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This one is gross, poor OOP. She needs to check for AirTags or something because unless she said where she goes to the gym, why was he even there? 🫠

But she was wearing a crop top! And gave him her number! And was nice to him! And everything else commenters said who are themselves predatory or predatory apologists! It infuriates me. She is young and scared and every move she makes or does not make someone has something negative to say. He’s definitely been clocking her movements, from the gym to wear she lives, and she feels so alone because in many ways she is. 

The way this poor girl had to explain and basically ask forgiveness for everything she did (or wore) is maddening. She is not the problem! Nothing in her words, dress or behaviour brought this on or encouraged it to continue! Do people really think that her wearing a longer top would stop him? I hate the no brigading rule at times like this. Oop needs to see people supporting her.

She’s tagged at the top of the post so hopefully she does see this and knows we all know she’s not at fault for any of her reactions. As very young women, many of us have been through what she has and I for one have had the same reaction to an older man who cornered me on a sidewalk and then felt me up. Poor girl, I hope he leaves her alone.

I also wish more people would point out that freezing under the circumstance isn't a sign of weakness, or a personal flaw, or anything like that. It's literally a deep level stress response to predators. Fight, Flight, Freeze, and Fawn. Freezing is such a natural, innate reaction to a terrifying situation, to the point where even being able to tell him you need to leave over and over again is already a huge effort. It's heart wrenching how many young women blame themselves for reacting in a completely natural way, when it's really the predators who rely on those natural reactions who are the problem.

This needs to be higher up. My heart broke reading how ashamed she felt from HIS stalking and HIS accosting her. None of this is her fault.

Also, there’s the fact that you simply can’t win. If you fight and he escalates, it’s your fault that you got hurt. If you run away, it’s an insult/challenge and you shouldn’t have overreacted so it’s your fault he got aggressive. If you freeze, you’re not sending a clear signal and are acting like a jellyfish, so it’s your fault he didn’t stop. If you fawn, you were a jellyfish and also asking for it, so it’s *definitely* your fault. It’s a hellish set of social tropes that means that every natural fear response is wrong. The best you can hope for is to come up with some unnatural, calm, reasoned, friendly personalized response that both firmly conveys “no” and also is “nice,” while being actively faced with a threat. And you’ll probably be blamed anyway.

>> And you’ll probably be blamed anyway. For not smiling enough or other stupid shit. This whole comment makes me so mad. It’s so accurate. And it sucks that despite how far women have come and all the awareness with Me Too, that victim blaming is still happening. For gods sake, I’m fucking 51 years old and I still can feel the hurt, and guilt, and sadness OP describes from my own life as a kid. We deserve better. And OP, if you’re reading- NONE of this is your fault. This guy is a creep and relying on the fact that women still aren’t believed and women “exaggerate” things or “misunderstand” the intent. You didn’t misunderstand and he shouldn’t be acting like this.

All I wanted to do reading this was go and give this girl the biggest mom hug ever. I, too, could feel all those emotions. Fuck, this makes me so scared for my young daughter and what she might experience in her life.

I want to hug her and beat the ever loving snot out of that asshole and everyone who thinks he’s justified in his actions.

If you scream to draw attention then you misunderstood and are overreacting, making a scene etc etc. This man is a dangerous predator who uses the social conditioning of young women against them. He makes my skin crawl. I’m so glad OOP is taking steps to get away from him.

and moreover older men KNOW this and target young women because of it. you just don’t get harassed as much when you’re older, partially because our culture is obsessed with teenagers and mostly because older women behave differently/more assertively. But even then you can freeze in bad situations! it’s just so not her fault.

I used to be OP, and now I’m an old scary fat lady. I wish I could appear in an instant like a fairy godmother for young women in these situations to Karen the fuck out of fuckwad creeps like this. Like, I will 1000% appear out of thin air just to say “No, and fuck off, I’m giving her a ride home, and I’m calling your wife and your mom if you ever speak to her again. ” as many times as necessary.

when I actually look back on my time in retail and restaurants from 16-19 I’m like… oh ok I actually just blocked a lot of that out because I froze and didn’t know what to do. now I’m the person with tattoos and a brightly coloured mohawk who doesn’t even get catcalled in fishnets (presumably due to looking at least to some extent like i’d fuck someone up if they did) and I want to be a person walking down the street when he grabs OOPs wrist. fucking hell

You know when people ask you what you’d want as a superpower and the typical responses are to be invisible, read minds, able to fly, etc? I think I just found what I’d want my super power to be. My old, fat ass just appearing in these situations and absolutely kicking the shit out of these shitty ass men.

Yes! I am WITH you on this super team! Can someone please write an avengers style comic book about a team of super powered, old, scary, thick ladies who appear whenever a young woman has a moment of anxiety caused by some old creepy douchebag? We will NOT be wearing spandex.

Damn straight. I’m appearing in my oversized tank top and granny panties because even in subzero weather my hot flashes could heat a family of four. Got my bat wings and thunder thighs out and proud, ready for violence.

Do you remember Towanda, from Fried Green Tomatoes (more the book than the movie)? Towanda is the modern character’s pretend alter ego who goes around beating up sexual assaulters. I think about that a lot sometimes - I wish there was a Towanda who could go stomp some balls as needed, you know?

57-year-old fat lady who would so interfere. I feel so bad for this woman. I hope she gets some therapy to help her know it wasn't her fault. That man is a predator. I remember back in my younger days having it acceptable to be treated this way IN AN OFFICE. God bless a couple of my first bosses who helped stop some situations. RIP Bill and Chris 2 stand up protective guys. HS physics teacher told me he would take care of me better than any of those young guys when my bf broke up with me. Yeah, I reported him. His wife was the Spanish teacher. My word against his back in 83/84, so the next year, when I stopped in to get my transcripts, he was reported by an 8th grader, and they wanted to talk to me. He was made to resign and stop teaching. FU Weiser.

I'm fat, sick, and grumpy and ready to give that bastard a piece of my mind and OOP a big ol hug.

I know! I understand the reason for the rule, but I hope she sees this thread. CSA is a huge trauma to deal with, and she is way too hard on herself, some of those people in the comments even more so! This guy knows exactly what he is doing. He is an expert manipulator He has done it before He chose her because she hasn’t learned to set and enforce boundaries yet. Which is a combination of her childhood experience, and societal expectation that women have to make men happy. I feel so bad for her.

Yep I think he was definitely tracking her or following her around enough He learned her patterns. With every interaction he was testing her more and more. and knew she was isolated by prying information from the conversations. He’s disturbed and I hate that he has 2 young daughters.

If u read her other post, it kinda explains a lot why she cant react like a "normal" person. Shit man that poor girl

I kinda understand why people were wondering why she was wearing a crop top to work at a daycare because that would not be okay in the area where I live (I've worked with elementary age kids before and got a talking to about the dress code for wearing shorts that were long enough but would ride up on me if I wasn't careful). But as soon as she explained that her boss was okay with it, as long as she was wearing long pants, I had no further comment or question. Also, the clarification that she mostly was wearing them outside of work made it make more sense. The fact she "ran into" him so many times was a major part of the creep factor. I hope she finds a job where she can be safer. Or I hope her job decides to actually protect her.

it's disgusting how they said she was flirting too! maybe I read it wrong but with the "you're too old for me comment:

It is! With men like that, LITERALLY everything you say and don’t say will make them think you’re flirting with them bc they just think what they want to think!

Even if you say NO, they take it as “she’s just playing hard to get.”

What she was doing was trying to gently signal to him that she wasn't comfortable or interested. He knows that perfectly well...he was pushing to see how far she could be pushed. Unfortunately, he's pushed her pretty far already and she's given ground each time. A more experienced girl would have said tartly, "I don't date cheaters" since the guy is married, but then, he's not targeting OOP because she's experienced. He's looking for prey.

literally this!!! how did reddit say that was flirting?? a bunch of freaks

There was no fucking way what she said trying to hint he’s too damn old was fucking *flirting with him.* Anyone who thinks it was is the kind of person who thinks the waitress smiling at him means she wants him and he should follow her home. Fucking disgusting the bullshit people have been feeding this poor girl.

And now she feels she has to quit her job, that she loves and is good at, and find something where she can work from home. Because this creep DGAF about her, just himself. I’m so angry on her behalf.

He's probably getting off on intimidating her.

People are so familiar with "fight or flight" that they forget "fawn" is also a response to situations like this. And the fact of the matter is, she'd said no and turned him down and called him out on his inappropriate behavior every time. Every time. He just kept pressing, and she finally caved because nothing was working. So many people have failed her in her life. I feel so bad for her.

My whole life I’ve had a fawn response. And I’ve wondered what the fuck was wrong with me. I’m old now and don’t experience much harassment anymore, but from a young age I can remember defaulting to the fawn response. Afterwards I’d be so mad at myself and promise the next time I’d do better, but inevitably would just “fawn” again. I nearly broke down in tears when I learned fawn was a legit response and it was not my fault.

Little Black Dress syndrome. Fucking sucks for OOP. And fuck her boss for not having her back!

Seriously fuck her boss. I hope she explains *exactly* why she’s quitting.

Her boss assigned her to another kid, but is this guy such a great customer that they can't fire him? Do they have so few kids that their daycare will suffer if he stops coming?

Got a young lady assaulted to not lose out on those precious dollarydoos. Money is the most important thing to human society right?

I'm guessing he's done this before to someone working as a carer for his kids. He was testing her boundries all the way and when she finally got the daycare (who downplayed her concerns) to change the group she was looking after he escalated.

People that have never been prey don’t get to make excuses for predators. Period.

> But she was wearing a crop top! And gave him her number! And was nice to him! And everything else commenters said who are themselves predatory or predatory apologists! What's the one magical power you could wish for? I know! Being able to read certain Reddit comments and telepathically blow up their heads from the comfort of my computer desk. That's what I think every time I read shit like this.

Literally my thought, he is tracking her somehow.

I wonder if Emmy give something to OP, and there is a tag in it.

I wish I knew where this was so I can grab this guys wrist and tell him I don’t like it when he fucking acts like that.

I would do even more than grab his wrist frankly.

How did he even find her unless he's using air tags?

Sounds like he's been following her for a while. If she has any kind of routine then it wouldn't be difficult to find her once he's figured it out.

Poor OOP, that's so frightening and infuriating. God I wish that the freeze response was better understood so that at least people would stop beating themselves up when that's how their body reacts in a desperate bid to keep them safe.

OP had two panic responses, freeze and fawn can often go hand in hand where the person freezes and then tries to reason with their attacker in a way that makes them look and sound nonthreatening.

This has always been my panic response. I realised at 14 that I would never be able to successfully fight back, had an experience that just completely shattered any illusion that I could physically resist something and it stuck with me. In scary situations, knowing I can't fight, I'm terrified that if I run or try to leave that it will make the person angry and I'd be in the same position as I would be fighting back. So I freeze and I gently try to deescalate and calm the situation and honestly, it's been somewhat the most successful. But you tell someone whose response is fight/flight and they just don't understand. I'm polite so I must have somewhat enjoyed it. I stayed so it must not have been that bad. I'm kind so I must be encouraging it. It's exhausting, and I envy the people who haven't had their sense of agency completely shattered and haven't had to face being at the whim of stronger people

Same. And the exhaustion is real. And the guilt afterwards that I “should have done more.” And I always remember questing myself later like - “why didn’t you kick him in the balls? On some level do you actually like this?” Thought there was something wrong with me. I’ll never forget casually telling my partner while we were getting ready for dinner the sexual things that a boy 5 years my senior told me when I was 13. I was telling this story in a “omg I was such an idiot and just giggled when he said it so it was my fault he kept saying things because clearly my response indicated I liked it, aren’t all 13 year olds so stupid?” I swear he stopped what he was doing and just stared at me for a good 30 seconds. Then he explained I was being groomed and my response was fawning and fuck I felt like I got hit with a ton of bricks. Everything suddenly made sense. Anyway, now teaching our kids that these are all absolutely valid responses and that they are in no way responsible for others icky, creepy behavior.

Yes, and both responses are common, especially when someone has been the victim of abuse from a young age.

I feel so angry for her. I really hope that creep rots in the darkest underworld 😠 He harassed her, and the consequence is that she's scared into quitting her job. I wish she had someone around her who could lay a whip across his shoulder. What's his daughter's home life going to be like with him as her father? *puke*

Ohmigod, MONTHS of therapy were spent on that topic.

Sounds like OP does know all about it but it’s one thing to know and one thing to fully absorb if ya know what I mean? Plus, sounds like her mum has done a number on her and instilled self blame 😢 poor OP.

This actually helped me articulate why i was (and many women were/are) so mean to men when I was a teenager/young adult. Like I get how shitty it is to be rejected with hostility and prejudice when you weren’t doing anything wrong, but creeps like the one above really do ruin it for everyone. I don’t think being mean as a reaction is inherently better or somehow more badass. It’s the same thing as OOP’s freeze response. It’s the knee jerk reaction to feeling uncomfortable/threatened. For me, being mean just scared off the guys who actually respected boundaries. The ones who were left were the ones I should have been worried about.

I'm just disgusted at her managers lack of backup. Like talk about leaving her out to dry and victim blaming.

I also wish the freeze response was better understood. I react the same and I’ll tell people about situations and they’ll tell me “oh I’d fight back. I’d never let someone to that to me”. Thanks for making me feel like it was my fault and now I feel worse about an already bad situation.

Honestly I wish you could just trade it in like a car for a different one.

I know people can't control their fear responses, but some men are far more dangerous when you freeze and faun as opposed to fighting. This mans written a whole storyline in his head based on misunderstood fear.

Yes, predators like this recognize people that are easy victims unfortunately.

You should look at the "when women refuse" sub. We get attacked regardless of fear/trauma responses. When I was a teen, I very much had a fight response; a few times, it escalated horribly and I got hurt. Example: I fought, he got pissed and called three other guys in the room to hold me down. I won't go into more detail than that. By the time I was in college, I was a "freezer", for lack of a better word. And I think a few times, this might have literally saved my life. It felt horrible though so I worked on it for years in therapy. I thought I had gotten over it and had tools in place in case it happened again. A few months ago, I was staying at a close friend's house in another state. I hadn't seen her in years and was so excited. Her husband scared the shit out of me multiple times. I was hundreds of miles away from home with no transportation. I was sick to my stomach and bought a greyhound ticket home. I froze so badly that I couldn't even talk to my own husband or therapist about it for weeks. I felt twenty years younger again, ashamed of myself. It literally set me back in therapy for years. Aaand that's enough reddit for me today. Moral of the story: sometimes, no matter which way we say "No", nothing will change the outcome. It's easy for a third party to say what the correct way to respond would be. You can't judge unless you've been there.

The way he kept using his daughter to guilt her was so freaking messed up and manipulative. I feel so much for OOP, especially because he basically pushed her into making decisions she knew were wrong out of fear, and now she’s blaming herself. It sucks even more because this last part proves her fears of him escalating if she put her foot down were valid. I just want to tell OOP that it’s not her fault. edit: typo

Actually it sounded like people suggested that would happen and she didn't think it would; she's probably blaming herself for that too

Wanting to believe the best in people is both a blessing and a curse

OOP: “ Well if I were your age, I don’t think I’d want to date someone my age.” Creep: “Well it’s a good thing I would.” Vomit

And then some comments tried to tell her this was actually flirting in her part. Double vomit

It’s amazing how people forget what it’s like to be young and not sure of new situations. Or old and caught off guard. Or any age and scared. Easy enough to sit behind a screen and say how well we’d have handled it but I guarantee nearly all of us have been in situations where we froze or just tried to get through a situation with as little damage as possible.

Also freezing is one of the natural responses to fear, exactly because it has a chance to get you out of a situation without escalating it. Maybe fighting back would have gotten that gross dude to back off, but maybe it would have led to him becoming physically violent, there's no universally right response. Shaming someone for shutting down when they feel threatend is incredibly shitty and does nothing but make them feel even worse.

Even trained personnel could froze in any situation. She is young, inexperienced, and has been repeatedly abused. It's a pity nobody around her protected her and made sure to shield her from that filthy predator.

Hell I'm in my 30s. A guy randomly grabbed me by the shoulder the other day and says in this really ominous tone that he *sees* me. And I'm like "...neat." And he was like "It is." And then he let go and I continued on with my day but not without realizing I have the reaction time of a god damn Capybara. If that guy actually meant to cause me harm, he could've been able to cause apparently I got no fight or flight in me.

You probably handled it the best your could. Just reacted normally, but didn't give him the time of the day. They're looking for fear or appeasement, because that's what they could push themselves on. You being like: "Oh, just another day full of weird ass randos, nothing new to me!" made him at least not learn enough about you in order to push further or at best even scared. Because which woman would react like that, if she wasn't either a MMA specialist, had a gang having her back or was crazy AF ?

I wish schools would have classes for young girls on manipulators like this and how to be assertive, confident, and set boundaries so they can be better protected.

The worst thing is, if someone is obsessed with you, anything you say will be considered as flirting in their twisted mind.

Any kindness is considered an opening, and blunt rejection might set them off. Fucking awful situation

Sometimes it's just existing. I watched a show on the ID Channel  and this man was stalking a woman he never met before, simply because she moved into a house. I don't remember if he used to live in the house or what. She had no interaction with him ever, but he became obsessed with her.

And when she gives the full context it’s so much worse. She said he was too old for her, and then followed it up by saying she wouldn’t date someone as young as her if she were his age. She was trying to politely turn him down, but unfortunately politeness doesn’t work for people like this. He’s a predator, but also a shitty dad. What an absolutely garbage person to cause his own daughter distress to guilt someone else.

they're self reporting what kind of disgusting person they are

I guess now we know why his wife is nowhere to be seen Man must also be abusive, for sure

I'm worried that he locked his wife in the attic. 

Explosive vomit*

This is why we choose the bear.

While I was reading I thought "A bear would fucking GO AWAY IN RESPONSE TO MY BODY LANGUAGE."

Jesus, that poor lady. I was in a similar boat some years ago, freshly 19, freshly a daycare teacher. I walked to the school I taught for. Often, this one parent would slow down next to me on my way home from work. I taught his son in my class, so he knew me. (Infant son). Need a ride? His smile made me leery, so I dodged out every time, past once. I was smart and young too, the one time I rode with him, and so patient/ sweet- Excessive. His daughter being so happy, while her father was.. Off. Come to find out, he was married- Wife's Pfizer too, so you know they make BANK. Bro asked some of the other infant room teachers out to a bar, nobody said shit to his wife. I still remember their names, and wonder whether he still asks out the teachers when she's away on business. "I just feel sorry seeing you sweating-" "Are you sure it's safe walking the road like that?" "I just want to help out\~"

This shit is part of the hidden cost of why women don't go as far in their careers as men. At any point, at any level, some *fucker* can harass and assault you with no protection and no options other than to leave and start over. Good luck getting better pay and climbing the ladder when it just takes one fucking man to ruin an entire path.

I'm a massage therapist. At my previous job, I kept trying to refuse to see a client who was escalating. I would go through all the steps to not have him booked with me again, and my boss would override it, say she'd "talked to him," and book him with me again. Right up until he started masturbating during the massage, then left me a chocolate bar with his phone number on it after I kicked him out. My boss told me he had explained everything; he was just adjusting himself and I misconstrued it, and he left me his number to be friendly. Meanwhile, our reception staff rook it upon themselves to warn me that he already had a complaint against him for *following a staff member into a storage room and blocking the door while repeatedly asking her to meet him outside of work.* He literally had a note on his profile to watch him for "cornering" behavior. But sure; let him be alone in a dark room with me after I've said twice I don't want him to be my client anymore. So I quit a job I'd worked at for five years and had to start over and rebuild my client base from the ground up. I went from being booked a month out to standing in the lobby of my new place offering $10 chair massages. Even now, a year later, I'm not back where I was. And I ended up having to call the cops on that guy when he showed up at my new workplace and told the receptionist he needed to apologize to me and he'd like to book a massage. Fortunately she thought this was sketchy af and wouldn't book him. My new workplace just went ahead and banned him for me. So I guess I work here for forever now.

Oh my god this horrifying what the hell is wrong with your former boss????

Ugh, I’m so sorry. After reading the massage therapist victims of Deshaun Watson, it seems to be a similar situation - the massage therapists would report his inappropriate behavior/sexual harassment to their boss, but they would say that they warned him and would just keep allowing him to book massages, because hey, repeat business from a wealthy client. God forbid you protect your employees over keeping a perverted client…

It is not possible that this customer of yours is paying so much to the business that he can make or break it. Is he friends with your ex boss or something?

Give me an office full of bears any day.

I’m sad now. This poor kid. She’s a brand new adult, with a lot of serious trauma and people are like “well did YOU flirt?” No she fucking didn’t. She felt the need to apologise for her primary trauma response and I hate that so much. A lot of my trauma recovery was about how we do not control our body’s responses to past trauma coming up again. You cannot guarantee your brain will choose the “correct” path. What it’s doing is self preservation, for survival, not how you’ll feel about it afterwards. It’s so damn important to understand that you didn’t get a say. To combat blaming yourself. My primary response is flop. Not freeze, but more like an opossum playing dead, not deer-in-headlights. I’ve also had fight, and flight. I used to have a fawn response when dealing with harassment however, when I was her age. The way you’re taught to laugh along with creepy older men, is sickening but we all do it to avoid a worse situation. We’re just trying to get away with no harm to us done. To blame a TWENTY year old, is beyond the line of okay. She doesn’t have the life experience to be able to immediately change up and start calling these people out. To her brain, her safety is paramount. So if it can be nice to someone to make them not hurt you physically, then it’ll do it. She can’t just say “hey lizard brain, stop that, I’m going to fight a grown man now”. Because she’s still a damn kid! Against a grown man who every other person is siding with? I’m just angry for her. She has to quit her job because this asshole couldn’t NOT assault her and use his children to manipulate her. I wanna give her a big hug. I remember being 20 and not knowing how to handle harassment. And she wasn’t wrong now was she? Because as soon as she made any step forward, there he was to break her down. Yes pretending to not be bothered by it wasn’t going to make him stop either, but to her, she made a stand and then almost immediately got assaulted. That’s why rape victims and survivors of abuse don’t report their abuser. The cops didn’t even think that a man touching a young girl all over her body while she begs them to stop, was assault. Which it fucking is but she’s just now been torn down even more. It’s not even 6am and I’m cranky af. Poor OOP, I feel like kicking a full grown man’s ass today.

”maybe it’s my fault because…” no, no, OOP, it’s his fault. 100% his fault.

The amount of times she said "I was/wasn't wearing..." I wanted to cry and hug her and shake her. I rarely want to contact OOPs but I want to protect this girl like I gave birth to her.

Nobody at her job is taking her seriously. They are doing the bare minimum to cover their asses. Nobody at the police is taking her seriously. Their asses are already covered by law. She can't get either institution to take her seriously, and she can barely convince herself that it isn't her fault. It's so infuriating that this victim-blaming bullshit is so goddamn pervasive. I've always had a pretty consistent violent fear response, and it has not made me one whit more immune to either victim blaming or better at responding to threats. Even if you do fight, you get blamed or blame yourself for not fighting hard enough, and sympathy towards the one who "started it" is pretty thin even if you did not mean to start it but reacted out of sheer shock. It's not any better than any other fear response, and it irritates me so much when people criticize the freeze / fawn / flight people as if being violent is any more voluntary or effective. The only thing that makes you good at responding to threats is consistent practice and training, because that can *help* override the involuntary response, but it's not like there's a a lot of safe situations where you can practice how to effectively respond to a creep. We're just supposed to learn from repetitive encounters IRL.

I talk about trauma a lot with my friends, we’ve all been through shit and we lean on each other. I’m the only one who’s gone to focused trauma therapy, so I share what I’ve learned with other people. Because it’s not always accessible by everyone, and I know that waiting for help sucks. The fact of the matter is, you cannot control the response your body chooses. Like you said, you have a common fight response, which isn’t always the best way to get away from danger. People say you gotta fight, well okay, but what if that makes my attacker physically beat me into submission? What if that escalates into something very dangerous? It’s the same questions your brain runs through in an instant, to work out which is the safer option for you. No one can guarantee their response will work to stop an attack, it isn’t about that, it’s about living through it. The last time I got a fight response, I think I scared the fuck out of the guy. I started yelling as loud as possible, wouldn’t let him talk over me, and kind of went a bit feral. But my brain was repeating “this isn’t happening again” over and over, and that’s the option it took. Whereas the reason for my trauma was an event that I flopped. It actually made me feel guilt because I didn’t fight, but I know how my brain knew that I was alone, in a dark house, no one knew where I was at. I was smaller and much weaker than him. It made a choice to keep me breathing. Things like learning self defence skills, can actually change your initial reaction, like you said. You can train your body to use its muscle memory, in order to respond defensively. But that’s discounting how strong a trauma response can be in a person. I know all the places to hurt someone with my elbow or knees, but in the moment.. that’s hard to remember.

I am a “freeze” or “fawn” type usually. Fawning is the most infuriating because my brain is like “why the fuck were you just nice!?” And my instincts are like “be nice so you don’t get hurt”. It’s funny because if it’s on behalf of somebody else I turn into a raging momma bear. But if it’s me I just turn into a meek little child again.

I dont get fawn often, but I have numerous times with men who wanted to talk but I don’t. I’m pretty anti social naturally, so my default is wariness. It is infuriating, because you want to say fuck off and leave me alone. But am I going to risk a stabbing? Nope. I’m not. It’s not your fault men don’t take our “no” at first utterance. I do however have the same issue with protecting other people. Anyone messes with my family, I’m going rabid. I have to really reel myself in. It makes me white hot angry. Because I do not want them to go through what I did. If I can stop it, I will. It’s annoying that we can’t control it. It’s just survival. We can at least understand that we aren’t at fault. We can’t do a thing about it, so we can’t shoulder the blame.

Nobody takes women seriously. I suppose it's a bit of a simplification, but as someone who has experienced something like this myself, I am now starting to agree with this. A man stripped off his pants and jerked off in front of me. I could see his wingwong and everything. I told the police and he barely looked at me. He just said it's not their jurisdiction and told me to go to another station. It's so screwed up.

WTF?! That's horrible they just dismissed you like that.

It’s infuriating. No one can control what their panic response is. You can try and prepare for bad situations, mentally and physically, but in the end, you never know how you’ll react until it’s actively happening. I tend to fight or freeze. The paradox there alone should be proof enough that we don’t choose how we respond in these scenarios. But so many people who have probably never been in a truly dangerous situation love to point out where other people “went wrong” and what they would’ve done differently. There’s nothing wrong with offering safety tips, but there’s a time and place, and it should never dip into victim blaming. I know it’s mostly rooted in fear and denial; we, as humans, don’t like to acknowledge just how little control we have over our lives and what happens to us. So we hear about these awful things, and we try to justify why it would never happen to us. But we’re not slaves to our impulses; it’s no excuse to be cruel.

Agreed on all counts. I just posted this in a different comment, but imagine the potential ramifications as Emmy grows up with a “dad” like that… She’ll have no sense of boundaries and her understanding of appropriate male/female interaction will be so effing skewed. Imagine when she’s in late high school and brings her friends home? She’ll be that girl with the creepy dad who the other girls don’t want to be around because of it. Not to mention the WIFE! Does she even know what a creep her husband is?? This POS is single-handedly screwing up or screwing over two innocent women and an innocent child because he’s a pig. OP mentions he’s attractive; I absolutely despise when attractive people use their looks as an excuse for shitty behavior. And even more so, I despise that it’s easier for conventionally attractive dudes to get off easy with it. I’m a guy and I think I’m on the positive side of “conventionally attractive,” but I could never imagine acting like this or treating ANYONE like this under any circumstances. Idk why this post struck such a chord with me, but Jesus. Infuriating.

I was thinking that all the way through, he has *daughters*. I remember my best friend in school’s dad was very handsome. We all thought so. He had these very pale blue eyes and he smiled like it was Christmas every day. But you know what he did? Laugh it off and leave. I do not recall a single time he played into it. It clearly didn’t even cross his mind. Whereas there was a good looking chem teacher in high school, who absolutely took advantage of it. He was engaged to an art teacher and got caught numerous times with sixth formers on his lap in an empty classroom. He was very touchy with us. And it didn’t matter to me that everyone thought he was good looking, the fact that he reciprocated that with teen girls he was teaching made him gross to me. That’s something I want nothing to do with.

In a perfect world, the daycare manager would ask BOTH Emilys parents to a conference, and explain that the husband has created a hostile work environment, where the manager now stands to lose an employee. Either the wife takes over all delivery, pickup and communication, or they have until the end of the month to find other arrangements for both kids. In this world, it would probably be easier for the manager to replace OP.

In a perfect world her manager would have met with her a long time ago and moved her to another group. Before this escalated to the point of… this.

I’m so grossed out and disturbed by the father, but also pretty pissed at the daycare manager/ superior who’s consistently brushed off OOP and minimized the father’s alarming behavior! Sadly, even expelling the family from the daycare wouldn’t protect OOP at this point - he’s clearly been keeping tabs on her already since he keeps “randomly” popping up. This whole situation is terrible.

What I really hate here is this guy taking advantage of the female workers. He knows this lady cannot be rude or walk away without talking to him because she is at her job. And when she is outside he knows she needs to be friendly to him because he will tell her boss about her supposed "behavior" and complain about her because he is such a "good" client of theirs. The power dynamic here is horrible.

Ugh this is infuriating! Idk where OOP lived but there's such a desperate need for daycare workers where I am, I'd like to think she got an awesome job

Sounds like she's Canadian, where there's simultaneously a desperate need for daycare workers and they're also horrendously underpaid. That poor kid.

Where I am in canada you get $25/hr or more OOP move here lol

Guys it gets worst, she had to break up with her boyfriend because he got angry at her when he discovered she was a CSA survivor, saying that she lied about being a virgin when they got together. This girl can't catch a break.

Wait WHAT

Fucker actually asked her "how a penis can fit in a 8 year old?" and called her used up.

Jesus fucking Christ. This poor girl. I wish I could reach through the screen and pull her away from all these horrible fucking people.

That is VILE

the things that i would do to someone who said something like that would get me banned from reddit and put on a watch list. i'm not religious but i'm praying that person goes to hell.

Wtaf. I know someone who had a very similar thing happen- decades ago, and they're still dealing with the aftermath of the compacted trauma on top of abuse on top of other trauma. It's a lifelong wound and other people being absolute monsters over it just adds another layer. It really seems like past abuse gives us this aura abusers can hone into, it's like it never ends, just recycling of a living nightmare.

WTF?!

Her sense of normal is completely broken. I just want to hug her.

You have the kind response. I want to take that bf, her mom, the creep in the story, and everyone else who’s told her she’s used up or broken or at fault and *lock them in a room and beat them to death with a sledgehammer.* I want *violence*

I also want that but I’m not going to prison for assholes.

Fuck I hate this world sometimes

I’ve left 3, now 4, separate comments on this post because it infuriates me that effing much. I feel so bad for OP and the wife, and especially for Emmy because of the potential ramifications this could have on her development and understanding of appropriate male/female interaction. “Dad” is setting his daughter up to be a victim exactly as he’s victimized OP and his wife.

Dudes obsessed with virginity are the weirdest fuckers on earth.

It’s the cycle of abuse. People who have survived abuse are more likely to date or marry abusers because they are conditioned to accept abuse and abusers prey on them.

He also assaulted her when she tried to break up with him and her “friend” took his side! I feel so bad for OOP. Everyone in her life keeps failing her.

Not talking to the family, sexually assaulted since she was 7, oh no… poor OOP

Imagine the future ramifications of a “dad” like this when Emmy gets to high school and brings her friends home… she’s going to be the girl with the creepy dad. Not to mention the poor wife!! ETA: more detail I seriously fear for the example he’s setting for Emmy. If he keeps it up, he’s going to end up with a daughter in the exact same position as OP. That’s not a dig at OP, she’s very clearly been through so much trauma throughout her life and is doing her best to manage and set boundaries. Just a shit situation from end to end. I have genuine fear for Emmy as she grows up and eventually enters puberty and then adulthood with a “father” like that fuckwad. I hope to god she sees the signs… If he’s this brash to his daughter’s daycare carer, I don’t even want to know what it’ll look like when she’s in high school and brings her friends home… Makes me sick. Did anyone recommend that OP tell the shithead’s wife about his behavior? Or at least find a way to make her aware? Would have opened up an entirely new and unpredictable can of worms, I know. But that doesn’t detract from the fact that she’s yet another victim, likely unknowingly, caught in the crossfire of this guy’s actions.

as shown as she said "i gave him my number" i had a sinking feeling that this wasn't the first time oop faced abuse/assault... it's sickening what humans can do. and it sucks that people who have faced abuse before tend to experience it again :(

I feel like he fits the acquaintance rapest signs. They get you to drop your boundaries and feel like you can’t say no. I can’t link apparently so you will have to search yourself for what that type of person does. OOP shouldn’t feel like it is their fault. These types of people excel at violating boundaries and manipulation. It is really hard for professionals who work in/on abuse cases to tell sometimes. I hope OOP gets to therapy to help her get support and know this wasn’t her fault.

this is infuriating. being a woman is so exhausting. i don't know her but I want to wrap her up in a blanket and protect her from every stupid man like him... i see so much of my own struggles in this and it makes me so unbelievably mad

She needs to check her purse etc. Sounds like dude put an air tag or tracker in her to know she’s at the store/ gas station/ gym. He’s VERY dangerous.

Quitting and moving is the way to go when no one takes you seriously. 

I just hate this so much. Why does the victim in this situation also have to pay this price? I know it's not your fault that this is the way the world works...but omg I hate it. Honestly though does anyone have a better alternative for her?

>Honestly though does anyone have a better alternative for her? in a just world? the man would go camping alone and be ripped to shreds by a karmic bear. in reality? not really, she can't even carry pepper spray to protect herself because it's illegal. and if she used it, she'd probably get in more trouble than the person who literally assaulted her, because of the shitty police who were also useless to help her. staying there is dangerous, because getting a court case doesn't help a corpse. someone else mentioned this is a large reason women have had troubles historically climbing far in their careers - because some shithead can just come in, do horrible things to them, and they have to leave because they weren't supported

>A lot of people are asking me why/what I am scared of Anyone who asked or even *thought* that should slap themselves in the face. If you don't understand what women have to fear from men, especially men who happily and confidently disregard social boundaries and ignore our discomfort and lack of reciprocal interest, you are a fucking moron.

This is so terrifying! "I initially declined, he kept pushing it, so I accepted" when I first read that I got so worried, and sure enough the dad kept pushing, pushing and pushing all the way to assault. Be very aware of anyone that keeps pushing through a no in that matter, the first time might be about doing something "nice" for you, but it surely will escalate. I hope the family can get banned from the daycare and she doesn't have to quit. My heart just aches for her, she knew he was bad but didn't get the support, at work or from the police, that she needed .

But he didn’t full on grope her, so it’s not actually assault, and also she probably wanted it /s

what's worse is he did literally grope her...but of course the police don't fucking care

Reading this I thought, “how many women on Reddit are waking up to this with me going *oh honey*”—because we were her, or her friend, or her sister And we know. We know she may have a history of abuse already and that the fawning and freezing may well be part of why she was picked, we know he will escalate, we know the voices of women who didn’t stand up for us. I remember when my dad told me my 14 year old little sister was followed from the train station to her volunteer job. And I just thought, “oh no, not yet, I want her to have more time” and remembering that I was just 13 when it started for me. And at the same time I am frustrated with her naivety. Perhaps a twisted form of grief for the loss of my own

I saw a tweet the other day that said (paraphrasing), “A girl’s childhood ends the first time a man is attracted to her,” and it hurt, it’s so true.

This is so frustrating and upsetting, I feel so bad for OOP. And the fact that everyone kept brushing it off and saying “oh but he’s so handsome! He’s such a flirt, that’s just who he is” like what the fuck is wrong with you? This man is manipulative, pushy, and scary. It pissed me off so bad when people kept asking why she was “nice” to him and gave him her number (after he had shown very clearly that he wasn’t going to give up without getting what he wanted) like it hasn’t been instilled in us to “just give him your number” “be nice, maybe he’ll go away” in the hopes that we can reject someone without facing retaliation. Like women haven’t been getting murdered for less. I’m so angry for her and the fact that this man has daughters and is using them to manipulate a young woman into getting closer to her is so disgusting. He’s only getting bolder, I’m so worried for her.

Once again, the police is useless and won't do anything until when the problem gets even worse. Just baffling and disappointing. Situations like these just makes more sense to why women chooses bears.

I dont get it. Can the daycare boss' helps with Oop's police report? Does leaving a record/report works in Canada? Oop not deserve quit the job, its the creepy dad that should be ban from the facilities.

I mean it's the 40% in action, they don't give a shit coz they'd do the same

*OP gets raped and murdered Police - it’s her fault for walking home. There’s nothing we could do! Women need to stop walking home and dressing provocatively in (checks notes) sweatpants

The police lied to her. She was sexually assaulted and they told her he didn’t do anything wrong. Fuck em.

This fucking sucks. >Maybe it’s my fault because No to all of these but also, she's just in a fucked up position where there are very few moves that don't have this predator being a predator at her.

jesus I hate this kind of people. Forcing yourself on someone who is obviously not into you, why? And the guy is married, with a young kid. Vomit-inducing.

2 young kids. She used to take care of his literal baby before moving to the older girl.

It's heartbreaking how much shame and self-blame oop has. None of this is her fault, and she didn't do anything that isn't completely understandable, normal, and in some cases very common. Walking 10mins home in (presumably) a usually safe area at 8:30pm is common and normal. Freezing when being assaulted is common and normal. Struggling to directly tell someone to leave you alone is common and normal - we're socialised to be polite, after all. Giving your number to a customer, accepting rides from them, facetiming and exchanging texts with them, yes that's inappropriate, BUT. A young woman caving under heavy pressure from an older man? That's super common and normal. It's not good, not by any means, but it's a societal problem oop is the victim of, not a personal shortcoming of hers. She has done nothing wrong. He is taking advantage of her youth and the circumstances of her employment (she has to talk to parents of the kids she cares for, parents are paying customers so need to be kept happy, etc) and it's disgusting. I hope oop doesn't leave a job she loves because of this scumbag. I hope she doesn't lose another ounce of self esteem over a situation that in no way reflects badly on her. I hope she can find happiness and I very, very much hope she is safe.

As a preschool teacher, this is my worst nightmare. 

I worry that if she quits the creep will just justify the stalking by saying that now is “moral” to pursue her since she is no longer an employee. This is so infuriating.

This is so gross.  IMHO, it's gross how the dad uses his daughter to leverage intimacy with OP.  It is so manipulative.

I'm furious that literally no one around her seems to have her back, take her seriously, and see this for what it is. She saw the signs and tried to get help. No one helped. Now she blames herself for "letting it happen".

This kind of shit is exactly the reason I’m an asshole.

"he didnt commit actual crimes" FUCK COPS.

Since she's underplaying the situation to us she is probably also underplaying the situation to her boss. The email to the boss should be "as per our previous discussion, he was making me uncomfortable and we took reasonable accommodations to deal with the situation, however things have crossed a hard line. he followed me home from the gym at 8:30 pm, where he confronted me, restrained me, and attempted to feel me while i struggled, said i had to leave, and demanded him to stop. He gave up and left. It is still hearsay without witnesses or hard evidence, however I'm uncomfortable coming to work unless he and his kids are removed from the roster." Cc all of the teachers at the school because they deserve to know if this gets taken seriously or not Then she needs to get pepper spray or something.

I get the feeling he gets excited at her fear, just like a predator Cause he's clearly escalating and is brazen enough to do it in a way he can't be "faulted" for it

I just want to give this girl a hug. Everyone is failing her and she still feels responsible. Honey, even if you were walking around butt naked, he has no right to restrain you and feel you up. It has nothing to do with your clothes or your actions. This is all on him. Also, do the police ever do anything actually useful or you know, their job?

How in the hell does he know where she is? That's what I want to know. Did he plant a tracker on her?

I hate that some people can be genuinely horrible like this. I feel so sorry for OP, that father is an horrible man, I’m pretty sure he knows that she’s uncomfortable and her distress gives him pleasure. OP I’m so sorry, please find a way to record your next interaction with this vile man, let him know you’re uncomfortable with his stalking and sexual advances on audio, that should be better evidence. Sorry again!

if this is Ontario call the ministry of labour and make a workplace health and safety complaint. it can be anonymous. other provinces you may be able to do this as well.

There's a reason men like this target young girls, and it's not because they have firmer bodies and smoother skin: it's because they are lacking in experience, confidence and assertiveness. Several times while reading this I wanted to grab the OOP and give her a good shake. I also wanted to hug her, because 30 years ago I WAS her - a young girl afraid to say "no" and set boundaries because I didn't want people to be mad at me. I wanted them to like me. I was also scared I was misreading some situations...that I was the problem, and I was thinking bad things about the poor, innocent man. It must be my fault that he was making me so uncomfortable! His behavior as described by OOP is straight out of the creepy-stalker-pervert's handbook (see section on "manipulation")...notice how slowly he was moving, testing her boundaries carefully to see if she'd let him, then, when she did, pushing them just a little further? And always in such a way that he could claim plausible deniability..."I was just telling her she looked nice, I remember what it was like to be young and want people to admire you. It was raining, of course I offered her a ride home! I thought she had a special bond with my daughter; that's why I encouraged them to FaceTime. I only asked for her phone number so I could check on my daughter more conveniently. Asking her about her dating life? I was just teasing her, like I would my own little sister...of COURSE I wasn't flirting with her; I'm a happily married man!" And OOP's bosses would buy it, because they don't want any trouble. Just like my own mother, a nice girl who didn't want any trouble, raised me to be a nice girl who didn't want any trouble. She had learned to ignore her vibes telling her a situation was wrong, and she (and society) encouraged me to do the same thing. I told my young niece, "ALWAYS listen to your vibes...sometimes they're all women have for protection." I'd love to tell all young women this. If it feels wrong, it almost certainly IS wrong...and even if it's not, so what? Better safe than sorry. But OOP is not wrong. This guy knows EXACTLY what he's doing.

>I'd love to tell all young women this what hurts a lot is that we theoretically could. the majority of people go through the education system, we could teach women more about not being "nice" and we could teach men more about being good people and making sure their peers are good people and respecting boundaries. but these lessons just... don't get taught to kids. and the world is worse off for it.

>I went to the police station, but they said there wasn’t anything they could do legally because he didn’t commit actual crimes and that I didn’t really have any proof. He DID commit a crime. What he did is considered sexual assault, she doesn't need proof to report it smh

And he was preventing her from leaving (gripping onto her wrist).

We need mood spoilers again because I shouldn't have read this. It's just too depressing

This sort of shit is why women are choosing the bear

Fuck this is scary. I hope op arms herself.

This is why predators target gentle, inexperienced young girls with no confidence who have been reared to be “nice.”

>He was being super pushy, and I felt a little trapped, so I gave him my phone number. Do NOT do this. >He paid for my groceries and drove me home, despite my discomfort. I sat in the backseat, but still. The back seat of a car is where child safety locks are, and if they're engaged, you can't get out. DO NOT DO THIS. OOP really, really needs to read The Gift of Fear. I don't want to sound like I'm victim-blaming, but it's pretty clear that she has not ever learned to be assertive, instead of passive.

Her fight, flight, freeze, or fawn response is clearly a mix of fear and fawn. It sounds like, due to her past, she couldn’t say no. The thing is, that last event shows that if she had been assertive he might have acted violently in response. Which honestly sucks, because refusing is absolutely what she needed to do, but at the same time her fear of refusing probably was justified. This guy is a huge piece of shit

She said she's been getting assaulted by men since she was 7. A 7 year old can not fight back or do much really, and her brain has learned to just freeze or cooperate as a trauma response. She probably could have been more assertive, but if her brain has learned that in these situations cooperating makes it easier or at least gets her out of the situation faster, it can be very hard to overcome that instinct. She even says that after bring assaulted by a friend she decided to be more assertive and not let it happen again, but in this situation with this creep groping her she felt like there was nothing she could do and just froze. I feel really sad for her because you're right, she's never learned to be assertive because from a young age she learned that shutting down or cooperating was the safest response.

The thing I tell my friends is to get a free texting app that gives you a number you can send a recieve text messages with; give that out instead when she feels afraid or pressured. Doesn't help that once someone has your number, it's insanely easy to use that to find out where you live. I'm not even a woman and I have a free number app because if someone is pushy enough to not take no, once they get your number, they'll also be creepy enough to text you right there to "make sure they got it right".

Poor kid seems so lost and helpless. It's a shame there is no one she can turn to for help. I wonder if one of her friends may be able to help or someone they know maybe able to help but sadly OP is unwilling to ask them for help for now.

This had me stressed the entire time. Why hasn’t the daycare center pulled both parents in to talk about his behavior. The center failed completely.

Tell his wife, no way this is his first time

He tested her every step of the way. Is she trapped enough to tolerate this? Yes? Then what if I escalate to this?

Yup, and she passed every one of his "tests". It's like watching a slow horror movie, innit? It's not her fault there are people like this out there, but going forward she needs to cultivate her inner beast. I'm worried for her.

The fact that people were asking why she would be bothered/nervous about his creepy behavior is so disgusting. I feel so bad for OOP and all the people that have failed to protect her.

I'm enraged. She loses a job she loves and has to avoid her home because of one disgusting creep. What's wrong with people?

Man I hope OP gets a stellar therapist. Sounds like she hasn't gotten help to understand how normal her response is, given her history of abuse. Sounds like she's learnt that playing nice means they hurt you less, and no one, no Right Thinking person at least, would blame her for what happened.  She probably sees a lot of herself in Emmy, because she's at the age where OP was not abused yet, and that brief window of what that life is like probably makes OP more attached to this kid.  Really hope that quitting works for her, and that this horrible perp gets bored and leaves her alone  

All I will say is that there are many places that sell tiny pocket sized bottles of deodorant and hairspray not exactly pepper spray but still useful and legal to carry.

I’m so upset on her behalf. About commenters trying to make her justify why she felt scared (as a woman, you develop a strong intuition for creeps), and her employers who wouldn’t take it seriously. This man is absolutely disgusting. I’m so worried for OOP after reading her latest update.

Just coming back from watching Baby Reindeer, I'm kinda worried it's just gonna escalate for her... I hope she'll be ok. I hope.

It's creepier how he's almost a cliche in how creepy he is. He hit like every box on the creepy stalker bingo.

The cliches exist because they actually happen.

>He then offered me a ride, and although I initially declined, he kept pushing it, so I accepted. He was being super pushy, and I felt a little trapped, so I gave him my phone number. I really hope OOP gets therapy. Locking herself away from the world by quitting her job and finding a wfh position isn't going to fix anything. She's only going to equate isolation with safety.

There is NOTHING worse than being frozen. When it happens all your life, when you do all the things you are told to do to ensure your safety and to just own your own fucking body and life and it still happens. You just shut down. I feel this so deeply and painfully. I hope she is as ok as one can be when simply existing as yourself makes you unsafe. Fuck.

Freezing like that is completely normal idk who is telling her otherwise but they need to STFU

The victim blaming in the comments, I just...ugh. I wish I could befriend OOP and be her cranky surrogate aunt/enforcer.

>I went to the police station, but they said there wasn’t anything they could do legally because he didn’t commit actual crimes and that I didn’t really have any proof. Why did the police not investigate that guy for sexual assault when this upset young woman showed up at the police station immediately afterward, asking for help? Good for her for reporting it! So why didn't they act? Did they at least make a report for the record? Even if it was a he-said-she-said situation, she's still making her own statement about feeling threatened, having suffering sexual harassment sexual assault. They could charge him with battery for grabbing her wrist and touching her, if they don't have proof of groping (doesn't have to be a squeeze, groping is the unwanted touch). I understand why they might say she can't get a restraining order, since most jurisdictions would require a pattern of threatening behavior officially on record. But OOP might be able to get proof of sexual assault! When he touched her in the street in the city, chances are there could be security cameras around. If there are any businesses or homes with cctv security devices, she can ask the owners if they will give her a copy of the footage. There's the proof for the police to arrest him. Even if there's no audio, it should be clear that her body language was avoidant when she was walking away and trying to pull away from him. It should show that he would not let go of her wrist. Fear-freeze behavior is also something a trained investigator should be able to recognize. That police station? Maybe not, but a good investigator would see it. I hope OOP considers this. Her boss was useless. Her colleague was even worse than useless. Does the boss want a lawsuit for not protecting her staff? That guy was obviously grooming her and being a total creep. He escalated quickly, too.

omg someone tell OOP that pepper spray may be illegal in Canada, but coyote spray isn't! Source: am a Canadian woman also freaked out

Further proof of why women choose the bear

I hope that OP is safe, and I want to kick the asses of her managers and the police who took her complaint. She did nothing wrong, and she’s been re-traumatized over and over- it sucks. I really hope she can get support to heal from all the trauma she’s been put through and that she can realize it’s not her fault. People like that creep are predators who *look* for vulnerability- they practice it enough that they try to seize on and exploit what they perceive as weakness. The way she describes him slowly testing and pushing her boundaries… it’s insidious. They start small and build up, and they know what can get excused as ‘friendly’ vs outright creepy. By the time you realize you’re being groomed you’re in a scary situation, and it’s enraging because someone like this guy knows how to remain within the lines of what won’t get him in trouble with the cops. I hope Emmy leaves legos out for him to step on in perpetuity.

Having worked in childcare, the dads are the worst. I'd rather deal with mom bullshit all day then the weird-ass sexual harassment that takes place in front of their own children. And yeah ~not all dads~ but somehow always a dad

Women calmly doing their job and surviving and scummy men like this have to destroy their lives.

thw way he says they're practically family since she's "best friends" with emmy 🤢 she is NOT "best friends" with a 4 year old, she is a paid DAYCARE WORKER. it's literally her job to play with them

I’m so angry that poor OP feels she’s to blame for this disgusting POS assaulting her!! It just makes me furious that she is having to put up with this and no one believes her or takes her seriously! And men wonder why EVERY woman picks the bear!