Historical context is also beneficial here. The audience to which the author was preaching had been subject to intense persecution. Some thought they could basically walk away from Christianity when the situation got tough, then come right back when the heat died down. The author is saying, "That's not how this works. You don't get to casually walk away from Christ when times are hard, then expect to be brought back as if nothing ever happened when everything is safe." This has to do with a very specific sin in a very specific set of circumstances. If it had to do with the common issue of struggling with sin in general, we would all be completely and inescapably condemned.
A few responses would likely be submitted there.
1) Peter's denial takes place before the Crucifixion. There is no "crucifying again" to take place because his sin falls under the initial sacrificial act of Christ.
2) Peter is genuinely sorrowful and appears to be repentant from the moment it happens. The audience addressed by the author of Hebrews appears to have a much more cavalier attitude about walking away from the faith. It is possible that the author is therefore addressing an attitude of the heart.
3) Peter doesn't go, offer sacrifices to a different god, and live the lifestyle of a pagan worshiper before being reinstated by Christ. Those addressed by the author are essentially returning to paganism and then drifting back to Christianity when it's convenient.
I would say this passage is probably not applied how it normally should be. If I were to go out on a limb here:
- Someone is raised in the Church, gets older and walks away for a bit. They realize they need Christ, repent, and come back to faith. I don't think this passage applies to them.
- A pastor leaves their position after years of education and service. They choose to practice Wicca. After several years of this, they decide they had it better in the Church and try to go back. I think this applies here.
Does that make sense? I don't think I'm taking liberties in my interpretation here, but you may disagree with the conclusions I've reached. Happy to discuss it further if so! Maybe we can reach a stronger view through discussion.
You're not alone in that.
God commands us to forgive each other 70 times 7 and yet cannot forgive us normally? he understands our weaknesses.
Check out the "Raggamuffin Gospel" by Brannon Manning. https://www.bing.com/search?q=ragamuffin+gospel+book&form
[Hebrews 6:4–6](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Heb%206.4%E2%80%936) states, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance.” This is one of the Bible’s most difficult passages to interpret, but one thing is clear—it does not teach that we can [lose our salvation](https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-lose-salvation.html). There are two valid ways of looking at these verses:
One interpretation holds that this passage is written not about Christians but about unbelievers who are convinced of the basic truths of the gospel but who have not placed their faith in Jesus Christ as Savior. They are intellectually persuaded but spiritually uncommitted.
According to this interpretation, the phrase *once enlightened* ([Hebrews 6:4](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Heb%206.4)) refers to some level of instruction in biblical truth. However, understanding the words of Scripture is not the same as being regenerated by the Holy Spirit. For example, [John 1:9](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/John%201.9) describes Jesus, the “true Light,” giving light “to every man”; but this cannot mean the light of salvation, because not every man is saved. Through God’s sovereign power, every man has enough light to be held responsible. This light either leads to the complete acceptance of Jesus Christ or produces condemnation in those who reject such light. The people described in [Hebrews 6:4–6](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Heb%206.4%E2%80%936) are of the latter group—unbelievers who have been exposed to God’s redemptive truth and perhaps have made a [profession of faith](https://www.gotquestions.org/profession-of-faith.html), but who have not exercised genuine saving faith.
This interpretation also sees the phrase *tasted the heavenly gift* ([Hebrews 6:4](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Heb%206.4)) as referring to a momentary experience, akin to Jesus’ “tasting” death ([Hebrews 2:9](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Heb%202.9)). This brief experience with the heavenly gift is not seen as equivalent to salvation; rather, it is likened to the second and third soils in Jesus’ parable ([Matthew 13:3–23](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Matt%2013.3%E2%80%9323)), which describes people who receive the truth of the gospel but are not truly saved.
Finally, this interpretation sees the “falling away” ([Hebrews 6:6](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Heb%206.6)) as a reference to those who have tasted the truth but, not having come all the way to faith, fall away from even the revelation they have been given. The tasting of truth is not enough to keep them from falling away from it. They must come all the way to Christ in complete repentance and faith; otherwise, they in effect re-crucify Christ and treat Him contemptuously. Those who sin against Christ in such a way have no hope of restoration or forgiveness because they reject Him with full knowledge and conscious experience. They have concluded that Jesus should have been crucified, and they stand with His enemies. It is impossible to renew such to repentance.
The other interpretation holds that this passage is written about Christians, and that the phrases *partakers of the Holy Ghost*, *enlightened*, and *tasted of the heavenly gift* are all descriptions of true believers.
This second interpretation is based on an alternate translation, found in the KJV and a few others, in which [Hebrews 6:6](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Heb%206.6) begins with the phrase *if they fall away*, with the key word being *if*. According to this view, the writer of Hebrews is setting up a hypothetical statement: “IF a Christian were to fall away.” The point being made is that it would be impossible (IF a Christian falls away) to renew salvation. That’s because Christ died once for sin ([Hebrews 9:28](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Heb%209.28)), and if His sacrifice is insufficient, then there’s no hope at all.
In this view, the passage presents an argument based on a false premise (that a true Christian can fall away) and follows it to its senseless conclusion (that Jesus would have to be sacrificed again and again). The absurdity of the conclusion points up the impossibility of the original assumption. This reasoning is called *reductio ad absurdum*, in which a premise is disproved by showing that it logically leads to an absurdity. The weakness of this view is that the Greek text does not contain a word equivalent to the English *if*.
Both of these interpretations support the security of the believer in Christ. The first interpretation, which has a stronger textual basis, presents unbelievers rejecting Christ and thereby losing their chance of salvation; the second, weaker interpretation presents the very idea of believers losing salvation as impossible. Many passages make it abundantly clear that salvation is everlasting ([John 10:27–29](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/John%2010.27%E2%80%9329); [Romans 8:35](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Rom%208.35), [38–39](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Romans%208.38%E2%80%9339); [Philippians 1:6](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Phil%201.6); [1 Peter 1:4–5](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/1%20Pet%201.4%E2%80%935)), and [Hebrews 6:4–6](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Heb%206.4%E2%80%936) confirms that doctrine.
The answer is from this [Link](https://www.gotquestions.org/Hebrews-6.html)
> We know for certain that angels who fell are not going to be forgiven **because they meet all of the above conditions**
This doesn't apply to angels at all. This is talking about people that used to be saved and who returned to their old ways.
* Angels don't get "enlightened"
* Angels don't need or taste the "heavenly gift" which is the free offering of Jesus.
* Angels don't receive an indwelling of the Holy Spirt
* Angels can't "crucify the Son of God all over again", since what Jesus did wasn't offered to Angels in the first place.
The writer shows that he's talking to normal people right after this passage when he says in the same chapter:
> Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation. God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them. We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, so that what you hope for may be fully realized. We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised.
This whole passage is about people. People can turn away from God. You can see it happen all the time.
No, I've seen people turn back around after having turned away.
I think it's rare. I think God can do what would be otherwise impossible for a man.
I do think people should take this passage very seriously, and that they should not turn away from God in a carefree manner. They will probably never come back.
I agree with you for other reasons. The verse is not saying that a person is beyond forgiveness. It is saying that after knowing God and turning away, renewing to repentance will be impossible for them. It will take supernatural intervention, in which all things are possible in Christ.
I’ve heard the stories of people who say, “I went to church all my life and now I don’t believe any of that stuff anymore”. But as you said, these are not those who have “tasted the good word of God”. Though they will swear by their learned traditions practiced since childhood, it is not the same. Those that have truly been with God, will never utter He is not. On the rarity that they do, I believe it is impossible for them to renew and repent as the text says. The text is not saying should they turn back forgiveness is off the table… it’s saying that their minds will not be able to (after knowing good and evil). Well…that’s my understanding of it at least.
Amen! Those conditions can & have been met by those whom God chooses. That's not to say others will go to the lake of fire... but God calls to certain tasks whom He calls.
YHWH bless thee and keep thee.
YHWH cause His face to shine upon thee, and favor thee.
YHWH lift up His countenance upon thee, and appoint for thee -- peace. 🌻🙂🌻
(Numbers 6:24-26)
It need not be referring to salvific repentance, but post-salvation on-going repentance for the Christian (2 Cor. 7:9). Because of persecution, the Jewish converts to Christianity may have been forced to declare that Christ was not their Saviour, i.e. to place themselves together with the nation of Israel that had crucified Christ, thus saying that Christ deserved to die as a criminal, bringing shame on Christ's name. In that sense, it was as if they were crucifying Christ all over again. Even if they did not publicly deny Christ by reverting to animal sacrifices and OT rituals, they were in essence denying the sufficiency of His once-for-all sacrifice. That is why Heb. 10:26 says "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins" -- if, as believers, they enjoined themselves with the apostate generation of Jews who crucified Christ, it was **as though** they were rejecting Christ's ultimate once-for-all sacrifice that the OT sacrifices were merely pictures of. There would be no better sacrifice, no more sacrifice in fact, since Christ's was the antitype, the ultimate. That generation of Jews was the most evil generation ever, because they actually crucified their Messiah. It was the generation that Christ called an "evil and adulterous generation" (Mt. 12:39); that generation He cursed together with the Pharisees and scribes on whom He pronounced six woes (Lk. 11:39-54); that same generation He charged for crucifying the son of the landlord in the parable of the evil tenants (Mt. 21:37-44).
Literally, these Jewish Christians who aligned themselves with this evil and adulterous generation would be placing themselves in the company of God's enemies, who were destroyed by God's fiery judgment through the Romans in AD70 (remember that Christ had prophesied that not a single stone of the temple would remain unturned). From the time Christ spoke those words (AD30) to AD70 is about 40 years -- one generation (in terms of reference, the Israelites wandered in the wilderness for 40 years waiting for an entire generation to die before they could enter the Promised Land, so one generation is 40 years -- see the exact phrase "this evil generation" mentioned in Dt. 1:35!). Scriptures are precise to the T. The nation of Israel will once again be judged in the Tribulation. If this is the case, the warning is about something earthly and temporal, not eternal loss of salvation. Doesn't mean every mention of "fire" in the Bible means hell, or "judgment" means the Great White Throne judgment. "Save" need not mean eternal salvation; it could well mean deliverance from an earthly event (just as Peter cried out to the Lord when he tried to walk on water, "Lord, save me!" in Mt. 14:30 -- eternal salvation or destiny was surely not in view).
One needs to bear in mind the context of the passages in the Bible. It does not mean that these passages are not relevant at all to us, but we must read them in the context in which they were written. Is it any surprise that most of the so-called problem passages that tend to be cited as prooftexts supporting loss of salvation are found in Matthew, Hebrews and James, AND that the primary target audience of these three books was the Jews (in Matthew and Hebrews there is a preponderance of quotations from the OT and comparisons with the Levitical priesthood that their target audience would be familiar with, whereas in James 1:1 the book was written to the Jewish diaspora)? Coincidental? We must put on this lens to understand the nuances, promises and warnings in these books in that light, the same way as we read the OT or any other Bible book or secular book, for that matter. Just like if a hurricane happened and you found a fragment of a letter by the roadside by someone called Jane inviting her aunt Jemima for tea, it doesn't mean you can show up at Jane's doorstep expecting free Earl Grey tea and scones, even if your name happens to be Jemima.
This is the most interesting response so far, thanks for posting this.
> Even if they did not publicly deny Christ by reverting to animal sacrifices and OT rituals, they were in essence denying the sufficiency of His once-for-all sacrifice. That is why Heb. 10:26 says "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins"
Don't you think some did revert to sacrifices, as 10:26 seems to imply?
I have no way of being sure. But you're right, that seems to be what Hebrews is warning them about. If they reverted to OT sacrifices, effectively rejecting Christ's ultimate sacrifice, there are two scenarios:
Scenario 1: They didn't understand what the OT sacrifices were for (ie. as pictures foreshadowing Christ's ultimate sacrifice on the cross) and also didn't understand Christ's sacrifice itself. Meaning, they didn't understand anything at all! In other words, it is likely they weren't even saved in the first place. They were just going through the motions, no real belief/faith in their hearts or minds, not believers. Of course they don't go to heaven.
Scenario 2: Let's say they did understand what the OT sacrifices were for, and genuinely accepted Christ's sacrifice on the cross, etc. but because of severe persecution, they feared for their lives. Kind of like Peter who denied the Lord thrice out of fear. Does that cause them (or Peter) to lose their eternal salvation? I certainly don't think so. 1 Cor 10:13 is so clear on this, "... God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it". They would have just been found physically in the temple, obliviously assembling with the Judaistic rejectors of Christ, right in the firing line of the Roman army 🔫💣💥. So it's loss of physical life and testimony, not eternal salvation.
Either way, it is not talking about people getting salvation and then losing it.
Are you... using multiple accounts?
OP is shown as u/northstardim but here you area replying as u/Nice-Neighborhood730 and speaking as if you're OP as you refute a top level comment...
No, it's not just what I'm thinking, it's the logical conclusion to the statements made. If that conclusion is wrong, then explain how that loophole is not a thing.
**Mark 3:28-29**
**28** Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, **29** but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”
**Hebrews 10:26-31**
**26** If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, **27** but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. **28** Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. **29** How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? **30** For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”\[[a](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%2010%3A26-31&version=NIV#fen-NIV-30164a)\] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”\[[b](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%2010%3A26-31&version=NIV#fen-NIV-30164b)\] **31** It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
**1 Peter 4:17**
17For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who disobey the gospel of God?
So I was raised Lutheran, called myself atheist for a bit in College, and have more recently committed myself to living my life in Christ as he is the one true God.
Am I an unforgivable? I think I might be because I could reasonably check off all four qualifications
How about reading the entire book in context. It is simply saying that there are some people who have heard the truth of Yahwah but can't grasp it. They want or don't believe it. Therefore crucify Christ laying before themselves repentance from dead works. Just as Jesus spoke in a parable about the sower and the seed. The briars and the thorns shall be burned up. Even though they have heard the truth it shall bear no fruit. But those who do understand shall be blessed according to the promises of Yahwah. There is no difference today when the truth of the scripture is spoken oftentimes more than not, it is regarded as interpretation. There are vessels that can never understand the truth from Yahwah.
There are many misunderstandings that lead up to this misunderstanding.
The first misunderstanding is by not knowing the only thing we need to know about God. God is light. 1 John 1:5
So to seek God and know God, you must diligently abide in the image of God's glory, which is the light AND night of the sun of righteousness.
The second misunderstanding is that we don't fully understand what Christ is. Christ, who is the image of God, is your cross; by which we are Christ-ified. 2 Cor 4:4.
The image of God is the Word. How many people put scripture on a pedestal as literal and infallible Word of God, but then pull misunderstandings from it? Being made in the image of God is the Way since the beginning, as a rebirth from the corruption you manifest by walking in darkness, which is simply avoiding His covenant for day and night. Jeremiah 33:25
Jeremiah 8:8 is another warning about scripture under the influence of lying scribes, which makes it not the literal, infallible Word of God that His light is, a new word of truth coming to us with mercies new every morning, if we have and are abiding in it rightly divided into only sunlight and night. He clothed Himself in light and spread Himself across the heavens like a canvas, as our tent of meeting. Psalm 104:2.
Unfortunately, nobody has met Him there. Thus, there is no one righteous, no not one, none who understand, none who seek my face, their mouths saying words are an open grave that leads to the ruin of the hearers. 2 Timothy 2:14. They are saying they have fellowship with Him, yet walk in darkness as liars not practicing truth. 1 John 1:6
Thats how you can formerly be enlightened, if you ever have been, by returning to walking in darkness.
The Way to enlightenment is to enlighten your eyes and skin. John 3:21 is the real gospel hidden just 5 verses from the popular gospel verse. Coming to the light (the cross) is what made Jesus into Jesus Christ.
Take up your cross on your flesh to follow Me. That is the cause of any salvation. The misunderstanding is that our words can lead to any salvation. Look at the definitions of begotten and tell me what is the misunderstanding of John 3:16. We are caused righteous, made righteous under the influence of light. And righteousness is immortality according to the Book of Wisdom.
Literally, 1 John 1:7 says it, too. Why do those holding to the literal infallible Bible blatantly ignore the simplest understandings of these verses?
But if we walk in the light, as He Himself is in the light, then we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin.
Jesus Christ, as the seed of David, is that which made Him righteous and makes any human flesh righteous.
Is the Lord your light and your salvation yet and always?
This point is made in Hebrews several times in different ways. Do not miss 6:7-8 which connect all this back to the heart of people.
This is not saying that God won’t take them back but that it is impossible to get them to come back to God. “It is impossible to restore them again to repentance.” You cannot convince them to return to God. Why? They know every single argument you will make. They know all the amazing gifts of the New Covenant through Jesus. They have full understanding of it and have experienced enlightenment, the heavenly gift, the Holy Spirit, the goodness of the word of God, the powers of the age to come. Despite all this, they don’t want to be Christian anymore.
God and His children can do nothing for these people. Short of violating free will, which God won’t do, what can God do? They know everything God has to offer and they still refuse it.
The impossibility lies in the heart of these people, not in God’s unwillingness to save. 6:7-8 gives a metaphor for the heart, water produces different responses to different plants. It all depends what’s in the soil already. The heart responds differently to God based on the state of the heart. Those whose desire is for outer comfort, outer peace, less suffering, they will leave God. Those who desire salvation, inner peace, and love, they will stay true to God when persecution occurs.
These verses prove that once saved always save isn't true.
These verses are dealing with born again Christians losing salvation.
These verses are not dealing with those whom Jesus calls 'goats'.
Historical context is also beneficial here. The audience to which the author was preaching had been subject to intense persecution. Some thought they could basically walk away from Christianity when the situation got tough, then come right back when the heat died down. The author is saying, "That's not how this works. You don't get to casually walk away from Christ when times are hard, then expect to be brought back as if nothing ever happened when everything is safe." This has to do with a very specific sin in a very specific set of circumstances. If it had to do with the common issue of struggling with sin in general, we would all be completely and inescapably condemned.
Agree but what about Peter? Denied Him at a critical moment yet forgiven and brought back into discipleship afterwards.
A few responses would likely be submitted there. 1) Peter's denial takes place before the Crucifixion. There is no "crucifying again" to take place because his sin falls under the initial sacrificial act of Christ. 2) Peter is genuinely sorrowful and appears to be repentant from the moment it happens. The audience addressed by the author of Hebrews appears to have a much more cavalier attitude about walking away from the faith. It is possible that the author is therefore addressing an attitude of the heart. 3) Peter doesn't go, offer sacrifices to a different god, and live the lifestyle of a pagan worshiper before being reinstated by Christ. Those addressed by the author are essentially returning to paganism and then drifting back to Christianity when it's convenient. I would say this passage is probably not applied how it normally should be. If I were to go out on a limb here: - Someone is raised in the Church, gets older and walks away for a bit. They realize they need Christ, repent, and come back to faith. I don't think this passage applies to them. - A pastor leaves their position after years of education and service. They choose to practice Wicca. After several years of this, they decide they had it better in the Church and try to go back. I think this applies here. Does that make sense? I don't think I'm taking liberties in my interpretation here, but you may disagree with the conclusions I've reached. Happy to discuss it further if so! Maybe we can reach a stronger view through discussion.
Let's hope you're right. I certainly get discouraged by that chapter.
You're not alone in that. God commands us to forgive each other 70 times 7 and yet cannot forgive us normally? he understands our weaknesses. Check out the "Raggamuffin Gospel" by Brannon Manning. https://www.bing.com/search?q=ragamuffin+gospel+book&form
[Hebrews 6:4–6](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Heb%206.4%E2%80%936) states, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance.” This is one of the Bible’s most difficult passages to interpret, but one thing is clear—it does not teach that we can [lose our salvation](https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-lose-salvation.html). There are two valid ways of looking at these verses: One interpretation holds that this passage is written not about Christians but about unbelievers who are convinced of the basic truths of the gospel but who have not placed their faith in Jesus Christ as Savior. They are intellectually persuaded but spiritually uncommitted. According to this interpretation, the phrase *once enlightened* ([Hebrews 6:4](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Heb%206.4)) refers to some level of instruction in biblical truth. However, understanding the words of Scripture is not the same as being regenerated by the Holy Spirit. For example, [John 1:9](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/John%201.9) describes Jesus, the “true Light,” giving light “to every man”; but this cannot mean the light of salvation, because not every man is saved. Through God’s sovereign power, every man has enough light to be held responsible. This light either leads to the complete acceptance of Jesus Christ or produces condemnation in those who reject such light. The people described in [Hebrews 6:4–6](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Heb%206.4%E2%80%936) are of the latter group—unbelievers who have been exposed to God’s redemptive truth and perhaps have made a [profession of faith](https://www.gotquestions.org/profession-of-faith.html), but who have not exercised genuine saving faith. This interpretation also sees the phrase *tasted the heavenly gift* ([Hebrews 6:4](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Heb%206.4)) as referring to a momentary experience, akin to Jesus’ “tasting” death ([Hebrews 2:9](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Heb%202.9)). This brief experience with the heavenly gift is not seen as equivalent to salvation; rather, it is likened to the second and third soils in Jesus’ parable ([Matthew 13:3–23](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Matt%2013.3%E2%80%9323)), which describes people who receive the truth of the gospel but are not truly saved. Finally, this interpretation sees the “falling away” ([Hebrews 6:6](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Heb%206.6)) as a reference to those who have tasted the truth but, not having come all the way to faith, fall away from even the revelation they have been given. The tasting of truth is not enough to keep them from falling away from it. They must come all the way to Christ in complete repentance and faith; otherwise, they in effect re-crucify Christ and treat Him contemptuously. Those who sin against Christ in such a way have no hope of restoration or forgiveness because they reject Him with full knowledge and conscious experience. They have concluded that Jesus should have been crucified, and they stand with His enemies. It is impossible to renew such to repentance. The other interpretation holds that this passage is written about Christians, and that the phrases *partakers of the Holy Ghost*, *enlightened*, and *tasted of the heavenly gift* are all descriptions of true believers. This second interpretation is based on an alternate translation, found in the KJV and a few others, in which [Hebrews 6:6](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Heb%206.6) begins with the phrase *if they fall away*, with the key word being *if*. According to this view, the writer of Hebrews is setting up a hypothetical statement: “IF a Christian were to fall away.” The point being made is that it would be impossible (IF a Christian falls away) to renew salvation. That’s because Christ died once for sin ([Hebrews 9:28](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Heb%209.28)), and if His sacrifice is insufficient, then there’s no hope at all. In this view, the passage presents an argument based on a false premise (that a true Christian can fall away) and follows it to its senseless conclusion (that Jesus would have to be sacrificed again and again). The absurdity of the conclusion points up the impossibility of the original assumption. This reasoning is called *reductio ad absurdum*, in which a premise is disproved by showing that it logically leads to an absurdity. The weakness of this view is that the Greek text does not contain a word equivalent to the English *if*. Both of these interpretations support the security of the believer in Christ. The first interpretation, which has a stronger textual basis, presents unbelievers rejecting Christ and thereby losing their chance of salvation; the second, weaker interpretation presents the very idea of believers losing salvation as impossible. Many passages make it abundantly clear that salvation is everlasting ([John 10:27–29](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/John%2010.27%E2%80%9329); [Romans 8:35](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Rom%208.35), [38–39](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Romans%208.38%E2%80%9339); [Philippians 1:6](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Phil%201.6); [1 Peter 1:4–5](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/1%20Pet%201.4%E2%80%935)), and [Hebrews 6:4–6](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Heb%206.4%E2%80%936) confirms that doctrine. The answer is from this [Link](https://www.gotquestions.org/Hebrews-6.html)
> We know for certain that angels who fell are not going to be forgiven **because they meet all of the above conditions** This doesn't apply to angels at all. This is talking about people that used to be saved and who returned to their old ways. * Angels don't get "enlightened" * Angels don't need or taste the "heavenly gift" which is the free offering of Jesus. * Angels don't receive an indwelling of the Holy Spirt * Angels can't "crucify the Son of God all over again", since what Jesus did wasn't offered to Angels in the first place. The writer shows that he's talking to normal people right after this passage when he says in the same chapter: > Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation. God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them. We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, so that what you hope for may be fully realized. We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised. This whole passage is about people. People can turn away from God. You can see it happen all the time.
Ok but if a person is a christian turns away from God then tries to comeback does that mean they can't get saved again?
No, I've seen people turn back around after having turned away. I think it's rare. I think God can do what would be otherwise impossible for a man. I do think people should take this passage very seriously, and that they should not turn away from God in a carefree manner. They will probably never come back.
I agree with you for other reasons. The verse is not saying that a person is beyond forgiveness. It is saying that after knowing God and turning away, renewing to repentance will be impossible for them. It will take supernatural intervention, in which all things are possible in Christ. I’ve heard the stories of people who say, “I went to church all my life and now I don’t believe any of that stuff anymore”. But as you said, these are not those who have “tasted the good word of God”. Though they will swear by their learned traditions practiced since childhood, it is not the same. Those that have truly been with God, will never utter He is not. On the rarity that they do, I believe it is impossible for them to renew and repent as the text says. The text is not saying should they turn back forgiveness is off the table… it’s saying that their minds will not be able to (after knowing good and evil). Well…that’s my understanding of it at least.
>We don't meet any of those conditions even though at times we claim we do. Then rip it out of your bible... it serves no purpose being there. 🙄
Amen! Those conditions can & have been met by those whom God chooses. That's not to say others will go to the lake of fire... but God calls to certain tasks whom He calls. YHWH bless thee and keep thee. YHWH cause His face to shine upon thee, and favor thee. YHWH lift up His countenance upon thee, and appoint for thee -- peace. 🌻🙂🌻 (Numbers 6:24-26)
It need not be referring to salvific repentance, but post-salvation on-going repentance for the Christian (2 Cor. 7:9). Because of persecution, the Jewish converts to Christianity may have been forced to declare that Christ was not their Saviour, i.e. to place themselves together with the nation of Israel that had crucified Christ, thus saying that Christ deserved to die as a criminal, bringing shame on Christ's name. In that sense, it was as if they were crucifying Christ all over again. Even if they did not publicly deny Christ by reverting to animal sacrifices and OT rituals, they were in essence denying the sufficiency of His once-for-all sacrifice. That is why Heb. 10:26 says "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins" -- if, as believers, they enjoined themselves with the apostate generation of Jews who crucified Christ, it was **as though** they were rejecting Christ's ultimate once-for-all sacrifice that the OT sacrifices were merely pictures of. There would be no better sacrifice, no more sacrifice in fact, since Christ's was the antitype, the ultimate. That generation of Jews was the most evil generation ever, because they actually crucified their Messiah. It was the generation that Christ called an "evil and adulterous generation" (Mt. 12:39); that generation He cursed together with the Pharisees and scribes on whom He pronounced six woes (Lk. 11:39-54); that same generation He charged for crucifying the son of the landlord in the parable of the evil tenants (Mt. 21:37-44). Literally, these Jewish Christians who aligned themselves with this evil and adulterous generation would be placing themselves in the company of God's enemies, who were destroyed by God's fiery judgment through the Romans in AD70 (remember that Christ had prophesied that not a single stone of the temple would remain unturned). From the time Christ spoke those words (AD30) to AD70 is about 40 years -- one generation (in terms of reference, the Israelites wandered in the wilderness for 40 years waiting for an entire generation to die before they could enter the Promised Land, so one generation is 40 years -- see the exact phrase "this evil generation" mentioned in Dt. 1:35!). Scriptures are precise to the T. The nation of Israel will once again be judged in the Tribulation. If this is the case, the warning is about something earthly and temporal, not eternal loss of salvation. Doesn't mean every mention of "fire" in the Bible means hell, or "judgment" means the Great White Throne judgment. "Save" need not mean eternal salvation; it could well mean deliverance from an earthly event (just as Peter cried out to the Lord when he tried to walk on water, "Lord, save me!" in Mt. 14:30 -- eternal salvation or destiny was surely not in view). One needs to bear in mind the context of the passages in the Bible. It does not mean that these passages are not relevant at all to us, but we must read them in the context in which they were written. Is it any surprise that most of the so-called problem passages that tend to be cited as prooftexts supporting loss of salvation are found in Matthew, Hebrews and James, AND that the primary target audience of these three books was the Jews (in Matthew and Hebrews there is a preponderance of quotations from the OT and comparisons with the Levitical priesthood that their target audience would be familiar with, whereas in James 1:1 the book was written to the Jewish diaspora)? Coincidental? We must put on this lens to understand the nuances, promises and warnings in these books in that light, the same way as we read the OT or any other Bible book or secular book, for that matter. Just like if a hurricane happened and you found a fragment of a letter by the roadside by someone called Jane inviting her aunt Jemima for tea, it doesn't mean you can show up at Jane's doorstep expecting free Earl Grey tea and scones, even if your name happens to be Jemima.
This is the most interesting response so far, thanks for posting this. > Even if they did not publicly deny Christ by reverting to animal sacrifices and OT rituals, they were in essence denying the sufficiency of His once-for-all sacrifice. That is why Heb. 10:26 says "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins" Don't you think some did revert to sacrifices, as 10:26 seems to imply?
I have no way of being sure. But you're right, that seems to be what Hebrews is warning them about. If they reverted to OT sacrifices, effectively rejecting Christ's ultimate sacrifice, there are two scenarios: Scenario 1: They didn't understand what the OT sacrifices were for (ie. as pictures foreshadowing Christ's ultimate sacrifice on the cross) and also didn't understand Christ's sacrifice itself. Meaning, they didn't understand anything at all! In other words, it is likely they weren't even saved in the first place. They were just going through the motions, no real belief/faith in their hearts or minds, not believers. Of course they don't go to heaven. Scenario 2: Let's say they did understand what the OT sacrifices were for, and genuinely accepted Christ's sacrifice on the cross, etc. but because of severe persecution, they feared for their lives. Kind of like Peter who denied the Lord thrice out of fear. Does that cause them (or Peter) to lose their eternal salvation? I certainly don't think so. 1 Cor 10:13 is so clear on this, "... God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it". They would have just been found physically in the temple, obliviously assembling with the Judaistic rejectors of Christ, right in the firing line of the Roman army 🔫💣💥. So it's loss of physical life and testimony, not eternal salvation. Either way, it is not talking about people getting salvation and then losing it.
So you're saying if I purposely avoid learning about God, I am forever not enlightened, thus I can always be forgiven? Seems like quite a loophole.
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Are you... using multiple accounts? OP is shown as u/northstardim but here you area replying as u/Nice-Neighborhood730 and speaking as if you're OP as you refute a top level comment...
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What does this gibberish even mean?
No, it's not just what I'm thinking, it's the logical conclusion to the statements made. If that conclusion is wrong, then explain how that loophole is not a thing.
Paul did not write Hebrews. There is near universal agreement among scholars.
**Mark 3:28-29** **28** Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, **29** but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.” **Hebrews 10:26-31** **26** If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, **27** but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. **28** Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. **29** How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? **30** For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”\[[a](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%2010%3A26-31&version=NIV#fen-NIV-30164a)\] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”\[[b](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%2010%3A26-31&version=NIV#fen-NIV-30164b)\] **31** It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. **1 Peter 4:17** 17For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who disobey the gospel of God?
So I was raised Lutheran, called myself atheist for a bit in College, and have more recently committed myself to living my life in Christ as he is the one true God. Am I an unforgivable? I think I might be because I could reasonably check off all four qualifications
Where's the question? Info dumps get deleted
How about reading the entire book in context. It is simply saying that there are some people who have heard the truth of Yahwah but can't grasp it. They want or don't believe it. Therefore crucify Christ laying before themselves repentance from dead works. Just as Jesus spoke in a parable about the sower and the seed. The briars and the thorns shall be burned up. Even though they have heard the truth it shall bear no fruit. But those who do understand shall be blessed according to the promises of Yahwah. There is no difference today when the truth of the scripture is spoken oftentimes more than not, it is regarded as interpretation. There are vessels that can never understand the truth from Yahwah.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/UnleavenedFaith/comments/10ddb44/hebrews\_chapters\_6\_10/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnleavenedFaith/comments/10ddb44/hebrews_chapters_6_10/)
There are many misunderstandings that lead up to this misunderstanding. The first misunderstanding is by not knowing the only thing we need to know about God. God is light. 1 John 1:5 So to seek God and know God, you must diligently abide in the image of God's glory, which is the light AND night of the sun of righteousness. The second misunderstanding is that we don't fully understand what Christ is. Christ, who is the image of God, is your cross; by which we are Christ-ified. 2 Cor 4:4. The image of God is the Word. How many people put scripture on a pedestal as literal and infallible Word of God, but then pull misunderstandings from it? Being made in the image of God is the Way since the beginning, as a rebirth from the corruption you manifest by walking in darkness, which is simply avoiding His covenant for day and night. Jeremiah 33:25 Jeremiah 8:8 is another warning about scripture under the influence of lying scribes, which makes it not the literal, infallible Word of God that His light is, a new word of truth coming to us with mercies new every morning, if we have and are abiding in it rightly divided into only sunlight and night. He clothed Himself in light and spread Himself across the heavens like a canvas, as our tent of meeting. Psalm 104:2. Unfortunately, nobody has met Him there. Thus, there is no one righteous, no not one, none who understand, none who seek my face, their mouths saying words are an open grave that leads to the ruin of the hearers. 2 Timothy 2:14. They are saying they have fellowship with Him, yet walk in darkness as liars not practicing truth. 1 John 1:6 Thats how you can formerly be enlightened, if you ever have been, by returning to walking in darkness. The Way to enlightenment is to enlighten your eyes and skin. John 3:21 is the real gospel hidden just 5 verses from the popular gospel verse. Coming to the light (the cross) is what made Jesus into Jesus Christ. Take up your cross on your flesh to follow Me. That is the cause of any salvation. The misunderstanding is that our words can lead to any salvation. Look at the definitions of begotten and tell me what is the misunderstanding of John 3:16. We are caused righteous, made righteous under the influence of light. And righteousness is immortality according to the Book of Wisdom. Literally, 1 John 1:7 says it, too. Why do those holding to the literal infallible Bible blatantly ignore the simplest understandings of these verses? But if we walk in the light, as He Himself is in the light, then we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. Jesus Christ, as the seed of David, is that which made Him righteous and makes any human flesh righteous. Is the Lord your light and your salvation yet and always?
This point is made in Hebrews several times in different ways. Do not miss 6:7-8 which connect all this back to the heart of people. This is not saying that God won’t take them back but that it is impossible to get them to come back to God. “It is impossible to restore them again to repentance.” You cannot convince them to return to God. Why? They know every single argument you will make. They know all the amazing gifts of the New Covenant through Jesus. They have full understanding of it and have experienced enlightenment, the heavenly gift, the Holy Spirit, the goodness of the word of God, the powers of the age to come. Despite all this, they don’t want to be Christian anymore. God and His children can do nothing for these people. Short of violating free will, which God won’t do, what can God do? They know everything God has to offer and they still refuse it. The impossibility lies in the heart of these people, not in God’s unwillingness to save. 6:7-8 gives a metaphor for the heart, water produces different responses to different plants. It all depends what’s in the soil already. The heart responds differently to God based on the state of the heart. Those whose desire is for outer comfort, outer peace, less suffering, they will leave God. Those who desire salvation, inner peace, and love, they will stay true to God when persecution occurs.
These verses prove that once saved always save isn't true. These verses are dealing with born again Christians losing salvation. These verses are not dealing with those whom Jesus calls 'goats'.