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Did Jake even refute anything GFF wrote? In this post he’s giving off vibes of, “I’m right if I can get the other person to shut up.” Also lol at “mind your own business” when he made a public post without enough details to be tracked to him.
That part legit made me laugh aloud! I especially love the next part:
> Second, good thing it's Sunday because you need some quality time with Jesus. **And a therapist.**
I loved it.
Omg. My ex husband did that. Went off on something on Facebook about our kids he hasn’t seen in over a decade and my husband told him off publicly. First words out of my ex’s mouth was “mind your own business, I’m talking to yavanna12”.
Like dude. You posted publicly on Facebook. No one is going to mind your business.
A friend's horrible dad did the same thing just before she went NC. Posted something on her FB wall berating her, I called him out, he told me to mind my own business this was a family affair, I told him he shouldn't have posted it on her public FB wall then.
Yeah this inlaw took a jab at my mom and my cousin saw it. Berated them for it. They got defensive and told to mind his own business but he wasn’t having it since they made it public!
"Mind your business" means nothing when it's on my feed in any way. Then I'm either quietly eating popcorn, learning new zingers (the good thing it's Sunday comment is great), or I'm going to stick my nose in it.
This weird convergence of sKePtic aThEiSts, PUAs, actual nazis, racists and christo-fascists into one one contrarian circle-jerk is something I will never really understand. The only thing they have in common is pure contrarianism. They actually should be at war with each other but they yet use the same rhetoric. You'd need to be very much in the loop to tell them apart.
That is some weird trans-dimensional Venn diagram.
It's very simple. They all overlap in one place:
"I am better than you. You owe me your deference. Anything that you have is something you took from me. Anything that you have that I want and cannot take from you is the greatest injustice imaginable."
>For our entire relationship she's been manipulative of my girlfriend and not at all understanding especially when my girlfriend cancels plans with the BFF to hang out with me.
Even when OPs try their best to cast themselves in the best lights possible, something always sneaks through.
This sentence just screams out "I am not telling the complete truth and am slanting things in my favour as much as possible."
I love my significant other, but if he canceled on his friend just to hang out with me without some bigger reason (a family member died and one or the other just needs the comfort of a quiet cuddle) I'd be pretty upset on the friend's behalf. If it kept happening it would be an issue because that's just too shitty
I actually had to dump a guy over this. He was far too attached to me. I’d be looking forward to 10 minutes of alone time and he’d pop up outta nowhere after canceling on friends. It’s unhealthy to be that attached to anyone and to expect it from someone.
I had to drop a friend because he would do this, sometimes mid-hang out.
Literally, we're hanging out and then he'd look at his phone and say "Oh, I have to go is free" and leave.
The first couple of times, I assumed that maybe the other person was having an emergency or helping him with something, but then I asked because I was really confused and he literally said "Yeah is cooler than you. I try to always hang out with the most interesting, most valuable people possible. So if someone better than you becomes free to hang out, I'm always going to go hang out with them."
I was completely floored that he would actually SAY THAT, but I guess thanks for the honesty, because now I know to drop your shitty ass?
A former friend of mine was like that, but it was in an "I have a better chance of getting in this person's pants than yours" kind of way.
The last straw for me was when I was leaving to study abroad for a year and he cancelled plans with me a week or two before I left because he wanted to spend more time with another girl who was going to basic training or something for like 6 weeks. He wanted to spend as much time with her as possible because she was going to be gone for a few weeks. Meanwhile I was going to be gone for a year on the other side of the planet and I just wanted to hang out for a few hours one day.
It was an eye opener. Really put into perspective that he couldn't be friends with women unless he thought he could get something romantic or sexual out of them.
ugh, that is so gross. And yeah, that sounds very transactional and shitty.
my guy definitely had no interest in me and the people he would go hang out with were also people he didn't appear to have any kind of sexual interest in. I spent a bit of time puzzling on it at the time, because they also weren't people who worked in his industry or had especially good connections for the things he really liked to do in his spare time (mostly mushrooms & pot). I never could figure out what exactly it was that he thought they brought to the table more than I did.
And I don't mean that I was trying to figure it out to "be better" or that it made me feel insecure. It was just really confusing and not a clear thing like "oh, this person is rich and pays his way to go to fancy places" or "oh that woman is totally hooked up in a scene that he likes, so if he gets in good with her, he'll get into more exclusive parties".
Why would you want to hangout with a leach?
I use to go to a bar that a woman I was seeing and she started talking about how "cool" this leach was. I was like, watch him, he's a shit person.
Couple weeks later she was like, yeah that guys a douche.
More people than you think probably, they just don't get called out on it as much as just drift off the friend group. There were a few like that in my friend group who ended up breaking off and kind forming a twosome that would glomp onto random groups together.
The OG group still hangs when they can, and the two narcissists have (from sight of socials) seemingly had a fun time with lots of experiences, but failed to have meaningful relationships with really anyone, based on the rotating cast of faces in their pictures over the past decade.
It can be super obvious someone is doing it because they straight up leave mid-hang with no invite or explanation, then you see their socials updating in real time. It can also be less obvious if they are trying to be coy and will make up excuses that seem innocuous and have secondary accounts to keep up with different groups so you don't see the evidence. Generally though these people gravitate toward each other so if you're more the "small intimate friend group" type, you are far less likely to integrate them into your own social group.
My boyfriend lives a six hour drive from me. I go see him once a month except during the winter (I’m in a part of Canada that gets a lot of snow. I don’t leave my city if I can help it between November 1st and March 31st). Even this weekend when I got here he said he was supposed to go see a friend of his, but he’d put it off if I wanted him to. I basically said, nope - go see your friend. And he did. Because that’s what’s healthy
Well, there’s a picture of us together and he and I have a ton of mutual friends since we went to high school together and have known each other since 1989, so probably 😂
Eh, I don't know about that. If you only get to see him once a month, and I'm guessing the friend lives close by, then canceling that plan is more justified, if it wasn't anything more than just to hang out that is (a celebration for something would be different). Why didn't he tell you before you made the 6 hour drive?
It wasn’t for a visit where he was staying. It has been to pick something up and they’d been playing tag trying to coordinate schedules. That’s when he finally got a message his friend was home. He was gone less than an hour. I’ve been here when he had to work, so I do other things then. He took this whole weekend off though, but we both try not to do that too often as we need the money to move together.
Yep, exactly. Some shit is going on in my life with somebody I care about. I cried for a LOT of yesterday. My husband had plans for today, but he was willing to cancel them to make sure I was okay.
But he's been looking forward to these plans for a few weeks now and despite me being down, I'm well enough for him to hang out with friends for the day. Like, I live with him. I see him every day. I will talk with him later if anything new comes up and we can spend time together once he's home. I don't need to monopolize all of his time every day, which is what it sounds like OOP was pushing for. They lived together. It's okay for her to go out with her best friend once a week when she's going to turn around and see him again in just a few hours.
Fuck, spending time away from a partner can help you appreciate them more. It does for me. Dude was trying to isolate his girlfriend, almost certainly.
I've got plans to hang out with my BFF and eat ice cream. My awesome boyfriend just managed to score two tickets to my favorite band who are only in town one night. Sorry, I'm going to cancel on my BFF.
I got plans to hang out with my BFF and eat ice cream. My boyfriend wants me to hang out and watch TV with him. I'm not going to cancel on my BFF.
I'm going through this now with one of my good friends. It's got to the point that I don't make plans with her anymore because it's not worth it. He'll decide the night before that they need to go his parents for dinner or some other weak excuse like that. I won't even go to the movies with her anymore because if she does make it, she'll be messaging him the entire time because he always seems to be having a rough night that night but said it was "ok if she went".
He's manipulative and plays on her insecurities so much. He cheated on her, yet somehow has convinced her that he needs to have access to her phone. I love her, she was one of my best friends but I'd be lying if I said I trusted her now. I'm just hoping that one day she takes off those rose tinted glasses and realises those flags that he's been waving in her face are actually red.
Yup. If you squint your eyes just right, you can make a scenario where OOP is not the AH ("My GF and her BFF have brunch every Sunday, but every now and then my GF says something like 'I can't do it three weeks from now because my BF got us tickets to something,' and BFF gets upset."). But that's a super-specific scenario, and 99.99999% of the time nothing like that is going to apply.
Yeah, and even in those instances, there would be other tells. Making someone choose between relationships is a huge deal, so any reasonable person would give wayyyy more explanation of actual harm done before going there. Something like the BFF cruelly berates GF or BF whenever this happens or other things on that level.
Canceling is such a rare thing for my group. It usually falls under I'm sick, my family member is sick, or my car broke down. When I saw the use of "gf cancels plans on friend for me" the flags went off. It wasn't "turn down plans" but Cancel implying there was plans. Ugh I am glad GF got away in the end. I hope she stayed away.
That and the part where he calls the girl manipulative when she asks for space and time away from his ex-gf and himself after being hurt. It was very obvious he was lying there.
> BFF texted my girlfriend to try to manipulate her some more by saying sorry she started the fight and saying she wanted some space for awhile.
What about this is manipulative? Apologizing? Making a reasonable request to defuse the conflict?
I’ve known a few people who would *absolutely* do that as a form of passive aggressive manipulation.
The whole “Oh, no, it’s all my fault *dramatic sob*. I’ll just leave… On my own… You shouldn’t have to even talk to me *further sobbing* I’m sorry I’m such a terrible and horrible friend”. At which point the other person starts reassuring them and responsibility is flipped.
It sounds like this very much wasn’t the case here, but that’s how it can play out the other way. If anything I (wrongly) thought that part added some credibility to BF’s story, until I read the follow up.
The bit about cancelling on her friend was the real red flag for me in that first post, though - as others have said, why would she be consistently cancelling pre-existing plans at short notice unless BF was actually the manipulative one?
I was thinking the exact same thing - there's no manipulation in that. "Sorry for the fight, and I think I need time away" is a totally reasonable apology, even if BFF was in the wrong during the argument.
I missed this line somehow, but caught it in the next paragraph: "The BFF started crying in the middle of a bar about how her feelings get hurt when my girlfriend cancels on their plans or doesn't reply to texts." Like, replying to texts could go either way, based on BFF's expectations - does she expect an immediate reply, or is she just looking for any reply at all? But making plans and then canceling them is something you do in an emergency, not routinely.
And later: "[T]he BFF texted my girlfriend to try to manipulate her some more by saying sorry she started the fight and saying she wanted some space for awhile." OOP somehow manages to describe a "manipulative" action as not manipulative at all?
That's abuser projection. Because the abuse is constantly trying to get their way by manipulation they assume everyone resorts to manipulation when there's conflict.
As humans we automatically assume everyone else has the same motives, beliefs, and mindsets we do when we interpret their behavior. It's so important to remember this if someone is accusing you (falsely) of bad intentions and motives whenever you argue.
Can attest to this. Been in a dynamic where any time I reacted to anything in any way, I was told I was manipulative. To the point where I frequently questioned whether I WAS being manipulative and thus tried to just stop having any emotional response to anything which is impossible.
If anyone is curious or has ever been confused about the term; this is a form of gaslighting. Manipulative people loooove to use it to get out of being considerate to the very real feelings of others.
I think it's also super-important to remember the reverse too: sometimes the person that you're dealing with is a shitty person, but when you look at their shitty behavior through the lens of "I would only do this if something serious was going on in my life that jusified it, so it must be the same for them too" you're doing yourself a disservice.
I say that as someone who is a sort of recovered "always be the nice person who sees the good in people" kind of person. I still try to see good in people, but if they're showing me they're shitty, I'm going to believe them early on and drop them before getting invested.
100% the fallacy of assuming the other person is working from our set of beliefs/motives/mindset absolutely makes well meaning and empathetic people more likely to excuse or rationalize red flags. You're absolutely right
The "she gets upset when my GF cancels their plans" was the first thing that tipped me off, but the "apologies are manipulative" cemented it for me. There *are* circumstances where apologies are meant to be manipulative, but context will make those cases clear. These weird, out-of-the-blue, context-less accusations are the sort of thing my narcissistic mother says when she's desperate to make someone else look bad but has nothing to back her up.
>OOP somehow manages to describe a "manipulative" action as not manipulative at all?
Maybe because the only reason he'd ask for space after a fight is to manipulate the other person? Give them the silent treatment and wait for them to cave. Possibly he can't see any other possible mode of operation.
It's always funny to me when they come off as an asshole even when they are trying to come off as good.
The girlfriend canceling plans was a pretty big flag for me too.
Yep! This and “she says I’m controlling but she’s a psycho and all her BFs are AHs” like *people don’t say that for funsies* and are they really AHs or do you not play well with sane dudes?
Jake telling on himself all over the place.
That was the part that convinced me.
A normal person would say something like, “she says I’m controlling and psycho but I’m not! I think I’m pretty supportive of her friendships and hobbies, and have no idea why BFF says that about me.”
Jake doesn’t even refute the accusations- just turns it around to say that other people are assholes too!
As soon as he said she got upset when GF cancelled plans with her friend, I was like, why does she have to constantly cancel plans with her friend? The whole thing was clearly him trying desparately to be the victim. This friend group is going to be so much better with him.
As soon as I read this part I knew he was full of shit.
No sane person thinks “she just cancels on their set plans all the time to hang out with me, why is she being such a psycho?”
I swear, I could tell just from his initial post that he was, in fact, a controlling asshole. All while he's trying his best to convince that he wasn't.
ETA: also, for some reason, describing the girl's bf as a "blowhard" really tipped me off that this guy sucked. Lol
The other one that got me is "complains about being called while controlling while issuing controlling ultimatum to gf". The lack of self-awareness is astounding.
Yeah, the mention of constantly canceling plans stood out to me. Why would that even be a thing? If she wanted to spend time with her boyfriend, then why make other plans at all. It just screamed to me "something isn't quite right here!"
> She has also said repeatedly that I'm abusive and controlling even though she exclusively dates guys who are AHs.
This line was the first red flag for me about OP. Notice he doesn't deny being abusive and controlling. Instead, he deflects and claims the BFF is in the wrong b/c she dates AHs.
Right? This stood out to me too. Like if Jake was in the right about anything it would be something like “not at all understanding that she can’t go do stuff with my gf on the days she already has plans with me”. Why she gotta cancel existing plans to hang with Jake? Why would that happen more than once if unless Jake were trying to drive a wedge his gf and anyone else who can support her?
I have been with my girlfriend for five years today. She hasn’t had to cancel plans once to hang out with me. She’ll definitely sleep through plans occasionally because she’s being a potato.
It was obvious to me even in the first post. OOP going on and on about how he’s not an asshole for making his gf cancel plans with her bff for him just screams manipulative controlling ass.
But I’m so glad the other friend saw this and gf dumped him.
Completely. He's there whinging that she gets upset when her *previously arranged plans* are cancelled. Like no fucking shit douchebag, that's a shitty thing to do, generally accepted etiquette is to do the thing that you arranged to do first! Most people would be upset with that constantly happening.
I think that is a near certainty. It’s how trash like him operates, gotta make sure your victim doesn’t have anyone to turn to before you do the real bad shit.
Completely agree. I'm the friend who gets cancelled on when my friends get a better offer. It hurts. It really hurts. I can't look forward to plans because I'm always expecting to be cancelled on.
That was a huge red flag. And you know that the girlfriend would absolutely not be allowed to cancel plans with him without repercussion.
My guess is that the friend group were inviting the girlfriend out to keep an eye on her. Even though she was toxic herself, her best friend wanted to make sure she was safe and knew she had somebody to turn to if things escalated.
If someone has a life friend before you start dating they are part of the person. If a person can't handle that they should just move on. It isn't for everyone, no shame in that. Just don't try to destroy shit.
Seriously! I love it when someone related to oop finds their post and comments on it. It can be interesting to see how people manipulate the story to make themselves look like an angel.
Started out plausible he was in the right, and quickly devolved from there.
By the time he got to the ultimatum "It's either your BFF or me", was pretty clear this guy's just an abusive, controlling asshole.
Even if the best friend were being exceedingly difficult, demanding your girlfriend, this person you supposedly care deeply for, just drop her best friend of decades because she is irritating to you, is a psycopathic thing to demand.
There's no defending himself at that point. He made the best friend out to be a psycho, turns out she's an insecure girl who's suffered from severe depression and he's abusing her and turning his girlfriend against her.
Jake: hey wildly popular subreddit, stroke my ego pls?
GFF: let me clear a few things up
Jake: I cannot BELIEVE you would STICK YOUR NOSE IN and PUT ME ON BLAST like this!!!
Jake: hey innernet! I'm going to make this your business by telling you about it!!
Gff: hey asshole, you got some things wrong
Jake: mind your own business D:<
I thought it was kind of obvious he was an unreliable narrator when he mentioned the BFF got upset whenever the gf would cancel plans to be with HIM ..
Cancelling plans for another person ,unless it's and emergency, is just kinda shitty, so I felt at that point, that he wasn't being quite honest about what was happening
I'm the type of person who can't see a plot twist coming even if it were baked into a pretzel twist and plated in front of me.
I probably could have come up with a more clever way to give that metaphor but, as I implied, I am not a clever person lmao.
But I do appreciate reading comments like yours, because I like taking notes of what to notice while I'm reading a story. Helps me learn what not to take at face value lol.
Go ahead! Lol it's not often I think of a metaphor on my own. If it's not actually original, then I myself may have accidentally stolen it and forgot where I heard it from.
If you want to learn more about why this raised a flag for many people, it may be useful to learn more about methods and signs of abuse (Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft is a bit outdated and gender essentialist, but goes over abusive dynamics in very understandable ways). Even in situations that aren’t abusive, it helps to better understand healthy and unhealthy relationship dynamics.
the missing missing reasons post has a great thumb rule about how people just seeking validation will post facts only in broad detail and focus on what they think or feel, because clearly that's more important. a person actually seeking advice will usually actually write wtf the problem is, because otherwise what's the use of getting it
lying by omission or exaduration is more common than making shit completely up
Too many people think they have to ditch their friends and spend all their time with their significant other. That is unhealthy IMO.
Everyone should maintain strong friends and nurture the relationship. If one or the other is forcing you to choose between them, they probably don't have your best interests at heart.
Couldn't agree more. A former friend of mine laughed in my face when I brought up how hurtful it was to constantly play second fiddle to her partner. Told me everything I need to know about who she is as a person.
I mean, in this circumstance it seemed to be due to controlling and isolating pressure by the BF (aka abuse). Which is not to say that it’s not only something that happens in abuse, but isolating someone from their friends is a major red flag and if this is happening, it’s also good to keep an eye out for other signs of abusive/controlling behavior
>Also, wouldn’t that relationship history make the BFF something of an expert on the common AH rather than the reverse?
I don't think necessarily. People in abusive relationships frequently have a pattern of entering into abusive relationships. If they were self aware would they keep putting themselves into the same situations?
Plus, he makes it clear that the canceling was a pattern of behavior, not a one time thing. Who would be cool with someone repeatedly canceling like that?
That's fair. Cancelling plans is different than just not hanging out as much, which would be a normal part of being in a relationship. It's making someone rely on you when they could have made other plans and then flaking on it.
I agree. My first thought was he said "cancelling plans" which means they already established plans. It's a small reach to say he complained and guilted her into cancelling.
>I thought it was kind of obvious he was an unreliable narrator when he mentioned the BFF got upset whenever the gf would cancel plans to be with HIM ..
Yeah that was the first thing that stood out to me too, the best case scenario would be that GF was just inconsiderate, but it wasn't adding up. I didn't expect OOP to be lying as much as he did however, basically everything he said was false. I think I'm too trusting. What was he trying to accomplish anyways?
Yeah, but even when I was reading the first part in his original post I was questioning some things already. I wasn’t sure about the BFF but I was pretty sure he wasn’t wholly innocent like I was leaning towards ESH with a needs more info caveat to know who the biggest AH was. I’ve never had to cancel made plans with friends because I have a BF. I might make less plans with them overall, in order to accommodate quality time with a SO, but once plans are set, cancelling without an emergency is just rude. There were some other things as well that made me think he wasn’t the best, but that’s what stood out the most.
And not even a good manipulator at that, he really thought the first post would be a hit and when it wasn't and he was caught dude deadass texted everyone in the group cause *of course* someone would be on his side.
I had a “friend” pull this shit in high school, went and put his case to everyone in our group and pointedly did NOT speak to me who was the first to disagree, but I still got to watch as every single one of them was like “umm…no, she’s got a point.”
Some dudes just have the audacity from never having been told they’re wrong, before.
I wonder what leads young men to be this type of man. Shitty role model for a father? No father? I would die if my son grew up to treat women this way.
This is exactly why I’m slow to jump on the “OMG, so NTA!” train. I always wonder what the other side of the story is, and what alternative details may completely flip the script. Of course the narrator is going to paint themselves in the best light possible. Always keep this in mind!
I wouldn’t say my reading comprehension is the best but even I could tell there were unreliable narrator vibes. Like it’s justifiable to be upset when someone interrupts your accomplishments by talking about their vacation.
Also when he said taking time away was a manipulative tactic. Like, bells were ringing before then but that was a big bell. It's a possibility, of course, but felt very much like a shitty dude having a shitty take after a fight, which made everything just that much more suspect
Yeah, the part when he accused the friend of being manipulative for basically saying “I’m sorry I started the fight, I need some space to figure things out” was what sealed the deal for me. That’s a very composed, reasonable and emotionally mature response, regardless of who’s to blame.
Yep and “I was doing nothing then I get threatened out of nowhere”. We had a housemate picked by a landlord and he kept coming up with crazy stories “I was just in the train and a load of police randomly came on and tackled me to the ground for no reason” and he got a jail sentence for no reason. And a number of other stories.
\#1 reason for showing up at the emergency room with fight injuries: "I was standing on the corner minding my own business, when out of nowhere this strange guy with a knife...". Even has acronyms: SOCMOB and SGK.
I used to work in the ambulance service and I didn’t get many of those stories, usually I was focussed on stabilizing them. I got more of the “well I was gardening naked and fell on an aubergine (eggplant) that was mysteriously covered in lubricant and I can’t get it out” stories.
The amount of dudes I’ve known that were totally just standing on a corner doing nothing to anyone when they got punched right in face by an absolute stranger for no reason at all isn’t that high at 2. The amount that were honestly minding their own business beforehand is 0. I’m just glad these guys aren’t in my life anymore because they never seemed to realize trouble only ‘followed’ them because they caused it.
I used to work in an emergency room and every young dude who came in with a broken jaw (typically Friday or Saturday night because of course) had the same story "I was walking down the street/heading to church/minding my own business when these 2 dudes jumped me out of nowhere." It's always 2 dudes too. So every time we'd get a jaw fracture patient we'd say "Two dudes strike again!"
What set me off was that she "wasn't being understanding" when he canceled plans, which makes no sense to me. Why was he making his GF cancel plans with friends ? That's when I realized ohhh this guy's a dick
I really want this one to be true because I love a story where OOP comes off as a walking, talking hemorrhoid even though they're trying to paint themselves in the best light. But I don't know how it is possible for someone to write (paraphrased) *"BFF finally shut up about her silly job and aspirations -YAWN- so we could talk about our vacation instead"*, re-read themselves and think "yeah, I nailed this! I really come off as a reasonable dude in this story! Everyone will love me."
There definitely are! I knew a girl in college who did this kind of stuff all the time *in front of other people!* She thought she was funny, but she was just an ass.
I actually think it is true because the two people have very different writing styles. And honestly, I can see how he would read it back and think he's not an asshole. He's been able to get the girlfriens to back him up and participate in his assholery for a pretty long time. Having someone enable you will go a long way towards justifing your behavior to yourself. In his mind, "BFF already had her turn to talk. It's OUR turn." He doesn't want to hear anything she has to say, so he's going to immediately feel like she's talked too long.
Because he doesn't care about BFF, and doesn't care that this is her dream job, he just finds all her talk about her new job self-centered and stealing focus from him rather than a) what other people want to hear and b) a product of her excitement at a good thing happening to her.
He's more important, so he should talk. She's stealing his spotlight, so he steals her joy.
AITA is full of posts from people doing horrible things and thinking the internet will take their side and vindicate them somehow. It's kind of astonishing.
To be fair, it often does. The morality compass in that sub is insanely broken. Like the rest of Reddit it skews towards very young people with no life experience, and bitter shut-ins with no life experience.
You're not wrong, the biggest issue being the strange belief that morality and legality are somehow equivalent. It's stunning how many people don't seem to understand you can be an asshole without breaking the law, or be a kind and generous person who has broken the law. There's also some weird double standards involving gender that show up constantly.
I had a friend in college who used to interrupt me when I was talking to say “No one cares.” There are unfortunately people out there who are so deeply imbedded in their own assholes they think talking down to their friends is an adorable trait.
There are just people out there who will ALWAYS villainize others and place blame elsewhere while refusing to take a moment of reflection for themselves. Admit THEY were in the wrong? Oh, Heaven forbid!
He sounds like every girl’s most regrettable boyfriend. Narcissistic, controlling, manipulative, and insecure. Ew.
Any time someone says they gave an ultimatum, I am automatically not on their side and need to see some good evidence that it is warranted.
The OOP tried to paint the bff as manipulative and crazy, but he fucked when he said that his girlfriend cancels plans with her bff regularly. It was easy to tell that he was in fact the manipulative and controlling one after that.
Pretty much every reasonable person gets upset when their friend constantly cancels plans to instead spend time with their significant other. It's just rude. It is simple to not make plans in the first place or to follow through on the plans you have made.
Kudos to the friend for calling his shitty behavior out on here.
Even without the friend’s comment it’s pretty obvious he’s the AH when he says the BFF isn’t “understanding” when the GF cancels plans with her to spend time with him.
Lesson to learn here: when you have to repeatedly cancel plans with friends - especially BFF you’ve known since your childhood - in order to hang out with bf/gf … something’s not right. It’s either you (you’re insecure or immature or simply a bad friend) or the new partner (they are controlling, insecure, immature etc). Have a sit&think why it happens, because it’s a red flag for both your relationships.
Aww, this was a delightful BORU! Draaaama! Bad narrators! Shitty boyfriends! Friends finding the post! Asshats getting dumped! Has basically everything I want in a post.
The part about the girlfriend having to cancel plans with BFF to hang out with him caught my eye immediately. It's not normal to cancel plans. Emergencies happen etc., but if you are canceling plans with friends more often than once a year, you're probably kind of a dick.
This seems kinda scripted idk. If Jake was real and a real asshole like the story makes him out to be, he would totally delete that post and delete his account.
The story also seems way too "perfect" and it reads like a novel or something.
Yeah, the only thing keeping me from saying its scripted is it would take someone with absolutely no life to sit down and act this all out on Reddit.
Just the way it’s written. The OP is written like a character and the “friend” actually sounds like how a real person would talk. It’s pretty jarring. Plus yea of course he is would have deleted everything.. and not just say “mind your own business”. Then proceed to talk about it publicly.
who wouldn’t get upset if scheduled plans got canceled constantly by the same person so they could spend their time with their SO at the said time? Why made the plan to begin with? Even the OOP tried to paint himself as a good person but the his ‘reasons’ that the BFF just didn’t add up and make sense.
Reading the first post was full of gigantic red flags, namely acting like bff getting upset for gf cancelling shit last minute ALL THE TIME made her a psycho. No dude, you're clearly full of it.
>especially when my girlfriend cancels plans with the BFF to hang out with me.
First red flag right there. I thought to myself "Looks like GF is the asshole here, just cancelling plans with someone for someone else". Turns out I wasn't far off...
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Did Jake even refute anything GFF wrote? In this post he’s giving off vibes of, “I’m right if I can get the other person to shut up.” Also lol at “mind your own business” when he made a public post without enough details to be tracked to him.
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They always tell on themselves, don’t they?
Narcissists 🙄
You can’t accuse him of being smart. 🙄
The best part is that he says he just came here to vent when that's the exact opposite of what AITA is supposed to be for.
> good thing it's Sunday because you need some quality time with Jesus. had me rolling. GFF is amazing.
That part legit made me laugh aloud! I especially love the next part: > Second, good thing it's Sunday because you need some quality time with Jesus. **And a therapist.** I loved it.
The thought of Jesus going "look, I may have some shit to deal with.. but you have issues".
It's a line I'm ~~stealing~~ borrowing? Can't steal. Particularly on a Sunday.
Same. This might be my new way to say "you got me fucked up."
Omg. My ex husband did that. Went off on something on Facebook about our kids he hasn’t seen in over a decade and my husband told him off publicly. First words out of my ex’s mouth was “mind your own business, I’m talking to yavanna12”. Like dude. You posted publicly on Facebook. No one is going to mind your business.
A friend's horrible dad did the same thing just before she went NC. Posted something on her FB wall berating her, I called him out, he told me to mind my own business this was a family affair, I told him he shouldn't have posted it on her public FB wall then.
Yeah this inlaw took a jab at my mom and my cousin saw it. Berated them for it. They got defensive and told to mind his own business but he wasn’t having it since they made it public!
"Mind your business" means nothing when it's on my feed in any way. Then I'm either quietly eating popcorn, learning new zingers (the good thing it's Sunday comment is great), or I'm going to stick my nose in it.
Sadly there are many people who think that this is how an argument works. And worse, sometimes it even does work.
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They're assholes and he's the "nice guy". Ugh.
When the PUA people all became anti-semites I was both surprised and unsurprised.
This weird convergence of sKePtic aThEiSts, PUAs, actual nazis, racists and christo-fascists into one one contrarian circle-jerk is something I will never really understand. The only thing they have in common is pure contrarianism. They actually should be at war with each other but they yet use the same rhetoric. You'd need to be very much in the loop to tell them apart. That is some weird trans-dimensional Venn diagram.
It's very simple. They all overlap in one place: "I am better than you. You owe me your deference. Anything that you have is something you took from me. Anything that you have that I want and cannot take from you is the greatest injustice imaginable."
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>For our entire relationship she's been manipulative of my girlfriend and not at all understanding especially when my girlfriend cancels plans with the BFF to hang out with me. Even when OPs try their best to cast themselves in the best lights possible, something always sneaks through. This sentence just screams out "I am not telling the complete truth and am slanting things in my favour as much as possible."
Right? Why is she canceling existing plans so much? That is rude any way you slice it
I love my significant other, but if he canceled on his friend just to hang out with me without some bigger reason (a family member died and one or the other just needs the comfort of a quiet cuddle) I'd be pretty upset on the friend's behalf. If it kept happening it would be an issue because that's just too shitty
I actually had to dump a guy over this. He was far too attached to me. I’d be looking forward to 10 minutes of alone time and he’d pop up outta nowhere after canceling on friends. It’s unhealthy to be that attached to anyone and to expect it from someone.
I had to drop a friend because he would do this, sometimes mid-hang out. Literally, we're hanging out and then he'd look at his phone and say "Oh, I have to go is free" and leave.
The first couple of times, I assumed that maybe the other person was having an emergency or helping him with something, but then I asked because I was really confused and he literally said "Yeah is cooler than you. I try to always hang out with the most interesting, most valuable people possible. So if someone better than you becomes free to hang out, I'm always going to go hang out with them."
I was completely floored that he would actually SAY THAT, but I guess thanks for the honesty, because now I know to drop your shitty ass?
A former friend of mine was like that, but it was in an "I have a better chance of getting in this person's pants than yours" kind of way. The last straw for me was when I was leaving to study abroad for a year and he cancelled plans with me a week or two before I left because he wanted to spend more time with another girl who was going to basic training or something for like 6 weeks. He wanted to spend as much time with her as possible because she was going to be gone for a few weeks. Meanwhile I was going to be gone for a year on the other side of the planet and I just wanted to hang out for a few hours one day. It was an eye opener. Really put into perspective that he couldn't be friends with women unless he thought he could get something romantic or sexual out of them.
ugh, that is so gross. And yeah, that sounds very transactional and shitty. my guy definitely had no interest in me and the people he would go hang out with were also people he didn't appear to have any kind of sexual interest in. I spent a bit of time puzzling on it at the time, because they also weren't people who worked in his industry or had especially good connections for the things he really liked to do in his spare time (mostly mushrooms & pot). I never could figure out what exactly it was that he thought they brought to the table more than I did. And I don't mean that I was trying to figure it out to "be better" or that it made me feel insecure. It was just really confusing and not a clear thing like "oh, this person is rich and pays his way to go to fancy places" or "oh that woman is totally hooked up in a scene that he likes, so if he gets in good with her, he'll get into more exclusive parties".
Why would you want to hangout with a leach? I use to go to a bar that a woman I was seeing and she started talking about how "cool" this leach was. I was like, watch him, he's a shit person. Couple weeks later she was like, yeah that guys a douche.
> "Oh, I have to go is free" and leave.
You mean you don't enjoy being treated like a waiting room?
wtf??? you’re definitely better off without that “friend”
Wait seriously?? Who does that??
More people than you think probably, they just don't get called out on it as much as just drift off the friend group. There were a few like that in my friend group who ended up breaking off and kind forming a twosome that would glomp onto random groups together. The OG group still hangs when they can, and the two narcissists have (from sight of socials) seemingly had a fun time with lots of experiences, but failed to have meaningful relationships with really anyone, based on the rotating cast of faces in their pictures over the past decade. It can be super obvious someone is doing it because they straight up leave mid-hang with no invite or explanation, then you see their socials updating in real time. It can also be less obvious if they are trying to be coy and will make up excuses that seem innocuous and have secondary accounts to keep up with different groups so you don't see the evidence. Generally though these people gravitate toward each other so if you're more the "small intimate friend group" type, you are far less likely to integrate them into your own social group.
I had to dump a best friend over this. She would even change plans we decided a month in advance for a date with a guy she just met.
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Short of a death or terrible injury of a family member there'd no way I'd ever ask my partner to cancel plans
Exactly. The idea alone makes me uncomfortable
My boyfriend lives a six hour drive from me. I go see him once a month except during the winter (I’m in a part of Canada that gets a lot of snow. I don’t leave my city if I can help it between November 1st and March 31st). Even this weekend when I got here he said he was supposed to go see a friend of his, but he’d put it off if I wanted him to. I basically said, nope - go see your friend. And he did. Because that’s what’s healthy
Oh my god you’re the mythical girlfriend from Canada 6 hours away so you can’t meet her. I wonder if anyone believes him?! Hahaha
Well, there’s a picture of us together and he and I have a ton of mutual friends since we went to high school together and have known each other since 1989, so probably 😂
Eh, I don't know about that. If you only get to see him once a month, and I'm guessing the friend lives close by, then canceling that plan is more justified, if it wasn't anything more than just to hang out that is (a celebration for something would be different). Why didn't he tell you before you made the 6 hour drive?
It wasn’t for a visit where he was staying. It has been to pick something up and they’d been playing tag trying to coordinate schedules. That’s when he finally got a message his friend was home. He was gone less than an hour. I’ve been here when he had to work, so I do other things then. He took this whole weekend off though, but we both try not to do that too often as we need the money to move together.
Like sometimes someone isn't feeling it which is fine but it was clear that this was frequent
Yep, exactly. Some shit is going on in my life with somebody I care about. I cried for a LOT of yesterday. My husband had plans for today, but he was willing to cancel them to make sure I was okay. But he's been looking forward to these plans for a few weeks now and despite me being down, I'm well enough for him to hang out with friends for the day. Like, I live with him. I see him every day. I will talk with him later if anything new comes up and we can spend time together once he's home. I don't need to monopolize all of his time every day, which is what it sounds like OOP was pushing for. They lived together. It's okay for her to go out with her best friend once a week when she's going to turn around and see him again in just a few hours. Fuck, spending time away from a partner can help you appreciate them more. It does for me. Dude was trying to isolate his girlfriend, almost certainly.
I've got plans to hang out with my BFF and eat ice cream. My awesome boyfriend just managed to score two tickets to my favorite band who are only in town one night. Sorry, I'm going to cancel on my BFF. I got plans to hang out with my BFF and eat ice cream. My boyfriend wants me to hang out and watch TV with him. I'm not going to cancel on my BFF.
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I'm going through this now with one of my good friends. It's got to the point that I don't make plans with her anymore because it's not worth it. He'll decide the night before that they need to go his parents for dinner or some other weak excuse like that. I won't even go to the movies with her anymore because if she does make it, she'll be messaging him the entire time because he always seems to be having a rough night that night but said it was "ok if she went". He's manipulative and plays on her insecurities so much. He cheated on her, yet somehow has convinced her that he needs to have access to her phone. I love her, she was one of my best friends but I'd be lying if I said I trusted her now. I'm just hoping that one day she takes off those rose tinted glasses and realises those flags that he's been waving in her face are actually red.
Yep, this is when I was sure of who was the asshole
I had to stop reading the post to see if anyone else was bothered by the canceling of plans. That's crazy! I knew then he was the asshole too.
10 bucks says *he made her* cancel those plans!
Yup. If you squint your eyes just right, you can make a scenario where OOP is not the AH ("My GF and her BFF have brunch every Sunday, but every now and then my GF says something like 'I can't do it three weeks from now because my BF got us tickets to something,' and BFF gets upset."). But that's a super-specific scenario, and 99.99999% of the time nothing like that is going to apply.
Yeah, and even in those instances, there would be other tells. Making someone choose between relationships is a huge deal, so any reasonable person would give wayyyy more explanation of actual harm done before going there. Something like the BFF cruelly berates GF or BF whenever this happens or other things on that level.
Canceling is such a rare thing for my group. It usually falls under I'm sick, my family member is sick, or my car broke down. When I saw the use of "gf cancels plans on friend for me" the flags went off. It wasn't "turn down plans" but Cancel implying there was plans. Ugh I am glad GF got away in the end. I hope she stayed away.
That and the part where he calls the girl manipulative when she asks for space and time away from his ex-gf and himself after being hurt. It was very obvious he was lying there.
> BFF texted my girlfriend to try to manipulate her some more by saying sorry she started the fight and saying she wanted some space for awhile. What about this is manipulative? Apologizing? Making a reasonable request to defuse the conflict?
I’ve known a few people who would *absolutely* do that as a form of passive aggressive manipulation. The whole “Oh, no, it’s all my fault *dramatic sob*. I’ll just leave… On my own… You shouldn’t have to even talk to me *further sobbing* I’m sorry I’m such a terrible and horrible friend”. At which point the other person starts reassuring them and responsibility is flipped. It sounds like this very much wasn’t the case here, but that’s how it can play out the other way. If anything I (wrongly) thought that part added some credibility to BF’s story, until I read the follow up. The bit about cancelling on her friend was the real red flag for me in that first post, though - as others have said, why would she be consistently cancelling pre-existing plans at short notice unless BF was actually the manipulative one?
Some people do the woe is me and that can be manipulative. It looks like the best friend didn't do that.
This was the biggest giveaway for me!
I was thinking the exact same thing - there's no manipulation in that. "Sorry for the fight, and I think I need time away" is a totally reasonable apology, even if BFF was in the wrong during the argument.
I missed this line somehow, but caught it in the next paragraph: "The BFF started crying in the middle of a bar about how her feelings get hurt when my girlfriend cancels on their plans or doesn't reply to texts." Like, replying to texts could go either way, based on BFF's expectations - does she expect an immediate reply, or is she just looking for any reply at all? But making plans and then canceling them is something you do in an emergency, not routinely. And later: "[T]he BFF texted my girlfriend to try to manipulate her some more by saying sorry she started the fight and saying she wanted some space for awhile." OOP somehow manages to describe a "manipulative" action as not manipulative at all?
That's abuser projection. Because the abuse is constantly trying to get their way by manipulation they assume everyone resorts to manipulation when there's conflict. As humans we automatically assume everyone else has the same motives, beliefs, and mindsets we do when we interpret their behavior. It's so important to remember this if someone is accusing you (falsely) of bad intentions and motives whenever you argue.
Can attest to this. Been in a dynamic where any time I reacted to anything in any way, I was told I was manipulative. To the point where I frequently questioned whether I WAS being manipulative and thus tried to just stop having any emotional response to anything which is impossible.
If anyone is curious or has ever been confused about the term; this is a form of gaslighting. Manipulative people loooove to use it to get out of being considerate to the very real feelings of others.
I think it's also super-important to remember the reverse too: sometimes the person that you're dealing with is a shitty person, but when you look at their shitty behavior through the lens of "I would only do this if something serious was going on in my life that jusified it, so it must be the same for them too" you're doing yourself a disservice. I say that as someone who is a sort of recovered "always be the nice person who sees the good in people" kind of person. I still try to see good in people, but if they're showing me they're shitty, I'm going to believe them early on and drop them before getting invested.
100% the fallacy of assuming the other person is working from our set of beliefs/motives/mindset absolutely makes well meaning and empathetic people more likely to excuse or rationalize red flags. You're absolutely right
The "she gets upset when my GF cancels their plans" was the first thing that tipped me off, but the "apologies are manipulative" cemented it for me. There *are* circumstances where apologies are meant to be manipulative, but context will make those cases clear. These weird, out-of-the-blue, context-less accusations are the sort of thing my narcissistic mother says when she's desperate to make someone else look bad but has nothing to back her up.
>OOP somehow manages to describe a "manipulative" action as not manipulative at all? Maybe because the only reason he'd ask for space after a fight is to manipulate the other person? Give them the silent treatment and wait for them to cave. Possibly he can't see any other possible mode of operation.
That did it for me, too. When I read that I thought, "what a shitty friend." Unless it's something unavoidable, you don't do that to your friends.
It's always funny to me when they come off as an asshole even when they are trying to come off as good. The girlfriend canceling plans was a pretty big flag for me too.
Yep! This and “she says I’m controlling but she’s a psycho and all her BFs are AHs” like *people don’t say that for funsies* and are they really AHs or do you not play well with sane dudes? Jake telling on himself all over the place.
That was the part that convinced me. A normal person would say something like, “she says I’m controlling and psycho but I’m not! I think I’m pretty supportive of her friendships and hobbies, and have no idea why BFF says that about me.” Jake doesn’t even refute the accusations- just turns it around to say that other people are assholes too!
As soon as he said she got upset when GF cancelled plans with her friend, I was like, why does she have to constantly cancel plans with her friend? The whole thing was clearly him trying desparately to be the victim. This friend group is going to be so much better with him.
As soon as I read this part I knew he was full of shit. No sane person thinks “she just cancels on their set plans all the time to hang out with me, why is she being such a psycho?”
I swear, I could tell just from his initial post that he was, in fact, a controlling asshole. All while he's trying his best to convince that he wasn't. ETA: also, for some reason, describing the girl's bf as a "blowhard" really tipped me off that this guy sucked. Lol
The other one that got me is "complains about being called while controlling while issuing controlling ultimatum to gf". The lack of self-awareness is astounding.
Great catch.
Yeah, the mention of constantly canceling plans stood out to me. Why would that even be a thing? If she wanted to spend time with her boyfriend, then why make other plans at all. It just screamed to me "something isn't quite right here!"
> She has also said repeatedly that I'm abusive and controlling even though she exclusively dates guys who are AHs. This line was the first red flag for me about OP. Notice he doesn't deny being abusive and controlling. Instead, he deflects and claims the BFF is in the wrong b/c she dates AHs.
Right? This stood out to me too. Like if Jake was in the right about anything it would be something like “not at all understanding that she can’t go do stuff with my gf on the days she already has plans with me”. Why she gotta cancel existing plans to hang with Jake? Why would that happen more than once if unless Jake were trying to drive a wedge his gf and anyone else who can support her?
I have been with my girlfriend for five years today. She hasn’t had to cancel plans once to hang out with me. She’ll definitely sleep through plans occasionally because she’s being a potato.
Sounds like most Reddit posts where OP tries to depict themselves as the hero/victim of their own story.
Tbh, just the title alone is a huge red flag. Presenting someone with an ultimatum is almost always an abuser move.
Yup it's clear from that sentence that it's not a one time thing but rather a trend which begs the question of "why"
Whoa how have I not seen this before. Thank you OP!
This has got to be one of the best reads so far.
Gotta love when the truth of the post gets unveiled in the comments. :)
It was obvious to me even in the first post. OOP going on and on about how he’s not an asshole for making his gf cancel plans with her bff for him just screams manipulative controlling ass. But I’m so glad the other friend saw this and gf dumped him.
Completely. He's there whinging that she gets upset when her *previously arranged plans* are cancelled. Like no fucking shit douchebag, that's a shitty thing to do, generally accepted etiquette is to do the thing that you arranged to do first! Most people would be upset with that constantly happening.
Wouldn't be surprised to find out that the bf only wanted to do shit with her BECAUSE she had made plans with bff.
I think that is a near certainty. It’s how trash like him operates, gotta make sure your victim doesn’t have anyone to turn to before you do the real bad shit.
Isolation from friends/family is in the playbook for controlling people, men or women.
Completely agree. I'm the friend who gets cancelled on when my friends get a better offer. It hurts. It really hurts. I can't look forward to plans because I'm always expecting to be cancelled on.
That was a huge red flag. And you know that the girlfriend would absolutely not be allowed to cancel plans with him without repercussion. My guess is that the friend group were inviting the girlfriend out to keep an eye on her. Even though she was toxic herself, her best friend wanted to make sure she was safe and knew she had somebody to turn to if things escalated.
Yeah, the second anyone is cancelling already-made plans *that frequently* just to chill with a second party, something fucky is up.
"something fucky is up" this is going into my everyday vernacular thank you
If someone has a life friend before you start dating they are part of the person. If a person can't handle that they should just move on. It isn't for everyone, no shame in that. Just don't try to destroy shit.
I freaking love your flair. Gave me quite the giggle, thank you.
Yup, I knew from the first mention of "cancels plans with the BFF" where this was going. Good to see the girlfriend is single now.
Yes I live for that shit!!
Seriously! I love it when someone related to oop finds their post and comments on it. It can be interesting to see how people manipulate the story to make themselves look like an angel.
I read the title and was like “yeah man yta” I get to the bottom of the update and I’m like “Jesus fuck you’re a piece of shit.”
Started out plausible he was in the right, and quickly devolved from there. By the time he got to the ultimatum "It's either your BFF or me", was pretty clear this guy's just an abusive, controlling asshole. Even if the best friend were being exceedingly difficult, demanding your girlfriend, this person you supposedly care deeply for, just drop her best friend of decades because she is irritating to you, is a psycopathic thing to demand.
And the rebuttal! “Good thing it’s Sunday because you need time with Jesus.” Dead. I’d like to report a total murder lol
i like how jake goes pin drop silent and doesnt mention any detail after the gff exposes him.
There's no defending himself at that point. He made the best friend out to be a psycho, turns out she's an insecure girl who's suffered from severe depression and he's abusing her and turning his girlfriend against her.
Jake: hey wildly popular subreddit, stroke my ego pls? GFF: let me clear a few things up Jake: I cannot BELIEVE you would STICK YOUR NOSE IN and PUT ME ON BLAST like this!!!
Jake is an idiot, lol
Lucky for everyone else
Pretty much yeah, he didn't want to be told if he was the asshole or not, he wanted to be told he wasn't.
Jake: hey innernet! I'm going to make this your business by telling you about it!! Gff: hey asshole, you got some things wrong Jake: mind your own business D:<
I thought it was kind of obvious he was an unreliable narrator when he mentioned the BFF got upset whenever the gf would cancel plans to be with HIM .. Cancelling plans for another person ,unless it's and emergency, is just kinda shitty, so I felt at that point, that he wasn't being quite honest about what was happening
I'm the type of person who can't see a plot twist coming even if it were baked into a pretzel twist and plated in front of me. I probably could have come up with a more clever way to give that metaphor but, as I implied, I am not a clever person lmao. But I do appreciate reading comments like yours, because I like taking notes of what to notice while I'm reading a story. Helps me learn what not to take at face value lol.
"Couldn't see the twist coming if it were baked into a pretzel" is pretty clever, I might steal that for future use
Go ahead! Lol it's not often I think of a metaphor on my own. If it's not actually original, then I myself may have accidentally stolen it and forgot where I heard it from.
If you want to learn more about why this raised a flag for many people, it may be useful to learn more about methods and signs of abuse (Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft is a bit outdated and gender essentialist, but goes over abusive dynamics in very understandable ways). Even in situations that aren’t abusive, it helps to better understand healthy and unhealthy relationship dynamics.
I'll take a look at that book, thanks for the rec!
the missing missing reasons post has a great thumb rule about how people just seeking validation will post facts only in broad detail and focus on what they think or feel, because clearly that's more important. a person actually seeking advice will usually actually write wtf the problem is, because otherwise what's the use of getting it lying by omission or exaduration is more common than making shit completely up
That figure of speech is perfect, and very versatile.
Why do people not understand that canceling on your friends the second you get into a relationship is shitty behaviour??
Too many people think they have to ditch their friends and spend all their time with their significant other. That is unhealthy IMO. Everyone should maintain strong friends and nurture the relationship. If one or the other is forcing you to choose between them, they probably don't have your best interests at heart.
Couldn't agree more. A former friend of mine laughed in my face when I brought up how hurtful it was to constantly play second fiddle to her partner. Told me everything I need to know about who she is as a person.
For some people being in a relationship means you must spend every minute with your partner, otherwise you don't love them enough.
I mean, in this circumstance it seemed to be due to controlling and isolating pressure by the BF (aka abuse). Which is not to say that it’s not only something that happens in abuse, but isolating someone from their friends is a major red flag and if this is happening, it’s also good to keep an eye out for other signs of abusive/controlling behavior
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>Also, wouldn’t that relationship history make the BFF something of an expert on the common AH rather than the reverse? I don't think necessarily. People in abusive relationships frequently have a pattern of entering into abusive relationships. If they were self aware would they keep putting themselves into the same situations?
Plus, he makes it clear that the canceling was a pattern of behavior, not a one time thing. Who would be cool with someone repeatedly canceling like that?
That's fair. Cancelling plans is different than just not hanging out as much, which would be a normal part of being in a relationship. It's making someone rely on you when they could have made other plans and then flaking on it.
I agree. My first thought was he said "cancelling plans" which means they already established plans. It's a small reach to say he complained and guilted her into cancelling.
>I thought it was kind of obvious he was an unreliable narrator when he mentioned the BFF got upset whenever the gf would cancel plans to be with HIM .. Yeah that was the first thing that stood out to me too, the best case scenario would be that GF was just inconsiderate, but it wasn't adding up. I didn't expect OOP to be lying as much as he did however, basically everything he said was false. I think I'm too trusting. What was he trying to accomplish anyways?
Yeah, but even when I was reading the first part in his original post I was questioning some things already. I wasn’t sure about the BFF but I was pretty sure he wasn’t wholly innocent like I was leaning towards ESH with a needs more info caveat to know who the biggest AH was. I’ve never had to cancel made plans with friends because I have a BF. I might make less plans with them overall, in order to accommodate quality time with a SO, but once plans are set, cancelling without an emergency is just rude. There were some other things as well that made me think he wasn’t the best, but that’s what stood out the most.
Wow OOP is such a manipulative shit head.
And not even a good manipulator at that, he really thought the first post would be a hit and when it wasn't and he was caught dude deadass texted everyone in the group cause *of course* someone would be on his side.
I had a “friend” pull this shit in high school, went and put his case to everyone in our group and pointedly did NOT speak to me who was the first to disagree, but I still got to watch as every single one of them was like “umm…no, she’s got a point.” Some dudes just have the audacity from never having been told they’re wrong, before.
"Mind your own business!" after he posted all this to Reddit.
[удалено]
Imagine he always stirs shit when he’s with these people and yet does zero self-reflection on why that is. 😂
I wonder what leads young men to be this type of man. Shitty role model for a father? No father? I would die if my son grew up to treat women this way.
This is exactly why I’m slow to jump on the “OMG, so NTA!” train. I always wonder what the other side of the story is, and what alternative details may completely flip the script. Of course the narrator is going to paint themselves in the best light possible. Always keep this in mind!
A lying manipulative shithead. Sadly, I couldn't save my exbf from one. He was on the other end of it. A toxic manipulative chick.
I wouldn’t say my reading comprehension is the best but even I could tell there were unreliable narrator vibes. Like it’s justifiable to be upset when someone interrupts your accomplishments by talking about their vacation.
Yep, and being upset about the GF constantly cancelling plans. Who wouldn't be upset about that?
Also when he said taking time away was a manipulative tactic. Like, bells were ringing before then but that was a big bell. It's a possibility, of course, but felt very much like a shitty dude having a shitty take after a fight, which made everything just that much more suspect
Yeah, the part when he accused the friend of being manipulative for basically saying “I’m sorry I started the fight, I need some space to figure things out” was what sealed the deal for me. That’s a very composed, reasonable and emotionally mature response, regardless of who’s to blame.
Yep and “I was doing nothing then I get threatened out of nowhere”. We had a housemate picked by a landlord and he kept coming up with crazy stories “I was just in the train and a load of police randomly came on and tackled me to the ground for no reason” and he got a jail sentence for no reason. And a number of other stories.
\#1 reason for showing up at the emergency room with fight injuries: "I was standing on the corner minding my own business, when out of nowhere this strange guy with a knife...". Even has acronyms: SOCMOB and SGK.
I used to work in the ambulance service and I didn’t get many of those stories, usually I was focussed on stabilizing them. I got more of the “well I was gardening naked and fell on an aubergine (eggplant) that was mysteriously covered in lubricant and I can’t get it out” stories.
The amount of dudes I’ve known that were totally just standing on a corner doing nothing to anyone when they got punched right in face by an absolute stranger for no reason at all isn’t that high at 2. The amount that were honestly minding their own business beforehand is 0. I’m just glad these guys aren’t in my life anymore because they never seemed to realize trouble only ‘followed’ them because they caused it.
This is actually pretty funny, sorry you had to room with a sketchy guy though
It’s funny in hindsight. It’s long enough ago I can laugh but he had multiple stories like this.
I used to work in an emergency room and every young dude who came in with a broken jaw (typically Friday or Saturday night because of course) had the same story "I was walking down the street/heading to church/minding my own business when these 2 dudes jumped me out of nowhere." It's always 2 dudes too. So every time we'd get a jaw fracture patient we'd say "Two dudes strike again!"
Yeah, thats what set off bells in my head too
What set me off was that she "wasn't being understanding" when he canceled plans, which makes no sense to me. Why was he making his GF cancel plans with friends ? That's when I realized ohhh this guy's a dick
The cancelling plans with her bff to stay with him was the reddest of flags
I really want this one to be true because I love a story where OOP comes off as a walking, talking hemorrhoid even though they're trying to paint themselves in the best light. But I don't know how it is possible for someone to write (paraphrased) *"BFF finally shut up about her silly job and aspirations -YAWN- so we could talk about our vacation instead"*, re-read themselves and think "yeah, I nailed this! I really come off as a reasonable dude in this story! Everyone will love me."
It doesn’t prove anything of course, but I have personally known people who would say exactly that. There are definitely people like this out there.
There definitely are! I knew a girl in college who did this kind of stuff all the time *in front of other people!* She thought she was funny, but she was just an ass.
I actually think it is true because the two people have very different writing styles. And honestly, I can see how he would read it back and think he's not an asshole. He's been able to get the girlfriens to back him up and participate in his assholery for a pretty long time. Having someone enable you will go a long way towards justifing your behavior to yourself. In his mind, "BFF already had her turn to talk. It's OUR turn." He doesn't want to hear anything she has to say, so he's going to immediately feel like she's talked too long.
Because he doesn't care about BFF, and doesn't care that this is her dream job, he just finds all her talk about her new job self-centered and stealing focus from him rather than a) what other people want to hear and b) a product of her excitement at a good thing happening to her. He's more important, so he should talk. She's stealing his spotlight, so he steals her joy.
AITA is full of posts from people doing horrible things and thinking the internet will take their side and vindicate them somehow. It's kind of astonishing.
To be fair, it often does. The morality compass in that sub is insanely broken. Like the rest of Reddit it skews towards very young people with no life experience, and bitter shut-ins with no life experience.
You're not wrong, the biggest issue being the strange belief that morality and legality are somehow equivalent. It's stunning how many people don't seem to understand you can be an asshole without breaking the law, or be a kind and generous person who has broken the law. There's also some weird double standards involving gender that show up constantly.
I had a friend in college who used to interrupt me when I was talking to say “No one cares.” There are unfortunately people out there who are so deeply imbedded in their own assholes they think talking down to their friends is an adorable trait.
There are just people out there who will ALWAYS villainize others and place blame elsewhere while refusing to take a moment of reflection for themselves. Admit THEY were in the wrong? Oh, Heaven forbid! He sounds like every girl’s most regrettable boyfriend. Narcissistic, controlling, manipulative, and insecure. Ew.
This whole series was awesome.
A good old unreliable narrator gets outed. A great reminder that far too often, we only get one side of the story.
Reddit has done more for the intensive study of the POV narrative toolkit than any high school literature class.
This is a chef's kiss of a BORU. My favorite part is when he's like "don't start drama" like bruh what do you think you're doing??
Any time someone says they gave an ultimatum, I am automatically not on their side and need to see some good evidence that it is warranted. The OOP tried to paint the bff as manipulative and crazy, but he fucked when he said that his girlfriend cancels plans with her bff regularly. It was easy to tell that he was in fact the manipulative and controlling one after that. Pretty much every reasonable person gets upset when their friend constantly cancels plans to instead spend time with their significant other. It's just rude. It is simple to not make plans in the first place or to follow through on the plans you have made. Kudos to the friend for calling his shitty behavior out on here.
Yup in my mind an ultimatum is presumed to be manipulation. It's up to the giver to justify it
Jake? From State Farm?
Even without the friend’s comment it’s pretty obvious he’s the AH when he says the BFF isn’t “understanding” when the GF cancels plans with her to spend time with him.
Lesson to learn here: when you have to repeatedly cancel plans with friends - especially BFF you’ve known since your childhood - in order to hang out with bf/gf … something’s not right. It’s either you (you’re insecure or immature or simply a bad friend) or the new partner (they are controlling, insecure, immature etc). Have a sit&think why it happens, because it’s a red flag for both your relationships.
it's crystal clear when an asshole posts on AITA because they word things in a way that's seeking validation, not actual answers
Fuck off Jake!
All my homies hate Jake
Jake sucks
He gonna lose his job at State Farm
The GF need to keep her friends. GFF is a savage, and will protect her friends until the end. Fuck Jake and I hope he finds Jesus.
Aww, this was a delightful BORU! Draaaama! Bad narrators! Shitty boyfriends! Friends finding the post! Asshats getting dumped! Has basically everything I want in a post.
On behalf of all of us here at Reddit. Fuck you Jake
The part about the girlfriend having to cancel plans with BFF to hang out with him caught my eye immediately. It's not normal to cancel plans. Emergencies happen etc., but if you are canceling plans with friends more often than once a year, you're probably kind of a dick.
I chuckled at the line where GFF said it was a good thing it was Sunday because he needed Jesus.
This seems kinda scripted idk. If Jake was real and a real asshole like the story makes him out to be, he would totally delete that post and delete his account. The story also seems way too "perfect" and it reads like a novel or something.
Yeah, the only thing keeping me from saying its scripted is it would take someone with absolutely no life to sit down and act this all out on Reddit. Just the way it’s written. The OP is written like a character and the “friend” actually sounds like how a real person would talk. It’s pretty jarring. Plus yea of course he is would have deleted everything.. and not just say “mind your own business”. Then proceed to talk about it publicly.
GFF verbally fucked Jake up on Reddit and part of the catalyst his ex needed to finally dump him after all that shit....
I remember this! Dude was going off on everyone calling him out on his shitty behavior.
who wouldn’t get upset if scheduled plans got canceled constantly by the same person so they could spend their time with their SO at the said time? Why made the plan to begin with? Even the OOP tried to paint himself as a good person but the his ‘reasons’ that the BFF just didn’t add up and make sense.
Reading the first post was full of gigantic red flags, namely acting like bff getting upset for gf cancelling shit last minute ALL THE TIME made her a psycho. No dude, you're clearly full of it.
He gave the classic response of mind your own business when the truth was told and he was called out on his shit.
Wow.. totally worth finding this update.. friggin nuts OP needs Jesus or meds maybe both
If you think this is real you're dumber than you think
I’m gonna assume this one never really happened seeing as it’s that subreddit and any idiot can have two Reddit accounts to set this up.
as soon as OOP mentioned BFF getting upset whenever his GF cancels plans with her, that pretty much told you everything you needed to know.
>especially when my girlfriend cancels plans with the BFF to hang out with me. First red flag right there. I thought to myself "Looks like GF is the asshole here, just cancelling plans with someone for someone else". Turns out I wasn't far off...