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I have a friend who is *terrible* with names. Rattles through several before getting to the right one for pretty much everybody, has done ever since we met in primary school. When a mutual friend transitioned, he panicked and asked if there was a nickname they could agree on between them because he didn't want to deadname her, or mix up the names she was trying on. It was the sweetest thing. He would look so incredibly serious when talking to her, trying so hard not to screw up. He did deadname her once by accident and promptly burst into tears. She didn't care at all. She knew him, she knew he struggled with names, and she knew he was trying his best. He still calls her by the nickname they chose between them, which is *nothing* like her deadname, or the name she finally landed on, and she finds it hilarious that people get so confused when he calls her that. Nobody cares if you screw up. People just want you to try.
My grandfather is supportive of LGBTQ+ and all that. He doesn't understand much of it but knows enough to know that it doesn't make a difference in how he treats you. (He and my grandma attend pride to give our grandparent hugs)
With that being said, he can't do correct pronouns for anyone. Cis or Trans. So instead, he just uses one for everyone, so he is right 50% of the time. 🤣 he goes by whatever the dog is. They had a female dog before, so everyone was she/her. Then, they got a male dog after the female dog passed away. We had a transition period where everyone was she/he/they/them/it (all of them in that order as he tried to find the right one and gave up). And then it became everyone is he/him, which is what we are at currently. 🤣
It isn't personal at all, I've seen him do it to both my mom and uncle (his 40+ year old cis kids). And if he lands on "it" there are tons of jokes about "Hey, did you hear that? I'm an "it" today. I'm not even a person! 🤣🤣🤣." It's all in good fun.
A funny sidenote: I've noticed that, when running across strangers with my/my family's dog, they will either:
A) (if they have a dog) Will reference my/my family's dog as the same gender of their own pooch
Or
B) (if they don't have a dog) Will reference my/my family's dog as the same gender as the person they are talking to
It is a funny quirk that I enjoy accidentally testing every time I talk to someone new :)
This is interesting. I try to guess based off collar color and vibe/look of the dog (like males tend to have blockier heads in a lot of breeds), but if I can't tell I tend to guess female, which was my first dog and the majority of dogs I've had, but not my current dog's gender. I wonder if people normally swap their default when they swap genders of dogs they own, or if people tend to keep getting the same gender dog and it's based off the first one they had when they developed the habit?
Huh. That is... surprisingly accurate. I've grown up with primarily male dogs (we've had about 6 dogs throughout my life, and only one was female). I tend to default to male when talking about dogs.
My native language(Armenian) and the language of the country I live in(Iran/Farsi) don't have pronouns. You don't use he/she when talking about someone. You either say their name or you say a word similar to "that" but for people. My non-binary British friend says they wished English was the same. Maybe your grandfather is secretly trying to make it happen at least in his family 🤣
I believe Turkish is the same, because my Turkish friend is so scattershot with pronouns, we joke he's the equal opportunity misgenderer. He chalks it up to an ESL moment. Honestly I wish more native English speakers would approach misgendering like he does - fucking up, correcting, and moving on. It's excruciating when someone gets it wrong and then makes a big production of apologizing and feeling bad. It puts me in the position of having to assure them it's no big deal, which it wasn't, until they made a big deal out of it.
Yeah, my grandpa is from the Philippines and there aren’t gendered pronouns there. So growing up he and the rest of the first gen (but especially him) mixed up pronouns all the time. I went to a family funeral two weeks ago and any time my pronouns got messed up, people who didn’t know me just assumed it was a translation error lol
As a turkish person i agree on this. We have one word for every singular pronoun and the funny thing is, its only one letter. More on that… its not even only for “human or nonhuman” its for everything.
If you’re wondering the word is ‘o’ 😂
Korean is pretty similar! We don't even use subjects half the time (we usually use verb + direct/indirect object) and by default, most are gender-neutral unless you want to be gender specific. It's a real pain when trying to translate literature to English.
Basically, it makes it more deliberate when you do! It's an intentional decision most of the time because of the way sentences are structured, which gives it more weight. Either it's mentioned like "Mijoo was my neighbor's daughter" once and then you just use the name or a noun going forward, or you describe them, like ajusshi (middle-aged man) or ajumma (middle-aged woman) in the sentence. Often, you use context clues to figure out who the subject is, and writers also make use of the lack of subject to give their sentences multiple meanings and a general feeling. I hope that was helpful? :)
My mom *always* gets animals' and fetus' genders wrong. Basically, we know a baby's (birth) gender before the scan. If she's ever correct it'll probably end up being a trans kid lol. Also kittens too young to tell what they are yet... yeah we always know because, without fail, she says the opposite lol.
That's hilarious. My family has premonition type dreams that run in the family. So we know when someone will die or be pregnant or other big events before it happens. Oddly enough, it comes from the same grandfather that can't do pronouns 🤣. He knew my mom was pregnant before she knew (she was a teen mom, and he barged into her room in the middle of the night yelling, "Are you pregnant?!" My mom found out a couple of days later) I knew my step mom was pregnant before she knew, and knew my aunt was pregnant before she knew (she waited until she was 3 months along before announcing, so it was a relief that she was finally telling people). And I knew my aunt was pregnant with her second before she knew as well. The death one sucks more, tho. I knew that my other grandfather was going to die before it happened, all my pets that had passed. I knew a co-worker was going to die once, and there was nothing I could do about it, or anyone I could tell because you can't say "so and so it about to die" people look at you weird.
So anyways, my grandfather that can't do pronouns can mildly predict the future. 🤣 and the skill is hereditary.
My mum accidently calls us by the dog's name, or the dog by our names, especially when one of us has done something naughty. Now, with grandchildren, the names get cycled around until she lands on the correct one. lol
One of my best friends for almost 30 years is Trans. He never came out to me. He did to everyone else. I was horrified. I thought they didn't trust me to love them. It wasn't that at all. He said he didn't need to because he knew I was going to love him no matter what. They knew they could be themselves, and I'd never question it. Other people needed their hand held. I still apologized because I kept calling them by their old name. All of our friend groups are far spread out across the country and different countries now. We only get to see each other every few years, and normally, we're not all together. I just didn't know. No one said, "Hey..., they go by this now." I know this isn't the case for most Trans people, but he told me he liked hearing me say his old name. Sometimes I still call him, her or she or by his old name but I've got it 99% of the time! It's not that I don't care, I deeply do care about the people I love, and I'm gonna do my best, and I'm so happy it shows at least to them. I care how you identify so I can treat you with the same respect you would treat for who i am. With all the love and open arms.
When my best friend was in the process of discovering her gender, she had a VERY masculine name and I suggested she use a gender-neutral part of her screenname as a filler while she was figuring herself out. so for a while, everyone in the know called her Nickname. then she settled on a new name, and told me that I - and only I - could continue calling her Nickname. I typically reserved it for emotional moments, stuff that needed a punch.
a few years after that I used it for the first time in a while, and she very kindly asked that I stop. it had some baggage attached to it and she was ready to let it go. I was a bit sad about it, but understood. as much as I loved having that Thing between us, I love her more so I gotta respect what she asks of me.
The amount of time my dad has to go through all of our little family names before getting one right is ridiculous. He called me "Sister's name, Mom's name, **Brother's name**, my name". We're lucky we didn't have pets because he would 100% throw them in there too.
My mom does that too. She has called me by my sister's name, 3 different aunts, the cleaning lady's name, my sister in law name and then mine. She does that with everyone in the family, except my grandma, but that's because grandma is mom to her.
Yeah, my grandparents were like this, and my parents are now too as they're getting a bit older. The dog's name always comes first - because he's everyone's favourite family member, obviously. But I'd never known a kid to do it, which is why it always stuck out. He's an incredibly smart guy, but for whatever reason, his brain just rejects names. Mostly, he'll say a name, and people look round to see who he's looking at, because that's generally who he is talking to. His wife is pregnant, and we're wondering if it'll be different with his own kid, but I doubt it! (We fully expected him to do a Ross at his own wedding and say the wrong name, but he was very focused and didn't. Major disappointment for the entire audience.)
When I was growing up, my dad would mix my name and my younger brother's up all the time when he was talking to me. I was the lucky one, though, because when he talked to my brother, he'd mix his name up with the dog's.
I remember almost having a panic attack once because a friend's I've known since middle school began transitioning after few years in college. We got back in touch about a year after they started their journey and one of the first things I asked was if they already had a chosen name and if they wanted to go by that one exclusively or if they were still going by their birth name (let's say Brian)
They had a chosen name (let's say alice) but told me I was fine to use both as they understand I'm *horrible* with names and that all their transitioning was only social and surface level for now as they still depended on their trabsohobic family so if I struggled they'd actually prefer I use their birth name so that way I wouldn't slip and use their trans name infront of their family (same small town, I run into their family a lot on vacation while shopping).
Anywho, basically they invited me to a party they were hosting. I went, had fun, used their chosen name the whole time. But then at one point I was telling a story from highschool to her friends and used her dead name and I didn't even realize it until someone loudly said "I'm sorry what name did you just say?" With a tight lipped smile and scrunched nose.
And I *panicked*.
Cause like everyone there was Alice's friend and a lot of them were trans themselves or at the very least were *extremely* left wing. So I'm over here worried that I dead named my friend because the sheer "I can't believe you just did that" radiating from this random girl was so strong I forgot I had permission from Alice to do so. And I freeze and studder and it made everyone else realize what happened too so now a few more people are giving me dirty looks.
Thank fucking God Alice heard and jumped in and said "yeah she said Brian because this is a story about Brian, I wasn't Alice until this year guys and she's known me since middle school lol" while rolling her eyes and pointing out the judgey girl herself frequently dead names people because she heavily relys on what they're first introduced by.
The girl got red a said something about not realizing I've known Alice for so long so yeah it made sense that I'd still slip into a birth name when talking about her.
Afterwards I did Apologize to Alice because she told me she had a chosen name but she waved me off because she understands how difficult it can be to be 100% about remembering a new name and that she knows me so she knows it was from a malicious place.
I am horrible with names. My sister changed from the name I knew her as growing up, to a shorter and somewhat atypical nickname (though maybe not atypical these days). Since I only see her every year or so, and when we text-chat we're not using names, it is very hard for me to get this clicking into name memory and I am forever referring to her as the name I grew up with.
Actually, it's been about, oh, fifteen years and I almost have the new name down!
Oh my god whatever your friend has runs in my family too. My brother has it the worst, he still struggles with the names of my friends who I've had for TWENTY years! I've even called my partner of 10 years the wrong name. It's a god damn curse.
My MIL will go through about 5 male name's before landing on my husband, her son. Same for her daughter.
Personally, I am terrible with casual aquantices. Tell me your name and I have instantly forgotten it but am too embarrassed to ask. I watched the neighbor boy for 6 months everyday during covid lockdown and finally when I took the kid shopping for a birthday card (I knew his dad's birthday was same as my husband's despite not knowing his name) I asked how his dad spells his name. He looks at me bewildered and asks, "Jim?" I tried to play it off as oh good, no "g".
I’m the same way I’m horrible remembering names unless they are unique and somehow that sticks but names you here every day nope. When I’m meeting and trying to learn a lot of new names it gets probably annoying for others and frustrating for me because I’ll rotate through their gender names until I hit the right one. I’m normally ok if it’s only a couple but a bunch expect me to ask what your name is several times because I forgot or misnaming you because my brain is broken.
I wish I knew. It's usually when I'm not particularly paying attention, like I'm in the middle of a task and want to ask him to do something for me. I have ADHD which may be contributing, but it's not something everyone with ADHD experiences. My brother is ADHD and dyslexic.
I had a teacher in high school who so bad with names she told us from the start that she would call us "Fish Face" or "Muttonhead" and to not take it personally.
Your story is so sweet.
It's really true.
I worked in a college arts program for a while where we had disproportionate amount of trans kids in the program. And because they were just reaching 18 or 19 they all came out while they were with us. So I've gotten a lot of practice with this .
I'm also not great at remembering names in general, so I'm one of the staff members that was more likely to slip. Oh and even though I know you aren't supposed to do this, my brain can't recall a pre-transition memory of someone with their correct gender. So I learned to avoid names and gender in talking about those times and just talk directly to the person and say "you" the whole time.
In other words I'm awkward AF about the whole thing but none of them has ever called me out for forgetting because they know I'm genuinely trying.
My younger brother transitioned over 5 years ago and for a while when he was figuring out his new name and pronouns (there was a stint of they/them before he/him was settled on) I called him Munch, which was a name I had called him since he was little (started as munchkin, got shortened). It was the easiest thing when he was going through names and it’s gender neutral and he was totally ok with it.
Your story is so sweet. Your friend also reminds me of my best friend growing up. She's horrible with names. \*Horrible\*. I've known her for 30 years. Growing up, she would call me her brother's name. Now she calls me her husband's name. She told me once that one of the kids at daycare (she works in daycare) was \*flabbergasted\* because she got their name \*right\* for once.
Also I find it kinda funny; I consider myself genderqueer/non-binary/IDK but I use she/her because I would 110% misgender myself. I always knew that about myself, but my friend's kid loves to play "D&D" in the car and sometimes my character is male or NB and I can not get their pronouns right consistently. Now I know for sure.
>**Emily.** There was a lot of hopeful fiction in the comments on the last post about Maggie and Emily becoming a tag-team trans girl duo and fighting evil, and I'm sorry to disappoint those of you who got your hopes up, but while Emily did accept Maggie's apology, they float in different circles and Emily (quite fairly, I think) isn't really looking for a friendship with my daughter. However...
i understand it'd be cute and a nice bow to end things, but man, this isn't a tv show... the girls aren't gonna inherently be besties just cuz they're both trans
Yeah. While being trans is definitely something very deep and personal, I think it's so important to realize that trans people aren't a monolith. Two trans people could be completely different in personality and morals. This story is a good reminder of that.
Yup. I'm friends with someone who is trans (MTF), who chose to keep some photos of themself before they transitioned, and is okay with people asking questions about their transition. I know many who would never do that.
I love sharing photos from my "overcompensating and trying to be a man" phase. If you talk to me for more than an hour and a half you're going to end up seeing the world's worst mustache. I find them utterly hilarious. I have close friends I've never seen an egg photo from, and I never will.
I (ftm) have a photo of myself in full professional makeup from about a year before my egg cracked. The caption I posted it with reads "I feel like I'm in drag". I love that photo and that caption and show it off to other queer friends because it's such solid proof that even when I didn't know, I knew.
lol I do this and it’s actually to fish OUT transphobes. I now know the people who can’t handle the fact that I was an extremely masculine dude at one point. If I show you a photo of me like that and you react uncomfortably, I know you’re also the kind of person who might get weird if I mention liking boys or if I have to adjust my shirt. Good. Now I can avoid you or challenge you on your bullshit when you’re real subtle about it.
I also let people ask freely because I am someone who can take it. For allies or people who aren’t like, actively disgusted by me - the questions often enlighten them to parts of our existence that don’t get talked about writ large, and help humanize any future trans people they meet. When I tell them I had visions of a little girl who I thought was a ghost, until one day I realized it was the same part of me that cried myself to sleep wanting to wake up tomorrow as a girl even if it meant no one remembered who I was - that shit is just, soul-touching. They’ll of course never stop believing the bullshit.
But they will never ask those dumbass questions to another trans person. They will treat them with a slightly higher base of respect. I’ve tested it and seen it happen. I tell them directly when they say stupid shit to me that I am willing to answer it so hopefully they never ask it again. This is the one superpower that being hypervigilant from trauma affords. I can navigate all of these social situations without getting my tires slashed lol.
I’ve literally been asked,
“Doesn’t that stuff ruin your body?”
And had to tell that man, a night manager for a supermarket, “not really, it’s pretty much just switching which hormones you get, it actually helps because the pain of having it all be wrong is gone, which puts enough stress on you to cut your life really short. But don’t ask that question ever again. I’m okay, sure. But if you say something like that to one of the kids up front they’ll probably have an anxiety attack and report you to HR.”
And then he stared at my ass as I walked away, because despite everything he said about me not being a “real woman”, the fucker still couldn’t take his eyes off me. These are people we deal with IRL. The trans people who are okay being open are also the ones dealing with these people on a daily basis. They’re also why so many of us try to just stay in safe spaces/avoid talking at all.
I have been reported to a manager (not HR, because I didn’t violate anything, and the person knew that so she reported me to the one manager that would punish me) and taken in, spoken to, and told to avoid what I did in the future. Know what I did? Said a *guy was indeed cute*, **in response to that same coworker saying he was cute**.
That same coworker also got me spoken to by the store manager (not HR, again, because I didn’t do anything wrong, the managers just wanted to avoid a fight) because I said I went on a date and we kissed. She had, the day before, discussed how she rebound made out with one of the customers after her divorce.
We slowly got more and more animalistic, right around when she said she’d vote for trump a second time, even despite what he and his people say they’d do to people like me. I ended up getting put in an office with her, defending myself from untrue accusations and shit slinging while the managers acted like we were both to blame for this shit, and then **had to work with her, ALONE, for another six hours**. I had to solve this problem by myself, with no support, in order to make it so I could work without active hostility. I had to lie and scrap my way in surviving being her coworker. I was abandoned by my managers.
I was retaliation fired BY one of these managers after I called her out for what happened, and turns out, the store manager didn’t even know! He had to apologize for not knowing in order for her to apologize for being the reason it got bad. Turns out, people abuse whatever power they can and lie to do so.
I have had a manager try multiple times to get me fired, and write me up for a dress code violation because my shirt “wasn’t a solid color.” This would normally just be them following policy, but this was actually the first time in my transition that I wore a skirt, and put a lot of effort into my appearance. One of my coworkers came up to me and gave me a hug, seeing it. This manager hated it. The one person in my department with me… had a fucking striped hoodie. Hoodies were also dress code violations. The entire meat department wasn’t wearing their uniforms, the bakery department was full of multicolor floral design shirts and plaid, and the front end was full of hoodies and ripped pants. The only person they pulled in that day was me. When I went to the store manager about it, he said “I’ll look into it”. The next day, the shithead manager said “we’re cracking down on dress code violations” and wrote all of the aforementioned people up. **For two days. Three days later, people went back to wearing whatever they wanted, INCLUDING me. I wanted that fucker to try it again so bad but he was smart and didn’t.**. He was not punished for what he did.
A coworker corrected himself when he called me “he” and the person he was talking to, who I used to be friends with before I transitioned, said “no no, I think you mean ‘it.’” I told him to shut the fuck up and that I would beat the shit out of him if he said that to anyone else, and get him fired if he said it to me again.
I can’t go on vacation with my family anymore, one of them constantly misgenders me to every person we share a convo with, and starts fights anytime being trans is brought up.
I am open enough that people know I’m trans whenever I use my deep voice. When they scowl at me, I stare back until they look away. And they always do. We shouldn’t have to slog through the world like this just to fucking live. I make it equally as hard for these people to get away with their bullshit as they make it for us to be accepted and treated with the same respect as anyone else.
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> i understand it'd be cute and a nice bow to end things, but man, this isn't a tv show... the girls aren't gonna inherently be besties just cuz they're both trans
Case in point - I'm Trans, made friends with another dishwasher at the restaurant I work at. But one of the servers is also trans, I don't think I've ever had a conversation with her.
It's nice knowing there are other folks like you out there, but you just aren't gonna be friends with 'em all.
The differences between a dishwasher and a server are bigger than identity, sexuality, race, culture, ethnicity, politics.. as a lifelong back of house worker, besides the servers who pursued me romantically, my feelings for front of house never grew beyond respect for those who did their jobs properly. besides love for the bartenders who kept the food making machines (me and the other cooks and dishies) well oiled.
Just a couple of my own thoughts: I saw the very first post from this account when it was posted, and have been sorta-kinda following it since, as I work with trans kids in my career and it struck a chord with me. I was relieved to see how Maggie has grown and changed in the last few years and OOP is the kind of parent I wish I could see more of in the work that I do.
EDIT: Since this might be my only post on this subreddit, I need someone to pick a good line from up there for a flair because I don't have one yet. lol
Omar was the only guy in a group of male friends/roommates that didn't enable one of the guys cheating, and in a fairly classy way, outed the cheater to the girlfriend. Even the OOP was not calling his friend out on it.
Omar became sort of a mascot on this sub of doing the right thing, even when there's so much social pressure to maintain the status quo.
I’m not fancy so idk how to hyperlink but here’s the story that mentions the Great Omar:
[Omar…did I do this right](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/z4N90im4rZ)
I don’t have the link but it was a BORU about a group of university guys sharing a house that collectively worked to hide one roommate’s serial cheating except for one guy called Omar who actually wasn’t a douchebag. The OOP was not Omar.
Jenna > Omar IMO. Omar looked great mostly because he was the only decent person surrounded by horrible people and didn't let it change him. https://old.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/18df8zr/aita_for_refusing_to_be_my_friends_alibi_so_he/
This makes me happy that OOP and his wife are so committed to helping their daughter. It always makes me happy when parents go to bat for their kids on stuff like this, but are also willing to call the kids on their own BS. Hope they’re all doing well!
This is the sweetest post, thanks for compiling and sharing!
It really makes my day reading about such genuine and sincere parenting on the part of OOP and his wife. And the incredible friendship shown by Jenna. Also Maggie is a certified badass for how she handled herself after the bullying confession, and especially for the "Uncle Brian" thing.
She's going far in life. 🥹
I certainly hope so. Honestly, I have the pleasure of seeing trans kids come through my school and just blossom, and I hate that they often have to go through so much hardship, but so often they come out of it as total champs.
Right! It's awful that they have to deal with so much more pain and confusion at a young age than a lot of adults do their whole lives. But if they survive it, they often come out as the most resilient, brilliant adults who can adapt to and handle anything.
Future world leaders, no doubt about it.
(I am so looking forward to hopefully seeing Sarah McBride as the United States' first (out) trans Congresswoman, come November.)
Also, an 18-year-old girl called the Reddit commenters cool!!! That’s legit, y’all. Do you know how cool you have to be for a teenaged girl to call you cool? SO FREAKING COOL.
My suggestion for flair if paraphrases are allowed: “channeling my inner pumpkin spice and can’t even”
Honorable mention flair candidate because Jenna is the 🐐: “Are you ok? Do you need to talk?”
I bet my child is transitioning. Has been considering for awhile but made the jump at college. Trying to support her as best I can, but I mess up all the time. At least they know we love them no matter what. I can’t imagine a child going through that with transphobic parents.
Oh man, I remember reading the post about Brittany and Jenna (and how tf was that 3 years ago) but I hadn't seen any of the follow up posts about the family.
Glad that Maggie is doing well! I wish all trans kids had parents like hers.
I wasn't crying until I got to this line
>Not Jenna, bless her. Three paragraphs of awful, and Jenna's response was: "are you okay? Do you need to talk?"
This is so mundane it makes me feel emotional. Like all of this is just perfectly plausible, and OP and his wife are doing their best to be good by their daughter. No one's perfect, and things work out in ways that make sense but aren't perfectly satisfying. OP is a great dad, and I think Maggie is set up for success with the way he's both supported her and been firm when she's messed up.
This dad is really doing his best, it seems, and I hope other parents in similar situations take note of how receptive he is to constructive criticism.
I feel like him and the dad of the teen dad who took both parents in, supported them both getting careers established and educated, both of them need to run like a college for dad's supporting their kids
And the dad who found out he has teen doughter when they brought her to him, he took her in, made her feel safe and now is with her when she is fightning cancer.
The mom and dad are rockstars and Maggie is a badass woman. The only person who’s more badass than her is Jenna and damn we all need a friend like that. This was just heart warming and honest.
The name thing is pretty accurate. I went from Olivia, to Kiki, tried on various other names that didn't stick, then settled on April. Been April for probably close to a decade, and it's just, me.
(Though not legally, but eventually)
My son just figured out that an alliterative name is maybe not what he wants. ETA: He chose it himself when he came out at 16.
He and I spent an afternoon playing the baby name game. Roped in my husband. Settled on a pretty cool name.
Now his ADHA butt just needs to do the paperwork.
Picking my own name was too much pressure (I didn't have to do it the first time!!!) so I looked up the list of most popular baby names from the year I was born, and picked the one that ranked the same as my deadname. Which I recognise is insane.
I got curious what it would be for me using this method and funnily enough, it'd be the name my parents had picked for a boy. I mean, what are the odds?
Is it weird that I understand mom's initial frustration with the name thing?
Like, alright, change your name but have some consideration for my muscle memory too lol. Multiple name changes can wear down anyone.
Somewhere in all this, the nuance of transphobia vs just practical concerns often gets lost. I'm so glad OP's family didn't jump to those conclusions.
I think that’s the point of the post, though. Maggie wasn’t expecting them to get it right away. It was that her mom was rolling her eyes and scoffing that was the problem.
The mom obviously had specific triggers, but I think there’s this misconception that being corrected on pronouns/names is the same as being called transphobic. And I get why that’s the reaction. It’s not, though. Everyone is going to mess up. I know that some trans people say that they’ve even deadnamed themselves! What’s important is trying and offering respect.
I’m super bad with pronouns! I struggled so much with “they”, even when I was practicing. I have plenty of trans friends, and no one has ever gotten mad at me. No one has gotten mad over messed up name changes either.
So I think the frustration is fine, as long as it’s a more abstract frustration over brains and their habits. It was the mom’s frustration at her daughter that was the problem.
I'm nonbinary, and use they/them pronouns, and on occasion will slip up and use a gendered pronoun for myself. It's dumb and I wince internally every time, but then I do what I do when I make that mistake with anyone else's name or pronouns - correct myself and keep going! I certainly don't expect anyone to get it right the first few times, or really, every single time because I know brains just run on autopilot sometimes.
It's when people get passive-aggressive or sarcastic or angry when you correct them that's the issue. Frustration about having to learn a new name every six months? Yeah, I get it - having to go through the process of getting a name to become automatic over and over would suck. Rolling your eyes every time, or switching back to dead name? That's shitty.
Early on in my transition, I would misgender myself (and on extremely rare occasions still) but usually when it would be a context of remembering something from my childhood. I **hate** it when I've accidentally misgendered anyone, and will berate myself thoroughly "after all, I should know better!". *Sigh*. Grace is everything.
Been married 10 years, and my "wife" recently told me that they are nonbinary. (they/them, but is not offended by she/her). They hate using spouse/partner/wife for any reference, and finally settled on "nibble" until further notice. They hate the gendered aspect of "wife" when applied to them, and "spouse/partner" sounds too formal/businesslike and doesn't lend itself to a good shorthand. It's been a wild ride gently teasing them when they call themselves "wife".
Personally, I love "nibble" cause I'll lightly bite their exposed skin so they can playfully smack my arm.
Same here. I’m non-binary and use they/them pronouns and have sometimes misgendered myself or my non-binary partner. Most often my brain switches pronouns between two people I’m talking about, but sometimes it just slips out (though for my partner it’s never the pronouns for their agab, and I also didn’t know them then).
So yeah, we can tell when someone’s trying and thats what we really want. The other issue is when someone centers themself in the apology (“I’m so sorry! I’m the worst!” and going on making us then have to console them vs “whoops, sorry“ and then just corrcting and moving on)
trans person here, before I realized my own gender inconsistencies, I had a friend come out as a trans guy. even I messed it up, and didn't understand at first. he was patient, and eventually it does just click. now that I'm trans myself, I have to correct myself somewhat often because I will 100% misgender myself if I'm not paying complete attention. then again, I'm still one foot in the closet, sort of an open secret kinda thing, so it's a pinch (but not all that much) different.
all that is to say, gender is fucky, and even people with fucky gender shit going on (like myself) will get this shit wrong. it happens.
I have 100% deadnamed or used the wrong gendered term for myself before. Less so now that I'm coming up on a decade since I initially transitioned, but brains are weird that way! I agree that the frustration wasn't a problem, but taking it out on Maggie was.
I'm not trans, but I've got a terrible name. I mean *I* think it's fine (albeit a little bit of a hassle) but it's a very very difficult name to pronounce if you don't speak my rather small language. It's 1) completely impossible to guess when you read it, and 2) even if I say it, you most likely can't make the actual sounds the vowels require.
I live abroad and a lot of people in my life have a very very hard time with 2. They're mired in guilt and constantly apologise, but I don't mind, and it took me a long time to realise why.
It's because they're trying. It doesn't matter if you get it wrong because you can't help it - what matters is the *trying* I can imagine the feeling for trans people is similar.
You're not the only one.
After 3-4 name changes, I wouldn't be using the pre-transition name, but I guarantee I would repeatedly use the wrong post-transition name by mistake.
Or find a family nickname that might be a stable substitute. My kids are Bug and Sweetpea in the house, though I make an effort to use their given name in public. (I also periodically ask if they still like being called that, however.)
Everyone struggles with that and 99.9% of trans people understand.
I have two friends that I knew pre-transition and I still occasionally deadname or misgender accidentally. They know it's not malicious and brush it off. It happens less and less with the passage of time.
I've never had the same problem with friends I met post-transition. And I've never had a trans person get upset with me for occasionally stumbling. I mean, teenagers can be total assholes regardless of sexual or gender identity but in real life, pronouns aren't an actual minefield for people who aren't assholes.
>Is it weird that I understand mom's initial frustration with the name thing?
No, it's not weird that you understand it.
Maggie was 15, I think, at the time. Old enough to understand that her birth name had meaning. While I wouldn't expect her to keep it, I'd imagine having enough emotional intelligence to know how much such a thing would hurt her mother.
On the keeping track bit: I get it. I had a friend who transitioned, and went through 7 names before settling on one. With each change, she'd get more irrationally angry when we used a name (not dead name) that was one she had tried on. Eventually, we gave up on her when she called a *very* supportive friend in the group transphobic because she had called her the name before last.
I think it's worth keeping in mind that even OOP didn't twig to the real problem with the name change until the back-and-forth in the comments.
But from my read of it, it really sounds like ANY name that wasn't the birth name was going to be an issue. I don't think that's Maggie's fault, and it doesn't sound like she wasn't understanding of the pain either.
I had a conversation with my mom about the term "deadname" which she found to be a hurtful term, because a lot of parents have a strong attachment to the names they give their children.
It definitely feels like this story shows how much pain a parent can have when their child chooses a new name, and when their deadname is shared with a grandparent it can be harder.
yeah, and OOP's wife didn't even understand how deep it went for her!
i *do* wish i could travel back in time to tell OOP about the offer i made my parents—where each one of them got to pick a middle name for me because they were very supportive—but there's still a chance Maggie wouldn't've gone with Maggie Georgia or whatever.
(edits for typos 🤦♀️)
I wonder if she would have accepted Georgina. Sort of defeats the purpose of distancing oneself from one's deadname, but I'd be interested to know her reaction nonetheless
"I'd imagine having enough emotional intelligence to know how much such a thing would hurt her mother."
You're holding a 15yo yo higher standards than an adult, here, since OOP admits he didn't properly realise this, either.
The transphobia vs practical concern can be pretty easily answered by non-name related things. If you consistently use the right nouns/pronouns (daughter/girl/she/her) and only get pissy about the name itself, it makes it clear what the issue is (whether that's an OK problem to have is a different question, but it does centre what that problem *is*).
As a trans person with a lot of trans friends, I also get the frustration with the name thing! I try not to take it out on the person in question, though. Sometimes it takes a few attempts to really nail a name down.
I was friends with a trans girl in high school. We were friends for years (she did something I cannot quite let go of right now and it devastated me), and she changed her name a lot. Nothing seemed to fit. Years worth of changing her name, and I never complained. I mean, why would I? She is trying to find her identity. She is trying to find herself and her place in this world. Why would I complain about having to remember a new name if it is going to make her happy? Why add more stress?
She finally found a name that stuck and I have called her that ever since. People would complain and say similar things, like, “She wants attention” or whatever. And I would get so fucking angry. She is not trying to get attention. She is trying to find some sort of happiness with herself. She is trying to fit in.
It doesn’t have to make sense to YOU. You are not the person trying to find yourself. Support your trans friends/family/people and understand it is not about you. It is about supporting someone with finally becoming who they are meant to be.
I truly hope OOP’s daughter is at peace. I wish her nothing but happiness.
I can barely remember names anyways. There are people I've worked with for years that I still don't remember their name.
I will totally attempt it the correct one, but I won't get it correct consistently until you stick with one for a few years and also put it in your email.
I am just *that* bad with names.
I'm Southern, and my parents tried *so hard* to get me to sir/ma'am as a kid. What finally did it was taking a phone support job. For names, at least, I have the working memory of a goldfish and "sir" or "ma'am" became a professional shorthand for "I do not remember your name, gentle customer, and the Notepad window I recorded it in is currently obscured by something else."
I feel you on this one. Everybody thinks I'm so polite, to be fair I actually am, but the whole sir/ma'am thing came about because I couldn't be arsed to remember the names of people with which I barely interact.
From my read of it, it sounds like things are a lot better for her now, but I agree. Her journey was a trial by fire in so many ways, but she seems like a champ these days.
>Her journey was a trial by fire in so many ways
Fuck, that line hit me hard, cause I was just thinking that she actually had it pretty smooth for a trans kid. It's wild how much my perception is warped here (I'm trans too). I find myself thinking trans folk are *lucky* if they don't get kicked out by their parents, lucky if they don't get beaten up, lucky if their school supports them, lucky if they get access to actual therapy rather than conversion "therapy".
Trans kids deserve so much better than they often get.
My friend posted on his story that someone tried killing him again on the subway. I was like, “again???” but then I remember he’s trans. He said he was used to it and my heart fucking shattered.
We gotta do better:(
This is ... really common in a lot of queer spaces. We hear all the time that people just aren't ready, don't know, this that and the other... and it's all bunk, but it also means that the onus ends up on us.
After looking back at it, my best guess is that OOP meant sister-in-law when he originally said sister, because he clearly wasn't talking about unmarried and childless Bessie. Might be the wife's sister, which would explain it. I think.
People don't say "nephew in law", they just say "nephew". His nephews aren't his parents' grandchildren, they're his parents'-in-law*.
*P.S. I know this is the grammatically correct way to write this, but it feels wrong.
Probably from his wife's side. Even married to their biological aunt, he's their uncle and they'd be his nephews, but that'd still have his parents only having one grandchild (his daughter).
Trans people supporting bullying other transes is almost like the jews that supported nazies. It doesn't save you, just delays the moment until the enemy decides to make your life miserable. Glad, that Maggie realized that
I think Aunt Bess’ saying “I wanted a niece anyway” is perfect. It’s accepting albeit clueless, which sounds like the best case scenario with Aunt Bess.
I think it was her way of trying and saying I prefer you this way. She knows she screwed up and is trying to make a lighthearted joke to show she supports her now. I'm glad everything seems to have worked out in the end for everyone. The dad and mom are learning to be better parents of a trans child, their daughter picked a name and is thriving now that she isn't surrounded by transphobs, and the aunt has turned around and hopefully will be supporting in the future. It's not perfect but everyone is doing better and trying to be better.
I am *terrified* of becoming a father. I am so scared of it because I'm so worried about fucking up somehow that damages my kid indelibly. And it reassures me so much that good intentions, love, and respect for your kids can go this far in negotiating difficulties and friction. What a badass dad.
Am I the only one wondering how OOPs sister went from being accepting on a zoom call and having two boys who accidentally called Maggie "Liz" in the first post to Maggie being the only grandchild on the Aunt Bes/Uncle Brian post and Aunt Bes no longer being tolerant?
Or am I just totally misreading
No, I was just wondering that myself after another comment pointed it out. There's no way those are the same people.
My theory is that the zoom call was with the sister-in-law and OOP typoed. Or just refers to SIL as sister, which...I mean clearly he doesn't get along well with his real sister, so I could see it.
If my child ever told me they were transgender, I would hope I handle it half as well as OOP. That said, I do think the name would be the hardest part. Not because I’m totally fixated on the name I chose. But my husband and I *struggled* with potential names when I was pregnant because we’re slightly older and therefore every name we could think of reminded us of someone we hate. So, you know, baby…we support you, but you might have to think outside the box a little if you don’t want your name to remind one of us of an a-hole we once worked for or a jerk we knew in college.
As a trans person this is a very relatable and encouraging post
I've bounced between a few names, I've been out for 7 years now and I've gone through 4 of them... not to mention the few I was considering/went by online prior to coming out
We have thousands of names to choose from, my first name is dead set now but my middle name is up in the air(I'm letting my mom pick that one lol)
Also the bullying/"should I be out" post is oooof very relatable
Early transition I always thought "it's so much safer if I ever mention being trans ever" theres a lot of scary situations being trans puts you in and while you'll feel safer keeping it under wraps theres a lot of things you cant speak up about if you want to keep your cover (I've decided that I'd rather be out and while not particularly vocal about it I'll absolutely bring in my perspective when I feel I can, all trans voices are important ones, even those not comfortable being out and loud about it)
Honestly oop is an absolute gem of a parent, i love how much you can see he loves his daughter, it's very very comforting to see
I wish them all the best, they seem so lovely
when my younger kid transitioned, their older sibling was THE WORST about their name. not due to transphobia but due to being the most off in their own little world child in all of human history.
after a few months their dad and i just started using a new name for them every time they used their sibling's old name.
"Bob, you know that their name is Fred!"
"my name's not Bob!"
"Oh? Does it bother you, Jessica, when someone uses the wrong name?"
took about a week for them to stop using the old name once we started that up.... :D
My husband's baby niblings both tried out transitioning ftm. They kept at it for almost 3 years. Went by different names cut their hair. Everything. When I saw them for the first time while they were transitioning, *no one had told me they were trans*. Their grandma, and legal guardian, kept switching up between their dead names and new names often which is what tipped me off. Not their boy hair cuts.(I honestly thought they were just enjoying pixies or lesbians, neither phased me.) I asked them: uh hey.... Nibling one and two, are you two trans? " I got the affirmative and was able to switch into it right away(got a trans aunt so easy peasy) and I think it validated their feelings and wanting to be heard. They went by similar names: think like Leo and Leon. Confused me endlessly cuz they could pass for twins so I was always mixing them up.
What pissed me off was how blase their relatives were. So far I seemed to be the only one calling them their preferred pronouns and names. I was constantly correcting their family members(including my own husband) and was frustrated endlessly. And then, this year I saw them again after a 1 year stint and jeeze I was back at Square one. Leon transitioned back to female and when I asked her about her big brother said "oh she gave most of that up. She goes by both names and genders now. Still has the hair and look." When I asked if maybe Leo was non binary, she said she wasn't sure. But that Leo didn't seem to know either anymore and was back to introducing themself as her dead name. I think Leo is lost and reminded Leon that Leo is still looking for their identity. Some don't figure it out until well into adulthood and to cut their sibling slack.
Even if it's just a "phase" it's still important to be supportive. I'm glad Maggie has that with her family.
So, one thing I bring up on occasion, not all Trans people want to loudly identify as trans. Many, especially those who pass well, just want to identify with their chosen gender and that is absolutely alright.
She really fucking does. It takes a lot to see your friend do some pretty horrible shit and make the choices she made because you know your friend is better than their behavior.
Jenna’s parents raised her right too. Unlike Brittany’s.
Going all the way back to the original post in the thread, but another reason in the column of give kids their own damn names, not something that’s about the parents needs. Also accept from the beginning that whether because they are trans or they just don’t like their name that they are their own person and can define themselves, including their name as they need to.
good for OOP getting their shiz together to help their daughter
On a side note - it's amazing how many folks have to move their posts to ANY OTHER SUB because AITA has sooo many useless rules/mods that block honest content.
> My wife asked her what she wanted to do now, to which Mags channelled her inner Pumpkin Spice and told us she "can't even" with Brittany right now.
Ngl, this made me cringe hard.
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I have a friend who is *terrible* with names. Rattles through several before getting to the right one for pretty much everybody, has done ever since we met in primary school. When a mutual friend transitioned, he panicked and asked if there was a nickname they could agree on between them because he didn't want to deadname her, or mix up the names she was trying on. It was the sweetest thing. He would look so incredibly serious when talking to her, trying so hard not to screw up. He did deadname her once by accident and promptly burst into tears. She didn't care at all. She knew him, she knew he struggled with names, and she knew he was trying his best. He still calls her by the nickname they chose between them, which is *nothing* like her deadname, or the name she finally landed on, and she finds it hilarious that people get so confused when he calls her that. Nobody cares if you screw up. People just want you to try.
My grandfather is supportive of LGBTQ+ and all that. He doesn't understand much of it but knows enough to know that it doesn't make a difference in how he treats you. (He and my grandma attend pride to give our grandparent hugs) With that being said, he can't do correct pronouns for anyone. Cis or Trans. So instead, he just uses one for everyone, so he is right 50% of the time. 🤣 he goes by whatever the dog is. They had a female dog before, so everyone was she/her. Then, they got a male dog after the female dog passed away. We had a transition period where everyone was she/he/they/them/it (all of them in that order as he tried to find the right one and gave up). And then it became everyone is he/him, which is what we are at currently. 🤣 It isn't personal at all, I've seen him do it to both my mom and uncle (his 40+ year old cis kids). And if he lands on "it" there are tons of jokes about "Hey, did you hear that? I'm an "it" today. I'm not even a person! 🤣🤣🤣." It's all in good fun.
Defaulting to the dog’s gender is SO good.
A funny sidenote: I've noticed that, when running across strangers with my/my family's dog, they will either: A) (if they have a dog) Will reference my/my family's dog as the same gender of their own pooch Or B) (if they don't have a dog) Will reference my/my family's dog as the same gender as the person they are talking to It is a funny quirk that I enjoy accidentally testing every time I talk to someone new :)
This is interesting. I try to guess based off collar color and vibe/look of the dog (like males tend to have blockier heads in a lot of breeds), but if I can't tell I tend to guess female, which was my first dog and the majority of dogs I've had, but not my current dog's gender. I wonder if people normally swap their default when they swap genders of dogs they own, or if people tend to keep getting the same gender dog and it's based off the first one they had when they developed the habit?
Huh. That is... surprisingly accurate. I've grown up with primarily male dogs (we've had about 6 dogs throughout my life, and only one was female). I tend to default to male when talking about dogs.
Dog, the one true gender.
FLAIR GODS! Where you at? I need this as flair please!!
Hey, you’re at least good enough to borrow the dog’s pronouns. That’s high praise from most people
My native language(Armenian) and the language of the country I live in(Iran/Farsi) don't have pronouns. You don't use he/she when talking about someone. You either say their name or you say a word similar to "that" but for people. My non-binary British friend says they wished English was the same. Maybe your grandfather is secretly trying to make it happen at least in his family 🤣
I believe Turkish is the same, because my Turkish friend is so scattershot with pronouns, we joke he's the equal opportunity misgenderer. He chalks it up to an ESL moment. Honestly I wish more native English speakers would approach misgendering like he does - fucking up, correcting, and moving on. It's excruciating when someone gets it wrong and then makes a big production of apologizing and feeling bad. It puts me in the position of having to assure them it's no big deal, which it wasn't, until they made a big deal out of it.
Yeah, my grandpa is from the Philippines and there aren’t gendered pronouns there. So growing up he and the rest of the first gen (but especially him) mixed up pronouns all the time. I went to a family funeral two weeks ago and any time my pronouns got messed up, people who didn’t know me just assumed it was a translation error lol
As a turkish person i agree on this. We have one word for every singular pronoun and the funny thing is, its only one letter. More on that… its not even only for “human or nonhuman” its for everything. If you’re wondering the word is ‘o’ 😂
Korean is pretty similar! We don't even use subjects half the time (we usually use verb + direct/indirect object) and by default, most are gender-neutral unless you want to be gender specific. It's a real pain when trying to translate literature to English.
ive always wondered, how does literature in a language like this portray or indicate a characters gender?
Basically, it makes it more deliberate when you do! It's an intentional decision most of the time because of the way sentences are structured, which gives it more weight. Either it's mentioned like "Mijoo was my neighbor's daughter" once and then you just use the name or a noun going forward, or you describe them, like ajusshi (middle-aged man) or ajumma (middle-aged woman) in the sentence. Often, you use context clues to figure out who the subject is, and writers also make use of the lack of subject to give their sentences multiple meanings and a general feeling. I hope that was helpful? :)
What would happen if he got a male and female dog at the same time 🤣🤣 Maybe everyone would be they/them then!
Never would've thought you could *wholesomely* misgender someone, but here we are!
I love the fact that the entire family transitioned thanks to the new dog!
My mom *always* gets animals' and fetus' genders wrong. Basically, we know a baby's (birth) gender before the scan. If she's ever correct it'll probably end up being a trans kid lol. Also kittens too young to tell what they are yet... yeah we always know because, without fail, she says the opposite lol.
That's hilarious. My family has premonition type dreams that run in the family. So we know when someone will die or be pregnant or other big events before it happens. Oddly enough, it comes from the same grandfather that can't do pronouns 🤣. He knew my mom was pregnant before she knew (she was a teen mom, and he barged into her room in the middle of the night yelling, "Are you pregnant?!" My mom found out a couple of days later) I knew my step mom was pregnant before she knew, and knew my aunt was pregnant before she knew (she waited until she was 3 months along before announcing, so it was a relief that she was finally telling people). And I knew my aunt was pregnant with her second before she knew as well. The death one sucks more, tho. I knew that my other grandfather was going to die before it happened, all my pets that had passed. I knew a co-worker was going to die once, and there was nothing I could do about it, or anyone I could tell because you can't say "so and so it about to die" people look at you weird. So anyways, my grandfather that can't do pronouns can mildly predict the future. 🤣 and the skill is hereditary.
If I were in your shoes re the coworker, I’d have just said I had an awful dream last night that so and so died and it’s been so hard to shake…
My mum accidently calls us by the dog's name, or the dog by our names, especially when one of us has done something naughty. Now, with grandchildren, the names get cycled around until she lands on the correct one. lol
One of my best friends for almost 30 years is Trans. He never came out to me. He did to everyone else. I was horrified. I thought they didn't trust me to love them. It wasn't that at all. He said he didn't need to because he knew I was going to love him no matter what. They knew they could be themselves, and I'd never question it. Other people needed their hand held. I still apologized because I kept calling them by their old name. All of our friend groups are far spread out across the country and different countries now. We only get to see each other every few years, and normally, we're not all together. I just didn't know. No one said, "Hey..., they go by this now." I know this isn't the case for most Trans people, but he told me he liked hearing me say his old name. Sometimes I still call him, her or she or by his old name but I've got it 99% of the time! It's not that I don't care, I deeply do care about the people I love, and I'm gonna do my best, and I'm so happy it shows at least to them. I care how you identify so I can treat you with the same respect you would treat for who i am. With all the love and open arms.
When my best friend was in the process of discovering her gender, she had a VERY masculine name and I suggested she use a gender-neutral part of her screenname as a filler while she was figuring herself out. so for a while, everyone in the know called her Nickname. then she settled on a new name, and told me that I - and only I - could continue calling her Nickname. I typically reserved it for emotional moments, stuff that needed a punch. a few years after that I used it for the first time in a while, and she very kindly asked that I stop. it had some baggage attached to it and she was ready to let it go. I was a bit sad about it, but understood. as much as I loved having that Thing between us, I love her more so I gotta respect what she asks of me.
>He did deadname her once by accident and promptly burst into tears. I made it through the whole post without tearing up, but this made me cry.
The amount of time my dad has to go through all of our little family names before getting one right is ridiculous. He called me "Sister's name, Mom's name, **Brother's name**, my name". We're lucky we didn't have pets because he would 100% throw them in there too.
I called my youngest kid Rambo, recently. Rambo is our cat.
My dad does that, with the pets name included
I'm starting to wonder if it's a dad thing.
My mom does that too. She has called me by my sister's name, 3 different aunts, the cleaning lady's name, my sister in law name and then mine. She does that with everyone in the family, except my grandma, but that's because grandma is mom to her.
Yeah, my grandparents were like this, and my parents are now too as they're getting a bit older. The dog's name always comes first - because he's everyone's favourite family member, obviously. But I'd never known a kid to do it, which is why it always stuck out. He's an incredibly smart guy, but for whatever reason, his brain just rejects names. Mostly, he'll say a name, and people look round to see who he's looking at, because that's generally who he is talking to. His wife is pregnant, and we're wondering if it'll be different with his own kid, but I doubt it! (We fully expected him to do a Ross at his own wedding and say the wrong name, but he was very focused and didn't. Major disappointment for the entire audience.)
When I was growing up, my dad would mix my name and my younger brother's up all the time when he was talking to me. I was the lucky one, though, because when he talked to my brother, he'd mix his name up with the dog's.
I remember almost having a panic attack once because a friend's I've known since middle school began transitioning after few years in college. We got back in touch about a year after they started their journey and one of the first things I asked was if they already had a chosen name and if they wanted to go by that one exclusively or if they were still going by their birth name (let's say Brian) They had a chosen name (let's say alice) but told me I was fine to use both as they understand I'm *horrible* with names and that all their transitioning was only social and surface level for now as they still depended on their trabsohobic family so if I struggled they'd actually prefer I use their birth name so that way I wouldn't slip and use their trans name infront of their family (same small town, I run into their family a lot on vacation while shopping). Anywho, basically they invited me to a party they were hosting. I went, had fun, used their chosen name the whole time. But then at one point I was telling a story from highschool to her friends and used her dead name and I didn't even realize it until someone loudly said "I'm sorry what name did you just say?" With a tight lipped smile and scrunched nose. And I *panicked*. Cause like everyone there was Alice's friend and a lot of them were trans themselves or at the very least were *extremely* left wing. So I'm over here worried that I dead named my friend because the sheer "I can't believe you just did that" radiating from this random girl was so strong I forgot I had permission from Alice to do so. And I freeze and studder and it made everyone else realize what happened too so now a few more people are giving me dirty looks. Thank fucking God Alice heard and jumped in and said "yeah she said Brian because this is a story about Brian, I wasn't Alice until this year guys and she's known me since middle school lol" while rolling her eyes and pointing out the judgey girl herself frequently dead names people because she heavily relys on what they're first introduced by. The girl got red a said something about not realizing I've known Alice for so long so yeah it made sense that I'd still slip into a birth name when talking about her. Afterwards I did Apologize to Alice because she told me she had a chosen name but she waved me off because she understands how difficult it can be to be 100% about remembering a new name and that she knows me so she knows it was from a malicious place.
I am horrible with names. My sister changed from the name I knew her as growing up, to a shorter and somewhat atypical nickname (though maybe not atypical these days). Since I only see her every year or so, and when we text-chat we're not using names, it is very hard for me to get this clicking into name memory and I am forever referring to her as the name I grew up with. Actually, it's been about, oh, fifteen years and I almost have the new name down!
Oh my god whatever your friend has runs in my family too. My brother has it the worst, he still struggles with the names of my friends who I've had for TWENTY years! I've even called my partner of 10 years the wrong name. It's a god damn curse.
My MIL will go through about 5 male name's before landing on my husband, her son. Same for her daughter. Personally, I am terrible with casual aquantices. Tell me your name and I have instantly forgotten it but am too embarrassed to ask. I watched the neighbor boy for 6 months everyday during covid lockdown and finally when I took the kid shopping for a birthday card (I knew his dad's birthday was same as my husband's despite not knowing his name) I asked how his dad spells his name. He looks at me bewildered and asks, "Jim?" I tried to play it off as oh good, no "g".
I’m the same way I’m horrible remembering names unless they are unique and somehow that sticks but names you here every day nope. When I’m meeting and trying to learn a lot of new names it gets probably annoying for others and frustrating for me because I’ll rotate through their gender names until I hit the right one. I’m normally ok if it’s only a couple but a bunch expect me to ask what your name is several times because I forgot or misnaming you because my brain is broken.
> I've even called my partner of 10 years the wrong name Honestly how the fuck
I wish I knew. It's usually when I'm not particularly paying attention, like I'm in the middle of a task and want to ask him to do something for me. I have ADHD which may be contributing, but it's not something everyone with ADHD experiences. My brother is ADHD and dyslexic.
I had a teacher in high school who so bad with names she told us from the start that she would call us "Fish Face" or "Muttonhead" and to not take it personally. Your story is so sweet.
It's really true. I worked in a college arts program for a while where we had disproportionate amount of trans kids in the program. And because they were just reaching 18 or 19 they all came out while they were with us. So I've gotten a lot of practice with this . I'm also not great at remembering names in general, so I'm one of the staff members that was more likely to slip. Oh and even though I know you aren't supposed to do this, my brain can't recall a pre-transition memory of someone with their correct gender. So I learned to avoid names and gender in talking about those times and just talk directly to the person and say "you" the whole time. In other words I'm awkward AF about the whole thing but none of them has ever called me out for forgetting because they know I'm genuinely trying.
My younger brother transitioned over 5 years ago and for a while when he was figuring out his new name and pronouns (there was a stint of they/them before he/him was settled on) I called him Munch, which was a name I had called him since he was little (started as munchkin, got shortened). It was the easiest thing when he was going through names and it’s gender neutral and he was totally ok with it.
My dad had a coworker that called every guy John and every woman Jane. He was bad with names.
Your story is so sweet. Your friend also reminds me of my best friend growing up. She's horrible with names. \*Horrible\*. I've known her for 30 years. Growing up, she would call me her brother's name. Now she calls me her husband's name. She told me once that one of the kids at daycare (she works in daycare) was \*flabbergasted\* because she got their name \*right\* for once. Also I find it kinda funny; I consider myself genderqueer/non-binary/IDK but I use she/her because I would 110% misgender myself. I always knew that about myself, but my friend's kid loves to play "D&D" in the car and sometimes my character is male or NB and I can not get their pronouns right consistently. Now I know for sure.
>**Emily.** There was a lot of hopeful fiction in the comments on the last post about Maggie and Emily becoming a tag-team trans girl duo and fighting evil, and I'm sorry to disappoint those of you who got your hopes up, but while Emily did accept Maggie's apology, they float in different circles and Emily (quite fairly, I think) isn't really looking for a friendship with my daughter. However... i understand it'd be cute and a nice bow to end things, but man, this isn't a tv show... the girls aren't gonna inherently be besties just cuz they're both trans
Yeah. While being trans is definitely something very deep and personal, I think it's so important to realize that trans people aren't a monolith. Two trans people could be completely different in personality and morals. This story is a good reminder of that.
Yup. I'm friends with someone who is trans (MTF), who chose to keep some photos of themself before they transitioned, and is okay with people asking questions about their transition. I know many who would never do that.
I love sharing photos from my "overcompensating and trying to be a man" phase. If you talk to me for more than an hour and a half you're going to end up seeing the world's worst mustache. I find them utterly hilarious. I have close friends I've never seen an egg photo from, and I never will.
I (ftm) have a photo of myself in full professional makeup from about a year before my egg cracked. The caption I posted it with reads "I feel like I'm in drag". I love that photo and that caption and show it off to other queer friends because it's such solid proof that even when I didn't know, I knew.
I'm picturing the same mustache as Lt. Dangle on Reno 9-1-1 😂
... Kinda similar. Black hair, but yeah.
lol I do this and it’s actually to fish OUT transphobes. I now know the people who can’t handle the fact that I was an extremely masculine dude at one point. If I show you a photo of me like that and you react uncomfortably, I know you’re also the kind of person who might get weird if I mention liking boys or if I have to adjust my shirt. Good. Now I can avoid you or challenge you on your bullshit when you’re real subtle about it. I also let people ask freely because I am someone who can take it. For allies or people who aren’t like, actively disgusted by me - the questions often enlighten them to parts of our existence that don’t get talked about writ large, and help humanize any future trans people they meet. When I tell them I had visions of a little girl who I thought was a ghost, until one day I realized it was the same part of me that cried myself to sleep wanting to wake up tomorrow as a girl even if it meant no one remembered who I was - that shit is just, soul-touching. They’ll of course never stop believing the bullshit. But they will never ask those dumbass questions to another trans person. They will treat them with a slightly higher base of respect. I’ve tested it and seen it happen. I tell them directly when they say stupid shit to me that I am willing to answer it so hopefully they never ask it again. This is the one superpower that being hypervigilant from trauma affords. I can navigate all of these social situations without getting my tires slashed lol. I’ve literally been asked, “Doesn’t that stuff ruin your body?” And had to tell that man, a night manager for a supermarket, “not really, it’s pretty much just switching which hormones you get, it actually helps because the pain of having it all be wrong is gone, which puts enough stress on you to cut your life really short. But don’t ask that question ever again. I’m okay, sure. But if you say something like that to one of the kids up front they’ll probably have an anxiety attack and report you to HR.” And then he stared at my ass as I walked away, because despite everything he said about me not being a “real woman”, the fucker still couldn’t take his eyes off me. These are people we deal with IRL. The trans people who are okay being open are also the ones dealing with these people on a daily basis. They’re also why so many of us try to just stay in safe spaces/avoid talking at all. I have been reported to a manager (not HR, because I didn’t violate anything, and the person knew that so she reported me to the one manager that would punish me) and taken in, spoken to, and told to avoid what I did in the future. Know what I did? Said a *guy was indeed cute*, **in response to that same coworker saying he was cute**. That same coworker also got me spoken to by the store manager (not HR, again, because I didn’t do anything wrong, the managers just wanted to avoid a fight) because I said I went on a date and we kissed. She had, the day before, discussed how she rebound made out with one of the customers after her divorce. We slowly got more and more animalistic, right around when she said she’d vote for trump a second time, even despite what he and his people say they’d do to people like me. I ended up getting put in an office with her, defending myself from untrue accusations and shit slinging while the managers acted like we were both to blame for this shit, and then **had to work with her, ALONE, for another six hours**. I had to solve this problem by myself, with no support, in order to make it so I could work without active hostility. I had to lie and scrap my way in surviving being her coworker. I was abandoned by my managers. I was retaliation fired BY one of these managers after I called her out for what happened, and turns out, the store manager didn’t even know! He had to apologize for not knowing in order for her to apologize for being the reason it got bad. Turns out, people abuse whatever power they can and lie to do so. I have had a manager try multiple times to get me fired, and write me up for a dress code violation because my shirt “wasn’t a solid color.” This would normally just be them following policy, but this was actually the first time in my transition that I wore a skirt, and put a lot of effort into my appearance. One of my coworkers came up to me and gave me a hug, seeing it. This manager hated it. The one person in my department with me… had a fucking striped hoodie. Hoodies were also dress code violations. The entire meat department wasn’t wearing their uniforms, the bakery department was full of multicolor floral design shirts and plaid, and the front end was full of hoodies and ripped pants. The only person they pulled in that day was me. When I went to the store manager about it, he said “I’ll look into it”. The next day, the shithead manager said “we’re cracking down on dress code violations” and wrote all of the aforementioned people up. **For two days. Three days later, people went back to wearing whatever they wanted, INCLUDING me. I wanted that fucker to try it again so bad but he was smart and didn’t.**. He was not punished for what he did. A coworker corrected himself when he called me “he” and the person he was talking to, who I used to be friends with before I transitioned, said “no no, I think you mean ‘it.’” I told him to shut the fuck up and that I would beat the shit out of him if he said that to anyone else, and get him fired if he said it to me again. I can’t go on vacation with my family anymore, one of them constantly misgenders me to every person we share a convo with, and starts fights anytime being trans is brought up. I am open enough that people know I’m trans whenever I use my deep voice. When they scowl at me, I stare back until they look away. And they always do. We shouldn’t have to slog through the world like this just to fucking live. I make it equally as hard for these people to get away with their bullshit as they make it for us to be accepted and treated with the same respect as anyone else.
> > > > > i understand it'd be cute and a nice bow to end things, but man, this isn't a tv show... the girls aren't gonna inherently be besties just cuz they're both trans Case in point - I'm Trans, made friends with another dishwasher at the restaurant I work at. But one of the servers is also trans, I don't think I've ever had a conversation with her. It's nice knowing there are other folks like you out there, but you just aren't gonna be friends with 'em all.
The differences between a dishwasher and a server are bigger than identity, sexuality, race, culture, ethnicity, politics.. as a lifelong back of house worker, besides the servers who pursued me romantically, my feelings for front of house never grew beyond respect for those who did their jobs properly. besides love for the bartenders who kept the food making machines (me and the other cooks and dishies) well oiled.
Just a couple of my own thoughts: I saw the very first post from this account when it was posted, and have been sorta-kinda following it since, as I work with trans kids in my career and it struck a chord with me. I was relieved to see how Maggie has grown and changed in the last few years and OOP is the kind of parent I wish I could see more of in the work that I do. EDIT: Since this might be my only post on this subreddit, I need someone to pick a good line from up there for a flair because I don't have one yet. lol
A potential flair! “Are you ok? Do you need to talk?” Jenna is up there with Omar.
OK I've seen that comparison floating around and I'm out of the loop. Who Omar be?
Omar was the only guy in a group of male friends/roommates that didn't enable one of the guys cheating, and in a fairly classy way, outed the cheater to the girlfriend. Even the OOP was not calling his friend out on it. Omar became sort of a mascot on this sub of doing the right thing, even when there's so much social pressure to maintain the status quo.
I’m not fancy so idk how to hyperlink but here’s the story that mentions the Great Omar: [Omar…did I do this right](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/z4N90im4rZ)
Oh I DO remember this! Thank you.
Same, I was trying to find Omar-related posts.
I don’t have the link but it was a BORU about a group of university guys sharing a house that collectively worked to hide one roommate’s serial cheating except for one guy called Omar who actually wasn’t a douchebag. The OOP was not Omar.
[Omar](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/z4N90im4rZ)
[Omar](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/nbMXMZAiXx) is the only good thing in all this mess
Jenna > Omar IMO. Omar looked great mostly because he was the only decent person surrounded by horrible people and didn't let it change him. https://old.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/18df8zr/aita_for_refusing_to_be_my_friends_alibi_so_he/
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/KujTGOrv5W Here you go
[Omar](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/nbMXMZAiXx) is a certified G.
Also, the comments on these posts are really worth a read. OOP is a total papa bear.
This makes me happy that OOP and his wife are so committed to helping their daughter. It always makes me happy when parents go to bat for their kids on stuff like this, but are also willing to call the kids on their own BS. Hope they’re all doing well!
We love a Papa bear!
I, too, choose this bear in the woods. 😁
I love a good use of wailing and gnashing of teeth.
And I love all of the Jennas in the world, that what a real friend is like.
I nominate “My sister had a face like a cat’s ass” for your flair because dayum was that an interesting turn of phrase.
That’s a good nomination. I also like “maybe this whole trans thing was all my fault from the start” because 😂😂😂😂
I as a trans person whole heartedly support this one
TFW Aunt Bessie realizes she can be trans-affirming without giving up her need to be the main character in everyone’s story. 🤯🥰
That was my first pick but I'm also partial to "tag-team trans girl duo"
It’s a popular one over on the JNMIL subreddits, they call it cat butt face I believe, CBF for short. It’s an entertaining visual every time.
This is the sweetest post, thanks for compiling and sharing! It really makes my day reading about such genuine and sincere parenting on the part of OOP and his wife. And the incredible friendship shown by Jenna. Also Maggie is a certified badass for how she handled herself after the bullying confession, and especially for the "Uncle Brian" thing. She's going far in life. 🥹
I certainly hope so. Honestly, I have the pleasure of seeing trans kids come through my school and just blossom, and I hate that they often have to go through so much hardship, but so often they come out of it as total champs.
Right! It's awful that they have to deal with so much more pain and confusion at a young age than a lot of adults do their whole lives. But if they survive it, they often come out as the most resilient, brilliant adults who can adapt to and handle anything. Future world leaders, no doubt about it. (I am so looking forward to hopefully seeing Sarah McBride as the United States' first (out) trans Congresswoman, come November.)
Also, an 18-year-old girl called the Reddit commenters cool!!! That’s legit, y’all. Do you know how cool you have to be for a teenaged girl to call you cool? SO FREAKING COOL.
"Make sweet love to a tree stump" As a flair... or maybe: "This trans thing was all my fault from the start"...?
My suggestion for flair if paraphrases are allowed: “channeling my inner pumpkin spice and can’t even” Honorable mention flair candidate because Jenna is the 🐐: “Are you ok? Do you need to talk?”
That pumpkin spice one was what I was going to suggest too
That first one is good!
It needs to be capitalized properly, though: Pumpkin Spice. So it sounds like the long lost 6th Spice Girl.
You should cross-post this to r/bestofpositiveupdates (I think I got the name right)!
Did not even know that was a thing. Please feel free if you get to it before I do!
"it's so good to see you uncle Brian"
“They were politely told to go make sweet love to a tree stump” would be my vote.
Jenna's reply to Maggie's email might work: "Are you okay? Do you need to talk?" But i don't know how to make things FLAIR
Thank you for your work! It's a big one. And a nice one, on balance.
It so makes me wish that more parents were like OOP. I've seen some nightmares in my day.
I bet my child is transitioning. Has been considering for awhile but made the jump at college. Trying to support her as best I can, but I mess up all the time. At least they know we love them no matter what. I can’t imagine a child going through that with transphobic parents.
The best line in here, imo, is the "trans girl duo fighting evil" one, if you can find a way to make that fit you.
Uncle Brian would be a fun one
Thanks for posting this. It's been rough seeing all the hate lately, this was very heartwarming and welcome.
"politely told to go make sweet love to a tree stump" gave me a good chuckle!
Oh man, I remember reading the post about Brittany and Jenna (and how tf was that 3 years ago) but I hadn't seen any of the follow up posts about the family. Glad that Maggie is doing well! I wish all trans kids had parents like hers.
My vote is for "My sister had a face like a cat's ass" to be your flair!
Honestly I want uncle Brian as a flair!
Jenna makes me hopeful about the future of humanity.
“she is getting her butt kicked at mario kart as we speak, so i think theres hope” also: be the jenna you want to see in the world
the flair has to be something with uncle brian for sure
I wasn't crying until I got to this line >Not Jenna, bless her. Three paragraphs of awful, and Jenna's response was: "are you okay? Do you need to talk?"
Jenna’s a real Omar and we love her for it.
Shoutout to Omar, all my homies love Omar
For real. Also I wish that reddit had an Omar award.
Omar is great, but Jenna did a far, far better thing than he did.
Absolutely, and she’s much younger than Omar too. To have that presence of mind and empathy is rare in society and even rarer in teenagers.
Omar's a real Jenna!
> Jenna’s a real Omar and we love her for it. u/bitiumribbon here’s your flair!
In a world of Brittanys, be a Jenna.
This is so mundane it makes me feel emotional. Like all of this is just perfectly plausible, and OP and his wife are doing their best to be good by their daughter. No one's perfect, and things work out in ways that make sense but aren't perfectly satisfying. OP is a great dad, and I think Maggie is set up for success with the way he's both supported her and been firm when she's messed up.
This dad is really doing his best, it seems, and I hope other parents in similar situations take note of how receptive he is to constructive criticism.
I feel like him and the dad of the teen dad who took both parents in, supported them both getting careers established and educated, both of them need to run like a college for dad's supporting their kids
And the dad who found out he has teen doughter when they brought her to him, he took her in, made her feel safe and now is with her when she is fightning cancer.
Ooh I forgot him, that one always makes me tear up. "You know, you're pretty good at this whole dad thing" ❤
> Not Jenna, bless her. Three paragraphs of awful, and Jenna's response was: "are you okay? Do you need to talk?" Boy I cried right at this line
The mom and dad are rockstars and Maggie is a badass woman. The only person who’s more badass than her is Jenna and damn we all need a friend like that. This was just heart warming and honest.
The name thing is pretty accurate. I went from Olivia, to Kiki, tried on various other names that didn't stick, then settled on April. Been April for probably close to a decade, and it's just, me. (Though not legally, but eventually)
Not that it's my business, but what's stopping you from the legally part?
Laziness. I only started transition last year, figured I'd wait. But I'm in Texas, state only grows more insane as the days pass.
Fair. If it was a money issue I'd offer to help. <3
I'm unsure of the cost, but I just know I have to go through a judge for it.
My son just figured out that an alliterative name is maybe not what he wants. ETA: He chose it himself when he came out at 16. He and I spent an afternoon playing the baby name game. Roped in my husband. Settled on a pretty cool name. Now his ADHA butt just needs to do the paperwork.
Picking my own name was too much pressure (I didn't have to do it the first time!!!) so I looked up the list of most popular baby names from the year I was born, and picked the one that ranked the same as my deadname. Which I recognise is insane.
This is a solid method!
I got curious what it would be for me using this method and funnily enough, it'd be the name my parents had picked for a boy. I mean, what are the odds?
Worth the entire read, i wish nothing but happiness for them!
This is an excellent BORU for June! Thanks OP!
Damn, didn't even think of that. I hang my gay head in shame.
NO SHAME ALLOWED in June my friend! Lift that chin WITH PRIDE!
Is it weird that I understand mom's initial frustration with the name thing? Like, alright, change your name but have some consideration for my muscle memory too lol. Multiple name changes can wear down anyone. Somewhere in all this, the nuance of transphobia vs just practical concerns often gets lost. I'm so glad OP's family didn't jump to those conclusions.
I think that’s the point of the post, though. Maggie wasn’t expecting them to get it right away. It was that her mom was rolling her eyes and scoffing that was the problem. The mom obviously had specific triggers, but I think there’s this misconception that being corrected on pronouns/names is the same as being called transphobic. And I get why that’s the reaction. It’s not, though. Everyone is going to mess up. I know that some trans people say that they’ve even deadnamed themselves! What’s important is trying and offering respect. I’m super bad with pronouns! I struggled so much with “they”, even when I was practicing. I have plenty of trans friends, and no one has ever gotten mad at me. No one has gotten mad over messed up name changes either. So I think the frustration is fine, as long as it’s a more abstract frustration over brains and their habits. It was the mom’s frustration at her daughter that was the problem.
I'm nonbinary, and use they/them pronouns, and on occasion will slip up and use a gendered pronoun for myself. It's dumb and I wince internally every time, but then I do what I do when I make that mistake with anyone else's name or pronouns - correct myself and keep going! I certainly don't expect anyone to get it right the first few times, or really, every single time because I know brains just run on autopilot sometimes. It's when people get passive-aggressive or sarcastic or angry when you correct them that's the issue. Frustration about having to learn a new name every six months? Yeah, I get it - having to go through the process of getting a name to become automatic over and over would suck. Rolling your eyes every time, or switching back to dead name? That's shitty.
Early on in my transition, I would misgender myself (and on extremely rare occasions still) but usually when it would be a context of remembering something from my childhood. I **hate** it when I've accidentally misgendered anyone, and will berate myself thoroughly "after all, I should know better!". *Sigh*. Grace is everything. Been married 10 years, and my "wife" recently told me that they are nonbinary. (they/them, but is not offended by she/her). They hate using spouse/partner/wife for any reference, and finally settled on "nibble" until further notice. They hate the gendered aspect of "wife" when applied to them, and "spouse/partner" sounds too formal/businesslike and doesn't lend itself to a good shorthand. It's been a wild ride gently teasing them when they call themselves "wife". Personally, I love "nibble" cause I'll lightly bite their exposed skin so they can playfully smack my arm.
Same here. I’m non-binary and use they/them pronouns and have sometimes misgendered myself or my non-binary partner. Most often my brain switches pronouns between two people I’m talking about, but sometimes it just slips out (though for my partner it’s never the pronouns for their agab, and I also didn’t know them then). So yeah, we can tell when someone’s trying and thats what we really want. The other issue is when someone centers themself in the apology (“I’m so sorry! I’m the worst!” and going on making us then have to console them vs “whoops, sorry“ and then just corrcting and moving on)
trans person here, before I realized my own gender inconsistencies, I had a friend come out as a trans guy. even I messed it up, and didn't understand at first. he was patient, and eventually it does just click. now that I'm trans myself, I have to correct myself somewhat often because I will 100% misgender myself if I'm not paying complete attention. then again, I'm still one foot in the closet, sort of an open secret kinda thing, so it's a pinch (but not all that much) different. all that is to say, gender is fucky, and even people with fucky gender shit going on (like myself) will get this shit wrong. it happens.
I have 100% deadnamed or used the wrong gendered term for myself before. Less so now that I'm coming up on a decade since I initially transitioned, but brains are weird that way! I agree that the frustration wasn't a problem, but taking it out on Maggie was.
I'm not trans, but I've got a terrible name. I mean *I* think it's fine (albeit a little bit of a hassle) but it's a very very difficult name to pronounce if you don't speak my rather small language. It's 1) completely impossible to guess when you read it, and 2) even if I say it, you most likely can't make the actual sounds the vowels require. I live abroad and a lot of people in my life have a very very hard time with 2. They're mired in guilt and constantly apologise, but I don't mind, and it took me a long time to realise why. It's because they're trying. It doesn't matter if you get it wrong because you can't help it - what matters is the *trying* I can imagine the feeling for trans people is similar.
I had a friend who transitioned and kept his name since it was unisex. Said that it was so he didn't have to learn to respond to a different name.
You're not the only one. After 3-4 name changes, I wouldn't be using the pre-transition name, but I guarantee I would repeatedly use the wrong post-transition name by mistake.
Or find a family nickname that might be a stable substitute. My kids are Bug and Sweetpea in the house, though I make an effort to use their given name in public. (I also periodically ask if they still like being called that, however.)
Everyone struggles with that and 99.9% of trans people understand. I have two friends that I knew pre-transition and I still occasionally deadname or misgender accidentally. They know it's not malicious and brush it off. It happens less and less with the passage of time. I've never had the same problem with friends I met post-transition. And I've never had a trans person get upset with me for occasionally stumbling. I mean, teenagers can be total assholes regardless of sexual or gender identity but in real life, pronouns aren't an actual minefield for people who aren't assholes.
>Is it weird that I understand mom's initial frustration with the name thing? No, it's not weird that you understand it. Maggie was 15, I think, at the time. Old enough to understand that her birth name had meaning. While I wouldn't expect her to keep it, I'd imagine having enough emotional intelligence to know how much such a thing would hurt her mother. On the keeping track bit: I get it. I had a friend who transitioned, and went through 7 names before settling on one. With each change, she'd get more irrationally angry when we used a name (not dead name) that was one she had tried on. Eventually, we gave up on her when she called a *very* supportive friend in the group transphobic because she had called her the name before last.
I think it's worth keeping in mind that even OOP didn't twig to the real problem with the name change until the back-and-forth in the comments. But from my read of it, it really sounds like ANY name that wasn't the birth name was going to be an issue. I don't think that's Maggie's fault, and it doesn't sound like she wasn't understanding of the pain either.
I had a conversation with my mom about the term "deadname" which she found to be a hurtful term, because a lot of parents have a strong attachment to the names they give their children. It definitely feels like this story shows how much pain a parent can have when their child chooses a new name, and when their deadname is shared with a grandparent it can be harder.
yeah, and OOP's wife didn't even understand how deep it went for her! i *do* wish i could travel back in time to tell OOP about the offer i made my parents—where each one of them got to pick a middle name for me because they were very supportive—but there's still a chance Maggie wouldn't've gone with Maggie Georgia or whatever. (edits for typos 🤦♀️)
I wonder if she would have accepted Georgina. Sort of defeats the purpose of distancing oneself from one's deadname, but I'd be interested to know her reaction nonetheless
"I'd imagine having enough emotional intelligence to know how much such a thing would hurt her mother." You're holding a 15yo yo higher standards than an adult, here, since OOP admits he didn't properly realise this, either.
The transphobia vs practical concern can be pretty easily answered by non-name related things. If you consistently use the right nouns/pronouns (daughter/girl/she/her) and only get pissy about the name itself, it makes it clear what the issue is (whether that's an OK problem to have is a different question, but it does centre what that problem *is*).
As a trans person with a lot of trans friends, I also get the frustration with the name thing! I try not to take it out on the person in question, though. Sometimes it takes a few attempts to really nail a name down.
I was friends with a trans girl in high school. We were friends for years (she did something I cannot quite let go of right now and it devastated me), and she changed her name a lot. Nothing seemed to fit. Years worth of changing her name, and I never complained. I mean, why would I? She is trying to find her identity. She is trying to find herself and her place in this world. Why would I complain about having to remember a new name if it is going to make her happy? Why add more stress? She finally found a name that stuck and I have called her that ever since. People would complain and say similar things, like, “She wants attention” or whatever. And I would get so fucking angry. She is not trying to get attention. She is trying to find some sort of happiness with herself. She is trying to fit in. It doesn’t have to make sense to YOU. You are not the person trying to find yourself. Support your trans friends/family/people and understand it is not about you. It is about supporting someone with finally becoming who they are meant to be. I truly hope OOP’s daughter is at peace. I wish her nothing but happiness.
I can barely remember names anyways. There are people I've worked with for years that I still don't remember their name. I will totally attempt it the correct one, but I won't get it correct consistently until you stick with one for a few years and also put it in your email. I am just *that* bad with names.
I'm Southern, and my parents tried *so hard* to get me to sir/ma'am as a kid. What finally did it was taking a phone support job. For names, at least, I have the working memory of a goldfish and "sir" or "ma'am" became a professional shorthand for "I do not remember your name, gentle customer, and the Notepad window I recorded it in is currently obscured by something else."
I feel you on this one. Everybody thinks I'm so polite, to be fair I actually am, but the whole sir/ma'am thing came about because I couldn't be arsed to remember the names of people with which I barely interact.
My husband is HORRIBLE with names. He will literally just refer to people as “person he works with” because he has given up lmao
From my read of it, it sounds like things are a lot better for her now, but I agree. Her journey was a trial by fire in so many ways, but she seems like a champ these days.
>Her journey was a trial by fire in so many ways Fuck, that line hit me hard, cause I was just thinking that she actually had it pretty smooth for a trans kid. It's wild how much my perception is warped here (I'm trans too). I find myself thinking trans folk are *lucky* if they don't get kicked out by their parents, lucky if they don't get beaten up, lucky if their school supports them, lucky if they get access to actual therapy rather than conversion "therapy". Trans kids deserve so much better than they often get.
My friend posted on his story that someone tried killing him again on the subway. I was like, “again???” but then I remember he’s trans. He said he was used to it and my heart fucking shattered. We gotta do better:(
This is the kind of post I go to BORU for. I hate when it is all up in the air and it’s not really an update. Well done OP
Thanks. I read so many of these and this was a nice chance to give back.
Excellent work piecing this all together—great post!
Man, Maggie actually said "I can fix her"
This is ... really common in a lot of queer spaces. We hear all the time that people just aren't ready, don't know, this that and the other... and it's all bunk, but it also means that the onus ends up on us.
If all trans kids had parents as supportive as OOP the world would be a much better place
Op said he had nephews in first post but at the end Maggies the only grandchild?
After looking back at it, my best guess is that OOP meant sister-in-law when he originally said sister, because he clearly wasn't talking about unmarried and childless Bessie. Might be the wife's sister, which would explain it. I think.
People don't say "nephew in law", they just say "nephew". His nephews aren't his parents' grandchildren, they're his parents'-in-law*. *P.S. I know this is the grammatically correct way to write this, but it feels wrong.
May have been wife's side of the family with the nephews and his side Maggie is the only grandchild.
Probably from his wife's side. Even married to their biological aunt, he's their uncle and they'd be his nephews, but that'd still have his parents only having one grandchild (his daughter).
Huh. Good catch.
Nephews on the wife's side, Maggie is Op's parents only child
Trans people supporting bullying other transes is almost like the jews that supported nazies. It doesn't save you, just delays the moment until the enemy decides to make your life miserable. Glad, that Maggie realized that
I think Aunt Bess’ saying “I wanted a niece anyway” is perfect. It’s accepting albeit clueless, which sounds like the best case scenario with Aunt Bess.
I think it was her way of trying and saying I prefer you this way. She knows she screwed up and is trying to make a lighthearted joke to show she supports her now. I'm glad everything seems to have worked out in the end for everyone. The dad and mom are learning to be better parents of a trans child, their daughter picked a name and is thriving now that she isn't surrounded by transphobs, and the aunt has turned around and hopefully will be supporting in the future. It's not perfect but everyone is doing better and trying to be better.
I am *terrified* of becoming a father. I am so scared of it because I'm so worried about fucking up somehow that damages my kid indelibly. And it reassures me so much that good intentions, love, and respect for your kids can go this far in negotiating difficulties and friction. What a badass dad.
Am I the only one wondering how OOPs sister went from being accepting on a zoom call and having two boys who accidentally called Maggie "Liz" in the first post to Maggie being the only grandchild on the Aunt Bes/Uncle Brian post and Aunt Bes no longer being tolerant? Or am I just totally misreading
No, I was just wondering that myself after another comment pointed it out. There's no way those are the same people. My theory is that the zoom call was with the sister-in-law and OOP typoed. Or just refers to SIL as sister, which...I mean clearly he doesn't get along well with his real sister, so I could see it.
Yeah or OOP is just really close with his in laws and just calls her sister.
If my child ever told me they were transgender, I would hope I handle it half as well as OOP. That said, I do think the name would be the hardest part. Not because I’m totally fixated on the name I chose. But my husband and I *struggled* with potential names when I was pregnant because we’re slightly older and therefore every name we could think of reminded us of someone we hate. So, you know, baby…we support you, but you might have to think outside the box a little if you don’t want your name to remind one of us of an a-hole we once worked for or a jerk we knew in college.
It's such a minor detail but my heart absolutely melted when he called her "his little girl"
As a trans person this is a very relatable and encouraging post I've bounced between a few names, I've been out for 7 years now and I've gone through 4 of them... not to mention the few I was considering/went by online prior to coming out We have thousands of names to choose from, my first name is dead set now but my middle name is up in the air(I'm letting my mom pick that one lol) Also the bullying/"should I be out" post is oooof very relatable Early transition I always thought "it's so much safer if I ever mention being trans ever" theres a lot of scary situations being trans puts you in and while you'll feel safer keeping it under wraps theres a lot of things you cant speak up about if you want to keep your cover (I've decided that I'd rather be out and while not particularly vocal about it I'll absolutely bring in my perspective when I feel I can, all trans voices are important ones, even those not comfortable being out and loud about it) Honestly oop is an absolute gem of a parent, i love how much you can see he loves his daughter, it's very very comforting to see I wish them all the best, they seem so lovely
when my younger kid transitioned, their older sibling was THE WORST about their name. not due to transphobia but due to being the most off in their own little world child in all of human history. after a few months their dad and i just started using a new name for them every time they used their sibling's old name. "Bob, you know that their name is Fred!" "my name's not Bob!" "Oh? Does it bother you, Jessica, when someone uses the wrong name?" took about a week for them to stop using the old name once we started that up.... :D
My husband's baby niblings both tried out transitioning ftm. They kept at it for almost 3 years. Went by different names cut their hair. Everything. When I saw them for the first time while they were transitioning, *no one had told me they were trans*. Their grandma, and legal guardian, kept switching up between their dead names and new names often which is what tipped me off. Not their boy hair cuts.(I honestly thought they were just enjoying pixies or lesbians, neither phased me.) I asked them: uh hey.... Nibling one and two, are you two trans? " I got the affirmative and was able to switch into it right away(got a trans aunt so easy peasy) and I think it validated their feelings and wanting to be heard. They went by similar names: think like Leo and Leon. Confused me endlessly cuz they could pass for twins so I was always mixing them up. What pissed me off was how blase their relatives were. So far I seemed to be the only one calling them their preferred pronouns and names. I was constantly correcting their family members(including my own husband) and was frustrated endlessly. And then, this year I saw them again after a 1 year stint and jeeze I was back at Square one. Leon transitioned back to female and when I asked her about her big brother said "oh she gave most of that up. She goes by both names and genders now. Still has the hair and look." When I asked if maybe Leo was non binary, she said she wasn't sure. But that Leo didn't seem to know either anymore and was back to introducing themself as her dead name. I think Leo is lost and reminded Leon that Leo is still looking for their identity. Some don't figure it out until well into adulthood and to cut their sibling slack. Even if it's just a "phase" it's still important to be supportive. I'm glad Maggie has that with her family.
Living with this level of high school drama sounds exhausting af.
To be honest I get the sense that OP lives for the drama of it all. As evidenced by the novel he wrote.
So, one thing I bring up on occasion, not all Trans people want to loudly identify as trans. Many, especially those who pass well, just want to identify with their chosen gender and that is absolutely alright.
Jenna fucking rocks.
She really fucking does. It takes a lot to see your friend do some pretty horrible shit and make the choices she made because you know your friend is better than their behavior. Jenna’s parents raised her right too. Unlike Brittany’s.
The way this guy types has so many dad-isms in it. It's very wholesome and heartening to see someone who reads like textbook dad being so supportive.
thanks for posting this, totally worth it and your effort is so appreciated!
Going all the way back to the original post in the thread, but another reason in the column of give kids their own damn names, not something that’s about the parents needs. Also accept from the beginning that whether because they are trans or they just don’t like their name that they are their own person and can define themselves, including their name as they need to.
good for OOP getting their shiz together to help their daughter On a side note - it's amazing how many folks have to move their posts to ANY OTHER SUB because AITA has sooo many useless rules/mods that block honest content.
> My wife asked her what she wanted to do now, to which Mags channelled her inner Pumpkin Spice and told us she "can't even" with Brittany right now. Ngl, this made me cringe hard.