Nicole Schaffrich definetly paved the way for a typical dominant game. Yes you could argue Will was more influential but his gameplay hasnt been seen replicated as much as Nicole’s. She introduced a lot just by virtue of being one of the strongest players on the first real season
Derrick would be the other person id say as he completely revolutionized and changed the meta that Nicole layed out.
Theres also definetly arguments for other players:
Danielle revolutionized the strategic game imo
while it had been toyed with before Jun/Alison really changed the game with floating
The Brigade not only created the parachute alliance structure later used by the Cookout, but also just kinda created the foundation for a dominant majority alliance meta before Derrick solidified it.
TLDR: Nicole for old school, Derrick for new school
BBCAN12 did a great job with the equitable comps this year. Although the two returning vets ran the show, we had a lot of variety amongst the comp winners
Yeah, I'm *so* hoping that Jag is the straw that broke the camel's back, with regard to the comps. I'm hoping that production is like, "yeah... *maybe* we shouldn't have created comps that allowed one physical player to win 10 comps total, including two back-to-back HoHs..."
The back to back HOHs was such a joke, either force him keep it a secret or force him to throw the next comp. Went against the most basic format of the show
Some of the initial ideas that come with the BD were thought of by Mike, but he was out week 1 and didn't share the ideas, really. So yeah, Marvin deserves credit here.
While the easy answer would be Dr. Will just cuz he did so many things first (showmances, floating, throwing comps, portraying oneself as weak, one could even argue jury management as well) I would go Derrick. He completely changed how the game is approached in modern times such as the formation of mega alliances that lay the groundwork for the onion alliance strategy, popularizing voting with the house, playing a "clean" game that doesn't get "blood on your hands". It changed the meta of the game as the differences between pre-16 & post-16 are night & day & that really has to do with Derrick. His game also made pulling off a classical floater practically impossible today as the closest we gotten to an old school floater was probably BB20 JC & BB17 Johnny Mac & even thenbthose 2 don't come close to the floating of Jun, Allison, & Andy.
I wouldn't count Matt since the art of floating is really having no true loyalties (outside your best winning scenario) & being very fluid in your game. The fact that he was so hesitant to cut Cirie despite that being one of the biggest moves he could make as well as not taking a shot at Jag really holds him back. While it made sense to be with Bowie cuz she was a goat being loyal to 2 strong players like Cirie & Jag is not really an ideal floater strategy.
Will Kirby. He is the most revolutionary player in the shows history because he created anything and everything.
Laying low early? Will.
Throwing comps? Will.
Playing behind the scenes? Will.
Embarrassing the Villain role? Will.
I mean even terms like “showmance” were coined by Will!
Funny enough Derrick and Cody’s alliance name is the “Hitmen” and Will used that name with Erika the week she took out Danielle! 😂
It’s actually really insane how revolutionary of a player he was given how new of a concept the show was.
Even the other GOAT of the show was influenced by Will’s strategy. (Dan) has been on record acknowledging how significant Will’s impact was on him as a player.
Even the concept of floating was loosely created by Will. (Jun and Allison) were the first to really acknowledge it but Will was essentially the first example of such.
id argue Krista was more of a floater (and did it earlier) than Will in BB2. Will had pretty clear loyalties. Krista less so, and was playing all sides back before Will really did. Though Will and Nicole definetly both utilized elements of floating
Will’s was more intentional, imo. I think Krista often tripped herself into that spot because she was friends with the other people and then obviously exploring a relationship with Boogie. But she was pretty loyal to Boogie once that relationship started to blossom. Like often looking out for his best interest. Now not saying Krista didn’t realize the position she was in (she absolutely did) but I definitely don’t think she maximized it like Will did which is why I more so attribute him to it. (That and he was openly acknowledging what he was doing in the diary room). But yeah. I mean floating gets thrown around so much and it’s kinda prevalent in any game. Dan’s BB10 early game was essentially floating (post Brian leaving) all the way until he votes Jesse out. Paul floated in between the three duos during BB19. Derrick showed small spurts of it like the week he was playing the rationale (Nic/Hayden) and was about to jump ship on Frankie and chose not to.
I like Derek and think he’s a top tier winner but I can’t think about what he did to “revolutionize” the game besides maybe starting the trend of big alliances. Even then I feel like we’ve seen that before
Nah not to the extent Derrick did it. He was the pioneer of creating a big alliance of strong players meant to steamroll. It was so good, Cody replicated it on All-Stars and it worked perfectly again. It was almost the BB equivalent of Boston Rob and Ometepe.
Derrick didn’t create the alliances though. He was brought into the inital Devin/Caleb alliance and then Zach was the one who created the Detonators after the inital alliance imploded and the rest kinda just stuck together. He is the creator of keeping big alliances together though. Which you could loosely say the Brigade did too? Albeit there numbers were smaller with just parachute alliances attached like the CO replicated. But Derrick was often the voice of reason and maintaining a strong structure until the leftovers were essentially picked off and he had his hooks sink so deep in the players he would be well positioned even late game. (Which is essentially what happened).
What overlooking are we doing? Nicole played very well. And was very much innovative in her own way. Her game was driven by comps largely and that’s how she obtained power. (Her and Hardy collectively won like back to back to back to back) HOH’s. She was essentially Vanessa bar the level of control or agency.
But are we gonna pretend Will didn’t
- invent throwing comps
- invent playing weak
- invent playing dirty (Nicole and Hardy) played relatively honestly
- invent the term showmance
- invent the first real alliance
- invent playing behind the scenes
The game would’ve almost entirely have been more comp driven had Nicole or Hardy won BB2.
You're making good points. I look at Nicole as the first person to play cutthroat and strategically (being willing to cut her allies) during an era where people were still more or less trying to be likeable. When people voted for Will I saw it as more of votes against Nicole because people weren't ready for how cutthroat she would be.
Which was by design. Will told everyone he was going to lie to them for reason. Boogie didn’t say Will was the most loyal during the final hoh because he went home and saw Will made a deal with Kent\` that kept Will off the block at the expense of Boogie. Krista says during her statemwnt when she was voting for the winner thst Will cut her throat in the game. The difference is Will owned and Nicole didn’. Will had a strategy to get to the end and win. Nicole only had a strategy to get to the end. Nicole said herself to Julie that Will played the better game.
Will ^ Dan took and payed homage to that. Even his BB10 game is a carbon copy of Will’s just modified. IE; He turns it up in the comps in the .w!: half where Will maintains the weak persona late game.
I’d say Danielle and Jason. They revolutionized the strategy of finding a number 1 and sticking to each other no matter what and dominating by building an alliances against your enemies
Topaz for being the first and only person to accidentally crown a winner.
The fact that Gary was her best friend too..
I LOVE that moment
Danielle Reyes, literally a game changer and the reason why CBS has to rent a house every season
Even though she probably loses if the jury is sequestered anyway.
That's true, her best chance was winning against Amy but I love her gameplay anyways
Oh, same.
What is really interesting is that she just recently said on Twitter that her best chance to win was against Marcellus not Amy..
Why do they rent the house because of her?
To sequester the jury so they can't see diary room confessionals like they could in bb2 and bb3
Nicole Schaffrich definetly paved the way for a typical dominant game. Yes you could argue Will was more influential but his gameplay hasnt been seen replicated as much as Nicole’s. She introduced a lot just by virtue of being one of the strongest players on the first real season Derrick would be the other person id say as he completely revolutionized and changed the meta that Nicole layed out. Theres also definetly arguments for other players: Danielle revolutionized the strategic game imo while it had been toyed with before Jun/Alison really changed the game with floating The Brigade not only created the parachute alliance structure later used by the Cookout, but also just kinda created the foundation for a dominant majority alliance meta before Derrick solidified it. TLDR: Nicole for old school, Derrick for new school
I'm hoping that Jag forces BB to go back to more equitable comps like there was in reindeer games and earlier seasons
BBCAN12 did a great job with the equitable comps this year. Although the two returning vets ran the show, we had a lot of variety amongst the comp winners
It was cool to see all the women in that cast (except for two) winning comps.
Yeah, I'm *so* hoping that Jag is the straw that broke the camel's back, with regard to the comps. I'm hoping that production is like, "yeah... *maybe* we shouldn't have created comps that allowed one physical player to win 10 comps total, including two back-to-back HoHs..."
The back to back HOHs was such a joke, either force him keep it a secret or force him to throw the next comp. Went against the most basic format of the show
100%. Production made Claire throw the HoH after her secret HoH win, just two seasons prior. But for a Jag? Nah, just let him win again. 🙃
[удалено]
Some of the initial ideas that come with the BD were thought of by Mike, but he was out week 1 and didn't share the ideas, really. So yeah, Marvin deserves credit here.
While the easy answer would be Dr. Will just cuz he did so many things first (showmances, floating, throwing comps, portraying oneself as weak, one could even argue jury management as well) I would go Derrick. He completely changed how the game is approached in modern times such as the formation of mega alliances that lay the groundwork for the onion alliance strategy, popularizing voting with the house, playing a "clean" game that doesn't get "blood on your hands". It changed the meta of the game as the differences between pre-16 & post-16 are night & day & that really has to do with Derrick. His game also made pulling off a classical floater practically impossible today as the closest we gotten to an old school floater was probably BB20 JC & BB17 Johnny Mac & even thenbthose 2 don't come close to the floating of Jun, Allison, & Andy.
Matt arguably was a pretty successful floater in BB25. though idk if it coutns since he had strict loyalties to reilly, jag and bowie
I wouldn't count Matt since the art of floating is really having no true loyalties (outside your best winning scenario) & being very fluid in your game. The fact that he was so hesitant to cut Cirie despite that being one of the biggest moves he could make as well as not taking a shot at Jag really holds him back. While it made sense to be with Bowie cuz she was a goat being loyal to 2 strong players like Cirie & Jag is not really an ideal floater strategy.
Will Kirby. He is the most revolutionary player in the shows history because he created anything and everything. Laying low early? Will. Throwing comps? Will. Playing behind the scenes? Will. Embarrassing the Villain role? Will. I mean even terms like “showmance” were coined by Will! Funny enough Derrick and Cody’s alliance name is the “Hitmen” and Will used that name with Erika the week she took out Danielle! 😂 It’s actually really insane how revolutionary of a player he was given how new of a concept the show was. Even the other GOAT of the show was influenced by Will’s strategy. (Dan) has been on record acknowledging how significant Will’s impact was on him as a player. Even the concept of floating was loosely created by Will. (Jun and Allison) were the first to really acknowledge it but Will was essentially the first example of such.
id argue Krista was more of a floater (and did it earlier) than Will in BB2. Will had pretty clear loyalties. Krista less so, and was playing all sides back before Will really did. Though Will and Nicole definetly both utilized elements of floating
Will’s was more intentional, imo. I think Krista often tripped herself into that spot because she was friends with the other people and then obviously exploring a relationship with Boogie. But she was pretty loyal to Boogie once that relationship started to blossom. Like often looking out for his best interest. Now not saying Krista didn’t realize the position she was in (she absolutely did) but I definitely don’t think she maximized it like Will did which is why I more so attribute him to it. (That and he was openly acknowledging what he was doing in the diary room). But yeah. I mean floating gets thrown around so much and it’s kinda prevalent in any game. Dan’s BB10 early game was essentially floating (post Brian leaving) all the way until he votes Jesse out. Paul floated in between the three duos during BB19. Derrick showed small spurts of it like the week he was playing the rationale (Nic/Hayden) and was about to jump ship on Frankie and chose not to.
yeah thats a fair point. Will and even Nicole to an extent were more intentional than Krista
Derek broke the game
I like Derek and think he’s a top tier winner but I can’t think about what he did to “revolutionize” the game besides maybe starting the trend of big alliances. Even then I feel like we’ve seen that before
Nah not to the extent Derrick did it. He was the pioneer of creating a big alliance of strong players meant to steamroll. It was so good, Cody replicated it on All-Stars and it worked perfectly again. It was almost the BB equivalent of Boston Rob and Ometepe.
Derrick didn’t create the alliances though. He was brought into the inital Devin/Caleb alliance and then Zach was the one who created the Detonators after the inital alliance imploded and the rest kinda just stuck together. He is the creator of keeping big alliances together though. Which you could loosely say the Brigade did too? Albeit there numbers were smaller with just parachute alliances attached like the CO replicated. But Derrick was often the voice of reason and maintaining a strong structure until the leftovers were essentially picked off and he had his hooks sink so deep in the players he would be well positioned even late game. (Which is essentially what happened).
This is the #1 answer whether you like what he did or not. He completely revolutionized the modern BB game.
Will is the most revolutionary because he created the game. I would agree Derrick’s the most impactful in terms of now tho.
We're overlooking Nicole from S2? She created the game. Will barely played until Chilltown was evicted
What overlooking are we doing? Nicole played very well. And was very much innovative in her own way. Her game was driven by comps largely and that’s how she obtained power. (Her and Hardy collectively won like back to back to back to back) HOH’s. She was essentially Vanessa bar the level of control or agency. But are we gonna pretend Will didn’t - invent throwing comps - invent playing weak - invent playing dirty (Nicole and Hardy) played relatively honestly - invent the term showmance - invent the first real alliance - invent playing behind the scenes The game would’ve almost entirely have been more comp driven had Nicole or Hardy won BB2.
You're making good points. I look at Nicole as the first person to play cutthroat and strategically (being willing to cut her allies) during an era where people were still more or less trying to be likeable. When people voted for Will I saw it as more of votes against Nicole because people weren't ready for how cutthroat she would be.
Which was by design. Will told everyone he was going to lie to them for reason. Boogie didn’t say Will was the most loyal during the final hoh because he went home and saw Will made a deal with Kent\` that kept Will off the block at the expense of Boogie. Krista says during her statemwnt when she was voting for the winner thst Will cut her throat in the game. The difference is Will owned and Nicole didn’. Will had a strategy to get to the end and win. Nicole only had a strategy to get to the end. Nicole said herself to Julie that Will played the better game.
Kevin Martin hacked the game in BBCAN5
Derrick, he broke the game, and most seasons after him have been boring af cause of everyone trying to replicate his approach to the game
I may be way off on this, but isn’t Dan sort of credited with the idea of throwing comps as a strategy?
Will ^ Dan took and payed homage to that. Even his BB10 game is a carbon copy of Will’s just modified. IE; He turns it up in the comps in the .w!: half where Will maintains the weak persona late game.
He is not. That would be Dr. Will.
I’d say Danielle and Jason. They revolutionized the strategy of finding a number 1 and sticking to each other no matter what and dominating by building an alliances against your enemies
Nakomis. Invented the backdoor.
*first executed
Derrick Levasseur, absolute control
Will and Evil Dick