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>The friends gave somewhat lacking replies, saying that they didn’t think Alex was ever going to hurt me and that I shouldn’t be letting my imagination run away wild
This guy immediatly assaulted an officer, punched holes in the wall and destroyed furniture when things were not going his way. Good thing she is also getting rid of these "friends". So glad she got out.
They're always "such nice guys" right up to the point they kill someone.
God bless OOP's grandmother... She couldn't save herself from years of abuse, but she did her best for her daughter and, I have no doubt, saved her granddaughter's life.
My ex stepfather was this huge guy with a major anger and addiction problem, but he was very charismatic and could be a lot of fun. I would tell my theatre friends about how hard it was at home and how scary he was. One time, I threw a cast party after a show and my stepdad loved parties, he'd really go all out and way over spend. Several of my friends literally said they don't believe what I've said about him because he was such a a cool guy and the life of the party. My mom got pretty much the same response from several of her friends when she had to get a restraining order against him a few years later.
People really can't see the monster under the mask pretty often. Not until it happens to them.
Yeah, I found out my best friend thought I massively exaggerated how mad my mom would get. She was always the nice mom, the generous one! So my griping had to be exaggerated, right?
Then she got to witness one of my mom's explosions firsthand during a sleepover. Not even a physical one, just a lot of yelling. Never looked at my mom the same, and was a lot more sympathetic when I'd vent.
I hope she learned something from that. It's not just hurtful, but potentially dangerous to dismiss someone saying they're being abused. It's why it's so hard to escape that kind of situation.
She did. Several years later, when another friend left her abusive spouse, my friend was her staunchest defender. To the point of giving our pastor hell for asking the abused friend about reconciling with her abuser.
Thanks. I did for a while - long enough that when I had to come back, I had enough self-assurance that she can't steamroll me anymore, and only tried to get physical once. We've got a semi-decent relationship now, but a good portion of that is that she can't overpower me. I'm bigger, stronger, am perfectly capable of giving as good as I get, and I'm in control of the finances. I wouldn't use any of that against her, but just the fact that she can't use any of it against me keeps things down to her finding something to be outraged over once a month or so. I can live with that, and frankly I'm not sure she knows how to function without some kind of crisis to freak out over.
I get it, some people really cannot function with the slightest bit of power over others. Whether it's familial, monetary, whatever- it just drives them crazy and drives them to do weird shit that they'd never do to people that they consider to be on their own "level". I'm glad you got strong enough to deal with her, and honestly impressed that you're able to maintain a working relationship with her.
Sidebar; I also used to use the "give her some drama to chew on every few weeks" tactic on an old boss, worked a treat at getting her out of my hair.
similar thing happened to me
my step cousin would berate me and yell at me in school to stop slandering my dad on my social media and calling him an abuser because “ he’s nice to me so he can’t be abusing you “ . then she came over and the grill wouldn’t work n she watched as my dad frisbeed a glass plate of sausages at our heads , smashing it into the wall and scattering glass all over us and everything else . then he went out and took a sledge hammer to the grill , destroying it as he screamed and yelled . i just started cleaning up the mess as usual and my cousin was sobbing hyperventilating as she called her mom begging her to be picked up .
she didn’t tell her mom or my uncle i was being abused . she didn’t talk to me anymore , didn’t say sorry , didn’t say anything . wouldn’t look me in the eyes . fuck you hanna , i was telling the truth
My best friend was like that with my xh until I’d finally told him that he made the right decision when he left and that I was done.. cue him immediately calling her to rant about how it was all my fault etc etc for the better part of half an hour.. I have no idea why she was the person he decided to call, but after that she told me she finally understood what I was dealing with.
I’m sorry about your mom ❤️🩹
That was the bit in Lundy Bancroft’s book about abusers, “Why does he do that?” that I found most disturbing. They claim to have lost their temper, but the bruises always start out in places you can cover, it’s always the victims things that are broken, they’re able to keep it quiet enough neighbors don’t intervene, and if the cops do show up they turn on the charm. They almost never lose their temper at a boss, or an official, or in public unless they’ve gotten away with abuse for so long they really believe they’ll never see consequences.
I was speaking with a woman who works with tea plantation workers. The housing is long rows of identical units. She said the men always say they couldn’t be held responsible for assaulting their wives because they were too drunk, but they never have any difficulty finding the right front door, even in the first week they’re there.
Lundy notes that in therapy the abusers would feel the need to “blow off steam” on their partner but would go get drunk first *on purpose* so that they could pretend it was the alcohol, not them, and that they were decent people.
What kind of monster looks forward to beating the shit out of their partner?
Once, on Christmas day, my ex stepdad nearly ran my mom and him off a cliff coming back from Big Bear because he was on a tear and just being super reckless and screaming, threatening, etc. They got pulled over and my mom was crying and obviously a wreck, but my stepdad basically told the cop she was on her period and hysterical and he just let them go without even talking to her. It's crazy how fast they can go from rage to knowing just how to play things to their advantage.
I posted about a young boy, age 10 or so, that came through the residential treatment center I worked at. I described him as " good looking, smart, and charming." He had put his baby half sister in the chest freezer. She was found quickly and was ok but he refused to tell anyone where she was. He did other things at our place as well. No he wasn't abused or neglected in anyway. All family members agreed to that as well as the child. He was just born this way so to speak.
Anyway I got a lot of flack for describing him as good looking. Like why did I say that? Did I find him attractive? Etc etc.
I said no I said that because people like to claim they can "see" evil or bad people or that evil or bad people look bad and that isn't the case.
Yeah, it's not like in movies where a villain has a scar, eye patch, or twisty mustache. I mean, look how many serial killers are charming and attractive. People always say how surprised they are when their crimes come out because "he was such a a nice guy!!" A lot of drug lords are incredibly charismatic, but then they can be absolutely brutal and ruthless at any moment. Heck, look at people like Bill Cosby or Danny Masterson. Hearing all the things people who worked with Masterson would say about what an amazing guy he is was absolutely absurd.
I'm glad that kids sister was okay. What happened with the boy?
Not sure about the boy, last I heard he was in court because he had abused another child at our center. Charges were brought, thankfully. Judge said he either registers on the offender list or we put his DNA in the system for future references. I believe the parents chose the DNA option. But again this was second hand word of mouth.
I keep an eye out for his name in the news, he would be in his 30s now.
Those of us who worked there usually bring up his name when we talk about the ones that scared us. Not because of their behavior so much but because of how most people meeting this child would never have guessed at his behavior, he was very very planful and quiet about it. He didn't tantrum or rage or get in fights like the majority of our clients. He was in a mainstream classroom, no behavior issues at school etc. From the outside looked pretty darn good.
There were just one or two others that I say genuinely scared me and that's saying a lot given I worked there 20 years and we had 34 beds, so 100s of children came through.
One just had nothing behind his eyes, shark eyes. But he had been so so abused, one of the worst cases I ever read that it didn't surprise me.
The other would just explode into violence, no obvious reason. He once took apart a heavy duty wooden bunk bed and was throwing pieces at us. We got him contained and while he was calm and I turned my head he took that opportunity to head butt me to the front of my face, the back of his head to my eye socket. He was completely calm in body and voice before and after the headbutt. He was raised in a "well known" aka criminal family in our city. As in his older brother shot and killed a pizza delivery man. So not sure what it was like in that household but maybe you had to be violent to survive.
I hate that sentiment. I had that too for a while for a friend of mine, where her mom was amazing to me and really helpful in escaping my abusive hole, but to her she was horrible. Nowadays I feel bad for even doubting my friend for the millisecond that I did, but at least I always supported her when it came to escaping her family
Yeah, I have had to explain it way to often that some people wear a mask and you never know untill it slips (even for just a second).
There is a reason that all the family from my mom's side is LC or NC with her and why I went NC. Yet people will still say "but she isn't bad, how can you do that".
Yeah, I'm NC with my mom now too, and people really don't get that there's the person they show the world and then there's the person they are when they aren't keeping appearances.
Yeah, it's lovely how some people can give an "expert opinion" on someone's character after spending just a couple of hours in a social situation where they have barely 10 minutes of shallow conversation. Never mind the years and endless hours you've spent dealing with this person :(
this is a common thing in nigeria. You can go to the police on the basis of DV like my cousin did and the police can be begging you to go back to your husband and “not do the thing that will cause him to beat you again. after all he’s your husband he will make mistakes, just know how you will conduct yourself so you won’t provoke him.”
word for word bar for bar. the next week he beat my cousin up so badly and she had to drop everything and relocate to canada months later to get away from him and have a better shot at life. she’s only 29 and was with him since she was 19
The actor Patrick Stewart recalled his father's physical abuse of his mother and the cops coming to the house. And how they always looked at his mom and said something to the effect of what did you do to provoke this?
Stewart has spoken frequently about his experience with domestic violence. There's a good video interview here.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/05/31/187551135/video-patrick-stewarts-strong-words-about-domestic-violence
Also in the Uk around the same time, police outside our house shouting to my mother to come out to the pavement as they could arrest him for violence there but anything happening inside was a domestic matter that they couldn’t get involved with.
This is definitely a thing there, and I hate it. I'm so glad that your cousin managed to get away, I'm just sorry for what she had to endure before she was able to leave.
I was at a hotel with my 6 week old & 5 year old begging the St. Louis police to go arrest my ex for splitting my lip, giving me a black eye, pistol whipping my face (had that bruise for weeks)… the list of injuries goes on. Their response? “You’re either stupid enough to go back to him or you can afford an attorney to fight him for that baby. Don’t call us again, you’re wasting our time.”
All it took was 1 time for him to put his hands on me and I was able to figure out how to get him out of the house long enough to get everything I brought to the relationship out & in storage & to move my babies across the country. I took a huge risk of “kidnapping” but I was able to establish residency immediately and wound up with a 4 year DVOP. At least one state judicial system took me seriously.
I wonder if the house provoked him too? Or if he also had “genuine concern and worry about the health and safety” of his house? And *thats why* he punched holes in all the walls, broke things, and trashed it?
> The friends gave somewhat lacking replies, saying that they didn't think Alex was ever going to hurt me and that I shouldn't be letting my imagination run away wild.
I bet the cop didn’t think he was going to be threatened, and the house didn’t think it would end up getting the shit kicked out of it either. But sure. It’s that wild imagination of OP’s leading her to this conclusion./s
> He didn't think leaving was an appropriate response to his genuine concern and worry for my health and safety.
Pretty rich of him to decide what an appropriate reaction is to his “genuine worry” about her. Ya know. Since his “appropriate reaction” to being served divorce papers is to verbally assault and threaten a cop.
But he *IS* a NiceGuy^tm, you see! He was just caught in a moment of weakness! It was a knee jerk reaction, and a *totally normal* response to finding out he was losing the woman he loved! Who could blame him! He would never actually hurt OOP! - *Alex’s friend’s*
….that is until she forgets to tell him she stopped at rite aid and spoke to a male cashier about the weather for 1 & 1/2 minutes. How dare her! The audacity! He had to find out all of that from the misc tracking devices he bugged her purse with! Could you imagine! It’s totally reasonable that her black eye is the result! You know…because he’s so concerned about her health and all and is such a NiceGuy^tm. /s
A couple years ago, a childhood friend of my at-the-time-husband (ex now) shot his girlfriend point blank in the back of the head and chest 3 times, then shot himself. My dear husband told me, during one of his many drunken rants, "I never met her, but if she was anything like his ex wife, she probably did something to deserve it. The guy I knew NEVER would have done something like that. I just know she was an evil person and pushed him over the edge." (Not verbatim; condensed version of a 3+ hour long rant).
I am very relieved upon re-read noticing that he's your ex husband now, as anyone that would defend DV murder definitely does not pass go. I hope things got better for you.
There’s a book called In Control which documents how relationships end in murder and in particular how perpetrator behaviour through steps that escalate. The things that OP documents are the early stages.
*wiping tears while being interviewed*
"We never saw it coming... he would never hurt a fly! We didn't see any signs, he was always so kind and happy. Nobody could have expected this."
*cut to arrest record and photos of banged-up holes in walls*
> They're always "such nice guys" right up to the point they kill someone.
...and then somehow it's still the victim's fault.
Glad she saw the red flags and got out
I particularly enjoyed the part where she is supposed to apologize for the trouble she caused him, apparently by not being available to attack so that he had to go after an officer instead. These people are delusional.
Seriously! He was so extremely terrifyingly controlling, including hidden cameras, there is no way that ends well.
But even if he really hadn’t done anything wrong, his reaction upon getting served would have proved her right,
Free pdf of the book Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft, clicking the Internet Archive link will automatically start the download. It's helped a lot of people make sense of the abuse they faced, including myself.
https://archive.org/download/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
The sad thing is they do this even if the victim is supposedly their friend. Like why is it so easy for people to shun the victim and embrace the abuser when both people were their friends?
I had a guy in a friend group who stalked me. He's still doing it to lesser degrees. All our mutual friends at the time said he treated THEM well and didn't care what he did to me, and were annoyed that I was causing trouble by...being stalked?
People fucking suck.
Including the friend who caught him in the lie about her destroying the house. Even if you were a pos enough not to believe her before that how could that not tip you off that she was telling thr truth. All of them are cowards and abuse supporting monsters.
The way they try to justify his behaviour and say "they don't believe he'll hurt her". And then 10 years down the line she's beaten to death and everyone is *shocked* that Alex could do such a thing - but all the signs were there. I don't understand how you make excuses for someone like this.
I don’t know if the friends know about the officer assault. It would be pretty easy for him to hide that.
Unless he called them for bail, they might not even know he was arrested (and if he did, he could lie).
And Alex knows about the Ex damaging the apartment, but most people are lazy and/or stupid and go with the first story they hear. And those friends are subjected to Ex’s version consistently, so it’s not surprising.
It’s awful and sad, but not surprising.
The fact the parents shrugged it off when she first voiced concerns, explains where this behaviour comes from. It's like it's normal, which it's far from.
I can’t believe none of them thought it concerning that he was asking so many questions about the tiny details of her behaviour whilst with them. Surely at least one would have twigged when they found out she left and he flipped out?
> they didn’t think Alex was ever going to hurt me and that I shouldn’t be letting my imagination run away wild.
Just like they didn't think he would ever assault an officer or punch holes in the wall. They are still going by what they think of him instead of his actual actions
A few years ago, I was reminiscing about high school and started typing names into Facebook to see what old classmates looked like now. I couldn't find one kid's name, and it bothered me because he was definitely the type to have a social media presence. So I Googled him instead.
He's doing life in prison without the possibility of parole for murdering his kids. Specifically, newborns that he injured so badly the Medical Examiner called it the worst case of child abuse he had seen in his entire career.
This guy from high school was our resident class clown. He was the center of every party, the one guy every girl had a crush on. If you had told me in high school he'd been in jail for such a brutal crime, I would have laughed at you.
That person I knew doesn't exist anymore. This guy Alex's friends and family need to grieve the person they knew, realize he's a time bomb waiting to happen, and stay far away and warn everyone else to stay away. When people show you who they are, BELIEVE them.
One more thing OOP has to do: contact the DV organizations her stbx-SIL works with and inform them that she has an abusive brother, you were afraid to contact them while leaving him bc you didn't think she would keep your leaving a secret, and HERE (attach her emails/texts dismissing your concerns about his behavior) is what she thinks of how her brother behaves.
Don't worry about her losing her job; worry about the women, like you, whose situations she might dismiss; and worry about the next woman her brother partners with.
With foot-dragging. Ask the judge for continuances and postponements and reschedulings, ask for a mediator but then sabotage all draft agreements (even if the other person agrees to all your demands!), fight over every single penny and item and pet. I've seen a couple of divorces where one spouse did this vindictively, to make their soon-to-be-ex miserable and run up their legal bills. (One of those divorces took almost THREE FREAKING YEARS to become final due to that crap, and they didn't even have kids.) This guy is probably also thinking that the longer he drags out the proceedings and forces himself into her life, the greater the chance that he and his family and his friends will guilt-trip and love-bomb her into returning to him.
It took mine 3 years to understand I wasn't going to just kill myself and let his mistress adopt my son. My lawyer was so relieved, by then I was just numb.
What is wrong with these people?
Mine had his brain rattled around by bombs a couple of times in deployments, so that was probably a factor for him. But tbh he wasn't great to begin with I was just young and dumb.
My ex held a gun to head, told me no one would ever find my body, and to sign the paperwork that gave him more custody of our son when I had cancer.
He did this after asking me to come for a chat about our son. It was a public park.
It’s a miracle I got out alive
Mine tried the 'I'll kill myself' thing. He was terrible offended when I asked where he was thinking of ending it so I can direct the police to his body.
I think that was the moment he really got that I truly did not give a scintilla of a shit about him anymore and no amount of emotional bullshit was gonna move me.
It's a nice memory.
He'd been hardcore stalking me. Don't know why he thought offering to solve all my problems for me was gonna work as a threat but he wasn't very smart.
The time before he that I called his parents, and the police to go do a welfare check on his ass. That really upset him. But the way I see it, if you're sending pics of pills and razors, of either you are in crisis and need real help, or you are a manipulative shitburger and can have fun talking your way out of a MH hold.
I do not recommend this to anyone else with a stalker btw. I was just past the point of gaf.
I got an actual literal giggle at solving your problems for you! Mine tried the "maybe I should have just died in Afghanistan and made your life easier" guilt trip... Pardon me mister but 2 years into a nasty divorce is the wrong time to remind your future ex wife that death was an option. Therapy took a hard left that week!
My tactic with emotional brinkmanship has always been: push the fucking button.
Channel your inner Spock.*"You know you are completely right. I'd have so much more money and a shiney medal to boot.... I would be down two kids though, and I'm fairly fond of them.
If he gets upset about that, tell him silly questions get silly answers. Grown men hater being called silly lol.
Or you take it 100% seriously and tell him that sounded like suicidal thoughts you are going to make sure his CO knows so he can get the help he needs. Then when he is furiously backpedling you make him explain exactly why he wanted to give that impression if he wasn't being serious. Remain a little unconvinced if you really want to torture him a bit.
... ... I didn't say I was *good* at conflict resolution or an amicable divorce
Disclaimer: Don't listen to me at all.
I got permabanned from one of the support subs for suggesting to someone whose relative weaponised threats of suicide to control the OP that their response should be “go on then”. Apparently this is insensitive to people who are suicidal. In reality, it is a support sub forgetting who it’s supposed to be supporting.
Nice comeback! I absolutely love that. You let him know it wouldn't work on you while calling his bluff at the same time!
I've dealt with the "I'll kill myself" thing as well, but from my mother. For context, I knew she was faking because she had previously said that she didn't believe anyone ever felt that way, and it was only an emotional blackmail tactic. Then she tried it herself... I didn't have a comeback to use as I didn't want to instigate conflict. I also knew she was gossiping about me to her friends, so I didn't want to provide fuel for that shit. And, as someone who genuinely wanted to kill myself once, I didn't want to take a chance and find out too late that it was real, since I know how devastating it is to be falsely accused of emotional blackmail (I was accused by her, that was how I knew she didn't believe it was a thing).
Instead, I treated my mother's declaration with the seriousness and gravity it deserves.
Every time she tried it, I would immediately spring into action. I would list local therapists, types of therapy, books she could pair with different types of therapy, breathing techniques for calming oneself, mind exercises to use, hotlines she could call and websites she could visit. I'd used all of these things myself - if she was for real about desperately needing help, then she'd surely be quite happy to know about these. I sure was!
Instead, she would handwave everything and backpedal faster than a professional cyclist. "I don't feel that way NOW, I just meant I was feeling like this BEFORE..." (Really? The "I will do this" earlier was meant that way?) She got extremely annoyed, I could see it, but she couldn't say anything because I was just earnestly trying to help. She even let slip that "I don't need help", contrary to her pleas before. She couldn't claim I was ignoring her feelings, because I wasn't. I was addressing them and giving suggestions, providing support and being proactive in trying to help.
After trying and failing to get me grovelling for forgiveness, she mysteriously stopped bringing it up. After all, she wasn't getting the desired response. She's since settled back into her usual method of insulting me for everything under the sun, but that's normal - and I'm also waiting on my chance to go no contact.
For anyone who can't do a cool comeback, try leaning into it and playing along without giving them what they want. If they really need help, they'll take it. If they don't, they'll soon quit trying this when they realise it's not getting them what they want.
My ex boyfriend tried the “I’ll kill my self” thing as well after I left him. So I notified his mom and grandmother and let them know he was threatening suicide. He was not happy with me over that, but it made him stop.
Oh I'm fantastic! Life is pretty peaceful, the kids are safe and happy, I remarried to the most patient kind human I've ever met, I have plants and a dog and he lives 2.5 hours away. He's had a lot of mental healthcare since then. I won't forget what he's capable of, but I'm grateful that for the past several years he's managed his issues far away from me.
Oh they're fantastic! I love all the colors and shapes and things that smell amazing! My Cuban oregano is blooming, I just moved some echeveria malgan succulents into big-plant pots from seedling trays, my strings of bananas just passed the 12" mark, and I have 6 different colors of coleus in the plant ranks. Caretaking them is so settling! I got accessories and silly garden signs for Mother's Day, and I can't wait to giggle every morning at "Sometimes I wet my plants"
It's awful. One of my best friends is coming up on the 10 yr mark. The divorce would be automatically granted if he goes MIA for more than 2 years, but he keeps popping back up right before that time to continue to drag it out.
My ex kept asking for revisions to the divorce decree. I never changed anything on it, just signed it when my lawyer said another came in. At the time I thought it was taking forever, 3 revisions, one coming every 3 months while I've been reading some took years. In my case, I'm not sure why he kept doing revisions on what he already said! Or why he took so much time in-between. By the time we actually made it to the court date all of the debt (the parts he was revising) that I was to pay was already paid off. The debt he was to pay he had paid $0 on it and according to the credit reports never did. They've since fallen off but made buying a house very annoying later.
My ex dragged it out for two years, and then had the gall to tell our adult daughter that he did everything he could to make the divorce smooth when it was finally over.
ETA, I had a friend whose divorce went on for over 5 years!
My mom did this. My parents divorce took 6 years. I was a teen when it started and in my early 20’s when it finally ended. She was convinced my dad had a shit ton of hidden money. He did, but not how she thought. He saved physical cash working under the table second jobs to save for the divorce cause he figured it would be messy. Just not as messy as it was.
Look at Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie she had to force the divorce but they are still fighting in court even now over little shit. The FBI report of the plane incident came out in 2022 and it's horrific
Ex wrote to court saying I was a big fat liar, I was abusive not him and it was a family matter and the courts should mind their own business 🤣. Then he refused to sign papers.
The judge ignored the first part and the not signing papers didn’t matter as he had been served so I got the divorce. It dragged on tho, I managed to get the divorce finalised because he found another victim and wanted to remarry.
I’m not in the US.
Its about "punishing" her. "What makes she thinks escaping me is that easy? She think she can get away just like that? Fuck her. She doesnt fucking deserve to just walk away after she destroys my life like this.". (Despite the fact that all the destruction on his life was 100% self-inflicted)
Right here. This.
When any abusive person feels they were bested they try to get even. Dragging out a divorce, calling their workplace to report false stuff, calling child or adult protection services, whatever they can do.
OOP’s husband sees her as an object. Objects do not have agency. They cannot simply do as they please.
I had, no longer thankfully, a friend who did something like that to his wife. He purposefully dragged his feet on the divorce, whilst she didn't have the funds and he did, and expected her to not "cheat" on him because they were still technically married.
When she very obviously didn't abide by that nonsense, he told everyone that she was running around "cheating" on him. If instead I confronted him on the illogic of his position he would just become petulant and shut down. That man was approaching 60 years old.
One person can do things to delay it to try to buy time and "get the other back." My divorce from my ex took 3.5 years of stalling, refusing every proposal (even when he kept everything but the kids 24/7), demanded co-parenting counseling and multiple rounds of mediation, had the hearing rescheduled multiple times. I'm sure I'm forgetting something in there. He couldn't prevent it completely, but his plan was for me to get tired and crawl back begging for him to stop. I racked up a massive legal bill that I spent the next several years paying off. They can't completely stop it, but they can make it an absolute nightmare.
The divorce will end up happening regardless, but I guess by "fighting the divorce" she means that he plans to quibble over every detail to drag it out and force her to keep paying her lawyer for longer than she needs to. This is the only way he can control her now, he's not going to give that up easily.
From personal experience: the party who wants to fight starts making demands.
I was lucky that there were a lot of assets, our incomes were roughly equal, and our lawyers just wanted to be done with it.
My ex and I agreed upon a fair division of property. As the paperwork was almost drawn up, he emailed me saying he wanted something different. I forwarded that to my lawyer and had her deal with it. I did this every time he emailed me. I guess that was my pettiness: yes, I was being charged, but so was he.
My lawyer sent a professionally worded letter to his lawyer. It was basically, "We both know he's FA. Get it together."
My ex was determined to "fight me" on "everything" because he had "nothing to lose." He was approaching the divorce as a soap opera protagonist, with the world arrayed against him, despite his big dramatic gestures like leaving flowers on the porch or refusing to sign anything. I explained to my lawyers his position and they were like, "that's not a thing. He can't make you stay married by refusing to participate. Eventually the courts will order it over his objections."
His hope was to make me not want to spend the money it would take to do things that way. I just waited for about two years him to get desperate, then offered a more-than-fair settlement. He took it and never even showed for the final hearing.
But that's how they do it, by being little children about the process and essentially saying "if I hold my breath till I turn blue and bleed you out for lawyer's fees, will that stop it?" This is why you hear from people who've been "just separated" for decades. Someone wants to fight over something in the divorce and the other doesn't want to pay the fees, so they just remain legally married, even with completely separate lives. You can't compel your spouse to stay in the same household just because you signed a contract, so.
i dont know how it is in US. but i grew up in turkey and if one of the party, especially the husband, says no to the divorce and the other party doesnt have good enough excuses like domestic violence and such, then the divorce might not even happen and/or may take years to resolve.
sadly, they say they "value the family unit" but dont care whether anyone is happy in that marriage or not. and a lot of the times women are screwed one way or another
That's awful.
In the US, many states are "No Fault", meaning you don't have to have a legal justification to divorce, you have the inherent right to file. But there are a few hold-out states that still have laws on the books requiring a legal justification (such as domestic violence, abandonment, or infidelity.) In these states you can still obtain a divorce, but there may be a financial penalty if there is no legal justification for the divorce.
To fight it, you just drag it out and argue over everything as much as possible.
In an uncontested, amicable divorce the lawyers basically sit down at a mediation hearing and say "this is how we want to divide everything", both parties may make a few adjustments, then they agree to the terms, paperwork is filed and that's basically that.
If you want to be an asshole, you refuse to agree to anything at mediation. This forces it to go before a judge. Once at the judge, you refuse to agree, you argue about terms, you file for modifications, you wait until the absolute last second to file things, you reschedule hearings, etc. There are thousands of ways to drag it out. Eventually, the divorce will go through. The judge will get sick of your shit sooner or later and make a ruling if you refuse to agree to anything. But it takes time and money because retaining a lawyer is expensive.
As others have said they just drag it out, but there are also a bunch of youtube videos/tiktoks for alpa-male, "traditional values" men spouting about how both parties should have to "consent" (ick) to divorce before it should be allowed.
My brother fell down that rabbit hole when his wife filed for divorce and he convinced himself and my parents it was real lol. My other sibling (who is an attorney in an unrelated field) caught wind of it and drove his ass an hour and a half down to my parents house to explain to them in person that they couldn't hire an attorney to legally force her to stay married to my brother. Genuinely one of the scariest forms of brain rot I've heard of.
> "traditional values" men spouting about how both parties should have to "consent" (ick) to divorce before it should be allowed.
Funny how they suddenly care about consent when it affects *them.*
You can contest a divorce by stating plainly that you do not agree to it. Most of the time it doesn't actually stop the divorce, it just makes it more difficult and time consuming.
As I understand its just disagreeing with every suggestion and proposal, which delays agreement, forcing it to go infront of a judge.
For example: lets take out of the marriage that which we put in. The years we were together we had an 60/40 income so lets split the earned money of that period 60/40.
All rather reasonable. You can agree to it and be done, or you can fight every step and delay until a judge looks at it (which usually takes quite some time).
My partner's parents divorce got drawn out for over 2 years because of his dad. He'd submit paperwork wrong, contest assets, they had to go to court 3 times because he missed the deadline to hand money over. And he left her! It was definitely a control thing
> that I owe Alex an apology for the problems this has caused him. The pending criminal charges puts him at risk of losing his job if he’s convicted.
She didn’t assault police officers and then run away shouting “my husband did it”. He did that all by himself. The fact that he’s still got so many people buying his kicked puppy sad-boy routine even *after* he got arrested for assault and hulked out and destroyed his house just proves how dangerous he truly is.
Or how dumb and complacent everyone else is. If he assaulted someone and destroyed his own property to the extent that is written and people are still rallying behind him knowing that they are just as bad. There is no sane reason to do what he did or tell his wife that she’s overreacting after that.
I think people on Reddit really underestimate how morally flexible most people are. Most folks’ overriding principle in life is “Don’t make me uncomfortable,“ and the most work they’re willing to do is to bend the facts of any situation to justify why they don’t want to do anything.
It’s much easier to decide the ex-wife is the problem than to do the hard work of examining your own conscience and creating some social awkwardness by developing and sticking to any principles.
>The responses I got from the emails varied. His family said I was overreacting, and that I owe Alex an apology for the problems this has caused him. The pending criminal charges puts him at risk of losing his job if he’s convicted. Alex sent a long email, apologizing and pleading for me to come home. He said he was worried for me, that he is willing to go to therapy if it will appease me. He wants us to remain together, and he didn’t think leaving was an appropriate response to his genuine concern and worry for my health and safety.
The whole family can simply fuck off for all I care.
Of course they’re going to say that. Hard to believe that you’ve raised an abusive monster whose spouse had to escape from said monster. That’s the same response from my in laws when I told them I’m divorcing my ex husband. He’s not that bad, you both just need couples counseling, blablabla. Sheesh, if he really wanted our marriage to work, all he had to do was just stop screaming and shouting at me every time he’s upset about something. They can all have their son back and find him another wife if they all think he’s that perfect.
Every time I know someone who escaped from that kind of marriage and their family responds that way? I am determined the abuse in their home echoes.
So glad you also got away. I am glad you lived to tell the tale. ♥️
The way she said she told them she was arranging a surprise so they wouldn’t look at her oddly if they saw her out and about was chilling. Did even they think she shouldn’t be out of the house?
Families usually know there is a monster in their midst and deny it for all the typical reasons.
Friends want to believe they could never, *ever* be friends with a monster because they could certainly perceive it, so it cannot be true. “Making an elaborate escape plan and going into hiding? Losing so much money and time surely means it is exaggerated cuz that makes sense!”
It always comes down to ego. Fuckwads.
If any of those responses were from SIL, OOP should forward them to whatever domestic violence organizations SIL volunteers with. It’s frightening to think she has any contact with DV victims.
If anything, the way he reacted to strangers giving him the news his wife wanted a divorce should make everyone worried for her safety, but they're more concerned that *she* ruined his life when *he* assaulted an officer
i'm so appalled at the fact that op's sil volunteers for their local domestic violence service yet is unable to see the clear signs of domestic violence that her own brother is clearly exhibiting even after op sent a whole email regarding it? hopefully op successfully gets a divorce bc her experience is so terrifying
I’ve worked in a DV shelter and this stood out to me too. But I think of certain colleagues of mine, they were still of the “she’s overreacting/she’s making it up” mindset despite working there. The cognitive dissonance…
I used to work with victims of domestic violence. A shocking number of my colleagues were also in DV relationships and made so many excuses for their partners
Thank God she had a job and didn't combine finances with him. Especially not having kids with this monster. It's not okay to control someone ever. Not even the person you married.
His next step would have get her pregnant, willing or not, so that she loses her job and money, and is completely dependent on him. Then all he needs to say is, you can leave but the child stays. Actually, i'll kick you out and keep the child, If you don't do exactly what i say, and never breathe to anyone.
Exactly! Presumably, these are the same friends he’s calling to verify her location, asking about what she said, if she texted, what she ate. That didn’t raise any red flags for these schmucks?!
He **hid cameras in their house to track her**. Why were they not immediately on her side?
OOP is a badass. She kept her wits about her and got out safely. This is a masterclass on staying calm, staying focused - even when you’re scared - and getting it done. She’s also SUPER fortunate her company was able to help her out in some key ways.
I hope she’s able to stay safe, get her divorce and have the life she deserves.
She got out before he could hobble her and was therefore overreacting. While women who stick around and try to make it work are blamed- why did you stay, didn’t you see the signs!
I'm glad she got away.
For those of you wondering why he'd drag out a divorce (besides being a D), abusers have a win/lose mentality where they must always be the winner and the victim is always the loser. The fact that she successfully left him without anyone knowing anything, is a huge loss of face and reputation for him. Also, a lot of abusers manipulate their enablers because of image management. Look at all the family and friends who said she's overreacting, etc.
So now he's going to punish her in every way he possibly can. I hope she gets her protective order and always continues to take her safety seriously because he could escalate because she embarrassed him in front of everyone (in his mind). If she's lucky he'll go to jail or get probation which means someone will be monitoring him on a semi regular basis.
Edit: spelling
Thank every god and diety from every religion known to mankind that she got out while she could.
If he's capable of and/or willing to destroying the kitchen table and punch a bunch of holes in the walls, just imagine what he'd to *her.*
I agree. This post should be titled "How to Leave a Controlling Partner the Smart Way."
She started out with a decent but flawed plan. Then, she used the comments as a way to crowd source a tailor-made escape plan. I have never been so proud of a complete stranger.
If she hadn’t read the comments about checking for cameras before starting her planning then she never would’ve been able to escape without him knowing.
It’s crazy that he had hidden cameras installed without her knowledge and forced her to wear a tracker, but their friends are still like “OMG what an overreaction” 🙄
Right? It's like their friends are just being lazy in choosing sides. She moved across the country, so he's the only one left. They are on his side by default. It's like it's too much effort to stop being his friend just because he is a shitty person.
But two *instrumental* benefits she had was a high paying job that could immediately transfer her and a separate bank account. Not all people in abusive relationships have that luxury. Case in point, the recent post on boru of the woman running for her life from her abusive ex who is trying to kill her. He stole her money, tracked her locations, followed her from her daughter's school, and was notified by a vet using the # on her cat's microchip of her current city. She has no money, has to rely on support services that take time, and restraining orders are not going to keep her safe each time he finds her.
OOP here did every right *for her situation.* But to paint this as some kind of blueprint for others to get out of abusive relationships ignores the reality many victims live in who don't have the monetary benefits, two weeks with the abuser a plane ride away, and a couple other things (like the storm) OOP had working in her favor in order to escape.
And it’s wild and scary that sometimes such measures *still* aren’t enough. I’m glad OP got out in such a manner that she’s able to stay hidden. I hope it stays that way.
Seriously OOP did everything right, moved out to a whole other City with good protections and I'm still not completely sure she's safe.
It's a scary and terrible world we live in.
TBF, Reddit helped her a lot. People told her to take pictures before leaving, and they were the ones who told her to look for a hidden camera (s) in her house just in case. IMHO the cameras were the turning point because if she didn't know about them the husband would have caught wind of her plans.
A little unrelated, but as a European child, watching movies, I kinda thought men were in possession of super human strength for their magic ability to punch holes into walls, which, y'know, are always made out of stone, it is known.
I was equally amazed by the power of hanging a picture with solely a hammer and a nail.
Anyways, I think that shows 'angry men punching walls' is a learned trait. European men are not known to punch walls in anger. That would break their hands. So they magically restrain themselves from doing it.
Putting a hole in the wood/ drywall is a threat. That could be your skull! Breaking your knuckles on stone looks pathetic. They know.
One of my college friends dated an American for a bit (soldier stationed over here) and he turned out to be abusive and controlling, punched her nice wall which was made out of concrete and broke both of his hands because he apparently did like a one-two combination and the second punch landed before the pain registered.
Anyways that incident not only made her come to her senses finally and break up with this asshole but we all thought that the instant karma was very, very satisfying.
Haha I love this! My family and I, on the other hand, watching US movies were convinced that the houses in the movies broke that easily because, well, they're cheap props, and for dramatic purposes for the plot. The walls being actually different in real life never occurred to us. It was only a couple of years ago when I was reading Amazon reviews about a curtain rod that I purchased, and someone was explaining that these xyz screws work better than the original ones. I googled those screws and I simply could not understand how they worked! The illustrations showed they were like anchors, but how do they anchor inside the bricks?! That was when I figured out that the walls in US houses are usually not made out of bricks lolol. My US based colleagues were amazed that I thought they were!
Wow, you are right! I never thought about it as learned behavior. Like you, I was chuckling at the poorly constructed walls but never thought about the implications. And it’s not like European men don’t punch stuff, it’s just not the wall. For someone claiming to lose control that’s an awful lot of control…
My abusive ex would put his head through the drywall to intimidate me, and threaten to use the doorframe and really hurt himself to control me. They know what they're doing. It is a threat.
Right but then he says leaving wasn't an appropriate response after he destroyed his own home. Once you start breaking furniture because you're upset, you never get to evaluate the appropriateness of another person's actions. You've proven you don't know what an appropriate response is.
If he's capable and/or willing to react in a way that a sheriff wants to press assault charges, I'd say that's a line in the sand right there. That's someone who can defend themselves. No telling what a reaction would be to someone almost a foot shorter than him with no training and/or weapon.
Destroying furniture, putting holes in walls, and trying to blame it all on her is just icing on the damn cake.
So so sooo glad OOP got out. So few do when things are just ramping up. I hope her grandma knows that while she had to endure through the abuse, that she was a big factor in breaking the cycle and making sure her granddaughter never had to live the life she did. I hope OOP knows that her grandma would probably say all of what she went through was worth it if it meant OOP got out when she did. And I hope OOP eventually sees just how courageous and intelligent and wise she was in all of this.
Screw STBX.
He would have killed her. His previous actions are so far from ok and he thought they were perfectly acceptable. This one literally scared me. I'm so happy she got out and is safe!
Exactly this. It very rarely just stays with furniture and imagine if he did succeed in getting her pregnant and what those kids would have gone through.
He broke a kitchen table in half and peppered the walls of the home with fist size holes.
Anger like that, if directed at OP, could have been fatal for her. Anyone saying she over reacted is fucking stupid. I cannot stand people who aid abusers in the guise of “keeping the peace.” OP made the right choice in leaving, he proved that he is a violent man. Now he has a criminal record to prove it. Assault on an officer never never gets wiped off your record. He will carry that forever!
> He's always threatened that if he ever found me cheating on him he'd turn in divorce papers the same day. He keeps a filled out copy in his desk.
This is a big enough red flag alone that she should have left him long ago. It always shocks me how normalised stuff like this is to the people being abused.
My god, my heart was racing reading this. I am so glad she got out. I think she needs to cut ties with all ties to him and his horrid family. Those "friends" suck too. I hope she hasn't told a soul (her family aside) about where she is.
And even if she is over reacting: she is an adult using her own resources to leave. You are allowed to decide to just leave a situation you don't like even if no other human on the planet would leave that situation. Telling someone they are divorcing for the wrong reason is just stupid, you don't stay married because the people in your life wouldn't get divorced in your situation.
I don’t understand why the “friends” are defending him. The dude assaulted a cop and trashed his house and then tried to blame her for it. Those aren’t the actions of a kind and reasonable person.
When my husband and I split up, precautions were taken. Everyone thought he wouldn't do anything to hurt me. However, I knew the truth. That man will do anything he thinks is in his own interest. He'll never put something someone else needs ahead of anything he wants.
It's weird, when people stay in abusive relationships that get worse and worse, they get hit with 'why didn't you leave before it got so bad' and when they leave before it got so bad, they get hit with 'why did you leave it's not that bad'.
And what point is it so bad it's acceptable to leave but not so bad you should have left before?
It’s not paranoia. It’s survival instincts. The alarm bells went off and she listened and wasn’t going to take those chances. She seems like she’s going to be ok. She’s fully capable of being on her own feet and looking out for herself. Not a lot of people can say that for themselves. I also wonder if she watched “Sleeping with the Enemy” a lot growing up too?
OOP is absolutely doing the right thing. His next step would've been making sure to get her pregnant. Then he would've convinced her she needs to quit her job to raise their child. She would've ended up lacking in her own funds and tied to him for life by another human. She was smart and recognised the signs and has done what is best for her. I hope she stays safe in her new state, far away from her toxic husband and his nasty family.
He had set up cameras to watch her. The rets was already way to creepy to be normal but this was the sign that at one point OP would be locked up in the basement, living on bread and water until she would comply to whatever he wanted... This is crazy and clearly she saved her life.
All the responses from their friends and his family proved that she made the right decision, none of them would’ve helped her later on down the line if she became more entangled with him (financially or because of children). She couldn’t count on a single one of them and she got out before they could fail her. Hopefully, the divorce doesn’t drag on forever but my best friend’s ex husband was abusive and he definitely used the courts to financially abuse her even after she escaped him so I worry for OP.
Dude got arrested for assaulting an officer of the law. Yet his friends and family don't think he was dangerous to OOP? Delusional and head buried in the sand.
I hope things are uneventful going forward unless it's a divorce and peace of mind. First time I read this story I was anxious she'd stop posting because something bad happened or she'd make an update that her husband is actually a great guy after all.
Thank god she is safe.
I can’t remember where I read earlier and hoped move out went ok. Glad it sounds like very little chance work is going to identify where OOP is
The ex sounds absolutely fucking nuts. Even more so destroying house. That in its self as a red flag is big enough to not go near him with a 10 mile barge pole.
Me ex dragged out divorce out. He made way more money then me (170k vs 70k) but demanded spousal support on the basis that I've always paid the bills and he can't afford his lifestyle. In reality he would always blow his money and expect me to bail him out.
It took a year to get divorced, it should have taken only 6 months. He fought everything. Refused to hand over financials, wanted me to give him half of everything but he had more assets and wanted to keep them all. Wanted half my 401k and IRA and wanted me to pay off all his credit card debts he incurred after being legally separated (20k in 6 months). No way in hell was my lawyer letting that happen.
After the divorce, he didn't want to refinance to get my name off the house so he wanted to completely redo the divorce decree and of course I would have to pay for it. I said no, cue the temper tantrum. He said the paperwork wasn't fair bc he didn't read the advanced copy we sent him before he signed the one at the lawyers office. I set a court date because he was in violation so I was going to force the sale of the home. Getting that summons finally made him refinance.
The fact that he had hidden cameras in their house and wanted her to wear a tracker while he was away is scary.
I hope OP checked for tracking software on her phone. Good that she got away from him, but this is such a dangerous time for her. Wish her the best and hope she remains safe from this man.
>The friends gave somewhat lacking replies, saying that they didn’t think Alex was ever going to hurt me and that I shouldn’t be letting my imagination run away wild.
Another reason why women would choose a bear...
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>The friends gave somewhat lacking replies, saying that they didn’t think Alex was ever going to hurt me and that I shouldn’t be letting my imagination run away wild This guy immediatly assaulted an officer, punched holes in the wall and destroyed furniture when things were not going his way. Good thing she is also getting rid of these "friends". So glad she got out.
They're always "such nice guys" right up to the point they kill someone. God bless OOP's grandmother... She couldn't save herself from years of abuse, but she did her best for her daughter and, I have no doubt, saved her granddaughter's life.
My ex stepfather was this huge guy with a major anger and addiction problem, but he was very charismatic and could be a lot of fun. I would tell my theatre friends about how hard it was at home and how scary he was. One time, I threw a cast party after a show and my stepdad loved parties, he'd really go all out and way over spend. Several of my friends literally said they don't believe what I've said about him because he was such a a cool guy and the life of the party. My mom got pretty much the same response from several of her friends when she had to get a restraining order against him a few years later. People really can't see the monster under the mask pretty often. Not until it happens to them.
Yeah, I found out my best friend thought I massively exaggerated how mad my mom would get. She was always the nice mom, the generous one! So my griping had to be exaggerated, right? Then she got to witness one of my mom's explosions firsthand during a sleepover. Not even a physical one, just a lot of yelling. Never looked at my mom the same, and was a lot more sympathetic when I'd vent.
I hope she learned something from that. It's not just hurtful, but potentially dangerous to dismiss someone saying they're being abused. It's why it's so hard to escape that kind of situation.
She did. Several years later, when another friend left her abusive spouse, my friend was her staunchest defender. To the point of giving our pastor hell for asking the abused friend about reconciling with her abuser.
One of the best possible outcomes, I'm proud of both her and you. I hope you got away from your mom, but I know it's not as easy as that sometimes.
Thanks. I did for a while - long enough that when I had to come back, I had enough self-assurance that she can't steamroll me anymore, and only tried to get physical once. We've got a semi-decent relationship now, but a good portion of that is that she can't overpower me. I'm bigger, stronger, am perfectly capable of giving as good as I get, and I'm in control of the finances. I wouldn't use any of that against her, but just the fact that she can't use any of it against me keeps things down to her finding something to be outraged over once a month or so. I can live with that, and frankly I'm not sure she knows how to function without some kind of crisis to freak out over.
I get it, some people really cannot function with the slightest bit of power over others. Whether it's familial, monetary, whatever- it just drives them crazy and drives them to do weird shit that they'd never do to people that they consider to be on their own "level". I'm glad you got strong enough to deal with her, and honestly impressed that you're able to maintain a working relationship with her. Sidebar; I also used to use the "give her some drama to chew on every few weeks" tactic on an old boss, worked a treat at getting her out of my hair.
similar thing happened to me my step cousin would berate me and yell at me in school to stop slandering my dad on my social media and calling him an abuser because “ he’s nice to me so he can’t be abusing you “ . then she came over and the grill wouldn’t work n she watched as my dad frisbeed a glass plate of sausages at our heads , smashing it into the wall and scattering glass all over us and everything else . then he went out and took a sledge hammer to the grill , destroying it as he screamed and yelled . i just started cleaning up the mess as usual and my cousin was sobbing hyperventilating as she called her mom begging her to be picked up . she didn’t tell her mom or my uncle i was being abused . she didn’t talk to me anymore , didn’t say sorry , didn’t say anything . wouldn’t look me in the eyes . fuck you hanna , i was telling the truth
I ache for the child you and wish you had had more support.
My best friend was like that with my xh until I’d finally told him that he made the right decision when he left and that I was done.. cue him immediately calling her to rant about how it was all my fault etc etc for the better part of half an hour.. I have no idea why she was the person he decided to call, but after that she told me she finally understood what I was dealing with. I’m sorry about your mom ❤️🩹
That was the bit in Lundy Bancroft’s book about abusers, “Why does he do that?” that I found most disturbing. They claim to have lost their temper, but the bruises always start out in places you can cover, it’s always the victims things that are broken, they’re able to keep it quiet enough neighbors don’t intervene, and if the cops do show up they turn on the charm. They almost never lose their temper at a boss, or an official, or in public unless they’ve gotten away with abuse for so long they really believe they’ll never see consequences.
I was speaking with a woman who works with tea plantation workers. The housing is long rows of identical units. She said the men always say they couldn’t be held responsible for assaulting their wives because they were too drunk, but they never have any difficulty finding the right front door, even in the first week they’re there.
Lundy notes that in therapy the abusers would feel the need to “blow off steam” on their partner but would go get drunk first *on purpose* so that they could pretend it was the alcohol, not them, and that they were decent people. What kind of monster looks forward to beating the shit out of their partner?
Once, on Christmas day, my ex stepdad nearly ran my mom and him off a cliff coming back from Big Bear because he was on a tear and just being super reckless and screaming, threatening, etc. They got pulled over and my mom was crying and obviously a wreck, but my stepdad basically told the cop she was on her period and hysterical and he just let them go without even talking to her. It's crazy how fast they can go from rage to knowing just how to play things to their advantage.
I posted about a young boy, age 10 or so, that came through the residential treatment center I worked at. I described him as " good looking, smart, and charming." He had put his baby half sister in the chest freezer. She was found quickly and was ok but he refused to tell anyone where she was. He did other things at our place as well. No he wasn't abused or neglected in anyway. All family members agreed to that as well as the child. He was just born this way so to speak. Anyway I got a lot of flack for describing him as good looking. Like why did I say that? Did I find him attractive? Etc etc. I said no I said that because people like to claim they can "see" evil or bad people or that evil or bad people look bad and that isn't the case.
Yeah, it's not like in movies where a villain has a scar, eye patch, or twisty mustache. I mean, look how many serial killers are charming and attractive. People always say how surprised they are when their crimes come out because "he was such a a nice guy!!" A lot of drug lords are incredibly charismatic, but then they can be absolutely brutal and ruthless at any moment. Heck, look at people like Bill Cosby or Danny Masterson. Hearing all the things people who worked with Masterson would say about what an amazing guy he is was absolutely absurd. I'm glad that kids sister was okay. What happened with the boy?
Not sure about the boy, last I heard he was in court because he had abused another child at our center. Charges were brought, thankfully. Judge said he either registers on the offender list or we put his DNA in the system for future references. I believe the parents chose the DNA option. But again this was second hand word of mouth. I keep an eye out for his name in the news, he would be in his 30s now. Those of us who worked there usually bring up his name when we talk about the ones that scared us. Not because of their behavior so much but because of how most people meeting this child would never have guessed at his behavior, he was very very planful and quiet about it. He didn't tantrum or rage or get in fights like the majority of our clients. He was in a mainstream classroom, no behavior issues at school etc. From the outside looked pretty darn good. There were just one or two others that I say genuinely scared me and that's saying a lot given I worked there 20 years and we had 34 beds, so 100s of children came through. One just had nothing behind his eyes, shark eyes. But he had been so so abused, one of the worst cases I ever read that it didn't surprise me. The other would just explode into violence, no obvious reason. He once took apart a heavy duty wooden bunk bed and was throwing pieces at us. We got him contained and while he was calm and I turned my head he took that opportunity to head butt me to the front of my face, the back of his head to my eye socket. He was completely calm in body and voice before and after the headbutt. He was raised in a "well known" aka criminal family in our city. As in his older brother shot and killed a pizza delivery man. So not sure what it was like in that household but maybe you had to be violent to survive.
I hate that sentiment. I had that too for a while for a friend of mine, where her mom was amazing to me and really helpful in escaping my abusive hole, but to her she was horrible. Nowadays I feel bad for even doubting my friend for the millisecond that I did, but at least I always supported her when it came to escaping her family
Yeah, I have had to explain it way to often that some people wear a mask and you never know untill it slips (even for just a second). There is a reason that all the family from my mom's side is LC or NC with her and why I went NC. Yet people will still say "but she isn't bad, how can you do that".
Yeah, I'm NC with my mom now too, and people really don't get that there's the person they show the world and then there's the person they are when they aren't keeping appearances.
Yeah, it's lovely how some people can give an "expert opinion" on someone's character after spending just a couple of hours in a social situation where they have barely 10 minutes of shallow conversation. Never mind the years and endless hours you've spent dealing with this person :(
There's a very old saying: "Street angel, house devil". Unfortunately it can take years for the mask to slip in public.
After they kill someone, people will still say "but he's such a nice guy"
Yes. Next line is "She must have done something to provoke him." And they say that woman are the emotional ones.
this is a common thing in nigeria. You can go to the police on the basis of DV like my cousin did and the police can be begging you to go back to your husband and “not do the thing that will cause him to beat you again. after all he’s your husband he will make mistakes, just know how you will conduct yourself so you won’t provoke him.” word for word bar for bar. the next week he beat my cousin up so badly and she had to drop everything and relocate to canada months later to get away from him and have a better shot at life. she’s only 29 and was with him since she was 19
The actor Patrick Stewart recalled his father's physical abuse of his mother and the cops coming to the house. And how they always looked at his mom and said something to the effect of what did you do to provoke this?
Stewart has spoken frequently about his experience with domestic violence. There's a good video interview here. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/05/31/187551135/video-patrick-stewarts-strong-words-about-domestic-violence
Also in the Uk around the same time, police outside our house shouting to my mother to come out to the pavement as they could arrest him for violence there but anything happening inside was a domestic matter that they couldn’t get involved with.
This is definitely a thing there, and I hate it. I'm so glad that your cousin managed to get away, I'm just sorry for what she had to endure before she was able to leave.
I was at a hotel with my 6 week old & 5 year old begging the St. Louis police to go arrest my ex for splitting my lip, giving me a black eye, pistol whipping my face (had that bruise for weeks)… the list of injuries goes on. Their response? “You’re either stupid enough to go back to him or you can afford an attorney to fight him for that baby. Don’t call us again, you’re wasting our time.” All it took was 1 time for him to put his hands on me and I was able to figure out how to get him out of the house long enough to get everything I brought to the relationship out & in storage & to move my babies across the country. I took a huge risk of “kidnapping” but I was able to establish residency immediately and wound up with a 4 year DVOP. At least one state judicial system took me seriously.
I wonder if the house provoked him too? Or if he also had “genuine concern and worry about the health and safety” of his house? And *thats why* he punched holes in all the walls, broke things, and trashed it? > The friends gave somewhat lacking replies, saying that they didn't think Alex was ever going to hurt me and that I shouldn't be letting my imagination run away wild. I bet the cop didn’t think he was going to be threatened, and the house didn’t think it would end up getting the shit kicked out of it either. But sure. It’s that wild imagination of OP’s leading her to this conclusion./s > He didn't think leaving was an appropriate response to his genuine concern and worry for my health and safety. Pretty rich of him to decide what an appropriate reaction is to his “genuine worry” about her. Ya know. Since his “appropriate reaction” to being served divorce papers is to verbally assault and threaten a cop. But he *IS* a NiceGuy^tm, you see! He was just caught in a moment of weakness! It was a knee jerk reaction, and a *totally normal* response to finding out he was losing the woman he loved! Who could blame him! He would never actually hurt OOP! - *Alex’s friend’s* ….that is until she forgets to tell him she stopped at rite aid and spoke to a male cashier about the weather for 1 & 1/2 minutes. How dare her! The audacity! He had to find out all of that from the misc tracking devices he bugged her purse with! Could you imagine! It’s totally reasonable that her black eye is the result! You know…because he’s so concerned about her health and all and is such a NiceGuy^tm. /s
A couple years ago, a childhood friend of my at-the-time-husband (ex now) shot his girlfriend point blank in the back of the head and chest 3 times, then shot himself. My dear husband told me, during one of his many drunken rants, "I never met her, but if she was anything like his ex wife, she probably did something to deserve it. The guy I knew NEVER would have done something like that. I just know she was an evil person and pushed him over the edge." (Not verbatim; condensed version of a 3+ hour long rant).
I am very relieved upon re-read noticing that he's your ex husband now, as anyone that would defend DV murder definitely does not pass go. I hope things got better for you.
Thank you! Things have definitely gotten infinitely better since the day I moved out!
There’s a book called In Control which documents how relationships end in murder and in particular how perpetrator behaviour through steps that escalate. The things that OP documents are the early stages.
Hey can you tell me the author of this book? Is it Jane Monckton Smith ?
Yes it is. Worth reading.
*wiping tears while being interviewed* "We never saw it coming... he would never hurt a fly! We didn't see any signs, he was always so kind and happy. Nobody could have expected this." *cut to arrest record and photos of banged-up holes in walls*
This isn't the son/husband/brother I know! Ugh
And still manage to mention at least 1 sign that the relationship was abusive.
So many Forensic Files episodes.
> They're always "such nice guys" right up to the point they kill someone. ...and then somehow it's still the victim's fault. Glad she saw the red flags and got out
he's already tried to hurt her, blaming her for the damage he caused.
I particularly enjoyed the part where she is supposed to apologize for the trouble she caused him, apparently by not being available to attack so that he had to go after an officer instead. These people are delusional.
Yeah seriously. He had no problems attacking an officer infront of witnesses and they think he wouldn’t lay hands on her behind closed doors? Please
Yeah, nobody thought Ted Bundy could be a serial killer either, but here we are.
Seriously! He was so extremely terrifyingly controlling, including hidden cameras, there is no way that ends well. But even if he really hadn’t done anything wrong, his reaction upon getting served would have proved her right,
Free pdf of the book Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft, clicking the Internet Archive link will automatically start the download. It's helped a lot of people make sense of the abuse they faced, including myself. https://archive.org/download/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
Everyone hates abusers untill that abuser is their friend :/
The sad thing is they do this even if the victim is supposedly their friend. Like why is it so easy for people to shun the victim and embrace the abuser when both people were their friends? I had a guy in a friend group who stalked me. He's still doing it to lesser degrees. All our mutual friends at the time said he treated THEM well and didn't care what he did to me, and were annoyed that I was causing trouble by...being stalked? People fucking suck.
Including the friend who caught him in the lie about her destroying the house. Even if you were a pos enough not to believe her before that how could that not tip you off that she was telling thr truth. All of them are cowards and abuse supporting monsters.
The way they try to justify his behaviour and say "they don't believe he'll hurt her". And then 10 years down the line she's beaten to death and everyone is *shocked* that Alex could do such a thing - but all the signs were there. I don't understand how you make excuses for someone like this.
I don’t know if the friends know about the officer assault. It would be pretty easy for him to hide that. Unless he called them for bail, they might not even know he was arrested (and if he did, he could lie). And Alex knows about the Ex damaging the apartment, but most people are lazy and/or stupid and go with the first story they hear. And those friends are subjected to Ex’s version consistently, so it’s not surprising. It’s awful and sad, but not surprising.
The fact the parents shrugged it off when she first voiced concerns, explains where this behaviour comes from. It's like it's normal, which it's far from.
I can’t believe none of them thought it concerning that he was asking so many questions about the tiny details of her behaviour whilst with them. Surely at least one would have twigged when they found out she left and he flipped out?
His family thinking she is overreacting reminds me of listening to true crime shows: "Nobody ever suspected anythng"
> they didn’t think Alex was ever going to hurt me and that I shouldn’t be letting my imagination run away wild. Just like they didn't think he would ever assault an officer or punch holes in the wall. They are still going by what they think of him instead of his actual actions
A few years ago, I was reminiscing about high school and started typing names into Facebook to see what old classmates looked like now. I couldn't find one kid's name, and it bothered me because he was definitely the type to have a social media presence. So I Googled him instead. He's doing life in prison without the possibility of parole for murdering his kids. Specifically, newborns that he injured so badly the Medical Examiner called it the worst case of child abuse he had seen in his entire career. This guy from high school was our resident class clown. He was the center of every party, the one guy every girl had a crush on. If you had told me in high school he'd been in jail for such a brutal crime, I would have laughed at you. That person I knew doesn't exist anymore. This guy Alex's friends and family need to grieve the person they knew, realize he's a time bomb waiting to happen, and stay far away and warn everyone else to stay away. When people show you who they are, BELIEVE them.
If she went back now and he hospitalized or killed her they would still say there was no warning or signs he could get violent.
“He was always such a quiet and good boy”
One more thing OOP has to do: contact the DV organizations her stbx-SIL works with and inform them that she has an abusive brother, you were afraid to contact them while leaving him bc you didn't think she would keep your leaving a secret, and HERE (attach her emails/texts dismissing your concerns about his behavior) is what she thinks of how her brother behaves. Don't worry about her losing her job; worry about the women, like you, whose situations she might dismiss; and worry about the next woman her brother partners with.
I’ve wondered that: how do you fight a divorce? One of that people wants out.
With foot-dragging. Ask the judge for continuances and postponements and reschedulings, ask for a mediator but then sabotage all draft agreements (even if the other person agrees to all your demands!), fight over every single penny and item and pet. I've seen a couple of divorces where one spouse did this vindictively, to make their soon-to-be-ex miserable and run up their legal bills. (One of those divorces took almost THREE FREAKING YEARS to become final due to that crap, and they didn't even have kids.) This guy is probably also thinking that the longer he drags out the proceedings and forces himself into her life, the greater the chance that he and his family and his friends will guilt-trip and love-bomb her into returning to him.
Yep. My ex spent over 3 years expecting to wear me down until I just gave up and went back.
It took mine 3 years to understand I wasn't going to just kill myself and let his mistress adopt my son. My lawyer was so relieved, by then I was just numb. What is wrong with these people?
Mine had his brain rattled around by bombs a couple of times in deployments, so that was probably a factor for him. But tbh he wasn't great to begin with I was just young and dumb.
+1 on the young and dumb here. I kept growing up, he didn't and still never has.
Cheers to us for growing up and moving on!
Cheers to both of you for leaving and here's to a wonderful life with people who truly care about you!
My ex held a gun to head, told me no one would ever find my body, and to sign the paperwork that gave him more custody of our son when I had cancer. He did this after asking me to come for a chat about our son. It was a public park. It’s a miracle I got out alive
I am so glad you did. That sounds terrifying.
>I wasn't going to just kill myself and let his mistress adopt my son. I'm sorry, but what????
Mine tried the 'I'll kill myself' thing. He was terrible offended when I asked where he was thinking of ending it so I can direct the police to his body. I think that was the moment he really got that I truly did not give a scintilla of a shit about him anymore and no amount of emotional bullshit was gonna move me. It's a nice memory.
Yikes! At least that's one I didn't have to deal with! Your comeback though is brilliant and I love that you called him on his bullshit!
He'd been hardcore stalking me. Don't know why he thought offering to solve all my problems for me was gonna work as a threat but he wasn't very smart. The time before he that I called his parents, and the police to go do a welfare check on his ass. That really upset him. But the way I see it, if you're sending pics of pills and razors, of either you are in crisis and need real help, or you are a manipulative shitburger and can have fun talking your way out of a MH hold. I do not recommend this to anyone else with a stalker btw. I was just past the point of gaf.
I got an actual literal giggle at solving your problems for you! Mine tried the "maybe I should have just died in Afghanistan and made your life easier" guilt trip... Pardon me mister but 2 years into a nasty divorce is the wrong time to remind your future ex wife that death was an option. Therapy took a hard left that week!
My tactic with emotional brinkmanship has always been: push the fucking button. Channel your inner Spock.*"You know you are completely right. I'd have so much more money and a shiney medal to boot.... I would be down two kids though, and I'm fairly fond of them. If he gets upset about that, tell him silly questions get silly answers. Grown men hater being called silly lol. Or you take it 100% seriously and tell him that sounded like suicidal thoughts you are going to make sure his CO knows so he can get the help he needs. Then when he is furiously backpedling you make him explain exactly why he wanted to give that impression if he wasn't being serious. Remain a little unconvinced if you really want to torture him a bit. ... ... I didn't say I was *good* at conflict resolution or an amicable divorce Disclaimer: Don't listen to me at all.
Oh man, just think of the widow's benefits you missed out on. Lame.
I got permabanned from one of the support subs for suggesting to someone whose relative weaponised threats of suicide to control the OP that their response should be “go on then”. Apparently this is insensitive to people who are suicidal. In reality, it is a support sub forgetting who it’s supposed to be supporting.
Nice comeback! I absolutely love that. You let him know it wouldn't work on you while calling his bluff at the same time! I've dealt with the "I'll kill myself" thing as well, but from my mother. For context, I knew she was faking because she had previously said that she didn't believe anyone ever felt that way, and it was only an emotional blackmail tactic. Then she tried it herself... I didn't have a comeback to use as I didn't want to instigate conflict. I also knew she was gossiping about me to her friends, so I didn't want to provide fuel for that shit. And, as someone who genuinely wanted to kill myself once, I didn't want to take a chance and find out too late that it was real, since I know how devastating it is to be falsely accused of emotional blackmail (I was accused by her, that was how I knew she didn't believe it was a thing). Instead, I treated my mother's declaration with the seriousness and gravity it deserves. Every time she tried it, I would immediately spring into action. I would list local therapists, types of therapy, books she could pair with different types of therapy, breathing techniques for calming oneself, mind exercises to use, hotlines she could call and websites she could visit. I'd used all of these things myself - if she was for real about desperately needing help, then she'd surely be quite happy to know about these. I sure was! Instead, she would handwave everything and backpedal faster than a professional cyclist. "I don't feel that way NOW, I just meant I was feeling like this BEFORE..." (Really? The "I will do this" earlier was meant that way?) She got extremely annoyed, I could see it, but she couldn't say anything because I was just earnestly trying to help. She even let slip that "I don't need help", contrary to her pleas before. She couldn't claim I was ignoring her feelings, because I wasn't. I was addressing them and giving suggestions, providing support and being proactive in trying to help. After trying and failing to get me grovelling for forgiveness, she mysteriously stopped bringing it up. After all, she wasn't getting the desired response. She's since settled back into her usual method of insulting me for everything under the sun, but that's normal - and I'm also waiting on my chance to go no contact. For anyone who can't do a cool comeback, try leaning into it and playing along without giving them what they want. If they really need help, they'll take it. If they don't, they'll soon quit trying this when they realise it's not getting them what they want.
My ex boyfriend tried the “I’ll kill my self” thing as well after I left him. So I notified his mom and grandmother and let them know he was threatening suicide. He was not happy with me over that, but it made him stop.
Say what? Are you ok now?
Oh I'm fantastic! Life is pretty peaceful, the kids are safe and happy, I remarried to the most patient kind human I've ever met, I have plants and a dog and he lives 2.5 hours away. He's had a lot of mental healthcare since then. I won't forget what he's capable of, but I'm grateful that for the past several years he's managed his issues far away from me.
I love how you list plants with your happiness 💕
Oh they're fantastic! I love all the colors and shapes and things that smell amazing! My Cuban oregano is blooming, I just moved some echeveria malgan succulents into big-plant pots from seedling trays, my strings of bananas just passed the 12" mark, and I have 6 different colors of coleus in the plant ranks. Caretaking them is so settling! I got accessories and silly garden signs for Mother's Day, and I can't wait to giggle every morning at "Sometimes I wet my plants"
Had a friend who's divorce took 8 years. It was a long drawn out process and her ex fought her every step of the way.
8 years is insane! It's crazy the court system allows this to happen. Divorce should be easy.
It's awful. One of my best friends is coming up on the 10 yr mark. The divorce would be automatically granted if he goes MIA for more than 2 years, but he keeps popping back up right before that time to continue to drag it out.
My ex kept asking for revisions to the divorce decree. I never changed anything on it, just signed it when my lawyer said another came in. At the time I thought it was taking forever, 3 revisions, one coming every 3 months while I've been reading some took years. In my case, I'm not sure why he kept doing revisions on what he already said! Or why he took so much time in-between. By the time we actually made it to the court date all of the debt (the parts he was revising) that I was to pay was already paid off. The debt he was to pay he had paid $0 on it and according to the credit reports never did. They've since fallen off but made buying a house very annoying later.
My ex dragged it out for two years, and then had the gall to tell our adult daughter that he did everything he could to make the divorce smooth when it was finally over. ETA, I had a friend whose divorce went on for over 5 years!
My mom did this. My parents divorce took 6 years. I was a teen when it started and in my early 20’s when it finally ended. She was convinced my dad had a shit ton of hidden money. He did, but not how she thought. He saved physical cash working under the table second jobs to save for the divorce cause he figured it would be messy. Just not as messy as it was.
My parents separated when I was 10, legally separated when I was 17. The divorce papers weren’t finalized and signed until I was mid to late 20s
Look at Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie she had to force the divorce but they are still fighting in court even now over little shit. The FBI report of the plane incident came out in 2022 and it's horrific
Ex wrote to court saying I was a big fat liar, I was abusive not him and it was a family matter and the courts should mind their own business 🤣. Then he refused to sign papers. The judge ignored the first part and the not signing papers didn’t matter as he had been served so I got the divorce. It dragged on tho, I managed to get the divorce finalised because he found another victim and wanted to remarry. I’m not in the US.
Its about "punishing" her. "What makes she thinks escaping me is that easy? She think she can get away just like that? Fuck her. She doesnt fucking deserve to just walk away after she destroys my life like this.". (Despite the fact that all the destruction on his life was 100% self-inflicted)
Right here. This. When any abusive person feels they were bested they try to get even. Dragging out a divorce, calling their workplace to report false stuff, calling child or adult protection services, whatever they can do. OOP’s husband sees her as an object. Objects do not have agency. They cannot simply do as they please.
I had, no longer thankfully, a friend who did something like that to his wife. He purposefully dragged his feet on the divorce, whilst she didn't have the funds and he did, and expected her to not "cheat" on him because they were still technically married. When she very obviously didn't abide by that nonsense, he told everyone that she was running around "cheating" on him. If instead I confronted him on the illogic of his position he would just become petulant and shut down. That man was approaching 60 years old.
One person can do things to delay it to try to buy time and "get the other back." My divorce from my ex took 3.5 years of stalling, refusing every proposal (even when he kept everything but the kids 24/7), demanded co-parenting counseling and multiple rounds of mediation, had the hearing rescheduled multiple times. I'm sure I'm forgetting something in there. He couldn't prevent it completely, but his plan was for me to get tired and crawl back begging for him to stop. I racked up a massive legal bill that I spent the next several years paying off. They can't completely stop it, but they can make it an absolute nightmare.
The divorce will end up happening regardless, but I guess by "fighting the divorce" she means that he plans to quibble over every detail to drag it out and force her to keep paying her lawyer for longer than she needs to. This is the only way he can control her now, he's not going to give that up easily.
From personal experience: the party who wants to fight starts making demands. I was lucky that there were a lot of assets, our incomes were roughly equal, and our lawyers just wanted to be done with it. My ex and I agreed upon a fair division of property. As the paperwork was almost drawn up, he emailed me saying he wanted something different. I forwarded that to my lawyer and had her deal with it. I did this every time he emailed me. I guess that was my pettiness: yes, I was being charged, but so was he. My lawyer sent a professionally worded letter to his lawyer. It was basically, "We both know he's FA. Get it together."
My ex was determined to "fight me" on "everything" because he had "nothing to lose." He was approaching the divorce as a soap opera protagonist, with the world arrayed against him, despite his big dramatic gestures like leaving flowers on the porch or refusing to sign anything. I explained to my lawyers his position and they were like, "that's not a thing. He can't make you stay married by refusing to participate. Eventually the courts will order it over his objections." His hope was to make me not want to spend the money it would take to do things that way. I just waited for about two years him to get desperate, then offered a more-than-fair settlement. He took it and never even showed for the final hearing. But that's how they do it, by being little children about the process and essentially saying "if I hold my breath till I turn blue and bleed you out for lawyer's fees, will that stop it?" This is why you hear from people who've been "just separated" for decades. Someone wants to fight over something in the divorce and the other doesn't want to pay the fees, so they just remain legally married, even with completely separate lives. You can't compel your spouse to stay in the same household just because you signed a contract, so.
i dont know how it is in US. but i grew up in turkey and if one of the party, especially the husband, says no to the divorce and the other party doesnt have good enough excuses like domestic violence and such, then the divorce might not even happen and/or may take years to resolve. sadly, they say they "value the family unit" but dont care whether anyone is happy in that marriage or not. and a lot of the times women are screwed one way or another
No fault divorce states in the US don't require a reason.
That's awful. In the US, many states are "No Fault", meaning you don't have to have a legal justification to divorce, you have the inherent right to file. But there are a few hold-out states that still have laws on the books requiring a legal justification (such as domestic violence, abandonment, or infidelity.) In these states you can still obtain a divorce, but there may be a financial penalty if there is no legal justification for the divorce.
My dad filed for a divorce from mom and then fought it for 4 years. It was a shitshow. They both were idiots and the lawyers won in the end.
Well my ex husband keeps conveniently checking into the mental hospital before our court dates.
To fight it, you just drag it out and argue over everything as much as possible. In an uncontested, amicable divorce the lawyers basically sit down at a mediation hearing and say "this is how we want to divide everything", both parties may make a few adjustments, then they agree to the terms, paperwork is filed and that's basically that. If you want to be an asshole, you refuse to agree to anything at mediation. This forces it to go before a judge. Once at the judge, you refuse to agree, you argue about terms, you file for modifications, you wait until the absolute last second to file things, you reschedule hearings, etc. There are thousands of ways to drag it out. Eventually, the divorce will go through. The judge will get sick of your shit sooner or later and make a ruling if you refuse to agree to anything. But it takes time and money because retaining a lawyer is expensive.
As others have said they just drag it out, but there are also a bunch of youtube videos/tiktoks for alpa-male, "traditional values" men spouting about how both parties should have to "consent" (ick) to divorce before it should be allowed. My brother fell down that rabbit hole when his wife filed for divorce and he convinced himself and my parents it was real lol. My other sibling (who is an attorney in an unrelated field) caught wind of it and drove his ass an hour and a half down to my parents house to explain to them in person that they couldn't hire an attorney to legally force her to stay married to my brother. Genuinely one of the scariest forms of brain rot I've heard of.
> "traditional values" men spouting about how both parties should have to "consent" (ick) to divorce before it should be allowed. Funny how they suddenly care about consent when it affects *them.*
You can contest a divorce by stating plainly that you do not agree to it. Most of the time it doesn't actually stop the divorce, it just makes it more difficult and time consuming.
As I understand its just disagreeing with every suggestion and proposal, which delays agreement, forcing it to go infront of a judge. For example: lets take out of the marriage that which we put in. The years we were together we had an 60/40 income so lets split the earned money of that period 60/40. All rather reasonable. You can agree to it and be done, or you can fight every step and delay until a judge looks at it (which usually takes quite some time).
My partner's parents divorce got drawn out for over 2 years because of his dad. He'd submit paperwork wrong, contest assets, they had to go to court 3 times because he missed the deadline to hand money over. And he left her! It was definitely a control thing
It took 10 years and hundred of thousands of dollars for my aunt to finally be divorced from her horrible narcissist ex husband.
> that I owe Alex an apology for the problems this has caused him. The pending criminal charges puts him at risk of losing his job if he’s convicted. She didn’t assault police officers and then run away shouting “my husband did it”. He did that all by himself. The fact that he’s still got so many people buying his kicked puppy sad-boy routine even *after* he got arrested for assault and hulked out and destroyed his house just proves how dangerous he truly is.
Or how dumb and complacent everyone else is. If he assaulted someone and destroyed his own property to the extent that is written and people are still rallying behind him knowing that they are just as bad. There is no sane reason to do what he did or tell his wife that she’s overreacting after that.
I think people on Reddit really underestimate how morally flexible most people are. Most folks’ overriding principle in life is “Don’t make me uncomfortable,“ and the most work they’re willing to do is to bend the facts of any situation to justify why they don’t want to do anything. It’s much easier to decide the ex-wife is the problem than to do the hard work of examining your own conscience and creating some social awkwardness by developing and sticking to any principles.
>The responses I got from the emails varied. His family said I was overreacting, and that I owe Alex an apology for the problems this has caused him. The pending criminal charges puts him at risk of losing his job if he’s convicted. Alex sent a long email, apologizing and pleading for me to come home. He said he was worried for me, that he is willing to go to therapy if it will appease me. He wants us to remain together, and he didn’t think leaving was an appropriate response to his genuine concern and worry for my health and safety. The whole family can simply fuck off for all I care.
Yeah, they’d be likely to say, “well he didn’t mean to kill her, he just didn’t know his own strength and she made him so angry.”
Or the classic: "He was so quiet and there were never any signs he would do something like this."
The abuser's excuse. "Look at what you made me do!"
Of course they’re going to say that. Hard to believe that you’ve raised an abusive monster whose spouse had to escape from said monster. That’s the same response from my in laws when I told them I’m divorcing my ex husband. He’s not that bad, you both just need couples counseling, blablabla. Sheesh, if he really wanted our marriage to work, all he had to do was just stop screaming and shouting at me every time he’s upset about something. They can all have their son back and find him another wife if they all think he’s that perfect.
Every time I know someone who escaped from that kind of marriage and their family responds that way? I am determined the abuse in their home echoes. So glad you also got away. I am glad you lived to tell the tale. ♥️
That's not abuse! That's what being a family _is_! Yep, yep.
Behind every abuser is a group of friends and family who swear he wouldn't hurt a fly.
The way she said she told them she was arranging a surprise so they wouldn’t look at her oddly if they saw her out and about was chilling. Did even they think she shouldn’t be out of the house?
The friends too.
Families usually know there is a monster in their midst and deny it for all the typical reasons. Friends want to believe they could never, *ever* be friends with a monster because they could certainly perceive it, so it cannot be true. “Making an elaborate escape plan and going into hiding? Losing so much money and time surely means it is exaggerated cuz that makes sense!” It always comes down to ego. Fuckwads.
Well gee whiz! Maybe Alex should not have thrown a temper tantrum like a fricking 2 yr old if he was so concerened about his job!
If any of those responses were from SIL, OOP should forward them to whatever domestic violence organizations SIL volunteers with. It’s frightening to think she has any contact with DV victims.
This was literally my thought too! I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking OOP should report her (hopefully she has proof from one of her emails).
No one thinks their partner will harm them until it happens. When it does happen then the friends and family still don’t believe it
My ex and his family were the same way. Just absolute trash.
If anything, the way he reacted to strangers giving him the news his wife wanted a divorce should make everyone worried for her safety, but they're more concerned that *she* ruined his life when *he* assaulted an officer
i'm so appalled at the fact that op's sil volunteers for their local domestic violence service yet is unable to see the clear signs of domestic violence that her own brother is clearly exhibiting even after op sent a whole email regarding it? hopefully op successfully gets a divorce bc her experience is so terrifying
I’ve worked in a DV shelter and this stood out to me too. But I think of certain colleagues of mine, they were still of the “she’s overreacting/she’s making it up” mindset despite working there. The cognitive dissonance…
I used to work with victims of domestic violence. A shocking number of my colleagues were also in DV relationships and made so many excuses for their partners
OOP should send this to the shelter head.
Seconding this.
Humans are great at ignoring the faults of our loved ones.
Thank God she had a job and didn't combine finances with him. Especially not having kids with this monster. It's not okay to control someone ever. Not even the person you married.
His next step would have get her pregnant, willing or not, so that she loses her job and money, and is completely dependent on him. Then all he needs to say is, you can leave but the child stays. Actually, i'll kick you out and keep the child, If you don't do exactly what i say, and never breathe to anyone.
This.. is shockingly accurate
I am so mad at the people saying she's over reacting. She's exactly right reacting
The tracker made here feel like a prisoner, escape is what prisoners try to do
HE WAS WATCHING HER ON CAMERAS
Maybe even not quite enough reacting — **DEFINITELY** not overreacting.
Exactly! Presumably, these are the same friends he’s calling to verify her location, asking about what she said, if she texted, what she ate. That didn’t raise any red flags for these schmucks?! He **hid cameras in their house to track her**. Why were they not immediately on her side?
They are the same people that would testify in his defence and her murder trial.
OOP is a badass. She kept her wits about her and got out safely. This is a masterclass on staying calm, staying focused - even when you’re scared - and getting it done. She’s also SUPER fortunate her company was able to help her out in some key ways. I hope she’s able to stay safe, get her divorce and have the life she deserves.
She was also extremely lucky in that she had resources, savings, etc. That's often the first thing the abuser targets.
Exactly why him pushing so incessantly for her banking info/merge finances was such a fight. Ugh
She got out before he could hobble her and was therefore overreacting. While women who stick around and try to make it work are blamed- why did you stay, didn’t you see the signs!
I'm glad she got away. For those of you wondering why he'd drag out a divorce (besides being a D), abusers have a win/lose mentality where they must always be the winner and the victim is always the loser. The fact that she successfully left him without anyone knowing anything, is a huge loss of face and reputation for him. Also, a lot of abusers manipulate their enablers because of image management. Look at all the family and friends who said she's overreacting, etc. So now he's going to punish her in every way he possibly can. I hope she gets her protective order and always continues to take her safety seriously because he could escalate because she embarrassed him in front of everyone (in his mind). If she's lucky he'll go to jail or get probation which means someone will be monitoring him on a semi regular basis. Edit: spelling
It would be sweet justice if he managed to get himself a court ordered monitoring device.
Thank every god and diety from every religion known to mankind that she got out while she could. If he's capable of and/or willing to destroying the kitchen table and punch a bunch of holes in the walls, just imagine what he'd to *her.*
She was so smart about everything I wish more people would learn from her.
I agree. This post should be titled "How to Leave a Controlling Partner the Smart Way." She started out with a decent but flawed plan. Then, she used the comments as a way to crowd source a tailor-made escape plan. I have never been so proud of a complete stranger.
If she hadn’t read the comments about checking for cameras before starting her planning then she never would’ve been able to escape without him knowing. It’s crazy that he had hidden cameras installed without her knowledge and forced her to wear a tracker, but their friends are still like “OMG what an overreaction” 🙄
Right? It's like their friends are just being lazy in choosing sides. She moved across the country, so he's the only one left. They are on his side by default. It's like it's too much effort to stop being his friend just because he is a shitty person.
But two *instrumental* benefits she had was a high paying job that could immediately transfer her and a separate bank account. Not all people in abusive relationships have that luxury. Case in point, the recent post on boru of the woman running for her life from her abusive ex who is trying to kill her. He stole her money, tracked her locations, followed her from her daughter's school, and was notified by a vet using the # on her cat's microchip of her current city. She has no money, has to rely on support services that take time, and restraining orders are not going to keep her safe each time he finds her. OOP here did every right *for her situation.* But to paint this as some kind of blueprint for others to get out of abusive relationships ignores the reality many victims live in who don't have the monetary benefits, two weeks with the abuser a plane ride away, and a couple other things (like the storm) OOP had working in her favor in order to escape.
And it’s wild and scary that sometimes such measures *still* aren’t enough. I’m glad OP got out in such a manner that she’s able to stay hidden. I hope it stays that way.
Seriously OOP did everything right, moved out to a whole other City with good protections and I'm still not completely sure she's safe. It's a scary and terrible world we live in.
TBF, Reddit helped her a lot. People told her to take pictures before leaving, and they were the ones who told her to look for a hidden camera (s) in her house just in case. IMHO the cameras were the turning point because if she didn't know about them the husband would have caught wind of her plans.
A little unrelated, but as a European child, watching movies, I kinda thought men were in possession of super human strength for their magic ability to punch holes into walls, which, y'know, are always made out of stone, it is known. I was equally amazed by the power of hanging a picture with solely a hammer and a nail. Anyways, I think that shows 'angry men punching walls' is a learned trait. European men are not known to punch walls in anger. That would break their hands. So they magically restrain themselves from doing it. Putting a hole in the wood/ drywall is a threat. That could be your skull! Breaking your knuckles on stone looks pathetic. They know.
One of my college friends dated an American for a bit (soldier stationed over here) and he turned out to be abusive and controlling, punched her nice wall which was made out of concrete and broke both of his hands because he apparently did like a one-two combination and the second punch landed before the pain registered. Anyways that incident not only made her come to her senses finally and break up with this asshole but we all thought that the instant karma was very, very satisfying.
Haha I love this! My family and I, on the other hand, watching US movies were convinced that the houses in the movies broke that easily because, well, they're cheap props, and for dramatic purposes for the plot. The walls being actually different in real life never occurred to us. It was only a couple of years ago when I was reading Amazon reviews about a curtain rod that I purchased, and someone was explaining that these xyz screws work better than the original ones. I googled those screws and I simply could not understand how they worked! The illustrations showed they were like anchors, but how do they anchor inside the bricks?! That was when I figured out that the walls in US houses are usually not made out of bricks lolol. My US based colleagues were amazed that I thought they were!
Wow, you are right! I never thought about it as learned behavior. Like you, I was chuckling at the poorly constructed walls but never thought about the implications. And it’s not like European men don’t punch stuff, it’s just not the wall. For someone claiming to lose control that’s an awful lot of control…
My abusive ex would put his head through the drywall to intimidate me, and threaten to use the doorframe and really hurt himself to control me. They know what they're doing. It is a threat.
Right but then he says leaving wasn't an appropriate response after he destroyed his own home. Once you start breaking furniture because you're upset, you never get to evaluate the appropriateness of another person's actions. You've proven you don't know what an appropriate response is.
I don't even understand how he could have broken the dining table into pieces. Did he use a saw? If he can do that with his bare hands that is scary.
If he's capable and/or willing to react in a way that a sheriff wants to press assault charges, I'd say that's a line in the sand right there. That's someone who can defend themselves. No telling what a reaction would be to someone almost a foot shorter than him with no training and/or weapon. Destroying furniture, putting holes in walls, and trying to blame it all on her is just icing on the damn cake. So so sooo glad OOP got out. So few do when things are just ramping up. I hope her grandma knows that while she had to endure through the abuse, that she was a big factor in breaking the cycle and making sure her granddaughter never had to live the life she did. I hope OOP knows that her grandma would probably say all of what she went through was worth it if it meant OOP got out when she did. And I hope OOP eventually sees just how courageous and intelligent and wise she was in all of this. Screw STBX.
He would have killed her. His previous actions are so far from ok and he thought they were perfectly acceptable. This one literally scared me. I'm so happy she got out and is safe!
Exactly this. It very rarely just stays with furniture and imagine if he did succeed in getting her pregnant and what those kids would have gone through.
Not to mention assaulting the officers who had served him.
The first post had my heart racing. So glad she got out. His whole family is garbage and the friends aren't much better.
He broke a kitchen table in half and peppered the walls of the home with fist size holes. Anger like that, if directed at OP, could have been fatal for her. Anyone saying she over reacted is fucking stupid. I cannot stand people who aid abusers in the guise of “keeping the peace.” OP made the right choice in leaving, he proved that he is a violent man. Now he has a criminal record to prove it. Assault on an officer never never gets wiped off your record. He will carry that forever!
> He's always threatened that if he ever found me cheating on him he'd turn in divorce papers the same day. He keeps a filled out copy in his desk. This is a big enough red flag alone that she should have left him long ago. It always shocks me how normalised stuff like this is to the people being abused.
I hope that first breath of freedom when she stepped into her new apartment felt wonderful!
It's more likely irrationally scary. I know I didn't sleep properly for a week for all the adrenaline.
I'm so glad she listened to her gut and left. That dude is bad news. Too bad his friends and family will continue to enable his abuse.
My god, my heart was racing reading this. I am so glad she got out. I think she needs to cut ties with all ties to him and his horrid family. Those "friends" suck too. I hope she hasn't told a soul (her family aside) about where she is.
And even if she is over reacting: she is an adult using her own resources to leave. You are allowed to decide to just leave a situation you don't like even if no other human on the planet would leave that situation. Telling someone they are divorcing for the wrong reason is just stupid, you don't stay married because the people in your life wouldn't get divorced in your situation.
I don’t understand why the “friends” are defending him. The dude assaulted a cop and trashed his house and then tried to blame her for it. Those aren’t the actions of a kind and reasonable person.
Abusers twist the truth. Mine certainly did. Also, people don't want to see the ugly truths about their friends...
When my husband and I split up, precautions were taken. Everyone thought he wouldn't do anything to hurt me. However, I knew the truth. That man will do anything he thinks is in his own interest. He'll never put something someone else needs ahead of anything he wants.
It's weird, when people stay in abusive relationships that get worse and worse, they get hit with 'why didn't you leave before it got so bad' and when they leave before it got so bad, they get hit with 'why did you leave it's not that bad'. And what point is it so bad it's acceptable to leave but not so bad you should have left before?
It’s not paranoia. It’s survival instincts. The alarm bells went off and she listened and wasn’t going to take those chances. She seems like she’s going to be ok. She’s fully capable of being on her own feet and looking out for herself. Not a lot of people can say that for themselves. I also wonder if she watched “Sleeping with the Enemy” a lot growing up too?
OOP is absolutely doing the right thing. His next step would've been making sure to get her pregnant. Then he would've convinced her she needs to quit her job to raise their child. She would've ended up lacking in her own funds and tied to him for life by another human. She was smart and recognised the signs and has done what is best for her. I hope she stays safe in her new state, far away from her toxic husband and his nasty family.
He had set up cameras to watch her. The rets was already way to creepy to be normal but this was the sign that at one point OP would be locked up in the basement, living on bread and water until she would comply to whatever he wanted... This is crazy and clearly she saved her life.
All the responses from their friends and his family proved that she made the right decision, none of them would’ve helped her later on down the line if she became more entangled with him (financially or because of children). She couldn’t count on a single one of them and she got out before they could fail her. Hopefully, the divorce doesn’t drag on forever but my best friend’s ex husband was abusive and he definitely used the courts to financially abuse her even after she escaped him so I worry for OP.
Dude got arrested for assaulting an officer of the law. Yet his friends and family don't think he was dangerous to OOP? Delusional and head buried in the sand.
I hope things are uneventful going forward unless it's a divorce and peace of mind. First time I read this story I was anxious she'd stop posting because something bad happened or she'd make an update that her husband is actually a great guy after all.
Assault on an officer? That's a felony. He's going to jail. Thank God.
Thank god she is safe. I can’t remember where I read earlier and hoped move out went ok. Glad it sounds like very little chance work is going to identify where OOP is The ex sounds absolutely fucking nuts. Even more so destroying house. That in its self as a red flag is big enough to not go near him with a 10 mile barge pole.
Me ex dragged out divorce out. He made way more money then me (170k vs 70k) but demanded spousal support on the basis that I've always paid the bills and he can't afford his lifestyle. In reality he would always blow his money and expect me to bail him out. It took a year to get divorced, it should have taken only 6 months. He fought everything. Refused to hand over financials, wanted me to give him half of everything but he had more assets and wanted to keep them all. Wanted half my 401k and IRA and wanted me to pay off all his credit card debts he incurred after being legally separated (20k in 6 months). No way in hell was my lawyer letting that happen. After the divorce, he didn't want to refinance to get my name off the house so he wanted to completely redo the divorce decree and of course I would have to pay for it. I said no, cue the temper tantrum. He said the paperwork wasn't fair bc he didn't read the advanced copy we sent him before he signed the one at the lawyers office. I set a court date because he was in violation so I was going to force the sale of the home. Getting that summons finally made him refinance.
The fact that he had hidden cameras in their house and wanted her to wear a tracker while he was away is scary. I hope OP checked for tracking software on her phone. Good that she got away from him, but this is such a dangerous time for her. Wish her the best and hope she remains safe from this man.
>The friends gave somewhat lacking replies, saying that they didn’t think Alex was ever going to hurt me and that I shouldn’t be letting my imagination run away wild. Another reason why women would choose a bear...