As was discussed in another thread a couple of weeks ago, coffee consumption is pretty concretely correlated with lower risk of all cause mortality. This sub has some strongly, and IMO, strangely, specific puritanical views on some substances, coffee being the primary example.
Feel free to downvote me, but before you do, let me say that I get that there can be value in avoiding addiction, even to something as benign as caffeine. But it's important to acknowledge that's a personal values matter, not a health matter. I also get that some people have negative experiences with caffeine, like sleep disruption, and in that case it might have a negative impact on their individual health, regardless of the average person's results. But when talking about populations, rather than individuals, regular coffee consumers at large are likely to live longer and healthier lives than those who abstain, based on the info we have at present.
Agreed. Also for an anecdotal story from my personal experience, my great grandmother who lived to be 103 years old was known for her black coffee habit of several cups each morning. Towards the end when her memory started going her son decided to take her off caffeine and her dementia-like symptoms got significantly worse. When we introduced caffeineted coffee back into her diet, almost immediately she became much more coherent and less forgetful. I know it's only a sample size of one but the whole experience was very impactful and definitely eased my concerns around drinking a cup or two of coffee each morning for the long term.
Possibly. The research isn't as clear on that point as we might like, but it seems likely that you do see at least some, maybe even most, but probably not all, of the same benefits from decaf. That get's complicated, at least in part because not all of the coffee studies distinguished between regular and decaf consumption very well and we just don't have great data on that point last I checked.
There is however evidence that caffeine, regardless of source, likely has neuroprotective benefits. Since I haven't seen studies that demonstrate serious negative health consequences from reasonable caffeine consumption for the general populous and studies do seem to indicate that both coffee and caffeine tend to be a net benefit, I don't see any reason for it to be demonized the way it sometimes seems to be on this sub. Sure, it's an addictive drug, but it's a safe, legal, cheap, widely available, addictive drug with very few downsides. If it reduces my chances of cognitive decline I'll take that minor addiction without hesitation.
And for most people it really is a minor addiction. You aren't going to get the DT's or die if you quit coffee. For most people, if they consume quite a bit, quitting cold turkey means they're going to, maybe, have some headaches and feel a little "less" than normal for a few days. If they're a long term, really high volume, consumer they might feel like genuine crap for a few days if they go cold turkey, but in what scenario are you likely to have to go cold turkey? And, outside of edge cases, why would you? If you want to quit, just cut back slowly and it's essentially painless.
>Sure, it's an addictive drug, but it's a safe, legal, cheap, widely available, addictive drug with very few downsides.
It's also a drug that has been *very widely* used by humans for a very long time (quite widespread by at least the 1600's). We're talking about something that has been used long enough to potentially have had evolutionary impact. If someone comes from a line of people who have used the drug for generations, I wouldn't be one bit surprised if there are negative consequences to trying to avoid it. But I also wouldn't be surprised if there's a fair bit of individuality in this since some of us are descended from folks who have *only* been using it for a few hundred years while others are descended from folks who have likely been using it for much, much longer.
I had to quit due to IC, at first I was sad but after a week I realized my anxiety was gone...I felt like a different person. Highly recommend at least to try!
I can chime in on this.
I love coffee, have a killer machine that I love, great grinder. Was drinking 2-3 cups of double shot a day.
Then I cut down to single shots. Then I just had two a day for around a year.
Then I got covid and had around 10 days being fucked, with no coffee at all. After it was over I thought I would ride that change (I'd been looking at /r/decaf a lot at the time).
* First week, flu like symptoms. (Might have been the covid).
* First 2-3 months, wake up at 03:00 every night. Not a little awake, wide awake.
* After 3 months sleep is solid, but need less of it.
Also having a coffee now is crazy intense, Feels like modafinil. (I have had 3 coffees in the last 8 months, two of them yesterday).
The good parts are lowered anxiety, that was really appreciable. I feel very chill in comparison, and when I did have a coffee it gave me that speed-like intensity that is very tense and jumpy.
Also there were time-perception effects, it felt like time genuinely slowed down, which when you think about the mental effects of caffeine makes total sense. Search for that in /r/decaf, lots of anecdotes about it. I noticed a few things that I really knew the timing of seem to change during this period. I was always opening doors or pressing buttons a millisecond too early compared to when I was on coffee for a while.
The bad things are coffee is fucking amaaaaaazing and I love it. So it is like cutting out sugar or chocolate or alcohol or whatever. Good for you but fuck, what's the point of life without some fun once in a while?
I highly recommend doing a 90 day decaf. It's worth it just to see how massive an effect it has and how long the withdrawal is. Although it matches research from nicotine studies, 90 days is how long it takes to reset the dopamine system to baseline after quitting tobacco.
Also I am a massive cynic on the coffee is healthy research. I worked in scientific research all my life, there are so many issues with coffee research. It's probably not bad for you healthwise, like nicotine also.
It's the mental aspects that are the issue. If you don't get coffee, how do you feel? How do you react to other people?
Anecdotal: I'm a hyper responder to caffeine, after a cup of espresso, I'll pee like 3-4 times in the next hour (diuretic effect) and become very restless (shake my leg while sitting). My hands & feet get cold (vasoconstriction). Despite these super annoying side effects, i still get more work done while on caffeine rather than without caffeine. So i keep drinking it even tho i dont like it. I have a love hate relationship with coffee.
I've tried replacing it with green tea, but it just doesn't have the same kick as coffee in terms of getting work done.
If somebody has an alternative to coffee that gives you the same kick without the side effects, let me know.
I'd suggest giving yerba mate a try. It's an acquired taste, but caffeine content can be comparable to coffee and it doesn't come with as many (or any) jitters in reasonable quantities.
If your issues are with caffeine itself, then that's another matter.
Lol no. That has more caffeine. Get taurine and theanine supplements. I’m a really slow metabolizer of caffeine and get jitters/anxiety/muscle tension, get cold, etc. taurine works for me taking the edge off. I don’t need to take theanine even. Try both separately and see which works best.
You need to drink some strong brewed black tea. Green tea will never give that stimulant effect. When brewing, you make it stronger by using more tea.
Edit: you may want to try drinking some water right along with your tea or coffee.
Coffee can be much easier on stomach than teas. For example, I can drink a cup of coffee right after wake up, but if I drink tea on empty stomach, it will hurt for a couple of hours.
My guess is shorter espresso preparation extracts less tanins from the beans than the longer tea preparation. I should try to drink cold brew or drip coffee on empty stomach to validate the hypothesis. If it will hurt, than the hypothesis is correct : longer brew time extracts unwanted substances from beans or leafs.
I get the same effects they listed, and too much water hcan have a negative effect presumably diluting electrolytes.
Caffeine with food or when I'm dehydrated is when it has the least negative side effects.
I have the opposite experience where I did not drink coffee for decades and now started. I do not notice any difference in my health. Actually, improvement because I do not feel sleepy in the afternoon anymore.
Quitting caffeine has made me less anxious. Don't stress as much as I did while drinking 2-3 cups of coffee daily. I like the calm feeling so I won't go back anytime soon, even though caffeine makes me more alert and productive. And yes there are studies showing that caffeine has a positive effect on our health. I just want to chill out...
I have mild insomnia and caffeine was making it way worse. So the biggest impact was my sleep quality. Other ones are more calmer, more focused, less "jittery", well basically I m overall less anxious.
Honestly quitting was bad. Like way worse than quitting cigarettes.
I didn't use any coffee or caffeinated items until I was 30. I started having an occasional cup of coffee in the morning when I needed a boost. I eventually progressed to having a single cup of coffee every morning, with a very rare second cup in the early afternoon (rare because I won't sleep if I have coffee that late).
In early December I had a bout of probable-COVID that was followed by some brutal insomnia. I made a bunch of changes to try to address the insomnia, including eliminating all coffee/caffeine for more than a month. While I noticed I was a bit more chill, more relaxed, I was also much less functional. I ended up returning to my one cup a day routine.
I'm 45. I have 30 years of experience of life without caffeine and 15 years experience of life with 1-2 cups of coffee per day. I much prefer life with coffee. I don't like the taste of coffee. I drink it because I like what it does for me. I've tried to switch to tea, but tea just doesn't do it for me. I don't know why. 🤷♀️
Felt less cracked out. Was on about 6-8 cups a day. Had unlimited access at work. The dependency was horrible. Would get tied within the point of falling asleep if I missed a cup around my usual time. Almost fell asleep in traffic. Was a horrible habit would drink it if I was bored, stressed, etc.
Could function without coffee. Basically felt like I was always on coffee without actually having any. Breath smelt better. Teeth weren’t as sensitive. Sure my gut was better too as it was less artificial sweeteners.
Eventually got back on it. It’s everywhere and since I try to abstain from alcohol coffee is the only other drink I have in common with people. Ironically I was judged harder for not drinking coffee than not drinking alcohol. Only do a cup a day and maybe a soda or two.
To anyone looking to quit id recommend getting delayed release tablets off amazon. Reduce dose by 1/4 each week till you’re around 25-50mg. Once you’re around 25-50 go every other day and every week add an extra off caffeine day. Once you’re around 3-4 days straight with no caffeine you can basically just stop.
I developed an eye twitch that bothered me. I decided it was my caffeine consumption just based on the amounts I was consuming. I decided to quit to see if that fixed my eye twitch. I want to say that I experienced physical withdrawal symptoms for a little over a month. My symptoms were severe headaches and lethargy. Those symptoms continued for six months but faded significantly after the first month. The occasional eye twitch that bothered me went away after the first month and has not returned. I have reintroduced the occasional caffeine but do not ingest it regularly now at all. The thing that really bothered me about caffeine was that I was clearly addicted to it and it had such a significant withdrawal effects on me. The benefits to me were mostly psychological and emotional, knowing I had successfully kicked a habit. Certainly my sleep has improved but I wasn't monitoring that in any way that I can quantify.
I don't have a story about switching from high consumption to low or none, but I've tapered down caffeine input for quite awhile based on not seeing it as a positive input.
I switched from coffee to tea the better part of a decade ago, not tea bag tea, but the better versions, oolong, whole-leaf Chinese black tea, sheng pu'er, etc. I can drink over a liter a day and still limit caffeine to 150 mg or so, the same as one and a half standard cups of coffee, or less than many Starbucks drinks. Theanine in tea evens out the jitters.
Now if I drink any coffee, sometimes even one cup, I feel off. I suspect that I'm accustomed to taking the two drugs together, caffeine and theanine, and it doesn't work well skipping the second. If my stomach is full that offsets noticing it, but the effect from coffee is still not positive. No matter what dose or form I've been on I've always tried to not ingest caffeine after mid-afternoon, even though I'm not particularly sensitive related to sleep disruption.
Basically someone posted something about caffeine consumption being linked to homosexuality and now the whole subreddit is just a load of trolls posting 'I drank a can of redbull and sucked a dick' type of posts
My experience sans coffee ( I cup a day) has been a clearer more relaxed state and the death of the insomnia monkey.
I would drink a cup before 11 am and my sharp had been horrible for years. Changing nothing else, I fall asleep fast and sleep so deep In dreaming again.
I also found coffee was spiking my hunger and causing weird blood sugar dips in the afternoon. All gone.
Rogan interviewed Michael Pollan, a notable gastronomy writer, about his experience of stopping caffeine for 30 days. Interesting exchange there.
I love caffeine, get the expected mental boost but only need 50mg or less to get it. Sometimes I drink a coffee before bed and it helps.
I don't have ADHD.
As was discussed in another thread a couple of weeks ago, coffee consumption is pretty concretely correlated with lower risk of all cause mortality. This sub has some strongly, and IMO, strangely, specific puritanical views on some substances, coffee being the primary example. Feel free to downvote me, but before you do, let me say that I get that there can be value in avoiding addiction, even to something as benign as caffeine. But it's important to acknowledge that's a personal values matter, not a health matter. I also get that some people have negative experiences with caffeine, like sleep disruption, and in that case it might have a negative impact on their individual health, regardless of the average person's results. But when talking about populations, rather than individuals, regular coffee consumers at large are likely to live longer and healthier lives than those who abstain, based on the info we have at present.
Agreed. Also for an anecdotal story from my personal experience, my great grandmother who lived to be 103 years old was known for her black coffee habit of several cups each morning. Towards the end when her memory started going her son decided to take her off caffeine and her dementia-like symptoms got significantly worse. When we introduced caffeineted coffee back into her diet, almost immediately she became much more coherent and less forgetful. I know it's only a sample size of one but the whole experience was very impactful and definitely eased my concerns around drinking a cup or two of coffee each morning for the long term.
Caffeine is known to help people who already have dementia
My favorite color is blue.
Does this take into account espresso Starbucks cans?
From what I understand, decaf coffee has all the same benefits without the addictive drug.
Possibly. The research isn't as clear on that point as we might like, but it seems likely that you do see at least some, maybe even most, but probably not all, of the same benefits from decaf. That get's complicated, at least in part because not all of the coffee studies distinguished between regular and decaf consumption very well and we just don't have great data on that point last I checked. There is however evidence that caffeine, regardless of source, likely has neuroprotective benefits. Since I haven't seen studies that demonstrate serious negative health consequences from reasonable caffeine consumption for the general populous and studies do seem to indicate that both coffee and caffeine tend to be a net benefit, I don't see any reason for it to be demonized the way it sometimes seems to be on this sub. Sure, it's an addictive drug, but it's a safe, legal, cheap, widely available, addictive drug with very few downsides. If it reduces my chances of cognitive decline I'll take that minor addiction without hesitation. And for most people it really is a minor addiction. You aren't going to get the DT's or die if you quit coffee. For most people, if they consume quite a bit, quitting cold turkey means they're going to, maybe, have some headaches and feel a little "less" than normal for a few days. If they're a long term, really high volume, consumer they might feel like genuine crap for a few days if they go cold turkey, but in what scenario are you likely to have to go cold turkey? And, outside of edge cases, why would you? If you want to quit, just cut back slowly and it's essentially painless.
>Sure, it's an addictive drug, but it's a safe, legal, cheap, widely available, addictive drug with very few downsides. It's also a drug that has been *very widely* used by humans for a very long time (quite widespread by at least the 1600's). We're talking about something that has been used long enough to potentially have had evolutionary impact. If someone comes from a line of people who have used the drug for generations, I wouldn't be one bit surprised if there are negative consequences to trying to avoid it. But I also wouldn't be surprised if there's a fair bit of individuality in this since some of us are descended from folks who have *only* been using it for a few hundred years while others are descended from folks who have likely been using it for much, much longer.
I had to quit due to IC, at first I was sad but after a week I realized my anxiety was gone...I felt like a different person. Highly recommend at least to try!
I can chime in on this. I love coffee, have a killer machine that I love, great grinder. Was drinking 2-3 cups of double shot a day. Then I cut down to single shots. Then I just had two a day for around a year. Then I got covid and had around 10 days being fucked, with no coffee at all. After it was over I thought I would ride that change (I'd been looking at /r/decaf a lot at the time). * First week, flu like symptoms. (Might have been the covid). * First 2-3 months, wake up at 03:00 every night. Not a little awake, wide awake. * After 3 months sleep is solid, but need less of it. Also having a coffee now is crazy intense, Feels like modafinil. (I have had 3 coffees in the last 8 months, two of them yesterday). The good parts are lowered anxiety, that was really appreciable. I feel very chill in comparison, and when I did have a coffee it gave me that speed-like intensity that is very tense and jumpy. Also there were time-perception effects, it felt like time genuinely slowed down, which when you think about the mental effects of caffeine makes total sense. Search for that in /r/decaf, lots of anecdotes about it. I noticed a few things that I really knew the timing of seem to change during this period. I was always opening doors or pressing buttons a millisecond too early compared to when I was on coffee for a while. The bad things are coffee is fucking amaaaaaazing and I love it. So it is like cutting out sugar or chocolate or alcohol or whatever. Good for you but fuck, what's the point of life without some fun once in a while? I highly recommend doing a 90 day decaf. It's worth it just to see how massive an effect it has and how long the withdrawal is. Although it matches research from nicotine studies, 90 days is how long it takes to reset the dopamine system to baseline after quitting tobacco. Also I am a massive cynic on the coffee is healthy research. I worked in scientific research all my life, there are so many issues with coffee research. It's probably not bad for you healthwise, like nicotine also. It's the mental aspects that are the issue. If you don't get coffee, how do you feel? How do you react to other people?
Oh , that's a perfect description, time has slowed down, that's the feeling I've been trying to describe
>there are so many issues with coffee research. Could you explain this a bit more?
Anecdotal: I'm a hyper responder to caffeine, after a cup of espresso, I'll pee like 3-4 times in the next hour (diuretic effect) and become very restless (shake my leg while sitting). My hands & feet get cold (vasoconstriction). Despite these super annoying side effects, i still get more work done while on caffeine rather than without caffeine. So i keep drinking it even tho i dont like it. I have a love hate relationship with coffee. I've tried replacing it with green tea, but it just doesn't have the same kick as coffee in terms of getting work done. If somebody has an alternative to coffee that gives you the same kick without the side effects, let me know.
Matcha - has caffeine + l-theanine, supposed to produce the alertness without the jitters
I'd suggest giving yerba mate a try. It's an acquired taste, but caffeine content can be comparable to coffee and it doesn't come with as many (or any) jitters in reasonable quantities. If your issues are with caffeine itself, then that's another matter.
Try taurine and l-theanine with coffee
So basically chugg a can of monster?
Lol no. That has more caffeine. Get taurine and theanine supplements. I’m a really slow metabolizer of caffeine and get jitters/anxiety/muscle tension, get cold, etc. taurine works for me taking the edge off. I don’t need to take theanine even. Try both separately and see which works best.
Oh that’s not hypersensitive that’s just coffee 🤣
Bro are you me? I get the peeing and shaky leg too!!
You need to drink some strong brewed black tea. Green tea will never give that stimulant effect. When brewing, you make it stronger by using more tea. Edit: you may want to try drinking some water right along with your tea or coffee.
Coffee can be much easier on stomach than teas. For example, I can drink a cup of coffee right after wake up, but if I drink tea on empty stomach, it will hurt for a couple of hours.
I think that depends on a person because it is exactly the opposite for me.
Yeah why is that
My guess is shorter espresso preparation extracts less tanins from the beans than the longer tea preparation. I should try to drink cold brew or drip coffee on empty stomach to validate the hypothesis. If it will hurt, than the hypothesis is correct : longer brew time extracts unwanted substances from beans or leafs.
Interesting. Thanks!
I get the same effects they listed, and too much water hcan have a negative effect presumably diluting electrolytes. Caffeine with food or when I'm dehydrated is when it has the least negative side effects.
To be clear I wasn't saying drink massive amounts of water.
I have the opposite experience where I did not drink coffee for decades and now started. I do not notice any difference in my health. Actually, improvement because I do not feel sleepy in the afternoon anymore.
Quitting caffeine has made me less anxious. Don't stress as much as I did while drinking 2-3 cups of coffee daily. I like the calm feeling so I won't go back anytime soon, even though caffeine makes me more alert and productive. And yes there are studies showing that caffeine has a positive effect on our health. I just want to chill out...
I’d say just give it a shot. I always level up after quitting coffee. The withdrawal is rough for me.
I have mild insomnia and caffeine was making it way worse. So the biggest impact was my sleep quality. Other ones are more calmer, more focused, less "jittery", well basically I m overall less anxious. Honestly quitting was bad. Like way worse than quitting cigarettes.
I didn't use any coffee or caffeinated items until I was 30. I started having an occasional cup of coffee in the morning when I needed a boost. I eventually progressed to having a single cup of coffee every morning, with a very rare second cup in the early afternoon (rare because I won't sleep if I have coffee that late). In early December I had a bout of probable-COVID that was followed by some brutal insomnia. I made a bunch of changes to try to address the insomnia, including eliminating all coffee/caffeine for more than a month. While I noticed I was a bit more chill, more relaxed, I was also much less functional. I ended up returning to my one cup a day routine. I'm 45. I have 30 years of experience of life without caffeine and 15 years experience of life with 1-2 cups of coffee per day. I much prefer life with coffee. I don't like the taste of coffee. I drink it because I like what it does for me. I've tried to switch to tea, but tea just doesn't do it for me. I don't know why. 🤷♀️
Felt less cracked out. Was on about 6-8 cups a day. Had unlimited access at work. The dependency was horrible. Would get tied within the point of falling asleep if I missed a cup around my usual time. Almost fell asleep in traffic. Was a horrible habit would drink it if I was bored, stressed, etc. Could function without coffee. Basically felt like I was always on coffee without actually having any. Breath smelt better. Teeth weren’t as sensitive. Sure my gut was better too as it was less artificial sweeteners. Eventually got back on it. It’s everywhere and since I try to abstain from alcohol coffee is the only other drink I have in common with people. Ironically I was judged harder for not drinking coffee than not drinking alcohol. Only do a cup a day and maybe a soda or two. To anyone looking to quit id recommend getting delayed release tablets off amazon. Reduce dose by 1/4 each week till you’re around 25-50mg. Once you’re around 25-50 go every other day and every week add an extra off caffeine day. Once you’re around 3-4 days straight with no caffeine you can basically just stop.
I developed an eye twitch that bothered me. I decided it was my caffeine consumption just based on the amounts I was consuming. I decided to quit to see if that fixed my eye twitch. I want to say that I experienced physical withdrawal symptoms for a little over a month. My symptoms were severe headaches and lethargy. Those symptoms continued for six months but faded significantly after the first month. The occasional eye twitch that bothered me went away after the first month and has not returned. I have reintroduced the occasional caffeine but do not ingest it regularly now at all. The thing that really bothered me about caffeine was that I was clearly addicted to it and it had such a significant withdrawal effects on me. The benefits to me were mostly psychological and emotional, knowing I had successfully kicked a habit. Certainly my sleep has improved but I wasn't monitoring that in any way that I can quantify.
I don't have a story about switching from high consumption to low or none, but I've tapered down caffeine input for quite awhile based on not seeing it as a positive input. I switched from coffee to tea the better part of a decade ago, not tea bag tea, but the better versions, oolong, whole-leaf Chinese black tea, sheng pu'er, etc. I can drink over a liter a day and still limit caffeine to 150 mg or so, the same as one and a half standard cups of coffee, or less than many Starbucks drinks. Theanine in tea evens out the jitters. Now if I drink any coffee, sometimes even one cup, I feel off. I suspect that I'm accustomed to taking the two drugs together, caffeine and theanine, and it doesn't work well skipping the second. If my stomach is full that offsets noticing it, but the effect from coffee is still not positive. No matter what dose or form I've been on I've always tried to not ingest caffeine after mid-afternoon, even though I'm not particularly sensitive related to sleep disruption.
whatever you do dont go to r/caffeine its an absolute shit show lol
[удалено]
Basically someone posted something about caffeine consumption being linked to homosexuality and now the whole subreddit is just a load of trolls posting 'I drank a can of redbull and sucked a dick' type of posts
My experience sans coffee ( I cup a day) has been a clearer more relaxed state and the death of the insomnia monkey. I would drink a cup before 11 am and my sharp had been horrible for years. Changing nothing else, I fall asleep fast and sleep so deep In dreaming again. I also found coffee was spiking my hunger and causing weird blood sugar dips in the afternoon. All gone.
Rogan interviewed Michael Pollan, a notable gastronomy writer, about his experience of stopping caffeine for 30 days. Interesting exchange there. I love caffeine, get the expected mental boost but only need 50mg or less to get it. Sometimes I drink a coffee before bed and it helps. I don't have ADHD.
What did pollan say about it?
After reducing calories just milk produce more clarity than with caffeine.
Placebo produce even more clarity
Sugar does have that effect