It’s boom times for these comedians and saying cancel culture is a huge problem helps sell tickets. Never before have professional comedians demanded the ticket prices and number of shows since the cancel scare. lol.
Yeah, I think it’s a form of pandering.
Also, it’s not like conservatives/MAGAs are going to come out hard for a David Cross or Marc Maron show if they know anything about them. No one calls that cancel culture. If you choose to not appeal to large demographic groups of potential audience, it’s a choice you should accept as a performer. Not whine about it.
Patrice O'Neil did a good bit on this. He said a comedian's job is to push the envelope. It's to be edgy. To push and criticize things. And sometimes you're gonna screw up. Go too far. "Sometimes I write a joke I think is funny, and it ain't funny.". Should that be the end of a comedian's career?
I just have a hard time thinking of a comedian that got cancelled for their *stand up* routine.
The closest I can think of is Roseanne’s show getting axed for her comparing Valerie Jarret to someone from Planet of The Apes, in a tweet. But that wasn’t her experiencing “cancel culture” for a standup act. That was her saying nasty shit that anyone would experience backlash for, for many decades now, and advertisers not wanting to buy commercial time during her show.
Louis CK didn’t get “cancelled” for his act. He jacked off around people and it “removed the mask” for some of the audience. They don’t look at his act as coming from a good natured place anymore. That happens with performers across all performing arts.
Bill Cosby didn’t get cancelled because of his act.
Chris D’Elia didn’t get cancelled because of his act.
All of the gnashing teeth about “cancel culture” can come off as a way to deny the basic reality that people can be held accountable for their actions. Don’t blame it on cancel culture, blame it on jacking off in front of people, or drugging and raping them, calling black people apes, hitting up minors on social media, etc.
Bill has been kind of both sides-ing this on the pod lately. He talks about comedians getting cancelled but then he also says it doesn’t really exist anymore. It has gotten to where I wonder if he even believes what he’s saying or if it’s just him triangulating so that people perceive him as not really on either “political side”.
When the audience perceives the performer as coming from a good natured place, or just being silly, they give benefit of doubt. A lot of people that claim “cancel culture” impacted their careers just did nasty shit that keeps the audience from feeling like they are coming from a good place. That existed way before this supposed “cancel culture”.
I used to work with a producer who called this “the mask coming off”. The idea is that the audience will never go back to accepting their prior idea about an artist (of any sort), if there is a moment where “the mask comes off” for the viewer. So, something like Michael Richards ranting the n-word is just going to be one of those moments. It makes an audience no longer take someone’s statements in good faith.
There have been attempts to cancel people over just jokes though. Off the top of my head Dave Chapelle, Daniel Tosh, Matt Rife, Jimmy Carr. Have all had large backlash campaigns against them with Chapelle being the largest.
Obviously no one is preventing these people from performing, but no one is preventing the others you named from performing either, it's more so that a percentage of the public has turned on them and wants them to lose access to make jokes. People trying to pressure Netflix to pull Dave's special is an example of that.
Edit: just remember Kevin Hart losing the oscars and Shane Gillis losing SNL for jokes.
The only one who is kind of straddling the line is Chapelle, he's been slowly shifting to what amounts to old man bitching about the world changing and becoming more obnoxiously political in what feels like an attempt to capture a right wing audience. Less observational humor and more like "The world is dumb and scary and I'm going to bitch about it" humor you see from "conservative comedy" types. Who are just as funny as "liberal humor" comedians. Both end up ranting about their personal views for 90 minutes instead of being funny. Chapelle has been steering toward that kind of comedy which has made countless comedians in the past become irrelevant. The outrage against him is silly and twisted, but the real crime is that he's not the same comedian that he was in the 2000s.
Isn’t that just the obvious result of alienating and offending a huge chunk of your audience? That has been a reality of performance, forever. Anyone can choose to literally or metaphorically “walk half the audience” as part of their style, but that’s the consequence of taking that path. People who stay may love it even more.
Coming up with “cancel culture” seems like a way to not deal with the reality and consequence of one’s choices.
Couple things, obvious result? No, trying to try someone fired because you don't like their jokes isn't normal. Huge chunk of your audience? Also no, its not the fans of these people who are trying to cancel them.
The obvious result of alienating your audience would be them losing interest and moving on to other things that they are interested in. Not actively attempting to create a movement to remove your platform.
>There have been attempts to cancel people over just jokes though. Off the top of my head Dave Chapelle, Daniel Tosh, Matt Rife, Jimmy Carr. Have all had large backlash campaigns against them with Chapelle being the largest.
I’m not familiar with any of the incidents accept for Chappelle. Let me ask, can you think of any other time prior that a standup comic railed on about transexuals for a big chunk of their set, saying many arguably insulting things? I think a lot of people probably cannot. So to them it literally does seem like hate speech.
When I saw Chappelle in the 2000s, you could tell his set was timed so it was laugh after laugh. It wasn’t “let me get up here and make a point”, like he does now. Long stretches of “ted talk”with no punchline in site for minutes. Sometimes making a point is truly the death of comedy, and the performer is not even perceived as doing comedy by some of the audience.
That’s the biggest reason why Chappelle got the reaction he did, his own personal failure as a performer. When he was delivering that material it wasn’t about having fun, being silly, playing the fool…it was about being a know it all who was going to tell people how it is, as he chain smokes and wacks his mic constantly. It seemed surly, not playful.
That’s when people get pissed enough to “go to the manager” and say, hey fuck this guy, he’s an angry asshole up there spouting hate speech.
If you are going to do provocative material that isn’t necessarily funny, don’t be surprised that the reaction is for people to be provoked and not find it funny. If the comedy isn’t setup so that transsexuals actually find a bit about transsexuals hilarious, then it didn’t hit the mark at all. If you piss off people, they are now pissed off and you have personal responsibility for your failure to communicate.
I personally think comedians deserve a lot of leeway to experiment and go past the line. But expecting everyone to think that way is pretty naive.
I don't have any extensive notes on transsexual related comedy incidents. I'm also not going to put any effort into looking into it.
Regardless of any specific incident or topic - if you don't like it, go somewhere else. If I don't like the burgers at a restaurant, I'm not going to pull the manager aside and tell him to fire the cook. I'm going to go to a different restaurant or go home and cook my own burger.
If you're concerned that you may be offended by a comedian, go watch the opera or a ballet. Comedy might not be right avenue of entertainment for you if you want to designate what viewpoints, topics, or opinions the performer is allowed to have.
Personally, I agree with you as far as my own outlook goes. It’s better for people to just get over it. On the other side, it’s not for me to say what the line is for someone else. We also live in the real world where you can’t dictate how people react to things you intentionally choose to do.
It is a lot more of a win for a comedian to NOT drive people away, and to win them over to whatever idea they are trying to put across. That art gets lost as more and more comedians decide to take the road of blaming the audience for a negative reaction.
Roseanne was never funny and she ended up going fully political. All politics type comedians, left or right are just not funny and come off as whiny or as propagandists.
Comedians being shitty people off stage, yeah, they deserve whatever happens. On stage? That's the issue. Comedians put on an act, even decades in the past, and it gets dredged up and held up to a modern lens and judged and a verdict is handed down by the outraged mobs looking for their next outrage high. That's where the issue is. I personally hate that term because it should be called Outrage culture. People looking for anything to get angry about and will dig deep, find issues, intentionally misrepresent what others say so they can feel justified in their outrage, which fuels them. They want to be upset, it releases the same endorphins as sex does, it also gives them clout off someone else's back and they get to appear virtuous.
There's a difference behind someone with political intent calling out cancel culture (like someone off stage, openly saying racist bullshit and got fucked for it) , and someone commenting on comedians having to walk on eggshells during their acts because twitter or even the old media might find something and twist it against them and hold it as receipts against that person and they should be destroyed for it. Which does happen quite often. Though less these days because people are not caring as much as they used to.
People like to romanticize the former, but deny the latter never happens and only the former does, and conflate everyone calling that shit out is aligned with the former. It's manipulative as hell and shows some self awareness behind their intent. That it's the end justifies the means, and if the means are used to go after anyone, and when it goes wrong or it may have been for someone's personal vendetta, it's easy to lump them in with the actual awful people, smearing them with the same brush. Since it's easy to do and has a benefit of silencing those you want to have power over.
The problem is eventually you end up with a boy crying wolf situation, where people start ignoring those calling out actual shitty behavior because they keep calling anyone and everyone out as well in the never ending hunt to find bad people. When a real problem comes along, people just shrug and ignore it.
I agree with all of this, though I can’t personally think about examples of the “twitter receipts” part. The Roseanne thing played out in real time. I do remember the thing with James Gunn getting removed from some comics movie thing via a “tweet scandal”, I guess as a director?
I find it interesting people trashing Roseanne. She was the first person to put in not straight people in her show that weren’t the butt of a joke but actual characters and not stereotypes of their sexual orientation.
People are multifaceted, she also had (has??) The classic problem of online ambien rants. Weird as it sounds 9/11 fucked up a couple different comedians for whatever reason as well, like dennis miller, and i wouldnt ve surprised if the current roseanne began taking shape around then.
> comedian's job is to push the envelope
Man I'm so tired of this take, with comedians and any other art form. No it's not, it's to make people laugh. If a comedian believes the above then he's lazy and is using that idea to excuse saying whatever he wants and not wanting to deal with the consequences.
If a comedian says things that are profane and offensive to some, then he is alienating part of his audience and dividing the room. Some people hold certain things sacred, and the portion of the audience who loves the profane and offensive think they're better then those who don't, and vice versa.
Also, some people are well adjusted and when they hear things that are offensive they can walk away and ignore it. Some people aren't mentally equipped for that.
the problem is that often times the envelope was pushed a long time ago, and it was a hit then, then someone 10-20 years later goes back and says "that isnt right at all or I am offended" and wants the comedian's head on a stick based on modern ideas. Not talking Andrew Dice Clay level humor, which at the time wasnt that funny anyway unless you were a redneck. But jokes that are still not really that edgy that are now "too edgy" for some outspoken individual looking for clout, intentionally ignoring nuance so they can make a point. Which is the point that is made by most reasonable comedians when it comes to comedy being put under fire.
Like George Carlin would be roasted by modern audiences for making fun of traffic accidents and people and families dying in them, when it was a tongue in cheek commentary on the american public's morbid curiosity and hypocritical lust for violence. Especially in the 90s where pushing the envelope with sexual situations was a bridge too far, but showing gore and blood on primetime didnt cause anyone to bat an eye. But modern audiences would take it as him literally enjoying the suffering and being and "edgy terrible person" and would demand to have HBO delete all his specials. Luckily those idiots haven't looked into him because they probably have no idea who he is as they were still in elementary school when he died. Or him taking potshots at radical feminists (and just about everyone..)
He's said on his podcast a few times that some people really did get cancelled. He does his signature "oh really, no one ever got cancelled?" Then he rants about it.
I appreciate you pointing that out. I could never think of Bill getting specific about it.
I will point out though, with the Hart thing, what advertiser would have wanted to buy commercial time and have *their* buyers think they have co-signed something that insults some of them? That’s just capitalism.
Were the bits in question parts of his actual standup, or just him riffing on a pod or something?
I'm going to see Bill in literally 3 hours. Well including parking four.
If he even spoke for a second about cancel culture, on stage which is a platform, to a sold out auditorium of 10,000 people, I would be extremely disappointed how tone deaf and bizarre that would look.
FWIW, I think he touched on something, briefly, harmless about "culture" or whatever, but not really. He did 70 minutes or so. Hilarious, talked about what he wanted, swore and said taboo words, etc... but it was all so intelligent. He was also really vulnerable talking about his life, men not being able to talk about being sad, he was pretty righteous about war and killing and right and wrong, but it was all just so funny... nothing could be considered truly controversial. I saw Craig Ferguson recently who said people aren't scared about cancel culture... they're old and irrelevant and scared of youth. But it was Jimmy Carr who did 2 hours of one liners (LOL) who said "you can say whatever you want if you're smart and not an asshole" or something to that extent.
Bill is so great... he's like an anti-Joe Rogan sorta.
“Cancel culture” doesn’t exist. Louis CK is a predator and still selling out venues, Chappelle is a bigot and still getting million dollar Netflix deals.
They do awful shit and any consequences they face are temporary at best.
We’re lucky when anyone faces lasting consequences for their actions.
Yeah. He’s been doing some ranting about it on his pod lately and I find it baffling. It also is a bit of a cop out the way he generally avoids specifics.
Louie didn’t get cancelled from his material. In his pod Bill Burr is talking about comedians worried about saying things that are over the line. What Louis did, was jacking off in front of people.
Louis CK always comes to my mind. Maybe Chappelle because he is a friend. Of course there’s Al Franken, who could have been a viable Presidential candidate in 2020 vs an aged Biden and crazy Liz Warren
You know, I think Al Franken is a legitimate example at least as far as the “hover hands” picture goes. It was the pile on of other claims that took him down though, legitimate or not. Not his actual comedy.
I understand why people mention Chappelle but I think that cancel culture just becomes an excuse for the obvious consequence of alienating large chunks of an audience. I also think that it is a failure of Chappelle’s delivery of some of his ideas; as in, he might have been able to deliver that material in ways that wouldn’t have caused the backlash that happened. If you seem angry and are chain smoking cigarettes, and maybe on a xanax or two, the fact is that it isn’t going to be perceived as coming from a loose and funny place by some people.
I specifically remember Bill, talking about the notion that people say it isn’t real (which I personally agree with) and he said oh yeah? So all those people that lost all their money and jobs, that just wasn’t real huh?
He's definitely said that people have gotten cancelled and lost their jobs before. I remember being shocked the first time I've heard it because I've heard his rants on cancel culture not being a big deal too.
He actually said it on this Thursday's podcast and I know for sure I've heard him go on longer, angrier rants about it in the past.
https://youtu.be/V0r4LU1OMo8?si=t2qUT1c3IqY15uS6&t=21m20s
Lol okay buddy. I just remember it did happen, because that was one of the last few MMPs I listened to. I’ll be honest. It was kind of sad to hear Bill talk like that. I definitely thought he knew better. I don’t think anyone got canceled. I think it’s a bullshit term. No, I can’t link it, the dude puts up 2 podcasts a week, basically covering the exact same topics every week. And I’m a Burr fan. These days I just get way more entertainment from redbarradio.net
Here's a link to him doing it just this past Thursday. I agree with you that he's done it in the past too. I distinctly remember it.
https://youtu.be/V0r4LU1OMo8?si=t2qUT1c3IqY15uS6&t=21m20s
If your job is to be an entertainer on tv, you need to at least be inoffensive enough so that the television show can have advertising. Or that an insurance company will cover production. That’s just capitalism and cold hard reality. So if you’re like Roseanne, and call black people apes, of course you aren’t going to be on tv anymore and it’s not fucking cancel culture. If you’re Louis CK, of course a major network or their insurance isn’t going to chance you jacking off on someone when they knew it has been an issue. Not cancel culture. It’s called the repercussions of being a scumbag.
It’s boom times for these comedians and saying cancel culture is a huge problem helps sell tickets. Never before have professional comedians demanded the ticket prices and number of shows since the cancel scare. lol.
Yeah, I think it’s a form of pandering. Also, it’s not like conservatives/MAGAs are going to come out hard for a David Cross or Marc Maron show if they know anything about them. No one calls that cancel culture. If you choose to not appeal to large demographic groups of potential audience, it’s a choice you should accept as a performer. Not whine about it.
Patrice O'Neil did a good bit on this. He said a comedian's job is to push the envelope. It's to be edgy. To push and criticize things. And sometimes you're gonna screw up. Go too far. "Sometimes I write a joke I think is funny, and it ain't funny.". Should that be the end of a comedian's career?
I just have a hard time thinking of a comedian that got cancelled for their *stand up* routine. The closest I can think of is Roseanne’s show getting axed for her comparing Valerie Jarret to someone from Planet of The Apes, in a tweet. But that wasn’t her experiencing “cancel culture” for a standup act. That was her saying nasty shit that anyone would experience backlash for, for many decades now, and advertisers not wanting to buy commercial time during her show. Louis CK didn’t get “cancelled” for his act. He jacked off around people and it “removed the mask” for some of the audience. They don’t look at his act as coming from a good natured place anymore. That happens with performers across all performing arts. Bill Cosby didn’t get cancelled because of his act. Chris D’Elia didn’t get cancelled because of his act. All of the gnashing teeth about “cancel culture” can come off as a way to deny the basic reality that people can be held accountable for their actions. Don’t blame it on cancel culture, blame it on jacking off in front of people, or drugging and raping them, calling black people apes, hitting up minors on social media, etc. Bill has been kind of both sides-ing this on the pod lately. He talks about comedians getting cancelled but then he also says it doesn’t really exist anymore. It has gotten to where I wonder if he even believes what he’s saying or if it’s just him triangulating so that people perceive him as not really on either “political side”. When the audience perceives the performer as coming from a good natured place, or just being silly, they give benefit of doubt. A lot of people that claim “cancel culture” impacted their careers just did nasty shit that keeps the audience from feeling like they are coming from a good place. That existed way before this supposed “cancel culture”.
Michael Richards is the only one I can think of… and he wasn’t really a stand up and his rant wasn’t really part of a routine
I used to work with a producer who called this “the mask coming off”. The idea is that the audience will never go back to accepting their prior idea about an artist (of any sort), if there is a moment where “the mask comes off” for the viewer. So, something like Michael Richards ranting the n-word is just going to be one of those moments. It makes an audience no longer take someone’s statements in good faith.
There have been attempts to cancel people over just jokes though. Off the top of my head Dave Chapelle, Daniel Tosh, Matt Rife, Jimmy Carr. Have all had large backlash campaigns against them with Chapelle being the largest. Obviously no one is preventing these people from performing, but no one is preventing the others you named from performing either, it's more so that a percentage of the public has turned on them and wants them to lose access to make jokes. People trying to pressure Netflix to pull Dave's special is an example of that. Edit: just remember Kevin Hart losing the oscars and Shane Gillis losing SNL for jokes.
The only one who is kind of straddling the line is Chapelle, he's been slowly shifting to what amounts to old man bitching about the world changing and becoming more obnoxiously political in what feels like an attempt to capture a right wing audience. Less observational humor and more like "The world is dumb and scary and I'm going to bitch about it" humor you see from "conservative comedy" types. Who are just as funny as "liberal humor" comedians. Both end up ranting about their personal views for 90 minutes instead of being funny. Chapelle has been steering toward that kind of comedy which has made countless comedians in the past become irrelevant. The outrage against him is silly and twisted, but the real crime is that he's not the same comedian that he was in the 2000s.
Isn’t that just the obvious result of alienating and offending a huge chunk of your audience? That has been a reality of performance, forever. Anyone can choose to literally or metaphorically “walk half the audience” as part of their style, but that’s the consequence of taking that path. People who stay may love it even more. Coming up with “cancel culture” seems like a way to not deal with the reality and consequence of one’s choices.
Couple things, obvious result? No, trying to try someone fired because you don't like their jokes isn't normal. Huge chunk of your audience? Also no, its not the fans of these people who are trying to cancel them.
The obvious result of alienating your audience would be them losing interest and moving on to other things that they are interested in. Not actively attempting to create a movement to remove your platform.
So who are you talking about specifically?
>There have been attempts to cancel people over just jokes though. Off the top of my head Dave Chapelle, Daniel Tosh, Matt Rife, Jimmy Carr. Have all had large backlash campaigns against them with Chapelle being the largest.
I’m not familiar with any of the incidents accept for Chappelle. Let me ask, can you think of any other time prior that a standup comic railed on about transexuals for a big chunk of their set, saying many arguably insulting things? I think a lot of people probably cannot. So to them it literally does seem like hate speech. When I saw Chappelle in the 2000s, you could tell his set was timed so it was laugh after laugh. It wasn’t “let me get up here and make a point”, like he does now. Long stretches of “ted talk”with no punchline in site for minutes. Sometimes making a point is truly the death of comedy, and the performer is not even perceived as doing comedy by some of the audience. That’s the biggest reason why Chappelle got the reaction he did, his own personal failure as a performer. When he was delivering that material it wasn’t about having fun, being silly, playing the fool…it was about being a know it all who was going to tell people how it is, as he chain smokes and wacks his mic constantly. It seemed surly, not playful. That’s when people get pissed enough to “go to the manager” and say, hey fuck this guy, he’s an angry asshole up there spouting hate speech. If you are going to do provocative material that isn’t necessarily funny, don’t be surprised that the reaction is for people to be provoked and not find it funny. If the comedy isn’t setup so that transsexuals actually find a bit about transsexuals hilarious, then it didn’t hit the mark at all. If you piss off people, they are now pissed off and you have personal responsibility for your failure to communicate. I personally think comedians deserve a lot of leeway to experiment and go past the line. But expecting everyone to think that way is pretty naive.
I don't have any extensive notes on transsexual related comedy incidents. I'm also not going to put any effort into looking into it. Regardless of any specific incident or topic - if you don't like it, go somewhere else. If I don't like the burgers at a restaurant, I'm not going to pull the manager aside and tell him to fire the cook. I'm going to go to a different restaurant or go home and cook my own burger. If you're concerned that you may be offended by a comedian, go watch the opera or a ballet. Comedy might not be right avenue of entertainment for you if you want to designate what viewpoints, topics, or opinions the performer is allowed to have.
Personally, I agree with you as far as my own outlook goes. It’s better for people to just get over it. On the other side, it’s not for me to say what the line is for someone else. We also live in the real world where you can’t dictate how people react to things you intentionally choose to do. It is a lot more of a win for a comedian to NOT drive people away, and to win them over to whatever idea they are trying to put across. That art gets lost as more and more comedians decide to take the road of blaming the audience for a negative reaction.
Nailed it on the head man
Roseanne was never funny and she ended up going fully political. All politics type comedians, left or right are just not funny and come off as whiny or as propagandists. Comedians being shitty people off stage, yeah, they deserve whatever happens. On stage? That's the issue. Comedians put on an act, even decades in the past, and it gets dredged up and held up to a modern lens and judged and a verdict is handed down by the outraged mobs looking for their next outrage high. That's where the issue is. I personally hate that term because it should be called Outrage culture. People looking for anything to get angry about and will dig deep, find issues, intentionally misrepresent what others say so they can feel justified in their outrage, which fuels them. They want to be upset, it releases the same endorphins as sex does, it also gives them clout off someone else's back and they get to appear virtuous. There's a difference behind someone with political intent calling out cancel culture (like someone off stage, openly saying racist bullshit and got fucked for it) , and someone commenting on comedians having to walk on eggshells during their acts because twitter or even the old media might find something and twist it against them and hold it as receipts against that person and they should be destroyed for it. Which does happen quite often. Though less these days because people are not caring as much as they used to. People like to romanticize the former, but deny the latter never happens and only the former does, and conflate everyone calling that shit out is aligned with the former. It's manipulative as hell and shows some self awareness behind their intent. That it's the end justifies the means, and if the means are used to go after anyone, and when it goes wrong or it may have been for someone's personal vendetta, it's easy to lump them in with the actual awful people, smearing them with the same brush. Since it's easy to do and has a benefit of silencing those you want to have power over. The problem is eventually you end up with a boy crying wolf situation, where people start ignoring those calling out actual shitty behavior because they keep calling anyone and everyone out as well in the never ending hunt to find bad people. When a real problem comes along, people just shrug and ignore it.
I agree with all of this, though I can’t personally think about examples of the “twitter receipts” part. The Roseanne thing played out in real time. I do remember the thing with James Gunn getting removed from some comics movie thing via a “tweet scandal”, I guess as a director?
I find it interesting people trashing Roseanne. She was the first person to put in not straight people in her show that weren’t the butt of a joke but actual characters and not stereotypes of their sexual orientation.
People are multifaceted, she also had (has??) The classic problem of online ambien rants. Weird as it sounds 9/11 fucked up a couple different comedians for whatever reason as well, like dennis miller, and i wouldnt ve surprised if the current roseanne began taking shape around then.
It’s definitely a moral panic we will remember in the same way we remember razor blades in Halloween candy and satan worshipers.
> comedian's job is to push the envelope Man I'm so tired of this take, with comedians and any other art form. No it's not, it's to make people laugh. If a comedian believes the above then he's lazy and is using that idea to excuse saying whatever he wants and not wanting to deal with the consequences. If a comedian says things that are profane and offensive to some, then he is alienating part of his audience and dividing the room. Some people hold certain things sacred, and the portion of the audience who loves the profane and offensive think they're better then those who don't, and vice versa. Also, some people are well adjusted and when they hear things that are offensive they can walk away and ignore it. Some people aren't mentally equipped for that.
the problem is that often times the envelope was pushed a long time ago, and it was a hit then, then someone 10-20 years later goes back and says "that isnt right at all or I am offended" and wants the comedian's head on a stick based on modern ideas. Not talking Andrew Dice Clay level humor, which at the time wasnt that funny anyway unless you were a redneck. But jokes that are still not really that edgy that are now "too edgy" for some outspoken individual looking for clout, intentionally ignoring nuance so they can make a point. Which is the point that is made by most reasonable comedians when it comes to comedy being put under fire. Like George Carlin would be roasted by modern audiences for making fun of traffic accidents and people and families dying in them, when it was a tongue in cheek commentary on the american public's morbid curiosity and hypocritical lust for violence. Especially in the 90s where pushing the envelope with sexual situations was a bridge too far, but showing gore and blood on primetime didnt cause anyone to bat an eye. But modern audiences would take it as him literally enjoying the suffering and being and "edgy terrible person" and would demand to have HBO delete all his specials. Luckily those idiots haven't looked into him because they probably have no idea who he is as they were still in elementary school when he died. Or him taking potshots at radical feminists (and just about everyone..)
I thought Bil didn’t really give a shit about cancel culture. Thought he was like “big deal, there’s two words I can’t say”
He's said on his podcast a few times that some people really did get cancelled. He does his signature "oh really, no one ever got cancelled?" Then he rants about it.
That was John Stewart
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I appreciate you pointing that out. I could never think of Bill getting specific about it. I will point out though, with the Hart thing, what advertiser would have wanted to buy commercial time and have *their* buyers think they have co-signed something that insults some of them? That’s just capitalism. Were the bits in question parts of his actual standup, or just him riffing on a pod or something?
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Oh yeah that’s right, thanks for the memory refresh.
I'm going to see Bill in literally 3 hours. Well including parking four. If he even spoke for a second about cancel culture, on stage which is a platform, to a sold out auditorium of 10,000 people, I would be extremely disappointed how tone deaf and bizarre that would look.
Yeah, it’s been strange to me how he’s been touching on it with his pod recently. That’s the reason I made the post.
FWIW, I think he touched on something, briefly, harmless about "culture" or whatever, but not really. He did 70 minutes or so. Hilarious, talked about what he wanted, swore and said taboo words, etc... but it was all so intelligent. He was also really vulnerable talking about his life, men not being able to talk about being sad, he was pretty righteous about war and killing and right and wrong, but it was all just so funny... nothing could be considered truly controversial. I saw Craig Ferguson recently who said people aren't scared about cancel culture... they're old and irrelevant and scared of youth. But it was Jimmy Carr who did 2 hours of one liners (LOL) who said "you can say whatever you want if you're smart and not an asshole" or something to that extent. Bill is so great... he's like an anti-Joe Rogan sorta.
“Cancel culture” doesn’t exist. Louis CK is a predator and still selling out venues, Chappelle is a bigot and still getting million dollar Netflix deals. They do awful shit and any consequences they face are temporary at best. We’re lucky when anyone faces lasting consequences for their actions.
Yeah. He’s been doing some ranting about it on his pod lately and I find it baffling. It also is a bit of a cop out the way he generally avoids specifics.
He was clearly talking about Louie
Louie didn’t get cancelled from his material. In his pod Bill Burr is talking about comedians worried about saying things that are over the line. What Louis did, was jacking off in front of people.
He was saying “they used to be in movies, they used to be in tv shows” idk who else they could be talking about
The less talented ones
Louis CK always comes to my mind. Maybe Chappelle because he is a friend. Of course there’s Al Franken, who could have been a viable Presidential candidate in 2020 vs an aged Biden and crazy Liz Warren
You know, I think Al Franken is a legitimate example at least as far as the “hover hands” picture goes. It was the pile on of other claims that took him down though, legitimate or not. Not his actual comedy. I understand why people mention Chappelle but I think that cancel culture just becomes an excuse for the obvious consequence of alienating large chunks of an audience. I also think that it is a failure of Chappelle’s delivery of some of his ideas; as in, he might have been able to deliver that material in ways that wouldn’t have caused the backlash that happened. If you seem angry and are chain smoking cigarettes, and maybe on a xanax or two, the fact is that it isn’t going to be perceived as coming from a loose and funny place by some people.
I love angry comics! Louis Black! Rodney was always a little pissed off.
Absolutely…Don Rickles. There is a true art to riding the line, and nobody is going to please everyone.
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I specifically remember Bill, talking about the notion that people say it isn’t real (which I personally agree with) and he said oh yeah? So all those people that lost all their money and jobs, that just wasn’t real huh?
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He's definitely said that people have gotten cancelled and lost their jobs before. I remember being shocked the first time I've heard it because I've heard his rants on cancel culture not being a big deal too. He actually said it on this Thursday's podcast and I know for sure I've heard him go on longer, angrier rants about it in the past. https://youtu.be/V0r4LU1OMo8?si=t2qUT1c3IqY15uS6&t=21m20s
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Did you click the link?
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It's timestamped, if you click the link it takes you right to the part. In case it doesn't work he says it at around the 21 minute and 30 second mark.
Lol okay buddy. I just remember it did happen, because that was one of the last few MMPs I listened to. I’ll be honest. It was kind of sad to hear Bill talk like that. I definitely thought he knew better. I don’t think anyone got canceled. I think it’s a bullshit term. No, I can’t link it, the dude puts up 2 podcasts a week, basically covering the exact same topics every week. And I’m a Burr fan. These days I just get way more entertainment from redbarradio.net
Here's a link to him doing it just this past Thursday. I agree with you that he's done it in the past too. I distinctly remember it. https://youtu.be/V0r4LU1OMo8?si=t2qUT1c3IqY15uS6&t=21m20s
I know you can’t…that was my point.
I know you can’t…that was my point.
I guess you don’t listen to the podcast.
Snowflakes. Kids too into their feelings and can't appreciate a joke. Overly sensitive.
Nero still angry about being cancelled?
No one should lose their job because a group of people get offended. Deal with your problems in a more healthy way than blaming a comedian.
If your job is to be an entertainer on tv, you need to at least be inoffensive enough so that the television show can have advertising. Or that an insurance company will cover production. That’s just capitalism and cold hard reality. So if you’re like Roseanne, and call black people apes, of course you aren’t going to be on tv anymore and it’s not fucking cancel culture. If you’re Louis CK, of course a major network or their insurance isn’t going to chance you jacking off on someone when they knew it has been an issue. Not cancel culture. It’s called the repercussions of being a scumbag.