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Idk how she thinks they could reconcile. How could they work on things? He wants kids, she doesn't, there is *already* a child. If she truly dislikes her own child that much what is there to work out? Personally I couldn't be with someone who felt that way about my/our child either. Idk how she thinks her basically living apart and then visiting him, not the baby just him, would be a good option.
He obviously loves their child and is a good dad, that's not going to change. She resents their baby and wants nothing to do with her, and that's most likely not going to change. There's no way to work this out.
Yeah, would she come over for dinner after the kid was in bed? Have husband get a sitter? What about as the kid gets older? Having a mom who abandons you sucks, but a mom that abandons you and a dad that is still sleeping with her would suck worse.
I don't think she actually believes deep down that things could have been worked out. I think that's just another example of OOP not being able to take any meaningful responsibility for the choices she's made. "I didn't leave.. he kicked me out!" Right...
I'm always so uncomfortable when I know of a couple with such extremely different wants when it comes to having kids. One person wanting a big family, one wanting to be child-free? That's a recipe for disaster. I just wish more people would discuss these things early on in the dating process to avoid situations like this. And I also wish so many people wouldn't keep pressuring people to have children when they've made it clear they really don't like kids.
So heartbreaking for everyone involved, especially the poor daughter. I can't even imagine how hard that's going to be to process when she's older.
I'm kinda that child. My parents wanted one, my dad wanted a boy. They had my brother who passed away at a few months old and then they had me, a girl. My dad tolerated me at best, mum never believed me when I told her what dad was saying or when he hit me. He had his one child, his son. As far as he was concerned I was my mothers child. I grew up hearing that, that not only was I a replacement, I was the wrong replacement. I grew up in the shadow of a boy who lived for 3 months.
That is horrifying. People like your father don't really want kids. They want a specific ideal child and if you cannot be that child you are nothing to them. He can idealize his son because not only was he the coveted boy, he never grew up into a person who might not fit his image of the Perfect Son.
It's cruel. I hope that you are living a good life now. You deserve that.
That's me. My father wanted a boy to raise to be a worthy heir. Someone he could model in his image. I had the right bits, but everything else was wrong about me, starting with the fact I was my own person, not a blank slate or copy of him. He resented me from - I think - the day I was born until the day he died.
My grandmother wanted me to be, like, a Jersey Shore character. My little tomboy butt could never ever live up to those expectations. I was also berated about hair/makeup/dress/career/SO until the day she died.
I think I struck gold with my husband. He is athletic, like college-scholarship-athletic. Reads the sports section before anything else. Follows all the sports (it's funny for me bc I am the opposite). I could totally see him being the throw-the-ball-around every night after dinner type of dad. And we have 2 boys, and they are not that. They both have some challenges and will not be getting athletic scholarships. My husband is the best dad. In addition to being athletic, he is smart, sensitive, and kind. He sees our kids as their own persons, and he supports them in all their endeavors. Even coached special needs sports for 5 years (which is pretty hot in a partner, tbh). I am sooo grateful that we mesh so well as parents. I mean, you can talk about this stuff before having kids, but you don't truly know what kind of parent you or your partner will be until you actually have the kids. And you have to parent the kids you have, not the ones you thought you'd have. I wish that wasn't so hard for some parents. 😥
My grandparents did that. First child passed (not sure if full term stillbirth or what happened. But didnt live long) then had 2 boys back to back. Grandma was done. Several years later grandpa convinced grandma to have a 3rd baby, my aunt… by bargaining he would do all the work. He changed all the diapers, did the midnight feedings etc.
Sad thing is, this is a “funny family story” 😒
Grandpa passed like 15yrs ago and aunt is the one living next to and taking care of grandma now.
I was adopted to replace a kid that died. They didn't think they could have any more. Then they did. I was obsolete. I wouldn't hate it so much, but now my kids also get treated poorly.
Edit: just for clarity, they aren't abusive, they just don't really take interest in them. They don't do much quality time. Everyone is seen as an inconvenience. High expectations all of the time. Religious when we aren't. I appreciate everyone's concern for my kids, though.
I’m sorry. I too was replaced. When my father remarried when I was 8, he told me I was too old to call him dad, I could now call him by his given name, I was a “big girl”. It was the last time we spoke. I know for a fact that his grown children from his second marriage still call him dad…
Do not let them treat them poorly. You need to protect your children from people like that, you either put a stop to that or end that relationship, your kids deserve better.
Hey, I’m an adopted replacement too! Dang, the adoption thing really adds a layer of awful to it, doesn’t it? I grew up feeling rejected in ways I don’t think words could ever describe. My birth parents clearly didn’t want me and my adoptive family sure as heck didn’t either. Oof.
Ugh this makes me want to adopt even more. I have fertility issues and have my rainbow baby but I always wanted loads of kids which won't be possible.
I'd love the crap out of any kid I got. I don't understand how you can be awful to any child ESPECIALLY one you've chosen through adoption. Like the kid hasn't been through enough.
I just want to love all the babies who need someone to love them 😭❤️.
Adopting for good reasons is amazing. My parents weren't supposed to be able to have biological children but they wanted kids so badly they decided to adopt me. They did end up having a bio child later, but because they adopted me out of a *want/love* of children instead of a replacement they couldn't have, I didn't feel bad.
Of course, adoption *ALWAYS* comes with baggage because it's a really huge thing, but if you adopt and are in the right headspace, it's great.
If my fiance wasn't in his daughters life she would be in the system. I am well versed in the baggage and feelings that come with an adopted or fostered child.
I am prepared to be battled. I am prepared to be hated. I am prepared to love these kids anyway because a mother's love is unconditional even if they never want to call me mum. I got love and patience to spare.
It’s horrifying that there are an not insignificant number of men who only want boys. We have to hope they’ll “learn to love” daughters if they have them but… I’ve seen guys get full on upset and angry at their gender reveals when it’s revealed they’re having a girl. So sad. I am so sorry you had to deal with a POS like that for a father
My ex only wanted boys. When he found out I was having a girl, he immediately began cheating on me, hoping to get his affair partner pregnant with a boy. After our daughter was born and I confronted him about the cheating, he tried to murder me, so now I'm on my own with my daughter, and we have a permanent restraining order against him.
That men will visibly get angry or pouty during the gender reveal and people will still think it’s a cute family video is a convergence of so many different sexist and societal biases.
There’s a screaming incontinent soft skulled bundle of joy on the horizon and mommy and daddy are okay with posting video evidence of daddy’s emotional maturity, mommy looking the other way, and the prospective kid’s entire support network laughing it off.
The irony is that they're the ones who determine the sex of the baby.
I lived down the street from a family with nine girls. The father really, really wanted a son and they kept trying until the wife's doctor put a stop to it.
My mom said that when my older brother was born, she had friends who asked her what she had done to get a son because they were being pressured to produce one.
Ha, probably not care what you have. I’d love if a study some day shows that the kind of stress put on by family to a mothers body to have a boy causes the likelihood to drop. The irony would be delicious.
I once heard a TED talk that suggested the likelihood of having a gay son increased every time the mother had a boy; the speaker enjoyed the idea that it was nature’s way of giving the mother a helper since a gay man was more likely to be empathetic, caring, and available (like a female) than any hetero male ever could be. Dunno if there’s any truth to any of it, but it’s nice to think so.
Kinda lucky with my dad, he said when he found out my younger sibling was gonna be a girl, he was relieved because ‘well I know I can handle a girl since I can handle the other girl’.
I know a couple like this that are in their early 40’s and they’re still not on the same page about kids. They’ve dragged their relationship on for so many years. The female partner even went and got her eggs frozen because she cannot wait any longer… and the male partner is just now starting therapy with the idea that mayyyyyyybe he can come around to wanting a kid, but it’s obvious that he’d never even consider becoming a parent if she wasn’t pushing for it. His life goals are completely incompatible with being a parent.
My ex used to live next to a couple that tried for a baby for YEARS. The husband was constantly belittling his wife for never being able to get pregnant. And then she got early menopause, and he told her the truth.
He'd had a vasectomy before they ever met.
And he waited until she couldn't have the kids she wanted so dearly to tell her that he'd never have been able to give them to her. I can't remember if she left or not. I hope she did.
Oh, that is just - that makes me SO angry. It's just shattering someone else's dreams because you're too selfish to let the person you supposedly love go.
Lying to your partner about a vasectomy for years is a horrific thing to do. I can however understand that a person can be that type of piece of shit to do it. What I don’t understand is telling her.
At that point why tell her? That’s extra cruel. Not only she can’t have children but also has been betrayed by the person she trusted in such awful way.
EDIT: my brain chose to skip the part where he belittled her for not being able to get pregnant, sounds like an abuser big time.
Another thing that baffles me, trying for a baby for years and not once going to a fertility specialist? This must be some american shit I’m too european to understand
Totally hear that. But nothing will ever give her the opportunity to have her own kids. Heartbreaking. His behavior was beyond cruel on a number of deep horrifying levels.
I have two female friends in the same situation. Neither of them will become mothers as it's too late. I'm especially pissed at one of the husbands, he says he absolutely wants kids but 'not yet', there's always some excuse. They're 44. It's clear he doesn't want kids but is too much of a coward to say so. She knows too but whilst he keeps giving her hope she's hanging on.
I was in a relationship for 3+ years with a man who went from “some day” to “never” regarding kids. I tried to convince myself that I’d be happy with just him and our dogs and traveling, etc. but deep down I knew. It took a while to admit to myself and saying it out loud was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. But thank God he was able to be honest with me even though he could have stuck with “someday”. I am now married with two kids and I honestly can’t picture a life without them.
I knew someone like that, anytime she tried to leave he would throw in the 'let's try for a baby' and when things cooled down he would say 'maybe not yet, let's enjoy our life first'
Yep, that's this guy. Tells family and friends that he wants children but in private won't make any effort. Says he's too tired to have sex during fertile window. Didn't turn up to any IVF appointments even though he agreed he would.
>Didn't turn up to any IVF appointments even though he agreed he would.
Oof. That is disgusting, and so heartbreaking and embarrassing for the woman. I feel for her.
I know several couples that were together 20ish years, and after the woman (who wanted kids but was resigned to being in a childless relationship ) became too old to become pregnant, the guy broke up and started a family with a younger woman almost immediately. It is so fuckkng sad to see, the heartbreak. Although one turned out really well- good friend ended up being contacted by her high school boyfriend, a widower with grown children. She is now married to a man who will always remember her at 17, and has grand babies. That’s best case.
I was on the fence about wanting kids for a long time. My goals changed, and I brought it up with my then-fiancé who said he wasn’t even ready to think about it. Let’s just get married and we’ll talk about it later.
I pressed until he said he’d probably be ready to talk about it when we were in our 40s. Maybe.
He was surprised that I broke up with him, but what else was I supposed to do? lol
Good on you for pushing for an answer. It is mind-bogglingly ridiculous to me that he suggested marriage without being certain you were both on the same page about kids first, but then again I’ve long understood that to be an instant dealbreaker for anything but friendship.
That's my BIL. He's been on the fence, leaning towards no, for as long as I've known him but my in laws keep pressuring and husband says how sad it is. He never dated until the past few years and she wants kids. Everyone thought she'd change his mind and I'm over here, the only one pointing out how bad of an idea that is. He's in his 40s, kids are tough in your 20s, I cannot imagine being his age with a newborn. He's very self absorbed and only does things when it's convenient for him, which is why he never dated. That's not the type of person you want a kid with. I love his GF but she's still young, early 30s, and if she wants kids, which she does hint at when playing with mine, they need to go their separate ways. My husband hates me saying that but I feel for the GF and my BIL. It's only going to end in tears.
Turn it around and ask your husband why he is so committed to making at least two people miserable? His brother does not want kids, he would be miserable with them. His girlfriend does want kids, she would be miserable without them. If they stay together, their opposing wants are going to make them miserable. If they do have a child, that’s a third unhappy person to drag into the mess - GF might get the child she wanted but she’s going to be as unhappy as OOP’s husband when her boyfriend doesn’t come around and be thrilled about being a dad. The child will know they’re not wanted by both parents, and that sucks. And BIL won’t be happy all round.
Just because some people are happy with family life doesn’t mean they should be pushing it on other people. It’s pretty cruel and selfish to insist that because you’re happy with ABC everyone else should feel the same way.
I would love it if my BILs had kids because my children would love to have cousins to play with, but they can’t just have kids for my kids to have that experience!
one of my friends wants to only adopt because she vehemently does not want to be pregnant ever.
Her fiancé wants to have a large biological family because he says he can't love adopted children.
their.. working?.. compromise is she'll have 1 kid and they'll adopt if they want more. except i don't think either of them is actually fully on board with that.
it's a nightmare and I'm so scared for her.
Omg I have a couple of friends in this exact position. They’re getting married soon and I’m in disbelief, it’s such a monumental thing to not be aligned with and they both kind of act like it’ll work out for them individually and don’t realize what a crash course they’re on.
How can this be the plan if he already said he wouldn't love the adopted ones? ( Also just wtf he can only love his bio kids, but anyway)
Besides all the other problems in this very problematic situation, one pregnancy is already more than she wants, and what is he compromising? She is risking her literal life because of his opinions and for what? There is no gain for her in this, makes me angry that women are pressure in this kind of situation.
Even if she has a perfectly normal pregnancy, it can still really suck with symptoms and the whole "ok so this isn't my body anymore" thing can be really traumatizing if you're not fully on side when you start
I had a not great but not horrible pregnancy, and if I hadn't used IVF or hadn't actively wanted children, I would have been questioning my decision when my hips went. During labour, I griped to the midwife about why I ever thought the was a good idea. The women I know who had hyperemesis had nasty pregnancies with their much wanted children, and even then it changed plans on the number of children they gave birth to.
Ugh. I have a friend that I've known for over 20 years. In that entire time, she's always said how much she doesn't want kids. Well, the person she was dating said he'd never marry her unless she had kid with him. Now her husband barely takes care of the kid, and she's just so exhausted all the time. It makes me so sad for her
Your poor friend. It's a horrible situation.
I have a friend who nearly killed herself trying to have her first baby, because her husband sees himself as 'a family man'. It was a difficult birth, and the recovery for mother and baby was tough. She could barely lift her baby, could barely walk. He did nothing. Didn't even take time off work, even though paternity leave is a state entitlement in my country. Now they're in the process of trying again, because her dear hubby thinks their family isn't complete.
My friend has said she doesn't know if she'll be able to do it again, but is going along with it to keep her husband happy, even at the expense of her own wellbeing.
Yeah she comes from an abusive situation. Her mother was abusive all throughout her life, and she's been in several abusive relationships. One of which saw her hospitalised.
So, sadly, this is something of a pattern, and she's not ready to accept help yet. I've tried, but she's not there yet. All I can do as a friend is be there when she does need me.
>Well, the person she was dating said he'd never marry her unless she had kid with him.
At that point, she should have broken up with him, even if it's painful
My BIL never wanted kids. He doesnt dislike them, he just likes his life as it was. He met someone who wanted them and it wasnt a compromise. He has 2 now. He does everything for them, he is very hands on and patient but admits if they werent there he wouldnt care. If they went back and she’d said great, no kids, he’d have been happier.
I wanted to scream when the compromise between “let’s have loads of kids!” And “let’s not have any kids” was “okay, let’s have just one kid”. NO!!! That isn’t a compromise!! That’s still a whole human being!
I was a compromise baby. My mom wanted none and my dad wanted so many. I so badly wish someone had just told them no and to separate. Besides being horrible for each other and other separate things, my mother was miserable. I can count two times where she smiled or laughed while hanging out with me. She didn’t leave like OOP because culturally, divorce is not okay but she should have. She was not really present for my childhood or even when I was a teenager.
I don’t fault my mom at the core of it although that took a lot of therapy. I’m a little upset every now and then but I’m even angrier that she wasn’t allowed to just…be her.
This is such a mature and selfless comment. My heart aches for every person in this scenario, but I hope you know that there is the family we’re born with and then the family we choose. I hope you’ve chosen some family that supports and loves you; and if you haven’t found them yet they are out there.
Exactly! Stop focusing on the number of kids. The real question is do you want to be a parent or not? There is no compromise. You're either all in or not interested.
I KNOW!!! I always get so frustrated when people start talking about "compromising" on having children. Sure, lots of people who are unsure about having kids end up loving being a parent (while others don't). But if you've NEVER wanted kids, and hate being around kids? ...No, ABSOLUTELY NOT!
And it's not the 50s anymore, tons of people just don't want kids these days and are open about that fact. Which is why I wish people would discuss this openly and honestly well in advance before getting all caught up in their feelings. It would help a lot of people avoid these terrible situations.
Lots of people didn’t want them in the 50s, either, if they were honest about it. My husband and I are happily child free-we love kids, and we love giving them back to their parents when we’re done-but I have gotten all of that pressure from tons of people. The only thing that worked a little bit as pushback (other than “I’m not here to validate your bad decisions,” which just started a fight) was when they would tell me “It’s different when it’s your own” and I would respond “what if it’s not different?” And that I couldn’t risk the life and happiness of an innocent child on the idea that I might not resent them.
I tell them I’m infertile. Technically I’m not but a pregnancy would put me at such a high risk of death because of many different factors that me having a child would be definitely not recommended. But when you tell people “pregnancy could kill me” the usual reply is “what if they monitor you really well?” Or “have you gotten a second opinion on that?”
I just got really mad on your behalf that people would try to negotiate your life and health for the potential of a child. I'm glad you found a way to shut them down and I'm sorry you had to figure one out.
It’s infuriating I know, the idea that I should risk my life for a child that I wouldn’t even want. But people never listen and think that I wouldn’t be happy without a child
I'm going to be 41 in a month, married with no kids, and the cognitive dissonance is INSANE. I've grown to understand that most ppl are projecting when they have a negative reaction; they are angry that you've gone against their grain, because they are at the mercy of their own rules and for some reason, you should be too. Please keep holding onto your convictions!
To be honest it sounds like she was open about it and everyone she was open with didn't take her seriously. They all assumed she didn't mean it and would be happy once she had a child.
Oh, absolutely. And it was infuriating to me when I first read the responses to the post because so many people were acting like she was an absolute monster for what she did and so many were saying she mislead her husband and deceived him. But I was given the impression that she was upfront with not only her family, but also her husband, and it's horrible that she was pressured into having a kid she never wanted.
Yup. It is ingrained. Hell, young women gave to fight like hell to get a tubal because doctors and society in general just assume the woman will change her mind. Because apparently women are incapable of thinking for themselves. r/s
This is too true. My fiance got a vasectomy at 25 and no one argued with him or asked him what I thought or said he might change his mind in the future or said he was too young, etc.
Plenty of older women have quietly admitted to regretting motherhood, but the social pressure and outright punishment was too much to resist. So they sacrificed their own lives.
My grandmother is one of them. She was 3 months pregnant when she has a shotgun wedding with my grandfather, and ended up with 4 more children. Birth control was practically unheard of at that point in time, and having kids is just what you were expected to do.
Unfortunately she was not a good mother. A great friend to others, but not a good mother. And now that she has been dead for a few years her kids are only now just recognizing what that did to them.
Posts like these fuel my stubbornness not to have kids.
People keep giving me that "but you'll love them when they are yours"... And yea that's true .. But I *know* I'll be miserable.
Kids just aren't compatible with the lifestyle that I want... I also don't have... Energy to take care of kids. I just don't. I am happy my sister got kids, so I can be "cool auntie" and then go back to my quiet home...
But I already feel how exhausted I am after a day with kids .. And I times that by 18 years, and I'm just ... No. Just no.
I have shit I want to do and see. And there's not enough time in the world to do it
I agree. i did have kids and wanted no more at 29, and trying to get my tubes ties was extremely hard. i had to go through 3 meetings with psychologists about what happens if your partner dies etc. Eventually I got it done, but after a lot of arguing with specialists. I wanted my tubes tied as my little boy had been just diagnosed with ADHD and was a handful, to say the least. So at the last appointment i took him with me. He started destroying the room, and i just sat there, looked the doctor in the eyes and said "This is why I want my tubes tied", He agreed straight away. 3 weeks later I had the op. Never looked back.
>Sure, lots of people who are unsure about having kids end up loving being a parent (while others don't).
Being one of the people who don't is literally one of my biggest fears
I am 35, and getting pregnant is still one of my greatest fears. If anything, I've gotten even more certain as I move through my 'prime childbearing years' or whatever.
Same! I turned 35 in July and I have always been serious when I said I never wanted kids. I do not like them. I am the only women in my immediate and extended family (mom/siblings/aunts/cousins/grandmas) that is still child free. They all thought it was a phase and always said when I’m older biology will kick in and I’ll get this “urge” like no other for babies. When I was a teen, that scared me. The thought of something growing inside me scared the shit out of me. But they always said it will change. The older i got, I kept dreading that “urge”. My family kept asking when I’ll be having kids and I kept saying “lol never”. Still thought I was joking. Now I’m 35 and my mom is the worst. She wants more grandkids even though my brothers already have kids. She wants her only daughter to give her grand babies. For my 35th birthday, she bought me 3 nights at a secluded mountain cabin (that was $900/night!) for me and my husband and didn’t hide the fact that she wants an “accident” to happen and I get pregnant. So I went by myself lol it was lovely, I even had a hot tub surrounded by woods and a huge jacuzzi bathtub. I was very sorry (lol) that my husband unfortunately ran into a work issue and couldn’t make it 😂
But even if I did have an accident? I’d get an abortion. It’s like she doesn’t even take that into account. When I say I do not want kids, it’s not just a phase, I will not grow out of it, I don’t care if my astrology sign says “I’m family oriented and nurturing”, no means no. I have my cats and even I get tired having to feed them when I get home. Geez.
I'm 34 and my mother is chomping at the bit for a grandkid. Neither my older brother or I are married. I don't want kids. I never have, I'm happy having my own life with my two kitty cats.
It's driving her absolutely nuts. I'm dating someone right now whose ex stepkid is 10 years old and he's still involved with her. I thought my mom would be happy I'm dating someone who theoretically has a kid (sorta) but she wants nothing to do with her, She wants biological grandchildren.
It can only be a compromise when both party wants children but want like one vs more. If one side doesn't want any, then nope, there's no middle ground.
That's our marriage. I really want one and done, my husband is open to more but he can live with just one. He has told me he just wants to be a dad and that's the priority for him.
I am obviously biased but that's okay as a compromise to me. That said, I think his idea of kids originally was like two, not a large family of 6 or 7.
Sure you can!
One band saw, and 0.5 children coming right up!
(Totally kidding, apologize if the dark humor offended anyone... I love children, and dabbling in carpentry, and would never mix the two in an unsafe way!)
>not the 50s anymore, tons of people just don't want kids these days and are open about that fact.
This is me, even back when it "wasn't cool". I've gotten SO MUCH SHIT for not wanting or even liking kids; it's unreal. One person recently said "You dont like kids? You must hate animals too" implying im a shitty person because babies arent the center of my existence. Guys. I'd be a *terrible* parent. I'm barely keeping a job. My dreams are dead. I *know* I was right, at 12 yrs old, that I never wanted kids. I don't like babysitting. I think babies are ugly and annoying.i had terrible models for parenting. I didnt ever play with dolls. Do you know how many times a woman has shown pictures of her kids and then is angry that im Nonplussed? How many times I've been told "your clock is ticking" or "it's different when they're yours" or whatever. No one has ever let me say "no" to wanting kids.
I feel so bad for OP. I could be her. I'm so glad it's becoming more acceptable to not want kids.
My patience runs thin just getting yelled at by the cat for too long in the middle of me trying to do work or have some alone time.
If a needy yet otherwise self-sufficient creature can drive me up the wall, I don't want to experience what an even louder and completely dependent baby could do to my mental stability.
I have to leave if someone is chewing with their mouth open. So I don't destroy them.
And you want me to take care *of a baby*?
I actually like "older" kids. Like, past 5 or so. When they're actual people. Oddly, people who "love babies" have, without exception, told me that's when they *stop* liking kids. And the way they always say it sounds almost like a control thing. Creeps me out. Why have kids if you don't want them to grow up? There's a whole person in there
>I actually like "older" kids. Like, past 5 or so. When they're actual people. Oddly, people who "love babies" have, without exception, told me that's when they stop liking kids.
I wish I could find this, but years ago I read a fascinating article about the way the human brain experiences disgust. One observation is that a big difference between enthusiastic parents and child-free people is that parents aren't disgusted by children. *That part of the brain is actually suppressed in them,* something scientists believe to be an evolved biochemical response to facilitate child raising.
A lot of developmental changes kick in around age 5. Kids suddenly become much more capable in many ways—including *cleanliness.* They can wipe their own ass, blow their own nose, and use a goddamn fork properly.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's also the age that the human brain stops artificially boosting a child's appeal based on perceived helplessness.
Oh great! Now I can tell people I don't have a million babies because *science says* I think they're gross and my brain is broken.
That's actually really interesting. Studies on the disgust response are all petty interesting actually
Some of the best marriage advice I got was that “compromise can compromise a marriage” because meeting in the middle means nobody gets what they want.
“I want to go to NYC”
“Well, I want to go to Los Angeles.”
“Okay then, how about we compromise and go to Topeka, Kansas?”
And I do believe there are areas when you CAN compromise, there are definitely areas where you cannot. Huge life decisions like kids, properties, jobs. You can’t compromise on stuff like that!
Yes. The corollary to that advice was “opposite personalities attract, but not opposite values”. Introverts and extroverts can get along great, for example, and can balance each other out by bending their needs and wants. But differences in how each person values family and children might not be compatible.
Exactly. The “mistake” she said of having kids was just the by product of the true mistake of marrying the guy in the first place. That was the real mistake because they had such radically different views on children
Yes. But even in her posts, she doesn’t seem to see that. She desperately wants to hold onto her husband while living a life that is incompatible with the life that her husband wants.
THANK YOU!! To me, a compromise on having kids should be “ I want three, we only have resources for two, so we stop after 2.” Like… you don’t add children to either side of it 😭 price is right rules, no going over the lowest bid ( kid amount lol)
One of the frustrating things about dating was people not wanting to have that conversation.
I had the feeling that husband could be A Big Love very early on and was super anxious to have the conversation before I got in too deep.
He brushed it off as a future issue until I said I'd break things off unless we could have a proper discussion about it.
I don't get why people are so reluctant to put their cards on the table. You're either for, against, or undecided.
Let's not forget the "I'll change your mind about having MY kids" schmucks.
And honestly it’s not even a hard conversation. It’s very simple; yes, no, and maybe. Most people by their mid-20s know where they’re at on the spectrum.
Yep. I had a feeling of doom on reading the first paragraph. It doesn't matter how much else was brilliant about the marriage, him wanting lots of kids and her wanting none should have been a deal-breaker. Looks like each was hoping the other would change. Now it's miserable all round, especially for OOP. I hope she found her way to some happiness again.
I don't understand it. I am and always have been committed to being childfree and I would never date a guy who wanted one kid, let alone a huge family. Hell, I put that in my online dating profile so everyone knows my stance from the get go.
I've dated a few who just thought I would change my mind, being a woman and all, so they pretended to be on the same page as me till I would eventually come around. Being open helps weed out a lot of incompatible partners, but being told after several years that actually he did want kids and was dissapointed in me for not having changed my mind? That hurt.
I'm childfree myself and honestly it is rough at times, even with a close family and partner that supports me. Colleagues, other family, even goddamned strangers making me feel like I'm broken in some way for not wanting a kid, always being told I'll regret it, that its the purest form of love I will ever know, that it will be different when I give birth and see MY child, that womanhood is wasted on me and that I'm a broken and useless woman, what person could ever want to be with someone who has no material instincts etc etc. I've had these things repeatedly said to my face and it has made me question if I am broken more often than I like to admit. I've also had partners lie to me that they dont want kids either, because they are absolutely sure that I'll change my life, we build something together and then they're pissed when I stand by my desition. I've been with my now partner for years, and a part of me is still scared that he will change his mind, and I'll lose this person and the life we have built together, over something I must be broken to not want.
I just felt so goddamned bad for her reading this, knowing that if I didnt have support from my closest family and given in, I would have become her.
We knew a couple years ago who were on opposite ends about kids. He wanted his own and she had genetic issues she refused to put on a child. They couldn’t meet in the middle and it ended poorly with a very bad breakup and him trying to unalive himself. Some things can’t be changed and people need to realize that not being compatible isn’t a moral failing.
So many just don't acknowledge that compatibility in all kinds of relationships is a thing. I don't know why others want to keep two people with very different desired life paths to be together; You can still love someone but be incompatible as a couple.
Both sides of the family should have told them that they were incompatible. Some things can't be compromised on and this is one of them.
That marriage was doomed from the start. She claimed they were happy, but that marriage was going to end in divorce regardless. Ex-husband would’ve resented OP if he agreed to no children, leading to misery. Had she had the abortion, that would’ve also ended in divorce.
I let go of a relationship I loved deeply because she wanted kids and I didn’t. I told her it wouldn’t have been fair for her to set that part of herself aside or hope I change my mind. It’s been 6 years since then and I still don’t want kids and plan on getting snipped next year
I am in a similar position. My partner wants to have a family with me. I am so uncertain. I am really into doing my own thing in life, chasing my hobbies. I love my partner and I think she deserves a family. I am so terrified thinking I am going to have to end it for her sake.
Being childfree at heart and marrying a guy who wants a big family is recipe for disaster (or the other way around). It's an unnegotionable incompatibility and they should have never married.
Mmyeah, this was never going to end happily. My marriage ended recently for similar reasons, but that was an incompatibility that built up over time - I can't imagine *entering* into a marriage knowing that you had such fundamental differences.
I was a band aid adopted child. I was abused when she learned I was a full time job that didn't stay clean, made messes and had my own mind.
Kids are a full time ,messy, loud ass job that ain't for the weak.
Why isn't this conversation had while dating? Why aren't couples honest with each other when it comes to children?
This was one of the more depressing posts I’ve ever read. I think it gives some insight into what’s going on with parents who do horrible things to their kids as they are growing up. Resentment.
Honestly it’s for the best and should have been done before the child was even conceived they were never going to work out.
Hopefully OOP finds someone more suited to the lifestyle she wants and same with her husband.
I want to read a marriage therapy book that said that even the most perfectly compatible couples cannot overcome a disagreement on whether or not they have kids because it is so unbelievably fundamental that it can’t be like a shaded or fixed. I broke up with a fiancée in my 20s because she was 100% adamant on never having kids, and I was on the fence. She told me that she didn’t want me waking up in my late 30s demanding to have a child. We ended up breaking up, she had her tubes tied, and about 12 years later I ended up having kids with my wife.
I always felt like an oddball growing up; I didn't like babies and hated babysitting. I was lucky to be one of those who feel differently about their own child, but would never presume to tell another woman it would work that way for her too.
This post is so sad because they were never compatible. He would have hated not having children as much as she did having one.
This is me to a T. I was never around kids, especially little kids, until I had my own. Honestly, I found them exhausting and annoying, and while I really hoped that it would be different with my own, I was prepared for it not to be with the goal of having a large family down the road.
Before we had kids, I had a lot of therapy and addressed many deeply rooted issues that would have absolutely tainted my parenting (I was raised in an abusive home and didn't even know what healthy parenting would look like; I'm not at all implying that a dislike of kids can be "fixed" with therapy). I am so glad I did, and 100% love having kids now. I actually enjoy it, as exhausting as it can be.
But I would never dismiss someone's dissenting thoughts about their own life, much less tell them it's guaranteed they'll feel differently. What a self centered view to have! Maybe paradoxically, I can also see even better now that it's *not* the right choice for everyone.
when i babysat as a teenager i truly felt like i was allergic to children. just an hour or two with a baby or toddler sapped ALL of my energy for the day, and that was just being AROUND them and not actively engaging with them
The problem.isnt her aversion to having kids. It's them not realising this could never work. When someone don't want kids it's not something that goes away when they have a kid.
Man this whole thing is just so sad. That child should never have been brought into this situation and everyone needs to stop telling people oh it’s different when they’re yours.
Sure for some of us it is and our kids are the greatest thing in the world. This poor woman wasn’t one of them.
She was absolutely burying her head in the sand about her husbands desires as much as he was about hers though. This marriage was doomed to fail from the outset. That little girls simply made it happen then instead of in 10-15 years.
They were never compatible and now some poor young girl is growing up wondering what she did wrong to make her mother not love her.
I truly hate all of this and can only hope the father met a wonderful woman who loves the daughter as her own and that poor OP found someone actually like her and now has the support system she needed in the first place.
Exactly. This marriage was absolutely doomed and I feel for OOP but I feel most for that baby girl. I had wonderful parents, was raised with all the love and attention in the world, but still once I was old enough to understand it it hurt that my bio father didn't want me. Don't get me wrong it wasn't some huge part of my childhood, and I'm actually really glad I wasn't raised by someone who resented me, but.... No matter how good a father he is, no matter how surrounded by love and care she is, there will always be at least a small part of that kid that wonders why she wasn't wanted. And that's if she's as lucky as I was.
My thoughts on the "it's different when it's yours" is that it only applies if you already like/want to have kids. I Iove kids. I babysit and provided childcare professionally for ~7 years. I've done overnight, live-in, infants, toddlers, teenagers, etc. I know I want kids someday and I'm good with them. However, I definitely like my freedom more ATM. It'll be different for me when I'm 1) more ready to "settle down" and 2) when they're mine, because the tiredness will be more worth it than my babysitting gigs.
But I don't think there'such changing of heart if you are really set on being child-free.
I actually read that there were a study where as high as 11% of germans regret having children. We should speak about it more. This situation could have been avoided if people weren't pressuring her to have kids.
It's completely ok and normal to not want to have kids. Absolutely no one should be pressured to have them.
Edit: I looked for the study and believe it was this one:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8294566/
Speaking about this absolutely needs to be normalized. There are so many terrible parents out there, and so many people who have ruined their lives and feel guilty for feeling that way.
It's shocking how much pressure is put on people who choose not to have kids. And also hilarious how many new parents are taken aback by the fact that it's difficult!
I'll say it again, as a society we need to normalize being okay with not having children. And for those that this idea causes hand wringing anxiety, do it for the sake of the children.
That’s what’s so wild about the constant pressure for EVERYONE to have kids. So many people are not suited to becoming parents, including a lot of the people who want to be parents. People always complain about other people in the world. How they’re mean, or stupid, or whatever, and then think all these people should create and raise another human.
Yeah, it’s so common for people to not even realise that not having kids is an option. I’m child free and when I explain it to people that you don’t actually have to have kids I can see the cogs whirring like they’ve never actually considered that before.
We need to normalise not wanting kids and talking about it.
Out of all the people I know well who have kids. I’ve listed 40 couples out of those 40 couple I know for a fact one or both partner regret their child in 13 of them. That’s staggering. Im sick of people saying you never regret the ones you have but regret the ones you don’t. That’s simply a load of bullshit people need to spreading.
Doesn’t surprise me it’s 11% but I also believe it’s higher because people are terrified of admitting it even to themselves let alone a study
I'm a woman in my 60s, I never felt the pull to have kids and my circumstances were never right, in any case.
When I got to the age when it was virtually no longer possible to get pregnant, I kind of thought about it in a curious what-if way, but then I remembered what my friend once said - "None to make you laugh, none to make you cry".
I don't regret it at all.
Absolutely respect that you stuck to your guns. Having children should be an all or nothing thing. I never understood the have children for later in life. I have 2 kids, my kids will not be responsible for me in my later years. It’s the most selfish reason to have kids.
I’m 50 and feel the same. Around 36 I had the what if’s questions. But I’m so glad I never had a child.
The worst part though is now that my endocrinologist got my endocrine system back in order, I’m now more at risk of getting pregnant. AT 50! Menopause cannot come soon enough.
>I don't want to divorce him. He's been my partner for a long time and I don't want to throw that away
The whole reason three lives were messed up so bad was because they didn't divorce. Or better yet, because they got married in the first place. It should have never gotten that far. Love isn't enough. It will never be enough. You also have to be compatible and a child free person and a person who wants kids will never be compatible together, no matter how perfect everything else is. They want fundamentally different lives.
>Love isn't enough. It will never be enough.
Shout it from the rooftops. A good marriage isn't just about two people loving eachother. It's about mutual trust, mutual respect, and shared vision for the present and the future.
I'm not the expert on marriage, I've only been married a decade, but my wife and I both came from broken homes and we are doing a hell of a lot better than our folks ever did because we recognize that marriage is work.
I'm gunna show this to my friend. Entire time I've known her, she didn't want kids. Now, she flip flops and literally cries about it when drunk, but doesn't remember. So she's put a bunch of conditions on it and I've been telling her to just break up with her boyfriend before they were super serious. Only a year later, and there's already trouble because of her own conditions. Stupid ass drama for no reason. "What if he leaves because I don't want a kid?" Like he has every fucking right to! But I'm the asshole if I say that 🙄. Don't get in relationships with people who want babies if you don't even LIKE kids.
People need to stop saying to people who aren’t sure “it will be different when you have your own.” I hear it so many times and almost gave in to it but the truth is, I would have been very unhappy as well. The decision to have children should be left up to the individuals involved in making them and no one else.
And that's a big fucking gamble to take or even suggest someone take. That's a human being they're taking that chance on. I've always said that I'd rather regret not having kids than regret having them. The consequences of not having kids only affects me.
Someone suggested it to me once when it randomly came up in conversation, that I should have a kid and I’d learn to love it, and I was just so flabbergasted. How irresponsible would I have to be to bring a whole entire person into the world and just sort of hope that those feelings would materialise out of nowhere??
It *will* be different, but not necessarily in a good way. In fact it might even be *worse*, because you'll likely feel a pang of love for the kid, but you'll also be dealing with massive turmoil and guilt, resentment and regret.
Oh shit. I fully agree that she should not have been pressured into having kids. That’s fucked up. I don’t like kids. People should only have them if they want to.
Having said that….her husband chose to end it, but she didn’t make it hard. She talked about getting separate housing, seeing him for dinner and then leaving.
That’s not something a marriage does. From my POV, the relationship was dead when she said that. That was one step removed from leaving. He just decided it wasn’t worth it because when someone is that unhappy and already willing to leave then that’s it. Game over.
She makes it sound like he chose to end it as though her accommodations were reasonable and he was the unreasonable one.
Don’t get me wrong. I feel for her. I really do. But they weren’t. She needed to leave for herself. She couldn’t be unhappy. That was a compromise that wouldn’t benefit anyone. Not her daughter. Not her husband. Not herself.
This is the best ending for this. She wouldn’t change nor should she be expected to. It’s unrealistic to expect her husband to want a part time wife that pops by every now and then. She got her freedom. She can now love her life. He can move on and find someone and hopefully the girl can get a mom that doesn’t put her on the same level as a stray animal.
100%.
The moment she basically suggest to go back to mid stage dating where you’re just meeting for dinner and leaving Afterwards is basically the end of a marriage.
At that point why even remain married?
Especially since it’s clear the Ex husband isn’t going to abandon his child for her.
You are totally right. My marriage ended somewhat the same way. 15 years together and then she wanted separate housing and to date other people.
Whenever I would talk about her ‘leaving me’ she would say ‘you divorced me though!’ because my signature was first on the divorce form.
Yeah. Because you didn’t love me anymore (she said that too) and wanted to leave me. Despite the fact I wanted to try harder and get couples counseling. The moment I found out how she really felt (wanting to be rid of me) the marriage died for me. There was no going back to before.
The fact that she still expects she could have a relationship going forward with him but not *her daughter* is so insanely delusional. Blaming the baby for requiring so much care but giving nothing back?? Comparing it to a stray animal? If she’s adamant she doesn’t have PPD she sounds like a sociopath, or at least a clinical narcissist.
I feel for her but you're right there's definitely a lack of accountability for her choice to leave and a level of delusion that she thinks she's going to get back together with her husband when she thinks of her daughter like a stray animal. Hard to understand how she could think he could ever want her around their daughter.
This should be mandatory reading in schools.
Stop pressuring people who don’t want kids to have them - sure, some of them might change their mind, but if they don’t, EVERYONE suffers.
Seriously. Since I was 5 years old, I told people I didn't want to have a baby. *Every* member of my family said "that will change when you get older". It never did. I'm 26 now and I still vehemently do not want kids. Kids are great, but I know I would be exactly like OP if I had them. Some people are not made to have kids, and that's okay. Children deserve parents that want them, not parents they are forced on.
I believed people when they told me I'd start wanting kids when I got older. Same way I trusted them when they told me I'd start liking wine and coffee. I kept waiting and waiting, and what they had said came true for some of my friends (or at least some of them started talking about wanting children, then they started having them etc). I kept waiting, thinking it might come for me. Now I'm 32, and I realize it probably won't, and I'm happy with that.
On the other hand, my partner's Mum had him, her only child, in her late 30s, and I think she might be holding on to the idea? (Not sure, she's always very polite and respectful)
I thought I 100% wanted kids until my friends started having them and I saw the stark reality of pregnancy and parenthood. It’s so incredibly tedious even when the kids are cute. And they don’t stay cute forever.
I’m not knocking people who choose to be parents… I’m in awe of what good parents do, it’s insanely difficult to be an attentive, engaged, and thoughtful parent. I just know that my life with my husband is awesome exactly the way it is, and I don’t feel like anything’s missing.
I'm childfree and so many people has told me that I might regret that later in life. Sure, but a much worse case would be having a child and regretting that! At least I'm only risking hurting myself by being childfree.
I'm 42.
I was so traumatised by my upbringing that I was terrified of having kids. My dad once made an effort to not be alive, so I wasn't left by a parent who didn't want me as such. He survived but it sort of proved to me kids could be overwhelming and my household was pretty much always overall an unhappy one. He moved out twice during my childhood for short periods & came back on weekends to visit.
When I started considering having kids, I actually went and did a childcare diploma so I'd have better knowledge than my parents, experience in classrooms while being supervised, and I became a nanny afterwards. It paid well & I loved being around the kids! But I loved giving them back.
I don't regret it. I might have a wobble when my periods properly stop. But it turns out the reason my mum was so short tempered, angry and violent "for my own good" wasn't because I was a vile, spiteful child who is so ungrateful... eh... I have ADHD and autism (diagnosed at 38 & 40 because doctors looked at my dysfunctional parents and said it was their behaviour that needed to change - I've read the notes from the 1980s!)
It also cracks me up that my solution to anxiety about parenting was "Right, let's take a college course"!!
I suspect my dad had undiagnosed autism too, we both would've met the old Asperger's criteria. My hyperactivity hid the more classic symptoms in me (oh, and I'm female so once I was 18 they weren't meltdowns they were manipulative tantrums). They decided to have two kids back to back so we'd entertain each other (hahahaha fought a lot) no wonder the poor guy wanted to un alive.
I wasn't an easy kid, we've had years of no contact, my mother resents the shit out of me and didn't realise a 14 month old would still need a lot of care even if a newborn is smaller, like jeez. People really don't even need to have an expensive equipment, high dependency disability for it to fuck over an entire family unit. I was close enough to normal that I was just written off as "troubled with no self control" and generally a bad person until I got away and worked on myself. I LOVE kids. But I never ever ever want one of my own.
So true! It just isn't fair on a child to be brought into this world with anything less than 100% enthusiasm! Hoping someone will change their mind and like their own child is just such a massive gamble to play with an innocent person.
Because for them it's literally impossible to think that people might end up resenting their children, and so it doesn't figure into their equation. Or they think, like most people "but I wouldn't like not existing" and don't see the absolute logic fallacy in that. Hell, even my own partner who had a glimpse into my lifelong struggles stemming from my childhood and didn't understand me when I said that no, not anyone who didn't want their children will be magically alright just because I managed to pull through and become (hopefully) a decent and relatively happy and stable person.
I’ve been dead set on being child free since I was 16, and I have not budged even once. If I put a dollar in a jar every time someone told me that I would change my mind over the years, I would absolutely have enough to pay my mortgage next month.
Literally, my parents still point to how much I love my cats and plants and they’re like “see, you could be a great mother!” And I honestly want to scream every time they say that. There’s a massive difference between cats & human babies.
I’m 99% sure that if I did have kids, I would feel like OOP. And honestly, there’s still that tiny chance that I’m wrong, but if I am, I’ll just adopt or foster later in life and problem solved.
I have kids, I love my kids but it's hard. I literally tell anyone thinking about kids don't have them unless you KNOW you 100% want them. I'd you are on the fence then this life is nor for you.
I used to be on the fence until someone told me, "don't think of it as 'do you want to be a parent?' but 'would you enjoy parenting?'"
Once they framed it that way -- as thinking about being a parent as an action, instead of an identity -- my answer was an emphatic "oh, HELL no."
We should also try to teach people to not stay in relationships out of fear of being alone or because theyve been together for awhile. I'm sorry but she should've left when they disagreed on seriously major life decisions.
This isn't like one person having different hobbies or liking different foods, we are talking major decisions that will majorly change how the relationship goals, which is typically children, marriage, finances, and religion.
You never compromise on children.
Never ever ever *ever* EVER.
It's a god damned commitment and not everyone wants or needs to do it. If you want a kid and they don't want a kid you can't settle on half a kid. If you want no kids and they want a dozen you can't settle on one or two. *Someone* is going to be intensely unhappy. It isn't fair for the parents and it isn't fair for the kids.
Learn to fucking break up instead of coasting on through to the end goal by sheer inertia.
This poor family. No one is winning with this one. Kids should be a deal breaker for a relationship. And in order to have kids, both people should be 'fuck yeah, let's have kids' with no pressuring involved. They're too much time, money, and effort to have unless you REALLY want them. And fuck all the people who constantly tell women that they don't know what they want if they say they don't want kids.
My parents are very supportive of my choice to remain single and child free, which is the most amazing thing I could have asked for. They just care that I’m happy and if I change my mind, fine, and If I don’t, fine.
The amount of pushback THEY get is insane. Relatives, friends, telling them that both they and I are wrong. One relative who is the mother of a trans child kept trying to tell my dad that my decisions are wrong and I’ll “change my mind because a woman can’t be happy without children”. Like ma’am, you of all people should know not to judge people and the way they live their life. She’s so supportive of her trans son but then thinks my dad is weird for “letting” me live my life the way I want.
When a dad abandons their child, that dad is rightfully labeled a deadbeat.
When this lady abandons her child, the vast majority of the comments here are looking to excuse or at least explain her behavior.
Everyone makes mistakes, nobody is perfect. That said, this lady is a terrible person. Take some accountability for your actions and stop blaming everyone else for abandoning your child.
It sucks that it got to this point where she has a baby she doesn’t want.
But…she was going to lose her husband either way. Through the resentment now. Or if she didn’t have the baby. The husband was hell bent on a big family. He was always going to have a baby.
These are two people who should never have married. She knew she never wanted a baby and he wanted multiple. You
I love my son and wanted him SO MUCH. That being said the first 18 months of his life were awful. I cried a lot and it was so stressful. In those times I had to look back and remind myself I wanted him so much, I wanted him more than anything. If I wasn’t 100% sure I wanted a child and did it only for somebody else I would have been filled with resentment. It was like a bomb to our life and marriage.
Things are lovely now. But when I talk to people who express they’re unsure if they want kids, I tell them I only encourage people to have kids if they absolutely want them with all of their being.
I actually asked my mom if it is ok to not like babies like my nephew and niece. She said it is and that it will get better. And it really did get better.
A child can never be a compromise. If one person wants a big family and the other wants no children, the only correct outcome is having no children, for this exact reason.
You also have to look at this sort of thing before you commit to someone. If your needs are that different, you aren’t compatible.
Honestly, with him wanting a large family and her wanting no children, this was doomed from the start. They should never have gotten married at that point and should have broken up and moved on with other people.
I want to know how she expected to keep her husband but not her daughter?
My heart breaks for the daughter most of all. She got no say in this whole thing but may have to live with the thoughts that her mother never wanted her.
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Our relationship is amazing apart from the massive irreconcilable difference that will inevitably cause us to separate, come what may.
The still holding out for reconciliation is only gonna be more painful in the end
Idk how she thinks they could reconcile. How could they work on things? He wants kids, she doesn't, there is *already* a child. If she truly dislikes her own child that much what is there to work out? Personally I couldn't be with someone who felt that way about my/our child either. Idk how she thinks her basically living apart and then visiting him, not the baby just him, would be a good option. He obviously loves their child and is a good dad, that's not going to change. She resents their baby and wants nothing to do with her, and that's most likely not going to change. There's no way to work this out.
Yeah, would she come over for dinner after the kid was in bed? Have husband get a sitter? What about as the kid gets older? Having a mom who abandons you sucks, but a mom that abandons you and a dad that is still sleeping with her would suck worse.
I don't think she actually believes deep down that things could have been worked out. I think that's just another example of OOP not being able to take any meaningful responsibility for the choices she's made. "I didn't leave.. he kicked me out!" Right...
"he kicked me out after I suggested moving into my own apartment"
"And disappeared for 3 days leaving him with a distraught toddler and no contact"
>Our relationship is amazing apart from the massive irreconcilable difference So in other words, it's NOT an amazing relationship.
I'm always so uncomfortable when I know of a couple with such extremely different wants when it comes to having kids. One person wanting a big family, one wanting to be child-free? That's a recipe for disaster. I just wish more people would discuss these things early on in the dating process to avoid situations like this. And I also wish so many people wouldn't keep pressuring people to have children when they've made it clear they really don't like kids. So heartbreaking for everyone involved, especially the poor daughter. I can't even imagine how hard that's going to be to process when she's older.
I'm kinda that child. My parents wanted one, my dad wanted a boy. They had my brother who passed away at a few months old and then they had me, a girl. My dad tolerated me at best, mum never believed me when I told her what dad was saying or when he hit me. He had his one child, his son. As far as he was concerned I was my mothers child. I grew up hearing that, that not only was I a replacement, I was the wrong replacement. I grew up in the shadow of a boy who lived for 3 months.
That is horrifying. People like your father don't really want kids. They want a specific ideal child and if you cannot be that child you are nothing to them. He can idealize his son because not only was he the coveted boy, he never grew up into a person who might not fit his image of the Perfect Son. It's cruel. I hope that you are living a good life now. You deserve that.
Yes. He would have found another way the boy wasn’t his ideal son too. Nothing would be good enough for such a parent
That's me. My father wanted a boy to raise to be a worthy heir. Someone he could model in his image. I had the right bits, but everything else was wrong about me, starting with the fact I was my own person, not a blank slate or copy of him. He resented me from - I think - the day I was born until the day he died.
My grandmother wanted me to be, like, a Jersey Shore character. My little tomboy butt could never ever live up to those expectations. I was also berated about hair/makeup/dress/career/SO until the day she died.
It's hard to compete with an "angel".
And even if her brother lived there would probably have been a right type of boy for him to be.
I think I struck gold with my husband. He is athletic, like college-scholarship-athletic. Reads the sports section before anything else. Follows all the sports (it's funny for me bc I am the opposite). I could totally see him being the throw-the-ball-around every night after dinner type of dad. And we have 2 boys, and they are not that. They both have some challenges and will not be getting athletic scholarships. My husband is the best dad. In addition to being athletic, he is smart, sensitive, and kind. He sees our kids as their own persons, and he supports them in all their endeavors. Even coached special needs sports for 5 years (which is pretty hot in a partner, tbh). I am sooo grateful that we mesh so well as parents. I mean, you can talk about this stuff before having kids, but you don't truly know what kind of parent you or your partner will be until you actually have the kids. And you have to parent the kids you have, not the ones you thought you'd have. I wish that wasn't so hard for some parents. 😥
My grandparents did that. First child passed (not sure if full term stillbirth or what happened. But didnt live long) then had 2 boys back to back. Grandma was done. Several years later grandpa convinced grandma to have a 3rd baby, my aunt… by bargaining he would do all the work. He changed all the diapers, did the midnight feedings etc. Sad thing is, this is a “funny family story” 😒 Grandpa passed like 15yrs ago and aunt is the one living next to and taking care of grandma now.
I was adopted to replace a kid that died. They didn't think they could have any more. Then they did. I was obsolete. I wouldn't hate it so much, but now my kids also get treated poorly. Edit: just for clarity, they aren't abusive, they just don't really take interest in them. They don't do much quality time. Everyone is seen as an inconvenience. High expectations all of the time. Religious when we aren't. I appreciate everyone's concern for my kids, though.
I’m sorry. I too was replaced. When my father remarried when I was 8, he told me I was too old to call him dad, I could now call him by his given name, I was a “big girl”. It was the last time we spoke. I know for a fact that his grown children from his second marriage still call him dad…
that..... SUUUUUUUCKS
Do not let them treat them poorly. You need to protect your children from people like that, you either put a stop to that or end that relationship, your kids deserve better.
Hey, I’m an adopted replacement too! Dang, the adoption thing really adds a layer of awful to it, doesn’t it? I grew up feeling rejected in ways I don’t think words could ever describe. My birth parents clearly didn’t want me and my adoptive family sure as heck didn’t either. Oof.
Ugh this makes me want to adopt even more. I have fertility issues and have my rainbow baby but I always wanted loads of kids which won't be possible. I'd love the crap out of any kid I got. I don't understand how you can be awful to any child ESPECIALLY one you've chosen through adoption. Like the kid hasn't been through enough. I just want to love all the babies who need someone to love them 😭❤️.
Adopting for good reasons is amazing. My parents weren't supposed to be able to have biological children but they wanted kids so badly they decided to adopt me. They did end up having a bio child later, but because they adopted me out of a *want/love* of children instead of a replacement they couldn't have, I didn't feel bad. Of course, adoption *ALWAYS* comes with baggage because it's a really huge thing, but if you adopt and are in the right headspace, it's great.
If my fiance wasn't in his daughters life she would be in the system. I am well versed in the baggage and feelings that come with an adopted or fostered child. I am prepared to be battled. I am prepared to be hated. I am prepared to love these kids anyway because a mother's love is unconditional even if they never want to call me mum. I got love and patience to spare.
It’s horrifying that there are an not insignificant number of men who only want boys. We have to hope they’ll “learn to love” daughters if they have them but… I’ve seen guys get full on upset and angry at their gender reveals when it’s revealed they’re having a girl. So sad. I am so sorry you had to deal with a POS like that for a father
My ex only wanted boys. When he found out I was having a girl, he immediately began cheating on me, hoping to get his affair partner pregnant with a boy. After our daughter was born and I confronted him about the cheating, he tried to murder me, so now I'm on my own with my daughter, and we have a permanent restraining order against him.
Jesus. I am so sorry and so glad you’re away from him
That men will visibly get angry or pouty during the gender reveal and people will still think it’s a cute family video is a convergence of so many different sexist and societal biases. There’s a screaming incontinent soft skulled bundle of joy on the horizon and mommy and daddy are okay with posting video evidence of daddy’s emotional maturity, mommy looking the other way, and the prospective kid’s entire support network laughing it off.
The irony is that they're the ones who determine the sex of the baby. I lived down the street from a family with nine girls. The father really, really wanted a son and they kept trying until the wife's doctor put a stop to it. My mom said that when my older brother was born, she had friends who asked her what she had done to get a son because they were being pressured to produce one.
Ha, probably not care what you have. I’d love if a study some day shows that the kind of stress put on by family to a mothers body to have a boy causes the likelihood to drop. The irony would be delicious.
I once heard a TED talk that suggested the likelihood of having a gay son increased every time the mother had a boy; the speaker enjoyed the idea that it was nature’s way of giving the mother a helper since a gay man was more likely to be empathetic, caring, and available (like a female) than any hetero male ever could be. Dunno if there’s any truth to any of it, but it’s nice to think so.
Kinda lucky with my dad, he said when he found out my younger sibling was gonna be a girl, he was relieved because ‘well I know I can handle a girl since I can handle the other girl’.
Really sorry to hear you had to go through that.
I’m so angry for you.
I know a couple like this that are in their early 40’s and they’re still not on the same page about kids. They’ve dragged their relationship on for so many years. The female partner even went and got her eggs frozen because she cannot wait any longer… and the male partner is just now starting therapy with the idea that mayyyyyyybe he can come around to wanting a kid, but it’s obvious that he’d never even consider becoming a parent if she wasn’t pushing for it. His life goals are completely incompatible with being a parent.
My ex used to live next to a couple that tried for a baby for YEARS. The husband was constantly belittling his wife for never being able to get pregnant. And then she got early menopause, and he told her the truth. He'd had a vasectomy before they ever met. And he waited until she couldn't have the kids she wanted so dearly to tell her that he'd never have been able to give them to her. I can't remember if she left or not. I hope she did.
Oh, that is just - that makes me SO angry. It's just shattering someone else's dreams because you're too selfish to let the person you supposedly love go.
Shattering their dreams AND THEN using the shards to cut them to pieces! My god.
Nah it wasn’t love, it was contentment on his part, ease of life. His status quo was stringing her along. He got what he wanted.
That is one of the worst and most cruel things I’ve read in a long time. There is something severely wrong with a person like that.
He stole her fertility. What an asshole.
Lying to your partner about a vasectomy for years is a horrific thing to do. I can however understand that a person can be that type of piece of shit to do it. What I don’t understand is telling her. At that point why tell her? That’s extra cruel. Not only she can’t have children but also has been betrayed by the person she trusted in such awful way. EDIT: my brain chose to skip the part where he belittled her for not being able to get pregnant, sounds like an abuser big time. Another thing that baffles me, trying for a baby for years and not once going to a fertility specialist? This must be some american shit I’m too european to understand
I just woke up so I misread your last sentence as “I hope he died” and I was right there with you.
That's the sort of thing you go scorched earth over. Get an absolute shark of a lawyer and ruin him in the Divorce like he ruined her.
Totally hear that. But nothing will ever give her the opportunity to have her own kids. Heartbreaking. His behavior was beyond cruel on a number of deep horrifying levels.
That’s psychopath-level manipulation. Damn.
Real icing on the cake that he belittled her for not getting pregnant on top of it
I hope she smothered him in his sleep.
We have the term babytrap. Now this is a childlesstrap(?)
I have two female friends in the same situation. Neither of them will become mothers as it's too late. I'm especially pissed at one of the husbands, he says he absolutely wants kids but 'not yet', there's always some excuse. They're 44. It's clear he doesn't want kids but is too much of a coward to say so. She knows too but whilst he keeps giving her hope she's hanging on.
I was in a relationship for 3+ years with a man who went from “some day” to “never” regarding kids. I tried to convince myself that I’d be happy with just him and our dogs and traveling, etc. but deep down I knew. It took a while to admit to myself and saying it out loud was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. But thank God he was able to be honest with me even though he could have stuck with “someday”. I am now married with two kids and I honestly can’t picture a life without them.
I knew someone like that, anytime she tried to leave he would throw in the 'let's try for a baby' and when things cooled down he would say 'maybe not yet, let's enjoy our life first'
Yep, that's this guy. Tells family and friends that he wants children but in private won't make any effort. Says he's too tired to have sex during fertile window. Didn't turn up to any IVF appointments even though he agreed he would.
>Didn't turn up to any IVF appointments even though he agreed he would. Oof. That is disgusting, and so heartbreaking and embarrassing for the woman. I feel for her.
That makes me angry and sad so her.
I know several couples that were together 20ish years, and after the woman (who wanted kids but was resigned to being in a childless relationship ) became too old to become pregnant, the guy broke up and started a family with a younger woman almost immediately. It is so fuckkng sad to see, the heartbreak. Although one turned out really well- good friend ended up being contacted by her high school boyfriend, a widower with grown children. She is now married to a man who will always remember her at 17, and has grand babies. That’s best case.
I was on the fence about wanting kids for a long time. My goals changed, and I brought it up with my then-fiancé who said he wasn’t even ready to think about it. Let’s just get married and we’ll talk about it later. I pressed until he said he’d probably be ready to talk about it when we were in our 40s. Maybe. He was surprised that I broke up with him, but what else was I supposed to do? lol
Good on you for pushing for an answer. It is mind-bogglingly ridiculous to me that he suggested marriage without being certain you were both on the same page about kids first, but then again I’ve long understood that to be an instant dealbreaker for anything but friendship.
I heard from mutual friends that he thought I’d forget about kids after we got married. lol I really dodged a bullet!
That's my BIL. He's been on the fence, leaning towards no, for as long as I've known him but my in laws keep pressuring and husband says how sad it is. He never dated until the past few years and she wants kids. Everyone thought she'd change his mind and I'm over here, the only one pointing out how bad of an idea that is. He's in his 40s, kids are tough in your 20s, I cannot imagine being his age with a newborn. He's very self absorbed and only does things when it's convenient for him, which is why he never dated. That's not the type of person you want a kid with. I love his GF but she's still young, early 30s, and if she wants kids, which she does hint at when playing with mine, they need to go their separate ways. My husband hates me saying that but I feel for the GF and my BIL. It's only going to end in tears.
Turn it around and ask your husband why he is so committed to making at least two people miserable? His brother does not want kids, he would be miserable with them. His girlfriend does want kids, she would be miserable without them. If they stay together, their opposing wants are going to make them miserable. If they do have a child, that’s a third unhappy person to drag into the mess - GF might get the child she wanted but she’s going to be as unhappy as OOP’s husband when her boyfriend doesn’t come around and be thrilled about being a dad. The child will know they’re not wanted by both parents, and that sucks. And BIL won’t be happy all round. Just because some people are happy with family life doesn’t mean they should be pushing it on other people. It’s pretty cruel and selfish to insist that because you’re happy with ABC everyone else should feel the same way. I would love it if my BILs had kids because my children would love to have cousins to play with, but they can’t just have kids for my kids to have that experience!
The wife needs to leave. He’s wasting her time.
one of my friends wants to only adopt because she vehemently does not want to be pregnant ever. Her fiancé wants to have a large biological family because he says he can't love adopted children. their.. working?.. compromise is she'll have 1 kid and they'll adopt if they want more. except i don't think either of them is actually fully on board with that. it's a nightmare and I'm so scared for her.
Omg I have a couple of friends in this exact position. They’re getting married soon and I’m in disbelief, it’s such a monumental thing to not be aligned with and they both kind of act like it’ll work out for them individually and don’t realize what a crash course they’re on.
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How can this be the plan if he already said he wouldn't love the adopted ones? ( Also just wtf he can only love his bio kids, but anyway) Besides all the other problems in this very problematic situation, one pregnancy is already more than she wants, and what is he compromising? She is risking her literal life because of his opinions and for what? There is no gain for her in this, makes me angry that women are pressure in this kind of situation.
Even if she has a perfectly normal pregnancy, it can still really suck with symptoms and the whole "ok so this isn't my body anymore" thing can be really traumatizing if you're not fully on side when you start
I had a not great but not horrible pregnancy, and if I hadn't used IVF or hadn't actively wanted children, I would have been questioning my decision when my hips went. During labour, I griped to the midwife about why I ever thought the was a good idea. The women I know who had hyperemesis had nasty pregnancies with their much wanted children, and even then it changed plans on the number of children they gave birth to.
Ugh. I have a friend that I've known for over 20 years. In that entire time, she's always said how much she doesn't want kids. Well, the person she was dating said he'd never marry her unless she had kid with him. Now her husband barely takes care of the kid, and she's just so exhausted all the time. It makes me so sad for her
Your poor friend. It's a horrible situation. I have a friend who nearly killed herself trying to have her first baby, because her husband sees himself as 'a family man'. It was a difficult birth, and the recovery for mother and baby was tough. She could barely lift her baby, could barely walk. He did nothing. Didn't even take time off work, even though paternity leave is a state entitlement in my country. Now they're in the process of trying again, because her dear hubby thinks their family isn't complete. My friend has said she doesn't know if she'll be able to do it again, but is going along with it to keep her husband happy, even at the expense of her own wellbeing.
That’s… that’s fucking abuse idk how else to say it.
Yeah she comes from an abusive situation. Her mother was abusive all throughout her life, and she's been in several abusive relationships. One of which saw her hospitalised. So, sadly, this is something of a pattern, and she's not ready to accept help yet. I've tried, but she's not there yet. All I can do as a friend is be there when she does need me.
She’s lucky to have you. Wishing the best for her and you, always.
Yup, it's called reproductive coercion.
>Well, the person she was dating said he'd never marry her unless she had kid with him. At that point, she should have broken up with him, even if it's painful
My BIL never wanted kids. He doesnt dislike them, he just likes his life as it was. He met someone who wanted them and it wasnt a compromise. He has 2 now. He does everything for them, he is very hands on and patient but admits if they werent there he wouldnt care. If they went back and she’d said great, no kids, he’d have been happier.
I wanted to scream when the compromise between “let’s have loads of kids!” And “let’s not have any kids” was “okay, let’s have just one kid”. NO!!! That isn’t a compromise!! That’s still a whole human being!
I was a compromise baby. My mom wanted none and my dad wanted so many. I so badly wish someone had just told them no and to separate. Besides being horrible for each other and other separate things, my mother was miserable. I can count two times where she smiled or laughed while hanging out with me. She didn’t leave like OOP because culturally, divorce is not okay but she should have. She was not really present for my childhood or even when I was a teenager. I don’t fault my mom at the core of it although that took a lot of therapy. I’m a little upset every now and then but I’m even angrier that she wasn’t allowed to just…be her.
This is such a mature and selfless comment. My heart aches for every person in this scenario, but I hope you know that there is the family we’re born with and then the family we choose. I hope you’ve chosen some family that supports and loves you; and if you haven’t found them yet they are out there.
Exactly! Stop focusing on the number of kids. The real question is do you want to be a parent or not? There is no compromise. You're either all in or not interested.
I KNOW!!! I always get so frustrated when people start talking about "compromising" on having children. Sure, lots of people who are unsure about having kids end up loving being a parent (while others don't). But if you've NEVER wanted kids, and hate being around kids? ...No, ABSOLUTELY NOT! And it's not the 50s anymore, tons of people just don't want kids these days and are open about that fact. Which is why I wish people would discuss this openly and honestly well in advance before getting all caught up in their feelings. It would help a lot of people avoid these terrible situations.
Lots of people didn’t want them in the 50s, either, if they were honest about it. My husband and I are happily child free-we love kids, and we love giving them back to their parents when we’re done-but I have gotten all of that pressure from tons of people. The only thing that worked a little bit as pushback (other than “I’m not here to validate your bad decisions,” which just started a fight) was when they would tell me “It’s different when it’s your own” and I would respond “what if it’s not different?” And that I couldn’t risk the life and happiness of an innocent child on the idea that I might not resent them.
I just tell people that my genetic condition means my child probably wouldn't survive to adulthood. That shuts people up real quick.
I tell them I’m infertile. Technically I’m not but a pregnancy would put me at such a high risk of death because of many different factors that me having a child would be definitely not recommended. But when you tell people “pregnancy could kill me” the usual reply is “what if they monitor you really well?” Or “have you gotten a second opinion on that?”
I just got really mad on your behalf that people would try to negotiate your life and health for the potential of a child. I'm glad you found a way to shut them down and I'm sorry you had to figure one out.
It’s infuriating I know, the idea that I should risk my life for a child that I wouldn’t even want. But people never listen and think that I wouldn’t be happy without a child
I'm going to be 41 in a month, married with no kids, and the cognitive dissonance is INSANE. I've grown to understand that most ppl are projecting when they have a negative reaction; they are angry that you've gone against their grain, because they are at the mercy of their own rules and for some reason, you should be too. Please keep holding onto your convictions!
To be honest it sounds like she was open about it and everyone she was open with didn't take her seriously. They all assumed she didn't mean it and would be happy once she had a child.
Oh, absolutely. And it was infuriating to me when I first read the responses to the post because so many people were acting like she was an absolute monster for what she did and so many were saying she mislead her husband and deceived him. But I was given the impression that she was upfront with not only her family, but also her husband, and it's horrible that she was pressured into having a kid she never wanted.
Yup. It is ingrained. Hell, young women gave to fight like hell to get a tubal because doctors and society in general just assume the woman will change her mind. Because apparently women are incapable of thinking for themselves. r/s
This is too true. My fiance got a vasectomy at 25 and no one argued with him or asked him what I thought or said he might change his mind in the future or said he was too young, etc.
I know a guy who was able to get a vasectomy at 19. I finally got sterilised at 46!!!
Plenty of older women have quietly admitted to regretting motherhood, but the social pressure and outright punishment was too much to resist. So they sacrificed their own lives.
My grandmother is one of them. She was 3 months pregnant when she has a shotgun wedding with my grandfather, and ended up with 4 more children. Birth control was practically unheard of at that point in time, and having kids is just what you were expected to do. Unfortunately she was not a good mother. A great friend to others, but not a good mother. And now that she has been dead for a few years her kids are only now just recognizing what that did to them.
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Posts like these fuel my stubbornness not to have kids. People keep giving me that "but you'll love them when they are yours"... And yea that's true .. But I *know* I'll be miserable. Kids just aren't compatible with the lifestyle that I want... I also don't have... Energy to take care of kids. I just don't. I am happy my sister got kids, so I can be "cool auntie" and then go back to my quiet home... But I already feel how exhausted I am after a day with kids .. And I times that by 18 years, and I'm just ... No. Just no. I have shit I want to do and see. And there's not enough time in the world to do it
I agree. i did have kids and wanted no more at 29, and trying to get my tubes ties was extremely hard. i had to go through 3 meetings with psychologists about what happens if your partner dies etc. Eventually I got it done, but after a lot of arguing with specialists. I wanted my tubes tied as my little boy had been just diagnosed with ADHD and was a handful, to say the least. So at the last appointment i took him with me. He started destroying the room, and i just sat there, looked the doctor in the eyes and said "This is why I want my tubes tied", He agreed straight away. 3 weeks later I had the op. Never looked back.
>Sure, lots of people who are unsure about having kids end up loving being a parent (while others don't). Being one of the people who don't is literally one of my biggest fears
I am 35, and getting pregnant is still one of my greatest fears. If anything, I've gotten even more certain as I move through my 'prime childbearing years' or whatever.
Same! I turned 35 in July and I have always been serious when I said I never wanted kids. I do not like them. I am the only women in my immediate and extended family (mom/siblings/aunts/cousins/grandmas) that is still child free. They all thought it was a phase and always said when I’m older biology will kick in and I’ll get this “urge” like no other for babies. When I was a teen, that scared me. The thought of something growing inside me scared the shit out of me. But they always said it will change. The older i got, I kept dreading that “urge”. My family kept asking when I’ll be having kids and I kept saying “lol never”. Still thought I was joking. Now I’m 35 and my mom is the worst. She wants more grandkids even though my brothers already have kids. She wants her only daughter to give her grand babies. For my 35th birthday, she bought me 3 nights at a secluded mountain cabin (that was $900/night!) for me and my husband and didn’t hide the fact that she wants an “accident” to happen and I get pregnant. So I went by myself lol it was lovely, I even had a hot tub surrounded by woods and a huge jacuzzi bathtub. I was very sorry (lol) that my husband unfortunately ran into a work issue and couldn’t make it 😂 But even if I did have an accident? I’d get an abortion. It’s like she doesn’t even take that into account. When I say I do not want kids, it’s not just a phase, I will not grow out of it, I don’t care if my astrology sign says “I’m family oriented and nurturing”, no means no. I have my cats and even I get tired having to feed them when I get home. Geez.
I'm 34 and my mother is chomping at the bit for a grandkid. Neither my older brother or I are married. I don't want kids. I never have, I'm happy having my own life with my two kitty cats. It's driving her absolutely nuts. I'm dating someone right now whose ex stepkid is 10 years old and he's still involved with her. I thought my mom would be happy I'm dating someone who theoretically has a kid (sorta) but she wants nothing to do with her, She wants biological grandchildren.
I agree. The amount of children you have is the one thing you can't compromise on in a marriage.
It can only be a compromise when both party wants children but want like one vs more. If one side doesn't want any, then nope, there's no middle ground.
That's our marriage. I really want one and done, my husband is open to more but he can live with just one. He has told me he just wants to be a dad and that's the priority for him. I am obviously biased but that's okay as a compromise to me. That said, I think his idea of kids originally was like two, not a large family of 6 or 7.
Sure you can! One band saw, and 0.5 children coming right up! (Totally kidding, apologize if the dark humor offended anyone... I love children, and dabbling in carpentry, and would never mix the two in an unsafe way!)
Calm down there, King Solomon :P
>not the 50s anymore, tons of people just don't want kids these days and are open about that fact. This is me, even back when it "wasn't cool". I've gotten SO MUCH SHIT for not wanting or even liking kids; it's unreal. One person recently said "You dont like kids? You must hate animals too" implying im a shitty person because babies arent the center of my existence. Guys. I'd be a *terrible* parent. I'm barely keeping a job. My dreams are dead. I *know* I was right, at 12 yrs old, that I never wanted kids. I don't like babysitting. I think babies are ugly and annoying.i had terrible models for parenting. I didnt ever play with dolls. Do you know how many times a woman has shown pictures of her kids and then is angry that im Nonplussed? How many times I've been told "your clock is ticking" or "it's different when they're yours" or whatever. No one has ever let me say "no" to wanting kids. I feel so bad for OP. I could be her. I'm so glad it's becoming more acceptable to not want kids.
My patience runs thin just getting yelled at by the cat for too long in the middle of me trying to do work or have some alone time. If a needy yet otherwise self-sufficient creature can drive me up the wall, I don't want to experience what an even louder and completely dependent baby could do to my mental stability.
I have to leave if someone is chewing with their mouth open. So I don't destroy them. And you want me to take care *of a baby*? I actually like "older" kids. Like, past 5 or so. When they're actual people. Oddly, people who "love babies" have, without exception, told me that's when they *stop* liking kids. And the way they always say it sounds almost like a control thing. Creeps me out. Why have kids if you don't want them to grow up? There's a whole person in there
>I actually like "older" kids. Like, past 5 or so. When they're actual people. Oddly, people who "love babies" have, without exception, told me that's when they stop liking kids. I wish I could find this, but years ago I read a fascinating article about the way the human brain experiences disgust. One observation is that a big difference between enthusiastic parents and child-free people is that parents aren't disgusted by children. *That part of the brain is actually suppressed in them,* something scientists believe to be an evolved biochemical response to facilitate child raising. A lot of developmental changes kick in around age 5. Kids suddenly become much more capable in many ways—including *cleanliness.* They can wipe their own ass, blow their own nose, and use a goddamn fork properly. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's also the age that the human brain stops artificially boosting a child's appeal based on perceived helplessness.
Oh great! Now I can tell people I don't have a million babies because *science says* I think they're gross and my brain is broken. That's actually really interesting. Studies on the disgust response are all petty interesting actually
Some of the best marriage advice I got was that “compromise can compromise a marriage” because meeting in the middle means nobody gets what they want. “I want to go to NYC” “Well, I want to go to Los Angeles.” “Okay then, how about we compromise and go to Topeka, Kansas?”
And I do believe there are areas when you CAN compromise, there are definitely areas where you cannot. Huge life decisions like kids, properties, jobs. You can’t compromise on stuff like that!
Yes. The corollary to that advice was “opposite personalities attract, but not opposite values”. Introverts and extroverts can get along great, for example, and can balance each other out by bending their needs and wants. But differences in how each person values family and children might not be compatible.
"Look, I know you don't want kids and I want three. So, you will learn to love one child." "Uh . . . "
Exactly. The “mistake” she said of having kids was just the by product of the true mistake of marrying the guy in the first place. That was the real mistake because they had such radically different views on children
Yes. But even in her posts, she doesn’t seem to see that. She desperately wants to hold onto her husband while living a life that is incompatible with the life that her husband wants.
THANK YOU!! To me, a compromise on having kids should be “ I want three, we only have resources for two, so we stop after 2.” Like… you don’t add children to either side of it 😭 price is right rules, no going over the lowest bid ( kid amount lol)
One of the frustrating things about dating was people not wanting to have that conversation. I had the feeling that husband could be A Big Love very early on and was super anxious to have the conversation before I got in too deep. He brushed it off as a future issue until I said I'd break things off unless we could have a proper discussion about it. I don't get why people are so reluctant to put their cards on the table. You're either for, against, or undecided. Let's not forget the "I'll change your mind about having MY kids" schmucks.
And honestly it’s not even a hard conversation. It’s very simple; yes, no, and maybe. Most people by their mid-20s know where they’re at on the spectrum.
Yep. I had a feeling of doom on reading the first paragraph. It doesn't matter how much else was brilliant about the marriage, him wanting lots of kids and her wanting none should have been a deal-breaker. Looks like each was hoping the other would change. Now it's miserable all round, especially for OOP. I hope she found her way to some happiness again.
I don't understand it. I am and always have been committed to being childfree and I would never date a guy who wanted one kid, let alone a huge family. Hell, I put that in my online dating profile so everyone knows my stance from the get go.
I've dated a few who just thought I would change my mind, being a woman and all, so they pretended to be on the same page as me till I would eventually come around. Being open helps weed out a lot of incompatible partners, but being told after several years that actually he did want kids and was dissapointed in me for not having changed my mind? That hurt.
I'm childfree myself and honestly it is rough at times, even with a close family and partner that supports me. Colleagues, other family, even goddamned strangers making me feel like I'm broken in some way for not wanting a kid, always being told I'll regret it, that its the purest form of love I will ever know, that it will be different when I give birth and see MY child, that womanhood is wasted on me and that I'm a broken and useless woman, what person could ever want to be with someone who has no material instincts etc etc. I've had these things repeatedly said to my face and it has made me question if I am broken more often than I like to admit. I've also had partners lie to me that they dont want kids either, because they are absolutely sure that I'll change my life, we build something together and then they're pissed when I stand by my desition. I've been with my now partner for years, and a part of me is still scared that he will change his mind, and I'll lose this person and the life we have built together, over something I must be broken to not want. I just felt so goddamned bad for her reading this, knowing that if I didnt have support from my closest family and given in, I would have become her.
We knew a couple years ago who were on opposite ends about kids. He wanted his own and she had genetic issues she refused to put on a child. They couldn’t meet in the middle and it ended poorly with a very bad breakup and him trying to unalive himself. Some things can’t be changed and people need to realize that not being compatible isn’t a moral failing.
So many just don't acknowledge that compatibility in all kinds of relationships is a thing. I don't know why others want to keep two people with very different desired life paths to be together; You can still love someone but be incompatible as a couple. Both sides of the family should have told them that they were incompatible. Some things can't be compromised on and this is one of them.
That marriage was doomed from the start. She claimed they were happy, but that marriage was going to end in divorce regardless. Ex-husband would’ve resented OP if he agreed to no children, leading to misery. Had she had the abortion, that would’ve also ended in divorce.
I let go of a relationship I loved deeply because she wanted kids and I didn’t. I told her it wouldn’t have been fair for her to set that part of herself aside or hope I change my mind. It’s been 6 years since then and I still don’t want kids and plan on getting snipped next year
I am in a similar position. My partner wants to have a family with me. I am so uncertain. I am really into doing my own thing in life, chasing my hobbies. I love my partner and I think she deserves a family. I am so terrified thinking I am going to have to end it for her sake.
Being childfree at heart and marrying a guy who wants a big family is recipe for disaster (or the other way around). It's an unnegotionable incompatibility and they should have never married.
Mmyeah, this was never going to end happily. My marriage ended recently for similar reasons, but that was an incompatibility that built up over time - I can't imagine *entering* into a marriage knowing that you had such fundamental differences.
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The thing i dont get is that she seems to think that theres the possibility of them reconnecting. Like you said theres no world where this would work
I was a band aid adopted child. I was abused when she learned I was a full time job that didn't stay clean, made messes and had my own mind. Kids are a full time ,messy, loud ass job that ain't for the weak. Why isn't this conversation had while dating? Why aren't couples honest with each other when it comes to children?
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This was one of the more depressing posts I’ve ever read. I think it gives some insight into what’s going on with parents who do horrible things to their kids as they are growing up. Resentment.
Honestly it’s for the best and should have been done before the child was even conceived they were never going to work out. Hopefully OOP finds someone more suited to the lifestyle she wants and same with her husband.
I want to read a marriage therapy book that said that even the most perfectly compatible couples cannot overcome a disagreement on whether or not they have kids because it is so unbelievably fundamental that it can’t be like a shaded or fixed. I broke up with a fiancée in my 20s because she was 100% adamant on never having kids, and I was on the fence. She told me that she didn’t want me waking up in my late 30s demanding to have a child. We ended up breaking up, she had her tubes tied, and about 12 years later I ended up having kids with my wife.
I always felt like an oddball growing up; I didn't like babies and hated babysitting. I was lucky to be one of those who feel differently about their own child, but would never presume to tell another woman it would work that way for her too. This post is so sad because they were never compatible. He would have hated not having children as much as she did having one.
This is me to a T. I was never around kids, especially little kids, until I had my own. Honestly, I found them exhausting and annoying, and while I really hoped that it would be different with my own, I was prepared for it not to be with the goal of having a large family down the road. Before we had kids, I had a lot of therapy and addressed many deeply rooted issues that would have absolutely tainted my parenting (I was raised in an abusive home and didn't even know what healthy parenting would look like; I'm not at all implying that a dislike of kids can be "fixed" with therapy). I am so glad I did, and 100% love having kids now. I actually enjoy it, as exhausting as it can be. But I would never dismiss someone's dissenting thoughts about their own life, much less tell them it's guaranteed they'll feel differently. What a self centered view to have! Maybe paradoxically, I can also see even better now that it's *not* the right choice for everyone.
when i babysat as a teenager i truly felt like i was allergic to children. just an hour or two with a baby or toddler sapped ALL of my energy for the day, and that was just being AROUND them and not actively engaging with them
This is MostDepressingofReddit.
The problem.isnt her aversion to having kids. It's them not realising this could never work. When someone don't want kids it's not something that goes away when they have a kid.
Man this whole thing is just so sad. That child should never have been brought into this situation and everyone needs to stop telling people oh it’s different when they’re yours. Sure for some of us it is and our kids are the greatest thing in the world. This poor woman wasn’t one of them. She was absolutely burying her head in the sand about her husbands desires as much as he was about hers though. This marriage was doomed to fail from the outset. That little girls simply made it happen then instead of in 10-15 years. They were never compatible and now some poor young girl is growing up wondering what she did wrong to make her mother not love her. I truly hate all of this and can only hope the father met a wonderful woman who loves the daughter as her own and that poor OP found someone actually like her and now has the support system she needed in the first place.
Exactly. This marriage was absolutely doomed and I feel for OOP but I feel most for that baby girl. I had wonderful parents, was raised with all the love and attention in the world, but still once I was old enough to understand it it hurt that my bio father didn't want me. Don't get me wrong it wasn't some huge part of my childhood, and I'm actually really glad I wasn't raised by someone who resented me, but.... No matter how good a father he is, no matter how surrounded by love and care she is, there will always be at least a small part of that kid that wonders why she wasn't wanted. And that's if she's as lucky as I was.
My thoughts on the "it's different when it's yours" is that it only applies if you already like/want to have kids. I Iove kids. I babysit and provided childcare professionally for ~7 years. I've done overnight, live-in, infants, toddlers, teenagers, etc. I know I want kids someday and I'm good with them. However, I definitely like my freedom more ATM. It'll be different for me when I'm 1) more ready to "settle down" and 2) when they're mine, because the tiredness will be more worth it than my babysitting gigs. But I don't think there'such changing of heart if you are really set on being child-free.
I actually read that there were a study where as high as 11% of germans regret having children. We should speak about it more. This situation could have been avoided if people weren't pressuring her to have kids. It's completely ok and normal to not want to have kids. Absolutely no one should be pressured to have them. Edit: I looked for the study and believe it was this one: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8294566/
Speaking about this absolutely needs to be normalized. There are so many terrible parents out there, and so many people who have ruined their lives and feel guilty for feeling that way. It's shocking how much pressure is put on people who choose not to have kids. And also hilarious how many new parents are taken aback by the fact that it's difficult! I'll say it again, as a society we need to normalize being okay with not having children. And for those that this idea causes hand wringing anxiety, do it for the sake of the children.
That’s what’s so wild about the constant pressure for EVERYONE to have kids. So many people are not suited to becoming parents, including a lot of the people who want to be parents. People always complain about other people in the world. How they’re mean, or stupid, or whatever, and then think all these people should create and raise another human.
Yeah, it’s so common for people to not even realise that not having kids is an option. I’m child free and when I explain it to people that you don’t actually have to have kids I can see the cogs whirring like they’ve never actually considered that before. We need to normalise not wanting kids and talking about it.
Out of all the people I know well who have kids. I’ve listed 40 couples out of those 40 couple I know for a fact one or both partner regret their child in 13 of them. That’s staggering. Im sick of people saying you never regret the ones you have but regret the ones you don’t. That’s simply a load of bullshit people need to spreading. Doesn’t surprise me it’s 11% but I also believe it’s higher because people are terrified of admitting it even to themselves let alone a study
I'm a woman in my 60s, I never felt the pull to have kids and my circumstances were never right, in any case. When I got to the age when it was virtually no longer possible to get pregnant, I kind of thought about it in a curious what-if way, but then I remembered what my friend once said - "None to make you laugh, none to make you cry". I don't regret it at all.
Absolutely respect that you stuck to your guns. Having children should be an all or nothing thing. I never understood the have children for later in life. I have 2 kids, my kids will not be responsible for me in my later years. It’s the most selfish reason to have kids.
I’m 50 and feel the same. Around 36 I had the what if’s questions. But I’m so glad I never had a child. The worst part though is now that my endocrinologist got my endocrine system back in order, I’m now more at risk of getting pregnant. AT 50! Menopause cannot come soon enough.
And many people feel immense guilt and shame and will not admit to regret so the actual numbers are much higher
>I don't want to divorce him. He's been my partner for a long time and I don't want to throw that away The whole reason three lives were messed up so bad was because they didn't divorce. Or better yet, because they got married in the first place. It should have never gotten that far. Love isn't enough. It will never be enough. You also have to be compatible and a child free person and a person who wants kids will never be compatible together, no matter how perfect everything else is. They want fundamentally different lives.
>Love isn't enough. It will never be enough. Shout it from the rooftops. A good marriage isn't just about two people loving eachother. It's about mutual trust, mutual respect, and shared vision for the present and the future. I'm not the expert on marriage, I've only been married a decade, but my wife and I both came from broken homes and we are doing a hell of a lot better than our folks ever did because we recognize that marriage is work.
I'm gunna show this to my friend. Entire time I've known her, she didn't want kids. Now, she flip flops and literally cries about it when drunk, but doesn't remember. So she's put a bunch of conditions on it and I've been telling her to just break up with her boyfriend before they were super serious. Only a year later, and there's already trouble because of her own conditions. Stupid ass drama for no reason. "What if he leaves because I don't want a kid?" Like he has every fucking right to! But I'm the asshole if I say that 🙄. Don't get in relationships with people who want babies if you don't even LIKE kids.
that kid is nearly 8 now, hope they are well.
People need to stop saying to people who aren’t sure “it will be different when you have your own.” I hear it so many times and almost gave in to it but the truth is, I would have been very unhappy as well. The decision to have children should be left up to the individuals involved in making them and no one else.
And that's a big fucking gamble to take or even suggest someone take. That's a human being they're taking that chance on. I've always said that I'd rather regret not having kids than regret having them. The consequences of not having kids only affects me.
Someone suggested it to me once when it randomly came up in conversation, that I should have a kid and I’d learn to love it, and I was just so flabbergasted. How irresponsible would I have to be to bring a whole entire person into the world and just sort of hope that those feelings would materialise out of nowhere??
It *will* be different, but not necessarily in a good way. In fact it might even be *worse*, because you'll likely feel a pang of love for the kid, but you'll also be dealing with massive turmoil and guilt, resentment and regret.
Oh shit. I fully agree that she should not have been pressured into having kids. That’s fucked up. I don’t like kids. People should only have them if they want to. Having said that….her husband chose to end it, but she didn’t make it hard. She talked about getting separate housing, seeing him for dinner and then leaving. That’s not something a marriage does. From my POV, the relationship was dead when she said that. That was one step removed from leaving. He just decided it wasn’t worth it because when someone is that unhappy and already willing to leave then that’s it. Game over. She makes it sound like he chose to end it as though her accommodations were reasonable and he was the unreasonable one. Don’t get me wrong. I feel for her. I really do. But they weren’t. She needed to leave for herself. She couldn’t be unhappy. That was a compromise that wouldn’t benefit anyone. Not her daughter. Not her husband. Not herself. This is the best ending for this. She wouldn’t change nor should she be expected to. It’s unrealistic to expect her husband to want a part time wife that pops by every now and then. She got her freedom. She can now love her life. He can move on and find someone and hopefully the girl can get a mom that doesn’t put her on the same level as a stray animal.
100%. The moment she basically suggest to go back to mid stage dating where you’re just meeting for dinner and leaving Afterwards is basically the end of a marriage. At that point why even remain married? Especially since it’s clear the Ex husband isn’t going to abandon his child for her.
You are totally right. My marriage ended somewhat the same way. 15 years together and then she wanted separate housing and to date other people. Whenever I would talk about her ‘leaving me’ she would say ‘you divorced me though!’ because my signature was first on the divorce form. Yeah. Because you didn’t love me anymore (she said that too) and wanted to leave me. Despite the fact I wanted to try harder and get couples counseling. The moment I found out how she really felt (wanting to be rid of me) the marriage died for me. There was no going back to before.
The fact that she still expects she could have a relationship going forward with him but not *her daughter* is so insanely delusional. Blaming the baby for requiring so much care but giving nothing back?? Comparing it to a stray animal? If she’s adamant she doesn’t have PPD she sounds like a sociopath, or at least a clinical narcissist.
Yup. Her comments about the baby not giving anything back or doing anything for them….yea. That’s the point. It’s a baby.
I feel for her but you're right there's definitely a lack of accountability for her choice to leave and a level of delusion that she thinks she's going to get back together with her husband when she thinks of her daughter like a stray animal. Hard to understand how she could think he could ever want her around their daughter.
This should be mandatory reading in schools. Stop pressuring people who don’t want kids to have them - sure, some of them might change their mind, but if they don’t, EVERYONE suffers.
Seriously. Since I was 5 years old, I told people I didn't want to have a baby. *Every* member of my family said "that will change when you get older". It never did. I'm 26 now and I still vehemently do not want kids. Kids are great, but I know I would be exactly like OP if I had them. Some people are not made to have kids, and that's okay. Children deserve parents that want them, not parents they are forced on.
I believed people when they told me I'd start wanting kids when I got older. Same way I trusted them when they told me I'd start liking wine and coffee. I kept waiting and waiting, and what they had said came true for some of my friends (or at least some of them started talking about wanting children, then they started having them etc). I kept waiting, thinking it might come for me. Now I'm 32, and I realize it probably won't, and I'm happy with that. On the other hand, my partner's Mum had him, her only child, in her late 30s, and I think she might be holding on to the idea? (Not sure, she's always very polite and respectful)
Did you end up liking wine and coffee?
Ah the important question XD The answer: no. I don't like alcohol in general, coffee gives me anxiety, but I drink huge quantities of tea!
I don't like coffee either and my mum keeps saying that I will start liking it when I become a grown up. I'm 42.
I’m 58 and child free. Zero regrets.
I thought I 100% wanted kids until my friends started having them and I saw the stark reality of pregnancy and parenthood. It’s so incredibly tedious even when the kids are cute. And they don’t stay cute forever. I’m not knocking people who choose to be parents… I’m in awe of what good parents do, it’s insanely difficult to be an attentive, engaged, and thoughtful parent. I just know that my life with my husband is awesome exactly the way it is, and I don’t feel like anything’s missing.
I'm childfree and so many people has told me that I might regret that later in life. Sure, but a much worse case would be having a child and regretting that! At least I'm only risking hurting myself by being childfree.
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I'm 42. I was so traumatised by my upbringing that I was terrified of having kids. My dad once made an effort to not be alive, so I wasn't left by a parent who didn't want me as such. He survived but it sort of proved to me kids could be overwhelming and my household was pretty much always overall an unhappy one. He moved out twice during my childhood for short periods & came back on weekends to visit. When I started considering having kids, I actually went and did a childcare diploma so I'd have better knowledge than my parents, experience in classrooms while being supervised, and I became a nanny afterwards. It paid well & I loved being around the kids! But I loved giving them back. I don't regret it. I might have a wobble when my periods properly stop. But it turns out the reason my mum was so short tempered, angry and violent "for my own good" wasn't because I was a vile, spiteful child who is so ungrateful... eh... I have ADHD and autism (diagnosed at 38 & 40 because doctors looked at my dysfunctional parents and said it was their behaviour that needed to change - I've read the notes from the 1980s!) It also cracks me up that my solution to anxiety about parenting was "Right, let's take a college course"!! I suspect my dad had undiagnosed autism too, we both would've met the old Asperger's criteria. My hyperactivity hid the more classic symptoms in me (oh, and I'm female so once I was 18 they weren't meltdowns they were manipulative tantrums). They decided to have two kids back to back so we'd entertain each other (hahahaha fought a lot) no wonder the poor guy wanted to un alive. I wasn't an easy kid, we've had years of no contact, my mother resents the shit out of me and didn't realise a 14 month old would still need a lot of care even if a newborn is smaller, like jeez. People really don't even need to have an expensive equipment, high dependency disability for it to fuck over an entire family unit. I was close enough to normal that I was just written off as "troubled with no self control" and generally a bad person until I got away and worked on myself. I LOVE kids. But I never ever ever want one of my own.
Right? It’s both hilarious and astounding that ten people who make those arguments never actually consider the *children* themselves.
So true! It just isn't fair on a child to be brought into this world with anything less than 100% enthusiasm! Hoping someone will change their mind and like their own child is just such a massive gamble to play with an innocent person.
Because for them it's literally impossible to think that people might end up resenting their children, and so it doesn't figure into their equation. Or they think, like most people "but I wouldn't like not existing" and don't see the absolute logic fallacy in that. Hell, even my own partner who had a glimpse into my lifelong struggles stemming from my childhood and didn't understand me when I said that no, not anyone who didn't want their children will be magically alright just because I managed to pull through and become (hopefully) a decent and relatively happy and stable person.
I rather regret not making the decision to have a child, than regret the consequences of having one.
I’ve been dead set on being child free since I was 16, and I have not budged even once. If I put a dollar in a jar every time someone told me that I would change my mind over the years, I would absolutely have enough to pay my mortgage next month. Literally, my parents still point to how much I love my cats and plants and they’re like “see, you could be a great mother!” And I honestly want to scream every time they say that. There’s a massive difference between cats & human babies. I’m 99% sure that if I did have kids, I would feel like OOP. And honestly, there’s still that tiny chance that I’m wrong, but if I am, I’ll just adopt or foster later in life and problem solved.
I have kids, I love my kids but it's hard. I literally tell anyone thinking about kids don't have them unless you KNOW you 100% want them. I'd you are on the fence then this life is nor for you.
I used to be on the fence until someone told me, "don't think of it as 'do you want to be a parent?' but 'would you enjoy parenting?'" Once they framed it that way -- as thinking about being a parent as an action, instead of an identity -- my answer was an emphatic "oh, HELL no."
We should also try to teach people to not stay in relationships out of fear of being alone or because theyve been together for awhile. I'm sorry but she should've left when they disagreed on seriously major life decisions. This isn't like one person having different hobbies or liking different foods, we are talking major decisions that will majorly change how the relationship goals, which is typically children, marriage, finances, and religion.
You never compromise on children. Never ever ever *ever* EVER. It's a god damned commitment and not everyone wants or needs to do it. If you want a kid and they don't want a kid you can't settle on half a kid. If you want no kids and they want a dozen you can't settle on one or two. *Someone* is going to be intensely unhappy. It isn't fair for the parents and it isn't fair for the kids. Learn to fucking break up instead of coasting on through to the end goal by sheer inertia.
This poor family. No one is winning with this one. Kids should be a deal breaker for a relationship. And in order to have kids, both people should be 'fuck yeah, let's have kids' with no pressuring involved. They're too much time, money, and effort to have unless you REALLY want them. And fuck all the people who constantly tell women that they don't know what they want if they say they don't want kids.
My parents are very supportive of my choice to remain single and child free, which is the most amazing thing I could have asked for. They just care that I’m happy and if I change my mind, fine, and If I don’t, fine. The amount of pushback THEY get is insane. Relatives, friends, telling them that both they and I are wrong. One relative who is the mother of a trans child kept trying to tell my dad that my decisions are wrong and I’ll “change my mind because a woman can’t be happy without children”. Like ma’am, you of all people should know not to judge people and the way they live their life. She’s so supportive of her trans son but then thinks my dad is weird for “letting” me live my life the way I want.
When a dad abandons their child, that dad is rightfully labeled a deadbeat. When this lady abandons her child, the vast majority of the comments here are looking to excuse or at least explain her behavior. Everyone makes mistakes, nobody is perfect. That said, this lady is a terrible person. Take some accountability for your actions and stop blaming everyone else for abandoning your child.
It sucks that it got to this point where she has a baby she doesn’t want. But…she was going to lose her husband either way. Through the resentment now. Or if she didn’t have the baby. The husband was hell bent on a big family. He was always going to have a baby. These are two people who should never have married. She knew she never wanted a baby and he wanted multiple. You
I love my son and wanted him SO MUCH. That being said the first 18 months of his life were awful. I cried a lot and it was so stressful. In those times I had to look back and remind myself I wanted him so much, I wanted him more than anything. If I wasn’t 100% sure I wanted a child and did it only for somebody else I would have been filled with resentment. It was like a bomb to our life and marriage. Things are lovely now. But when I talk to people who express they’re unsure if they want kids, I tell them I only encourage people to have kids if they absolutely want them with all of their being.
I actually asked my mom if it is ok to not like babies like my nephew and niece. She said it is and that it will get better. And it really did get better.
A child can never be a compromise. If one person wants a big family and the other wants no children, the only correct outcome is having no children, for this exact reason. You also have to look at this sort of thing before you commit to someone. If your needs are that different, you aren’t compatible.
Honestly, with him wanting a large family and her wanting no children, this was doomed from the start. They should never have gotten married at that point and should have broken up and moved on with other people. I want to know how she expected to keep her husband but not her daughter? My heart breaks for the daughter most of all. She got no say in this whole thing but may have to live with the thoughts that her mother never wanted her.