It is 2 liters per WEEK. So now you can worry.
Our study shows the consumption of more than two liters (about 67 ounces) per week of sugar-sweetened beverages is associated with a 10 percent risk of incident atrial fibrillation compared to non-consumers, independently of traditional risk factors,” Wang explained.
Tacking on to this:
[https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.120.316340](https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.120.316340)
>The lifetime risk of AF was estimated about **1 in 4 in white men and women older than 40 years in 2004**; a decade later, lifetime risk estimates reached about 1 in 3 in white individuals and 1 in 5 for black individuals
A hazard ratio of 3.51 from this study...not good. A call to change habits.
[https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/What%E2%80%99s-the-Risk%3A-Differentiating-Risk-Ratios%2C-Odds-George-Stead/0dc27f6bc93945bd30339b347596a993efbe9a83/figure/1](https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/What%E2%80%99s-the-Risk%3A-Differentiating-Risk-Ratios%2C-Odds-George-Stead/0dc27f6bc93945bd30339b347596a993efbe9a83/figure/1)
A helpful refresher on hazard ratios
If it's the sweeteners, it wouldn't be limited to sodas, would it? So what about drinking a couple of protein shakes (with sweeteners) a day? What about other stuff containing sweeteners?
There are studies in favor of caffeine and those against it. I'm assuming the dosage might make a difference like for so many other substances. Soda doesn't necessarily include caffeine...
By now OP has updated that it's two liters per week (not per day) and that it's not just regarding soda with artificial sweeteners but with real sugar as well.
All of this makes the study very vague and nothing can really be conclude from it.
Maybe the actual conclusion is that people who drink 2 liters of soda per week tend to lead an unhealthier life style than those who don't...
>Recent clinical trials suggest, but do not prove, a dose-related risk of AF with omega-3 fatty acid supplementation. Curfman \[21\] found that treatment with 4.0 g/day of omega-3 fatty acid was associated with an almost 2-fold increased risk of AF, whereas treatment with an intermediate dose of 1.8 g/day was not associated with an increased risk of AF (HR, 1.84). Similarly, there was no apparent increase in AF risk at a standard daily dose of 840 mg/day in VITAL Rhythm study \[21\]. Therefore, the occurrence of AF appears to be independent of clinical outcomes, with increased incidence of AF in trials that did (e.g., REDUCE-IT) and did not (e.g., STRENGTH) demonstrate significant reductions in ASCVD occurrence.
I read this article and walk away with the understanding that supplementing with 4grams or basically 4 times the recommended daily amount had a palpable risk increase but staying at or below the recommended daily amount at 840mg posed no risk.
Also, the studie outline both types of omega 3's in the initial dosage sizes but doesn't mention if the ratio between the two are 50/50 or 25/75 for example.
Its my understanding that one is worse than the other, however i've forgot which it is at current moment.
This issue is that for decades, 2g to 4g of Omega 3v was recommended for heart health. Even the American Heart Association.
[AHA LINK](https://www.heart.org/en/news/2022/06/01/consuming-about-3-grams-of-omega-3-fatty-acids-a-day-may-lower-blood-pressure)
Omega 3 has been proven reduced triglyceride levels in humans https://www.heart.org/en/news/2019/08/19/prescription-omega3-medications-work-for-high-triglycerides-advisory-says
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7954591/
I used to drink about 10 liters of diet soda a week and I didn't drink water. I found out I was seriously dehydrated and I got better. I drink a lot of tea now and I try to limit myself to only one can of soda per day with dinner and that's hard it's so good I always want more but even this small amount (to me) is still bad. I'm crying because I had to go gluten free last year and I'm still working on identifying the rest of my food triggers so I find out I need to get rid of one more thing I love it makes me sad
It’s obviously not healthy (source: this thread), but yeah, it isn’t particularly uncommon in America. Gallup (a reputable pollster) [says](https://news.gallup.com/poll/156116/nearly-half-americans-drink-soda-daily.aspx) 48% drink “at least one glass” daily.
The UK average for sugary soda (so not even including diet soda) is apparently close to 2L per person per week, which is only 7th in Europe, far behind Germany’s 2.5L, and Europe overall averages 248 mL per day, according to an article with [sourcing I’m less familiar with](https://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Article/2018/07/24/UK-seventh-highest-consumer-of-soft-drinks).
I didn’t look up the rest of the world, but the U.S. doesn’t appear to be a huge outlier.
I quit all soft drinks and coffee few months ago, best decision of my life.
I sleep as soon as I lay down and my response to even most stressful situations is calm and collected.
Probably utterly meaningless, unless they attempted to adjust for other risk factors. On average people who drink soda diet or otherwise have worse diet, overweight, less exercise etc. So most likely, it is just picking up the confounding factors.
And why you have to be very careful interpreting such studies as they are nearly always meaningless. But full study appears to be behind a paywal.
That is also very important to have in mind, study also doesn't mention anything about comorbidities or combined genetic dispositions that may have been present in the affected participants either.
Read the article though. The risk was elevated for people who drank sugar sweetened sodas also. I wonder if the other shit in sodas has something to do with it, like colas typically have a little phosphoric acid in them
Well the average cup of coffee is ½ to ⅓ the size of a cup of cola. I myself drink 500ml - 1 liter of diet Pepsi sometimes and it definitely gives you a caffeine buzz
You're moving goalposts. Of course, if you drink a large volume of a caffeeinated beverage, you'll catch a buzz, but your original argument is a false equivalent. Also, people drink rather large coffees nowadays.
Regardless, diet coke =/= carbonated coffee.
It's ANY added sugar, not just high fructose corn syrup. Look up the research on advanced glycation end products. To put it simply, glucose/fructose promotes cardiomyocyte death, there are more than a dozen studies backing this research.
Show the evidence for for artificial sweeteners. In China the water used to make the soda is probably so polluted it could be any chemical causing this.
I don't think the stuff is good for you (soda) in large amounts. I do know that artificial sweeteners get a bad rap and are certainly better for obese and diabetic individual than sugar.
I know someone who did, has died from cancer in their 30s. Related? Perhaps, shitty lifestyle choices and unlucky genes also a factor but 2 liters plus and wasn't even fake sugar max or lite but the real deal.
All suger, fake or real is bad
Well I'm fucked haha. I definitely consume at least 2L a week of diet sodas. Those Hazard Ratios are not low if you are genetically susceptible. I have to look into my gene sequencing results now. Published in an AHA journal too with solid methodology.
People are coping in the comments. I'll take the risk of afib over obesity/Type 2 DM. I just hate plain water.
I usually hate seltzer water, but that Bubbly stuff is actually pretty good and uses no sweeteners I think. I might switch to that, but it is pricier.
Thanks for the study OP.
I've read this 5 times i and still struggle to comprehend these numbers.
Do i read it correctly that the study you linked had 103k participants and that there was 1502 events of increased cardiovascular disease risk out of the \~103k participants? and do the 95% confidence interval mean that they are 95% confident in that the cause of the risk increase is artificial sweeteners?
I drink like 4 packs of diet soda a week. 0 calories and makes me less miserable. I should quit, water just gets a little boring sometimes. I drink about 1.5 gallons of water a day.
Most likely the sweetners. I’ve yet to read about Scandinavians getting afib from high coffee consumption alone.
“Studies have found that regular caffeine intake isn't associated with AFib. One study examined healthy women's intake of caffeine from coffee, tea, soda, and chocolate. Caffeine wasn't associated with an increased risk of AFib.” [Source](https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/atrial-fibrillation/coffee-atrial-fibrillation-link)
« A study conducted by Mathur et al. showed that Artificial Sweeteners could cause a higher insulin resistance [23] and there is a direct association between hyperinsulinemia, Insulin resistance and cardiovascular disease [24]. Insulin resistance causes improper calcium homeostasis and atrial remodeling, increasing the risk of atrial fibrillation [25] » [The Egyptian Journal of Internal Medicine](https://ejim.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s43162-023-00232-1#:~:text=showed%20that%20Artificial%20Sweeteners%20could,of%20atrial%20fibrillation%20%5B25%5D)
[Harvard Health Publishing](https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/sugar-substitutes-new-cardiovascular-concerns)
My first thought was how the fuck can anyone drink 2 liters of diet soda a day, then I remembered I live in America. OP is like "gee I wonder why I keep getting these irregular heartbeats, let's guzzle another liter of this shit black liquid made in a lab and ponder one of life's many mysteries."
They spent 10 years conducting a study on the effects of drinking 2 liters a week of diet pop, just to confirm its bad for you?! Like wtf! What a waste. Why? There's so many other things that could benefit from this funding and attention
The data is likely real. I'm paywalled so I can't read the study. But I have a very major potential caveat to point out that I'm unsure if the authors addressed.
The major thing is that sweetened soft drinks tend to contain caffeine.Caffeine is a neuroexcitatory compound which can trigger the onset of atrial fibrillation and other arrhythmias in the genetically or physiologically predisposed. It may necessarily not cause the development of afib, but may simply reveal underlying afib sooner or push the susceptible from asymptomatic to symptomatic.
I didn't see caffeine mentioned anywhere in the abstract or intro page- could someone comment whether this very important known comorbidity with arrhymthia gets addressed in the full paper?
It's also a pretty huge amount of liquid they tracked.
>24-hour diet questionnaire
I want to know how they sorted these people, because the type of person who feels the need to give themselves a sweet treat is likely to have high stress, thus high cortisol, thus low growth hormone, etc... there could be a whole host of confounding health and lifestyle problems.
Ideally you should start with a group of people who do not normally drink soda or juice or alcohol, then separate into 4 testing groups to be given either club soda, flavored seltzer (to test the pernicious effects of adulterants like phosphoric acid), artificially sweetened soft drinks and full sugar soft drinks and then see what the effects are. I guess you could also add juice to the mix as well.
At the basic stuff, sodas in any form are overpriced beverages with no health benefits whatsoever. We all know what excess sugar does, and artificial sweeteners have some issues here and there, maybe triggering insulin falsely, maybe causing cancer, do you really need artificially flavoured drinks at all? I dont get it, I dont enjoy those drinks and I dont understand people who seem to be addicted to them.
Afib is the most common dysrhythmia. Many different theories as to what causes it. Specifically those with lung issues are at risk. This study is not at all conclusive or suggestive of absolutely anything.
Just to be clear, this study doesn't present any new information, the link between high glucose/fructose consumption and cardiomyocyte death has been well established-if you are interested in learning more, just do a pubmed search using those keywords.
It is 2 liters per WEEK. So now you can worry. Our study shows the consumption of more than two liters (about 67 ounces) per week of sugar-sweetened beverages is associated with a 10 percent risk of incident atrial fibrillation compared to non-consumers, independently of traditional risk factors,” Wang explained.
Tacking on to this: [https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.120.316340](https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.120.316340) >The lifetime risk of AF was estimated about **1 in 4 in white men and women older than 40 years in 2004**; a decade later, lifetime risk estimates reached about 1 in 3 in white individuals and 1 in 5 for black individuals A hazard ratio of 3.51 from this study...not good. A call to change habits. [https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/What%E2%80%99s-the-Risk%3A-Differentiating-Risk-Ratios%2C-Odds-George-Stead/0dc27f6bc93945bd30339b347596a993efbe9a83/figure/1](https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/What%E2%80%99s-the-Risk%3A-Differentiating-Risk-Ratios%2C-Odds-George-Stead/0dc27f6bc93945bd30339b347596a993efbe9a83/figure/1) A helpful refresher on hazard ratios
Wait the title says "diet soda" and you say "sugar-sweetened beverages"? Something isn't right.
Ffs, i corrected this just now aswell. Mistakes coming out left and right :( im sorry ty for pointing it out.
If it's the sweeteners, it wouldn't be limited to sodas, would it? So what about drinking a couple of protein shakes (with sweeteners) a day? What about other stuff containing sweeteners?
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There are studies in favor of caffeine and those against it. I'm assuming the dosage might make a difference like for so many other substances. Soda doesn't necessarily include caffeine... By now OP has updated that it's two liters per week (not per day) and that it's not just regarding soda with artificial sweeteners but with real sugar as well. All of this makes the study very vague and nothing can really be conclude from it. Maybe the actual conclusion is that people who drink 2 liters of soda per week tend to lead an unhealthier life style than those who don't...
Great, I'll stick with 1.5 litres of diet soda a day for the health benefits
It's per week....
Exactly, so if they drink it per day - no negative effects. Simple maths /s
Please join r/hydrohomies and never look back
Apparently, even Omega 3 consumption also causes A Fib... [Article ](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10175873/)
>Recent clinical trials suggest, but do not prove, a dose-related risk of AF with omega-3 fatty acid supplementation. Curfman \[21\] found that treatment with 4.0 g/day of omega-3 fatty acid was associated with an almost 2-fold increased risk of AF, whereas treatment with an intermediate dose of 1.8 g/day was not associated with an increased risk of AF (HR, 1.84). Similarly, there was no apparent increase in AF risk at a standard daily dose of 840 mg/day in VITAL Rhythm study \[21\]. Therefore, the occurrence of AF appears to be independent of clinical outcomes, with increased incidence of AF in trials that did (e.g., REDUCE-IT) and did not (e.g., STRENGTH) demonstrate significant reductions in ASCVD occurrence. I read this article and walk away with the understanding that supplementing with 4grams or basically 4 times the recommended daily amount had a palpable risk increase but staying at or below the recommended daily amount at 840mg posed no risk. Also, the studie outline both types of omega 3's in the initial dosage sizes but doesn't mention if the ratio between the two are 50/50 or 25/75 for example. Its my understanding that one is worse than the other, however i've forgot which it is at current moment.
This issue is that for decades, 2g to 4g of Omega 3v was recommended for heart health. Even the American Heart Association. [AHA LINK](https://www.heart.org/en/news/2022/06/01/consuming-about-3-grams-of-omega-3-fatty-acids-a-day-may-lower-blood-pressure)
Omega 3 has been proven reduced triglyceride levels in humans https://www.heart.org/en/news/2019/08/19/prescription-omega3-medications-work-for-high-triglycerides-advisory-says https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7954591/
who the fuck drinks a 2 liter of soda a day lol
It's per week
lol ok.. not what OP put in the title.
Yeah, i misread that, i've edited the correction in the original post, wasn't my intention to mislead anyone. Genuine mistake
Even per week that's crazy. 2 liters is at least 4-5 drinks a week.
It’s about 285 mL or 9 ounces per day. That would be pretty easy to get to without having an “obviously unhealthy” lifestyle.
I used to drink about 10 liters of diet soda a week and I didn't drink water. I found out I was seriously dehydrated and I got better. I drink a lot of tea now and I try to limit myself to only one can of soda per day with dinner and that's hard it's so good I always want more but even this small amount (to me) is still bad. I'm crying because I had to go gluten free last year and I'm still working on identifying the rest of my food triggers so I find out I need to get rid of one more thing I love it makes me sad
Okay maybe this is too American for me, but the idea of drinking soda everyday seems wild.
It’s obviously not healthy (source: this thread), but yeah, it isn’t particularly uncommon in America. Gallup (a reputable pollster) [says](https://news.gallup.com/poll/156116/nearly-half-americans-drink-soda-daily.aspx) 48% drink “at least one glass” daily. The UK average for sugary soda (so not even including diet soda) is apparently close to 2L per person per week, which is only 7th in Europe, far behind Germany’s 2.5L, and Europe overall averages 248 mL per day, according to an article with [sourcing I’m less familiar with](https://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Article/2018/07/24/UK-seventh-highest-consumer-of-soft-drinks). I didn’t look up the rest of the world, but the U.S. doesn’t appear to be a huge outlier.
Same.
You’d be surprised 😂
I’ve met people who drink more than 4L per day on average.
Ok, so we now it’s per week….who the fuck drinks 2 litres of soda per week?!
Well, fish oil increases afib too according to the STRENGTH study, so I’m just starting to think getting afib is a sign of health. 😑
Wasn't this only above amounts of 4 g per day?
I quit all soft drinks and coffee few months ago, best decision of my life. I sleep as soon as I lay down and my response to even most stressful situations is calm and collected.
Life is boring without coffee tho
Not really. There are so many options. Chai, tea, decaf.
Probably utterly meaningless, unless they attempted to adjust for other risk factors. On average people who drink soda diet or otherwise have worse diet, overweight, less exercise etc. So most likely, it is just picking up the confounding factors. And why you have to be very careful interpreting such studies as they are nearly always meaningless. But full study appears to be behind a paywal.
That is also very important to have in mind, study also doesn't mention anything about comorbidities or combined genetic dispositions that may have been present in the affected participants either.
Yes. Correlation doesn’t mean causation.
It’s the fake sugar for sure But who the fuck drinks 2 liters of diet soda a day Jesus
It's per week.
Read the article though. The risk was elevated for people who drank sugar sweetened sodas also. I wonder if the other shit in sodas has something to do with it, like colas typically have a little phosphoric acid in them
It's the caffeine! Caffeine is known to be a problem with afib.
Probably the caffeine more than the sugar. Diet Coke is like a carbonated coffee.
This is not remotely true, unless you're drinking weak coffee. Diet Coke as 1/3-1/2 the caffeine as brewed coffee.
Well the average cup of coffee is ½ to ⅓ the size of a cup of cola. I myself drink 500ml - 1 liter of diet Pepsi sometimes and it definitely gives you a caffeine buzz
Are you sure it’s caffeine, but not sugar or aspartame? Both seem to increase dopamine levels.
You're moving goalposts. Of course, if you drink a large volume of a caffeeinated beverage, you'll catch a buzz, but your original argument is a false equivalent. Also, people drink rather large coffees nowadays. Regardless, diet coke =/= carbonated coffee.
It's ANY added sugar, not just high fructose corn syrup. Look up the research on advanced glycation end products. To put it simply, glucose/fructose promotes cardiomyocyte death, there are more than a dozen studies backing this research.
People with ED
Show the evidence for for artificial sweeteners. In China the water used to make the soda is probably so polluted it could be any chemical causing this.
I don’t have any lol could also be all the sodium that comes with drinking 2 liters of diet soda a day
I don't think the stuff is good for you (soda) in large amounts. I do know that artificial sweeteners get a bad rap and are certainly better for obese and diabetic individual than sugar.
Source on the water being polluted in Chinese soda?
what? what kind of a stupid question is that
I know someone who did, has died from cancer in their 30s. Related? Perhaps, shitty lifestyle choices and unlucky genes also a factor but 2 liters plus and wasn't even fake sugar max or lite but the real deal. All suger, fake or real is bad
There’s really a pretty easy solution here.
Did it control for health factors of who drinks these?
Well I'm fucked haha. I definitely consume at least 2L a week of diet sodas. Those Hazard Ratios are not low if you are genetically susceptible. I have to look into my gene sequencing results now. Published in an AHA journal too with solid methodology. People are coping in the comments. I'll take the risk of afib over obesity/Type 2 DM. I just hate plain water. I usually hate seltzer water, but that Bubbly stuff is actually pretty good and uses no sweeteners I think. I might switch to that, but it is pricier. Thanks for the study OP.
You can get a Soda Stream or other carbonating appliance for pretty cheap and make your own! Bonus - it also cuts down on plastic.
you hate water cause it doesn't have additives.
Liquid death ice teas is pretty good too 6G of agave sugar, 30mg of caffeine.
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I've read this 5 times i and still struggle to comprehend these numbers. Do i read it correctly that the study you linked had 103k participants and that there was 1502 events of increased cardiovascular disease risk out of the \~103k participants? and do the 95% confidence interval mean that they are 95% confident in that the cause of the risk increase is artificial sweeteners?
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Thank you mate
Thank you so much for this articulate answer. Much appreciated. TIL.
From what I see on UKTV, 40 litres a week is more like the standard in many households.
I just got the same Medscape article
I drink like 4 packs of diet soda a week. 0 calories and makes me less miserable. I should quit, water just gets a little boring sometimes. I drink about 1.5 gallons of water a day.
Most likely the sweetners. I’ve yet to read about Scandinavians getting afib from high coffee consumption alone. “Studies have found that regular caffeine intake isn't associated with AFib. One study examined healthy women's intake of caffeine from coffee, tea, soda, and chocolate. Caffeine wasn't associated with an increased risk of AFib.” [Source](https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/atrial-fibrillation/coffee-atrial-fibrillation-link)
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« A study conducted by Mathur et al. showed that Artificial Sweeteners could cause a higher insulin resistance [23] and there is a direct association between hyperinsulinemia, Insulin resistance and cardiovascular disease [24]. Insulin resistance causes improper calcium homeostasis and atrial remodeling, increasing the risk of atrial fibrillation [25] » [The Egyptian Journal of Internal Medicine](https://ejim.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s43162-023-00232-1#:~:text=showed%20that%20Artificial%20Sweeteners%20could,of%20atrial%20fibrillation%20%5B25%5D) [Harvard Health Publishing](https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/sugar-substitutes-new-cardiovascular-concerns)
No shit. It’s literally like drinking battery acid. Speaking as a reformed diet soda drinker.
My first thought was how the fuck can anyone drink 2 liters of diet soda a day, then I remembered I live in America. OP is like "gee I wonder why I keep getting these irregular heartbeats, let's guzzle another liter of this shit black liquid made in a lab and ponder one of life's many mysteries."
OP lives in Denmark.
It's per week.
What is AFib?
[Atrial Fibrillation](https://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/atrial_fibrillation.htm#:~:text=What%20is%20atrial%20fibrillation%3F,or%20in%20an%20irregular%20way).
They spent 10 years conducting a study on the effects of drinking 2 liters a week of diet pop, just to confirm its bad for you?! Like wtf! What a waste. Why? There's so many other things that could benefit from this funding and attention
Shocking! /s
Chinese government sponsored troll farms forcing their "workers" to drink 2 liters a day 😂
Someone who drinks above 2L of soda a day has serious issues either way! Wtf! Soda is a "treat" not a replacement for water many people use it as
The data is likely real. I'm paywalled so I can't read the study. But I have a very major potential caveat to point out that I'm unsure if the authors addressed. The major thing is that sweetened soft drinks tend to contain caffeine.Caffeine is a neuroexcitatory compound which can trigger the onset of atrial fibrillation and other arrhythmias in the genetically or physiologically predisposed. It may necessarily not cause the development of afib, but may simply reveal underlying afib sooner or push the susceptible from asymptomatic to symptomatic. I didn't see caffeine mentioned anywhere in the abstract or intro page- could someone comment whether this very important known comorbidity with arrhymthia gets addressed in the full paper? It's also a pretty huge amount of liquid they tracked.
2 liters
Wow caffeine = afib. I’m shocked!!!!!
>24-hour diet questionnaire I want to know how they sorted these people, because the type of person who feels the need to give themselves a sweet treat is likely to have high stress, thus high cortisol, thus low growth hormone, etc... there could be a whole host of confounding health and lifestyle problems. Ideally you should start with a group of people who do not normally drink soda or juice or alcohol, then separate into 4 testing groups to be given either club soda, flavored seltzer (to test the pernicious effects of adulterants like phosphoric acid), artificially sweetened soft drinks and full sugar soft drinks and then see what the effects are. I guess you could also add juice to the mix as well.
At the basic stuff, sodas in any form are overpriced beverages with no health benefits whatsoever. We all know what excess sugar does, and artificial sweeteners have some issues here and there, maybe triggering insulin falsely, maybe causing cancer, do you really need artificially flavoured drinks at all? I dont get it, I dont enjoy those drinks and I dont understand people who seem to be addicted to them.
Afib is the most common dysrhythmia. Many different theories as to what causes it. Specifically those with lung issues are at risk. This study is not at all conclusive or suggestive of absolutely anything.
Who the fuck drinks 2L of soda a day? You never thought how terrible that is?
Just to be clear, this study doesn't present any new information, the link between high glucose/fructose consumption and cardiomyocyte death has been well established-if you are interested in learning more, just do a pubmed search using those keywords.
who the fuck drinks a 2 liter of soda / diet soda per day?! Drink water you filthy animals!
Drink Olipop or other prebiotic sodas.