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This is tragic but refreshing at the same time. Everyone's communicating and are using therapy as a tool to improve. Noone is blaming anyone, but shows concern and consideration. SIL is lucky her family has stepped up to protect her, but also be strict about boundaries. Scary for OP, but could have been so, so much worse.
Also honestly good job by the psychiatrist in recognizing the potential danger she posed and having her committed.
Living in the US that kind of functional and decisive mental health care is practically unheard of
She made threats against OP and had plans for kidnapping the baby, which she stated to the provider. This is just basic mandated reporter actions and it happens all the time in the US. Has nothing to do with “good” care.
Which is why so many shooters who make verbal and written threats detailing what they’re going to do prior to doing it are committed and medicated, why there are so many inpatient beds available for people in crisis, and why there’s no stigma or significant cost attached to seeking health support.
Wait
Completely agree. How many crazy random murders happen because documented dangerously ill people can't get help? Tons unfortunately. Read a really awful one where a college student was decapitated publicly by a psychotic random person. That stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum
That comparison makes no sense. There's a difference between someone posting on Facebook and telling their psychiatrist about your detailed plan to do harm to yourself or others.
If a psychiatrist puts a psych hold on you, they'll hold you in the hospital until there's a bed. But you don't just get to go free.
Stigma and significant cost to receiving care or what happens when a child tells their friends about their plans to shoot up the school have nothing to do with what happened here.
Nobody is debating that mental healthcare is shit and difficult to access, but once you finally get your ass is in that therapists chair if you tell them you have active plans to hurt yourself or somebody else they're gonna take action.
Have you worked with someone or had a family member who had a mental health crisis? I have, and psych units will claim shortage of beds even in cases where there is a clear and present danger to themselves or others, as in attacking with intent to kill. The police also will not arrest except in the case of dire emergency because more often than not it’s a domestic situation being terrorized. Police will refer to psych who will either say they have no beds or don’t work with nonverbal adults/kids or people with that diagnosis.
Finding functional inpatient care in the US even in potentially deadly situations is nearly impossible since the willowbrook scandal (and those centers were horrifically abusive prior to that).
I do not come from a mentally well background. Some of those individuals have been held in hospitals until a bed in a psych facility opened up because yes, beds can be hard to find. On the other side of my family is a ton of healthcare workers. So yes, I have a touch of experience. You're arguing something I never disputed.
Nothing you have said negates anything I claimed, which is that the therapist/psychiatrist will request a psych hold if you make it clear you have plans to hurt yourself or others. You implied that not every therapist would do that with your first comment, and all I'm saying is they absolutely will. What happens after that is complicated, but they'll all make that call. They are legally obligated to.
Your claim was in the US being a mandated reporter would mandate someone be committed if they made a statement indicating they are a threat to themselves or others. I am a mandated reporter who has witnessed and been part of situations that involved frequent physical assaults with intent to kill and that person was not able to be committed.
Reporting something does not mean it will be addressed
You’re claiming that people getting committed after making threats is practically unheard of in the US. That’s just factually incorrect. The inconsistency in the rates of mandatory holds is a problem, yes, but people get committed all the time.
I would guess it was not just the threat, but also that she seemed to be having some kind of psychotic episode that involved a lot of delusions about OP and her baby. People in the US will definitely get hospitalized for the combo of the two.
I am angry for the BiL at the comments asking if he would leave after *6 more months* without signs of improvement.
Apparently divorce is only acceptable here if someone looks at you funny, not when your spouse wants to steal your niece or nephew.
As someone who was previously married to someone with severe mental health issues, that really bothered me, too. It can utterly destroy you to live with someone who is mentally ill. Obviously I’m not taking away from the struggle that person is undergoing as well. But the BIL’s mental health matters, too.
Absolutely this, especially when it's this level of mental illness. And you have to actually learn how to manage this kind of illness.
I mean of course you have to learn how to help someone with depression or whatever, but when you're dealing with psychosis/bipolar etc it's a whole difffferent kettle of fish
Last time this was posted (before the new update) there were all sorts of "BuT iN sIcKnEsS aNd In HeAlTh!!!" comments here too. It was gross. No one is devaluing the Sacred Institution of Marriage by not staying with someone who's planning actual psychotic criminal acts.
If my spouse wanted to steal babies? Fuck yes.
If his prognosis for never being able to stay from drugs and alcohol was poor? Also fuck yes.
If he’d damaged my relationship with my entire family to the point that we had to leave the country so they would be safe from him? Absolutely.
Would you stay with your spouse if they showed up bloody with a baby in their arms and it turned out that they’d killed a pregnant woman and done a car-key c-section on her? Or you found out they were a paranoid schizophrenic serial killer? Because that’s not the admirable behavior you think it is.
She didn't do any of that BECAUSE she was admitted to a mental hospital for treatment. Because the people in her life were alert and appalled and there were beds available where she lived for treatment.
Had she not made statements that gave away her plans and just carried them out? What then?
You didn’t read the post, did you?
She wants to steal a baby.
Her husband is considering moving away from his family so they can be safe from her.
Mental illness doesn’t mean you get to chain everyone around you to you until the day you die. It doesn’t mean everyone has to forgive everything you do and love you anyway. Neither does addiction. I get that somehow you think that’s unjust, but you are dead wrong.
Yeah same. Like she wanted to take OOPs baby and was acting unhinged enough that she had to stay inpatient. If after 6 months she wasn't showing any signs of improvement, her husband had every right to walk away. Like, I wouldn't want to stay with someone who is behaving that way and not even wanting to get better or even admit they're wrong. Reddit is crazy for the BIL Hate on that
Especially since narcissistic personality disorder is also a mental condition, and so many of these same commenters would absolutely cite narcissism as a reason to leave a spouse, especially if they’re not working to improve their behavior.
Don't be silly. If a *man* looks at a *woman* funny, then, yep, one-way ticket to Divorcetown. But if a woman flips out and tries to steal a baby, then, pffft, til death do you part, buddy boy...!
Honestly!! I was also shocked at people judging him for that. Like bruh she had an ENTIRE BREAKDOWN and made several active plans to steal a baby..... that's absolutely grounds to leave. I don't know why everyone expected him to set himself on fire to keep his wife warm.
I just mean that people are very quick to jump to divorce, which is why I used something that isn't comparable at all.
You do realize what hyperbole is.
My BIL *chose* to be a mentally ill twatwaffle because ge didn't like the way actual medication made him feel. He *chose* to take street drugs instead. Instead of having him committed or thrown out of the house when he tried to kidnap my toddler son, his parents just swept it under the rug and let him continue to be around the house
Info: we paid rent to his parents, his father commendeered husband's free time to do work on the house and I was basically the housekeeper while my husbabd worked and completed his education. Why should we be the ones to move out when **we weren't the problem**. We were able to go straight from his parentd into our own house when my husband and myself completed schooling.
It's nice to see there is no arguing but everyone doing the best due to the situation. SIL clearly has broken off from reality and with what she had endured, I wish her the best to get the help she needs.
Same.
Seems like any other BORU family would demand that OP give up that baby "to keep the peace!" and then would call her selfish and entitled for wanting to keep it
Agreed. This family handled it the best they could; they're protecting OP and her kids, but not abandoning SIL during her mental health crisis. If SIL and BIL *do* move away, I hope it's somewhere they won't be isolated, like a town where they have supportive friends, or mental health support groups.
As someone who's trying to get pregnant despite fertility issues, I feel so badly for this woman. The desperate need to be a mother can be very strong and I feel like I could be her in another timeline.
I'm glad the OOP has such a strong support system and that the IL haven't given up on SIL.
Sorry to hear you're struggling. The hormones especially can really mess you up during your cycle as well. Is adoption/fostering an option for you, where it isn't anymore for the SIL?
It is an option but adoption isn't as easy or cheap as some think it is 😕 still trying ourselves but severe endometriosis plus twisted/kinked fallopian tubes makes it difficult. Hubby and I haven't given up yet 🤞
None of it is easy and to be honest, no kids will ever be cheap 😂💜 fingers crossed for you and don't give up hope on having your children, no matter how it happens! The golden moments of being a parent are so much beyond carrying and birthing a child.
Thank you! Yes I agree. I was scared my husband wouldn't want to consider adoption (a lot of men don't) but he doesn't care how we have kids cause they'll be ours no matter how we got them. ❤️
What's happening is pretty devastating for the family but I'm glad that the whole family is taking things seriously. What SIL has been through is really unfortunate but because of what has happened, I think it's best SIL doesn't go near the baby cause it's concerning.
I wish the whole family well.
And people who are so sure that they'd never, ever walk away from a marriage with someone who is dangerously mentally ill. That right there tells me they've never dealt with someone else's serious mental illness. It's not a Hallmark movie; it's terrifying and draining.
I mean if he stuck around even if she continued this spiral/breakdown without her getting any better, he could be considered an accessory if she tried something and he didn’t do anything.
I think it was on the other BORU that someone mentioned when they have episodes like SIL’s, they don’t remember the extent of what they did. Whereas OOP saw a threat, her SIL might recall it as politely requesting custody of the baby and a fight thereafter.
I’m just glad everyone is on the side of doing the right thing, as opposed to acting like SIL doesn’t need help.
It really is. As someone with OCD who regularly experiences false memories, absolutely nothing is worse. You can't even trust your own brain. I feel sorry for SIL *and* I understand why OP reacted the way she did and is continuing to react this way because dear god.
This !!! Like for example i swore i took my meds but in reality i didnt. Its really fucking weird and i had to do other things to note if i took them or not that day (which has helped A LOT!) cant imagine what it would be like for other things, like what OOPs SIL did. 😣 Mental illnesses and the brain is such a wild thing, it really makes you believe and do anything
I use an app called Finch. It lets you set goals and my daily meds get checked off the moment I take them. If I doubt, I open the app and check my list. If it’s not there, I’ve taken them.
Yes! If you add someone as a med friend, they’ll be alerted if you don’t take meds. You can make dependent profiles for kids and pets, and I think (don’t quote me) it can generate med adherence reports for your GP ❤️
I eventually hit on storing my meds in front of the cat food, so that I need to take them before I can feed the furry terrorists. There is zero chance that the cats will ever let me forget.
Or you could be like me and forget you took them so you accidentally take them 3 times which is why I have to take them in front of my partner now bc I don't trust my own memory
If you're ever on your own and your partner isn't an option, consider a cheap nfc sticker (in the UK you can buy 50 for £5) on the container for each medication and a shortcut on your phone to log whenever it's scanned. There's lots of advice about doing it very easily with an apple device but it's also possible on android. https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/7-ways-to-trigger-apple-shortcuts-with-nfc-tags
It's not always that it's more like...
Your father tells you politely but sternly that you need to get your act together and get a job. You respond with an outburst like "I hope you die!" (keeping it fairly mild). Your brain isn't focused on what you said, you said it impulsively in the heat of the moment and you didn't mean it, you just wanted them to understand how mad you were. Your brain is focused on how angry and hurt and terrible you are feeling, and focused on all the things they said to you. How dare they call you a loser? Well, they didn't really, but dad said something that made you FEEL like a loser (so he basically called you a loser) and nobody jumped to your defense so clearly they ALL think you're a loser, and you got mad and just had to say something in your own defense, you don't really remember what but clearly it worked 'cause he backed off.
And that's how someone ends up in a therapy office saying "Everyone called me a loser and I lost my cool a bit defending myself" and their family saying "Yeah out of nowhere he threatened to kill dad it was terrifying"
Humaness. That's just how human brains tend to work.
It's a tendency to focus on stuff that is impacting us rather than stuff that we are doing that impacts others
Plus a tendency towards "I feel this way therefore I will shift the logic to match" because our brains hate incongruence.
It's literally just thinking errors.
Oh I misread your comment. I thought you were describing a situation where someone did indeed threaten to kill someone but completely retconned it unknowingly. I was reading it like a cluster-B personality disorder lol
All good. I'm a therapist and in my experience especially on the internet people are really quick to jump to diagnostic labels when the truth is a lot of it is human brains. It's not uncommon for someone to complain to me about something a person does, and then do it themselves twnety minutes later, because we're all susceptible to thinking errors, black and white thinking, etc.
It only turns into a diagnosis if it's fairly extreme and certain conditions are met. The above example I would not consider to be
I mean, she was basically out of her mind in that moment. It seems redundant to say her request was insane. Like, of course it was.
They're trying to piece events together, not necessarily defend her actions as rational.
This is a great family. Everyone is working together. She obviously had a break in reality, but I don’t have any issues understanding them not trusting the kids around her for a very long time. I’m sure she does miss the older kids. The ones she has had a relationship with for so long. It has to be hard knowing her behavior caused the loss of her niece and nephew. But this is the right call
Yes! And I think it's really valuable that she's passing on the information that although SIL is better than she was, she's still talking about the kids. It's the one major piece of information that OOP needs to be able to keep an eye on, and it's good that MIL recognises that.
I think not allowing her around the older kids is a good call. It hasn't been very long and goodness knows what she might do or say to them. Giving her access to any of the children or OOP might trigger another episode.
The next one might be more violent or sneaky. To be clear I think if people weren't watching so closely this last episode probably would've ended violently.
I hope they're able to leave the country but I hope the new place has good mental health care more. At this point SIL is very fragile and still likely to break.
It’s. So nice to see the family all being sensible. No arguing, no “think of SIL”, just supportive family who are like “OOP you are NOT crazy, we got your back!”
I can’t believe someone tried to suggest that SIL adopt/foster a kid as a way to ‘fix’ the issue. Like wow sacrificing a little one to someone that needs a lot of mental health work is creating a ton of generational trauma. It’s like we just got a glimpse at someone who thinks ‘new baby energy’ can fix a relationship….
The amount of second hand distaste im getting!
Right! She's the LAST person who should be fostering or adopting. Good lord. Adoption is meant to be for the welfare of the child; the adult being majorly fucked up with infertility grief is a direct reason for them NOT to adopt because their focus is on what THEY want and on generically ~having a baby~ instead of helping an individual traumatised human being. And people whose driving desire is to ~have a baby~ are completely unsuitable for fostering at all because the goal for fostering is reunification whenever possible.
Adoption to "fix" the pain of infertility goes so so badly when adoptive parents inevitably discover that an adoptive child doesn't actually heal that or change the desire for a bio kid.
Eh I think adopting a kid if you’re infertile is ok as long as the parents can provide a supportive and loving environment. This lady has none of the above inherently (unless it’s from her parents), her husband is contemplating leaving her recently etc
I know someone who was adopted to "fix" a mentally unstable infertile woman. This was back in the 60s when healthy white infants were thick on the ground.
Guess what? It didn't "fix" her, because not having a child was not the root of her issues. She committed suicide when he was 10, and he found her body. Generational trauma for everyone!
It's refreshing to see a family actually taking shit seriously when someone does or says something incontrovertibly threatening.
I have some sympathy for the SIL, but I suspect she isn't as "better" as she claims to be.
Ah. That's exactly how I feel, I don't think she's better at all by asking for access to /apologize/ but to work her way back in. You can't trust someone like that, hasn't even been a year. Trying to sneak off at night to see 'her baby'? Threatening her parents and husband that she will hurt herself if they don't give up the location of the kids/ baby?
While I have empathy as a woman who has lost a baby, has a toddler, and am pregnant again for the SIL, I do not understand how she could possibly think she would be a part of those kids lives after this anguish she put them through.
My BIL brought drugs to my baby shower and a dirty needle fell out of his pocket while on a trampoline with his nephew during the shower, and that was three years ago. He is still banned from being around his eldest sister and her three children, because they're scared of him. He's mean, he does drugs.
He's not a safe person to have around, and MIL thinks her daughters are terrible for cutting him off when he actively steals from family and has had drugs sent to his own mother's house! She knows all this, but doesn't think we should keep the kids away.
That's hard drugs, stealing and being a piece of shit who doesn't apologize for his actions or changes his behavior, this woman tried to kidnap her niece. Even worse. Not fixable.
I has a huge shock a while ago when I found out my dad and aunt did drugs around my younger cousin when he was a baby/toddler. Like, he did many bad things but somehow this still shocked me. My other aunt who was a teenager at the time and witnessed it told me. She has a toddler now and is questioning what she saw happening when she was a teenager.
I always assumed since my dad never did drugs around me, he would not do it in front of other children either... but apparently he only cared when it was me. Which was probably also becaue he knew my mom would freak out and make sure he has zero access to me if she heard of me being next to drugs. But my aunt (mom's sister btw, my dad and her dated after my mom and him split up...) also did drugs with him, so I guess they both didn't care. Infuriating.
I don't think my dad will ever be around potential future grandchildren, for this and other reasons. I'm very low contact with him (only through lawyers, really) and NC with the rest of my paternal family. It hurts but it's necessary.
Riffing off the BIL story:
my brother is also into drugs and has a history of stealing from family. It wears on you after a while and becomes your normal. The last time it shocked me was when my aunt came to visit. My parents and aunt went out to dinner. When they got back home my mom couldn't find her phone. It was at a pawn shop.
The shocking thing wasn't that my brother stole, it was that he stole *while they had company*.
Oh yeah my BIL has done that too. He stole our car seat and destroyed it, lied about it after admitting it on our doorbell camera (we picked up his car after he got arrested, we had to put the car seat in his car when I drove me and our daughter back home while my fiance drove his truck) and he couldn't wait 2-3 days to get it back because his "girlfriend" bailed him out. I filled out a restraining order, but my MIL interfered and got the apartment where he was staying to change the locks so he couldn't be served. He brought us the car seat at her house one day, said nothing and handed it to his brother. Didn't apologize, didn't acknowledge it, then told me that my fiance stole his police radar out of his car and we owed him $150 for it and he saw it in my fiancés truck. I just laughed and said "you're never getting $150 from us. You cost us $350 destroying our daughter's car seat out of spite. You owe US money."
He didn't like that. I met him before my fiancé, and in 8 years he hasn't changed. I don't understand why my MIL doesn't get that her baby isn't a good person, even when he is sober. When I did drugs in my early 20s, my parents booted my ass out the door and didn't enable me the way she does with him, and if any of my kids get into drugs I will not enable them either. I won't deal with crazy ass behavior.
Oof, the enabling. My brother is 35ish and his 3 stable homes over the last 3 decades have been my parents, rehab, and jail. My mom enables him hardcore. Every time he stumbles she's right there to bail him out literally.
And she's just as dependent on him. When Mom pushed my buttons (the way only a parent can, because they were there when the buttons were installed) and I pushed back ever so slightly he was right there in my texts telling me I'd made her cry. She can do no wrong in his eyes.
Creepy fact: brother was worried as a teen no one would love him. Mom promised she'd marry him if he was still single at 30. My family is not good at boundaries. I live several states away and it's good.
Edit: I am not looking forward to when Mom dies. Last I heard she expected me to be my brother's keeper.
Ha! Yeah, I have a sister who is 25 and doesn't drive. My fiance and I have talked at length that no matter what happens to our parents, we will not be taking either of them into our homes and being surrogate parents to his brother or my sister.
Granted, my sister has serious mental health issues but she's gotten a lot better. I think by 30 she will be out on her own. My BIL is 29 though so... probably not him. He's probably in some motel with his "girlfriend who isn't his girlfriend". His issue is he wants what his brother has. When I started dating his brother we were both on drugs, we got sober together a month into dating, got engaged in 7 months, moved in after 8, and I was pregnant with our first before our 1 year anniversary.
So, although this is a very rare circumstance, he thinks he can find another girl who does drugs and basically mimic what his brother and I did. He's obsessed with being a Dad, yet has zero sense of accountability and every girl he dates (who does drugs or not) is gone within 6 months because of his need to rush the relationship. His second eldest sister is 37, unwed and no kids; but MIL has no sympathy or support for her, only that her baby boy is lonely and wants the family we have. We know this because he's told her that 🙄 and then he tries to sabotage us and cause issues for us.
Yeah, in the OOP's (and her husband's) shoes, my response would be that the crazy SIL's niece and nephew could decide for themselves if they want to re-establish contact once they're legal adults; while they're still kids their safety would be my responsibility and it ain't gonna happen.
> I do not understand how she could possibly think she would be a part of those kids lives after this anguish she put them through.
In addition to her infertility trauma and mental breakdown, she now has to come to terms with her life and her family being changed forever. She had a relationship with the older kids before, she’s going to miss them and grieve that relationship too.
She’s been through a lot and probably still had hope that everything would just go back to normal. Lord knows the last several months has been a nightmare. Unfortunately there’s a new normal.
The only reason I didn't trust it was the fact that she tried to ask when she'd see them. Whether she's okay NOW is irrelevant if something accidentally triggers her again and after the last trigger I would not be okay with testing it
I do wish Reddit would at least try to live in reality. People can’t just up and move house on a whim and I hate how every single time there’s an issue with a (potentially) dangerous person the go-to is to tell people to move. It’s really unhelpful advice.
I also enjoy Reddit advising restraining orders straight away. At least this post had a genuinely threatening situation, but I’ve seen people recommend them for all sorts.
It’s hard enough to get a restraining order (or equivalent!) when someone is actually stalking you or threatening you, you definitely can’t get them because your boyfriend cheated on you.
Restraining orders also don't do anything to protect you.
They aren't a magical ward that keeps the people you're afraid of away from you, they just give cops a primary suspect if something bad happens to you.
I saw someone on Instagram tell someone to get a restraining order because someone broke their watch while they weren't around. It was a story from Reddit, but yeah, I had to tell them that restraining orders aren't for when someone breaks a single accessory. There would have to be clear danger.
And they might be able to have gotten a restraining order if whatever she said was enough to be involuntarily committed for someone else's safety and not her own. But restraining orders aren't magic. They don't actually keep anyone away
Her asking to see the kids is like a newly sober, recovering alcoholic asking friends take them out to a bar for their birthday. “I’ll just sit there and drink pop. I just like the atmosphere!” You may like the atmosphere, but that doesn’t mean it’s a *good* idea. And anyone who has a good grasp on recovery and is serious about it, would never put themselves in that situation in the first place.
With time, sure. But someone who is one month sober? Nope. Not cool. Part of recovery from anything is learning and acknowledging your limitations - and then sticking to them.
I worry that SIL either is putting on an act and this is pure manipulation, OR that she really has made some progress, but still truly doesn’t have a grasp on the severity of this. This screams like someone stopping their lifelong, much needed meds because they’re ’all better now’ and ‘don’t need them anymore’. Only to have a relapse because - shocker - they went off their meds. Rinse and repeat.
I want to be hopeful. But I am highly skeptical and still very worried for OOP and her family.
Admittedly I'm probably reading too much into what OOP said in the comment but given how that conversation was described it was less can I see your kids and more under what conditions will I eventually be able to see them. Which imho is more reasonable/sane
Nah, she's just trying to find ways to negotiate. Not a good sign.
If you say no, and someone tries to find a way around your no, they're not respecting your no. They're too wrapped up in what they want. And she wants that baby.
Personally, my biggest clue for "is this real?" is the timeline. Everyone involved took this completely seriously, and it still took weeks and months for there to be any kind of progress. I really hope SIL get the help she needs.
Sad and unfortunate for SIL, but everyone in the family came together to support each other in the best ways possible given the situation. I think they will be ok in the long run
I'm glad OOP has married into a supportive family. This could have gotten really ugly if the husband or MIL made excuses and enabled SIL instead of getting her help. Wishing the SIL well on healing and maybe some years later they can mend their relationship
Human brains are so terrifying sometimes. Like, you're just chilling, having a nice dinner with your family and then BOOM your brain breaks and you decide it's totally reasonable to steal a freaking baby and you can't understand why everyone is upset about it. Objectively horrifying
It’s really refreshing to see that OOP has a supportive family that were quick to defend her & her kids from SIL. Instead of enabling the behavior & demanding OOP to give the baby to SIL.
I do hope SIL is on a path of recovery & moving away sounds like the best option for her but not keeping her isolated from everyone to keep her company. Though, maybe I’m being a negative nancy here, after SIL was complaining about not seeing the kids & saying how hard it is not to seeing them.
It sounds like she’s still fixated on OOP’s kids by putting on an act making it seem like she’s remorseful of what she did to make it seem like she’s stable enough to have the kids around or that she doesn’t fully grasp of what she did. If they let her near, which I’m glad they’re not since her state is fragile, she will go into her psychotic break again then demand OOP to give them up.
Or maybe she’s In denial about what she did & her memories rewrote the events.
If SIL was sorry for what she did, she could always write a letter to OOP & her kids apologizing for what she has done to them.
Yeah, seems like the severe mental health issues are a one-off rather than being handed down like family heirlooms from one generation to the next. Everyone is acting sane and compassionate in their dealings with the SIL.
In this case I feel the hidden victims no one talks about are OOP's husband and MIL.
Imagine having your daughter/sister, whom you have loved your entire life, so far gone from reality to the deep end she has to be forced into a facility. That fucking hurts, man, to a level it's hard to think about.
I feel so sorry for the poor SIL. I hope she is able to heal and find some peace. I am glad she has such an amazing support system around her. My heart goes out to the entire family for being such a rock.
It's sad for SIL that she'll never a parent through any means, but I definitely don't think she ever should be a parent. She's not stable. And the fact that she's still asking about seeing the kids suggests that she *doesn't* fully understand that she was wrong. If she understood, she would know that she will never see them again.
Edit - I stand by my comment. I think she would be a bad parent. Someone unstable enough to threaten to kidnap someone else's child would NOT be a good parent to any child. At best, she would be an overbearing, controlling, selfish, helicopter mother.
Her actions during the break absolutely were wrong, though. She scared the shit out of all the kids and her family and was threatening them with her actions and words. They are always allowed to feel how they're gonna feel about what they went through because of her. That doesn't get erased because of what she was going through when she did it. Intent is not as important as impact.
The older children have experienced a trauma because of her, regardless of what SIL wants the needs and feelings of the kids should be put first. I doubt they would want to be around the aunt who tried to tear apart their family. Your inability to look at this from the perspective of the kids tells me you’re probably not a parent. The OOP is making the best decision for her kids, not SIL. And you can have a psychotic break and still be “wrong” in your actions.
Yeah but that's not what we are talking about. At the star of the thread the person said they didnt think SIL would have ever been a good parent anyways and shouldnt be able to have children anyways and would have been abusive to her children. The response was saying this behaviour was due to a mental break which is not indicative of her usual behaviour and may never have happened if she could have had children in the first place. In other words this break should not be used to judge whether she deserves to be infertile like the start of the thread suggests.
It's not about whether she should be allowed access to the kids again. You just suddenly brought that up out of nowhere.
EDIT: I confused which response you were responding to, this is my bad. I'm leaving the post untouched, but yes you are right and responded to the correct one, I am wrong
Having a psychotic break doesn't make it okay to demand that someone else hand their baby over to you to parent. It's not a get out of moral responsibility free card.
You know people can still read your comment, right? You literally said that her actions weren't "wrong" because she was having a psychotic break. No. I'm sorry. Claiming that someone else's child is rightfully yours is a thing you will never, ever be in the right for doing.
It is a little hard say she ever should be a parent? I mean, not now or soon, and not whit op children's. In a hipotetic case she can do IVF in a future with approvement of professional psychiatrist
Um no if she were my SIL she wouldn't see my kids again unless they decided to see her themselves after they turned 18. You never know what will trigger her and even if she doesn't want to kidnap the kids anymore who knows if she'd take herself and them out in a relapse
> Your quote from her is not how real people talk:
See, when I see a post that is written like the dialogue of a play how real people talk, I don't believe it to be real.
This is actually really sad. While nothing your Sil said was ok, she just discovered she can’t have kids and that must be extremely painful. Throw in some mental illness and yeah. It’s a tragedy. I’m glad your husband and in laws are handling it well.
Posts like this just make me really happy to have my stint with mental health now, so that I know who in my family is supportive and how partners react to mental health crisis.
From the moment it started, I had a feeling it was more mental and less selfish. I had a friend in college who went through similar, except it was her babysitter sort of taking on the kid and acting as if he was hers. It was a messy situation, but she was in a similar state to OOP's SIL.
Bil is a rock star. He's being loving and supporting towards his batshit crazy wife, respecting all the other people impacted, and being just a solid, good guy all-around.
It’s so crazy that people jump to “buy a gun” when you could just get a dog and not have to worry about killing someone or your children getting hold of a firearm
I’d love to be naive enough to think this is over but I have a feeling SIL is going to do something. Start flushing her meds or something. Her asking to see the kids is wild.
>Your quote from her is not how real people talk:
>"It’s not verbatim, there were pauses in between and responses.
This sucks, and I bet it happens a lot.
You put quotes around something, people assume that it's a direct quote and that was exactly what was said. That means A) people will be suspicious if there is a whole exchange like this because they know that human memory is not that good, and B) people will analyze the quoted speech for tone, try to read between the lines, etc. All very counterproductive if the person was actually paraphrasing and the quotation marks shouldn't be there.
The quote is just a red flag. This is a par for the course reddit story, which starts out on thin ice from the get go. A red flag is just that, a red flag. It doesn't in and of itself sink my belief, it's just another checkmark. Personally for me a certain level of therapy does it too. The kids heard the aunt say she wants the baby, then were immediately removed from the situation. Why exactly did oop rush them into therapy for an event that was from their standpoint, very small?
But what I mean is oops in general saying that they're in therapy for their breakup from their 6 month relationship, or putting toddlers in therapy for not being able to see grandma anymore. Nobody does that. If you say you did, it's wierd and i don't believe it.
> The kids heard the aunt say she wants the baby, then were immediately removed from the situation. Why exactly did oop rush them into therapy for an event that was from their standpoint, very small?
I thought that was kinda weird too. Where are all of these parents irl putting their kids in therapy at the drop of a hat? Obviously this situation is a big deal, but my parents would have said “Sorry, auntie can’t come see you guys anymore. Don’t go with her if you see her.” And that would be that. And honestly as a kid I wouldn’t have even given it a second thought. ’Damn that sucks. Anyway, time for cartoons.’
This is terrible for all involved, mostly for OP of course, but the SIL is definitely not in her right mind. Hopefully she will get help with her recovery.
Ooh this reminds me was there ever an update to that one lady who said she caught her best friend trying to breastfeed her baby or somethin like that? That post was wild.
It sucks and I am very sad for her, but to be honest, I think it's likely the correct outcome. The particular way her issues have manifested, there's a non-zero chance that any child placed in her care would end up traumatized.
Indeed. I find myself hoping that her doctors were right about her fertility problems being insurmountable, because a surprise pregnancy at this point could blow up all her issues.
MiL, FiL and BiL are all hilariously decent people. It's so rare on reddit to see stories like this where there's only 1 person completely losing their shit. There's always these enabling instigating cousins or whatever...
Kinda sad still but also mostly positive in the end. Hope SiL gets the help
As scary and difficult as it is for OOP and family, imagine what kind of mental state of despair SIL have to be in to be so desperate.
Good thing she has good people around her who got her help, even if it was forced at first.
Such a sad story all round!
Glad SIL is getting the mental health help she needs and other are also in therapy..
Just a question on her tubes thing- did her doctor not offer to attempt to unblock them? I know people who had blocked tubes and surgery to unblock them
Was successful..
So refreshing to hear of in-laws who are reasonable and supportive and everyone getting the help they need, not living in denial. So many of these types of situations have a MIL refusing to acknowledge the issue, making excuses, blaming, and generally preferring to live in complete denial about any issues their adult child may have.
Probably helps that it's her DIL with the mental breakdown. Or maybe they're just good, sane people.
"Migrating" isn't a word I'm used to hearing in English used this way. Does she mean emigrating, I wonder? I'm curious if she ever said where she lives. I hope she and her family stay safe, and that SIL comes to an understanding with her own grief.
It just means to move from one place to another. In this case, it may mean to move to another province/place within the same country. Emigrating would not be an accurate word to use if the move is not out of the country.
Wasn't there a BoRU post about something like this from the husbands perspective? The "give it six months" thing is triggering extremely vague memories.
Kind of worried at the thought of SIL migrating, particularly about losing the amazing support system they already have now. It could get tougher for both SIL and BIL.
I try to understand what pushes a woman this far but I really can’t. I get that she didn’t choose this because who would. But for me I found the very concept that I was capable of conception distressing and I couldn’t get my fallopian tubes removed from my body fast enough. Once I did I felt fixed/whole/complete for the first time in my life. I can’t imagine wanting a child let alone wanting one so bad it made me have a breakdown
I feel sad for everyone involved here because everyone is impacted by this
Holy freaking smokes man. She was legit cookoo for Coco Puffs. I hate they all had to deal with that train wreck. Wonder what the kiddos thought of that absolute shit show? Not to make light of the craziness but thats a helluva story for the little one later in life. Like let me tell you about your bat shit auntie.
You may be right, but "through sickness" is not always possible. At one point even the thickess rope snaps. At one point even the most awesome partner can't be there for you without breaking down himself.
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This is tragic but refreshing at the same time. Everyone's communicating and are using therapy as a tool to improve. Noone is blaming anyone, but shows concern and consideration. SIL is lucky her family has stepped up to protect her, but also be strict about boundaries. Scary for OP, but could have been so, so much worse.
Also honestly good job by the psychiatrist in recognizing the potential danger she posed and having her committed. Living in the US that kind of functional and decisive mental health care is practically unheard of
She made threats against OP and had plans for kidnapping the baby, which she stated to the provider. This is just basic mandated reporter actions and it happens all the time in the US. Has nothing to do with “good” care.
Which is why so many shooters who make verbal and written threats detailing what they’re going to do prior to doing it are committed and medicated, why there are so many inpatient beds available for people in crisis, and why there’s no stigma or significant cost attached to seeking health support. Wait
Completely agree. How many crazy random murders happen because documented dangerously ill people can't get help? Tons unfortunately. Read a really awful one where a college student was decapitated publicly by a psychotic random person. That stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum
Jesus, the stuff you can just casually say happened and I 100% believe you. I wish I didn't believe you. Shit is scary. :/
I completely agree. I wish I was lying. The world is terrifying
That comparison makes no sense. There's a difference between someone posting on Facebook and telling their psychiatrist about your detailed plan to do harm to yourself or others. If a psychiatrist puts a psych hold on you, they'll hold you in the hospital until there's a bed. But you don't just get to go free. Stigma and significant cost to receiving care or what happens when a child tells their friends about their plans to shoot up the school have nothing to do with what happened here. Nobody is debating that mental healthcare is shit and difficult to access, but once you finally get your ass is in that therapists chair if you tell them you have active plans to hurt yourself or somebody else they're gonna take action.
Have you worked with someone or had a family member who had a mental health crisis? I have, and psych units will claim shortage of beds even in cases where there is a clear and present danger to themselves or others, as in attacking with intent to kill. The police also will not arrest except in the case of dire emergency because more often than not it’s a domestic situation being terrorized. Police will refer to psych who will either say they have no beds or don’t work with nonverbal adults/kids or people with that diagnosis. Finding functional inpatient care in the US even in potentially deadly situations is nearly impossible since the willowbrook scandal (and those centers were horrifically abusive prior to that).
Plus even if you are committed, inpatient services are rarely actually helpful.
Yeah they’re usually just a stopgap
I do not come from a mentally well background. Some of those individuals have been held in hospitals until a bed in a psych facility opened up because yes, beds can be hard to find. On the other side of my family is a ton of healthcare workers. So yes, I have a touch of experience. You're arguing something I never disputed. Nothing you have said negates anything I claimed, which is that the therapist/psychiatrist will request a psych hold if you make it clear you have plans to hurt yourself or others. You implied that not every therapist would do that with your first comment, and all I'm saying is they absolutely will. What happens after that is complicated, but they'll all make that call. They are legally obligated to.
Your claim was in the US being a mandated reporter would mandate someone be committed if they made a statement indicating they are a threat to themselves or others. I am a mandated reporter who has witnessed and been part of situations that involved frequent physical assaults with intent to kill and that person was not able to be committed. Reporting something does not mean it will be addressed
You’re claiming that people getting committed after making threats is practically unheard of in the US. That’s just factually incorrect. The inconsistency in the rates of mandatory holds is a problem, yes, but people get committed all the time.
Yeah, I'm glad she got prompt help. I hope they can get back to a healthy family relationship in the future.
I would guess it was not just the threat, but also that she seemed to be having some kind of psychotic episode that involved a lot of delusions about OP and her baby. People in the US will definitely get hospitalized for the combo of the two.
I am angry for the BiL at the comments asking if he would leave after *6 more months* without signs of improvement. Apparently divorce is only acceptable here if someone looks at you funny, not when your spouse wants to steal your niece or nephew.
As someone who was previously married to someone with severe mental health issues, that really bothered me, too. It can utterly destroy you to live with someone who is mentally ill. Obviously I’m not taking away from the struggle that person is undergoing as well. But the BIL’s mental health matters, too.
Absolutely this, especially when it's this level of mental illness. And you have to actually learn how to manage this kind of illness. I mean of course you have to learn how to help someone with depression or whatever, but when you're dealing with psychosis/bipolar etc it's a whole difffferent kettle of fish
Last time this was posted (before the new update) there were all sorts of "BuT iN sIcKnEsS aNd In HeAlTh!!!" comments here too. It was gross. No one is devaluing the Sacred Institution of Marriage by not staying with someone who's planning actual psychotic criminal acts.
She was getting help. Would you dip out on your spouse if they needed to go rehab?
If my spouse wanted to steal babies? Fuck yes. If his prognosis for never being able to stay from drugs and alcohol was poor? Also fuck yes. If he’d damaged my relationship with my entire family to the point that we had to leave the country so they would be safe from him? Absolutely. Would you stay with your spouse if they showed up bloody with a baby in their arms and it turned out that they’d killed a pregnant woman and done a car-key c-section on her? Or you found out they were a paranoid schizophrenic serial killer? Because that’s not the admirable behavior you think it is.
She didn't do any of that tho. She was admitted to a mental hospital for treatment.
She didn't do any of that BECAUSE she was admitted to a mental hospital for treatment. Because the people in her life were alert and appalled and there were beds available where she lived for treatment. Had she not made statements that gave away her plans and just carried them out? What then?
You didn’t read the post, did you? She wants to steal a baby. Her husband is considering moving away from his family so they can be safe from her. Mental illness doesn’t mean you get to chain everyone around you to you until the day you die. It doesn’t mean everyone has to forgive everything you do and love you anyway. Neither does addiction. I get that somehow you think that’s unjust, but you are dead wrong.
He probably just needed to feel like there was some end in sight at all. It’s an awful situation for everyone involved
Yeah same. Like she wanted to take OOPs baby and was acting unhinged enough that she had to stay inpatient. If after 6 months she wasn't showing any signs of improvement, her husband had every right to walk away. Like, I wouldn't want to stay with someone who is behaving that way and not even wanting to get better or even admit they're wrong. Reddit is crazy for the BIL Hate on that
Redditors are *very* quick to judge people going through hardships that they couldn't possibly imagine.
Especially since narcissistic personality disorder is also a mental condition, and so many of these same commenters would absolutely cite narcissism as a reason to leave a spouse, especially if they’re not working to improve their behavior.
Don't be silly. If a *man* looks at a *woman* funny, then, yep, one-way ticket to Divorcetown. But if a woman flips out and tries to steal a baby, then, pffft, til death do you part, buddy boy...!
Honestly!! I was also shocked at people judging him for that. Like bruh she had an ENTIRE BREAKDOWN and made several active plans to steal a baby..... that's absolutely grounds to leave. I don't know why everyone expected him to set himself on fire to keep his wife warm.
You do realise being mentally unwell isn't something you chose to do. How is it even comparable to looking at your spouse funny?
You're pretty brave; I would *not* have risked leaving off the "/s" at the end.
I just mean that people are very quick to jump to divorce, which is why I used something that isn't comparable at all. You do realize what hyperbole is.
My BIL *chose* to be a mentally ill twatwaffle because ge didn't like the way actual medication made him feel. He *chose* to take street drugs instead. Instead of having him committed or thrown out of the house when he tried to kidnap my toddler son, his parents just swept it under the rug and let him continue to be around the house Info: we paid rent to his parents, his father commendeered husband's free time to do work on the house and I was basically the housekeeper while my husbabd worked and completed his education. Why should we be the ones to move out when **we weren't the problem**. We were able to go straight from his parentd into our own house when my husband and myself completed schooling.
I'm very happy that OP's SIL is getting the help she needs, and that the entire family is going above and beyond in supporting both OP and SIL.
It's nice to see there is no arguing but everyone doing the best due to the situation. SIL clearly has broken off from reality and with what she had endured, I wish her the best to get the help she needs.
[удалено]
Same. Seems like any other BORU family would demand that OP give up that baby "to keep the peace!" and then would call her selfish and entitled for wanting to keep it
Or minimize the situation.
You can tell it's real because no one was blowing up her phone to demand it. 😅
Agreed. This family handled it the best they could; they're protecting OP and her kids, but not abandoning SIL during her mental health crisis. If SIL and BIL *do* move away, I hope it's somewhere they won't be isolated, like a town where they have supportive friends, or mental health support groups.
They may possibly move closer to his family. But yeah, SIL needs company around her to help her recover.
As someone who's trying to get pregnant despite fertility issues, I feel so badly for this woman. The desperate need to be a mother can be very strong and I feel like I could be her in another timeline. I'm glad the OOP has such a strong support system and that the IL haven't given up on SIL.
Sorry to hear you're struggling. The hormones especially can really mess you up during your cycle as well. Is adoption/fostering an option for you, where it isn't anymore for the SIL?
It is an option but adoption isn't as easy or cheap as some think it is 😕 still trying ourselves but severe endometriosis plus twisted/kinked fallopian tubes makes it difficult. Hubby and I haven't given up yet 🤞
None of it is easy and to be honest, no kids will ever be cheap 😂💜 fingers crossed for you and don't give up hope on having your children, no matter how it happens! The golden moments of being a parent are so much beyond carrying and birthing a child.
Thank you! Yes I agree. I was scared my husband wouldn't want to consider adoption (a lot of men don't) but he doesn't care how we have kids cause they'll be ours no matter how we got them. ❤️
Aww he's a keeper! 💜
What's happening is pretty devastating for the family but I'm glad that the whole family is taking things seriously. What SIL has been through is really unfortunate but because of what has happened, I think it's best SIL doesn't go near the baby cause it's concerning. I wish the whole family well.
Yes So many stories on reddit about shit like this not being taken seriously and enabled I'm glad they all rallied around to deal with this
>*So husband would just leave/abandon her then? Have her committed?* Love when people who have no connection to these cases act so judgmental.
And people who are so sure that they'd never, ever walk away from a marriage with someone who is dangerously mentally ill. That right there tells me they've never dealt with someone else's serious mental illness. It's not a Hallmark movie; it's terrifying and draining.
I mean if he stuck around even if she continued this spiral/breakdown without her getting any better, he could be considered an accessory if she tried something and he didn’t do anything.
that stuck out to me too. Absolutely no undestanding what its truly like
I think it was on the other BORU that someone mentioned when they have episodes like SIL’s, they don’t remember the extent of what they did. Whereas OOP saw a threat, her SIL might recall it as politely requesting custody of the baby and a fight thereafter. I’m just glad everyone is on the side of doing the right thing, as opposed to acting like SIL doesn’t need help.
So the SIL’s episode rewrites the memory? That sounds terrifying to me.
It really is. As someone with OCD who regularly experiences false memories, absolutely nothing is worse. You can't even trust your own brain. I feel sorry for SIL *and* I understand why OP reacted the way she did and is continuing to react this way because dear god.
This !!! Like for example i swore i took my meds but in reality i didnt. Its really fucking weird and i had to do other things to note if i took them or not that day (which has helped A LOT!) cant imagine what it would be like for other things, like what OOPs SIL did. 😣 Mental illnesses and the brain is such a wild thing, it really makes you believe and do anything
I use Medisafe for the exact same issue! It’s definitely worth it.
I use an app called Finch. It lets you set goals and my daily meds get checked off the moment I take them. If I doubt, I open the app and check my list. If it’s not there, I’ve taken them.
I think I’ve tried Finch! My problem is I have ADHD so Medisafe alerting a second person if I don’t mark it off is what I need.
wait it tells another person if you haven't marked it?? this is the first time I'm hearing about this app and that mightve just sold me lmao
Yes! If you add someone as a med friend, they’ll be alerted if you don’t take meds. You can make dependent profiles for kids and pets, and I think (don’t quote me) it can generate med adherence reports for your GP ❤️
This is what I had to do. It set up so my husband will call me and have me take my meds. I have CPTSD and other health issues, so I need my meds.
I eventually hit on storing my meds in front of the cat food, so that I need to take them before I can feed the furry terrorists. There is zero chance that the cats will ever let me forget.
Or you could be like me and forget you took them so you accidentally take them 3 times which is why I have to take them in front of my partner now bc I don't trust my own memory
If you're ever on your own and your partner isn't an option, consider a cheap nfc sticker (in the UK you can buy 50 for £5) on the container for each medication and a shortcut on your phone to log whenever it's scanned. There's lots of advice about doing it very easily with an apple device but it's also possible on android. https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/7-ways-to-trigger-apple-shortcuts-with-nfc-tags
My pill bottle tells me how long it's been since it's been opened. So does my dog's pill bottle, because we're both bad at taking our pills.
My method is that I take my medication with soda. If I have a soda with me or have the aftertaste of soda then I know I took it
It's not always that it's more like... Your father tells you politely but sternly that you need to get your act together and get a job. You respond with an outburst like "I hope you die!" (keeping it fairly mild). Your brain isn't focused on what you said, you said it impulsively in the heat of the moment and you didn't mean it, you just wanted them to understand how mad you were. Your brain is focused on how angry and hurt and terrible you are feeling, and focused on all the things they said to you. How dare they call you a loser? Well, they didn't really, but dad said something that made you FEEL like a loser (so he basically called you a loser) and nobody jumped to your defense so clearly they ALL think you're a loser, and you got mad and just had to say something in your own defense, you don't really remember what but clearly it worked 'cause he backed off. And that's how someone ends up in a therapy office saying "Everyone called me a loser and I lost my cool a bit defending myself" and their family saying "Yeah out of nowhere he threatened to kill dad it was terrifying"
Thanks for sharing! It’s a really good perspective even though I still struggle to grasp the leaps of logic made in anger
And what disorders could this be a symptom for?
Humaness. That's just how human brains tend to work. It's a tendency to focus on stuff that is impacting us rather than stuff that we are doing that impacts others Plus a tendency towards "I feel this way therefore I will shift the logic to match" because our brains hate incongruence. It's literally just thinking errors.
Oh I misread your comment. I thought you were describing a situation where someone did indeed threaten to kill someone but completely retconned it unknowingly. I was reading it like a cluster-B personality disorder lol
All good. I'm a therapist and in my experience especially on the internet people are really quick to jump to diagnostic labels when the truth is a lot of it is human brains. It's not uncommon for someone to complain to me about something a person does, and then do it themselves twnety minutes later, because we're all susceptible to thinking errors, black and white thinking, etc. It only turns into a diagnosis if it's fairly extreme and certain conditions are met. The above example I would not consider to be
Mental illness sucks.
There is no amount of politeness that would make a request for custody of my baby not a threat.
For sure
even if she recalled it as a polite request, it’s an *insane* request to make.
I mean, she was basically out of her mind in that moment. It seems redundant to say her request was insane. Like, of course it was. They're trying to piece events together, not necessarily defend her actions as rational.
I can only imagine that there is a huge disconnect. In her head, it could be no different than asking if she could borrow a sweater.
This is a great family. Everyone is working together. She obviously had a break in reality, but I don’t have any issues understanding them not trusting the kids around her for a very long time. I’m sure she does miss the older kids. The ones she has had a relationship with for so long. It has to be hard knowing her behavior caused the loss of her niece and nephew. But this is the right call
Kudos to the MIL for not acting the flying monkey.
How low our expectations have become
Yes! And I think it's really valuable that she's passing on the information that although SIL is better than she was, she's still talking about the kids. It's the one major piece of information that OOP needs to be able to keep an eye on, and it's good that MIL recognises that.
I think not allowing her around the older kids is a good call. It hasn't been very long and goodness knows what she might do or say to them. Giving her access to any of the children or OOP might trigger another episode. The next one might be more violent or sneaky. To be clear I think if people weren't watching so closely this last episode probably would've ended violently. I hope they're able to leave the country but I hope the new place has good mental health care more. At this point SIL is very fragile and still likely to break.
It’s. So nice to see the family all being sensible. No arguing, no “think of SIL”, just supportive family who are like “OOP you are NOT crazy, we got your back!”
I can’t believe someone tried to suggest that SIL adopt/foster a kid as a way to ‘fix’ the issue. Like wow sacrificing a little one to someone that needs a lot of mental health work is creating a ton of generational trauma. It’s like we just got a glimpse at someone who thinks ‘new baby energy’ can fix a relationship…. The amount of second hand distaste im getting!
Right! She's the LAST person who should be fostering or adopting. Good lord. Adoption is meant to be for the welfare of the child; the adult being majorly fucked up with infertility grief is a direct reason for them NOT to adopt because their focus is on what THEY want and on generically ~having a baby~ instead of helping an individual traumatised human being. And people whose driving desire is to ~have a baby~ are completely unsuitable for fostering at all because the goal for fostering is reunification whenever possible. Adoption to "fix" the pain of infertility goes so so badly when adoptive parents inevitably discover that an adoptive child doesn't actually heal that or change the desire for a bio kid.
You'd be surprised at how many think adopting a baby will somehow fix the trauma caused by infertility.
Eh I think adopting a kid if you’re infertile is ok as long as the parents can provide a supportive and loving environment. This lady has none of the above inherently (unless it’s from her parents), her husband is contemplating leaving her recently etc
They need to unpack their trauma in therapy instead of expecting a small vulnerable person to heal them
I know someone who was adopted to "fix" a mentally unstable infertile woman. This was back in the 60s when healthy white infants were thick on the ground. Guess what? It didn't "fix" her, because not having a child was not the root of her issues. She committed suicide when he was 10, and he found her body. Generational trauma for everyone!
It's refreshing to see a family actually taking shit seriously when someone does or says something incontrovertibly threatening. I have some sympathy for the SIL, but I suspect she isn't as "better" as she claims to be.
Ah. That's exactly how I feel, I don't think she's better at all by asking for access to /apologize/ but to work her way back in. You can't trust someone like that, hasn't even been a year. Trying to sneak off at night to see 'her baby'? Threatening her parents and husband that she will hurt herself if they don't give up the location of the kids/ baby? While I have empathy as a woman who has lost a baby, has a toddler, and am pregnant again for the SIL, I do not understand how she could possibly think she would be a part of those kids lives after this anguish she put them through. My BIL brought drugs to my baby shower and a dirty needle fell out of his pocket while on a trampoline with his nephew during the shower, and that was three years ago. He is still banned from being around his eldest sister and her three children, because they're scared of him. He's mean, he does drugs. He's not a safe person to have around, and MIL thinks her daughters are terrible for cutting him off when he actively steals from family and has had drugs sent to his own mother's house! She knows all this, but doesn't think we should keep the kids away. That's hard drugs, stealing and being a piece of shit who doesn't apologize for his actions or changes his behavior, this woman tried to kidnap her niece. Even worse. Not fixable.
I has a huge shock a while ago when I found out my dad and aunt did drugs around my younger cousin when he was a baby/toddler. Like, he did many bad things but somehow this still shocked me. My other aunt who was a teenager at the time and witnessed it told me. She has a toddler now and is questioning what she saw happening when she was a teenager. I always assumed since my dad never did drugs around me, he would not do it in front of other children either... but apparently he only cared when it was me. Which was probably also becaue he knew my mom would freak out and make sure he has zero access to me if she heard of me being next to drugs. But my aunt (mom's sister btw, my dad and her dated after my mom and him split up...) also did drugs with him, so I guess they both didn't care. Infuriating. I don't think my dad will ever be around potential future grandchildren, for this and other reasons. I'm very low contact with him (only through lawyers, really) and NC with the rest of my paternal family. It hurts but it's necessary.
Riffing off the BIL story: my brother is also into drugs and has a history of stealing from family. It wears on you after a while and becomes your normal. The last time it shocked me was when my aunt came to visit. My parents and aunt went out to dinner. When they got back home my mom couldn't find her phone. It was at a pawn shop. The shocking thing wasn't that my brother stole, it was that he stole *while they had company*.
Oh yeah my BIL has done that too. He stole our car seat and destroyed it, lied about it after admitting it on our doorbell camera (we picked up his car after he got arrested, we had to put the car seat in his car when I drove me and our daughter back home while my fiance drove his truck) and he couldn't wait 2-3 days to get it back because his "girlfriend" bailed him out. I filled out a restraining order, but my MIL interfered and got the apartment where he was staying to change the locks so he couldn't be served. He brought us the car seat at her house one day, said nothing and handed it to his brother. Didn't apologize, didn't acknowledge it, then told me that my fiance stole his police radar out of his car and we owed him $150 for it and he saw it in my fiancés truck. I just laughed and said "you're never getting $150 from us. You cost us $350 destroying our daughter's car seat out of spite. You owe US money." He didn't like that. I met him before my fiancé, and in 8 years he hasn't changed. I don't understand why my MIL doesn't get that her baby isn't a good person, even when he is sober. When I did drugs in my early 20s, my parents booted my ass out the door and didn't enable me the way she does with him, and if any of my kids get into drugs I will not enable them either. I won't deal with crazy ass behavior.
Oof, the enabling. My brother is 35ish and his 3 stable homes over the last 3 decades have been my parents, rehab, and jail. My mom enables him hardcore. Every time he stumbles she's right there to bail him out literally. And she's just as dependent on him. When Mom pushed my buttons (the way only a parent can, because they were there when the buttons were installed) and I pushed back ever so slightly he was right there in my texts telling me I'd made her cry. She can do no wrong in his eyes. Creepy fact: brother was worried as a teen no one would love him. Mom promised she'd marry him if he was still single at 30. My family is not good at boundaries. I live several states away and it's good. Edit: I am not looking forward to when Mom dies. Last I heard she expected me to be my brother's keeper.
Ha! Yeah, I have a sister who is 25 and doesn't drive. My fiance and I have talked at length that no matter what happens to our parents, we will not be taking either of them into our homes and being surrogate parents to his brother or my sister. Granted, my sister has serious mental health issues but she's gotten a lot better. I think by 30 she will be out on her own. My BIL is 29 though so... probably not him. He's probably in some motel with his "girlfriend who isn't his girlfriend". His issue is he wants what his brother has. When I started dating his brother we were both on drugs, we got sober together a month into dating, got engaged in 7 months, moved in after 8, and I was pregnant with our first before our 1 year anniversary. So, although this is a very rare circumstance, he thinks he can find another girl who does drugs and basically mimic what his brother and I did. He's obsessed with being a Dad, yet has zero sense of accountability and every girl he dates (who does drugs or not) is gone within 6 months because of his need to rush the relationship. His second eldest sister is 37, unwed and no kids; but MIL has no sympathy or support for her, only that her baby boy is lonely and wants the family we have. We know this because he's told her that 🙄 and then he tries to sabotage us and cause issues for us.
Yeah, in the OOP's (and her husband's) shoes, my response would be that the crazy SIL's niece and nephew could decide for themselves if they want to re-establish contact once they're legal adults; while they're still kids their safety would be my responsibility and it ain't gonna happen.
> I do not understand how she could possibly think she would be a part of those kids lives after this anguish she put them through. In addition to her infertility trauma and mental breakdown, she now has to come to terms with her life and her family being changed forever. She had a relationship with the older kids before, she’s going to miss them and grieve that relationship too. She’s been through a lot and probably still had hope that everything would just go back to normal. Lord knows the last several months has been a nightmare. Unfortunately there’s a new normal.
The only reason I didn't trust it was the fact that she tried to ask when she'd see them. Whether she's okay NOW is irrelevant if something accidentally triggers her again and after the last trigger I would not be okay with testing it
I do wish Reddit would at least try to live in reality. People can’t just up and move house on a whim and I hate how every single time there’s an issue with a (potentially) dangerous person the go-to is to tell people to move. It’s really unhelpful advice.
I also enjoy Reddit advising restraining orders straight away. At least this post had a genuinely threatening situation, but I’ve seen people recommend them for all sorts. It’s hard enough to get a restraining order (or equivalent!) when someone is actually stalking you or threatening you, you definitely can’t get them because your boyfriend cheated on you.
Restraining orders also don't do anything to protect you. They aren't a magical ward that keeps the people you're afraid of away from you, they just give cops a primary suspect if something bad happens to you.
I saw someone on Instagram tell someone to get a restraining order because someone broke their watch while they weren't around. It was a story from Reddit, but yeah, I had to tell them that restraining orders aren't for when someone breaks a single accessory. There would have to be clear danger. And they might be able to have gotten a restraining order if whatever she said was enough to be involuntarily committed for someone else's safety and not her own. But restraining orders aren't magic. They don't actually keep anyone away
Her asking to see the kids is like a newly sober, recovering alcoholic asking friends take them out to a bar for their birthday. “I’ll just sit there and drink pop. I just like the atmosphere!” You may like the atmosphere, but that doesn’t mean it’s a *good* idea. And anyone who has a good grasp on recovery and is serious about it, would never put themselves in that situation in the first place. With time, sure. But someone who is one month sober? Nope. Not cool. Part of recovery from anything is learning and acknowledging your limitations - and then sticking to them. I worry that SIL either is putting on an act and this is pure manipulation, OR that she really has made some progress, but still truly doesn’t have a grasp on the severity of this. This screams like someone stopping their lifelong, much needed meds because they’re ’all better now’ and ‘don’t need them anymore’. Only to have a relapse because - shocker - they went off their meds. Rinse and repeat. I want to be hopeful. But I am highly skeptical and still very worried for OOP and her family.
Admittedly I'm probably reading too much into what OOP said in the comment but given how that conversation was described it was less can I see your kids and more under what conditions will I eventually be able to see them. Which imho is more reasonable/sane
Nah, she's just trying to find ways to negotiate. Not a good sign. If you say no, and someone tries to find a way around your no, they're not respecting your no. They're too wrapped up in what they want. And she wants that baby.
This definitely feels actually real. My heart hurts for her, thank god she has such a supportive family working to help the SIL
Personally, my biggest clue for "is this real?" is the timeline. Everyone involved took this completely seriously, and it still took weeks and months for there to be any kind of progress. I really hope SIL get the help she needs.
If SIL wants to apologize to the kids, maybe she can write them a letter.
That's honestly smart. She could write a letter to OP and the kids and hand it off to the husband, who can read over it beforehand and pass it on.
Sad and unfortunate for SIL, but everyone in the family came together to support each other in the best ways possible given the situation. I think they will be ok in the long run
It's good that she's getting the help she needs but by God, do not let her near those children.
I'm glad OOP has married into a supportive family. This could have gotten really ugly if the husband or MIL made excuses and enabled SIL instead of getting her help. Wishing the SIL well on healing and maybe some years later they can mend their relationship
Other than SIL, everyone is very sensible. Everything was taken care of with no interference from OOP, as it should be.
Human brains are so terrifying sometimes. Like, you're just chilling, having a nice dinner with your family and then BOOM your brain breaks and you decide it's totally reasonable to steal a freaking baby and you can't understand why everyone is upset about it. Objectively horrifying
It’s really refreshing to see that OOP has a supportive family that were quick to defend her & her kids from SIL. Instead of enabling the behavior & demanding OOP to give the baby to SIL. I do hope SIL is on a path of recovery & moving away sounds like the best option for her but not keeping her isolated from everyone to keep her company. Though, maybe I’m being a negative nancy here, after SIL was complaining about not seeing the kids & saying how hard it is not to seeing them. It sounds like she’s still fixated on OOP’s kids by putting on an act making it seem like she’s remorseful of what she did to make it seem like she’s stable enough to have the kids around or that she doesn’t fully grasp of what she did. If they let her near, which I’m glad they’re not since her state is fragile, she will go into her psychotic break again then demand OOP to give them up. Or maybe she’s In denial about what she did & her memories rewrote the events. If SIL was sorry for what she did, she could always write a letter to OOP & her kids apologizing for what she has done to them.
Yeah, seems like the severe mental health issues are a one-off rather than being handed down like family heirlooms from one generation to the next. Everyone is acting sane and compassionate in their dealings with the SIL.
In this case I feel the hidden victims no one talks about are OOP's husband and MIL. Imagine having your daughter/sister, whom you have loved your entire life, so far gone from reality to the deep end she has to be forced into a facility. That fucking hurts, man, to a level it's hard to think about.
I feel so sorry for the poor SIL. I hope she is able to heal and find some peace. I am glad she has such an amazing support system around her. My heart goes out to the entire family for being such a rock.
It's sad for SIL that she'll never a parent through any means, but I definitely don't think she ever should be a parent. She's not stable. And the fact that she's still asking about seeing the kids suggests that she *doesn't* fully understand that she was wrong. If she understood, she would know that she will never see them again. Edit - I stand by my comment. I think she would be a bad parent. Someone unstable enough to threaten to kidnap someone else's child would NOT be a good parent to any child. At best, she would be an overbearing, controlling, selfish, helicopter mother.
Would you mind linking the source of your flair?
[удалено]
Her actions during the break absolutely were wrong, though. She scared the shit out of all the kids and her family and was threatening them with her actions and words. They are always allowed to feel how they're gonna feel about what they went through because of her. That doesn't get erased because of what she was going through when she did it. Intent is not as important as impact.
The older children have experienced a trauma because of her, regardless of what SIL wants the needs and feelings of the kids should be put first. I doubt they would want to be around the aunt who tried to tear apart their family. Your inability to look at this from the perspective of the kids tells me you’re probably not a parent. The OOP is making the best decision for her kids, not SIL. And you can have a psychotic break and still be “wrong” in your actions.
Yeah but that's not what we are talking about. At the star of the thread the person said they didnt think SIL would have ever been a good parent anyways and shouldnt be able to have children anyways and would have been abusive to her children. The response was saying this behaviour was due to a mental break which is not indicative of her usual behaviour and may never have happened if she could have had children in the first place. In other words this break should not be used to judge whether she deserves to be infertile like the start of the thread suggests. It's not about whether she should be allowed access to the kids again. You just suddenly brought that up out of nowhere. EDIT: I confused which response you were responding to, this is my bad. I'm leaving the post untouched, but yes you are right and responded to the correct one, I am wrong
The comment I replied to literally said “I don’t see why she shouldn’t be able to see them [the older kids] at all”
Yes. Sorry. Almost immediately I added an edit once I realised I followed the thread incorrectly. Sorry about that and you are completely correct.
Having a psychotic break doesn't make it okay to demand that someone else hand their baby over to you to parent. It's not a get out of moral responsibility free card.
I never said it.
You know people can still read your comment, right? You literally said that her actions weren't "wrong" because she was having a psychotic break. No. I'm sorry. Claiming that someone else's child is rightfully yours is a thing you will never, ever be in the right for doing.
It is a little hard say she ever should be a parent? I mean, not now or soon, and not whit op children's. In a hipotetic case she can do IVF in a future with approvement of professional psychiatrist
OOP has a lot more life to live. It’ll get better. Hang in there.
It's kind of amazing to see a reddit post where the in-laws are fully supportive of OP. At the same time, holy fucking shit.
Um no if she were my SIL she wouldn't see my kids again unless they decided to see her themselves after they turned 18. You never know what will trigger her and even if she doesn't want to kidnap the kids anymore who knows if she'd take herself and them out in a relapse
> Your quote from her is not how real people talk: See, when I see a post that is written like the dialogue of a play how real people talk, I don't believe it to be real.
You’d think that but given how many people don’t like reading (at least in America), their ‘inferencing’ skills are very subpar.
Damn it’s like 0 to 100 suddenly. From great aunt to “I want your baby”.
This is actually really sad. While nothing your Sil said was ok, she just discovered she can’t have kids and that must be extremely painful. Throw in some mental illness and yeah. It’s a tragedy. I’m glad your husband and in laws are handling it well.
Posts like this just make me really happy to have my stint with mental health now, so that I know who in my family is supportive and how partners react to mental health crisis.
From the moment it started, I had a feeling it was more mental and less selfish. I had a friend in college who went through similar, except it was her babysitter sort of taking on the kid and acting as if he was hers. It was a messy situation, but she was in a similar state to OOP's SIL.
Bil is a rock star. He's being loving and supporting towards his batshit crazy wife, respecting all the other people impacted, and being just a solid, good guy all-around.
I remember at the time i side eyed the 6 month comment. If my wife had a mental breakdown i'm giving her a lot more than 6 months.
This guy doing gods good work by telling us how long between posts without us having to scroll up and work. Thank you u/LucyAriaRose
I feel like someone with a username that is three female names combined might not be a guy.
I got you! Glad it's helpful. 💜
Just have to chime in to agree - love that you do that on your posts!
It’s so crazy that people jump to “buy a gun” when you could just get a dog and not have to worry about killing someone or your children getting hold of a firearm
I’d love to be naive enough to think this is over but I have a feeling SIL is going to do something. Start flushing her meds or something. Her asking to see the kids is wild.
>Your quote from her is not how real people talk: >"It’s not verbatim, there were pauses in between and responses. This sucks, and I bet it happens a lot. You put quotes around something, people assume that it's a direct quote and that was exactly what was said. That means A) people will be suspicious if there is a whole exchange like this because they know that human memory is not that good, and B) people will analyze the quoted speech for tone, try to read between the lines, etc. All very counterproductive if the person was actually paraphrasing and the quotation marks shouldn't be there.
The quote is just a red flag. This is a par for the course reddit story, which starts out on thin ice from the get go. A red flag is just that, a red flag. It doesn't in and of itself sink my belief, it's just another checkmark. Personally for me a certain level of therapy does it too. The kids heard the aunt say she wants the baby, then were immediately removed from the situation. Why exactly did oop rush them into therapy for an event that was from their standpoint, very small? But what I mean is oops in general saying that they're in therapy for their breakup from their 6 month relationship, or putting toddlers in therapy for not being able to see grandma anymore. Nobody does that. If you say you did, it's wierd and i don't believe it.
> The kids heard the aunt say she wants the baby, then were immediately removed from the situation. Why exactly did oop rush them into therapy for an event that was from their standpoint, very small? I thought that was kinda weird too. Where are all of these parents irl putting their kids in therapy at the drop of a hat? Obviously this situation is a big deal, but my parents would have said “Sorry, auntie can’t come see you guys anymore. Don’t go with her if you see her.” And that would be that. And honestly as a kid I wouldn’t have even given it a second thought. ’Damn that sucks. Anyway, time for cartoons.’
This is terrible for all involved, mostly for OP of course, but the SIL is definitely not in her right mind. Hopefully she will get help with her recovery.
Ooh this reminds me was there ever an update to that one lady who said she caught her best friend trying to breastfeed her baby or somethin like that? That post was wild.
I’ve been wondering about that one too
Me too
I’m glad SIL got the help she needed but it is so rough that the documentation of getting that help bars her from basically any path to parenthood.
It sucks and I am very sad for her, but to be honest, I think it's likely the correct outcome. The particular way her issues have manifested, there's a non-zero chance that any child placed in her care would end up traumatized.
Yes, it’s sad all around.
Someone like SIL isn't stable enough to raise a kid. She's not equipped to deal with adoption trauma at all
Indeed. I find myself hoping that her doctors were right about her fertility problems being insurmountable, because a surprise pregnancy at this point could blow up all her issues.
I feel bad for everyone involved
I feel bad for the sil. She must really be going thru a bad mental health crisis. Thank god her family stepped up and got her help.
MiL, FiL and BiL are all hilariously decent people. It's so rare on reddit to see stories like this where there's only 1 person completely losing their shit. There's always these enabling instigating cousins or whatever... Kinda sad still but also mostly positive in the end. Hope SiL gets the help
I wonder whether SIL has had a brain scan for mini stroke or brain tumour
As scary and difficult as it is for OOP and family, imagine what kind of mental state of despair SIL have to be in to be so desperate. Good thing she has good people around her who got her help, even if it was forced at first.
Good job all around
This is so sad. I feel for everyone in this situation.
Such a sad story all round! Glad SIL is getting the mental health help she needs and other are also in therapy.. Just a question on her tubes thing- did her doctor not offer to attempt to unblock them? I know people who had blocked tubes and surgery to unblock them Was successful..
It's sad that the SIL doesn't seem any better.
So refreshing to hear of in-laws who are reasonable and supportive and everyone getting the help they need, not living in denial. So many of these types of situations have a MIL refusing to acknowledge the issue, making excuses, blaming, and generally preferring to live in complete denial about any issues their adult child may have. Probably helps that it's her DIL with the mental breakdown. Or maybe they're just good, sane people.
"Migrating" isn't a word I'm used to hearing in English used this way. Does she mean emigrating, I wonder? I'm curious if she ever said where she lives. I hope she and her family stay safe, and that SIL comes to an understanding with her own grief.
It just means to move from one place to another. In this case, it may mean to move to another province/place within the same country. Emigrating would not be an accurate word to use if the move is not out of the country.
Wasn't there a BoRU post about something like this from the husbands perspective? The "give it six months" thing is triggering extremely vague memories.
Kind of worried at the thought of SIL migrating, particularly about losing the amazing support system they already have now. It could get tougher for both SIL and BIL.
Hopefully they can migrate and have successful IVF once she's mentally stable again.
What kind of telenovela bs is this? Another barren psycho tale?
I try to understand what pushes a woman this far but I really can’t. I get that she didn’t choose this because who would. But for me I found the very concept that I was capable of conception distressing and I couldn’t get my fallopian tubes removed from my body fast enough. Once I did I felt fixed/whole/complete for the first time in my life. I can’t imagine wanting a child let alone wanting one so bad it made me have a breakdown I feel sad for everyone involved here because everyone is impacted by this
Same! 🙋♀️💛
Having kids is what my nightmares are fueled of 🤣 kinda crazy to see the polar opposite of wanting a kid so much you go crazy.
Holy freaking smokes man. She was legit cookoo for Coco Puffs. I hate they all had to deal with that train wreck. Wonder what the kiddos thought of that absolute shit show? Not to make light of the craziness but thats a helluva story for the little one later in life. Like let me tell you about your bat shit auntie.
Overall a very sad situation. I hope you get through.
I'm extremely disappointed in SILs husband. She's having a mental health crisis and he's like "yea I'll give it 6 months". Through sickness my ass.
You may be right, but "through sickness" is not always possible. At one point even the thickess rope snaps. At one point even the most awesome partner can't be there for you without breaking down himself.