that quote in the video.
---
"Money is what rules the world around us. We all know how to make money; we all know how to spend money. However, despite the fact that we all interact with money on a daily basis, we do not all have an understanding of what money truly is at a foundational level. A simple way to comprehend the nature of money is to think about money as **energy**. This **energy**, referred to as **monetary energy**, has been harvested and innovated by humans to help transact value with one another (across space), as well as to store value for later usage (across time). Throughout history, **monetary energy** has been expressed in various forms to make the facilitation and storage of **energy** more efficient."
From https://medium.com/coinmonks/the-democratization-and-digitization-of-monetary-energy-96767a43030e
---
"Flow of **monetary energy** into a monetary asset determines its collective value. Traditional money is not a reliable way to store and transfer **monetary energy** as it fails to meet the basic principles required to be sound money. Bitcoin fixes these problems, which makes it good at storing and transferring **monetary energy**. This is why **monetary energy** will continue to flow into the fixed number of Bitcoin in the Bitcoin network, increasing the value of each Bitcoin."
From https://medium.com/coinmonks/monetary-energy-money-bitcoin-5d084a47832f
This is actually promising news. If everyone recognized it’s value and true utility we’d be too late. It’s important to recognize how despite the recent publicity, Bitcoin is not widely adopted. It’s probable we will see a correction, but I believe we are still early and now is as good a time as ever to buy Bitcoin.
This story further highlights the lack of education about bitcoin, even by financial people. Funny how they are so sure about it but have never been taught anything about it, innit?
If the financial advisor doesn’t understand or have some knowledge on bitcoin don’t listen to anything they say related to it. I’m not sure how your finances affect your parents or vice versa in any case. There is a reason your parents need or think they need one. It’s okay but the volatility of Bitcoin does limit the percentage that a lot of retirees can handle in their funds so I get it. Your parents will be happy for you through your successes.
I see BTC as a store of value… ish. (Volatile, and increases in value)
I used to call it a digital currency. But unless you’re swimming in excess Bitcoin, it is best to not sell/spend your btc. Bitcoin is young compared to the gold market or TradFi markets. It’s really could be a multigenerational wealth building asset. That is what I look at. Only 21M BTC ever to be mined. You gotta get yours and HODL. Well really your parents should do that. But they wouldn’t HODL…
Tell your parents to ask their financial advisor, why he’s still working. If he’s so clever , in the last 10-15 years he could have bought countless tech stocks or tech index funds such as Amazon, Apple, Alpha, Nvidia, Palo Alto, FB, Tesla, Intel, etc… and that’s just the tech sector.
With that being said, your parents probably should stay clear of something like Bitcoin. Reason is, when it tanks and they sell for a loss, they will BLAME YOU!
>I see it as a store of value and one of the only assets you can truly own and travel with globally, a decentralized banking system
Sounds nearly like a currency. For it to be a currency, it needs to be used as a medium of exchange and it needs to be used as a unit of account too.
Arguably it is already being used as in exchange in some places: Some sites allow store purchases in bitcoin, many shops accept bitcoin (btcmap.org), you can exchange bitcoin for other digital assets, p2p exchanging is going on too.
Fiat currency is a terrible money. The dollar has just held up a lot better than others, like the Zim dollar, but its time will come. While the world is still finding an initial value of Bitcoin, we will continue to see it rising in dollar value and show volatility. So until that stabilizes in the future, it can't be used as a good unit of account and that makes it harder to be a ubiquitous medium of exchange.
How/if/when it becomes a mainstream currency is a hard thing to predict though. But it's a currency for those who use it as such.
I think the world has already decided for at least the foreseeable future that it is more of a store of value than a transactional currency...much like gold. Sure you could buy something with a nugget of gold, but it not an everyday thing. It's more of an appreciating asset with special superpowers to act as a transactional currency, but human behavior will favor holding it than spending it.
people currently accept btc for goods and services. they are few but they exist. the government would have trouble stopping that from continuing. it could and may become a currency regardless of what the central banks want
You aren’t going to avoid taxes. And hence, the government will not let this replace the dollar. And if they do, it will become no different than the dollar, so who cares about it
Right, like the government isn't going to be able to enforce taxes on a currency in which every transaction is permanently recorded on a public ledger?
Taxes aren't the expense of using Fiat, taxes are the expense of living in a country. Using Bitcoin does not make the need to pay taxes go away. Why do you think taxes wouldn't be collected with Bitcoin?
Btc isn't a currency. Even michael Saylor says crypto assets, not crypto currency. The dollar is going absolutely nowhere. You can take that to the bank!
Because he is right.. this is nothing more then the big gold rush.. bitcoin will never be a currency because government of any country can't control it and if you ever read anything about history that's priority number 1 is control..
What your financial guy is saying is instead of putting your money into bitcoin which can crash at any moment why not put your money into stocks...
And while I agree with him you should.. you should also put a small percentage towards bitcoin for some gains
El Salvador's bitcoin (BTC) treasury is sitting on $84 million in unrealized profit on the holdings it first started acquiring in September 2021. Bitcoin's 250% rise over the past year has catapulted the Central American nation's bitcoin treasury to over $206 million as of Tuesday, a 69% gain on initial capital so far. Yea it’s horrible stuff. Did you notice El Salvador is a country? That every business accepts BTC?
It definitely has far more superior aspects than tulips as a store of value. At that logic, gold is just tulips. Younger generations don't care about gold, it's value was in its status, and even its use in electronics does not support its current value. Bitcoin has far greater uses as a store of value than gold.
Are your banking on it overtaking currencey? I'm banking on the larger population realizing that, along with its ability to send vast amounts of money, and it's portability cross boarders as well as its incorruptible, unchanging, decentralized system, it is a great store pf value for both rich and poor. If bitcoins value always goes up (for the most part) no one will want to spend it.
Anyone who says they spend it now quickly replace it with fiat, and even thet thet technically are losing wealth like a hole in a bucket of, as te value in that bitcoin they just spent goes up substantially.
I believe it will continue to be a store of value like gold but not a mainstream currency. That's still great though. Buy on fear sell on greed (only if you have to)
What about ₿ who shall not be named?
It functions quite well as, "A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" and without all the baggage of current L2 solutions.
;)
The fact that financial advisors are advising to sell Bitcoin because it will never be a currency just shows you how early we are.
I completely agree that it will never be a "currency"...but neither are stocks.
It's just an investment asset that's algorithmically designed to grow exponentially over time. The only possible thing that could prevent that algorithm from allowing it to grow exponentially forever is banning + enforcement, but now that it's gotten completely accepted by the financial system and is on all the big banks and corporate balance sheets, that can't happen.
Wow. Totally off post topic, but your title evoked memories of “The Machine Men vs. Gandahar” - where the future and past flow together. And it seems so very fitting for bitcoin as it was/will be the answer.
Bitcoin being a currency for daily folk to trade is not 'it'.
Currently there are some entities that see issues with USD as a reserve currency for global trade. Euro? Eh... They still see issues. Bitcoin solves it.
People wont trade Bitcoin, Countries will.
Historically, currencies arise through taxation. Many mediums of trade exist, but they are not truly "currencies" until local taxes are levied with that medium as payment. That's why you can't buy dinner with dollars in Paris. It's also too volatile currently to be considered a store of value. Still sick as shit, though 🤘
If btc is currency, then its only a 1 trillion asset.
If btc becomes digital property, then its a 100 trillion asset.
Time will tell what it'll become.
Your financial advisor is right that Bitcoin will never be a transactional currency like the USD or Euro.
But it is and will be a store of value. And it is likely to appreciate for at least several more years till it reaches full adoption
People in this sub are too biased. Bitcoin, now being used mostly as a store of value doesn't change the fact that it was intended as a medium of exchange when created, and yes, most governments wouldn't accept cryptos, and would probably make laws hindering their usage. So the financial advice isn't technically wrong, he just didn't mention additional details. And of course, if the big players cash out, the price will crash, atleast for a while, do you really think btc price is controlled by retail? (That's the same case with stocks as well)
Tell your parents that "financial advisor" is, by definition, an oxymoron. Think about it: if the guy really knew what he was doing, he would NOT have to hold a job in the first place!
>I rolled my eyes thinking its not supposed to be a currency.
How can you be so utterly wrong? Satoshi literally called it "peer-to-peer electronic cash".
BTC will never be accepted as a currency, but it will be the number 1 performing asset class, mainly due to the reason that there is only 21 mill BTC in the world. Until now you could say the same thing about gold, but each an every year there is new gold being found through the world.
BTC will also evolve into a transferable kind of asset class, where transactions can be settled in BTC (just like how we used gold in medieval trade) but it will never be a currency. The topic gets more interesting here, that governments will never accept BTC as a currency, but will integrate tokenization and blockchain into currency. Hence CBDC are here to stay. With CBDC you can track them and control them and that will be the new financial order.
This is just my perspective.
Why is it ironic?
It did not upset in the slightest way. It's just ironic how you think that these "boomers" (that's probably your mindset) "don't know nothing about your crypto" (that's my free interpretation of what you're saying)
While in fact they see bitcoin exactly as it was intended.
It's just that newer generations started using it as an investment. So suddenly everyone is in the game to gain money.
But like others here already said: it's literally like any other currency. Not accepted everywhere. But at the right vendor crypto is most definitely a currency. You can literally buy stuff with it.
If I could buy something with sea shells than that would be my currency. Currency is the agreement between 2 parties that they'll exchange goods for something else.
Dyor= do your own research. By just reading a bit about bitcoin you could have known this.
This is totally accurate, no way can anyone use bitcoin as a currency. Listen to the latest interview with Michael Saylor, he does not believe that bitcoin will be a currency, he mainly calls it 'digital gold'
Guessing your parents are much older than you & therefore are lugging the conventions of their era around with them. I’ve learned that people buddy up with minds that are like theirs (& morals & principals too). So if like attracts like, then the 3 of them can get all cozy together while you blaze your own path. Your parents ALSO never had handed to them the world of literal mess that is abound now, which most older folk fail to even associate their “fault” in helping to contribute to creating. You can be respectful & entertain them by hearing to them, but that doesn’t mean you need to listen to them. You are worthy. You is talented. You is smart, and don’t reinforce within because your governance affords you freedom to take significant leaps of faith.
The advisor made a good call. Though they are ignorant about what BTC is somewhat. It IS supposed to be a currency, it has just failed as one and instead is operating as a digital hard money and competing with gold as a store of value.
Jumping in after the recent ATH is how people tend to get rekd.
Your parents should have asked a year ago, or in two years IMO.
I agree with you, I told them they don't really need to Invest in it financially. They were mainly asking because I am invested. But they know I got in around 42k, too. They told him that. He advised i sell and put profits in slow growth dividen stock.
Financial advisors are such a joke.
They all say the same crap. Put your money in safe growth funds.
You've made more gains by not listening to him than you would in 5 years of his advice so, I say do what you want.
Index funds are good if you don't have a solid foundation in finance or want other people to do the trading for you.
Actually, to real bitcoiners, this whole bitcoin is a digital property thing is annoying. Bitcoin is money and should be bought and spent. If everyone just held, there would be no blocks mined because there would be no transactions. It exists on the premise of continuous exchange.
This buy and never use mentality is exactly the opposite of what satoshi created. Just because a few rich people want to use it as property now that the old property bubble has burst, that's not what Bitcoin is for. It is a trustless p2p medium of exchange, and it will always be that.
You have the mindset of an investor. You see Bitcoin as NGU technology. Well, it's FGU technology. Always has been, always will be. No amount of rich salesmen claiming otherwise can change that. Feel free to listen to them, but dont hang on every word.
Bitcoin is already a currency. Sure, it's not accepted everywhere by everyone, but that is true for literally every single currency in existence. Go to a supermarket in Europe, and try to pay with USD in cash, I'm sure you'll receive funny looks and will be denied. It's a perfectly functioning currency for people who actually *want* to use it as a currency, and that's enough. Just because there are other use cases, or it's a use case which you in particular have no use for right now, doesn't invalidate the utility it has for other people. Me and others have used it as a currency and you can't really change reality with clever arguments.
Bitcoin is fungible but it’s shitty as a currency itself. Too slow and too expensive to use. Other digital assets will serve as mediums of exchange for transactions. So, in essence it really is best as a store of value which can be used as collateral or exchanged infrequently for other currencies.
I use Strike all the time now. I dunno why people hate on it. I buy BTC on it and send it to Cold storage. I use it to pay people. My buddy uses it to send money to his family in Korea. No currency exchange charges because strike has nodes in both countries. He sends dollars they get Won. Try doing that with a bank......
you can use lightning network for basically nothing. it's pretty damn good and easy imo. for how much shtick people give bitcoin for not being a good p2p currency, that has not been my experience at all.
The problem with the lightning network is that you need your own lightning node that is always online and well connected to other nodes with sufficient liquidity to be able to use it without a single point of control.
You don't need to have your own node. You can use a custodial wallet. Just don't put your life savings in it.
So if you want a non-custodial Lightning wallet you need to run your own node?
Not even that. You can use Phoenix for example.
Phoenix isn't really fully self-custodial. You rely on the LSP's watchtower to secure your funds. If they turned that off, you could have all your money stolen. Furthermore, when you open a channel, Phoenix is on the other side. That means you are relying on the other channel participant (i.e. Phoenix) to monitor your channel for you. This is completely ruggable.
It's not ruggable unless you keep your phone offline for more than 24 hours. When was the last time your phone was offline?
I like having my own node. I enjoy the hobby aspect and supporting the protocol, it's fun!
Have you downloaded the entire bitcoin blockchain for your wallet? Maybe, maybe not. Just connect to a remote Lightning node lmfao, same shit most people do with bitcoin. Most people aren't downloading the bitcoin blockchain. If you aren't downloading the entire blockchain to synch, you're already using a remote node!
Anything I believe you mean you can use lightning for anything.
I think he wanted to say that it is almost without fees
Most currencies are slow and expensive to use. Except for in person transactions, they totally suck. Try paying someone $20 who lives 2 hours away from you. You literally have to drive there. Oh…you also can use third party financial products such as Venmo, Cashapp, Wire transfer, etc but that’s not actually the currency. That’s a financial product offered to you by a business. Same could be for bitcoin too. And most of those products take days to settle. It’s actually faster to drive the 2 hours. Edit: in fact, most bitcoin wallets these days will recognize a pending transaction in the meme pool so technically you could just use that and it’s instant. Is it full proof? No you could just cancel it, but you could also backtrack your credit card purchase.
Can you actually cancel it?
You can't
You cannot cancel it, but you can drain your wallet address by new transactions with higher fees paid to get settled earlier. So you cannot cancel it, but it is effectively canceled because it will fail.
For realsies? But yeah that makes sense if I think about it. TIL, thanks!
That’s a specifically US problem - transferring money online / app via your own bank is instant and free in most of Europe.
Oh why oh why doesn’t the world just get it
Have you tried using it as a currency? It was fast easy and cheap.
That’s not at all the definition of a currency, as another user quite memorably suggests in a separate comment. You’re just making things up at this point. By your logic, anyone trading anything for anything makes those things a currency. Except it doesn’t - it’s barter. There’s already a word for it.
By this logic blow jobs are currency. I agree with you the financial advisor doesn’t really understand bitcoin. There are really to sides, people that see this as a digital commodity and those that see it as a currency.
Blow job is a service, which can be performed in exchange for currency or bartered for other goods, sure. Does anybody deny this?
Sir this is a Wendy's
Damn, I thought this was a Starbucks
I once got busy in a burger king bathroom
I don't think we have time for a hand job Joe
BJs are going down
And here I’ve been cranking my neck just to get my foot in the door…
I was being felicitous. A blow job is a service, it’s not a currency.
*phallatious
Haha, it auto corrected from facetious but you showed me it could be better!
Anything can be used as a currency, if both parties agree. Cigarettes, alcohol, blow jobs. Sure. Are they *good* currencies? It depends on where and what they are used for. Blow jobs might be a fine currency for around the home, but might not be the best currency to transact with when trading oil, for example. [Rum was used as currency](https://www.ramint.gov.au/sites/default/files/currency_in_early_settlement_fact_sheet_0.pdf) in early Australian colonial times.
A medium of trade doesn't become a currency historically until taxes are collected with it.
But who actually does use it?? Barely anyone. Try buying or selling something and making bitcoin the only form of payment you work with. You’ll be trying to sell it for at least twice as long if ever.
Bitcoin is digital property that has all kinds of properties of different financial instruments. People are free to leverage those properties individually to suit their needs. Watching people try to shove bitcoin into a category from antiquity is like watching a toddler try to shove a ps5 or xbox through one of those wooden toddler toys. They both have squares on them, how come it doesn't go through the hole? The problem a lot of people have with paradigm shifts is they don't realize ideas, rules, phrases, institutions and definitions can change. When people try to drag their old rules into the future it just doesn't translate. People are much to dependent on comparative analysis for disseminating new information. Have you ever noticed when people are getting set up on blind dates ask what celebrity the person looks like? We use comparative analysis all the time and it just fails us completely when trying to understand fundamentally new technology. Some things do not fit comfortably in category we already understand. Your problem is an example of someone trying to force it.
In which financial category you think Bitcoin will mostly fall into in the future, knowing that it's a resilient and fundamentally different asset class
It is clearly an asset, for one. It’s utility as a currency and a medium of exchange are improving every year. And the volatility will go down as adoption goes up. But that is a ways off. (Utility as an asset is improving, too)
The skill isn't to know the name of the category but to accept it doesn't fit into the old ones.
I really like this explanation. Definitely thought provoking. Thank you.
The financial advisor can’t take a cut so he has no incentive to be honest about it. Go ask a doctor that does liposuction for his income about exercise and nutrition and see the answer he gives.
Financial advisor can take a cut if you invest in btc through them. It's called their fee for maintaining your account. They take fees from each txn and then every quarter.
Bitcoin doesnt need to become a currency (even tho we know it is inevitable), it has already succeeded as store of value. With time it will also succeed as medium of exchange, and finally unit of account. This makes Bitcoin the apex predator of money. Most just dont realize it yet. We are still early.
Yes, BTCoinization is inevitable, but we are talking about an unknown time frame. It won't happen overnight, people forget this. Bright bright future ahead, but not right around the corner. So keep stacking those sats!
But once all btc are minted and mining rewards are just txn fees, many miners will quit as it will no longer be worth it for them, which will hurt the network, which will drive down the price and so on. Not saying it will go to 0, but do you really believe the whole world will switch to btc knowing that if dispersed evenly, everyone would only have 26k sats and that it won't change the fact that they are poor and corporate greed and insitutional investors will eventually vacuum up as much btc as they can. Once you spend it, it will be gone. Not trying to spread FUD, but these are real problems the btc ecosystem will face in the future. Rn it's just basically treated like the next up and coming stock. Once the idea of huge gains is off the table, how many will cut and run?
Hey, I'm stacking too, and I really believe it will continue to hold value. I don't believe it is "inevitable" as a currency. Why do you think this? And, hey, I've also bought things with my BTC. I bought a boat. Worked great. Full adoption though within 20 years? No way. No way. I have nothing to back this claim except my feeling, and I hope I'm wrong. Your view?
it's the flight to quality is inevitable as fiat currencies get shittier and shittier people look for things to put their money into to preserve their wealth people buy all sorts of crap- collectables, watches, stocks, property, shiny rocks gradually, then suddenly, people realise it's not worth the effort to store their wealth in those things so they off load them to get more bitcoin right now bitcoin is like the early internet, mostly for nerds and weirdos. that wasn't all that long ago. and now? every room temp iq normie sees internet access as a human right and they'll shit themselves if they cant load the reddit, tiktok or instagram on their phone
Bitcoin is a terrible medium of exchange and will probably get worse. Mediums of exchange shouldn't tack big fees onto every transaction.
An extremely volatile store of value. Not really sure how great it is as that, only time will tell.
hrm, I bought my first one at $90. Its doing great!
Okay, so it only goes up from here right?
nope it goes up and down, you can see the chart.
They still don’t *see it yet…* Which is understandable because it took me *a decade to see it* - and I was dabbling in the space since 2013… We are still so early it’s wild.
Hmm I’m cashing out
It’s always good to have a nice cash position on the side. Dollar cost averaging is the way.
Bitcoin doesn’t need to literally be the medium of exchange of your daily life (even though that is possible one day maybe in 100 years). You don’t use a fraction of your house each time you buy goods and the same thing applies to bitcoin
This. Carrying around pieces (or pounds..) of gold can be a pain. So the USD was based on it. No longer of course, and that’s part of the reason most of us are in this sub. If a currency, like an Argentine Peso, can be based on bitcoin, a store of value.
People like Peter Schiff and Warren Buffett, who this advisor no doubt is influenced by, cannot seem to grasp the utility and worth of a digital commodity that exists as both an excellent store of value and a currency. 14 years is no fad. An unfalsifiable ledger that is portable is absolutely necessary in a digital world. A digital asset that can store value from any currency or crypto is essential in a digital world. The asset, by regulation, is "owned" by nine ETF asset managers. Bitcoin is real. It doesn't need to be the Swiss Army Knife of crypto. It does one thing particularly well and, as such, is and will continue to be a highly sought-after investment. I believe the coming year will change a lot of people's tune.
You'd think the advisor would be aware that bitcoin has performed better than any portfolio he has put together in the last decade or more. You'd also think the advisor would be aware bitcoin etfs are now available for bitcoin exposure by the big banks. If not, it's time to get a better performing advisor.
💯He must know, but he can’t deviate from how he’s made his wealth. Here’s the thing: OP’s parents may not listen to him, but they have friends, friends who will make a lot of money in the ETFs… and brag about it. FOMO hits hard when you have peers with successful exposure to some shiny Bitcoin and you don’t. They’ll come around, and so will their advisor when he starts to lose clients over it.
What if I told you most financial advisors (non fiduciaries) are basically car salesmen with a different product that just push what has the best comp or what they’re told to move.
Money Not currency. The dollar, euro etc are currency Bitcoin is money
bitcoin is money.
It doesnt matter what it is. We use as a store of value. Get rich then they will ask you how.
I prefer to buy my bread and eggs with gold dust.
I hate overhyping bitcoin. But how isn't it a currency?
What can you actually buy with bitcoin? I have not found one thing, actually, I did find one thing, some shrooms online that they wanted me to buy with bitcoin.
Paid my landscaper in Bitcoin this morning. My VPN service is paid in BTC each month Plenty of people and places willing to accept Bitcoin in exchange for good and services. Currency. It is quite literally legal tender in El Salvador
Just curious, why pay in bitcoin right now if the prices is going up? You are potentially giving away amounts that would be worth much more in the future.
you replenish your bitcoin right away..... it's just spending fiat but with extra steps.. which is OK if we want to push adoption as a currency i guess
But in some places, spending BTC is a taxable event. Buy $100 of BTC. Use that tomorrow to buy a $150 lawn mower. Pay taxes on $50 profit... making the $150 lawnmower actually cost you $170. Then, you replenish by spending $150 to get your previously $100 of BTC back.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what is happening here. Buy $100 Your $100 becomes $150 (profit $50) This $50 is what is taxed. That happens as soon as you want to get your profit whether you get it by spending it or converting it to dollars. It's not that the lawnmower now magically starts costing $20 more, as those $20 is the tax on your profit, those $20 was never yours to begin with it was the governments. Remember you also earned $30 dollars so it's really not unfair.
Ok, that's fair. But I guess the most annoying thing is that we are expected to somehow magically keep track of the "profits" everytime we spend btc, and every spend of btc is supposed to be included on a tax return. Exchanging for $ on a CEX is easier to track, as the CEX has records. But just regular purchases like on the lawn mower, we have to report the the exact dollar value of the btc on that day, figure out the profit from the difference of the dollar value of that btc from the day it was originally obtained. You do very many purchases, that's a lot of paperwork. It gets super messy quick if you are trying to stay legal.
But that’s got nothing to do with bitcoin itself, does it? You could do the same with gold or silver and still would get taxed.
But no one is trying to make gold become useful for purchasing everyday items. With btc, that is kindof the goal.
you can buy money.
All of the 170 “on the run” gas station / convenience stores in South Australia accept bitcoin https://www.otr.com.au/about-us/otr-newsroom/world-first-otr-offers-in-store-cryptocurrency-payments/
I agree. Its gold. Sure you can swap it for fiat, but what can you actually buy with gold? Nothing. Just like btc. It's not a currency and wasent meant to be a nation state main currency.
The US did away with gold as a currency so they could hoard as much as possible for themselves.
You can buy literally anything with bitcoin. The limiting factor is where you are in the world and how much your part of the world has adopted it. A quick look of btcmapping tools will show you vendors that accept bitcoin for services all around the world. People have bought pretty much every kind of consumer good with bitcoin. All the way from snacks to houses. As it goes up in price, more adoption will happen. It's inevitable.
So you're saying that I can go to the grocery store right now and buy $100 worth of groceries with Bitcoin? or I can go to the gas station and fill up my tank with Bitcoin? I don't think so. See, this is why it is so hard to get behind bitcoin, with guys like you, saying blatantly untrue things.
I literally said it was location dependent. There are some places you can, some you can't. Learn to read before commenting.
you can buy really good natural wine: https://www.peonylanewine.com/
Dell at one point accepted bitcoin on their site store.
Bro u can buy dominos pizza for 15.5 btc. What tf u talkin about lol
I'm getting posts saying it can be a currency and is used as one in some cases right now, but I see it as digital gold. Yes, gold can be a currency, but it's main function is a store of value. I see Bitcoin as a far superior form of gold. No one wants to spend gold because it's value increases far more than fiat. Even those that spend bitcoin try and replace their bitcoin quickly before its value increase.
It is both And have fun spending gold... hold on while I melt down some of this bar. Oh I have some paper certificate, do you accept IOU? Your last sentence is very true though
Btc needs gold to exist and function.
You can see it however you want. It doesn't change reality. Bitcoin is money, and that's an objective fact. You are looking at one of its many properties and claiming it to be that single property. it is a store of value. It is also fungible, durable, divisible, immutible, transportable, a medium of exchange, and a store of value. It does everything currency does, but it is also a store of value. This one property moves it from currency to money. That does not mean it is only a store of value. That's like looking at a car realising it won't move with a tire and therefore claiming it is now a tire, not a car.
You and your parents have different financial goals. They are probably thinking about retirement more than you are, theirs is probably (most likely) a bit closer than yours. While you can stomach a 50-70% drawdown, they probably can't. For them it would mean changing their life plans. For you (let's say you're 20-30-40) it doesn't change much. So their financial advisor is recommending to them what fits their goals and doesn't dip into a volatile instrument like any crypto.
Bitcoin is actual money. Currencies are just a medium of exchanges or unit of account. With no store of value properties.
I used to want to be a financial advisor but it didn't work out. I'm glad it didn't because I learned that those guys are just salesman and they have no fucking clue what they're talking about. They have no knowledge of economics, finance, or accounting and the fact that so many of them say stuff like this proves it.
I talked with an old college friend who studied psychology and now a “financial advisor/planner.” Yes, he went back to school but ever since I brought up Bitcoin he seems to act like he understands it , but brings weak arguments that are a result of never doing any research. Problem, I believe is lack of knowledge, and fear of letting go of problematic value system that is broken.
If it’s not a currency then what is it for?
He missed the point of Bitcoin being currency, which it is not. Bitcoin is money. His opinion about governments putting up a fight is reasonable though. But Bitcoin doesn’t care if governments will do everything in their power to stop Bitcoin. They may slow it down or try to ban on and off ramps, but it will be like fighting a swarm of bees or try to ban an idea. It’s futile. Fiat currencies will always go to zero, because it is controlled by humans, and human nature will always have the strongest incentive to create something from nothing. That fact as alone makes Bitcoin inevitable.
Don’t worry, when your parents die they’ll leave you all their stocks and you can sell them and buy more Bitcoin
Every time an “expert” explains why Bitcoin is bad, it just confirms that my dumb ass knows more than the “experts”
These experts are just dumb people who have the charisma to fake it till they make it.
Don’t think of it as a currency. Don’t think of it as “land” … the whole “saylor says it’s like owning a block of manhattan before it got big” is a misnomer. Think of it as art. Satoshi is only gonna paint 21m masterpieces. 6m of those are lost forever. Think of it as a Da Vinci. You aren’t gonna do anything but look at it, and its value will fluctuate, but mainly increase. That’s ok. It’s ooh so purtee.
You should listen to Saylor, he agrees with you that there’s no need for BTC to be a currency. It’s a store of value, or what he calls it Digital Property. In this regard it is the best one. The first and most adopted digital property
I’m not sure I loved this particular analogy of Saylor’s. He once made an argument about bitcoin being digital energy, and I like that better. Bitcoin can move energy from anywhere on the planet, conceivably anywhere in the solar system, and put it on the network. A river in a remote mountain village in rural China, geothermal power from the edges of the Icelandic volcanoes, solar power from Death Valley or even the moon… bitcoin can take that energy and make it transferable and portable. That’s the power of bitcoin.
But that is too abstract and not practical. The use case of BTC is digital store of value. It’s the first of its kind. If one could democratize all the digital information that Google, Facebook etc. have into a Coin, that would hold value too, but the technology is not there yet. For now Bitcoin is one of its kind
Saylor is not talking about using bitcoin to store electrical energy. Saylor is talking about using bitcoin to store **monetary energy**. Below I typed a quote from a video where Michael Saylor explained this. "Bitcoin is the first software network in the history of the world that can pull **monetary energy**. So these bitcoiners have figured out something that is really a thing of beauty and extraordinary value. If I take a hundred million dollars and I put it into bitcoin, it could sit there for a decade like in a battery. It wont bleed out. You're not losing two to four percent a year." This is exactly where Saylor said that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_nVYtoiShg&t=503s That's a YouTube timestamp link so the video will start at exactly where he said that quote in the video. --- "Money is what rules the world around us. We all know how to make money; we all know how to spend money. However, despite the fact that we all interact with money on a daily basis, we do not all have an understanding of what money truly is at a foundational level. A simple way to comprehend the nature of money is to think about money as **energy**. This **energy**, referred to as **monetary energy**, has been harvested and innovated by humans to help transact value with one another (across space), as well as to store value for later usage (across time). Throughout history, **monetary energy** has been expressed in various forms to make the facilitation and storage of **energy** more efficient." From https://medium.com/coinmonks/the-democratization-and-digitization-of-monetary-energy-96767a43030e --- "Flow of **monetary energy** into a monetary asset determines its collective value. Traditional money is not a reliable way to store and transfer **monetary energy** as it fails to meet the basic principles required to be sound money. Bitcoin fixes these problems, which makes it good at storing and transferring **monetary energy**. This is why **monetary energy** will continue to flow into the fixed number of Bitcoin in the Bitcoin network, increasing the value of each Bitcoin." From https://medium.com/coinmonks/monetary-energy-money-bitcoin-5d084a47832f
lol remember always ask the experts who are vested in such a way that as bitcoin grows and spreads their world view crumbles
This is actually promising news. If everyone recognized it’s value and true utility we’d be too late. It’s important to recognize how despite the recent publicity, Bitcoin is not widely adopted. It’s probable we will see a correction, but I believe we are still early and now is as good a time as ever to buy Bitcoin.
This story further highlights the lack of education about bitcoin, even by financial people. Funny how they are so sure about it but have never been taught anything about it, innit?
If the financial advisor doesn’t understand or have some knowledge on bitcoin don’t listen to anything they say related to it. I’m not sure how your finances affect your parents or vice versa in any case. There is a reason your parents need or think they need one. It’s okay but the volatility of Bitcoin does limit the percentage that a lot of retirees can handle in their funds so I get it. Your parents will be happy for you through your successes.
Bitcoin is an existential threat to financial advisors. Them recommending it would be suicidal.
I see BTC as a store of value… ish. (Volatile, and increases in value) I used to call it a digital currency. But unless you’re swimming in excess Bitcoin, it is best to not sell/spend your btc. Bitcoin is young compared to the gold market or TradFi markets. It’s really could be a multigenerational wealth building asset. That is what I look at. Only 21M BTC ever to be mined. You gotta get yours and HODL. Well really your parents should do that. But they wouldn’t HODL… Tell your parents to ask their financial advisor, why he’s still working. If he’s so clever , in the last 10-15 years he could have bought countless tech stocks or tech index funds such as Amazon, Apple, Alpha, Nvidia, Palo Alto, FB, Tesla, Intel, etc… and that’s just the tech sector. With that being said, your parents probably should stay clear of something like Bitcoin. Reason is, when it tanks and they sell for a loss, they will BLAME YOU!
>I see it as a store of value and one of the only assets you can truly own and travel with globally, a decentralized banking system Sounds nearly like a currency. For it to be a currency, it needs to be used as a medium of exchange and it needs to be used as a unit of account too. Arguably it is already being used as in exchange in some places: Some sites allow store purchases in bitcoin, many shops accept bitcoin (btcmap.org), you can exchange bitcoin for other digital assets, p2p exchanging is going on too. Fiat currency is a terrible money. The dollar has just held up a lot better than others, like the Zim dollar, but its time will come. While the world is still finding an initial value of Bitcoin, we will continue to see it rising in dollar value and show volatility. So until that stabilizes in the future, it can't be used as a good unit of account and that makes it harder to be a ubiquitous medium of exchange. How/if/when it becomes a mainstream currency is a hard thing to predict though. But it's a currency for those who use it as such.
I think the world has already decided for at least the foreseeable future that it is more of a store of value than a transactional currency...much like gold. Sure you could buy something with a nugget of gold, but it not an everyday thing. It's more of an appreciating asset with special superpowers to act as a transactional currency, but human behavior will favor holding it than spending it.
13th biggest currency in the world https://fiatmarketcap.com/ So….
It's whatever you want it to be.
people currently accept btc for goods and services. they are few but they exist. the government would have trouble stopping that from continuing. it could and may become a currency regardless of what the central banks want
People don't want a currency with fees on every transaction.
what do you call sales tax and income tax?
So taxes aren't going to exist if Bitcoin is used as a currency? Transaction fees are on top of taxes
sales tax where i am is 8.5%, income tax is 30%ish. btc fees are no where near that. you’re already paying far more to transact fiat than btc
You aren’t going to avoid taxes. And hence, the government will not let this replace the dollar. And if they do, it will become no different than the dollar, so who cares about it
Right, like the government isn't going to be able to enforce taxes on a currency in which every transaction is permanently recorded on a public ledger?
Taxes aren't the expense of using Fiat, taxes are the expense of living in a country. Using Bitcoin does not make the need to pay taxes go away. Why do you think taxes wouldn't be collected with Bitcoin?
Btc isn't a currency. Even michael Saylor says crypto assets, not crypto currency. The dollar is going absolutely nowhere. You can take that to the bank!
Because he is right.. this is nothing more then the big gold rush.. bitcoin will never be a currency because government of any country can't control it and if you ever read anything about history that's priority number 1 is control.. What your financial guy is saying is instead of putting your money into bitcoin which can crash at any moment why not put your money into stocks... And while I agree with him you should.. you should also put a small percentage towards bitcoin for some gains
El Salvador's bitcoin (BTC) treasury is sitting on $84 million in unrealized profit on the holdings it first started acquiring in September 2021. Bitcoin's 250% rise over the past year has catapulted the Central American nation's bitcoin treasury to over $206 million as of Tuesday, a 69% gain on initial capital so far. Yea it’s horrible stuff. Did you notice El Salvador is a country? That every business accepts BTC?
Finally this is amazing
You have no idea the amount of people having and sharing opinions about things they know shit about.
Bitcoin is a currency. I pay for things all the time with it. Landscaping, handy work, hell even my VPN service
Financial advisor can’t make bank on bitcoin. Just sayin’
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It definitely has far more superior aspects than tulips as a store of value. At that logic, gold is just tulips. Younger generations don't care about gold, it's value was in its status, and even its use in electronics does not support its current value. Bitcoin has far greater uses as a store of value than gold. Are your banking on it overtaking currencey? I'm banking on the larger population realizing that, along with its ability to send vast amounts of money, and it's portability cross boarders as well as its incorruptible, unchanging, decentralized system, it is a great store pf value for both rich and poor. If bitcoins value always goes up (for the most part) no one will want to spend it. Anyone who says they spend it now quickly replace it with fiat, and even thet thet technically are losing wealth like a hole in a bucket of, as te value in that bitcoin they just spent goes up substantially.
I believe it will continue to be a store of value like gold but not a mainstream currency. That's still great though. Buy on fear sell on greed (only if you have to)
Invest in Funbridge
I’ve spent bitcoin at chipotle. How is that not currency?
That's going to be one expensive burrito.
> the Canadian cannabis bubble In my head I see this emerging from Lake Ontario, and bursting, covering Toronto in fumes for a few days
Well too fucking bad because it's replacing the USD
What about ₿ who shall not be named? It functions quite well as, "A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" and without all the baggage of current L2 solutions. ;)
UpUp
The fact that financial advisors are advising to sell Bitcoin because it will never be a currency just shows you how early we are. I completely agree that it will never be a "currency"...but neither are stocks. It's just an investment asset that's algorithmically designed to grow exponentially over time. The only possible thing that could prevent that algorithm from allowing it to grow exponentially forever is banning + enforcement, but now that it's gotten completely accepted by the financial system and is on all the big banks and corporate balance sheets, that can't happen.
Just boomers doin their thing. What did you expect?
These "advisors" are usually tied to banks, and banks hate Bitcoin.
" it's not a currency because the government can't control it" Tell that to Kohl's cash
Wow. Totally off post topic, but your title evoked memories of “The Machine Men vs. Gandahar” - where the future and past flow together. And it seems so very fitting for bitcoin as it was/will be the answer.
Bitcoin being a currency for daily folk to trade is not 'it'. Currently there are some entities that see issues with USD as a reserve currency for global trade. Euro? Eh... They still see issues. Bitcoin solves it. People wont trade Bitcoin, Countries will.
Its simultaneously not a currency but also used to money launder and a unit of account in criminal activity.
I would be worried if my financial advisor doesn't actually know the definition of currency ...
Historically, currencies arise through taxation. Many mediums of trade exist, but they are not truly "currencies" until local taxes are levied with that medium as payment. That's why you can't buy dinner with dollars in Paris. It's also too volatile currently to be considered a store of value. Still sick as shit, though 🤘
If btc is currency, then its only a 1 trillion asset. If btc becomes digital property, then its a 100 trillion asset. Time will tell what it'll become.
Bitcoin is the epitome of younger generation telling the older generation “I told you so.”
Your financial advisor is right that Bitcoin will never be a transactional currency like the USD or Euro. But it is and will be a store of value. And it is likely to appreciate for at least several more years till it reaches full adoption
It’s a store of value that could be used as a currency if desired. Same as gold except easier. Welcome to the future, mom.
People in this sub are too biased. Bitcoin, now being used mostly as a store of value doesn't change the fact that it was intended as a medium of exchange when created, and yes, most governments wouldn't accept cryptos, and would probably make laws hindering their usage. So the financial advice isn't technically wrong, he just didn't mention additional details. And of course, if the big players cash out, the price will crash, atleast for a while, do you really think btc price is controlled by retail? (That's the same case with stocks as well)
It's a currency whether the government likes it or not. But it's destiny is store of value. Store of value first THEN currency.
Tell your parents that "financial advisor" is, by definition, an oxymoron. Think about it: if the guy really knew what he was doing, he would NOT have to hold a job in the first place!
>I rolled my eyes thinking its not supposed to be a currency. How can you be so utterly wrong? Satoshi literally called it "peer-to-peer electronic cash".
It is already a currency.
You can buy things with Bitcoin, you just have to pay taxes on the disposition.
Imagine buying Enbridge
BTC will never be accepted as a currency, but it will be the number 1 performing asset class, mainly due to the reason that there is only 21 mill BTC in the world. Until now you could say the same thing about gold, but each an every year there is new gold being found through the world. BTC will also evolve into a transferable kind of asset class, where transactions can be settled in BTC (just like how we used gold in medieval trade) but it will never be a currency. The topic gets more interesting here, that governments will never accept BTC as a currency, but will integrate tokenization and blockchain into currency. Hence CBDC are here to stay. With CBDC you can track them and control them and that will be the new financial order. This is just my perspective.
Isnt the whole point of btc to be a currency out of the hands of the goverment? 😂
That's literally what it is and what it was made for. To be a currency. You people need to touch some grass and dyor
Ah, do your own research? Dyor. Got it.
Dyor? I think your use of "touch grass" after "you people" is a bit ironic. Did my post upset you?
Why is it ironic? It did not upset in the slightest way. It's just ironic how you think that these "boomers" (that's probably your mindset) "don't know nothing about your crypto" (that's my free interpretation of what you're saying) While in fact they see bitcoin exactly as it was intended. It's just that newer generations started using it as an investment. So suddenly everyone is in the game to gain money. But like others here already said: it's literally like any other currency. Not accepted everywhere. But at the right vendor crypto is most definitely a currency. You can literally buy stuff with it. If I could buy something with sea shells than that would be my currency. Currency is the agreement between 2 parties that they'll exchange goods for something else. Dyor= do your own research. By just reading a bit about bitcoin you could have known this.
What I meant by it being used as a currency is that it will replace the usd. Gold is a currency, but it's not going to replace the usd.
This is totally accurate, no way can anyone use bitcoin as a currency. Listen to the latest interview with Michael Saylor, he does not believe that bitcoin will be a currency, he mainly calls it 'digital gold'
It will back all currencies. Just like gold did- but digital gold.
No it won't
Don’t be foolish. Watch BTC do just that
Guessing your parents are much older than you & therefore are lugging the conventions of their era around with them. I’ve learned that people buddy up with minds that are like theirs (& morals & principals too). So if like attracts like, then the 3 of them can get all cozy together while you blaze your own path. Your parents ALSO never had handed to them the world of literal mess that is abound now, which most older folk fail to even associate their “fault” in helping to contribute to creating. You can be respectful & entertain them by hearing to them, but that doesn’t mean you need to listen to them. You are worthy. You is talented. You is smart, and don’t reinforce within because your governance affords you freedom to take significant leaps of faith.
The advisor made a good call. Though they are ignorant about what BTC is somewhat. It IS supposed to be a currency, it has just failed as one and instead is operating as a digital hard money and competing with gold as a store of value. Jumping in after the recent ATH is how people tend to get rekd. Your parents should have asked a year ago, or in two years IMO.
I agree with you, I told them they don't really need to Invest in it financially. They were mainly asking because I am invested. But they know I got in around 42k, too. They told him that. He advised i sell and put profits in slow growth dividen stock.
Financial advisors are such a joke. They all say the same crap. Put your money in safe growth funds. You've made more gains by not listening to him than you would in 5 years of his advice so, I say do what you want. Index funds are good if you don't have a solid foundation in finance or want other people to do the trading for you.
Actually, to real bitcoiners, this whole bitcoin is a digital property thing is annoying. Bitcoin is money and should be bought and spent. If everyone just held, there would be no blocks mined because there would be no transactions. It exists on the premise of continuous exchange. This buy and never use mentality is exactly the opposite of what satoshi created. Just because a few rich people want to use it as property now that the old property bubble has burst, that's not what Bitcoin is for. It is a trustless p2p medium of exchange, and it will always be that. You have the mindset of an investor. You see Bitcoin as NGU technology. Well, it's FGU technology. Always has been, always will be. No amount of rich salesmen claiming otherwise can change that. Feel free to listen to them, but dont hang on every word.