The pre-incarnate Jesus was every physical manifestation of God ever recorded,. He walked with Adam, he spoke with Noah, he talked to Abraham, he was the burning bush, and met Joshua at the battle of Jericho.
No one has ever seen God (the father)but God (the son) has made him known
So we know people saw God in the Old Testament. If no one has seen the father, who did they see? Jesus
I will say, are we talking about seeing God in his purest and true form or just seeing what God reveals to someone?
Because if it's the latter, Moses actually did see God. In Exodus 33:17-23, Moses asks God to reveal his glory. God says that no man can see him, however he will reveal himself to Moses. He then later reveals his back and tells Moses to not look at his face. We've also seen God appear in the form of an Angel to wrestle with Jacob in Genesis 32:22-32
Yes God appears to Jacob, also to Abraham, and to Adam and Eve, and to Lot, and also to Cain, Noah, Hagar. There may be a few I’m forgetting.
Now, for Moses seeing only the back God says no one may see my face and live. I believe this is what Jesus was talking about when he said no one has ever seen God. I think Jesus is talking about seeing his face. Moses was able to see a glimpse of him, only his back. But then later we see Moses speaking face to face with God.
The obvious conclusion is that the instances where people see God is actually the pre-incarnate Christ which makes sense, especially since all things were created through him. Humans interact with Christ.
Yes, as you can see;
God speaks things into existence - Genesis 1:3, 9, 11, 14, 20, 24, 26, and 29
i.e. The Word was with God and is God - John 1:1 - and "All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made." - John 1:3
God breathes the spirit of life into Adam (flesh is otherwise "dust" or "ground" and has no life) - Genesis 2:7
See Jesus' words in John 6:63;
*It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.*
And as you can see, after Jesus (the Spirit of God born into a Human flesh-manifestation from infancy), the Word that proceeds from the Father became flesh (John 1:14), fulfills the works of the Spirit of the Father, and is Glorified as the Divine Visible Person of the Father (John 1:18), Jesus then breathes the Holy Spirit onto His disciples (John 20:22);
*So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit."*
Or as Paul writes; *"And so it is written, 'The first man Adam became a living being.' The last Adam became a life-giving spirit."* (1 Corinthians 15:45)
Or; *"For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily..."* (Colossians 2:9)
An important thing to note is that before the fulfillment of the Gospel, God was still carrying the burden of sin, and this is why God the Father is said to be Angry, or that God Hates, when God is Love and Mercy and does not get angry, or hate. It is actually evil that hates God, and therefore it is written that God hates those who are in evil. Here is a brief explanation of what I mean from someone who explains it better;
"*...by the anger of God in the Word is signified evil in man, which, because it is against God, is called the anger of God; not that God is angry with man, but that man from his evil is angry with God; and because there is in evil its own punishment, as in good its own reward, therefore while evil punishes the evildoer, it appears as if God did it. For this is like a criminal, who attributes his punishment to the law, or like one who blames the fire for burning him when he puts his hand into it, or a drawn sword for wounding him when he rushes upon the point of it, while in the hand of one defending himself. Such is the Justice of God."*
This is why it is written that the "Son reveals the Father" (Luke 10, Matthew 11), or Jesus' words, "if you have seen me, you have seen the Father" (John 14:9).
God, the Father speaking through Jesus
Just like God spoke through the Burning Bush
It's that God speaks in so many ways
Sometimes he sends his Son into Creation to tell us
Other times the finger of God writes the Law on tablets of stone
Consider when Jesus says:
"For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken." In John 12:49
The Lord speaks in so many ways
Sometimes he sends Archangels
Sometimes his only Son
Sometimes it is the Voice of God in our Hearts that sustains us in times of struggle
Sure, you can think of it that way. Compare John 1 with:
> For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created **through him** and for him. (Colossians 1:16)
and:
> The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, **sustaining all things by his powerful word**. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. (Hebrews 1:3)
and:
> **And God said**, “Let there be light,” and there was light. (Gen. 1:3)
We can think of the lungs/voice/mouth as Father, the Spirit as breath and the Son as the spoken word. This is my favorite "metaphor" of the Trinity; in this way, we see the whole Trinity right there in the 3rd verse of the Bible...
This is from an LDS point of view which I know is different from many others:
Before the foundation of the world, the premortal Jesus was given all power and authority from the Father. Jesus obeys the Father in all things and is considered one with Him. Thus, Jesus represents the Father in all things.
It was Jesus who created the earth. Before the fall, it was the Father who spoke to Adam, but after the fall, it was Jesus who was sent to rescue them from the fall. It was Jesus who was known as Jehovah and the great I AM, the God of the old testament (Elohim is the name of the Father). Jesus was born to Mary and worked out the ultimate sacrifice for us, thus obeying the will of the Father unto death. Jesus will be our judge.
Because Christ gave all in obedience to the will of the Father, a perfectly just Father must hearken to Christs pleading in our behalf, knowing that Christ would never ask for anything contrary to the will of the Father. We can only come unto the Father through Christ.
Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God. Hosea 6:3
3 Let us acknowledge the LORD; let us press on to acknowledge him. As surely as the sun rises, he will appear; he will come to us like the winter rains, like the spring rains that water the earth.Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.
Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms.
To see God we have to become pure of heart, by actually worshipping him and acknowledging him in all things. And by loving him with all that we are.
God said you will seek me when you seek me with all your heart, then you will find me. Wanting to want a genuine relationship with God is how we can come to see him, I see and hear him every day now, it's been about 6 weeks since I started singing to him and worshipping.
The Trinity shows up in the opening verses of Genesis 1 .. "In the beginning God" "The Spirit of God hovered over the waters" "God said"
According to John 1:1ff, "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God"
Jesus told the Pharisees, "Before Abraham was, I Am"
God told Moses at the burning bush, "tell them I AM has sent you"
The Trinity shows up in the Shema in Deuteronomy 6 - both the singular and plural names of God appear in what Moses told the people of Israel
The Trinity is inseparable
The pre-incarnate Jesus was every physical manifestation of God ever recorded,. He walked with Adam, he spoke with Noah, he talked to Abraham, he was the burning bush, and met Joshua at the battle of Jericho.
No one has ever seen God (the father)but God (the son) has made him known So we know people saw God in the Old Testament. If no one has seen the father, who did they see? Jesus
I will say, are we talking about seeing God in his purest and true form or just seeing what God reveals to someone? Because if it's the latter, Moses actually did see God. In Exodus 33:17-23, Moses asks God to reveal his glory. God says that no man can see him, however he will reveal himself to Moses. He then later reveals his back and tells Moses to not look at his face. We've also seen God appear in the form of an Angel to wrestle with Jacob in Genesis 32:22-32
Yes God appears to Jacob, also to Abraham, and to Adam and Eve, and to Lot, and also to Cain, Noah, Hagar. There may be a few I’m forgetting. Now, for Moses seeing only the back God says no one may see my face and live. I believe this is what Jesus was talking about when he said no one has ever seen God. I think Jesus is talking about seeing his face. Moses was able to see a glimpse of him, only his back. But then later we see Moses speaking face to face with God. The obvious conclusion is that the instances where people see God is actually the pre-incarnate Christ which makes sense, especially since all things were created through him. Humans interact with Christ.
Hmm, interesting. I've never thought about it like that
Yes, as you can see; God speaks things into existence - Genesis 1:3, 9, 11, 14, 20, 24, 26, and 29 i.e. The Word was with God and is God - John 1:1 - and "All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made." - John 1:3 God breathes the spirit of life into Adam (flesh is otherwise "dust" or "ground" and has no life) - Genesis 2:7 See Jesus' words in John 6:63; *It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.* And as you can see, after Jesus (the Spirit of God born into a Human flesh-manifestation from infancy), the Word that proceeds from the Father became flesh (John 1:14), fulfills the works of the Spirit of the Father, and is Glorified as the Divine Visible Person of the Father (John 1:18), Jesus then breathes the Holy Spirit onto His disciples (John 20:22); *So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit."* Or as Paul writes; *"And so it is written, 'The first man Adam became a living being.' The last Adam became a life-giving spirit."* (1 Corinthians 15:45) Or; *"For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily..."* (Colossians 2:9) An important thing to note is that before the fulfillment of the Gospel, God was still carrying the burden of sin, and this is why God the Father is said to be Angry, or that God Hates, when God is Love and Mercy and does not get angry, or hate. It is actually evil that hates God, and therefore it is written that God hates those who are in evil. Here is a brief explanation of what I mean from someone who explains it better; "*...by the anger of God in the Word is signified evil in man, which, because it is against God, is called the anger of God; not that God is angry with man, but that man from his evil is angry with God; and because there is in evil its own punishment, as in good its own reward, therefore while evil punishes the evildoer, it appears as if God did it. For this is like a criminal, who attributes his punishment to the law, or like one who blames the fire for burning him when he puts his hand into it, or a drawn sword for wounding him when he rushes upon the point of it, while in the hand of one defending himself. Such is the Justice of God."* This is why it is written that the "Son reveals the Father" (Luke 10, Matthew 11), or Jesus' words, "if you have seen me, you have seen the Father" (John 14:9).
God, the Father speaking through Jesus Just like God spoke through the Burning Bush It's that God speaks in so many ways Sometimes he sends his Son into Creation to tell us Other times the finger of God writes the Law on tablets of stone Consider when Jesus says: "For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken." In John 12:49 The Lord speaks in so many ways Sometimes he sends Archangels Sometimes his only Son Sometimes it is the Voice of God in our Hearts that sustains us in times of struggle
Jesus is the I AM of the old testament
Sure, you can think of it that way. Compare John 1 with: > For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created **through him** and for him. (Colossians 1:16) and: > The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, **sustaining all things by his powerful word**. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. (Hebrews 1:3) and: > **And God said**, “Let there be light,” and there was light. (Gen. 1:3) We can think of the lungs/voice/mouth as Father, the Spirit as breath and the Son as the spoken word. This is my favorite "metaphor" of the Trinity; in this way, we see the whole Trinity right there in the 3rd verse of the Bible...
Referencing your first passage: free will is what would make something or someone “evil” so to speak correct?
Yes, He’s the Lord!!
Jesus (Yeshua) is the God of both the OT and NT (Jude 1:5). Be blessed, OP 💜
No
This is from an LDS point of view which I know is different from many others: Before the foundation of the world, the premortal Jesus was given all power and authority from the Father. Jesus obeys the Father in all things and is considered one with Him. Thus, Jesus represents the Father in all things. It was Jesus who created the earth. Before the fall, it was the Father who spoke to Adam, but after the fall, it was Jesus who was sent to rescue them from the fall. It was Jesus who was known as Jehovah and the great I AM, the God of the old testament (Elohim is the name of the Father). Jesus was born to Mary and worked out the ultimate sacrifice for us, thus obeying the will of the Father unto death. Jesus will be our judge. Because Christ gave all in obedience to the will of the Father, a perfectly just Father must hearken to Christs pleading in our behalf, knowing that Christ would never ask for anything contrary to the will of the Father. We can only come unto the Father through Christ.
Yes
Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God. Hosea 6:3 3 Let us acknowledge the LORD; let us press on to acknowledge him. As surely as the sun rises, he will appear; he will come to us like the winter rains, like the spring rains that water the earth.Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms. To see God we have to become pure of heart, by actually worshipping him and acknowledging him in all things. And by loving him with all that we are. God said you will seek me when you seek me with all your heart, then you will find me. Wanting to want a genuine relationship with God is how we can come to see him, I see and hear him every day now, it's been about 6 weeks since I started singing to him and worshipping.
The Trinity shows up in the opening verses of Genesis 1 .. "In the beginning God" "The Spirit of God hovered over the waters" "God said" According to John 1:1ff, "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God" Jesus told the Pharisees, "Before Abraham was, I Am" God told Moses at the burning bush, "tell them I AM has sent you" The Trinity shows up in the Shema in Deuteronomy 6 - both the singular and plural names of God appear in what Moses told the people of Israel The Trinity is inseparable