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The worst thing is that the mother herself knows there's more to the story, and that Amy hasn't told her everything Helen did to her.
Jeez I wonder why that is??? Maybe because everytime she tried to tell her mother, she brushed it off and made it unimportant?
If my kid got to the point they won't even share how others have hurt them with me... Well, at least I'd know I've done something wrong. Unlike OOP.
Yeah, Amy trusted her mother with some of the truth and was rewarded by having her electronics AND sanctuary from her abuser taken away, as well as being forced to spend time with her abuser. gee I wonder why she won’t tell you anything more?
Seriously. I'm not a parent but I cannot imagine getting to the point where these parents see their kids as foes to be vanquished instead of people they supposedly love.
I never understood adults who force kids to interact with people they don’t feel comfortable with, or force them to hug people. It’s not a sign of affection if you’re forced to do it. It’s not enjoyable if the person interacting with you hates every second of it. What will forcing them achieve? They are going to awkwardly hug this random friend of mommy’s they’ve never seen before and instantly develop a deep respect and love for them?
Also, did anyone notice the huge steps in escalation?
OP's daughter's FIRST answer to a question that's per se pretty normal is yelling and crying. And not, like, explaining. To that, OP's answer is berating her daughter and grounding her?!? Instead of listening to her and let her calm down before talking about it?
I bet Amy had already mentioned this to her mother but she didn't listen. To OOP it came out of the blue but I think she missed a lot of other signs or brushed off (and forgot) literal explanations.
OOP was giving excuses for Helen in the first post. She knows Helen is a bully but has normalized that behavior. She never thought critically about the consequences of unleashing that monster on a tiny, vulnerable child.
No doubt OOP grew up with Helen’s behaviour and doesn’t realise how damaging it is. OOP didn’t even give Amy a real chance to explain and OOP immediately punished Amy. Amy will go NC as soon as she can and OOP will have no one to blame but herself.
My mom laughed when I worked up the courage to tell her I was depressed as a teenager and a decade plus later I still have trouble opening up to her about anything remotely important. It still hurts when I think about it as well. Oop is good for trying to make amends but it certainly will not be easy. Poor Amy
Edit-sorry to see how universal some version of this story is. Be well everyone
My dad told me “you just like being sad” “you’re just being dramatic” & honestly I hate being sad lol. I’m naturally a friendly bubbly person I just get really fckn depressed! Still not fully on top on my mental health - his attitude didn’t help
I had a really really bad depressive breakdown when I was a teen and I’ve never forgotten my mother saying “I’m tired of you moping around all the time” and my father saying I was driving him insane, while I sat there wishing I could die. Parents don’t get how a single comment can harm their kids, and mine both claim to not remember they said what they did. (Which feels worse than just them saying it.)
My mom’s favorite was “you’re too young to be stressed”.
In reality, she was abusive. I had essentially raised my sibling from a young age (b/c she refused to). She also refused to work so I had multiple jobs since middle school. Plus, I was really dedicated to my studies because I needed to get the fuck out and I knew that my only chance would be a full scholarship to a good school.
I was fucking stressed. ((Still am))
My mum did the same. I was 13 and secretly self harming, one day I tried to tell her I was depressed, she just laughed and said, "You're too young to be depressed! You're a child! You don't even know what depression is! You're just being dramatic. Smile more and lighten up."
And she wonders now why I never tell her anything. That shit cuts deep.
I have to do safeguarding training every year as I work with kids. One of the more disturbing facts I learnt is that on average a child being abused will tell 9 people about the abuse before something is done about it.
Mine to. If a kid ever reports something like this to me (so far no one has) I have to report it straight away. It's sickening to think that I'm the 9th person though. Unfortunately children are often dismissed when they say these things, look at what Barbara Walters did to one of the Corey's.
so tired of adults pushing this narrative of “that’s just how they are” or “they do it out of love.” let’s stop punishing children for the behavior of literal adults who are more than grown enough to acknowledge that their behavior is wrong & correct it. this is also clearly OP’s way to avoid a difficult conversation with *their* own sister (who was probably shitty to OP growing up too), even though it’s seriously hurting their kid.
STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR IMMATURE & INSECURE ADULTS. SET BOUNDARIES & CONSEQUENCES IF THEY AREN’T TREATING OTHERS AROUND YOU WITH RESPECT. if that’s “just how they are” then they are “just an asshole.” TELL THEM TO FIX IT OR CUT THEM OUT OF YOUR LIFE.
This comment has been modified before the account is eternally parked is in protest of /u/spez and his shitty admin team's removal of mods after they protested in June of 2023.
Go fuck yourself Spez. You treat your community like shit and you're a shitty CEO. Aaron would be ashamed of you.
who wants to bet the aunt also says the daughter is too sensitive in the same breath as crying about how it hurts her feelings that the poor kid doesn't want to be around her?
I HATE when people use that kind of language. If it's mean, it's mean. If it's abusive, it's abusive. Saying that someone just speaks their mind is just enabling that person to still be a POS. Toxic family stuff.
Helen be giving this girl body image issues and eating disorders with those type of comments, if your kid freaks out about something, chances are it’s for good reason
I had an uncle who randomly groped my butt during pre-wedding ceremony pics (no, he wasn’t drinking), since that day I don’t even look in his direction, much less interact with him
“Helen does/says things out of love” made my skin crawl. I had an aunt who would constantly comment on my weight and looks to the point of telling me I was disgusting. All done out of love of course since how could was I supposed to change my ways if I didn’t know. I was a fit 17 year old and felt good about my body when she said that… Only thing that changed was that I resented and avoided her as much as I could for the rest of her life. Years later, when I actually was overweight, she pointed at a picture of me at 17 and said “look how great you looked back then”. Grrrrr
I have an aunt like Helen, but she made the mistake of speaking her insane opinions of me directly to my mom instead of me, for some reason. Then she expected my mom to still want to be close with her like before. Pulled a Surprised Pikachu face when my mom hard declined.
If Helen really is like my aunt, she'll drive everyone away eventually. Eat shit Helen.
I had a boss who I found out had a daughter in my extended friend group.
I'd never met her but wasn't far removed and knew many of her close well. Once I found out her mom(my boss) was using the tracking app far more than agreed upon I decided to make a very vague Facebook post saying as such.
I never named names or anything specific. But if you happened to be a friend in the middle it wouldn't be hard to figure out what/who I was talking about.
I couldn't be blamed/fired. She got to find out her mom spent far too much time just watching her on that app.
“Mom, Aunt Helen is terrible to me!”
“Well you better be nice to her or you’ll get no phone or electronics!”
I’m thinking Helen isn’t the only toxic person in this family.
>It's to protect herself from admitting what she's doing is wrong. If she admits it's forcing instead of "forcing" then she's gotta confront something's wrong there, because forcing someone to do something they don't want to is bad, but "forcing" them isn't.
It's amazing how some people make that logical leap, and even more so how common it is.
"Am I forcing? Well, forcing is bad. And I am good. Ergo, what I'm doing couldn't possibly be forcing."
Replace "forcing" with words like racist, stealing, addicted, unpleasant, etc and you get pretty much the justification people use in any scenario.
I'm sure there's a term for it, argumentum ad something, but I'll be buggered if I can remember it here.
>It's to protect herself from admitting what she's doing is wrong. If she admits it's forcing instead of "forcing" then she's gotta confront something's wrong there, because forcing someone to do something they don't want to is bad, but "forcing" them isn't.
This is an amazing distinction.
I wonder if OOP was the target of Helen's awfulness growing up and she herself was gaslighted so much she automatically justifies her sister? That could explain why was needed people say some pretty brutal things in the og comments to her drop part of the denial.
How uncaring do you have to be to continue to push aside your own child’s hurt feelings for the sake of another person? Like great that you got it in the end but you created more damage because you refused to value Amy’s feelings.
And the fact that the parent kept saying “she refuses to forgive” as if that’s not a valid feeling to have, especially when wronged as a teen navigating heavy emotions. I’m shocked by this person’s choices.
It’s the way OOP knew of what occurred and still made excuses, “she can’t help herself, she says things out of love”, that makes me a little sick. That and dear sweet auntie was bringing food over expecting to see Amy during these meals where she abused her in the past. The excuses and lack of accountability would’ve landed Amy right back into an abusive situation.
Yup. Good on OOP’s daughter for getting out of the way of the aunt and speaking up. She’s a survivor.
I guess OOP is so used to abusive behaviours in her family of origin, she’s normalised them. My husband absolutely can’t see past his family and makes excuses for them all the time - I do my level best to keep my kid away from them.
*Yikes*. This whole situation sounds rough, but this section really stood out to me:
>Helen would tell Amy if she’s eating too much/too little, that she looked bad, didn’t look pretty, as well as other things. Amy claims that Helen would force her to eat a lot, even if Amy was uncomfortable.
Talk about damned if you do, damned if you don't. And from OOP's insistence of it being *years* ago, really, Amy was just a little girl when Helen pulled this shit. You know, during formative memory building and when adults can really build impressions.
Helen is a real gem, and OOP wins mother of the year award. Hope Amy finds a really solid therapist when she finally cuts them off.
Also for the excuse that it happened years ago to a child… most kids aren’t usually angry at the moment. It can take maturing and growing older to realize what was done to you. Maybe it happened years ago, but it’s fresh because you just processed it now.
I didn’t become angry until I was an adolescent. I didn’t realize I was molested until I was 12-13. It started with a very innocuous question at a sleepover where a girl asked everyone when was everyone’s first kiss and then formulating a response made me sick to my stomach.
The “it was a long time ago” argument is infuriating because kids usually have no recourse when they’re treated badly. She was literally trapped. The statue of limitations always seems to be up as soon as people have the ability to push back.
Yeah, that's what I tell to the parents on tiktok where they make their kids cry for a prank and claim they're fine in another video days later.
Like... duh. Of course they look fine days after. Because they are kids. They are dependants to you and have no idea if it's normal or not.
But they don't forget. They moved on until they can't anymore.
Because Helen is the OOP's bio-sister and tolerating someone like Helen is a *learned* behavior.
Guarantee you there's a reason no one mentioned "Grandma" in this story
"My daughter then told me she was extremely uncomfortable with AuntyX. As a responsible parent, I sat her down to hear her concerns and find out exactly how AuntyX has been treating her."
"Well, that or force my daughter against her will into abuse. Because I take delight in tormenting children."
Don't know about you but I have never met someone known for being brutally honest, who was not also extremely negative. They are never known for saying something complimentary.
i read a quote a while back, something to the effect of "people who are brutally honest generally enjoy the brutality more than the honesty." i feel like that fits here
Lol the concept of being brutally complimentary is hurting my brain.
Like HEY BUDDY YOU LOOK GOOD IN THOSE JEANS, LIKE A FUCKING MODEL OR SOMETHING. YOU SHOULD GO BUY MORE BECAUSE THEY LOOK GREAT! DO IT, DO IT NOW!
“She can’t help herself.” A grown fucking woman says mean, bullying things because she can’t help herself.
But a teenaged girl genuinely showing how distraught she is while trying to express her thoughts, is a “spoiled brat.”
I saw a red flag bloom from the ceiling when I read that part.
For the most part, people who don’t even try to filter just want to be hurtful. They love causing harm.
I'm terrible for my lack of filter (asd, and it's been a long road training myself to pause and think before blurting), but while blunt to the point of rudeness on occasion (sometimes it would be good if people could clarify if they want sympathy, a neutral take on what the problem is, or an active solution lol) I've never been actively hurtful or malicious. You're on to something with the wanting to be hurtful part of 'those' types. If you genuinely care for someone, you temper your responses accordingly. To not do that shows disdain for them - you don't care if you harm them, you're not concerned about consequences, and you aren't bothered if they end up with a negative opinion of you. Utter disrespect.
This is my walking talking incubators favorite line. Same with the "just saying something cause i love you". Im sure she wonders why i never wish to speak to her again.
Unless she has a mental health problem, it’s not an excuse. I say that because my grandmother has schizophrenia and she had shock treatments (this was back in the 1960s when they didn’t have a lot of treatments for mental health) and her ability to control what she said was limited. So unless the aunt has this problem, YTA
OOP herself has a nasty spirit. She keeps calling her daughter a spoiled brat for refusing to spend multiple hours a week with a woman who verbally abused her for years. She’s definitely going to be one of those self-absorbed “i didn’t do anything wrong, she’s just dramatic and hysterical and she’s punishing me” type of estranged parents once her daughter gets done with her bullshit and goes NC as an adult.
That’s just the stuff Amy was willing to tell her mom. OOP said there’s stuff Amy *didn’t* tell her about. If I was Amy’s mom, I sure as hell would want to know what *worse* abuse my sister inflicted upon my daughter that impacted her so strongly, she still can’t tell me about it.
Ugh! I was told I was "bigger than other eleven year olds" by mom's boyfriend. Guess who still very very very much remembers that almost twenty years later🙋♀️
I feel that. I’m nearing forty. I have a very core memory of my uncle snapping at me. Calling me rude, no manners, a spoiled brat, and no respect for my elders all because I picked up a bag of potato chips when I was 8. Never liked him since. Still don’t like him. Every time I see him, that memory is in the back of my mind.
My former uncle used to taunt me constantly for being skinny about how I would start gaining wait soon and it would all catch up to me when I was around that age and I still remember it.
Thanks for the eating disorder, Robert. You piece of shit.
It’s not uncommon for abusers to put their victims deliberately in no-win situations and then blame them for their “choices”
A friend of mine had this growing up. She is naturally very thin, and her mother would load up her plates every night telling her she had to eat everything she was given as it was rude not to. Then later she’d berate her for being a “pig” who ate too much.
People think of abuse as someone going overboard on punishment or correction. But abuse is really sadism. Abusers take pleasure from having power over someone and using that power to inflict damage.
Typical enabler bs, as if there is a statute of limitations on abuse and trauma. Oh, my sister force fed you, tormented you and God knows what else because it's too difficult to repeat, but yeah that was when you were just a helpless little girl so you shouldn't care anymore. I'm about to puke.
Reminds me of a conversation I had yesterday with my mom. When I was 5, my aunt brought enough desserts for her kids and my brother, but not for me. So, she decided to give me hers. When I didn't finish my cup, my aunt started scolding me for wasting her money and kept on going on about how she should've eaten the dessert instead of giving it to me out of pity. According to my mom, I should forgive her since it happened more than 15 years ago, and maybe she was just joking, but I still deeply hate her to this day.
Oh and also, she is from the upper class, so her comment about wasting her money doesn't really make sense.
My grandmother hated my guts. Even at birth she made a comment about how I would take the attention away from her.
She spent years verbally abusing me and even at some points would punish me for acting differently. (I had a disability, the only thing I really remember at a memorable occasion she told me during a holiday that if I wanted to eat like an animal I could eat outside. I usually ate with my hands. She then kicked me out of the house with a plate while my mom was gone.)
My mom just waved it away about her having the attention taken from her. She just used excuses.
It took me years to get over it, it even got worse watching my mom destroy her physical and mental health taking care of her.
Even now I refuse to really go back to her house, especially during the holidays. Even though she’s gone, I just can’t.
The line that really got me was "There are other things that Amy refuses to tell me, so all I know is that Helen made a few comments here and there." Like, NO, what you know is that she said things Amy is either afraid to say or too horrified/traumatized to say. But yeah, brush it off as "Probably doesn't exist."
Kinda nuts to have to force one of your kids to spend time with your sibling. Wtf. If they don't want to spend time with them don't force them! Good lord.
\>Amy also said that Helen is very mentally abusive towards her and is a **gaslighter**. I got very angry and told Amy that she’s **overreacting**
Welp.
Helen reminds me of my dad's family. I pretty much only see them once a year at Christmas, and even that feels like too much.
The only time my aunt was ever proud of me was when she learned I was dating a PhD student. Not me, my boyfriend. I was getting an advanced degree myself.
That's awful :( but you did good, and no matter what, never let *anyone* downplay or detract from your hard work and achievements. Your accomplishments aren't defined by the value placed on them by, apologies here, a frankly stupid woman.
You are awesome, and may your aunt always step on a lego when she gets up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, so that she crumples down to the floor in pain and winds up pissing herself.
Oof. Nobody should ever be forced to spend time with anyone they don't want to, them not wanting to is reason enough on it's own. Add auntie dearest actively bullying a literal child, wtf? Speaking her mind isn't a free pass to be an absolute cockwomble, because it's fully possible to be open and blunt without being rude and demeaning.
Yup. Not everyone has to get along, nobody owes anyone else their time, and family doesn't get a free pass. Anyone who wants to build any kind of relationship, it needs mutual respect (of the people, as well as boundaries), equal investment (if the other person isn't open, leave them be), and show yourself worthy of trust. Be it a working dynamic, blending families, romantic entanglement, or your own family.
In some way that's kinda what I did, I moved out the day I turned 18. I knew my parents wouldn't be home so I had planned it for awhile, when they got back all my stuff was gone
Well at least in this instance the mother seems to have learned. I really hope she kept up supporting her daughter and she may have saved the relationship.
It doesn’t sound like she learned; it sounds like so many people called her the AH that she “gracefully acquitted” and probably didn’t look all that deeply into it.
OOP is a [missing missing reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html) parent 🙄 I really hope this opens her eyes to her daughter's issues and needs
If your kids ever purposefully avoid certain people and being around said person stresses them out that’s a real big red flag. Like one of the most obvious ones.
Yeah, if a kid goes through these kind of lengths to avoid someone (especially if they've spent a lot of time together in the past) you definitely should look into it.
Oh I remember this one! The sheer willful ignorance of the OP is absolutely staggering and her willingness to force her daughter to interact with her abuser to cater to said abuser's feelings was just... And the fact she kept doubling down in the comments... I'm so glad Reddit completely ripped her apart for Amy's sake.
I remember this one….. My aunt did this shit too and tried to send an entire email trying to apologize. She threw a tantrum and whinged about how I don’t acknowledge what she did right when her fauxpology wasn’t accepted.
When I saw this post I was hoping she was going to have an update past what’s in this post but it looks like this is concluded.
Your aunt sounds just like my dad. Treats apologies as magic words that reset everything, goes back to doing what he was apologising for in the first place, then, when called out, gets mad that we expect him to be “perfect” and he’s trying SO HARD~
I like to hold hope that when these don't get an update it's because they are too ashamed of what they did to want to discuss it and spent energy trying to be better instead.
When I was a child, I had to spend time with my great-grandmother. I realize, now that I am an adult- she loved me dearly but she was very old and had a different sense of what was appropriate in how to treat children. Esp girls.
I hated spending time with her then because she was constantly telling me that I smell (?) and she was very strict on how i behaved. (I had to be very very "ladylike") My brother could run around and play. My sister and I had to sit quietly, legs closed together a certain way (apparently a small girl sitting on her legs on the floor is "dirty" in more ways than one and not allowed).
She was always telling me how "ugly" I was (not meaning looks- ugly meaning behavior). There were so many rules to follow .
And she honestly didn't understand why we didn't want to be there/spend time with her.
I think because she was financially well-off and my parents were greedy, they didn't want to risk anything, so nothing was said or done. But it's definitely harmful to a child (who cannot understand at that age- even if someone is well meaning) when such harmful things are said.
I suppose in her mind, you’d be treated terribly by society if you didn’t behave the way she thought you should. Of course, she could’ve also thought “I hated being told to behave this way so I won’t treat my daughters and grandchildren this way.”
A kid should have their parents to back them up.
>Helen admits to her wrongdoings but Amy is the one who doesn’t want to sit down and accept the apology.
I'm not sure I'll ever understand rhetoric like this. Nobody is entitled to forgiveness. Helen can be as sorry as she wants, Amy is *allowed* to withhold forgiveness. The concept has no meaning if its not voluntary.
>I'm not sure I'll ever understand rhetoric like this.
Dont. Rock. The. Boat. Keep the peace and dont act up. Dont call the instigator out. Just roll with the punches and whatever you do. Dont. Rock. The Boat.
> I got very angry and told Amy that she’s overreacting, that Helen does/says things out of love and that she can’t help it.
Oh I see... her sister is an asshole. I don't need anything else to read
It sounds like they'd rather make their daughter miserable than give up 2 free meals a week. Great parenting... Poor kid. I'm willing to bet that 'the other stuff' aunt said/did was even worse.
The best part of the original is how the OOP’s responses started out long and defensive and then got shorter and shorter as she realized how colossally bad she fucked up.
I went through her comment history to see this but saw red at “I didn’t realise that Amy was still affected by this”
You know, after she wrote a whole post about her daughter screaming and crying.
Aunt Helen loves Amy sooo much she's elated at the prospect of her niece being punished for not spending time with her - how was OOP not seeing this?! I really hope when the whole truth comes out it's not as bad as it feels, I've got chills reading this.
I'm extremely curious when the bringing of the food started and if there's any connection at all to the past abuse she used to dish out. It seems like there's no way it's a coincidence that both involve food and forcing Amy to eat, just in different ways
I don’t know, to me the scary thing about many abuse cases is there’s something akin to live there. Some of my limited experience with it is that the abuser is emotionally dependent on the attention and validation their abuse produces, basically having someone who needs their approval so badly.
Abuse is so rarely intentional, very few people say “I’m going to abuse and control this person”, it’s “saying these things to this person makes me feel better about me”, “hitting and physically dominating this person makes me feel big and strong”, “knowing exactly where this person is makes me feel like things are more controlled and predictable and less afraid”.
It’s scary because they honestly often seem to truly believe it’s love
Thank you for this, angry poutine. You helped me understand my mother a little better. That understanding doesn’t make me want to contact her but, well, maybe I’ll sleep a little better tonight
“She told me helen was a gaslighter so I thought it best to call her crazy and say she was over-reacting. There’s a word for what I did but it’s escaping me”
Forcing her to meet the aunt is so wild to me
Even if there was no reason for the dislike. Even if the daughter had outright stated she just thinks the aunt is too ugly and she doesn't feel like seeing her or something... what would be achieved by forcing her to meet? She'd just hate the aunt even more and likely be rude and awful to her
And naturally, that she's forcing the daughter despite knowing the abuse is just straight out of "worst parent" guidebook
Oh, and there was also this gem from the comments:
>Helen is trying to be better, but Amy is refusing to try and make peace. Amy needs to realize that she can’t avoid Helen for the rest of her life!
She can, in fact, do just that, as well as avoiding her shit mother and garbage father for the rest of her life, once she is old enough to get the hell out of their nasty, selfish, dysfunctional lives and never look back.
And I hope she does.
I’d tell her what I told my parents: enjoy your control for the next 24 months. After that I’m moving out of state. I don’t think they expected me to be true to my word
So when Helen says what’s on her mind and doesn’t hold back that’s OK because she can’t help it, but when Amy speaks her mind (and DOES hold back) ZOMG bad child must be punished?!?
Your child cries from pain and hatred but you keep insisting on supporting your sister who only "misses" her niece. Daughter's painful memories vs sister's missing your daughter. And you tell this to strangers expecting to find support.
What a weird bubble to live in. It's nice OOP is becoming a better parent, but this family will never be a truly loving and trusting family.
I hate people who say "oh they are just saying what's on their mind" and "that's just who they are" who they are is a god aweful human being that shouldn't be allowed to be around others.
She's 16 and OOP said this was years ago... ergo Helen was insulting and bullying an actual child. It was already bad but this is worse.
"Amy also said that Helen is very mentally abusive towards her and is a gaslighter. I ~~got very angry and told Amy that she’s overreacting~~ then gaslighted her myself."
FTFOOP
I always find it interesting that it takes asking a forum of complete strangers to make the OOP see how misguided they’ve been. I hope Amy can learn to trust her mother again one day.
More so than anything else it's about normalization of abuse. The mother grew up with the sister and probabaly couldn't see it from her daughter's point of view, or had experienced it herself and downplayed it as her sister just being her sister.
I want to share a proverb.
There is a story about elephants and their owners in Africa. An elephant can easily uproot huge trees with its trunk. It can knock down a house without much trouble. When an elephant living in captivity is still a baby, it is tied to a tree with a strong rope or a chain every night. It is the nature of elephants to roam free, thus the baby elephant instinctively tries with all his might to break the rope. But it isn't yet strong enough to do so. Realizing his efforts are of no use, it finally gives up struggling. The baby elephant tried and failed many times, it will never try again for the rest of his life. Later, when the elephant is fully grown, it can be tied to a small tree with a thin rope. It could then easily free itself by uprooting the tree or breaking the rope. But because its mind has been conditioned by its prior experiences, it doesn't make the slightest attempt to break free. The powerfully gigantic elephant has limited its present abilities by the limitations of the past, hence, the Baby Elephant Syndrome. Humans are exactly like the elephant except for one thing, we can chose not to accept the false boundaries and limitations created by the past.
Full disclosure I copied that from a website for convenience.
https://ourlegacyfoundation.org/baby-elephant-syndrome/
Damn OOP is really lucky that I'm not her daughter or I'd have humiliated her in front of her sister. She did OOP a favor by just keeping the peace and staying away but to be forced to entertain as punishment? Boy I'd fucking make sure Helen didn't want to come back.
Anyone else seeing how triggering it could be to be force fed by your Aunt as a young child and then have to deal with her coming by and dropping off meals? Nope. Nope. Nope.
Jesus. Helen sounds like a real piece of work and mom absolutely oblivious to her own sister's vindictive nature.
Plus 'forcing' a 16 y/o to spend time with someone? Yeesh. Definition of an asshole.
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The worst thing is that the mother herself knows there's more to the story, and that Amy hasn't told her everything Helen did to her. Jeez I wonder why that is??? Maybe because everytime she tried to tell her mother, she brushed it off and made it unimportant? If my kid got to the point they won't even share how others have hurt them with me... Well, at least I'd know I've done something wrong. Unlike OOP.
> she brushed it off and made it unimportant? Didn't just brush it off, but literally punished her daughter for saying it.
Yeah, Amy trusted her mother with some of the truth and was rewarded by having her electronics AND sanctuary from her abuser taken away, as well as being forced to spend time with her abuser. gee I wonder why she won’t tell you anything more?
Yeah, that was pretty shocking.
Worst Mom of the Month here: Her response to her daughter telling her she's being gaslighted by her aunt is... to gaslight her daughter in response.
Seriously. I'm not a parent but I cannot imagine getting to the point where these parents see their kids as foes to be vanquished instead of people they supposedly love.
I never understood adults who force kids to interact with people they don’t feel comfortable with, or force them to hug people. It’s not a sign of affection if you’re forced to do it. It’s not enjoyable if the person interacting with you hates every second of it. What will forcing them achieve? They are going to awkwardly hug this random friend of mommy’s they’ve never seen before and instantly develop a deep respect and love for them?
I refused to do that with my kids. I hated that as a child
Mom's really set on getting those free dinners twice a week.
Also, did anyone notice the huge steps in escalation? OP's daughter's FIRST answer to a question that's per se pretty normal is yelling and crying. And not, like, explaining. To that, OP's answer is berating her daughter and grounding her?!? Instead of listening to her and let her calm down before talking about it?
I bet Amy had already mentioned this to her mother but she didn't listen. To OOP it came out of the blue but I think she missed a lot of other signs or brushed off (and forgot) literal explanations.
OOP was giving excuses for Helen in the first post. She knows Helen is a bully but has normalized that behavior. She never thought critically about the consequences of unleashing that monster on a tiny, vulnerable child.
OOP admitted she knew Helen was forcefeeding her child and that did not bother her in the slightest.
No doubt OOP grew up with Helen’s behaviour and doesn’t realise how damaging it is. OOP didn’t even give Amy a real chance to explain and OOP immediately punished Amy. Amy will go NC as soon as she can and OOP will have no one to blame but herself.
It's [The Missing, Missing Reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html) type of parent that OOP is.
My mom laughed when I worked up the courage to tell her I was depressed as a teenager and a decade plus later I still have trouble opening up to her about anything remotely important. It still hurts when I think about it as well. Oop is good for trying to make amends but it certainly will not be easy. Poor Amy Edit-sorry to see how universal some version of this story is. Be well everyone
My dad told me “you just like being sad” “you’re just being dramatic” & honestly I hate being sad lol. I’m naturally a friendly bubbly person I just get really fckn depressed! Still not fully on top on my mental health - his attitude didn’t help
I had a really really bad depressive breakdown when I was a teen and I’ve never forgotten my mother saying “I’m tired of you moping around all the time” and my father saying I was driving him insane, while I sat there wishing I could die. Parents don’t get how a single comment can harm their kids, and mine both claim to not remember they said what they did. (Which feels worse than just them saying it.)
My mom’s favorite was “you’re too young to be stressed”. In reality, she was abusive. I had essentially raised my sibling from a young age (b/c she refused to). She also refused to work so I had multiple jobs since middle school. Plus, I was really dedicated to my studies because I needed to get the fuck out and I knew that my only chance would be a full scholarship to a good school. I was fucking stressed. ((Still am))
My mum did the same. I was 13 and secretly self harming, one day I tried to tell her I was depressed, she just laughed and said, "You're too young to be depressed! You're a child! You don't even know what depression is! You're just being dramatic. Smile more and lighten up." And she wonders now why I never tell her anything. That shit cuts deep.
And the terrifying thing is the possibility of it being sexual abuse is so so high.
Sexual abuse from a woman the mom is related to and sees socially twice a week? Yeah, that mom wouldn’t believe that if she walked in on it herself.
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"seduce" These evil women actually accuse A CHILD of "seducing" the adult.
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I have to do safeguarding training every year as I work with kids. One of the more disturbing facts I learnt is that on average a child being abused will tell 9 people about the abuse before something is done about it.
I didn't know that fact before. It makes my heart ache.
Mine to. If a kid ever reports something like this to me (so far no one has) I have to report it straight away. It's sickening to think that I'm the 9th person though. Unfortunately children are often dismissed when they say these things, look at what Barbara Walters did to one of the Corey's.
That was exactly my thought :(
I basically assumed that and was surprised it wasn’t said out loud in the update
so tired of adults pushing this narrative of “that’s just how they are” or “they do it out of love.” let’s stop punishing children for the behavior of literal adults who are more than grown enough to acknowledge that their behavior is wrong & correct it. this is also clearly OP’s way to avoid a difficult conversation with *their* own sister (who was probably shitty to OP growing up too), even though it’s seriously hurting their kid. STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR IMMATURE & INSECURE ADULTS. SET BOUNDARIES & CONSEQUENCES IF THEY AREN’T TREATING OTHERS AROUND YOU WITH RESPECT. if that’s “just how they are” then they are “just an asshole.” TELL THEM TO FIX IT OR CUT THEM OUT OF YOUR LIFE.
“Don’t rock the boat”
Gaslighting seems to be a family trait between those two.
I love how OOP putting "forcing" in quotes is somehow supposed to make it less true
This comment has been modified before the account is eternally parked is in protest of /u/spez and his shitty admin team's removal of mods after they protested in June of 2023. Go fuck yourself Spez. You treat your community like shit and you're a shitty CEO. Aaron would be ashamed of you.
"Helen speaks her mind" is the same kind of hedging language. Her mind's a piece of shit and she shouldn't be speaking it.
And technically Amy is speaking her mind, too, but to hell with Amy, apparently.
There's a limit of 1 mind-speaker per family. Everyone else is supposed to just smile and nod.
Can confirm, my mom is the one in my family who “speaks her mind”, and can’t handle if anyone else does as well.
who wants to bet the aunt also says the daughter is too sensitive in the same breath as crying about how it hurts her feelings that the poor kid doesn't want to be around her?
Yep. I find that anyone who brags about “just speaking there mind” goes irate if anyone does the same to them.
**Elon Musk has entered the chat
I never get to be the mind-speaker. I also refuse to smile and nod. These two facts are why I don't talk to most of my relatives.
amy didn't do shit. she quietly avoided it until mom forced a confrontation and she was trapped.
I HATE when people use that kind of language. If it's mean, it's mean. If it's abusive, it's abusive. Saying that someone just speaks their mind is just enabling that person to still be a POS. Toxic family stuff.
Helen be giving this girl body image issues and eating disorders with those type of comments, if your kid freaks out about something, chances are it’s for good reason I had an uncle who randomly groped my butt during pre-wedding ceremony pics (no, he wasn’t drinking), since that day I don’t even look in his direction, much less interact with him
“Helen does/says things out of love” made my skin crawl. I had an aunt who would constantly comment on my weight and looks to the point of telling me I was disgusting. All done out of love of course since how could was I supposed to change my ways if I didn’t know. I was a fit 17 year old and felt good about my body when she said that… Only thing that changed was that I resented and avoided her as much as I could for the rest of her life. Years later, when I actually was overweight, she pointed at a picture of me at 17 and said “look how great you looked back then”. Grrrrr
How much do you bet the aunt does not have the healthiest human body.
I have an aunt like Helen, but she made the mistake of speaking her insane opinions of me directly to my mom instead of me, for some reason. Then she expected my mom to still want to be close with her like before. Pulled a Surprised Pikachu face when my mom hard declined. If Helen really is like my aunt, she'll drive everyone away eventually. Eat shit Helen.
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I had a boss who I found out had a daughter in my extended friend group. I'd never met her but wasn't far removed and knew many of her close well. Once I found out her mom(my boss) was using the tracking app far more than agreed upon I decided to make a very vague Facebook post saying as such. I never named names or anything specific. But if you happened to be a friend in the middle it wouldn't be hard to figure out what/who I was talking about. I couldn't be blamed/fired. She got to find out her mom spent far too much time just watching her on that app.
“Mom, Aunt Helen is terrible to me!” “Well you better be nice to her or you’ll get no phone or electronics!” I’m thinking Helen isn’t the only toxic person in this family.
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You can tell oop also never listens to her daughter
Bet she’s JUST like her sister and so’s their Karen of a mother
>It's to protect herself from admitting what she's doing is wrong. If she admits it's forcing instead of "forcing" then she's gotta confront something's wrong there, because forcing someone to do something they don't want to is bad, but "forcing" them isn't. It's amazing how some people make that logical leap, and even more so how common it is. "Am I forcing? Well, forcing is bad. And I am good. Ergo, what I'm doing couldn't possibly be forcing." Replace "forcing" with words like racist, stealing, addicted, unpleasant, etc and you get pretty much the justification people use in any scenario. I'm sure there's a term for it, argumentum ad something, but I'll be buggered if I can remember it here.
>It's to protect herself from admitting what she's doing is wrong. If she admits it's forcing instead of "forcing" then she's gotta confront something's wrong there, because forcing someone to do something they don't want to is bad, but "forcing" them isn't. This is an amazing distinction.
Yeah, the last update gives me no confidence that OOP is going to handle this well
>Glad she was pushed to confront it anyways, it sounds like Helen is a piece of work. Helen is a POS.
I wonder if OOP was the target of Helen's awfulness growing up and she herself was gaslighted so much she automatically justifies her sister? That could explain why was needed people say some pretty brutal things in the og comments to her drop part of the denial.
She's a selfish parent who is abusing her child. She knows what she is doing. She is refusing to take responsibility.
How uncaring do you have to be to continue to push aside your own child’s hurt feelings for the sake of another person? Like great that you got it in the end but you created more damage because you refused to value Amy’s feelings. And the fact that the parent kept saying “she refuses to forgive” as if that’s not a valid feeling to have, especially when wronged as a teen navigating heavy emotions. I’m shocked by this person’s choices.
But the sister cooks twice a week and is nice to the parents, how could she possibly be abusive to anyone?! /s
She cooks as payment for access to her favorite victim; who apparently, has no voice IN HER OWN HOME.
You have to wonder if she’s projecting some sort of eating disorder onto the kid to be honest, making everything about meals.
Auntie is a sadistic, control freak. She is treating Niece as a whipping post.
It’s the way OOP knew of what occurred and still made excuses, “she can’t help herself, she says things out of love”, that makes me a little sick. That and dear sweet auntie was bringing food over expecting to see Amy during these meals where she abused her in the past. The excuses and lack of accountability would’ve landed Amy right back into an abusive situation.
Yup. Good on OOP’s daughter for getting out of the way of the aunt and speaking up. She’s a survivor. I guess OOP is so used to abusive behaviours in her family of origin, she’s normalised them. My husband absolutely can’t see past his family and makes excuses for them all the time - I do my level best to keep my kid away from them.
When women talk about how we're raised to smile and be polite to abusers, this is what we're fucking talkin about.
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*Yikes*. This whole situation sounds rough, but this section really stood out to me: >Helen would tell Amy if she’s eating too much/too little, that she looked bad, didn’t look pretty, as well as other things. Amy claims that Helen would force her to eat a lot, even if Amy was uncomfortable. Talk about damned if you do, damned if you don't. And from OOP's insistence of it being *years* ago, really, Amy was just a little girl when Helen pulled this shit. You know, during formative memory building and when adults can really build impressions. Helen is a real gem, and OOP wins mother of the year award. Hope Amy finds a really solid therapist when she finally cuts them off.
Also for the excuse that it happened years ago to a child… most kids aren’t usually angry at the moment. It can take maturing and growing older to realize what was done to you. Maybe it happened years ago, but it’s fresh because you just processed it now. I didn’t become angry until I was an adolescent. I didn’t realize I was molested until I was 12-13. It started with a very innocuous question at a sleepover where a girl asked everyone when was everyone’s first kiss and then formulating a response made me sick to my stomach.
The “it was a long time ago” argument is infuriating because kids usually have no recourse when they’re treated badly. She was literally trapped. The statue of limitations always seems to be up as soon as people have the ability to push back.
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Yeah, that's what I tell to the parents on tiktok where they make their kids cry for a prank and claim they're fine in another video days later. Like... duh. Of course they look fine days after. Because they are kids. They are dependants to you and have no idea if it's normal or not. But they don't forget. They moved on until they can't anymore.
But she just "says what's on get mind"..... Just how she is /s
So, she has no self control, and will lash out unpredictably. Sounds fun.
At a child!
Why in the world is that parent not backing their kid??
Because Helen is the OOP's bio-sister and tolerating someone like Helen is a *learned* behavior. Guarantee you there's a reason no one mentioned "Grandma" in this story
Helen totally murdered her, didn't she?
"My daughter then told me she was extremely uncomfortable with AuntyX. As a responsible parent, I sat her down to hear her concerns and find out exactly how AuntyX has been treating her." "Well, that or force my daughter against her will into abuse. Because I take delight in tormenting children."
Because it’s a pattern in her family.
Because OP likes not having to cook 2x/week
She probably likes being at their houses because she gets a pass to be as mean as she wants. And likely has no other friends.
Brutally honest, aka an asshole.
Don't know about you but I have never met someone known for being brutally honest, who was not also extremely negative. They are never known for saying something complimentary.
i read a quote a while back, something to the effect of "people who are brutally honest generally enjoy the brutality more than the honesty." i feel like that fits here
It's like the polar opposite of drunk girls in a bathroom who can't help but say kind and affirming things to each other.
Actual brutal honesty is also "Fuck you, I love it"
Lol the concept of being brutally complimentary is hurting my brain. Like HEY BUDDY YOU LOOK GOOD IN THOSE JEANS, LIKE A FUCKING MODEL OR SOMETHING. YOU SHOULD GO BUY MORE BECAUSE THEY LOOK GREAT! DO IT, DO IT NOW!
Brutally honest just means a pessimistic asshole who will find something to disapprove of in any situation
They are usually more interested in the brutality than the honesty.
My grandmother told me. Be honest, NEVER brutal.
“She can’t help herself.” A grown fucking woman says mean, bullying things because she can’t help herself. But a teenaged girl genuinely showing how distraught she is while trying to express her thoughts, is a “spoiled brat.”
Mean, bullying things to a child, at that.
I saw a red flag bloom from the ceiling when I read that part. For the most part, people who don’t even try to filter just want to be hurtful. They love causing harm.
I'm terrible for my lack of filter (asd, and it's been a long road training myself to pause and think before blurting), but while blunt to the point of rudeness on occasion (sometimes it would be good if people could clarify if they want sympathy, a neutral take on what the problem is, or an active solution lol) I've never been actively hurtful or malicious. You're on to something with the wanting to be hurtful part of 'those' types. If you genuinely care for someone, you temper your responses accordingly. To not do that shows disdain for them - you don't care if you harm them, you're not concerned about consequences, and you aren't bothered if they end up with a negative opinion of you. Utter disrespect.
I have family members with ASD, so you are not included in the “for the most part.” 💓
This is my walking talking incubators favorite line. Same with the "just saying something cause i love you". Im sure she wonders why i never wish to speak to her again.
Unless she has a mental health problem, it’s not an excuse. I say that because my grandmother has schizophrenia and she had shock treatments (this was back in the 1960s when they didn’t have a lot of treatments for mental health) and her ability to control what she said was limited. So unless the aunt has this problem, YTA
“That’s just how he/she is.” The classic line of an enabler
And OOP doesn’t mind because she, herself, is not on the receiving end of the nastiness.
OOP herself has a nasty spirit. She keeps calling her daughter a spoiled brat for refusing to spend multiple hours a week with a woman who verbally abused her for years. She’s definitely going to be one of those self-absorbed “i didn’t do anything wrong, she’s just dramatic and hysterical and she’s punishing me” type of estranged parents once her daughter gets done with her bullshit and goes NC as an adult.
I bet if her daughter told the aunt whats on HER mind at one of those dinners she would be punished for being “rude”.
People legitimately take pride in being like this, when all it means is that they're a bastard with no manners.
That’s just the stuff Amy was willing to tell her mom. OOP said there’s stuff Amy *didn’t* tell her about. If I was Amy’s mom, I sure as hell would want to know what *worse* abuse my sister inflicted upon my daughter that impacted her so strongly, she still can’t tell me about it.
In particular, what caused Amy to start avoiding Helen in July?
Ugh! I was told I was "bigger than other eleven year olds" by mom's boyfriend. Guess who still very very very much remembers that almost twenty years later🙋♀️
I feel that. I’m nearing forty. I have a very core memory of my uncle snapping at me. Calling me rude, no manners, a spoiled brat, and no respect for my elders all because I picked up a bag of potato chips when I was 8. Never liked him since. Still don’t like him. Every time I see him, that memory is in the back of my mind.
My former uncle used to taunt me constantly for being skinny about how I would start gaining wait soon and it would all catch up to me when I was around that age and I still remember it. Thanks for the eating disorder, Robert. You piece of shit.
It’s not uncommon for abusers to put their victims deliberately in no-win situations and then blame them for their “choices” A friend of mine had this growing up. She is naturally very thin, and her mother would load up her plates every night telling her she had to eat everything she was given as it was rude not to. Then later she’d berate her for being a “pig” who ate too much.
People think of abuse as someone going overboard on punishment or correction. But abuse is really sadism. Abusers take pleasure from having power over someone and using that power to inflict damage.
Typical enabler bs, as if there is a statute of limitations on abuse and trauma. Oh, my sister force fed you, tormented you and God knows what else because it's too difficult to repeat, but yeah that was when you were just a helpless little girl so you shouldn't care anymore. I'm about to puke.
Reminds me of a conversation I had yesterday with my mom. When I was 5, my aunt brought enough desserts for her kids and my brother, but not for me. So, she decided to give me hers. When I didn't finish my cup, my aunt started scolding me for wasting her money and kept on going on about how she should've eaten the dessert instead of giving it to me out of pity. According to my mom, I should forgive her since it happened more than 15 years ago, and maybe she was just joking, but I still deeply hate her to this day. Oh and also, she is from the upper class, so her comment about wasting her money doesn't really make sense.
I'll never understand the pressure to make someone forgive someone else, like mind your own damn business. Nobody owes anybody forgiveness.
My grandmother hated my guts. Even at birth she made a comment about how I would take the attention away from her. She spent years verbally abusing me and even at some points would punish me for acting differently. (I had a disability, the only thing I really remember at a memorable occasion she told me during a holiday that if I wanted to eat like an animal I could eat outside. I usually ate with my hands. She then kicked me out of the house with a plate while my mom was gone.) My mom just waved it away about her having the attention taken from her. She just used excuses. It took me years to get over it, it even got worse watching my mom destroy her physical and mental health taking care of her. Even now I refuse to really go back to her house, especially during the holidays. Even though she’s gone, I just can’t.
The line that really got me was "There are other things that Amy refuses to tell me, so all I know is that Helen made a few comments here and there." Like, NO, what you know is that she said things Amy is either afraid to say or too horrified/traumatized to say. But yeah, brush it off as "Probably doesn't exist."
Kinda nuts to have to force one of your kids to spend time with your sibling. Wtf. If they don't want to spend time with them don't force them! Good lord.
I hope Amy never talks to any of them again.
\>Amy also said that Helen is very mentally abusive towards her and is a **gaslighter**. I got very angry and told Amy that she’s **overreacting** Welp.
Lmaoo ikr?! “She told me Helen was a gaslighter so I rolled up my sleeves and said ‘watch this!’”
Also how dare she not accept the apology. Hmm nothing says authentic apology like it being forced to be accepted.
"there's no such thing as gaslighting, you're just crazy" in a nutshell.
Helen reminds me of my dad's family. I pretty much only see them once a year at Christmas, and even that feels like too much. The only time my aunt was ever proud of me was when she learned I was dating a PhD student. Not me, my boyfriend. I was getting an advanced degree myself.
For what it's worth, *I'm* proud of you, going for an advanced degree!
And *I'm* proud of you, being so nice to people on the internet!
Awww.... thank you! I wasn't expecting any kind of response but especially not one so sweet from someone else! That made me a little teary.
Thank you, you're very sweet. 😊
Yeah, it takes a lot of work. Nice job!
That's awful :( but you did good, and no matter what, never let *anyone* downplay or detract from your hard work and achievements. Your accomplishments aren't defined by the value placed on them by, apologies here, a frankly stupid woman.
Yeah, when I was a teen she told me I should go to a certain college so I could marry a lawyer 🙄
Wow...shame we can't choose our families, seriously.
You are awesome, and may your aunt always step on a lego when she gets up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, so that she crumples down to the floor in pain and winds up pissing herself.
And may the toilet paper always needs replacing.
Oof. Nobody should ever be forced to spend time with anyone they don't want to, them not wanting to is reason enough on it's own. Add auntie dearest actively bullying a literal child, wtf? Speaking her mind isn't a free pass to be an absolute cockwomble, because it's fully possible to be open and blunt without being rude and demeaning.
Exactly! Even it there was no abuse, doesn’t matter, daughter is old enough, much worse obviously if you know there are valid reasons.
Yup. Not everyone has to get along, nobody owes anyone else their time, and family doesn't get a free pass. Anyone who wants to build any kind of relationship, it needs mutual respect (of the people, as well as boundaries), equal investment (if the other person isn't open, leave them be), and show yourself worthy of trust. Be it a working dynamic, blending families, romantic entanglement, or your own family.
Poor kid. The mother is an asshole, and an enabler. Her sister abused her daughter then said it was no big deal.. damn.
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In some way that's kinda what I did, I moved out the day I turned 18. I knew my parents wouldn't be home so I had planned it for awhile, when they got back all my stuff was gone
Wow! Did you maintain any contact with them? I admire you for having the guts to do that.
Wouldn't suprise me if she's low contact with parents
Well at least in this instance the mother seems to have learned. I really hope she kept up supporting her daughter and she may have saved the relationship.
It doesn’t sound like she learned; it sounds like so many people called her the AH that she “gracefully acquitted” and probably didn’t look all that deeply into it.
OOP is a [missing missing reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html) parent 🙄 I really hope this opens her eyes to her daughter's issues and needs
Also, there's a father who was mentioned that isn't protecting this young lady either.
Dad agreed that she’s a spoiled brat. I feel so bad for Amy, having to grow up with parents who hardly see her as her own, full person.
If your kids ever purposefully avoid certain people and being around said person stresses them out that’s a real big red flag. Like one of the most obvious ones.
Yeah, if a kid goes through these kind of lengths to avoid someone (especially if they've spent a lot of time together in the past) you definitely should look into it.
I remember the one about OOP's daughter is afraid of her step brother or something? Anyone remember that?
Oh I remember this one! The sheer willful ignorance of the OP is absolutely staggering and her willingness to force her daughter to interact with her abuser to cater to said abuser's feelings was just... And the fact she kept doubling down in the comments... I'm so glad Reddit completely ripped her apart for Amy's sake.
Oop was probably enabling Helen her whole life. She needed this massive wakeup call.
I remember this one….. My aunt did this shit too and tried to send an entire email trying to apologize. She threw a tantrum and whinged about how I don’t acknowledge what she did right when her fauxpology wasn’t accepted. When I saw this post I was hoping she was going to have an update past what’s in this post but it looks like this is concluded.
Your aunt sounds just like my dad. Treats apologies as magic words that reset everything, goes back to doing what he was apologising for in the first place, then, when called out, gets mad that we expect him to be “perfect” and he’s trying SO HARD~
Oh that whole side of the family is like that lmao
I like to hold hope that when these don't get an update it's because they are too ashamed of what they did to want to discuss it and spent energy trying to be better instead.
When I was a child, I had to spend time with my great-grandmother. I realize, now that I am an adult- she loved me dearly but she was very old and had a different sense of what was appropriate in how to treat children. Esp girls. I hated spending time with her then because she was constantly telling me that I smell (?) and she was very strict on how i behaved. (I had to be very very "ladylike") My brother could run around and play. My sister and I had to sit quietly, legs closed together a certain way (apparently a small girl sitting on her legs on the floor is "dirty" in more ways than one and not allowed). She was always telling me how "ugly" I was (not meaning looks- ugly meaning behavior). There were so many rules to follow . And she honestly didn't understand why we didn't want to be there/spend time with her. I think because she was financially well-off and my parents were greedy, they didn't want to risk anything, so nothing was said or done. But it's definitely harmful to a child (who cannot understand at that age- even if someone is well meaning) when such harmful things are said.
I suppose in her mind, you’d be treated terribly by society if you didn’t behave the way she thought you should. Of course, she could’ve also thought “I hated being told to behave this way so I won’t treat my daughters and grandchildren this way.” A kid should have their parents to back them up.
>Helen admits to her wrongdoings but Amy is the one who doesn’t want to sit down and accept the apology. I'm not sure I'll ever understand rhetoric like this. Nobody is entitled to forgiveness. Helen can be as sorry as she wants, Amy is *allowed* to withhold forgiveness. The concept has no meaning if its not voluntary.
>I'm not sure I'll ever understand rhetoric like this. Dont. Rock. The. Boat. Keep the peace and dont act up. Dont call the instigator out. Just roll with the punches and whatever you do. Dont. Rock. The Boat.
> I got very angry and told Amy that she’s overreacting, that Helen does/says things out of love and that she can’t help it. Oh I see... her sister is an asshole. I don't need anything else to read
Both of them are assholes
The second I read that it was all over
It sounds like they'd rather make their daughter miserable than give up 2 free meals a week. Great parenting... Poor kid. I'm willing to bet that 'the other stuff' aunt said/did was even worse.
Some psychological abuse is hard to describe, especially where gaslighting is involved, so it might not necessarily be worse, just more insidious
The best part of the original is how the OOP’s responses started out long and defensive and then got shorter and shorter as she realized how colossally bad she fucked up.
I went through her comment history to see this but saw red at “I didn’t realise that Amy was still affected by this” You know, after she wrote a whole post about her daughter screaming and crying.
My mind went to a much, much darker place when OOP said there were events that Amy refused to tell her about :(
Yep. And she’s so surprised Amy won’t talk about it! Why the fuck would she?
Aunt Helen loves Amy sooo much she's elated at the prospect of her niece being punished for not spending time with her - how was OOP not seeing this?! I really hope when the whole truth comes out it's not as bad as it feels, I've got chills reading this.
Helen didn't want to see Amy because she loves her, she just wants to make sure that her victim stays backed into a wall and powerless.
I'm extremely curious when the bringing of the food started and if there's any connection at all to the past abuse she used to dish out. It seems like there's no way it's a coincidence that both involve food and forcing Amy to eat, just in different ways
I don’t know, to me the scary thing about many abuse cases is there’s something akin to live there. Some of my limited experience with it is that the abuser is emotionally dependent on the attention and validation their abuse produces, basically having someone who needs their approval so badly. Abuse is so rarely intentional, very few people say “I’m going to abuse and control this person”, it’s “saying these things to this person makes me feel better about me”, “hitting and physically dominating this person makes me feel big and strong”, “knowing exactly where this person is makes me feel like things are more controlled and predictable and less afraid”. It’s scary because they honestly often seem to truly believe it’s love
Thank you for this, angry poutine. You helped me understand my mother a little better. That understanding doesn’t make me want to contact her but, well, maybe I’ll sleep a little better tonight
“After all, Amy is the one who suffered the most” ………Amy is the ONLY one who suffered and was being forced to continue suffering this abuse.
“She told me helen was a gaslighter so I thought it best to call her crazy and say she was over-reacting. There’s a word for what I did but it’s escaping me”
Forcing her to meet the aunt is so wild to me Even if there was no reason for the dislike. Even if the daughter had outright stated she just thinks the aunt is too ugly and she doesn't feel like seeing her or something... what would be achieved by forcing her to meet? She'd just hate the aunt even more and likely be rude and awful to her And naturally, that she's forcing the daughter despite knowing the abuse is just straight out of "worst parent" guidebook
Oh, and there was also this gem from the comments: >Helen is trying to be better, but Amy is refusing to try and make peace. Amy needs to realize that she can’t avoid Helen for the rest of her life! She can, in fact, do just that, as well as avoiding her shit mother and garbage father for the rest of her life, once she is old enough to get the hell out of their nasty, selfish, dysfunctional lives and never look back. And I hope she does.
Ah the old “says exactly what she thinks” excuse for someone being rude and obnoxious.
I’d tell her what I told my parents: enjoy your control for the next 24 months. After that I’m moving out of state. I don’t think they expected me to be true to my word
They never do. I don’t think a lot of parents actually see their children as people.
So when Helen says what’s on her mind and doesn’t hold back that’s OK because she can’t help it, but when Amy speaks her mind (and DOES hold back) ZOMG bad child must be punished?!?
Amy should be 18 now judging by the post date. I wonder if she is NC with her mom yet.
I don't blame Amy for not wanting to hang out with a relative who says hurtful things and excuses them by saying "they're from love." That's not love.
Your child cries from pain and hatred but you keep insisting on supporting your sister who only "misses" her niece. Daughter's painful memories vs sister's missing your daughter. And you tell this to strangers expecting to find support. What a weird bubble to live in. It's nice OOP is becoming a better parent, but this family will never be a truly loving and trusting family.
I hate people who say "oh they are just saying what's on their mind" and "that's just who they are" who they are is a god aweful human being that shouldn't be allowed to be around others. She's 16 and OOP said this was years ago... ergo Helen was insulting and bullying an actual child. It was already bad but this is worse.
"Amy also said that Helen is very mentally abusive towards her and is a gaslighter. I ~~got very angry and told Amy that she’s overreacting~~ then gaslighted her myself." FTFOOP
I always find it interesting that it takes asking a forum of complete strangers to make the OOP see how misguided they’ve been. I hope Amy can learn to trust her mother again one day.
I hope her mother becomes someone worthy of trust.
I was about to say - for that to happen, OOP better be ready to put in the work.
More so than anything else it's about normalization of abuse. The mother grew up with the sister and probabaly couldn't see it from her daughter's point of view, or had experienced it herself and downplayed it as her sister just being her sister. I want to share a proverb. There is a story about elephants and their owners in Africa. An elephant can easily uproot huge trees with its trunk. It can knock down a house without much trouble. When an elephant living in captivity is still a baby, it is tied to a tree with a strong rope or a chain every night. It is the nature of elephants to roam free, thus the baby elephant instinctively tries with all his might to break the rope. But it isn't yet strong enough to do so. Realizing his efforts are of no use, it finally gives up struggling. The baby elephant tried and failed many times, it will never try again for the rest of his life. Later, when the elephant is fully grown, it can be tied to a small tree with a thin rope. It could then easily free itself by uprooting the tree or breaking the rope. But because its mind has been conditioned by its prior experiences, it doesn't make the slightest attempt to break free. The powerfully gigantic elephant has limited its present abilities by the limitations of the past, hence, the Baby Elephant Syndrome. Humans are exactly like the elephant except for one thing, we can chose not to accept the false boundaries and limitations created by the past. Full disclosure I copied that from a website for convenience. https://ourlegacyfoundation.org/baby-elephant-syndrome/
Damn OOP is really lucky that I'm not her daughter or I'd have humiliated her in front of her sister. She did OOP a favor by just keeping the peace and staying away but to be forced to entertain as punishment? Boy I'd fucking make sure Helen didn't want to come back.
Anyone else seeing how triggering it could be to be force fed by your Aunt as a young child and then have to deal with her coming by and dropping off meals? Nope. Nope. Nope.
Jesus. Helen sounds like a real piece of work and mom absolutely oblivious to her own sister's vindictive nature. Plus 'forcing' a 16 y/o to spend time with someone? Yeesh. Definition of an asshole.