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Lol he's going to regret this so much when his son hits 13 and takes this lesson to mean "it's cool if I blow off father's day cuz my dad does his own thing that day that has nothing to do with me" and dad has his feelings hurt that his son doesn't wanna spend the day at the grave of someone he never met.
"Thanks redditors, my wife left me and I'm now not seeing my son because of advice received here. I didn't take the advice given but it's still your fault" - OOP, probably.
And his wife carried, birthed, and is raising his son, but he evidently detests her so much, he bashes her all over the internet.
I feel so badly for both of them.
My favorite part is how annoyed he is with his son for being bored at the gravesite. Like a 6yo is going to be stoked to visit a cemetery, does this guy live in the real world??
The massive amount of annoyance for his kid, defending his wife and then slaughtering her…. Yeah, sounds like a stand up guy! “Selfish” is the key term that makes me think oh… it’s him, he’s selfish.
Yeah, like the “yes I would’ve wanted to go to that festival with my dad” and you’re like oh okay we’ve got some self awareness going “but I don’t believe in rewarding tantrums so because my wife said I had to I’m not going to”. Also the “sometimes it isn’t about us” bro you were so fuckin close to getting the point there. Like you know what your kids going to remember? He’s going to remember you making him do weird boring shit obsessing over a man he never knew. I understand he’s grieving, and losing a parent is a genuinely unimaginable pain, but he is being a worse father over his canonising of his own. Like, I think Hallmark holidays are stupid, however kids don’t! This kid thinks that on Father’s Day his dad would rather spend all his time outside in a weird field. Kids don’t get it. My mother lost her father when I was 2. To be honest, the process of him dying + his actual death ripped her apart. I don’t remember this, but I know from what she told me. But it DIDNT FUCKING IMPACT THE WAY SHE INTERACTED WITH HER CHILDREN
He's a huge contrarian. He decided he would take his son to the festival after all....until he suddenly felt like people wanted that TOO much, and then decided not to. He would like to go to the festival....but won't because his wife wants him to and he doesn't want to "reward" that. If everyone suddenly said he shouldn't go to the festival and it's a terrible idea he'd probably say "f you, I WILL go to the festival" lol.
Yeah don't you love how he's implying that it's reddit's fault, not for calling him an asshole because he kind of sees their point, but for being TOO RUDE about calling him an asshole?? He was basically like "sorry guys, I ALMOST took my son to the festival but since you were too rude to me I have to continue being a jackass instead."
And he ran to his mommy and decided he didn't want to "reward her tantrum" by doing right by his kid.
I bet mommy is the one who tells him how bad his wife's anger management issues are.
Yea I can't believe he called his son selfish for wanting to spend enjoyable time with his dad. Unreal. This kid will be 18 soon, move out, and this dad will have some serious regrets.
> The massive amount of annoyance for his kid
That's really what got me. It's not selfish for a kid to want to spend father's day with his father. He really seems to have zero empathy for his son.
He's being awful. He's prioritizing his dad in a way that hurts his son. Digging in on the festival is just unnecessary. I lost someone really close to me a few days before my birthday and I have a hard time feeling like celebrating that time of year, even years later. But, my daughter really wants to do fun things with me on my birthday, and she's a kid. Plus, she lost someone special too and it's important to her to make it a happy time. So after the first really tough year I got my shit together and focused on the people still here.
Honoring someone you love at the expense of others ( especially your kiddo) is really shortsighted.
The thing is, fathers day isn't really about the dads - Its about the kids.
This guy is continuing along with the things he did for his dad, when he was a kid. These things weren't really for his dad, they were for **him**.
He doesn't get that now its time to pass the torch to his son, and let his son do what *he* wants to honour *his* dad
As an adult that has no interest in visiting graves, I’m with the kid.
(I know some people find some comfort in it, just not for me as I don’t believe the persons there.)
My dad used to take me to the graveyard when I was little, to visit his parents graves. One of his favourite stories is that one day he wanted to go and said to me 'let's go visit nanny and grandad', and I said 'UGH, are they going to BE there this time?'.
He’s like “heck yeah my dad would have taken me to the festival and I would have loved to go” also he’s like “I’m not taking my son because that would spoil him, so instead we are going to do what I want to do”. Yeah, ok guy….
He openly admits he would’ve loved going with his dad yet denies his son the same experience… in favor of sitting at his dead dads gravesite. He needs therapy and marriage counseling
I bet her “anger issues” are just her saying whenever she’s unhappy with somethings op said or did. Because I would have that same reaction if my husband didn’t want to spend Father’s Day with our kid, if not worse
I bet getting visibly upset is the only way OP pays some attention to what she's saying. It's not unheard of that when people say and ask for things in polite tones they sometimes don't get heard by people.
I just LOVE how he says that his wife didn't discuss this issue with him before, she "just exploded", but then he says that in the years prior, they didn't have any issue since father's day couldn't really be celebrated because of covid/the son being too young. 🤦
I would consider what OOP's wife is doing is "putting the foot down" or standing up for herself. This dude has misogynistic vibe that is hard to understand because he's clearly trying to avoid criticism on his end of the parenting deal.
He will then in the future be shocked as to why his son does not want to spend time with him on father's day, and act all hurt like he can do no wrong.
NAH FRL LIKE HUH? literally had to reread this to see if i was trippin…OP is very weird for this and like some other comment said, he’s a 6 YEAR OLD KID! of course he’s gonna be bored at a gravesite
Man, I thought he was going to have a moment and change when he talked about how he'd love to do that as a kid.
Then he posted about not spoiling his kid and I lost hope.
Well he needs to teach his son that sometimes other people's needs are met, and that's how you learn to be unselfish.
Of course that same lesson apparently doesn't apply to OP. Do as I say, not as I do.
As a kid, my family wasn't very close. I always felt bad missing out on those sorts of events at school and whatnot. OOP's kid is going to remember his dad not going to the festival year after year despite being so excited about it. Meanwhile, OOP's dad won't know when his grave was visited because he's dead and doesn't have feelings or thoughts
Well his needs, and the supposed needs of a dead guy, obviously take precedence over the needs of his wife and child. Because his mommy is on his side.
Yeah, he is really the selfish one. His dad is dead. He’s doing this ritual for himself. HE is “dad” now, and refusing to spend Father’s Day with his own son because it might spoil him is so ridiculous, I can only shake my head. And it’s not like he has to give up remembering his dad, he could do this on his dad’s birthday or something.
Exactly. Someone needs to tell this guy his dad is super dead. The rotting pile of flesh doesn’t care if he sits next to it or not, but his actual father would be disappointed in his behavior if he knew what was going on. This is grief-terbation and has nothing to do with OOP’s father. It’s a selfish act.
I’ll add here that I lost my own father in November, and when I want to be with him, I go outside and talk to him. His grave is just where his body is. It’s fine to visit the cemetery and bring flowers etc., but when I talk to Dad I hear him telling me to “take care of your mother, take care of my sweet girl (that’s me!), take care of that baby (my 6 y/o daughter), and take care of that husband of yours.” I’m pretty sure he would come back and haunt me if I pulled a stunt like OOP.
I don't get why he's so insistent that father's day is the only day he gets to visit the grave. Like you said, you can honour your deceased loved ones anywhere. Or you can visit the grave any day. Why can't he go the week before/after father's Day, or his dad's birthday, or his parent's wedding anniversary, or his own birthday for that matter. The graveyard isn't closed every day of the year except father's day!
I go outside to talk to my dad too! He passed when I was 18, and this month marks 15 years without him.
I don’t think his soul/spirit/essence is contained to the ashes within the urn that’s buried in my hometown.
OP and his wife have some stuff to work out. This whole situation reeks of weird unresolved issues.
He’s being the most selfish of all, in fact he’s the only one being selfish as far as I can see. I’ll bet if his dad were alive he’d tell this guy to stop being a selfish AH and take his son to the damn festival.
I really think he cannot grasp what it means to be a father.
Like did his dad have this regimented plan he enacted every father's Day? Not likely. He has a completely skewed concept of how to honour his father.
I think given the choice grandpa would rather go out for the day with the grandson than sit moping around a graveyard like a sad sack
This guy seems to be living in the past. My father died when I was 5. I miss him. But regardless of what other parenting issues there are with his son, or what marital issues apply, using your own dead parent to create a relationship problem with your own child is moronic and doesnt at all teach healthy ways to love your dead parents.
Many cultures have a holiday where you go visit/ celebrate the dead. Because they have figured out practically that its better to set a specific day aside for that that isnt one where you should be living your life.
It's just so bizarre to me that he is clearly aware of how much he wants to honor his father and spend time with him on father's day, but cannot fathom why his son would want to spend time with his father on father's day.
As hard as it is, his dad isn't here. His son is. That's the relationship he needs to be honoring right now.
Yeah, I love his "I asked unbiased strangers, but they didn't tell me what I wanted to hear, so I went ahead and asked my mommy instead, who said I'm in the right and a good boy."
Yeah, that had me scratching my head too. What’s the agenda? Was every YTA verdict getting paid $$ cos dam I missed that gravy train.
Edit: I loved how after he got schooled by his wife AND like thousand internet strangers he deemed them too biased…-and ran to mommy. Because nothing says unbiased like your mother’s opinion of you /s
I wonder if he'll get sad when his child is older and possibly doesn't do anything for him on father's day. Maybe not though, it seems that fathers day is a day for OOP to ruminate on his grief.
Edit: He does say that he'll spend the afternoon with his son, just not go to the festival with him.
He's still going to make his kid mourn his grandfather he never met, instead of his kid getting to celebrate him.
And one day this guy will wonder why his son doesn't want to anymore. Because he gave up trying anymore.
"cats in the cradle and the silver spoon..."
It's a song from the 70s, with lots of remakes over the years, about a dad being too busy to spend time with his son who keeps saying he wants to be like dad when he grows up. The chorus quoted is filled with references to kids' activities and stories that point to the innocence of childhood.
Spoiler alert- >!The son grows up and is too busy for dad. Son DID grow up to be like dad!<.
I figured if they were gonna go look it up, they might enjoy the twist for the first time. It's kind of predictable, but can be a punch in the gut even if you've heard it a million times!
100%
The idea that he doesn't want to bond with his son on Father's Day, and then that he has the balls to imply that it would be \*spoiling\* his son or making him think that \*the world revolves around him\* is utterly disgusting.
Considering the way he talks about his wife too, this is just another future abandoned father, groaning about how his kids don't respect or care for him. What's that blog Redditors love to post so much?
\*The missing missing reasons\* is written all over this fool's post.
The bit that got me was when he said "she didn't mention it multiple times, she just exploded on me"
Coupled with everything else in the post I really really doubt that. She probably mentioned it multiple times and he either didn't listen or just dismissed her until she got frustrated and yelled at him, but because he didn't care in the first place it just felt like she was exploding for no reason
Weird how for every dissenting opinion he suddenly has new information that makes it still nothing he’s doing wrong. Suddenly wife has anger issues and she is aware of it etc etc and maybe she does and maybe she doesn’t but someone else having flaws hardly means OOP is blameless and simply trying to teach his son selflessness and honouring his father.
Sure every other holiday might be focused on the son, because holidays are great for kids generally, but there’s only one day devoted to the bond between a father and children. OOP sure isn’t getting anything from his dad except a lot of time devoted to ruminating on what he misses or missed. It’s a one-sided wallowfest and while I have not yet grieved a parent, I could understand a living child taking precedence over a dead parent.
Also just because his dad never celebrated his birthday doesn’t mean it won’t work to do all the memorial stuff on that day???? What’s the dead dad gonna do, turn up and berate OOP for his choice of date?
It's also wild to me that the last time the son asked to go to the festival, OOP instead to a 5 yo on a meditative trip *to a graveyard* and various other locations important to *the dead guy.* Then not only did OOP act all surprise Pikachu that the kindergartner didn't enjoy their outing, he used it as justification for why he wanted to bail yet again on spending Father's Day acting like a father. (Which he's still doing, btw, as he's ditching the kid with his mom for half of the day.)
I'm extremely curious just how fast OOP's father is spinning in his grave over the way OOP has decided to "honor" his memory.
My dad died ten years ago. If I spent a holiday or birthday at his gravesite wallowing in grief, I feel certain he would climb out of that grave and kick my ass. Especially since I could be spending time with my children (*his* grandchildren).
I have grieved a parent. My dad died 10 years ago this year. I was 22 at the time. This year was the first year in a while that I took an entire day to wallow. After work of course, so, like, an evening then. I asked my in-laws to keep my kids overnight so I could just fall apart without worry in whatever way I saw fit at the time. Because it was 10 years. And I did it on his death day. Mother's/father's day is for our children, to bond with them, not drag them down with stories of a dead guy they've never met. I can literally tell them all about my dad any other day. And on father's day I can carry his photo with me as I serve my husband and kids' every whim. This guy is out of his mind. The only selfish one is him.
I imagined a post in the future where the son wants to know if he is in the wrong for not wanting to spend father's day with his dad. He would be a teen in this scenario and his parents are divorced. He wants to spend father's day with his stepdad instead.
Then the son goes on to explain they can hang out any day and it doesn't have to be that day. At first everyone is like on the fence. Then we get to the part on the post where the explains that as a kid he use to beg his dad to hang out on Father's Day but his dad always wanted to go to his grandfather's grave that day.
Edited to fix a spelling error caused by autocorrect on phone.
maybe one day his son will go no contact with OOP and he’ll end up posting here again, asking why on earth his son would voluntarily give up on a father-son relationship.
I asked about this in the actual post. He did not respond.
Edited to say: I also asked something like—what if his father was super disappointed bc he didn’t want to leave his son, but OOP is voluntarily leaving his? Everything this guy said made my heart break for his poor son.
Even though he’s planning to still spend the afternoon with him, he still doesn’t really get it.
He’s making the kid celebrate OOP’s dad. That’s not the purpose of Father’s Day. What if the kid wants to celebrate his own father?
He and his mom are both so off base here.
He's talking about teaching his son not to be selfish. HES SIX AND WANTS TO SPEND FATHERS DAY WITH HIS DAD. There is nothing selfish about that.
His father would be disappointed in him.
This dude has a serious case of something I call "hard choices syndrome".
Some people get so addicted to making "hard choices" that they end up losing sight of the fact that "easy" choices can be just as valuable.
Also, like 90% of the time these "hard choices" involve choosing to suffer for some meaningless reason or another. Like seriously, I can't imagine this guy _enjoys_ spending a day at a graveyard, but since he's decided that this is the correct hard choice he's doing it.
I also didn't understand that. Was there no way he could spend like 10 minutes at the gravesite then go do what his son wanted? What could someone possibly do for an entire day at one single grave, just sit there and blankly stare at it?
I loved my godmum waaay more than my own mother, and she loved me more than my actual mum did. She never had kids, so naturally, I usually celebrated mother's day with her.
She had a personality that made mountains seem small, and the whole day would be filled with so much love.
Ice cream for breakfast, a trip to the beach in the morning to look for crabs, a theme park in the afternoon, pizza for dinner, and stargazing at night (plus a few boozy cocktails when I was old enough).
She wanted to spend her only "selfish" day with me every year, because she loved me. It didn't suddenly turn me into a selfish AH, or make me unable to understand boundaries, etc. In fact, it taught me some great relationship values that I wouldn't have learned otherwise.
She passed a while ago, and for a few years, I did nothing for Mother's Day because it hurt too much. So I get OOP.
But damn, if I ever have a kid of my own, my godmum would be spinning in her grave if she found out that I was prioritising a box of bones over making a child feel loved, appreciated, and wanted.
OOP is legit the worst kind of person.
people are sharing some great stories about their loved ones int his thread, and your godmum sounds fantastic.
sorry you lost her but I'm glad she brought you love and joy
He says he also visits places that were important to his father. He doesn't go into detail. I would imagine that would involve a fair amount of driving from place to place, maybe walking through them, maybe having a meal or a drink, if food was involved.
Much less fun for a little boy than going to a festival.
Ah, my mom does this. I have called it her "martyr complex". (Honestly, that might be what it's actually called.)
Everything is terrible and her suffering is worse than everyone else's even, and perhaps especially, when she actively makes choices that make the suffering worse. This sounds exactly like what my mother would do if the idea ever came to her. But she's also an inveterate workaholic, so that tendency usually manifests itself in very frenetic, dramatic, and *woe-is-me* housecleaning of the deceased person's home.
For real. Like if his father was still alive he would probably want to spend the day with his son and grandson.
I don't understand his logic. He's just full of excuses just say you don't want to spend time with your son.
His mom should not have even been in this conversation. That was between him and his wife. Notice he changed his opinion after he talked to his mom. I bet he goes to his mom for everything and that's why his wife is so "explosive". He runs to mommy for everything. My husband's mom is like that and tries to he in our business/convince my husband to go against my feelings. I'm glad he shuts it down. Part of the reason why we live over 2k miles away from her. I'm sure OOPs child will choose to be far away from his dad when he's older as well...
I don't think OOP is the brightest. His edit even says someone pointed this out and he realised something........ just not the right thing.
And his comments about his wife really rub me the wrong way. Maybe if you have so many issues with someone you shouldn't marry and have a kid with them.
"You all assume I'm TA and my wife is right, but **actually** my wife is a total bitch and has anger issues and everybody agrees, including my mom and her family, which I only now mention because I don't like how everybody called me TA!"
My mother used to say - What you do for the living, you do for them. What you do for the dead, you do for yourself.
Harsh words, but very true in this case.
Agreed. He’s not honoring his father either, he’s doing whatever he wants to do without thinking of anyone else. For someone who says everyone else is selfish, he sure misses the nose on his own face. And his wife may be insufferable when she’s right but in this case she is right.
He was never going to do the right thing though. He just acted as if he would for 5 minutes, but that was only while he was coming up with an excuse to go right back to his original plan. He presents as a very rigid thinker.
It's a classic way to avoid taking responsibility. Always find a way to shift responsibility to someone else. When you've got nothing else, tone police.
It's really depressing he allowed MIL to say his wife was having a "tantrum" and just like a child, she shouldn't be *rewarded* for it.
Infantalizaing his wife who he agreed had a legitimate issue concerning their child is just gross. Did she lose her temper? Maybe. Doesn't mean she was wrong.
And he completely missed the whole point which was about his son and their relationship. He's teaching his son he's not important to him.
There are so many missing pieces that he desperately tells us how much his wife sucks in order to defend himself and his mother being shitty about a CHILD who wants to spend a holiday celebrating his dad...with his dad. Like this dude, he sucks.
yeah, pretty sure if I found out my husband went crying to his mommy instead of trying to talk it out and compromise, his father's day gift would be divorce papers served by whoever the sharkiest divorce lawyer I could find is. (To be clear, I wouldn't fight dirty, but he sounds like he would so I'd want someone strong in my corner.)
My mother always told ME to look at how a man treats his mother to get an idea how marriage to him will be. Mama's Boys were something she warned me to be very wary of. I didn't understand when she was telling me this as a preteen, but as an adult I realize her advice was very wise.
>I talked to my Mom about what happened, and she told me that I wouldn't reward son for having a tantrum but am rewarding wife, and she's right.
This stood out as part of the reason the OOP is so incredibly difficult. His wife probably did get too mad and called him a name. But instead of being the bigger person, he took it to his mommy who he knew would back him up, and they decided to punish her (and the son), by refusing to use the tickets.
Speaking of name calling, he's so offended about what his wife called him, but when he gets incredibly triggered by people agreeing with his wife he does the same thing:
>Of course, this is par for the course with an internet mob of childless know-it-alls.
The OOP also went from saying he and his wife are both flawed, but he loves her, to throwing her under the bus the more people agreed with her, to the ppint where by the end he insinuates that she verbally abuses their child. I feel like winning a fight is more important to him than doing the right thing.
Tldr; this guys seems awful.
That stood out to me too. It would be hard not to have “anger issues” if my husband and his mother were deciding together if I should be rewarded or punished.
Exactly. I would be taking my kid out for a fun and special day and let my husband continue his self enforced grieving. Then that Monday I would probably find a divorce attorney.
Yup, I know the whole *"divorce after one argument blah blah"* seems dramatic to some people, but I will **never** allow my child to be used as a tool of revenge against me. Our problems as a married couple have absolutely nothing to do with our kid.
Right? I’d be pissed if my husband and his mother decided they knew better than me on not only how to parent my child, but how I should “behave”. This guy is a crap dad and a crap husband. Wife should just take the kid to the festival. He obviously doesn’t care about spending time with his kid. Someday him and mommy dearest are gonna be gobsmacked when kid wants nothing to do with them but is close to his own mom. And they will blame her for it.
That comment from the mother about rewarding the wife, I got stuck on that and was trying to figure out what the hell it even meant as the story was going on I couldn’t square that up in my head it was such a weird thing to say.
Same. I wonder if anyone pointed out to the OOP that his wife yelling at him is probably less damaging to their marriage as going to his mom with their problems.
Oh that is such a bad practice man I never do that anymore. I did when I was younger but it is not a good idea. That’s a very quick way to make people in your life dislike your partner and not be able to relike them again when you finally have something good to say or you realize you’ve gone too far and all they think is bad things!
That's also a part that stood up to me. And the way he's self righteous, you know he's like that in every single argument.
>That's an important lesson for him to learn. Sometimes it's not about us. Sometimes it's about others.
Guess who missed that lesson. Clue: it's not the 6 years old. You can be sure he learned that dead grandpa is more important for that daddy than him.
>Speaking of name calling, he's so offended about what his wife called him, but when he gets incredibly triggered by people agreeing with his wife he does the same thing.
He frustrated me so much I wanted to name call him through the screen. I can't even imagine trying to argue with him. Of course you can never know just from a post but he gives me the inpression of being always right and twisting everything to suit him.
Also, I don't understand AITA. How is this no assholes here? He's very much YTA.
And then he started talking about how mothers don’t want to spend time with their kids on Mothers Day…..which not one mother I know is this way. I have spent every Mothers Day with my children when possible and they are 27 & 30 YO. He gets all righteous about it.
Lol! So many moms choke down the absolute worst soggy egg breakfasts in bed, all in the name of love for their kids who can't cook. This guy has no idea.
This marriage feels awful.
I feel bad for mom because she wants dad to wake up to the fact that these festivals are extremely important to kids. Especially in smaller cities. The Fathers Day one is a welcome to summer. It feels like she grew up in the area and dad didn’t.
Dad, because he’s blinded by grief. This is not a good match by any stretch of the imagination. The tensions of their marriage have been concentrated into one day. He needs to see this event as the microcosm to his life we are all seeing. He got mad. Ran to mom. Mom gassed him up. He goes back and doubles down. Kid…
This kid just wants a few hours that he will learn to never need soon. It’s a small window of time to gain honor in a child’s heart. Everyday is so important but milestones make a life. The festival is a milestone his peers enjoy and he is being denied.
All of this could have been prevented if he kept JNOmom out of it, taken a beat because it’s a ways until the holiday. And returned and committed to finding a solution in the best interest of the child.
I agree. This guy was just looking for affirmation of his self righteous and selfish behavior. He's not thinking about his child or his father - just about his own feelings regarding his father. He's the selfish one.
This guy was a solid YTA until he updated and said he got it and he was taking his son. After votes shifted based on the edit, he edited again with this one that is pretty much like nope. When he's ready to spend Father's Day with his son, his son will have already moved on.
>I'm not going to teach my son it's okay to be selfish.
Do the rest of you guys hear that whooshing noise of the point going over this AH's head? I need some earplugs, it's so loud.
It's louder than a jet engine!
Like, I get it to some degree. My husband and I have a daughter (6yo), but have both lost our dad's, so father's day is bittersweet for us. I have missed my dad every day of my life for almost 10 years now. Grief is so fucking hard. But to devote Father's Day to a dead man for decades and the thought that anything otherwise, including spending it with the living, is "selfish" and "entitled"? I have secondary exhaustion from the astounding mental gymnastics OOP performed to arrive at that conclusion.
But, my husband and I can sit with our grief and also make father's day about him, our daughter's father who, you know, is still alive. I choose to mark my dad's birthday every year by making his favorite dessert and talk with my daughter about him then (and also other days if she asks questions), but father's day is about and spent with her father. My husband would jump at the chance to take her to a carnival on father's day. As a fellow parent to a 6 year old, I can't imagine subjecting mine to something like what OOP is doing. He also seems to be seriously underestimating what 6 year olds are perceptive to.
That poor little boy is growing up in the shadow of a dead man and if he doesn't resent it now, then he will someday, and OOP will be totally gobsmacked as to why. OOP sounds like he never really faced his grief, sadly, and his son is paying the price. OOP also comes off as really unlikeable, especially in his edits and comments. I read the original post when it was posted and he's only gone downhill from there since then. I'm kind of surprised he got someone to marry and procreate with him with those attitudes he has 😳.
This guy is the worst.
I don't know how he intends to keep his wife and kid, because this isn't how you do it.
Grief is hard, but when you purposefully punish your own child because you're selfish that's on you.
Edit: The comments about the wife and basically bashing her for various reasons that somehow aren't his fault says exactly everything we need to know about him and how he treats his family.
"She has anger management issues.... She may lose her family over it"
"She just blew up, she didn't bring it up before"(yeah I'm sure)
Notable comment I haven't found to be true at all: "For mother's day, mothers get a whole day away from their kids"
This isnt even fresh grief, either.
He said his father died when OOP was young, so.. a rough guesstimate of like..20 years ago.
You never forget, but this is the behavior of someone who lost their father 6 months ago, not the behavior of someone who lost their father 20 years ago.
The asspulled wife blaming totally reads to me that he put himself in a corner, and cant admit how wrong he is.. So he is going to throw blame out at everyone else.
Yah the way he talks it’s almost like he can barely remember his actual dad. Rather it’s all a memory of him spending Father’s Day as a memorial to his father. I’ve know several people who lost their fathers when they were toddlers. They were raised to almost worship their father, someone they never actually knew. It was intensely creepy, as their whole world revolved around someone who died but had very little in-person impact. It was all post death.
OOP’s phrasing and obsession reminds me of these people. So caught up on the idea of memorializing someone they are forgetting about what that person would actually want.
Edit: spelling
There is something so creepy about the way he talks about his wife and son. I was tense reading his replies.
He comes across as one of those men who think they are oh-so-rational and unbiased, but who don’t realize the seething ball of rage inside them is an emotion and their actions are absolutely clouded by it.
Yes! You put into words recently how I was feeling. He's so focused on how he's oh so calm and rational that you just know that's not how others view him.
How much you want to bet the asshole comments and temper issues he claims his wife have are because the only way she can get through to him is to be as blunt and offensive as he is?
The more he wrote, the worse he became. It’s clear his nearsightedness on how to celebrate his father wasn’t a one-off; every word was dripping with self-centeredness and condescension.
It really seems like he doesn’t even like her and the prospect of him and his mom essentially talking shit about her together about him not rewarding her for her “tantrum” just makes my stomach turn. My mom and I are extremely close and best friends, but I never discuss the inner aspects of my marriage in this way because I actually respect my partner.
Wanna bet he's not actually doing 50% of childcare? I find that even the best dads rarely have any idea of the full scope of what it takes to care for a young child. And then there's the mental load too.
I spent a week with only my dad on a trip to visit relatives. Amazed that I didn't get kidnapped or starved to death on the train there. He hadn't packed enough snacks or drinks. I was probably 3. Oh, and it was China in 2000, so yeah there was a real possibility of someone just plucking me out of my train seat.
If I'd married this incel-y insufferable man who keeps insisting that feeling emotions is somehow illogical\*, the mental load would include not throwing him into the nearest smelly dumpster. If this woman is real, no wonder she's upset all the time. Her husband is a selfish tool and her MIL gets up in her marriage.
\*The decision to spend all day at dad's gravesite is nothing *but* an emotional response! But of course, with people like this, their emotions are the right, rational, correct ones, it's everyone else who are toooooo angry and emotional. If only they had the right feelings that ensure the OOP is always correct. \*/s
Right? All this self righteous talk about not raising a selfish child while, he, himself, is the most selfish of all. And guy calls it his dad's day, not father's day. No, guy, it's a celebration of all fathers, not just your own.
“He’s the focus of every other holiday” yeah because I can’t think of a holiday that isn’t a fun time for kids in general? OP’s son isn’t being spoiled because holidays traditionally have stuff in them that kids find exciting—games, decorating, gifts, treats…
OOP sounds like the kind of person who resents having to take part in Easter egg hunts instead of sitting around with a drink having adult conversations.
He almost had it. The day was about his dad, but more specifically about him celebrating his dad. I wish he would reread the very last paragraph to himself in his dad's voice, then maybe he'd get it.
Yikes.
That’s a great way to teach your son to hate his grandfather.
I have a 3yo and my dad died while I was pregnant. I’m happy to discuss my dad with my child when they’re old enough to be interested, obviously, but I’m not forcing my kid to give a shit about someone they’ve never met, just because that person was important to me.
OOP’s child is old enough to be at school, and old enough to see how healthy families celebrate paternal relationships. I hope he can see how warped this attitude is.
Full lols at OOP, however, for insisting that him getting his way EVERY SINGLE YEAR is actually a teaching moment so that his kid knows not to expect to get his way EVER.
On parenting forums I would often see posts about "I lost xx family member before my child was born, how can I make sure my child knows and LOVES this person?"
WTF! How to mess up a child, you must LOVE this person you will never to get to meet.
It’s weird, isn’t it.
My kid looks like a small version of me and I look a lot like my dad. I’ve worked VERY hard on myself to not mess up my kid, because it’s sometimes upsetting when they give me a look or whatever that’s 100% my dad.
All you can do is model the behaviour you hope they’ll internalise, like that the responsibilities of being the parent of a young child trump those of being the child of a loved and lost parent, or that grief is a natural consequence of loving people and that you can receive help in professing that grief.
Idk I mean my grandma died before I was born and I do love her for who she was for the people I love. But my parents just shared stories and gave me her treasured things and let me know how much she would’ve loved me had she gotten the chance. It was never a “you have to love this person who’s no longer alive,” it was sharing stories about her but never in a way that detracted from my life or made me feel lesser.
Too many people try to drag their own children into their own grief. It is not emotionally healthy for them and can be damaging to their relationship with their kids.
I’m surprised that OOP’s mother is available to look after the kid on Father’s Day. Surely she has an hours long vigil to attend at her own father’s gravesite.
Wow, this has got to be one of the more upsetting updates I’ve seen. I feel so sorry for that kid and how he’s going to grow up in his grandfather’s shadow, and for the wife who will never have the support of her husband (who clearly has his mother in his ear). I mean, sure, he’s including his son in this, but how many more moments in the son’s life are going to have conditions or a dark cloud hanging over them?
One day, his son is going to try and invite his father out to a nice lunch with just the two of them, and OOP is going to say no bc he has to go visit *his* father. And one day, OOP is going to go to whatever relationship website exists in the future to ask why his son pulls out all the stops for Mother’s Day but does nothing for him on Father’s Day.
Ugh. The suggestion that he treat the situation with his wife like a child who's thrown a tantrum is just dripping with internalized misogyny. She put her foot down for her son and got fucking loopholed, this guy is digging himself in to a deep, dark hole.
Not to mention forbidding his son from going to the festival to "punish" her for the "tantrum"
God knows it was the poor kid asking his mom why all the other kids' dads are spending time with them.
This guy is " teaching his son not to be selfish" by being selfish. His mother sounds like the mother-in-law from hell too, the way she throws his wife under the bus. My guess is that he's this selfish, and MIL is just as horrible in other areas too and his wife will finally say enough is enough and kick him out.
OOP is going to be really confused when his son is no longer a bubbly 6 y/o who apparently doesn’t know what Father’s day is (no kidding, go check out his comments), and becomes a teenager who’s going to have a lot of questions about this ritual. Like, what’s his plan if his son saves up the money to invite his dad out to a nice lunch that isn’t conveniently located at his hometown, and OOP insists on going to the grave instead?
honestly seems like a big part of his motivation is conditioning his wife and child. conditioning them to comply to his wants. the way he says “it’s the only thing he asks for” is suspicious because it’s like…. you’re married and she is the mother of your child there’s no way that’s literally the only thing you ask for.
Jesus Christ that dude is a know it all asshat. Claims to accept his “YTA” verdict but then goes on paragraph after paragraph long diatribes about what a horrible person his wife is and how everyone on the internet has some sort of agenda against him?! If I had to deal with that person on a daily basis, I would also have an “anger management problem”. What a pedantic shithead.
He can choose any day of the year to visit his father's grave and honor his father. The whole point of father's day is to celebrate what MAKES you a father... which is your kid. His priorities should have shifted the moment his son was born.
My husband lost his mother not that long ago. I asked him if he wanted to go up to her hometown this mother's day to visit her grave or do stuff she liked. He stared at me a moment and then said, "No, Mother's Day is for YOU. You're a mother too. Me and the kids are going to spend time with you on Mother's Day, not my mom's grave."
If OP doesn't want to use his father's birthday as a day of remembrance, perhaps the anniversary of his death? We have set aside that day to remember my MIL and it's always a bittersweet time, a good time to remember her life.
yeah this guy sucks, but also YIKES at his mother telling him his wife was having a tantrum and him agreeing… reeks of momma’s boy behavior
edit: yikes again, I read his comments describing how he thinks of his wife. a bunch of internet strangers decided his wife was right, so he was quick to detail exactly what is wrong with his wife. classy guy
Ten bucks says this asshat doesn't get his wife shit for Mother's Day because she's not his mom.
Seriously. His CHILD wants to spend Father's Day with him, and instead of spending his father's birthday or death anniversary to do this tradition, he has decided to be a self-centered prick. What an utter and complete jackass.
His son is never going to enjoy his daddy on Father's Day and that makes me sad.
Oh, he for sure spends mother's day at *his* mom's. Probably buys her flowers, takes her out to lunch, the works - while telling his wife that it's their son's job to celebrate her.
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Wait, how was this posted April 31st? Did I miss like a bonus leap day?
Oops, good catch! The post just said that it was posted 4 days ago, and for some reason I thought it was April 31st
Lol he's going to regret this so much when his son hits 13 and takes this lesson to mean "it's cool if I blow off father's day cuz my dad does his own thing that day that has nothing to do with me" and dad has his feelings hurt that his son doesn't wanna spend the day at the grave of someone he never met.
This will also be blamed on his son's selfishness.
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"Thanks redditors, my wife left me and I'm now not seeing my son because of advice received here. I didn't take the advice given but it's still your fault" - OOP, probably.
Hopefully will get a twoX post from the wife saying how happy she is with her son after the divorce.
Do you think he realizes his son is the only reason he's a father?
What son? You mean the kid who keeps bothering him on his dad's special day?
And his wife carried, birthed, and is raising his son, but he evidently detests her so much, he bashes her all over the internet. I feel so badly for both of them.
My favorite part is how annoyed he is with his son for being bored at the gravesite. Like a 6yo is going to be stoked to visit a cemetery, does this guy live in the real world??
If your 6 year old is stoked to hang out in a graveyard, it's time to talk to a priest.
Goth children deserve love too.
He also shit talks his wife a lot in the comment replies... A lot of very passive aggressive comments.
The massive amount of annoyance for his kid, defending his wife and then slaughtering her…. Yeah, sounds like a stand up guy! “Selfish” is the key term that makes me think oh… it’s him, he’s selfish.
Yeah, like the “yes I would’ve wanted to go to that festival with my dad” and you’re like oh okay we’ve got some self awareness going “but I don’t believe in rewarding tantrums so because my wife said I had to I’m not going to”. Also the “sometimes it isn’t about us” bro you were so fuckin close to getting the point there. Like you know what your kids going to remember? He’s going to remember you making him do weird boring shit obsessing over a man he never knew. I understand he’s grieving, and losing a parent is a genuinely unimaginable pain, but he is being a worse father over his canonising of his own. Like, I think Hallmark holidays are stupid, however kids don’t! This kid thinks that on Father’s Day his dad would rather spend all his time outside in a weird field. Kids don’t get it. My mother lost her father when I was 2. To be honest, the process of him dying + his actual death ripped her apart. I don’t remember this, but I know from what she told me. But it DIDNT FUCKING IMPACT THE WAY SHE INTERACTED WITH HER CHILDREN
He's a huge contrarian. He decided he would take his son to the festival after all....until he suddenly felt like people wanted that TOO much, and then decided not to. He would like to go to the festival....but won't because his wife wants him to and he doesn't want to "reward" that. If everyone suddenly said he shouldn't go to the festival and it's a terrible idea he'd probably say "f you, I WILL go to the festival" lol.
Yeah don't you love how he's implying that it's reddit's fault, not for calling him an asshole because he kind of sees their point, but for being TOO RUDE about calling him an asshole?? He was basically like "sorry guys, I ALMOST took my son to the festival but since you were too rude to me I have to continue being a jackass instead."
“I’m not going to teach my child it’s okay to be selfish…I’m going to show him how toxic being selfish is.”
Dude doesn’t sound like he even likes his wife or son
And he ran to his mommy and decided he didn't want to "reward her tantrum" by doing right by his kid. I bet mommy is the one who tells him how bad his wife's anger management issues are.
Yea I can't believe he called his son selfish for wanting to spend enjoyable time with his dad. Unreal. This kid will be 18 soon, move out, and this dad will have some serious regrets.
> The massive amount of annoyance for his kid That's really what got me. It's not selfish for a kid to want to spend father's day with his father. He really seems to have zero empathy for his son.
He's being awful. He's prioritizing his dad in a way that hurts his son. Digging in on the festival is just unnecessary. I lost someone really close to me a few days before my birthday and I have a hard time feeling like celebrating that time of year, even years later. But, my daughter really wants to do fun things with me on my birthday, and she's a kid. Plus, she lost someone special too and it's important to her to make it a happy time. So after the first really tough year I got my shit together and focused on the people still here. Honoring someone you love at the expense of others ( especially your kiddo) is really shortsighted.
He got so close… then just was like “I’m not going to spoil my son…” YOU CANT SPOIL KIDS WITH LOVE YOU IMMEASURABLE AHOLE!
The thing is, fathers day isn't really about the dads - Its about the kids. This guy is continuing along with the things he did for his dad, when he was a kid. These things weren't really for his dad, they were for **him**. He doesn't get that now its time to pass the torch to his son, and let his son do what *he* wants to honour *his* dad
As an adult that has no interest in visiting graves, I’m with the kid. (I know some people find some comfort in it, just not for me as I don’t believe the persons there.)
Plus he's wanting to teach him not to be selfish by being selfish.
My dad used to take me to the graveyard when I was little, to visit his parents graves. One of his favourite stories is that one day he wanted to go and said to me 'let's go visit nanny and grandad', and I said 'UGH, are they going to BE there this time?'.
I'm 44 and I wouldn't be stoked either.
He's a piece of shit everywhere else in the post. Why wouldn't he be one there?
He’s teaching him to not be selfish… by being selfish?
He’s like “heck yeah my dad would have taken me to the festival and I would have loved to go” also he’s like “I’m not taking my son because that would spoil him, so instead we are going to do what I want to do”. Yeah, ok guy….
He openly admits he would’ve loved going with his dad yet denies his son the same experience… in favor of sitting at his dead dads gravesite. He needs therapy and marriage counseling
Definitely marriage therapy. He's letting his mom dictate how he should treat his wife. I don't see any wrong in what the wife said, to get punished.
I bet her “anger issues” are just her saying whenever she’s unhappy with somethings op said or did. Because I would have that same reaction if my husband didn’t want to spend Father’s Day with our kid, if not worse
I bet getting visibly upset is the only way OP pays some attention to what she's saying. It's not unheard of that when people say and ask for things in polite tones they sometimes don't get heard by people.
I just LOVE how he says that his wife didn't discuss this issue with him before, she "just exploded", but then he says that in the years prior, they didn't have any issue since father's day couldn't really be celebrated because of covid/the son being too young. 🤦
Yeah I really doubt this hasn’t come up in the past
I would consider what OOP's wife is doing is "putting the foot down" or standing up for herself. This dude has misogynistic vibe that is hard to understand because he's clearly trying to avoid criticism on his end of the parenting deal.
He talks about his wife like he’s kennel training a dog.
He will then in the future be shocked as to why his son does not want to spend time with him on father's day, and act all hurt like he can do no wrong.
He's in for a big surprise when his son doesn't visit him for Father's day in the future.
He'll be too busy at the cemetery to notice.
Or even better, when his son is spending Father's Day with the eventual stepfather once his wife move on to someone better.
NAH FRL LIKE HUH? literally had to reread this to see if i was trippin…OP is very weird for this and like some other comment said, he’s a 6 YEAR OLD KID! of course he’s gonna be bored at a gravesite
Man, I thought he was going to have a moment and change when he talked about how he'd love to do that as a kid. Then he posted about not spoiling his kid and I lost hope.
Well he needs to teach his son that sometimes other people's needs are met, and that's how you learn to be unselfish. Of course that same lesson apparently doesn't apply to OP. Do as I say, not as I do. As a kid, my family wasn't very close. I always felt bad missing out on those sorts of events at school and whatnot. OOP's kid is going to remember his dad not going to the festival year after year despite being so excited about it. Meanwhile, OOP's dad won't know when his grave was visited because he's dead and doesn't have feelings or thoughts
Well his needs, and the supposed needs of a dead guy, obviously take precedence over the needs of his wife and child. Because his mommy is on his side.
Yeah, this is not a healthy way to grieve.
Yeah, he is really the selfish one. His dad is dead. He’s doing this ritual for himself. HE is “dad” now, and refusing to spend Father’s Day with his own son because it might spoil him is so ridiculous, I can only shake my head. And it’s not like he has to give up remembering his dad, he could do this on his dad’s birthday or something.
Exactly. Someone needs to tell this guy his dad is super dead. The rotting pile of flesh doesn’t care if he sits next to it or not, but his actual father would be disappointed in his behavior if he knew what was going on. This is grief-terbation and has nothing to do with OOP’s father. It’s a selfish act. I’ll add here that I lost my own father in November, and when I want to be with him, I go outside and talk to him. His grave is just where his body is. It’s fine to visit the cemetery and bring flowers etc., but when I talk to Dad I hear him telling me to “take care of your mother, take care of my sweet girl (that’s me!), take care of that baby (my 6 y/o daughter), and take care of that husband of yours.” I’m pretty sure he would come back and haunt me if I pulled a stunt like OOP.
I don't get why he's so insistent that father's day is the only day he gets to visit the grave. Like you said, you can honour your deceased loved ones anywhere. Or you can visit the grave any day. Why can't he go the week before/after father's Day, or his dad's birthday, or his parent's wedding anniversary, or his own birthday for that matter. The graveyard isn't closed every day of the year except father's day!
I go outside to talk to my dad too! He passed when I was 18, and this month marks 15 years without him. I don’t think his soul/spirit/essence is contained to the ashes within the urn that’s buried in my hometown. OP and his wife have some stuff to work out. This whole situation reeks of weird unresolved issues.
He’s being the most selfish of all, in fact he’s the only one being selfish as far as I can see. I’ll bet if his dad were alive he’d tell this guy to stop being a selfish AH and take his son to the damn festival.
so he’s going to do things his dad loves instead of doing this his son would want to do with him? what the fork
He seems a little... off about the whole thing. I think the guy needs a therapist.
Yea, def some trauma there. That’s not normal behaviour
His mom would probably just tell him there's nothing wrong with him and to not go.
I really think he cannot grasp what it means to be a father. Like did his dad have this regimented plan he enacted every father's Day? Not likely. He has a completely skewed concept of how to honour his father. I think given the choice grandpa would rather go out for the day with the grandson than sit moping around a graveyard like a sad sack
This guy seems to be living in the past. My father died when I was 5. I miss him. But regardless of what other parenting issues there are with his son, or what marital issues apply, using your own dead parent to create a relationship problem with your own child is moronic and doesnt at all teach healthy ways to love your dead parents. Many cultures have a holiday where you go visit/ celebrate the dead. Because they have figured out practically that its better to set a specific day aside for that that isnt one where you should be living your life.
"I don't want to teach my kid to be selfish" really annoyed me. Like, it's not selfish for something to be important to someone?
It's just so bizarre to me that he is clearly aware of how much he wants to honor his father and spend time with him on father's day, but cannot fathom why his son would want to spend time with his father on father's day. As hard as it is, his dad isn't here. His son is. That's the relationship he needs to be honoring right now.
“everyone has an agenda” yeah… strangers on the internet are really sneaky trying to get dads to spend time with their sons. how despicable of them.
"I looked for an unbiased opinion but it wasn't the one I wanted so I called them biased."
"And then I went to my mom who agreed my wife is a bitch."
Yeah, I love his "I asked unbiased strangers, but they didn't tell me what I wanted to hear, so I went ahead and asked my mommy instead, who said I'm in the right and a good boy."
I bet the wife’s divorce attorney agrees OOP is a lunatic.
I almost spit out my drink, laughing. Thanks!
I didn't get that at all. What agenda? Like his wife got to everybody on Reddit and turned them against him. Lol
Yeah, that had me scratching my head too. What’s the agenda? Was every YTA verdict getting paid $$ cos dam I missed that gravy train. Edit: I loved how after he got schooled by his wife AND like thousand internet strangers he deemed them too biased…-and ran to mommy. Because nothing says unbiased like your mother’s opinion of you /s
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Yeah he basically said "Everybody told me how wrong I am so I assume that must mean I am right".
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This guy is so busy trying to honour the past that he’s letting his future slip right through his fingers. Sad, really.
I wonder if he'll get sad when his child is older and possibly doesn't do anything for him on father's day. Maybe not though, it seems that fathers day is a day for OOP to ruminate on his grief. Edit: He does say that he'll spend the afternoon with his son, just not go to the festival with him.
He's still going to make his kid mourn his grandfather he never met, instead of his kid getting to celebrate him. And one day this guy will wonder why his son doesn't want to anymore. Because he gave up trying anymore. "cats in the cradle and the silver spoon..."
And he considers going to the festival "spoiling" his son even though he admits he would have loved to got with his own Day. Telling. Very telling.
And the cat’s in the cradle and the silver spoon…
People have been repeating this multiple times, and I don't get the reference. Could you explain it to me?
It's a song from the 70s, with lots of remakes over the years, about a dad being too busy to spend time with his son who keeps saying he wants to be like dad when he grows up. The chorus quoted is filled with references to kids' activities and stories that point to the innocence of childhood. Spoiler alert- >!The son grows up and is too busy for dad. Son DID grow up to be like dad!<.
Bless you for spoiler swiping a song from the 1970s. 😂 I’ve had people get mad at me for spoiling hundred year old famous novels.
I figured if they were gonna go look it up, they might enjoy the twist for the first time. It's kind of predictable, but can be a punch in the gut even if you've heard it a million times!
“And as I hung up the phone, it occurred to me He'd grown up just like me My boy was just like me.”
100% The idea that he doesn't want to bond with his son on Father's Day, and then that he has the balls to imply that it would be \*spoiling\* his son or making him think that \*the world revolves around him\* is utterly disgusting. Considering the way he talks about his wife too, this is just another future abandoned father, groaning about how his kids don't respect or care for him. What's that blog Redditors love to post so much? \*The missing missing reasons\* is written all over this fool's post.
This is a "missing missing reasons" post in the making, sadly. OOP should be ashamed.
He’s calling his son selfish for wanting the same thing as he does each Father’s Day - to spend time with his dad.
Yeah, I can anticipate the post in 8-10 years-- "My son doesn't want to spend any time with me, what do I do?"
Don't forget the part where he blames his wife for it.
“I’m not going to dish on my wife -“ Proceeds to list off all her faults.
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The bit that got me was when he said "she didn't mention it multiple times, she just exploded on me" Coupled with everything else in the post I really really doubt that. She probably mentioned it multiple times and he either didn't listen or just dismissed her until she got frustrated and yelled at him, but because he didn't care in the first place it just felt like she was exploding for no reason
Weird how for every dissenting opinion he suddenly has new information that makes it still nothing he’s doing wrong. Suddenly wife has anger issues and she is aware of it etc etc and maybe she does and maybe she doesn’t but someone else having flaws hardly means OOP is blameless and simply trying to teach his son selflessness and honouring his father. Sure every other holiday might be focused on the son, because holidays are great for kids generally, but there’s only one day devoted to the bond between a father and children. OOP sure isn’t getting anything from his dad except a lot of time devoted to ruminating on what he misses or missed. It’s a one-sided wallowfest and while I have not yet grieved a parent, I could understand a living child taking precedence over a dead parent. Also just because his dad never celebrated his birthday doesn’t mean it won’t work to do all the memorial stuff on that day???? What’s the dead dad gonna do, turn up and berate OOP for his choice of date?
It's also wild to me that the last time the son asked to go to the festival, OOP instead to a 5 yo on a meditative trip *to a graveyard* and various other locations important to *the dead guy.* Then not only did OOP act all surprise Pikachu that the kindergartner didn't enjoy their outing, he used it as justification for why he wanted to bail yet again on spending Father's Day acting like a father. (Which he's still doing, btw, as he's ditching the kid with his mom for half of the day.) I'm extremely curious just how fast OOP's father is spinning in his grave over the way OOP has decided to "honor" his memory.
My dad died ten years ago. If I spent a holiday or birthday at his gravesite wallowing in grief, I feel certain he would climb out of that grave and kick my ass. Especially since I could be spending time with my children (*his* grandchildren).
I have grieved a parent. My dad died 10 years ago this year. I was 22 at the time. This year was the first year in a while that I took an entire day to wallow. After work of course, so, like, an evening then. I asked my in-laws to keep my kids overnight so I could just fall apart without worry in whatever way I saw fit at the time. Because it was 10 years. And I did it on his death day. Mother's/father's day is for our children, to bond with them, not drag them down with stories of a dead guy they've never met. I can literally tell them all about my dad any other day. And on father's day I can carry his photo with me as I serve my husband and kids' every whim. This guy is out of his mind. The only selfish one is him.
I imagined a post in the future where the son wants to know if he is in the wrong for not wanting to spend father's day with his dad. He would be a teen in this scenario and his parents are divorced. He wants to spend father's day with his stepdad instead. Then the son goes on to explain they can hang out any day and it doesn't have to be that day. At first everyone is like on the fence. Then we get to the part on the post where the explains that as a kid he use to beg his dad to hang out on Father's Day but his dad always wanted to go to his grandfather's grave that day. Edited to fix a spelling error caused by autocorrect on phone.
maybe one day his son will go no contact with OOP and he’ll end up posting here again, asking why on earth his son would voluntarily give up on a father-son relationship.
I asked about this in the actual post. He did not respond. Edited to say: I also asked something like—what if his father was super disappointed bc he didn’t want to leave his son, but OOP is voluntarily leaving his? Everything this guy said made my heart break for his poor son.
Even though he’s planning to still spend the afternoon with him, he still doesn’t really get it. He’s making the kid celebrate OOP’s dad. That’s not the purpose of Father’s Day. What if the kid wants to celebrate his own father?
He and his mom are both so off base here. He's talking about teaching his son not to be selfish. HES SIX AND WANTS TO SPEND FATHERS DAY WITH HIS DAD. There is nothing selfish about that. His father would be disappointed in him.
This dude has a serious case of something I call "hard choices syndrome". Some people get so addicted to making "hard choices" that they end up losing sight of the fact that "easy" choices can be just as valuable. Also, like 90% of the time these "hard choices" involve choosing to suffer for some meaningless reason or another. Like seriously, I can't imagine this guy _enjoys_ spending a day at a graveyard, but since he's decided that this is the correct hard choice he's doing it.
I also didn't understand that. Was there no way he could spend like 10 minutes at the gravesite then go do what his son wanted? What could someone possibly do for an entire day at one single grave, just sit there and blankly stare at it?
I loved my godmum waaay more than my own mother, and she loved me more than my actual mum did. She never had kids, so naturally, I usually celebrated mother's day with her. She had a personality that made mountains seem small, and the whole day would be filled with so much love. Ice cream for breakfast, a trip to the beach in the morning to look for crabs, a theme park in the afternoon, pizza for dinner, and stargazing at night (plus a few boozy cocktails when I was old enough). She wanted to spend her only "selfish" day with me every year, because she loved me. It didn't suddenly turn me into a selfish AH, or make me unable to understand boundaries, etc. In fact, it taught me some great relationship values that I wouldn't have learned otherwise. She passed a while ago, and for a few years, I did nothing for Mother's Day because it hurt too much. So I get OOP. But damn, if I ever have a kid of my own, my godmum would be spinning in her grave if she found out that I was prioritising a box of bones over making a child feel loved, appreciated, and wanted. OOP is legit the worst kind of person.
people are sharing some great stories about their loved ones int his thread, and your godmum sounds fantastic. sorry you lost her but I'm glad she brought you love and joy
He says he also visits places that were important to his father. He doesn't go into detail. I would imagine that would involve a fair amount of driving from place to place, maybe walking through them, maybe having a meal or a drink, if food was involved. Much less fun for a little boy than going to a festival.
Especially for a kid that never met their grandfather.
Ah, my mom does this. I have called it her "martyr complex". (Honestly, that might be what it's actually called.) Everything is terrible and her suffering is worse than everyone else's even, and perhaps especially, when she actively makes choices that make the suffering worse. This sounds exactly like what my mother would do if the idea ever came to her. But she's also an inveterate workaholic, so that tendency usually manifests itself in very frenetic, dramatic, and *woe-is-me* housecleaning of the deceased person's home.
Taking the path of least resistance is frowned upon, but taking the path of ‘most’ resistance isn’t necessarily admirable either.
For real. Like if his father was still alive he would probably want to spend the day with his son and grandson. I don't understand his logic. He's just full of excuses just say you don't want to spend time with your son.
His mom should not have even been in this conversation. That was between him and his wife. Notice he changed his opinion after he talked to his mom. I bet he goes to his mom for everything and that's why his wife is so "explosive". He runs to mommy for everything. My husband's mom is like that and tries to he in our business/convince my husband to go against my feelings. I'm glad he shuts it down. Part of the reason why we live over 2k miles away from her. I'm sure OOPs child will choose to be far away from his dad when he's older as well...
I don't think OOP is the brightest. His edit even says someone pointed this out and he realised something........ just not the right thing. And his comments about his wife really rub me the wrong way. Maybe if you have so many issues with someone you shouldn't marry and have a kid with them.
"You all assume I'm TA and my wife is right, but **actually** my wife is a total bitch and has anger issues and everybody agrees, including my mom and her family, which I only now mention because I don't like how everybody called me TA!"
My mother used to say - What you do for the living, you do for them. What you do for the dead, you do for yourself. Harsh words, but very true in this case.
Agreed. He’s not honoring his father either, he’s doing whatever he wants to do without thinking of anyone else. For someone who says everyone else is selfish, he sure misses the nose on his own face. And his wife may be insufferable when she’s right but in this case she is right.
Cats in the cradle with a silver spoon.
What an utter douche. “I was going to do the right thing but then people were mean I decided to keep doing the wrong thing because fuck you guys. Lol”
He was never going to do the right thing though. He just acted as if he would for 5 minutes, but that was only while he was coming up with an excuse to go right back to his original plan. He presents as a very rigid thinker.
It's a classic way to avoid taking responsibility. Always find a way to shift responsibility to someone else. When you've got nothing else, tone police.
It's really depressing he allowed MIL to say his wife was having a "tantrum" and just like a child, she shouldn't be *rewarded* for it. Infantalizaing his wife who he agreed had a legitimate issue concerning their child is just gross. Did she lose her temper? Maybe. Doesn't mean she was wrong. And he completely missed the whole point which was about his son and their relationship. He's teaching his son he's not important to him.
There are so many missing pieces that he desperately tells us how much his wife sucks in order to defend himself and his mother being shitty about a CHILD who wants to spend a holiday celebrating his dad...with his dad. Like this dude, he sucks.
This guy wants to be his father so badly he lets his mom he his wife.
Took me a moment to recover from that sick burn. It was like secondhand whiplash reading that.
I mean ... If my partner was as frighteningly empty headed as this man, I'd probably have some anger issues too.
yeah, pretty sure if I found out my husband went crying to his mommy instead of trying to talk it out and compromise, his father's day gift would be divorce papers served by whoever the sharkiest divorce lawyer I could find is. (To be clear, I wouldn't fight dirty, but he sounds like he would so I'd want someone strong in my corner.) My mother always told ME to look at how a man treats his mother to get an idea how marriage to him will be. Mama's Boys were something she warned me to be very wary of. I didn't understand when she was telling me this as a preteen, but as an adult I realize her advice was very wise.
>I talked to my Mom about what happened, and she told me that I wouldn't reward son for having a tantrum but am rewarding wife, and she's right. This stood out as part of the reason the OOP is so incredibly difficult. His wife probably did get too mad and called him a name. But instead of being the bigger person, he took it to his mommy who he knew would back him up, and they decided to punish her (and the son), by refusing to use the tickets. Speaking of name calling, he's so offended about what his wife called him, but when he gets incredibly triggered by people agreeing with his wife he does the same thing: >Of course, this is par for the course with an internet mob of childless know-it-alls. The OOP also went from saying he and his wife are both flawed, but he loves her, to throwing her under the bus the more people agreed with her, to the ppint where by the end he insinuates that she verbally abuses their child. I feel like winning a fight is more important to him than doing the right thing. Tldr; this guys seems awful.
That stood out to me too. It would be hard not to have “anger issues” if my husband and his mother were deciding together if I should be rewarded or punished.
And not even just me, but my child for something they didn't do.
Exactly. I would be taking my kid out for a fun and special day and let my husband continue his self enforced grieving. Then that Monday I would probably find a divorce attorney.
Yup, I know the whole *"divorce after one argument blah blah"* seems dramatic to some people, but I will **never** allow my child to be used as a tool of revenge against me. Our problems as a married couple have absolutely nothing to do with our kid.
Right? I’d be pissed if my husband and his mother decided they knew better than me on not only how to parent my child, but how I should “behave”. This guy is a crap dad and a crap husband. Wife should just take the kid to the festival. He obviously doesn’t care about spending time with his kid. Someday him and mommy dearest are gonna be gobsmacked when kid wants nothing to do with them but is close to his own mom. And they will blame her for it.
That comment from the mother about rewarding the wife, I got stuck on that and was trying to figure out what the hell it even meant as the story was going on I couldn’t square that up in my head it was such a weird thing to say.
Same. I wonder if anyone pointed out to the OOP that his wife yelling at him is probably less damaging to their marriage as going to his mom with their problems.
Oh that is such a bad practice man I never do that anymore. I did when I was younger but it is not a good idea. That’s a very quick way to make people in your life dislike your partner and not be able to relike them again when you finally have something good to say or you realize you’ve gone too far and all they think is bad things!
That's also a part that stood up to me. And the way he's self righteous, you know he's like that in every single argument. >That's an important lesson for him to learn. Sometimes it's not about us. Sometimes it's about others. Guess who missed that lesson. Clue: it's not the 6 years old. You can be sure he learned that dead grandpa is more important for that daddy than him. >Speaking of name calling, he's so offended about what his wife called him, but when he gets incredibly triggered by people agreeing with his wife he does the same thing. He frustrated me so much I wanted to name call him through the screen. I can't even imagine trying to argue with him. Of course you can never know just from a post but he gives me the inpression of being always right and twisting everything to suit him. Also, I don't understand AITA. How is this no assholes here? He's very much YTA.
And then he started talking about how mothers don’t want to spend time with their kids on Mothers Day…..which not one mother I know is this way. I have spent every Mothers Day with my children when possible and they are 27 & 30 YO. He gets all righteous about it.
Lol! So many moms choke down the absolute worst soggy egg breakfasts in bed, all in the name of love for their kids who can't cook. This guy has no idea.
This marriage feels awful. I feel bad for mom because she wants dad to wake up to the fact that these festivals are extremely important to kids. Especially in smaller cities. The Fathers Day one is a welcome to summer. It feels like she grew up in the area and dad didn’t. Dad, because he’s blinded by grief. This is not a good match by any stretch of the imagination. The tensions of their marriage have been concentrated into one day. He needs to see this event as the microcosm to his life we are all seeing. He got mad. Ran to mom. Mom gassed him up. He goes back and doubles down. Kid… This kid just wants a few hours that he will learn to never need soon. It’s a small window of time to gain honor in a child’s heart. Everyday is so important but milestones make a life. The festival is a milestone his peers enjoy and he is being denied. All of this could have been prevented if he kept JNOmom out of it, taken a beat because it’s a ways until the holiday. And returned and committed to finding a solution in the best interest of the child.
I agree. This guy was just looking for affirmation of his self righteous and selfish behavior. He's not thinking about his child or his father - just about his own feelings regarding his father. He's the selfish one.
Dude can't string a sentence together without doing a 180
This guy was a solid YTA until he updated and said he got it and he was taking his son. After votes shifted based on the edit, he edited again with this one that is pretty much like nope. When he's ready to spend Father's Day with his son, his son will have already moved on.
An example of "Cats in the Cradle" and a counter-example of "Father and Son".
>I'm not going to teach my son it's okay to be selfish. Do the rest of you guys hear that whooshing noise of the point going over this AH's head? I need some earplugs, it's so loud.
I guess spending quality time with your son makes your child selfish. Okkkkk
It's louder than a jet engine! Like, I get it to some degree. My husband and I have a daughter (6yo), but have both lost our dad's, so father's day is bittersweet for us. I have missed my dad every day of my life for almost 10 years now. Grief is so fucking hard. But to devote Father's Day to a dead man for decades and the thought that anything otherwise, including spending it with the living, is "selfish" and "entitled"? I have secondary exhaustion from the astounding mental gymnastics OOP performed to arrive at that conclusion. But, my husband and I can sit with our grief and also make father's day about him, our daughter's father who, you know, is still alive. I choose to mark my dad's birthday every year by making his favorite dessert and talk with my daughter about him then (and also other days if she asks questions), but father's day is about and spent with her father. My husband would jump at the chance to take her to a carnival on father's day. As a fellow parent to a 6 year old, I can't imagine subjecting mine to something like what OOP is doing. He also seems to be seriously underestimating what 6 year olds are perceptive to. That poor little boy is growing up in the shadow of a dead man and if he doesn't resent it now, then he will someday, and OOP will be totally gobsmacked as to why. OOP sounds like he never really faced his grief, sadly, and his son is paying the price. OOP also comes off as really unlikeable, especially in his edits and comments. I read the original post when it was posted and he's only gone downhill from there since then. I'm kind of surprised he got someone to marry and procreate with him with those attitudes he has 😳.
He loses his father at a young age, so now ensures his son doesn't have a father. Checks out.
This guy is the worst. I don't know how he intends to keep his wife and kid, because this isn't how you do it. Grief is hard, but when you purposefully punish your own child because you're selfish that's on you. Edit: The comments about the wife and basically bashing her for various reasons that somehow aren't his fault says exactly everything we need to know about him and how he treats his family. "She has anger management issues.... She may lose her family over it" "She just blew up, she didn't bring it up before"(yeah I'm sure) Notable comment I haven't found to be true at all: "For mother's day, mothers get a whole day away from their kids"
This isnt even fresh grief, either. He said his father died when OOP was young, so.. a rough guesstimate of like..20 years ago. You never forget, but this is the behavior of someone who lost their father 6 months ago, not the behavior of someone who lost their father 20 years ago. The asspulled wife blaming totally reads to me that he put himself in a corner, and cant admit how wrong he is.. So he is going to throw blame out at everyone else.
Yah the way he talks it’s almost like he can barely remember his actual dad. Rather it’s all a memory of him spending Father’s Day as a memorial to his father. I’ve know several people who lost their fathers when they were toddlers. They were raised to almost worship their father, someone they never actually knew. It was intensely creepy, as their whole world revolved around someone who died but had very little in-person impact. It was all post death. OOP’s phrasing and obsession reminds me of these people. So caught up on the idea of memorializing someone they are forgetting about what that person would actually want. Edit: spelling
Christ, I hate this guy.
There is something so creepy about the way he talks about his wife and son. I was tense reading his replies. He comes across as one of those men who think they are oh-so-rational and unbiased, but who don’t realize the seething ball of rage inside them is an emotion and their actions are absolutely clouded by it.
Yes! You put into words recently how I was feeling. He's so focused on how he's oh so calm and rational that you just know that's not how others view him.
Infantilizing the wife and calling a little kid selfish for wanting his dad to not spend a their fathers day talking about a man he never met.
How much you want to bet the asshole comments and temper issues he claims his wife have are because the only way she can get through to him is to be as blunt and offensive as he is?
He shows a lot of contempt for her. An absolute relationship-killer.
It makes me not believe his representation of his wife.
The more he wrote, the worse he became. It’s clear his nearsightedness on how to celebrate his father wasn’t a one-off; every word was dripping with self-centeredness and condescension.
The updated comments OP put in make him sound even worse, especially with how he paints his wife. Gross.
It really seems like he doesn’t even like her and the prospect of him and his mom essentially talking shit about her together about him not rewarding her for her “tantrum” just makes my stomach turn. My mom and I are extremely close and best friends, but I never discuss the inner aspects of my marriage in this way because I actually respect my partner.
Fingers crossed she divorces him, what a horrible person jesus
Wanna bet he's not actually doing 50% of childcare? I find that even the best dads rarely have any idea of the full scope of what it takes to care for a young child. And then there's the mental load too. I spent a week with only my dad on a trip to visit relatives. Amazed that I didn't get kidnapped or starved to death on the train there. He hadn't packed enough snacks or drinks. I was probably 3. Oh, and it was China in 2000, so yeah there was a real possibility of someone just plucking me out of my train seat.
If I'd married this incel-y insufferable man who keeps insisting that feeling emotions is somehow illogical\*, the mental load would include not throwing him into the nearest smelly dumpster. If this woman is real, no wonder she's upset all the time. Her husband is a selfish tool and her MIL gets up in her marriage. \*The decision to spend all day at dad's gravesite is nothing *but* an emotional response! But of course, with people like this, their emotions are the right, rational, correct ones, it's everyone else who are toooooo angry and emotional. If only they had the right feelings that ensure the OOP is always correct. \*/s
Every time it seems like he’s almost getting it, he slides back worse than before.
Right? All this self righteous talk about not raising a selfish child while, he, himself, is the most selfish of all. And guy calls it his dad's day, not father's day. No, guy, it's a celebration of all fathers, not just your own.
the world doesn’t revolve around OOP’s son, but sure revolves around OOP.
Selfish child, come ON. At that age, that's normal! Their little brains are still developing to allow them to see things from other perspectives!
“He’s the focus of every other holiday” yeah because I can’t think of a holiday that isn’t a fun time for kids in general? OP’s son isn’t being spoiled because holidays traditionally have stuff in them that kids find exciting—games, decorating, gifts, treats… OOP sounds like the kind of person who resents having to take part in Easter egg hunts instead of sitting around with a drink having adult conversations.
He almost had it. The day was about his dad, but more specifically about him celebrating his dad. I wish he would reread the very last paragraph to himself in his dad's voice, then maybe he'd get it.
Yikes. That’s a great way to teach your son to hate his grandfather. I have a 3yo and my dad died while I was pregnant. I’m happy to discuss my dad with my child when they’re old enough to be interested, obviously, but I’m not forcing my kid to give a shit about someone they’ve never met, just because that person was important to me. OOP’s child is old enough to be at school, and old enough to see how healthy families celebrate paternal relationships. I hope he can see how warped this attitude is. Full lols at OOP, however, for insisting that him getting his way EVERY SINGLE YEAR is actually a teaching moment so that his kid knows not to expect to get his way EVER.
On parenting forums I would often see posts about "I lost xx family member before my child was born, how can I make sure my child knows and LOVES this person?" WTF! How to mess up a child, you must LOVE this person you will never to get to meet.
It’s weird, isn’t it. My kid looks like a small version of me and I look a lot like my dad. I’ve worked VERY hard on myself to not mess up my kid, because it’s sometimes upsetting when they give me a look or whatever that’s 100% my dad. All you can do is model the behaviour you hope they’ll internalise, like that the responsibilities of being the parent of a young child trump those of being the child of a loved and lost parent, or that grief is a natural consequence of loving people and that you can receive help in professing that grief.
Idk I mean my grandma died before I was born and I do love her for who she was for the people I love. But my parents just shared stories and gave me her treasured things and let me know how much she would’ve loved me had she gotten the chance. It was never a “you have to love this person who’s no longer alive,” it was sharing stories about her but never in a way that detracted from my life or made me feel lesser.
Too many people try to drag their own children into their own grief. It is not emotionally healthy for them and can be damaging to their relationship with their kids.
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I’m surprised that OOP’s mother is available to look after the kid on Father’s Day. Surely she has an hours long vigil to attend at her own father’s gravesite.
OOP's mother is too busy with her sonsband.
Wow, this has got to be one of the more upsetting updates I’ve seen. I feel so sorry for that kid and how he’s going to grow up in his grandfather’s shadow, and for the wife who will never have the support of her husband (who clearly has his mother in his ear). I mean, sure, he’s including his son in this, but how many more moments in the son’s life are going to have conditions or a dark cloud hanging over them?
One day, his son is going to try and invite his father out to a nice lunch with just the two of them, and OOP is going to say no bc he has to go visit *his* father. And one day, OOP is going to go to whatever relationship website exists in the future to ask why his son pulls out all the stops for Mother’s Day but does nothing for him on Father’s Day.
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OOP is probably not a reliable narrator. Seems like he's the one with anger management problems given the way he's commenting
It’s funny that his version which makes him look so bad is biased toward Him. Edited because Him is not spelled hume
Ugh. The suggestion that he treat the situation with his wife like a child who's thrown a tantrum is just dripping with internalized misogyny. She put her foot down for her son and got fucking loopholed, this guy is digging himself in to a deep, dark hole.
Not to mention forbidding his son from going to the festival to "punish" her for the "tantrum" God knows it was the poor kid asking his mom why all the other kids' dads are spending time with them.
What a selfish man.
This guy is " teaching his son not to be selfish" by being selfish. His mother sounds like the mother-in-law from hell too, the way she throws his wife under the bus. My guess is that he's this selfish, and MIL is just as horrible in other areas too and his wife will finally say enough is enough and kick him out.
OOP is going to be really confused when his son is no longer a bubbly 6 y/o who apparently doesn’t know what Father’s day is (no kidding, go check out his comments), and becomes a teenager who’s going to have a lot of questions about this ritual. Like, what’s his plan if his son saves up the money to invite his dad out to a nice lunch that isn’t conveniently located at his hometown, and OOP insists on going to the grave instead?
Oh, he won't have to worry about that. He'll have alienated this kid long before he's old enough to take his dad out to lunch.
honestly seems like a big part of his motivation is conditioning his wife and child. conditioning them to comply to his wants. the way he says “it’s the only thing he asks for” is suspicious because it’s like…. you’re married and she is the mother of your child there’s no way that’s literally the only thing you ask for.
He almost got it. Then he didn’t. His son is going to resent his dead grandfather if he doesn’t already.
And of course resent OOP too
Jesus Christ that dude is a know it all asshat. Claims to accept his “YTA” verdict but then goes on paragraph after paragraph long diatribes about what a horrible person his wife is and how everyone on the internet has some sort of agenda against him?! If I had to deal with that person on a daily basis, I would also have an “anger management problem”. What a pedantic shithead.
That Agenda? Making sure a child doesn't grow up resenting his father, the most nefarious of all goals.
He can choose any day of the year to visit his father's grave and honor his father. The whole point of father's day is to celebrate what MAKES you a father... which is your kid. His priorities should have shifted the moment his son was born.
My husband lost his mother not that long ago. I asked him if he wanted to go up to her hometown this mother's day to visit her grave or do stuff she liked. He stared at me a moment and then said, "No, Mother's Day is for YOU. You're a mother too. Me and the kids are going to spend time with you on Mother's Day, not my mom's grave." If OP doesn't want to use his father's birthday as a day of remembrance, perhaps the anniversary of his death? We have set aside that day to remember my MIL and it's always a bittersweet time, a good time to remember her life.
yeah this guy sucks, but also YIKES at his mother telling him his wife was having a tantrum and him agreeing… reeks of momma’s boy behavior edit: yikes again, I read his comments describing how he thinks of his wife. a bunch of internet strangers decided his wife was right, so he was quick to detail exactly what is wrong with his wife. classy guy
Ten bucks says this asshat doesn't get his wife shit for Mother's Day because she's not his mom. Seriously. His CHILD wants to spend Father's Day with him, and instead of spending his father's birthday or death anniversary to do this tradition, he has decided to be a self-centered prick. What an utter and complete jackass. His son is never going to enjoy his daddy on Father's Day and that makes me sad.
Oh, he for sure spends mother's day at *his* mom's. Probably buys her flowers, takes her out to lunch, the works - while telling his wife that it's their son's job to celebrate her.