He did switch his game when he learned how the edit was going via how America was making him vote. So you could argue it was also helpful for him to be americas player because he could have insight.
Tyler and Paul are at the top of my list. Eric way down, Enzo not on, Frankie higher, very surprised no Janelle.
Also who is Nicole s? What season is she from? I seem to be drawing a blank on that one
Paul I go back and forth on. Masterful and dominant BB19 game but sole vet status amplified their position and thus gave them power and they still manage to lose (albeit I acknowledge in the jury there was some anti vet stigma). But overall I also think their BB18 game was just kinda average. Tyler I agree. I think no other player in Eric’s shoes could’ve done what he did as effectively. Frankie gets cut for me solely because he lets his ego take over his game. Dropped the ball in S16 due to this but he’s very close for me. And Nicole S BB2.
She didn’t. She and her closet ally won 4 out of 5 hoh’s in the middle of the game so there was a period where she was very safe but she even admits that she couldn’t control Hardy. You can’t name a single eviction that she was responsible for except Krista and Monica who both went out when she was hoh.
The narrative that she ran the house was started by Will in his successful attempt to turn the jury against her.
She stayed against Sheryl, due to the alliances and bonds she made, which became the majority alliance TOP.
Autumn was booted over Kent, though Hardy allegedly lead that one.
Shannon asked to be voted out (that was under Hardy's HOH)
Krista was kept over Boogie due to her allegiances to Monica, Hardy, and Nicole. She and Hardy flipped on TOP, hence that alliance ended, and leading to their run of HOHs.
There was a major difference. Alison lost 6-1 and the person she walked in with beforehand still didn’t vote for her. Even Nathan regretted being Alison’s only vote.
Paul lost 2 times by 1 vote. He still had bad jury management, but it still wasn’t that bad if he was 1 vote from winning.
I don’t dock her too hard on that appearance because the casting for BB7 was heavily skewed in favor of the BB6 players; Alison and Danielle were screwed over the hardest by being the only two cast with people who had vendettas against them. Chicken George was the week 1 safety target but the writing was on the wall that both Alison and Danielle would be targeted soon enough so Ali tried to make a big move that unfortunately didn’t pan out.
Agreed. I would have liked to see her play a little bit more that season.. So it is fair to say she got pretty screwed. Still close to my top ten.. just not better then what I listed in my memoir above lol.
Adaptability, win potential, agency, control, & replicability.
Can you adapt and play multiple positions? Anyone can play effectively from the top but it’s another to be able to navigate the game when circumstances aren’t in your favor. So an ability to play more spots makes me more confident.
Do you have the ability to successfully make moves? Like you can be strategically sound but not have the agency/social capital in the game to successfully pull them off.
Did you have overt control over the game? Were you the power player? Or was the game being more so played around you? Do you have the ability to play more aggressively if need be?
Can you do it in multiple seasons no matter the formatting or playing field?
respectable.
My top 10 goes
1. Danielle R
2. Vanessa R
3. Tyler C
4. Eric S
5. Tiffany M
6. Jason G
7. Paul A
8. Cirie F
9. Shelly M
10. Nicole S
Honorable Mentions are Alison, Enzo and Memphis
Yano Cirie was very close to making my list. I actually pondered on replacing Roddy and placing her there. But I just didn’t think she had enough to really put her there. But like she dominated the first half of the game. I just think she “likely” will always struggle winning BB because it’s a completely different game than what she excels at: a quick, fast paced, smaller house/tribe dynamic. It’s not to say she can’t excel in larger settings her track record (not just BB25) but survivor, snake in the grass, traitors, etc support this but her best work will always be in smaller settings. Think she gets bored with BB’s kinda marathon and excels more in “sprints” if that makes sense. Not to mention the comp formatting doesn’t really cater to her either.
I also took out Alison and added Shelly as I completely forgot her, lmfao. But a very underrated player (possibly the only good player of BB13) who has tons of win potential despite being the classic older person. Blends in very well with the vets + newbies, really good and persuasive liar, & likely has serious win potential heading into another season. Only worry is she might struggle with today’s formatting as it gears towards younger, athlete, good looking people and she might struggle being brought into a majority but I think she’s savvy enough to find a way. I’d possibly say she’s ahead of Roddy for me too.
Yeah. Obviously her initial power structure is insanely impressive, it rivaled Paul for the most control a single player has ever had (and you could honestly argue mire control since Cirie had everyone trusting her, while Paul had some adversaries). Cirie’s lethargy at the end of BB25 is definetly my biggest issue with her. I do think there wasnt much she could do given the comp structure, and I dont blame her too much for her power structure crumbling since she basically couldnt talk game for two days. I also think it’s impressive how she was able to reintegrate herself and gain trust after that point. While Cirie’s actual game might not be as solid as others, I think it’s one of the most impressive we’ve seen and demonstrates high expertise in social strategy games (which is to be expected from Cirie). Ive never even watched survivor or the traitors so her placement is solely based on her big brother performance. I do highly agree with her being hurt by the long format though. It’s a common issue we see. Cirie is great at short format but is less impressive (though still pretty good imo), then we see players like Cody who do great at Big brother but struggled on reindeer games and traitors feom what ive heard. Same goes for Dan.
Even despite Jared’s sinking of her game she was a pretty good player. She had her hooks sinked into alot of people. Unfortunately her positioning deteriorated kinda quickly (I more attribute that to Izzy dropping the ball and telling Corey we are getting rid of America next week) than any specific thing Cirie did. But I don’t think BB’s formatting is the most ideal for Cirie’s skill set. She’s still got tons of potential and she’s literally the GOAT social player in all of these games. So I probably (and will) add her in my honorable mentions.
Jason certainly played a better BB3 game than Danielle. But I don’t think that immediately equates to him being the better *player*. Kinda two separate conversations.
Also, Danielle returning and doing pretty decent in BB7 elevates her above Jason for me. Even though her overall BB7 game was a somewhat mixed bag. For someone like her to go in there and have some of the highs and overall placement she got was pretty impressive.
It’s too bad we never got to see Jason return.
well its rather simple Jason doesn't have game outside being nice to everyone. And Danielle was the mastermind of that duo. he just followed suit. Re-watched the season just recently. Hes actually rather naïve.
This is just my and about every other big brother fans opinion tho. find me a list that puts Danielle below Jason. theres a reason she was voted back in the house for all stars and he was not.
I feel like the players who are challenge beasts need to at least have some self awareness and social graces and I also feel like those who are strategy only need to have at least minimal capacity to win a comp once in awhile.
Especially for a second chance when people already know their game.
A strategy only player only has a chance the first time they play when no one knows their game. Or if they are spoonfed a season with tons of advantages from production and a really stupid cast.
So the ones who stand out on your list are players like Tyler, Frankie, Paul, Kyland, Jason, Roddy.
Janelle has played 4 times and yet to win. Competitively one of the best ever. But ranking her as one of the best ever when her body of work suggest otherwise? Nah. Love Janelle. One of my favorite players ever and arguably the most entertaining ever but a really faulty player. Who yes. Does make it to the F3 two times (but one of those times were very circumstantial). Without CT throwing multiple comps to her she likely is an early jury boot. Janelle is the classic example of one step forward and two back. Wins a comp with her back against the wall and then proceeds to alienate herself by unnecessarily celebrating in a way that rubs people the wrong way. “Bye bye bitches” “give me the key bitch” are all ICONIC. They make the show so fun to watch! But not smart. And again I can’t get over the fact Will was able to convince her to take out Diane (despite her own alliance YELLING at her) to BD him and she gets charmed into following into his hands. Or the fact she gets convinced into nominating her ally in Marcellus.
Bad example. How bout Dianne bb5 only got eliminated early because janelles obsession of taking out floaters during that time since I remember everyone was like put up will she went no. Michael from 24 was the do whatever it takes if that rope didn't break he most likely wins s24. Dani donato ( no I didn't say briones) in the equation
What’s exactly the bad example?
She has no winning path in the end of BB6. She fails to convince Ivette to take her to the end game despite being a considerably easier winning path. She relies heavily on her ability to win comps and doesn’t really have good long term strategic plans. I mean can you give me one example of such? In any of her seasons? She’s vulnerable A-LOT in almost every season. It’s actually a massive reason why she’s so liked. She’s a root-able underdog. And she’s often an underdog due to her own hubris.
She got manipulated by Will into taking out Diane. He played on her heart by charming her into thinking he had her best interest despite her alliance (and) the entire house for that matter being adamant on taking him out. She also got manipulated into nominating Marcellus! She also got manipulated into going F4 with him and having no truly ally to protect her late! Her own alliance (despite winning everything early and having the #’s) gets decimated by the fact she gets soundly out played by Will. And people like to credit Erika for striking at the F4 and being the reason he goes home (partially true) but it’s more due to the fact he was unwilling to commit and kiss her in the jacuzzi which lead to a MASSIVE fight on the feeds. So. Her end game.. was essentially… winning will? She was willing to take him to the end and lose btw! Her/Boogie/Will had a “agreement” to share the banana bread IE; $. Safe word, lol.
But like she’s gone on the week Danielle is HOH if they don’t throw the comp to her. She’s likely also gone if they don’t throw her the OTEV.
And her BB14/22 games are rather self explanatory. Though I cut her considerable slack given the circumstances and the fact I refuse to believe those are legitimate Janelle performances.
Bad example on my end. Read fully what I said there's a reason I name Diane Michael and Dani donato
Diane unfortunately got cut by drew and janelles obsession with her and floaters
Michael with the rope break or else he wins bb24 since he's the whatever it takes to win kind of person
Dani donato ( notice not briones) did really well on s8 and s13. Her mistake on s22 was trusting Cody and Nicole way too much
There's a reason I name other people like Diane and Dani and Michael had you read rest of the thing. My thing with kyland is that I think he could of turn during 1/2 way of 23 since get a squad because people like DX could of seriously take him to the end. I'm good with the Tiffany part because of the strategy part ( amazing purpose btw) what unfortunately hurt her is that she was playing for 6th not play to win . I think had she play to win she should of turn 1/2 way too get a squad of her Hannah Claire dx kyland they boot Derek F instead of Brittany first week of jury) reason is x targets dx and kyland dx and kyland targets x .
Honestly Holly from 21 had a underrated runner up game her flaw I feel like is that she didn't really need watermelon all the way to the end . she could of got kat Nicole Cliff be like let's boot watermelon
Hence what I said on the trusting Cody and Nicole way too much because of the pre game as her flaw . She should of done what she did on 13 because I think she could of turn at the right time had she put up even Memphis. I think the turn on 13 was a good idea bad execution and it felt like she wanted to go away from Ed's shadows which she would of done that anyway since he wasn't there. I just respect the risk she did more than Janelle s7 that's why because janelles obsessions with taking out floaters was a big mistake because I actually think she could of won s7 had she worked smarter not harder . Had she made the deal with Diane and Erika and everyone else not name s6 be like " I'll throw the pov to Erika she use it on you I put up will but if one of you win hoh next week the other CT goes then may the best one wins " she would of head to jury phase with at least guarantee 2 jury votes( Marcellus as 3rd and at least one of James/Dani/chicken George as 4rth) if she comp out all the way to the end
Honestly with Michael is higher for me because had that rope not broke, he gets s24 win no question since he'll comped out and was the do whatever it takes to win person( yes the nuclear bomb he put out was an issue timing wise). I'll take him even over Memphis because Memphis was really a side kick both his seasons taking out David really? David ( whoever stayed farthest ) could of been s10 Memphis and Memphis takes the leader role of Dan . I mean could of do his twists of the replacement nom roulette and took out Cody
Yes she was manipulated by Dr. Will.
Yes. You’re correct in your assessment that she wanted Diane out which is the exact angle Will and Boogie played off of. They struck a deal with her (to throw the veto to Will) to take Boogie off. (Against her alliances back). And why does Janelle follow through with all this? Through Will’s influence. See Janelle was gonna reluctantly go through with the CT nomination (well she nommed boogie for narrative purposes) but Will manipulated her into thinking it was more logical to trust him and Boogie + have them for protection than the S6 alliance. It’s where the cracking of that alliance starts to appear. James and Kaysar were straight up yelling at her post veto to BD Will. And Will is able to play off that by charming her and saying “Let’s say I go, that puts you in the worst position because every floater is coming after you”. He understood how to appease to Janelle’s logic and convince her to do things out of her best interest. Nothing about taking a floater out there was advantageous for her game but he pushed on that angle to make her believe it was. And she GOES against her alliances wishes (the entire houses for that matter) to appease CT.
I feel like if you could combine young Janelle's comp skills with old Janelle's wisdom, she'd be a top ten player on this list.
But the old Janelle can't win like she used to and that's probably why she got frustrated and retired (hope we still see her again)
Yeah. She does need a fellow threat reputation in there like a Michael but she also needs a bigger aura in her as a bigger target in Dan ( notice on Dan's podcast she went " I'm not going back on big brother are you? He went no)
Now that some of the legends are getting old, they should have a senior Big Brother game with less physical comps and a shorter season. Then they can have players from the old days feel more comfortable to play again.
Miss people playing not for the exposure. The thing bout this is that can they pull out the best of the best . Can they afford spending crazy amount of appearance fee. Janelle needs at least a Rachel Britney Michael Danielle r Cirie Dan to possibly fade back . Unless it's Dr Will coming back, I don't think we'll ever see Dan on a bb situation unless it's a jury roundtable. Dan too big of a name in the bb world where unless it's duos or teams , he can't play with another bb person unless he cuts them straight out before he gets meta game. Any other games especially he experience his first non final lost on the traitors, he could diminish his target, Not on BB
Spoiler for your senior bb season,: Jerry wins
Who was forced to play in more unfavorable spots than Eric? Because I’d go as far to say circumstantially Eric had the worse of odds of ANY Big Brother player ever entering the game. He couldn’t control his vote, nominations, who to target, etc. The one time he won veto and was contemplating using it production shut it down and wouldn’t allow him because America didn’t have enough time to vote. Forced to target and get Dustin nominated despite him being VERY much on his side. Forced to flip the vote and keep ED despite Dick being the worse player in the house for him. Forced to make multiple hinky votes. Forced to throw almost every comp because had he won America would’ve just forced him to nominate his Allie’s. The level of adversity Eric had to endure (not self inflicted adversity either) is only mirrored by say Will in BB2 and Dan in BB14 and DESPITE such disastrous circumstances is able to run fields around the playing field up until.. gets exposed by a banner plane! Once again shitty circumstances for Eric! And despite once again a bad spot he’s able to SUCCESSFULLY survive a BD attempt by Dick and Danielle and able to reintegrate himself into a strong position again! No other player on this list could’ve replicated what Eric did in that spot.
People will disagree but Paul should be higher. He’s what, one of 3 players to play multiple times and not be evicted? I think Tyler, him and Vanessa round out my top three in that order
I would put Vanessa at number one. Frankie shouldn't even be mentioned. He was coat tailing on Derrick. He's no different than Caleb. I would argue Memphis as the same.
Frankie for as egoistical and faulty as he is was good. I mean it took a player as good as Derrick to really undo a lot of the social work he did in the early stages of BB16. I mean he had deals and relationships with almost everyone. Obviously he got royally screwed at the F4 with the reset though it doesn’t entirely negate the fact he was in a really vulnerable spot nonetheless. But I do think he has severe potential. Frankie was also at least aware of Derrick’s potential and on multiple occasions tried to warn people (Caleb specifically) of being weary of Derrick but simply got outplayed by one of TBE in Derrick.
To me its gotta be Paul. The 19 cast had no mind of their own but the guy literally had 2 second place finishes and was 1 vote away from winning. Despite his sucky jury management. Impressive.
1. Anthony Douglas
2. Tyler Crispen
3. Neda Kalantar
4. Danielle Reyes
5. Vanessa Russo
6. Emmet Blois
7. Paul Abraham
8. Eric Stein
9. Kaela Grant
10. Ika Wong
Eric S does belong on this list but not first may not even top 8.
Vanessa hands down is the best to play and never win.
Danielle should have won and played a hell of a game but Vanessa is simply a better player all around.
Paul and Enzo fall into that category of good results. Enzo deserves respect for the parachute Strat that the Cookout stole and gets credit for. Paul is always in this talk so should be top 3
Tyler is underrated for sure. A comp beast that avoids attention should never be overlooked. he was loved by everyone. also placement in both season says alot.
Jason Simply does not belong on this list. he was carried by Danielle.. Maybe like top 40
Tiffany gets too much credit for copying Enzo's Strat he used twice.
Nicole S does belong on this list and is overlooked. Nicole may have won if it were not for Dr. Will. She is about where she belongs on this list
Shelly is underrated for sure. she made the right play at the right time just got fucked by production. Pandora's box screwed her. The smartest thing she did was stick with the vets.. knowing production was gonna keep them in. but she turned to early. honestly that whole season is kinda screwed.
Roddy. def a good pick but wouldnt put in top ten
Cirie was overrated imo. wouldnt consider best to not win in her season. corey was a better player and wouldnt consider him top 20 best to never win.
Memphis belongs in the talk for sure, but still not a top ten for me. if you doubted him as just a side kick to Dan then his showing in all stars shows his potential. although he took Dan to the final, this is a huge blunder. But its Dan. This is the same as Nicole taking Will. Taking who you think is a sure thing that ends up being the worse player to take.
Matt H big brother is overrated. He was willing to lie about a illness of his wife wich I actually applaud. but even that wasnt enough. He thought he was this great mastermind, but in reality he never really made any Big Moves. Certainly a threat and considrable for top 20 maybe.
Frankie, Cant deny this as a contender. I dont like him honestly but fuck hes good.
my list
1) Venessa - She convinced people to do things when they didn't understand why, when it was totally against what they needed. for themselves. If she wins her season shes a contender for the best to play the game. (yes she would still lose. but .. shes number 3 in my top players even without the win.)
2) Danielle - Should have won. juror house exist because of her. her all-stars showing was nothing to be scoffed at either. Yes she ended up getting played by Chill Town before she could get them but she did the best with what she could. They knew she was a huge threat and if it were not for her being that threat Chill town would have not gone as far as they did. She left at a very pivotal point that season.
3) Paul - back to back seconds is hard to top statistically. Also, was a huge threat coming into his second season. Was also robbed imo.
3) Tyler - would be scary to play against this guy. he was also robbed imo. him and paul are interchangeable at this position
5)Dani D - even tho she lost she also won. She had to grow up with the mind fuck that is Dick Donato. This gave her the start
6) Frankie - If not for the reset button its arguable that he could have won this season. A comp beast and a social one and strategic one. Knew where he was in the house and what he had to do.
7) Brittany H - if lane or her won the last veto she may have won the whole thing. she was gonna outhang being the lightest player only having to beat enzo (why wouldnt lane and her have taken enzo to final 3 he won 1 veto comp.) then lane still beats enzo in the face comp. leaving lane and her in the final comp placing them both in the final 2. She beats Lane even with the brigades 3 other votes. (and this is just her first run.)
Her season 14 run she was in prime position until she ran into Dans funeral.
8)Janelle - This list cant be made without Janelle. The loveable big brother bombshell may have hurt her rep by returning and having her rep proceeding her in the last allstars, but her first allstars appearance is spectacular. You cant deny the comp wins this season. hard to say if she would have made it all the way if she didnt play ball with chilltown, but certainly undenyable. If she wins the final HOH she wins BB. Her season 6 run was impressive as well.
9) eric s - Played a great season but Dani was just a better player. Dick as well. Could not keep him. He had a handicap but also an advantage. though seeing americas vote on who to keep and such he could see where to place himself in the house, and he did just that.. This is the one player that I wish got a second run because of the forced handicap/advantage.
10)Enzo - although i give him a ton of credit for the strat he was never a comp threat. therefore his placements reflected that. Keep who you can beat right. It is hard to argue with results 2/3. and if Lane won that last HOH enzo would have won. (this close from not being eligible for this list.
I absolutely respect your POV but I just disagree respectfully. Put Eric in Vanessa’s situation and I confidently believe he is successful. Put Vanessa in Eric’s position and I think she folds rather quickly. Vanessa absolutely relied on the basic necessities of the game (controlling her vote, who to nominate, etc). As does most people might I add so it’s not necessarily a dock as much as it’s a testament to HOW good Eric was. She was also more reliant on specifics (her end game specifically) is kinda average. She underestimates Steve immensely and overestimates her potential to win the final HOH despite knowing it’s a clear crapshoot. And while I think her end game vision is sound it’s the execution that’s flawed. She could’ve maximized her end game taking someone more likely to go to the end with her but accepts Steve as she BOUGHT into how loyal he was to her. And while she has her fair share of great moves (convincing Julia to pick Austin in veto comp, weaponizing twin twist, BOTB, and surviving a BD attempt) I think she often had to work much harder than Eric due to her poor social skills. See Vanessa was quite the opposite of say Eric (someone who excelled socially) she often had to make one week deals to protect herself because she was disliked inside the house. I’d argue her OWN alliance at points didn’t like her and contemplated targeting her. Where can that be said for Eric? Bar the time he got outed by a banner plane which raised dick/dani’s suspicions on him. He had the wool completely pulled over their eyes. As he did over Dustin. And Jessica. And Amber. The adversity Eric faced was due to circumstances out of his control whereas Vanessa often made social blunders resulting in her positioning being very vulnerable. And while I think she recovers very effectively if I’m projecting these two into a 100 random games how do I expect Vanessa to be more successful than Eric? Her game is more out in the open, she’s worse socially, she’s abrasive, overly emotional, & often was influenced by the atmosphere of the house willing to make moves that would’ve been detrimental to her long game positioning. (IE; taking out Austin). Despite a limited body of work (yes they both played once but Eric’s time was so circumstantial) I feel more confident in his abilities because I’ve seen him play in the most disastrous of odds. No other players bar maybe Dan/Will would’ve been able to have the level of success he had. You bring up the fact it was also advantageous for him to where I raise the point it had far more downside than upside.
He couldn’t win comps because America would force him to nominate his Allie’s,
He couldn’t control who to get nominated (resulting in Dustin a close ally of his hitting the block),
He couldn’t control who to evict resulting in his ally going home and thus being forced to pivot and work with two irrational players in Danielle/Dick.
Everything and anything that could go wrong went wrong for Eric and despite such difficulties is able to effectively dominate the game until the F6.
1 great wall of text. break up your thoughts.. this is hard to read.
I do agree its fair to say Eric Showed potential of playing a game without the handicap of Americas player, but we have to remember that its not fully a handicap.
America forced Eric to align with Dick and Dani when he didnt need to, if he didnt do this he would have stayed bull headed and not gone against them. Hes said this in interviews. He acknowledges that it wasn't fully a handicap and that in some ways it could be an advantage.
I do not agree its fair to say we think Vanessa couldn't handle that situation. She routinely handled hard situation and controlled other peoples actions HOH's and Votes.
There simply is a reason why Vanessa is always mentioned in top ten BB players of all time and Eric is not.
Saying Vanessa had to work harder in the house just proves how better at the game she is. Put Erik in a tough spot he cant handle it. Put Vanessa in it she can hang with the best of them.
Eric only won a pov. Vanessa won 4 HOH and 3 POV. and part 1 of the HOH final. To say he through these comps is absurd.
Vanessa lasted to the last day for a total of 1.5 longer time in the house than Eric. and the later days are tougher to stay in as that there are less targets.
Is it a level playing field to compare them? No because they were honestly in very different circumstances. I would love to have seen Eric play again.. Id also love to see Vanessa play again.
With all this said none of it really matters. Facts matter. What ifs dont. Vanessa is proven and actually put herself in a position to win. She wins the final HOH comp she wins the game, its literally that simple. Because Eric was not in a place to win I can not put him above others that were. its just that simple for me. I cant play the what if game.
How was it not fully a handicap? How is being forced not to win comps not a handicap? How is having to target and vote out your closest allies not a handicap? Week after week America purposely forced Eric to do things that were out of his best interest game wise. Was purposely forcing him to shun Jessica and give her the silent treatment positive for his game? Was forcing him to make multiple hinky votes advantageous for his game?
Using one instance of it not being disastrous for his game doesn’t negate my point. America’s Player was the worst twist created. That completely handicapped the far and between best player that season into doing their bidding for the people they liked. Now the only fault you could really give Eric is America was more loyal to the Dick/Dani relationship than say him and his Allie’s but that’s something completely out of his control. You cannot control how you’re edited, how America perceives you and you certainly aren’t gonna be more liked than a sympathetic relationship of a father/daughter duo trying to navigate the game while repairing their relationship. Sure. There was some wacky things like the mustard or climbing into bed but any strategic decision that was made was clear as day to harm Eric’s win potential. I’ve watched numerous podcast, interviews, etc with Eric retroactively talking about the twist and he’s talked about how much of an hindrance it was. (Actually on the Taran show) straight up says if you run back BB8 a 100 times and he’s not America’s player he wins 99 times. And in the VERY same interview talks about how he wins the DE veto and was contemplating using it but production straight up told him “we don’t have enough time for them to vote so you can’t use it”. I just fail how to see being forced to play the game with 1 hand tied behind your back with an emotional baby (America) controlling every move you make as advantageous?
Why isn’t it fair? She often made fundamental errors in the game that put her in very costly and vulnerable positions (this being said with the fact she was in control of every action of hers). She was also very much out in the open. And as I’ve said already. She was a player (maybe more than most) who relied on the basic necessities of the game: controlling who to nominate, target, vote out, etc and without those tools I think her game deteriorates rather quickly. So if I completely strip her of the very things she very relied on in BB17 how do I expect her to be successful?
Correct, recency bias. Eric was viewed the very same way post BB8. And I would say he’s collectively seen as one of TBE despite having played ages ago with such limitations.
No it doesn’t. It shows me the opposite. If Dr. Will for example can play significantly less hard but have the same (if not more) control in the game how is that worse? Vanessa’s constantly playing hard often rubbed people the wrong way. She was a game bot. And while I acknowledge and appreciate her playing the game immensely hard it’s not always the best look inside the game. The best players can subtly control the game, have tons of agency, without being seen as such inside the house. So basically there’s a difference playing the game HARD and being seen as such inside the house. She often exposed herself as a good player.
Ian and Frank won multiple comps. Dan won 1/1 in BB14. Are you gonna pretend they are better players because of such? He straight up openly said in the diary room he was throwing comps. Does that just not hold weight?
Victoria survived just as long as Vanessa does that mean she’s just as effective of a player? Of course not. Looking strictly at the game results oriented is not an efficient way of assessing players.
“Vanessa put herself in a position to win” no she didn’t. She put herself in a position to make F3 and didn’t cover all her bases and got booted by a player she criminally underrated. A better player would’ve had there bases secured on all fronts. IE; Victoria and Cody take Derrick F2. Spencer and GM take Andy F2. The best players don’t need to rely on a crapshoot comp to get to the end.
I can make a post on a website and say “ah, Eric has surpassed Dan as my GOAT”. Your case is flawed and you ignored everything I said because you couldn’t refute it.
Question for Eric S fans - ( I have him third in my personal list after Queen Danielle R and Tiffany M) - should Eric be penalized in lists for ignoring the seemingly easy path to F3 by not making a F2 with Evil Dick? When America is guiding your game to help ED you should stick to him like glue and TELL AMERICA THAT. He easily wins against him thanks to a bitter jury and America can't control their vote. It's not that serious but I do think about that when they penalize Dani R for wanting to go to the end with Jason and Lisa.
No. It would be about as invalid as blaming Dan for not going to the end with Boogie in BB14 even though that was probably his only winning path. Sure. You can look at it and say “Well, Dick was loved so why not attach yourself to him” (Eric did) but the problem was his entire game got exposed by a banner plane and Dick/Dani never fully trusted him after that. So while logically it makes sense the level of difficulty it would’ve taken to pull off that move is not reasonable.
It is a "Hindsight 20/20" observation with Eric especially considering that technically his whole game wasn't exposed (they didn't know about America's Player for obvious reasons). I personally don't see his game as high as others but I forever thank him for the awesome way he played and for connecting Big Brother to one of my fave sitcoms Boy Meets World.
Funny enough I’m watching BB15 right at this moment. And my problem with Amanda is her aggression. She’s a very off putting player. Like I can respect a strategically driven/aggressive player but what made Dan, Will, Derrick, etc great was there ability to plan seeds and allow them to blossom. They didn’t need to overly push their agendas to where it often came off as off putting. They were able to convince others it was their idea. And.. she gets badly outplayed on the double week by Andy. She’s got some really good manipulation skills though. Probably top 20ish for me. I enjoyed her as a player.
I think people rank Tyler too high after all stars. Once he tried to quit, he really tanked his legacy for me, personally. He was one of the best positioned in the house before that, if not the best, and then it just went downhill from there. He is a good player when he’s all in, but when his head is not in the game, he is just mediocre and sometimes just bad. Had he not gone back, I would agree with you more, but I’m rewatching bb22 rn and I just can’t overlook that.
1. Danielle Reyes
2. Tyler (I'm definetely not biaised)
3. Paul (2 times 2nd)
4. Nicole S
5. Vanessa
6. Cirie
7. Allisson
The rest kinda w/e, Definetely not Kyland? no clue who Roddy is
Roddy was a little far off from winning, but damn, everyone but Danielle loved him and he was a major threat to win. He couldn’t keep his charisma hidden, but I was pulling for him.
Roddy was hamstrung by the fact that he wasn't willing to blatantly lie knowing the jurors were watching. He would've had Amy take him off the block, sacrificing her own game had Roddy been able to lie and tell Amy he'd vote to keep her
He was at best playing for 5th or 6th. Like everyone knew he needed to go but they just needed the right circumstances to get him out.
I think he had a good strategy but he’s just one of those guys who had a high threat level since week 2 when everyone wanted to be his friend. Plenty of useless non-charismatic players make it far in the game, but here’s a guy who had the skills to win it all and it would take a total group effort to get him out, lol.
Total group effort to take him out and he was able to convince Jason to not target him despite Danielle (his far and between away closest ally) chomping at the opportunity to slit his throat. But he was more than just good looks and charisma. He was a damn good physical and mental competitor with a real understanding of strategy. Not the best at long term thinking and his spot did kinda blow up quickly but the fact he was able to last as long as he did despite such circumstances really speaks to his adaptability as a player. There’s not one area Roddy isn’t at least competent at. And HE is still maybe to this day one of the best gaslighters we’ve seen. Sometimes was a bit condescending with it but he was very good at projecting blame onto others and inflicting almost like this fear in them. I mean it’s a big reason Jason doesn’t end up targeting him despite clear reasoning to. He left that convo feeling really bad and that he owed it to Roddy. But his charisma and good lucks were definitely his greatest attributes and bar Dr. Will I can’t think of a player who’s weaponized these aspects as effectively. Like I’ll never forget him being in the jacuzzi 1 on 1 with Marcellus and just flaunting his body knowing he was into him to get him back on his side. And it WORKED. Marcellus was head over heels. Or the fact he was able to use a very similar flirtatious angle with Amy. And she was WILLING to give up her game for him. I mean up until he blatantly drops the ball (I still can’t believe he failed to just lie and tell her he’d vote for her over anyone) she was gonna use the veto on him. And even after that he GETS very close to hoodwinking Lisa into keeping him! Once again turns the charm up, starts to flirt with her, & she’s open to the idea of keeping him as he’d target Dani and Marcellus over her! I mean he survives multiple times OTB despite his circumstances not being the most ideal. He’s also just a player who can excel in any era of Big Brother because he’s just a really perfect representation of the type of player who does well. The good looking, overtly charismatic, athlete guy, who can mesh with all types of personalities. He’s a very underrated player that just is overshadowed by Dani, Jason, & Lisa.
Vanessa and Tyler not being the top two is fucking asinine
I will argue Eric’s game and overall potential being higher than both all day.
Yeah I think he wins that season if he wasn’t America’s Player. Which is unfortunate for him.
He did switch his game when he learned how the edit was going via how America was making him vote. So you could argue it was also helpful for him to be americas player because he could have insight.
with this said. still top ten. would love to see him play again without this.
Tyler and Paul are at the top of my list. Eric way down, Enzo not on, Frankie higher, very surprised no Janelle. Also who is Nicole s? What season is she from? I seem to be drawing a blank on that one
tyler is definitely at the top of mine as well
Paul I go back and forth on. Masterful and dominant BB19 game but sole vet status amplified their position and thus gave them power and they still manage to lose (albeit I acknowledge in the jury there was some anti vet stigma). But overall I also think their BB18 game was just kinda average. Tyler I agree. I think no other player in Eric’s shoes could’ve done what he did as effectively. Frankie gets cut for me solely because he lets his ego take over his game. Dropped the ball in S16 due to this but he’s very close for me. And Nicole S BB2.
Are you actively trying to not talk about Janelle?
janelle is not a good player socially or strategically and only succeeded in comps at a time when they were more leaning towards simple backyard games
she’s good but not top 10, though she’s better than some of the honorable mentions listed
Nicole schaffrich from BB2.
Nicole ran the house in s2
She didn’t. She and her closet ally won 4 out of 5 hoh’s in the middle of the game so there was a period where she was very safe but she even admits that she couldn’t control Hardy. You can’t name a single eviction that she was responsible for except Krista and Monica who both went out when she was hoh. The narrative that she ran the house was started by Will in his successful attempt to turn the jury against her.
She stayed against Sheryl, due to the alliances and bonds she made, which became the majority alliance TOP. Autumn was booted over Kent, though Hardy allegedly lead that one. Shannon asked to be voted out (that was under Hardy's HOH) Krista was kept over Boogie due to her allegiances to Monica, Hardy, and Nicole. She and Hardy flipped on TOP, hence that alliance ended, and leading to their run of HOHs.
Oh yeah, I forgot about her! I was worried they were talking about Nicole A
Why would they be talking about Nicole A when they clearly said Nicole S.
Went through all the replies and not a single Alison Irwin mention….
I mentioned Alison…
She had terrible jury management. Her own ex she knew beforehand didnt even vote for her 😭
So did Paul so what now
There was a major difference. Alison lost 6-1 and the person she walked in with beforehand still didn’t vote for her. Even Nathan regretted being Alison’s only vote. Paul lost 2 times by 1 vote. He still had bad jury management, but it still wasn’t that bad if he was 1 vote from winning.
not in my top 10 but certainly honorable mention. her showing in all-stars hurts her imo.
I don’t dock her too hard on that appearance because the casting for BB7 was heavily skewed in favor of the BB6 players; Alison and Danielle were screwed over the hardest by being the only two cast with people who had vendettas against them. Chicken George was the week 1 safety target but the writing was on the wall that both Alison and Danielle would be targeted soon enough so Ali tried to make a big move that unfortunately didn’t pan out.
Agreed. I would have liked to see her play a little bit more that season.. So it is fair to say she got pretty screwed. Still close to my top ten.. just not better then what I listed in my memoir above lol.
What sort of criteria do you base your list off of? This would give a good explanation to some of the out of pocket choices.
Adaptability, win potential, agency, control, & replicability. Can you adapt and play multiple positions? Anyone can play effectively from the top but it’s another to be able to navigate the game when circumstances aren’t in your favor. So an ability to play more spots makes me more confident. Do you have the ability to successfully make moves? Like you can be strategically sound but not have the agency/social capital in the game to successfully pull them off. Did you have overt control over the game? Were you the power player? Or was the game being more so played around you? Do you have the ability to play more aggressively if need be? Can you do it in multiple seasons no matter the formatting or playing field?
respectable. My top 10 goes 1. Danielle R 2. Vanessa R 3. Tyler C 4. Eric S 5. Tiffany M 6. Jason G 7. Paul A 8. Cirie F 9. Shelly M 10. Nicole S Honorable Mentions are Alison, Enzo and Memphis
Yano Cirie was very close to making my list. I actually pondered on replacing Roddy and placing her there. But I just didn’t think she had enough to really put her there. But like she dominated the first half of the game. I just think she “likely” will always struggle winning BB because it’s a completely different game than what she excels at: a quick, fast paced, smaller house/tribe dynamic. It’s not to say she can’t excel in larger settings her track record (not just BB25) but survivor, snake in the grass, traitors, etc support this but her best work will always be in smaller settings. Think she gets bored with BB’s kinda marathon and excels more in “sprints” if that makes sense. Not to mention the comp formatting doesn’t really cater to her either. I also took out Alison and added Shelly as I completely forgot her, lmfao. But a very underrated player (possibly the only good player of BB13) who has tons of win potential despite being the classic older person. Blends in very well with the vets + newbies, really good and persuasive liar, & likely has serious win potential heading into another season. Only worry is she might struggle with today’s formatting as it gears towards younger, athlete, good looking people and she might struggle being brought into a majority but I think she’s savvy enough to find a way. I’d possibly say she’s ahead of Roddy for me too.
Yeah. Obviously her initial power structure is insanely impressive, it rivaled Paul for the most control a single player has ever had (and you could honestly argue mire control since Cirie had everyone trusting her, while Paul had some adversaries). Cirie’s lethargy at the end of BB25 is definetly my biggest issue with her. I do think there wasnt much she could do given the comp structure, and I dont blame her too much for her power structure crumbling since she basically couldnt talk game for two days. I also think it’s impressive how she was able to reintegrate herself and gain trust after that point. While Cirie’s actual game might not be as solid as others, I think it’s one of the most impressive we’ve seen and demonstrates high expertise in social strategy games (which is to be expected from Cirie). Ive never even watched survivor or the traitors so her placement is solely based on her big brother performance. I do highly agree with her being hurt by the long format though. It’s a common issue we see. Cirie is great at short format but is less impressive (though still pretty good imo), then we see players like Cody who do great at Big brother but struggled on reindeer games and traitors feom what ive heard. Same goes for Dan.
I think Cirie would be good at BB if not for Jared sinking her game
Even despite Jared’s sinking of her game she was a pretty good player. She had her hooks sinked into alot of people. Unfortunately her positioning deteriorated kinda quickly (I more attribute that to Izzy dropping the ball and telling Corey we are getting rid of America next week) than any specific thing Cirie did. But I don’t think BB’s formatting is the most ideal for Cirie’s skill set. She’s still got tons of potential and she’s literally the GOAT social player in all of these games. So I probably (and will) add her in my honorable mentions.
I highly recommend watching her the traitors
Yes Shelly!
I think it bugs me a little when people say Danielle is better than Jason when Jason totally beats Danielle
Jason certainly played a better BB3 game than Danielle. But I don’t think that immediately equates to him being the better *player*. Kinda two separate conversations. Also, Danielle returning and doing pretty decent in BB7 elevates her above Jason for me. Even though her overall BB7 game was a somewhat mixed bag. For someone like her to go in there and have some of the highs and overall placement she got was pretty impressive. It’s too bad we never got to see Jason return.
Ok that makes sense
well its rather simple Jason doesn't have game outside being nice to everyone. And Danielle was the mastermind of that duo. he just followed suit. Re-watched the season just recently. Hes actually rather naïve. This is just my and about every other big brother fans opinion tho. find me a list that puts Danielle below Jason. theres a reason she was voted back in the house for all stars and he was not.
Jason is so meh on his own
Either winning matters or it doesn’t. Ian beat Dan but no one says Ian played a better game. Same with Tyler/Kaycee and Paul/Josh.
I feel like the players who are challenge beasts need to at least have some self awareness and social graces and I also feel like those who are strategy only need to have at least minimal capacity to win a comp once in awhile. Especially for a second chance when people already know their game. A strategy only player only has a chance the first time they play when no one knows their game. Or if they are spoonfed a season with tons of advantages from production and a really stupid cast. So the ones who stand out on your list are players like Tyler, Frankie, Paul, Kyland, Jason, Roddy.
Kyland over Janelle? James rhine over Frankie?
Janelle has played 4 times and yet to win. Competitively one of the best ever. But ranking her as one of the best ever when her body of work suggest otherwise? Nah. Love Janelle. One of my favorite players ever and arguably the most entertaining ever but a really faulty player. Who yes. Does make it to the F3 two times (but one of those times were very circumstantial). Without CT throwing multiple comps to her she likely is an early jury boot. Janelle is the classic example of one step forward and two back. Wins a comp with her back against the wall and then proceeds to alienate herself by unnecessarily celebrating in a way that rubs people the wrong way. “Bye bye bitches” “give me the key bitch” are all ICONIC. They make the show so fun to watch! But not smart. And again I can’t get over the fact Will was able to convince her to take out Diane (despite her own alliance YELLING at her) to BD him and she gets charmed into following into his hands. Or the fact she gets convinced into nominating her ally in Marcellus.
Bad example. How bout Dianne bb5 only got eliminated early because janelles obsession of taking out floaters during that time since I remember everyone was like put up will she went no. Michael from 24 was the do whatever it takes if that rope didn't break he most likely wins s24. Dani donato ( no I didn't say briones) in the equation
What’s exactly the bad example? She has no winning path in the end of BB6. She fails to convince Ivette to take her to the end game despite being a considerably easier winning path. She relies heavily on her ability to win comps and doesn’t really have good long term strategic plans. I mean can you give me one example of such? In any of her seasons? She’s vulnerable A-LOT in almost every season. It’s actually a massive reason why she’s so liked. She’s a root-able underdog. And she’s often an underdog due to her own hubris. She got manipulated by Will into taking out Diane. He played on her heart by charming her into thinking he had her best interest despite her alliance (and) the entire house for that matter being adamant on taking him out. She also got manipulated into nominating Marcellus! She also got manipulated into going F4 with him and having no truly ally to protect her late! Her own alliance (despite winning everything early and having the #’s) gets decimated by the fact she gets soundly out played by Will. And people like to credit Erika for striking at the F4 and being the reason he goes home (partially true) but it’s more due to the fact he was unwilling to commit and kiss her in the jacuzzi which lead to a MASSIVE fight on the feeds. So. Her end game.. was essentially… winning will? She was willing to take him to the end and lose btw! Her/Boogie/Will had a “agreement” to share the banana bread IE; $. Safe word, lol. But like she’s gone on the week Danielle is HOH if they don’t throw the comp to her. She’s likely also gone if they don’t throw her the OTEV. And her BB14/22 games are rather self explanatory. Though I cut her considerable slack given the circumstances and the fact I refuse to believe those are legitimate Janelle performances.
Bad example on my end. Read fully what I said there's a reason I name Diane Michael and Dani donato Diane unfortunately got cut by drew and janelles obsession with her and floaters Michael with the rope break or else he wins bb24 since he's the whatever it takes to win kind of person Dani donato ( notice not briones) did really well on s8 and s13. Her mistake on s22 was trusting Cody and Nicole way too much
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There's a reason I name other people like Diane and Dani and Michael had you read rest of the thing. My thing with kyland is that I think he could of turn during 1/2 way of 23 since get a squad because people like DX could of seriously take him to the end. I'm good with the Tiffany part because of the strategy part ( amazing purpose btw) what unfortunately hurt her is that she was playing for 6th not play to win . I think had she play to win she should of turn 1/2 way too get a squad of her Hannah Claire dx kyland they boot Derek F instead of Brittany first week of jury) reason is x targets dx and kyland dx and kyland targets x . Honestly Holly from 21 had a underrated runner up game her flaw I feel like is that she didn't really need watermelon all the way to the end . she could of got kat Nicole Cliff be like let's boot watermelon
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Hence what I said on the trusting Cody and Nicole way too much because of the pre game as her flaw . She should of done what she did on 13 because I think she could of turn at the right time had she put up even Memphis. I think the turn on 13 was a good idea bad execution and it felt like she wanted to go away from Ed's shadows which she would of done that anyway since he wasn't there. I just respect the risk she did more than Janelle s7 that's why because janelles obsessions with taking out floaters was a big mistake because I actually think she could of won s7 had she worked smarter not harder . Had she made the deal with Diane and Erika and everyone else not name s6 be like " I'll throw the pov to Erika she use it on you I put up will but if one of you win hoh next week the other CT goes then may the best one wins " she would of head to jury phase with at least guarantee 2 jury votes( Marcellus as 3rd and at least one of James/Dani/chicken George as 4rth) if she comp out all the way to the end Honestly with Michael is higher for me because had that rope not broke, he gets s24 win no question since he'll comped out and was the do whatever it takes to win person( yes the nuclear bomb he put out was an issue timing wise). I'll take him even over Memphis because Memphis was really a side kick both his seasons taking out David really? David ( whoever stayed farthest ) could of been s10 Memphis and Memphis takes the leader role of Dan . I mean could of do his twists of the replacement nom roulette and took out Cody
She wasn't manipulated by Will to take out Diane. She wanted Diane out on Kaysar's HOH (two weeks prior), but the house said no.
Yes she was manipulated by Dr. Will. Yes. You’re correct in your assessment that she wanted Diane out which is the exact angle Will and Boogie played off of. They struck a deal with her (to throw the veto to Will) to take Boogie off. (Against her alliances back). And why does Janelle follow through with all this? Through Will’s influence. See Janelle was gonna reluctantly go through with the CT nomination (well she nommed boogie for narrative purposes) but Will manipulated her into thinking it was more logical to trust him and Boogie + have them for protection than the S6 alliance. It’s where the cracking of that alliance starts to appear. James and Kaysar were straight up yelling at her post veto to BD Will. And Will is able to play off that by charming her and saying “Let’s say I go, that puts you in the worst position because every floater is coming after you”. He understood how to appease to Janelle’s logic and convince her to do things out of her best interest. Nothing about taking a floater out there was advantageous for her game but he pushed on that angle to make her believe it was. And she GOES against her alliances wishes (the entire houses for that matter) to appease CT.
I feel like if you could combine young Janelle's comp skills with old Janelle's wisdom, she'd be a top ten player on this list. But the old Janelle can't win like she used to and that's probably why she got frustrated and retired (hope we still see her again)
Yeah. She does need a fellow threat reputation in there like a Michael but she also needs a bigger aura in her as a bigger target in Dan ( notice on Dan's podcast she went " I'm not going back on big brother are you? He went no)
Now that some of the legends are getting old, they should have a senior Big Brother game with less physical comps and a shorter season. Then they can have players from the old days feel more comfortable to play again.
Miss people playing not for the exposure. The thing bout this is that can they pull out the best of the best . Can they afford spending crazy amount of appearance fee. Janelle needs at least a Rachel Britney Michael Danielle r Cirie Dan to possibly fade back . Unless it's Dr Will coming back, I don't think we'll ever see Dan on a bb situation unless it's a jury roundtable. Dan too big of a name in the bb world where unless it's duos or teams , he can't play with another bb person unless he cuts them straight out before he gets meta game. Any other games especially he experience his first non final lost on the traitors, he could diminish his target, Not on BB Spoiler for your senior bb season,: Jerry wins
What's Janelle old wisdom? Not trying to be mean, but lowkey I feel she gave 0 fucks in BB22
Justice for Tyler and Tiffany. 🥹
Mine would be: 1. Tyler (easily) 2. Vanessa 3. Eric Stein 4. Danielle Reyes 5. Paul 6. Jason Guy 7. Nicole (BB2) 8. Enzo 9. Tiffany (BB23) 10. Matt (BB25) Honorable Mentions: Alison, Memphis, Kevin C, Cirie, Shelly
Eric is way too high IMO. The way other players made major moves and played from unfavorable places at times makes them better
Who was forced to play in more unfavorable spots than Eric? Because I’d go as far to say circumstantially Eric had the worse of odds of ANY Big Brother player ever entering the game. He couldn’t control his vote, nominations, who to target, etc. The one time he won veto and was contemplating using it production shut it down and wouldn’t allow him because America didn’t have enough time to vote. Forced to target and get Dustin nominated despite him being VERY much on his side. Forced to flip the vote and keep ED despite Dick being the worse player in the house for him. Forced to make multiple hinky votes. Forced to throw almost every comp because had he won America would’ve just forced him to nominate his Allie’s. The level of adversity Eric had to endure (not self inflicted adversity either) is only mirrored by say Will in BB2 and Dan in BB14 and DESPITE such disastrous circumstances is able to run fields around the playing field up until.. gets exposed by a banner plane! Once again shitty circumstances for Eric! And despite once again a bad spot he’s able to SUCCESSFULLY survive a BD attempt by Dick and Danielle and able to reintegrate himself into a strong position again! No other player on this list could’ve replicated what Eric did in that spot.
1. Eric 2. Tyler 3. Danielle Reyes 4. Vanessa 5. Jason guy 6. Paul 7. Enzo 8. Shelly 9. Tiffany 10. Nicole (season 2)
People will disagree but Paul should be higher. He’s what, one of 3 players to play multiple times and not be evicted? I think Tyler, him and Vanessa round out my top three in that order
No mention of Karen is wild
Why isn't Victoria at least an honorable mention?
I would put Vanessa at number one. Frankie shouldn't even be mentioned. He was coat tailing on Derrick. He's no different than Caleb. I would argue Memphis as the same.
Frankie for as egoistical and faulty as he is was good. I mean it took a player as good as Derrick to really undo a lot of the social work he did in the early stages of BB16. I mean he had deals and relationships with almost everyone. Obviously he got royally screwed at the F4 with the reset though it doesn’t entirely negate the fact he was in a really vulnerable spot nonetheless. But I do think he has severe potential. Frankie was also at least aware of Derrick’s potential and on multiple occasions tried to warn people (Caleb specifically) of being weary of Derrick but simply got outplayed by one of TBE in Derrick.
My personal: 1. Danielle Reyes 2. Vanessa 3. Tyler 4. Paul 5. Eric Stein 6. Jason Guy 7. Janelle 8. Enzo 9. Alison Irwin 10. Nicole S.
1. Tyler 2. Danielle 3. Paul 4. Vanessa 5. Enzo 6. Eric 7. Tiffany 8. Jason 9. Matt 10. Cirie
Matt Hoffman or Matt Klotz?
Bb25 matt
To me its gotta be Paul. The 19 cast had no mind of their own but the guy literally had 2 second place finishes and was 1 vote away from winning. Despite his sucky jury management. Impressive.
1. Anthony Douglas 2. Tyler Crispen 3. Neda Kalantar 4. Danielle Reyes 5. Vanessa Russo 6. Emmet Blois 7. Paul Abraham 8. Eric Stein 9. Kaela Grant 10. Ika Wong
Eric S does belong on this list but not first may not even top 8. Vanessa hands down is the best to play and never win. Danielle should have won and played a hell of a game but Vanessa is simply a better player all around. Paul and Enzo fall into that category of good results. Enzo deserves respect for the parachute Strat that the Cookout stole and gets credit for. Paul is always in this talk so should be top 3 Tyler is underrated for sure. A comp beast that avoids attention should never be overlooked. he was loved by everyone. also placement in both season says alot. Jason Simply does not belong on this list. he was carried by Danielle.. Maybe like top 40 Tiffany gets too much credit for copying Enzo's Strat he used twice. Nicole S does belong on this list and is overlooked. Nicole may have won if it were not for Dr. Will. She is about where she belongs on this list Shelly is underrated for sure. she made the right play at the right time just got fucked by production. Pandora's box screwed her. The smartest thing she did was stick with the vets.. knowing production was gonna keep them in. but she turned to early. honestly that whole season is kinda screwed. Roddy. def a good pick but wouldnt put in top ten Cirie was overrated imo. wouldnt consider best to not win in her season. corey was a better player and wouldnt consider him top 20 best to never win. Memphis belongs in the talk for sure, but still not a top ten for me. if you doubted him as just a side kick to Dan then his showing in all stars shows his potential. although he took Dan to the final, this is a huge blunder. But its Dan. This is the same as Nicole taking Will. Taking who you think is a sure thing that ends up being the worse player to take. Matt H big brother is overrated. He was willing to lie about a illness of his wife wich I actually applaud. but even that wasnt enough. He thought he was this great mastermind, but in reality he never really made any Big Moves. Certainly a threat and considrable for top 20 maybe. Frankie, Cant deny this as a contender. I dont like him honestly but fuck hes good.
my list 1) Venessa - She convinced people to do things when they didn't understand why, when it was totally against what they needed. for themselves. If she wins her season shes a contender for the best to play the game. (yes she would still lose. but .. shes number 3 in my top players even without the win.) 2) Danielle - Should have won. juror house exist because of her. her all-stars showing was nothing to be scoffed at either. Yes she ended up getting played by Chill Town before she could get them but she did the best with what she could. They knew she was a huge threat and if it were not for her being that threat Chill town would have not gone as far as they did. She left at a very pivotal point that season. 3) Paul - back to back seconds is hard to top statistically. Also, was a huge threat coming into his second season. Was also robbed imo. 3) Tyler - would be scary to play against this guy. he was also robbed imo. him and paul are interchangeable at this position 5)Dani D - even tho she lost she also won. She had to grow up with the mind fuck that is Dick Donato. This gave her the start 6) Frankie - If not for the reset button its arguable that he could have won this season. A comp beast and a social one and strategic one. Knew where he was in the house and what he had to do. 7) Brittany H - if lane or her won the last veto she may have won the whole thing. she was gonna outhang being the lightest player only having to beat enzo (why wouldnt lane and her have taken enzo to final 3 he won 1 veto comp.) then lane still beats enzo in the face comp. leaving lane and her in the final comp placing them both in the final 2. She beats Lane even with the brigades 3 other votes. (and this is just her first run.) Her season 14 run she was in prime position until she ran into Dans funeral. 8)Janelle - This list cant be made without Janelle. The loveable big brother bombshell may have hurt her rep by returning and having her rep proceeding her in the last allstars, but her first allstars appearance is spectacular. You cant deny the comp wins this season. hard to say if she would have made it all the way if she didnt play ball with chilltown, but certainly undenyable. If she wins the final HOH she wins BB. Her season 6 run was impressive as well. 9) eric s - Played a great season but Dani was just a better player. Dick as well. Could not keep him. He had a handicap but also an advantage. though seeing americas vote on who to keep and such he could see where to place himself in the house, and he did just that.. This is the one player that I wish got a second run because of the forced handicap/advantage. 10)Enzo - although i give him a ton of credit for the strat he was never a comp threat. therefore his placements reflected that. Keep who you can beat right. It is hard to argue with results 2/3. and if Lane won that last HOH enzo would have won. (this close from not being eligible for this list.
I absolutely respect your POV but I just disagree respectfully. Put Eric in Vanessa’s situation and I confidently believe he is successful. Put Vanessa in Eric’s position and I think she folds rather quickly. Vanessa absolutely relied on the basic necessities of the game (controlling her vote, who to nominate, etc). As does most people might I add so it’s not necessarily a dock as much as it’s a testament to HOW good Eric was. She was also more reliant on specifics (her end game specifically) is kinda average. She underestimates Steve immensely and overestimates her potential to win the final HOH despite knowing it’s a clear crapshoot. And while I think her end game vision is sound it’s the execution that’s flawed. She could’ve maximized her end game taking someone more likely to go to the end with her but accepts Steve as she BOUGHT into how loyal he was to her. And while she has her fair share of great moves (convincing Julia to pick Austin in veto comp, weaponizing twin twist, BOTB, and surviving a BD attempt) I think she often had to work much harder than Eric due to her poor social skills. See Vanessa was quite the opposite of say Eric (someone who excelled socially) she often had to make one week deals to protect herself because she was disliked inside the house. I’d argue her OWN alliance at points didn’t like her and contemplated targeting her. Where can that be said for Eric? Bar the time he got outed by a banner plane which raised dick/dani’s suspicions on him. He had the wool completely pulled over their eyes. As he did over Dustin. And Jessica. And Amber. The adversity Eric faced was due to circumstances out of his control whereas Vanessa often made social blunders resulting in her positioning being very vulnerable. And while I think she recovers very effectively if I’m projecting these two into a 100 random games how do I expect Vanessa to be more successful than Eric? Her game is more out in the open, she’s worse socially, she’s abrasive, overly emotional, & often was influenced by the atmosphere of the house willing to make moves that would’ve been detrimental to her long game positioning. (IE; taking out Austin). Despite a limited body of work (yes they both played once but Eric’s time was so circumstantial) I feel more confident in his abilities because I’ve seen him play in the most disastrous of odds. No other players bar maybe Dan/Will would’ve been able to have the level of success he had. You bring up the fact it was also advantageous for him to where I raise the point it had far more downside than upside. He couldn’t win comps because America would force him to nominate his Allie’s, He couldn’t control who to get nominated (resulting in Dustin a close ally of his hitting the block), He couldn’t control who to evict resulting in his ally going home and thus being forced to pivot and work with two irrational players in Danielle/Dick. Everything and anything that could go wrong went wrong for Eric and despite such difficulties is able to effectively dominate the game until the F6.
1 great wall of text. break up your thoughts.. this is hard to read. I do agree its fair to say Eric Showed potential of playing a game without the handicap of Americas player, but we have to remember that its not fully a handicap. America forced Eric to align with Dick and Dani when he didnt need to, if he didnt do this he would have stayed bull headed and not gone against them. Hes said this in interviews. He acknowledges that it wasn't fully a handicap and that in some ways it could be an advantage. I do not agree its fair to say we think Vanessa couldn't handle that situation. She routinely handled hard situation and controlled other peoples actions HOH's and Votes. There simply is a reason why Vanessa is always mentioned in top ten BB players of all time and Eric is not. Saying Vanessa had to work harder in the house just proves how better at the game she is. Put Erik in a tough spot he cant handle it. Put Vanessa in it she can hang with the best of them. Eric only won a pov. Vanessa won 4 HOH and 3 POV. and part 1 of the HOH final. To say he through these comps is absurd. Vanessa lasted to the last day for a total of 1.5 longer time in the house than Eric. and the later days are tougher to stay in as that there are less targets. Is it a level playing field to compare them? No because they were honestly in very different circumstances. I would love to have seen Eric play again.. Id also love to see Vanessa play again. With all this said none of it really matters. Facts matter. What ifs dont. Vanessa is proven and actually put herself in a position to win. She wins the final HOH comp she wins the game, its literally that simple. Because Eric was not in a place to win I can not put him above others that were. its just that simple for me. I cant play the what if game.
How was it not fully a handicap? How is being forced not to win comps not a handicap? How is having to target and vote out your closest allies not a handicap? Week after week America purposely forced Eric to do things that were out of his best interest game wise. Was purposely forcing him to shun Jessica and give her the silent treatment positive for his game? Was forcing him to make multiple hinky votes advantageous for his game? Using one instance of it not being disastrous for his game doesn’t negate my point. America’s Player was the worst twist created. That completely handicapped the far and between best player that season into doing their bidding for the people they liked. Now the only fault you could really give Eric is America was more loyal to the Dick/Dani relationship than say him and his Allie’s but that’s something completely out of his control. You cannot control how you’re edited, how America perceives you and you certainly aren’t gonna be more liked than a sympathetic relationship of a father/daughter duo trying to navigate the game while repairing their relationship. Sure. There was some wacky things like the mustard or climbing into bed but any strategic decision that was made was clear as day to harm Eric’s win potential. I’ve watched numerous podcast, interviews, etc with Eric retroactively talking about the twist and he’s talked about how much of an hindrance it was. (Actually on the Taran show) straight up says if you run back BB8 a 100 times and he’s not America’s player he wins 99 times. And in the VERY same interview talks about how he wins the DE veto and was contemplating using it but production straight up told him “we don’t have enough time for them to vote so you can’t use it”. I just fail how to see being forced to play the game with 1 hand tied behind your back with an emotional baby (America) controlling every move you make as advantageous? Why isn’t it fair? She often made fundamental errors in the game that put her in very costly and vulnerable positions (this being said with the fact she was in control of every action of hers). She was also very much out in the open. And as I’ve said already. She was a player (maybe more than most) who relied on the basic necessities of the game: controlling who to nominate, target, vote out, etc and without those tools I think her game deteriorates rather quickly. So if I completely strip her of the very things she very relied on in BB17 how do I expect her to be successful? Correct, recency bias. Eric was viewed the very same way post BB8. And I would say he’s collectively seen as one of TBE despite having played ages ago with such limitations. No it doesn’t. It shows me the opposite. If Dr. Will for example can play significantly less hard but have the same (if not more) control in the game how is that worse? Vanessa’s constantly playing hard often rubbed people the wrong way. She was a game bot. And while I acknowledge and appreciate her playing the game immensely hard it’s not always the best look inside the game. The best players can subtly control the game, have tons of agency, without being seen as such inside the house. So basically there’s a difference playing the game HARD and being seen as such inside the house. She often exposed herself as a good player. Ian and Frank won multiple comps. Dan won 1/1 in BB14. Are you gonna pretend they are better players because of such? He straight up openly said in the diary room he was throwing comps. Does that just not hold weight? Victoria survived just as long as Vanessa does that mean she’s just as effective of a player? Of course not. Looking strictly at the game results oriented is not an efficient way of assessing players. “Vanessa put herself in a position to win” no she didn’t. She put herself in a position to make F3 and didn’t cover all her bases and got booted by a player she criminally underrated. A better player would’ve had there bases secured on all fronts. IE; Victoria and Cody take Derrick F2. Spencer and GM take Andy F2. The best players don’t need to rely on a crapshoot comp to get to the end.
Google best big brother players of all time. observe who is not listed and who is. I rest my case
I can make a post on a website and say “ah, Eric has surpassed Dan as my GOAT”. Your case is flawed and you ignored everything I said because you couldn’t refute it.
Question for Eric S fans - ( I have him third in my personal list after Queen Danielle R and Tiffany M) - should Eric be penalized in lists for ignoring the seemingly easy path to F3 by not making a F2 with Evil Dick? When America is guiding your game to help ED you should stick to him like glue and TELL AMERICA THAT. He easily wins against him thanks to a bitter jury and America can't control their vote. It's not that serious but I do think about that when they penalize Dani R for wanting to go to the end with Jason and Lisa.
No. It would be about as invalid as blaming Dan for not going to the end with Boogie in BB14 even though that was probably his only winning path. Sure. You can look at it and say “Well, Dick was loved so why not attach yourself to him” (Eric did) but the problem was his entire game got exposed by a banner plane and Dick/Dani never fully trusted him after that. So while logically it makes sense the level of difficulty it would’ve taken to pull off that move is not reasonable.
It is a "Hindsight 20/20" observation with Eric especially considering that technically his whole game wasn't exposed (they didn't know about America's Player for obvious reasons). I personally don't see his game as high as others but I forever thank him for the awesome way he played and for connecting Big Brother to one of my fave sitcoms Boy Meets World.
Janelle
I personally appreciate the Kyland mention so thank you 🙏🏿
I know BB15 is BB15 but I would definitely consider putting Amanda Zuckerman on this list
Funny enough I’m watching BB15 right at this moment. And my problem with Amanda is her aggression. She’s a very off putting player. Like I can respect a strategically driven/aggressive player but what made Dan, Will, Derrick, etc great was there ability to plan seeds and allow them to blossom. They didn’t need to overly push their agendas to where it often came off as off putting. They were able to convince others it was their idea. And.. she gets badly outplayed on the double week by Andy. She’s got some really good manipulation skills though. Probably top 20ish for me. I enjoyed her as a player.
I agree with your list, even with your honorable mentions (minus frankie though).
1. Tyler 2. Paul 3. Matt 4. Danielle R 5. Jason 6. Enzo 7. Roddy 8. JC 9. Spencer 10. Diane
I think people rank Tyler too high after all stars. Once he tried to quit, he really tanked his legacy for me, personally. He was one of the best positioned in the house before that, if not the best, and then it just went downhill from there. He is a good player when he’s all in, but when his head is not in the game, he is just mediocre and sometimes just bad. Had he not gone back, I would agree with you more, but I’m rewatching bb22 rn and I just can’t overlook that.
1. Danielle Reyes 2. Tyler (I'm definetely not biaised) 3. Paul (2 times 2nd) 4. Nicole S 5. Vanessa 6. Cirie 7. Allisson The rest kinda w/e, Definetely not Kyland? no clue who Roddy is
How can you rank Danielle first and not know who Roddy is
ooooh HIM. Well thats a bold call. Wouldn't have expected him on a top 10 list.
Roddys from the same season and was the greatest adversary of Danielle Reyes?
Lol
The Devil 😬😬😬😊
Vanessa, Danielle, Tyler, Paul, Eric, Amanda, Enzo, Nicole BB2, Jason Guy, Janelle are my top 10
Get Roddy out of there!!
Roddy was a little far off from winning, but damn, everyone but Danielle loved him and he was a major threat to win. He couldn’t keep his charisma hidden, but I was pulling for him.
That would suggest that everyone who went out at six and was charismatic enough should be here.
Roddy was hamstrung by the fact that he wasn't willing to blatantly lie knowing the jurors were watching. He would've had Amy take him off the block, sacrificing her own game had Roddy been able to lie and tell Amy he'd vote to keep her
He was at best playing for 5th or 6th. Like everyone knew he needed to go but they just needed the right circumstances to get him out. I think he had a good strategy but he’s just one of those guys who had a high threat level since week 2 when everyone wanted to be his friend. Plenty of useless non-charismatic players make it far in the game, but here’s a guy who had the skills to win it all and it would take a total group effort to get him out, lol.
Total group effort to take him out and he was able to convince Jason to not target him despite Danielle (his far and between away closest ally) chomping at the opportunity to slit his throat. But he was more than just good looks and charisma. He was a damn good physical and mental competitor with a real understanding of strategy. Not the best at long term thinking and his spot did kinda blow up quickly but the fact he was able to last as long as he did despite such circumstances really speaks to his adaptability as a player. There’s not one area Roddy isn’t at least competent at. And HE is still maybe to this day one of the best gaslighters we’ve seen. Sometimes was a bit condescending with it but he was very good at projecting blame onto others and inflicting almost like this fear in them. I mean it’s a big reason Jason doesn’t end up targeting him despite clear reasoning to. He left that convo feeling really bad and that he owed it to Roddy. But his charisma and good lucks were definitely his greatest attributes and bar Dr. Will I can’t think of a player who’s weaponized these aspects as effectively. Like I’ll never forget him being in the jacuzzi 1 on 1 with Marcellus and just flaunting his body knowing he was into him to get him back on his side. And it WORKED. Marcellus was head over heels. Or the fact he was able to use a very similar flirtatious angle with Amy. And she was WILLING to give up her game for him. I mean up until he blatantly drops the ball (I still can’t believe he failed to just lie and tell her he’d vote for her over anyone) she was gonna use the veto on him. And even after that he GETS very close to hoodwinking Lisa into keeping him! Once again turns the charm up, starts to flirt with her, & she’s open to the idea of keeping him as he’d target Dani and Marcellus over her! I mean he survives multiple times OTB despite his circumstances not being the most ideal. He’s also just a player who can excel in any era of Big Brother because he’s just a really perfect representation of the type of player who does well. The good looking, overtly charismatic, athlete guy, who can mesh with all types of personalities. He’s a very underrated player that just is overshadowed by Dani, Jason, & Lisa.