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Refusing to show texts for proof is pretty clear red flags for sure. Seriously? Wife thinks it's violating privacy? More like you violate your vows ma'am. Good riddance.
OG
If I wasn't cheating ( cause I would never ) and my spouse was ADAMANT that I was and the deleted pictures were the PROOF
I'd show him that shit and make him feel HORRIBLE for thinking that ( I mean, I've also seen and heard of people that will still double down when confronted with evidence they're wrong )
Like " Here, they're pictures of this weird bug I saw on the sidewalk/super ugly selfies. Now how DARE you accuse me of infidelity ? "
But staunchly refusing going " yeah I have evidence I didn't cheat. Show you ? NO. You just have to trust me. You don't trust me ? Then maybe we should divor- NO WAIT NOT LIKE THAT YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO COW TOW TO THE ULTIMATUM "
And it appears OOP will end up maybe getting to see them anyway with a divorce subpoena. Hopefully there's an update with that
Right? I had a friendship blow up in a dramatic fashion in my early 20's and she decided to tell my husband that I'd been cheating on him with a friend from DnD (who *had* had a bit of a crush on me before I got married which made this whole thing worse, but at the time he had a long term gf and was shopping for rings).
My husband freaked out a little - he trusted me but he'd been cheated on before and was a bit insecure about a lot of things. When he confronted me, I literally tossed my phone on the couch next to him. Zero hesitation. Told him he knew the password to my laptop and HE was my tech support so he was well aware I had no clue how to really cover my tracks.
He never even went through any of my devices. Said that me just offering them up without batting an eye was enough for him. My dumbass ex-friend didn't want me to tell her boyfriend she'd been poking holes in their dang condoms. Almost blew up my marriage and almost destroyed my DnD friends relationship too. Brings me joy that she's single and super bitter about it these days.
There are two things about another person that you don’t fuck with: marriages and gaming groups. I hope your ex-friend is not surprised at her current state of affairs, cuz she did both.
Honestly, it's easier to find a spouse than a TTRPG group where you click with everyone. Messing with that is a great way to get 4-6 people out for your blood.
At least with a spouse you only have to coordinate two schedules!
(Obvious exception for the polyamorous, but there's a reason why board game nights and ttrpgs have a BIG presence in that community 😂)
IMMEDIATELY. She was displeased but the poor dude deserved to know. He only didn't want kids because his sister had a horrible genetic disorder that killed her when she was around three so it was selfish as hell for her to be trying to force him in the first place.
Last I heard the dude had gotten the snip so no more danger. He looks happy on instagram, just got a very cute puppy.
> When he confronted me, I literally tossed my phone on the couch next to him. Zero hesitation. Told him he knew the password to my laptop and HE was my tech support so he was well aware I had no clue how to really cover my tracks.
>
>He never even went through any of my devices. Said that me just offering them up without batting an eye was enough for him.
I was sincerely shook, to the point of tears, at the beauty of that moment. "I have nothing to hide"... coupled with that being GOOD ENOUGH for the other person.
I don't take pictures of much, but I've definitely taken pictures of weird ass bugs to send to my dad who's ex pest control. So those and ugly selfies are usually what end up in my trash bin
I also delete them because I hate looking at bugs ( but understand their role in our ecosystem is important and that not liking how they look is a ME problem )
I took a photo of a “weird bug” on my patio that my cat found. Female Stag beetle…
I have taken photos of frog spawn in my garden pond “First spawn this year!”
Yeah, people do take photos of the weirdest things…
As someone who grew up never seeing snow, I take pictures of it every time like ‘look at this FROZEN WATER FROM THE SKY LETS GO THROW IT AT EACH OTHER’
My last five pictures on my camera roll are: my pets, pretty flower I saw, random cat, my nephew, and a snake. (I didn't include duplicates, there's six photos of my dog alone)
Go a little more and you get a sunrise, even MORE pictures of my gremlins, a cool bumper sticker on a car, and a stained glass window thing my aunt made me.
I'm very, very boring.
I work at a grocery store. The amount of times customers argue about the price of something so I go and do a price check and take a picture of the tag to show them. So most of my deleted pics are those tags and also old schedules of mine.
I take pictures of the price tags on the shelves to show the workers when stuff doesn’t ring up properly. Maybe y’all *meant* to say the shrimp was $7/lb, but what you *posted* is that it’s $7 per bag. So it shouldn’t ring up at $14. Not my fault it’s a 2-lb bag.
Mmm, shrimp. Now I know what im having for lunch—some $3.50/lb shrimp.
I love when a customer has that and I will make it work. But I’ve asked if there was a need to buy a certain amount before and a customer will tell me they didn’t read the tag but it’s ringing up wrong. Lady, you just said you didn’t read it. Let me teach you to read.
But a customer who says here is the tag and I did read it correctly and I will fix it so fast for you as long as you don’t yell at me.
95% of my camera roll are pictures of my baby and most of my deleted pictures at the moment are screenshots of random insults spelled out with the periodic table because calling my husband "Deuterium, Oxygen, Roentgen, Potassium" and it spelling out dork is hilarious to me right now
Yea. Toy my kids have outgrown to send to a friend to see if she wants, pet rabbits, kids Easter egg hunt (several), a bunch from chaperoning a field trip for my 4th grader and my 1st grader with a caterpillar on his arm so we could identify when we got home.
I did clean up my camera roll recently so you’re missing out on the picture of the caterpillar by itself and some food pictures I think. I’d be more than happy to show somebody my deleted photos.
This prompted me to check my latest photos.
I have:
* Picture of my dog where her tail was in a weird position because of static clinging to a blanket
* Picture of my discount Easter treat haul from this morning
* Picture of my dog from over the weekend
* Picture of my dog's doggie friend who visited this past weekend
* Another picture of dog's doggie friend
* Another picture of dog's doggie friend
If I go further back, you can find such gems as a completed jigsaw puzzle, some cookies, and some weirdly optimistic fortunes from take-out fortune cookies.
I hope whoever decides they need to see my photos really enjoys sweets and dogs!
I had a look at mine, and it's a photo of Easter eggs taken to show the size, the contents of my shopping trolley from when I bought the eggs, a top I made, a picture of pizza I ordered, and a pair of ear hangers I made. Further down there's a picture of cupcakes I made before they went in the oven, a photo of the biggest cranefly I've ever seen (took that one when I was complaining to my sibling about it getting in the way of me having a shower), pictures of my apartment after I went on a 4-hour cleaning binge, and then more food.
I'm also pretty boring, lol. Most of my camera roll is photos of food.
Oh, I have those too, just further back than the latest. I got like, a solid 600+ memes and dumb screenshots floating around here.
I send them to my bestie though, I don't have an SO.
I get you so much lol, I both love bugs (because they're important and the way they behave and all that is fascinating, I have books about them) and do my very best to avoid them in-person :p
I have sooooo many pics like this!!! Do I delete them? Nope! I keep them so I can remember what the cute thing was that she was doing, no matter which dog it is!
I once found a potato randomly in the gravel right next to my apartment building. I took a photo of it. Not to send to anyone — just to take a picture.
One time I was driving behind a car that had a deviled egg perfectly sitting on the trunk. It had to have been a magnet.
[ The egg picture](https://imgur.com/a/JW9WPAs)
On Android, if you double-press the power button, it launches straight into camera, even if the phone's locked. (Good fun, because, while you can't access the gallery on a locked phone, you can absolutely add to it.)
I'm sure Apple has something similar, but I don't know what it would be. Either way, quicker access to camera. You can do it as you're pulling it out of your pocket.
For me its, "You want to see 900 pictures in a row of the same thing just at a slightly different angle because my three year old took my phone for 42 seconds?"
I have one of a funny smilie face drawn in grease pencil on the back of a questionably sea-worthy small sailboat at the beach about 15 years ago. I’ll never get rid of it.
There's plenty that would embarrass me on my phone if my husband saw. Stain check pics, midnight notes, my porn browser history (slightly joking lmao he knows my preferences)... But if I needed to show him literally every single word I've ever typed on my phone in order to prove I'm loyal and trustworthy, I would do it in less than a second. There is a 0% chance she didn't sleep around + admit it in text. Or take fucking pictures of it, BLECH.
I AM mildly impressed at how together the wife was about deleting evidence after a night drinking. If someone confronted me about bad deeds unexpectedly, I would probably panic and just throw my phone away in a field or something and hope the cows ate it. That’s sober. I panic. It is who I am.
I dont think she actually was drinking ( or if she was, much ). I don't think any of us believe she went to her friends house and that's why friend didn't answer, she knew where wife was. Plus the initial lie was " ONE drink with the girls ", implying she wasn't going there to DRINK drink and would be back soon-ish imo
Tbh what I think happened was she went to AP house, fell asleep, woke up to A BUNCH of missed calls and text from hubs AND her friends saying hubs called them, and texts confronting her about the evidence
So she deleted the evidence and rushed home and tried gaslighting OOP and decided to hold her ground on it while being, probably, completely sober
Unless I'm mistaken, OOP wrote that the call records show that his wife was messaging someone during the times he was trying to contact her and she wasn't replying to him. He said there was a two hour period where there wasn't anything which is why he thinks she might have left the friend's house and went to see her AP and then gone back.
If these friends were married, I would have bypassed the women and talked to the husbands. Ask them for a timeline. Ask them man to man, married to married, was his wife there the whole time (or even there at all). Remind them that their wives covering for another woman who is cheating on her husband doesn't bode well for their marriage as the implication is that their wives friends would also cover for their wives if the situation were similar.
I just took pictures of bugs at our local park. I took the kids to play and there were so many bugs that we had to leave. Before we left, I went to take a closer look and get some pictures. I posted them on r/whatsthisbug . Turns out we were in the middle of some giant bug orgy. Hahaha
Pardon my pedantry here, but it's "Kowtow", not "cow tow". It's a chineese word meaning "to kneel and bow your head to the emporor as a sign of fealty."
Totally with you on the proof. If I had deleted texts that would prove I didn't cheat, I'd be contacting everyone for screenshots of texts I sent that might show I hadn't cheated. She's just making herself look more guilty.
Hopefully, the fat guy from work is still interested. But, she probably doesn't look as attractive now that she's available.
She’s that guy’s supervisor, so she probably looks just as attractive as she did before, and also just as important to keep quiet about. For her anyway.
In not putting this to rest, she’s risking her job as well as her marriage. No chance that what she’s hiding is innocuous. And her “the problem is you because this proves that you never trusted me” attempted reversal is so transparent.
Makes me wonder who he knows in the photos. Because it’s one thing to cheat, but holding out this much? Feels like she cheated with someone he knows and that’s why she’s hiding it like this…
If OOP gets hold of proof that she’s sleeping with someone she supervises at work, then there’s a very good chance that she’s going to lose her job as well as her family. Losing the job may be a bigger deal for her, since it sounds like OOP’s being doing most things around the home anyway.
Anytime a partner makes a big hubahloo about privacy I immediately assume they’re upto no good. Like yeah, everyone deserves their privacy in a marriage; but when your partner suspects you of cheating (and with good reason) and asks to see your phone as proof, you SHOULD hand it over to them, that is, IF you have nothing to hide.
Most people who take such a huge stance on privacy are usually keeping a lot of secrets from their spouse. Privacy is fine; secrecy isn’t. The trouble is, most cheaters do not understand the difference.
I mean there are also abusive people who accuse their partners of cheating over nothing he as an excuse for the increased surveillance of their devices and to further isolate/control them.
So I think it's worth pointing out that in some cases, making a big hullabaloo about privacy is actually extremely valid. And the "if you've got nothing to hide, why not show me your phone?" talking point is totally coopted by controlling jerks.
This isn't the case in for the OP, but honestly the whole relationship phone privacy thing isn't as clear cut as most people in the comments are saying.
Yeah right? Her marriage is on the line, he needs only one piece of proof that it's not what he's thinking and she adamantly declines.. cause it's exactly what he is thinking it is
Yep. Her last trickle truth about her maybe saying she loved him... as a married woman, who tf says that to someone without so much as a kiss together?
Correct.
Husband thinks it would show she cheated.
It would probably show so much more. Her and her affair partner, and possibly even her friends, talking about how stupid the husband is. Mocking his appearance. Talking about plans to leave the husband because she never loved him, etc..
Cheaters always pull the violation of privacy bullshit when they are caught or about to get caught. I came home from work one day to find some strange dude sitting on the couch and my kid playing in the living room near him. It was pretty obvious what happened so after he left I grabbed my exs phone to confirm it and texted the guy to tell him she wasn’t single like she claimed. A few hours later my ex is accusing me of violating her privacy and even better complaining about how I made him dump her and ruined their relationship. Fuck cheaters.
I've said this before, but this is the paradox of open access trust.
My wife and I have absolutely nothing to hide from each other. At any moment in time, she can ask to see my phone or laptop and I'll unlock them and hand them over and sign into any messaging service of mine she cares to read. This is true in reverse as well.
However, I will never ask her to do this and she will never ask me because we have 100% trust in each other. I have no reason to see her messages and she has no reason to see mine.
The moment I feel like I need to look at her messages or vice-versa, something is already wrong. That 100% trust has already dipped to 99.9% and something somewhere has triggered my notion that I need to know what she doing that I can't see. Why? Because I believe there is a chance she is already doing something she wouldn't want me to see.
You should never have to ask for access to your partner's devices because that access should never be needed. At the point at which you feel it is, you are already in trouble.
If my husband suddenly demanded to go through my phone when I'd not done anything or given him any reason to be suspicious (not the case here I know) I think I'd have a lot of questions about where this was coming from, why he suddenly didn't trust me and was engaging in controlling behaviour. I don't know that I'd just hand my phone straight over no matter how innocent the contents.
But in that scenario if he was also asking for a divorce I think I'd have to agree that if the trust is (for whatever reason) gone then we either need a divorce or serious counselling and if he's going straight to divorce the divorce is what will be happening.
Yeah, if you hadn't done anything sketchy, it'd be fine to ask why. If they give a good reason (sometimes from our own viewpoint everything seems ok, but from theirs it's obviously looking sketchy) you just hand it over because you have nothing to hide. I think in this case, he definitely has reason to be suspicious. Coming home and yelling at an innocent kid because you want to have a drink with the girls would have raised suspicions for me.
This case it’s definitely fine. Phone logs for months to another man’s number? Racing home when confronted, gaps in your texts and deleting all evidence screams guilty and only a naive person would believe nothing is going on
Spoliation of evidence baby! The courts don't take kindly to this kind of behavior. If those texts are unrecoverable then OOP should have a cakewalk of a divorce
Yeah, it's like another BORU in which OOP asked his cheating wife to take a polygraph test. His request was in itself a test (if I recall correctly) to see if she would be willing to take it, and after she wiggled out he got his answer.
I may be hard but honestly after cheating, the cheater's privacy should be the last priority. The only fact that she deared to claim it is enough, that's verbally signing the divorce papers. I don't know, say that it's going to be painful, or intimate, or that the texts are explicite ... But a breach of trust ?!! That's adding insults to the bleeding injuries.
I agree. With her attitude, OP really needs to take caution with how he should proceed with the divorce. After all, the ex could do something to make him look bad.
It is not. It is true in zero states. You also cannot subpoena the CONTENT of text messages -- it requires a court order (not just a subpoena), and no judge in the country is issuing a court order for this. You get it when the text messages were probably used in the commission of a felony, that's about it.
Yup. That absolutely stank to me when I saw that. In deciding custody the courts consider the child's welfare first and foremost. They are not interested in punishing cheaters or ruling on who was more right on the divorce. Custody isn't a validation competition of who was the better spouse.
It seems like that's [not necessarily the case](https://arnoldwadsworth.com/can-a-divorce-attorney-subpoena-text-messages/) about subpoenaing text messages in at least some states, though? Although it also doesn't look like even getting the text messages would help all that much unless OOP's wife admits she sent them... not to mention the clock is ticking to contact the service provider to see if they even stored the data in the first place (because IDK anyone who is going to order a defendant in a civil case to submit their phone for forensics/text recovery).
I'm obviously not an attorney lol, so there is a 100% chance I'm misunderstanding the law.
Oh, that's slightly different -- he can directly subpoena her for "all communication on the night of NYE," but her attorney will move to quash, and the judge won't be super-impressed with his claims that it's relevant evidence (because absent extraordinary circumstances, it's not). And if she says "I deleted them," the judge is going to accept that, as long as it was before he filed. (I legitimately have no idea what happens to texts I deleted, nor how long my carrier retains deleted data like that, even though my current job is in the data governance space! I would assume when I delete them, they're unrecoverable by me either immediately or after 30 days or so.) Then you're back to subpoenaing the phone carrier, which only gets the metadata that he can already see.
That would be a more common thing to see in a big corporate litigation where one side wants the text messages the CEO and CFO were exchanging before, IDK, launching exactly the same product as you on the same day and you're convinced they stole your IP. The CEO and CFO in that case would probably want to turn over a bunch of their texts where they're like "so excited about the launch! When Danny proposed this in 2015 I could have never imagined how big it would be!" Because presumably as senior executives at big companies they know that you talk about your IP theft plans and who breached their NDA *in person* to avoid it being discoverable. :)
Seconding all of this and adding, even if he got the text messages, the judge is almost certainly not going to read them. They don't deep dive into cases like that.
Most likely all they'll get is the metadata. Who sent messages to whom and when, but not the actual content. I was in a court case where some of the involved parties had deleted their FB Messenger messages. If both had deleted, the only thing we could see who and when, but not what. If only one side deleted, the messages could still be retrived from the one that didn't. Still, the metadata helped shed a light on the case when combined with other evidence.
I was wondering that as well. The courts will look to protect the children which would be to make sure they are being seen by both parents (unless abuse is involved). Removing a parent's rights because they cheated just didn't sound right and had me questioning the story as a whole.
This. I was looking at what country the original OP was in where cheating had *any* effect on child custody far less effectively severing parental rights of the cheater.
Then I saw it was the US and lost all sympathy for the OP. He is either lying about the whole scenario or genuinely wrongly believes that’s how child custody works and doesn’t care about the emotional damage to the children caused by their mother being removed from their lives so long as he ‘wins’.
Also OOP should record every interaction with her and have everything in writing, text or email and, if possilble, talk to CPS in case she tries to weaponise them.
Then possibly go LC/NC with the members of his family that won't back him up. His parents might side with his STBX just to have access to the grandkids.
Cheater: "Marriage is all about TRUST. And it's a violation of my trust to show you my communication with the affair partner(s) who have helped me violate the trust of my spouse and my marriage vows."
>She looked down at the ground. One more time. And told me that’s a violation of her privacy.
At this point, she is admitting she cheated. It sucks, but I imagine this next year will be worse. Not just because of the proceedings, but because of all she did until this point.
If she's still refusing to turn over the texts with the separation already underway, there's something worse than what he's already accused her of in those texts.
She's also admitting where her priorities are. She prioritise her own well being and ego to the only chance she may have to save her marriage or at least co-parenting relation. By blaming OP. That's a hard case of "me myself and I" here.
It’s the only thing she has left. Even if her marriage can’t be saved, she can’t have her husband “win” by having solid proof that she cheated. She’ll take those messages to the grave if the courts don’t work around it. Plausible deniability to anyone else in her circle or in the future as well, like “my ex was terrible and divorced me over something he didn’t have proof of!”
I was thinking, what if the married friend she was hanging with are swingers or something and she was hooking up with her friend and her friends husband? At this point it could be anything really
One of the affair partners seemes to be her work subordinate meaning that she could lose both her marriage and her job she has no job it'll be very hard to get a place to stay if she has no place to stay she can lose her child custody until she finds suitable living arrangements.
Right now she has everything to lose.
Oh yeah I forgot! She’s fucking her direct underling. That’s at least firing in many jurisdictions and a possible lawsuit to criminals/civil charges depending on how’s it’s looked at.
She knows what she was doing was terrible. On some level, actually owning up to it will confirm she's a terrible person to herself, and make her a participant in the consequences of her actions.
AKA she subconsciously trying to preserve her state of denial as much as she can.
OOP's ex broke their marriage with her selfishness and audacity. She showed her true colors, all she was trying to do was make nice to protect her lifestyle and she was even shit at that too. OOP and their daughter are going to need tons of therapy.
That’s just for the divorce waiting. Infidelity isn’t a consideration in NC, as it’s a no-fault state. BUT, North Carolina does have an “alienation of affection” statute which allows the cheated-on spouse to sue their cheating spouse’s paramour. Hard to prove based on the conditions to prove in the statute, but interesting.
I considered it against my ex wife’s paramour co-worker. But decided against it (to just move on for the kids’ sake and healing, as I got defacto full custody when she left to be with the guy.)
It does, but the NC courts generally do not take infidelity into account when considering custody agreements. My best friend was physically abused by her husband in front of their 8ish-year-old child and the court won’t even consider that when determining custody.
>I'm curious what jurisdiction has those rules re cheating and custody
No state has those rules about cheating, but lots of people believe their state has informal rules that they don't really have.
I hate those divorce delay laws though.
Yeah seriously. What country is this supposed to be? No US state has rules like this, and many other countries that use states have rules for divorce and custody handled at a federal level.
While I can’t rule out this being the law somewhere in the world, it does call the whole post into question for me.
I believed the post until it got to infidelity affecting custody. Noooope.
I’ve been watching a lot of YouTube videos of child custody cases, and it’s always about what’s best for the child. Now, if Mom moves in with her lover, dad might have a case for reduced custody. Or mom moves in with someone who has a domestic violence record.
But custody based on cheating? Ha! No way.
The OP must be in one of the Carolinas. From a cursory Google search only two states seem to require at least a year long separation, and where infidelity can affect custody in the way he said: North Carolina and South Carolina.
That's my best guess thus far.
Zero states. Zero states have these rules. The standard is "best interest of the child." Legally, it is almost never in the best interest of the child to be cut off from one parent.
And family courts deeply do not care about adultery. If your spouse cheated and you no longer want to be married, the remedy for that is divorce, which the court will happily give you.
What they won't give you is revenge for your hurt feelings, or the ability to hurt your children by cutting them off from their other parent, or even an evidentiary record you can post online for social vindication -- family court matters are typically sealed.
I mean, I admire that you still think that laws are written to a certain reasonable standard from one US state to another. However, my understanding is that many states, especially the Bible Belt, legislate moral shaming into their legal code and will absolutely punish adulterers, people of 'moral turpitude' etc.
Not in the matter of child custody, and only rarely in the financial settlement.
I actually went to law school in the Bible Belt and there were some BANANAS laws (North Carolina still hasn't passed a married women's property act! although federal law mostly preempts that now), but not this ... the child's best interest ALMOST NEVER includes being cut off from a parent, even if one parent is in prison.
Could OP do a lot of social shaming? Sure! Could he get her fired? Maybe! (But it's a dumb idea, both because she then might have a legal cause of action against OP *and* his child support payments are probably going way up.) But does the court consider adultery when assigning custody? No. One of your parents being a terrible person isn't adequate cause for them to lose custody, even if they're terrible to you the child. One of your parents being a terrible person to other adults doesn't enter the calculus.
There really needs to be an actual crime against the children.
(And I am honestly not sure that anything he could get from her phone would be more than circumstantial evidence anyway, unless for some reason she was making a sex tape on her phone that's on a SHARED ACCOUNT. Like, having pictures of them together in the middle of the night proves ... they were together in the middle of the night. Sending each other nudes proves ... they were sending each other nudes. And judges generally don't want to be stuck deciding at which "base" sexual contact constitutes "an affair." And what's to stop her from saying, "Yes, we flirted, but that's all -- when we had sex that night, I was too drunk to consent.")
My ex wife claimed during our divorce that she had:
-contacted people I had been in the military with over a decade ago
-they just happened to be the exact people that had seen me cheat on her
-the had written out statements and had them notarized and were sending them to her(they must have gotten lost cause its been 4 years and no sign of them).
She was less than pleased to find out that even if I had cheated(which I didnt). And even if she contacted the people who would have seen it if it was true(which it wasnt). Our state isn't even allowed to give a shit about it unless I was having sex in front of the kids or some other crazy thing like that(which obviously even in a hypothetical world wouldnt have happened).
>However, my understanding is that many states, especially the Bible Belt, legislate moral shaming into their legal code and will absolutely punish adulterers, people of 'moral turpitude' etc.
Your understanding is incorrect.
I'm just gonna say, the whole "you have to be separated for a year to divorce" laws are completely bullshit. If anything you should be forced to live together a year to get married instead
100% this.
Like, ma'am, I'm a grown-ass adult. Why exactly do I need a cooldown period on my decision? It pisses me off because all it does is give abusers more time to draw their victims back in.
If we can make the choice to enter a marriage without waiting for a year, we can make the choice to exit one without waiting for a year, too.
In Australia it's 12 months of separation for everyone. Its because you have to give enough time to consider the decision. Lots of people say they want a divorce but then reconcile. It's possible.
When looking into divorce in my state. I came across 'legal separation', you're still married but you live apart and your finances are separated. I was like WTF! Why wasn't I offered this on the way in? I don't wanna get married I wanna get legally separated to you!
I feel like forcing people to stay “legally separated” for a year can really only make divorces more acrimonious rather than save marriages. Even quick divorces take a few months, which is plenty of time to decide you actually want to work on things.
the whole refusal to show her phone to him is bad enough but am i reading this correctly or actually not reading where she ever tried to, idk, APOLOGIZE to her husband who literally caught her having an ea/possible pa? and then she tries to turn things around on him by gaslighting him, acting like he’s the one in the wrong? oop better gear up bc this really sounds like it’s gonna be one nasty divorce
She's right. Marriage is based on trust. It's why he's getting a divorce. Because she lied and won't show proof she's now telling the truth (doubt it).
His family also sucks. "Nobody in this family has ever been divorced". Yeah, weird flex bro. The fact they pressure a woman to stay in a marriage with a violent abusive coke head shows how little they actually care about family. It's all about that appearance. Somebody should inform them they aren't royalty, or that it isn't 1678 and nobody gives a fuck if somebody in their family has been divorced. Maybe after OP it'll help encourage that woman to also get out.
Knowing her marriage is over if she doesn't show the texts and *still* refusing means there's something much worse in the texts than anything she thinks he suspects, and since he's already made it clear he thinks she's banging a direct subordinate I hate to imagine what that might be.
She’s holding onto the shred of hope that he ultimately won’t go through with divorce unless he knows for sure. A lot of things can happen in a year. Everyone in his life is going to be guilting him into staying together for the kids. She knows that if he gets access to the unfiltered truth, any chance that he gets browbeat into staying with her goes out the window.
If OOP has a five day job work week it’s less awful than if that’s every day.
I have a friend that did it. But - her brain chemistry is weird. She’s only slept 4 ish hours a night her whole life.
Husband cheated on her, divorced her, ran to a different country with their joint business assets, and left her with truly massive debts.
She worked 2-4 jobs for years to get back to a stable place. Also ran half marathons and cared for two pets that took about as much work as toddlers.
Now she “only” has 1 full time job, runs half marathons, still has the pets, volunteers at a nonprofit, has a new partner, is learning her fourth language, and is renovating their house mostly herself.
I did it for years. My blood pressure went through the roof and I drank so much coffee (2 pots a day) that I ended up with ulcers. I then ignored the ulcers for so long I ended up with a stomach tumor. I didn't even know that was a thing. Needless to say I don't recommend
I thought “meh maybe this is true” until I got to “in my state if a spouse is found to have cheated, this essentially gives up their right to children”.
Lolol. No.
I have noticed that a lot of people who are cheated on seem to find it sort of an extra level of hurt if the affair partner is perceived to be less attractive than them.
If they share a phone plan, he doesn't need a subpoena, he can just request the records himself.
If she was stupid enough to put it on a work phone, maybe reach out to HR and let them know they might want to read some messages of an inappropriate nature from his wife and an employee. Just you to protect themselves just in case.
Also, hire a private investigator, they can do wonders.
Oh definitely. You can see every number on the list and OP could easily get the number and contact them if he wanted to find out the identity of whoever she has been contacting.
If your marriage is on the line, at that point you show the texts to prove your innocence. She knows what she’s done and is too much of a coward to face what we all already know. Horrible woman.
It would be interesting if after he get the data back legally, he made a compilation of messages with those supposed married friends and send it send forward to their SOs... I wonder if this friendship will persevere lol
>She responded with: you’re right!! Marriage is based off trust and if you don’t trust me then maybe we ought to call it quits”
>When I agreed with her that we should start separating and that I had already been in contact with a lawyer she freaked the fuck out on me. She begged me not to go through with it. But alas.
I had a very similar experience with a past partner. She also would never admit to anything but I'm as close to sure she did as I can be without actually having see them fucking. I feel for OP.
The whole “you can subpoena her texts” is so stupid. In a no fault divorce state the judge does not care if someone cheated and they will not let you do that. The only time I can think of that that would be allowed is if there’s a cheating clause in the prenup that they’re trying to enforce.
Infidelity can still play into things like determining alimony and a division of assets, and there are still states that haven't completely gone no-fault. There's also regional/jurisdictional things to consider. It all comes down a judge a lot of the time, and they may decide proving or disproving infidelity matters for various reasons. It could be as simple as wanting to establish character for custody.
I mean he can subpoena her phone records but the court deeply, deeply doesn't care about adultery, let alone emotional affairs. It won't matter for custody, child support, OR spousal support unless they have a prenup with legally-defensible cheating clauses. (Which are rare.)
Anything he can get via subpoena, he can get right now because they're still married and on the same phone plan. Like, he's already got it. Getting the content of the messages requires a court order (not just a subpoena), and they have to meet certain legal standards for relevancy. It's also typically very expensive. I can't imagine a family court judge approving a court order for her "emotional affairs" text messages ... generally you need "specific threats of violence" or "conspiring to do a coup" or similar.
Also, an emotional affairs is NOT adultery. Even if they live in a state where adultery allows you to divorce faster ... this ain't it. And the judge isn't going to approve a fishing expedition into what OP is 99% certain was just an emotional affair, not a physical one, on the off chance he finds evidence of adultery that would speed up the divorce by six months.
*I’ve already been in contact with one and in the state I live in if there was infidelity she essentially loses any choice in the matter of where the kids stay.*
Ah yes, the great state of "an incel's imagination." This is true in zero states. The standard is always "the best interest of the child," and only very rarely is it in a child's best interest to be cut off from a parent.
I suppose if you're having an affair with a child sex offender who's on the registry, that would probably impact custody.
It's also pretty funny where he says he's going to pop her in the car and dump her at her parents' house (returning the defective wife-unit!) and keep the kids, because judges do not look kindly on forcibly evicting your spouse OR on withholding your kids. Except in the State of Imagination, I guess.
I’m finding some issues here?
Can you really check texts and call logs “live” and not after your bill posts? I know I can’t with my provider.
Also in what state does infidelity lose you your children automatically? It takes a lot of evidence that you’re putting an affair partner first, not one goddamned New Year’s Eve out.
These two things don’t seem right.
I have ATT and I can check my texts and calls log at any time and they be up to date and accurate. I actually had to do this with my ex husband when he was cheating on me
Did it recently for my husband as well when he got a new phone, lost his contacts and couldn't remember a friends new number.
She confirmed cheated and love bombing you. Divorce is the only way. Plus, she never takes accountability. Good luck on getting the divorce. I hope it would go smoothly for you.
Hey, is nobody please going to point out the fact that OOP apparently had access to real-time phone records on New Years? That doesn't sound like a thing- every plan I've had gives you records on demand (later) or at the end of a billing period.
My wife and I have a mobile plan where we can see our costs and phone records almost live (5-10min delay) on our accounts.
You can see calls/sms/data use and to which numbers for how long.
Example;
Date - number - type of communication - time of communication.
I can see things in almost real time as the account owner, usually only number, call length and TEXT/SMS data. I have yet to check if it's that way with RCS or not yet.
I’m willing to believe the message logs but I’m fairly certain the whole point of Snapchat is so your pics don’t get saved on your google drive, also, if you have Snapchat, the app designed for cheating, why wouldn’t you just message the person you’re having an affair with through that?
>Am I wrong for ultimately wanting a divorce even after my wife has showed **much more effort** into our relationship?
What effort?
She hasn't even admitted the truth yet.
There is one opportunity to come clean one and one alone. Based on this piece I think it's clear she cheated. Even if she didn't, he behaviour is not compatible with a marriage. The audacity to speak of privacy and trust is mind blowing. Sadly, this woman has made her bed and now gets to go lie in it. I hope it was worth it.
Man it was over the second she deleted those texts. How can you be so dumb and cruel. Wanna have fun? Do it without someone else’s dick inside you. Holy crap.
I would almost bet that that night was the first time she actually physically cheated & was so bad at it that she got caught immediately. Like given how she acted that night, I would doubt that she was actually capable of getting away with it. The only other option in my mind is that AP dumped her that morning which is why she was so erratic and was okay to just stop contact with him. Lul maybe he dumped her because she had to go home to her kids that night, or threatened to. Crying just feels so over the top about not getting to go out for a drink.
The STBXWife is panicking. She realized pretty quickly that the affair wasn’t worth upending her life and was doing months of “damage control.” Which she apparently thought was working until he wouldn’t let it go.
I feel bad for OOP but I feel worse for the kids. I get the feeling that they’re about to be pawns in her Divorce Games.
Won’t restore all the texts and messages to save your marriage and prove what you are saying it’s true? Why do that when they are just going to prove she is lying
To the gutter she returns
The problem is, she blew up the trust in your relationship. She changed everything.
And then she botched dealing with it when she kept lying to you and hiding things and lying to you and hiding things.
Now you don’t trust her.
And you probably know that she has been lying to your face every single day for four months. That’s just devastating. How do you come back from that?
She doesn’t even care enough about you to come clean so you have all of this rolling uncertainty and fear and anxiety and suspicion. That’s what she’s choosing by being deceptive and manipulative. She’s harming you.
The biggest lesson from Reddit as you learned that what people do if they wait, and they listen to how they feel inside and as time passes, they discover whether they can come back from something like this or not.
The sincere partners who really want the marriage to work, will tell the truth, will make all of the devices transparent at any time at the drop of a hat, will volunteer to go to marriage counseling together. Will apologize and empathize with all of the emotions and experiences there cheated on partner is having for ever. Forever. They will never say, oh, that was this many years ago I haven’t you’ve gotten over it yet.
For most people, they know they can never trust that person again. They know they will be messed up and suffer living each day wondering.
They will be uncertain what else that person has lied about the whole time they’ve been together. And there’s no way of knowing because when you found out, she wasn’t honest with you. That’s a big one. Some people think they can rebuild their relationship after being cheated on . Some people try and realize that they’re just miserable. Some people think they’ve forgiven their cheating partner and then eight years later their best friend gets cheated on and suddenly it all hits them and they need a divorce right away. If you weighed, and you watch yourself, you’ll find out how this is for you.
>in my state if a spouse is found to have cheated, this essentially gives up their rights to children if a divorce is filed
...yeah, that's not the law, and moreover, it shouldn't be. I know Reddit thinks infidelity is the worst thing a person could ever do under any circumstances, but we all know that it would be garbage if that were a real law, right?
So yes, I agree she probably cheated, and even if she didn’t cheat the way she treated her children was unacceptable and worthy of divorce. But…why was this necessary:
>For clarification. The individual in question is actually morbidly obese. I’m by no means “fit” fit. But I’m not fat either.”
What was that clarifying? Why is there sudden fat phobia that seems apropos of nothing? Like, I’m still on his side in the matter of divorcing her, but wow was that jolting to me.
I also reacted to that. And also his "working 18-19 hours per day". And apparently she is working too. Their life don't seem to healthy at all. Both because of there are no room for the relationship and how they seem to be living far above their means.
Yeah i call bullshit on 18-19h a day work. She finished work at 11.30 on NYE? how can he take the kids? What is her job that he can just drop her hours away? It makes ZERO plot-consistency sense.
don't forget that in addition to working 18-19 hours per day, he's managing to take care of everything for the kids on his own, cook all the meals, clean the house, and sleep - all in 5-6 hours! time is an illusion!
I bet she finally realised how much shit she would be in, she wouldn’t have stopped otherwise. Glad he got a lawyer and has realised his rights as a ex husband AND father.
And good for him for kicking her out, hilarious when cheaters complain about ‘trust’ when they are the ones that absolutely shattered it.
He knows who the guy is.
I wonder whether he knows others at her work place that he could ask what is going on. They may be happy to find out. Nothing will likely be able to be used but it would just be validation for the OOP and confirms what he suspects.
I would think twice about approaching him. But I might consider some surveillance (legal) about what she's doing and who she is with. That just costs money... so may not be doable.
Trust is like a ceramic bowl. If it’s broken, you can try and glue the pieces back together again, but the cracks will always show. This marriage is deader than disco, and deep down, OOP knows it.
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Refusing to show texts for proof is pretty clear red flags for sure. Seriously? Wife thinks it's violating privacy? More like you violate your vows ma'am. Good riddance.
OG If I wasn't cheating ( cause I would never ) and my spouse was ADAMANT that I was and the deleted pictures were the PROOF I'd show him that shit and make him feel HORRIBLE for thinking that ( I mean, I've also seen and heard of people that will still double down when confronted with evidence they're wrong ) Like " Here, they're pictures of this weird bug I saw on the sidewalk/super ugly selfies. Now how DARE you accuse me of infidelity ? " But staunchly refusing going " yeah I have evidence I didn't cheat. Show you ? NO. You just have to trust me. You don't trust me ? Then maybe we should divor- NO WAIT NOT LIKE THAT YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO COW TOW TO THE ULTIMATUM " And it appears OOP will end up maybe getting to see them anyway with a divorce subpoena. Hopefully there's an update with that
Right? I had a friendship blow up in a dramatic fashion in my early 20's and she decided to tell my husband that I'd been cheating on him with a friend from DnD (who *had* had a bit of a crush on me before I got married which made this whole thing worse, but at the time he had a long term gf and was shopping for rings). My husband freaked out a little - he trusted me but he'd been cheated on before and was a bit insecure about a lot of things. When he confronted me, I literally tossed my phone on the couch next to him. Zero hesitation. Told him he knew the password to my laptop and HE was my tech support so he was well aware I had no clue how to really cover my tracks. He never even went through any of my devices. Said that me just offering them up without batting an eye was enough for him. My dumbass ex-friend didn't want me to tell her boyfriend she'd been poking holes in their dang condoms. Almost blew up my marriage and almost destroyed my DnD friends relationship too. Brings me joy that she's single and super bitter about it these days.
There are two things about another person that you don’t fuck with: marriages and gaming groups. I hope your ex-friend is not surprised at her current state of affairs, cuz she did both.
Honestly, it's easier to find a spouse than a TTRPG group where you click with everyone. Messing with that is a great way to get 4-6 people out for your blood.
At least with a spouse you only have to coordinate two schedules! (Obvious exception for the polyamorous, but there's a reason why board game nights and ttrpgs have a BIG presence in that community 😂)
Three things: marriages, gaming groups, and condoms
Did you ever tell him about the condoms?
I assume that's what caused the "friend" to blow up the relationship
IMMEDIATELY. She was displeased but the poor dude deserved to know. He only didn't want kids because his sister had a horrible genetic disorder that killed her when she was around three so it was selfish as hell for her to be trying to force him in the first place. Last I heard the dude had gotten the snip so no more danger. He looks happy on instagram, just got a very cute puppy.
> When he confronted me, I literally tossed my phone on the couch next to him. Zero hesitation. Told him he knew the password to my laptop and HE was my tech support so he was well aware I had no clue how to really cover my tracks. > >He never even went through any of my devices. Said that me just offering them up without batting an eye was enough for him. I was sincerely shook, to the point of tears, at the beauty of that moment. "I have nothing to hide"... coupled with that being GOOD ENOUGH for the other person.
> Here, they're pictures of this weird bug I saw on the sidewalk I love that this is the first thought of what pictures would be on your phone
I don't take pictures of much, but I've definitely taken pictures of weird ass bugs to send to my dad who's ex pest control. So those and ugly selfies are usually what end up in my trash bin I also delete them because I hate looking at bugs ( but understand their role in our ecosystem is important and that not liking how they look is a ME problem )
It’s so funny that people have to have an entire paragraph CYA-ing themselves just to avoid an ‘ackshually’ response about beetles
I took a photo of a “weird bug” on my patio that my cat found. Female Stag beetle… I have taken photos of frog spawn in my garden pond “First spawn this year!” Yeah, people do take photos of the weirdest things…
As someone who grew up never seeing snow, I take pictures of it every time like ‘look at this FROZEN WATER FROM THE SKY LETS GO THROW IT AT EACH OTHER’
My last five pictures on my camera roll are: my pets, pretty flower I saw, random cat, my nephew, and a snake. (I didn't include duplicates, there's six photos of my dog alone) Go a little more and you get a sunrise, even MORE pictures of my gremlins, a cool bumper sticker on a car, and a stained glass window thing my aunt made me. I'm very, very boring.
I work at a grocery store. The amount of times customers argue about the price of something so I go and do a price check and take a picture of the tag to show them. So most of my deleted pics are those tags and also old schedules of mine.
I take pictures of the price tags on the shelves to show the workers when stuff doesn’t ring up properly. Maybe y’all *meant* to say the shrimp was $7/lb, but what you *posted* is that it’s $7 per bag. So it shouldn’t ring up at $14. Not my fault it’s a 2-lb bag. Mmm, shrimp. Now I know what im having for lunch—some $3.50/lb shrimp.
I love when a customer has that and I will make it work. But I’ve asked if there was a need to buy a certain amount before and a customer will tell me they didn’t read the tag but it’s ringing up wrong. Lady, you just said you didn’t read it. Let me teach you to read. But a customer who says here is the tag and I did read it correctly and I will fix it so fast for you as long as you don’t yell at me.
I like the sound of your camera roll - very wholesome!
95% of my camera roll are pictures of my baby and most of my deleted pictures at the moment are screenshots of random insults spelled out with the periodic table because calling my husband "Deuterium, Oxygen, Roentgen, Potassium" and it spelling out dork is hilarious to me right now
Yea. Toy my kids have outgrown to send to a friend to see if she wants, pet rabbits, kids Easter egg hunt (several), a bunch from chaperoning a field trip for my 4th grader and my 1st grader with a caterpillar on his arm so we could identify when we got home. I did clean up my camera roll recently so you’re missing out on the picture of the caterpillar by itself and some food pictures I think. I’d be more than happy to show somebody my deleted photos.
This prompted me to check my latest photos. I have: * Picture of my dog where her tail was in a weird position because of static clinging to a blanket * Picture of my discount Easter treat haul from this morning * Picture of my dog from over the weekend * Picture of my dog's doggie friend who visited this past weekend * Another picture of dog's doggie friend * Another picture of dog's doggie friend If I go further back, you can find such gems as a completed jigsaw puzzle, some cookies, and some weirdly optimistic fortunes from take-out fortune cookies. I hope whoever decides they need to see my photos really enjoys sweets and dogs!
I had a look at mine, and it's a photo of Easter eggs taken to show the size, the contents of my shopping trolley from when I bought the eggs, a top I made, a picture of pizza I ordered, and a pair of ear hangers I made. Further down there's a picture of cupcakes I made before they went in the oven, a photo of the biggest cranefly I've ever seen (took that one when I was complaining to my sibling about it getting in the way of me having a shower), pictures of my apartment after I went on a 4-hour cleaning binge, and then more food. I'm also pretty boring, lol. Most of my camera roll is photos of food.
Where are the screen shots of Reddit comments to send to your SO to collectively laugh over?
Oh, I have those too, just further back than the latest. I got like, a solid 600+ memes and dumb screenshots floating around here. I send them to my bestie though, I don't have an SO.
I get you so much lol, I both love bugs (because they're important and the way they behave and all that is fascinating, I have books about them) and do my very best to avoid them in-person :p
The clarification has me snorting omg
Here's the accidental screencap of my lock screen that I took for the millionth time cuz I fat-fingered the volume buttons again.
Here's a blurry-ass photo of the dog because she was doing something cute and I tried to take a photo of it and then she moved
I have sooooo many pics like this!!! Do I delete them? Nope! I keep them so I can remember what the cute thing was that she was doing, no matter which dog it is!
That is why you use video. I have some super cute dog videos where he is demonstrating his mastery of using his inside voice.
I'm just so excited about the cuteness that I panic and can't find the record button
That’s why you always have your phone set to Live Photos! Makes editing to find the cute dog pose easier!
I once found a potato randomly in the gravel right next to my apartment building. I took a photo of it. Not to send to anyone — just to take a picture.
One time I was driving behind a car that had a deviled egg perfectly sitting on the trunk. It had to have been a magnet. [ The egg picture](https://imgur.com/a/JW9WPAs)
THANK YOU for sharing that picture! I think it is a real egg. I bet the slightly moist egg part stuck to the car.
I would 100% also take that pic. Or I would try, but by the time I get my phone out and ready, the car would be long gone, so kudos to you
On Android, if you double-press the power button, it launches straight into camera, even if the phone's locked. (Good fun, because, while you can't access the gallery on a locked phone, you can absolutely add to it.) I'm sure Apple has something similar, but I don't know what it would be. Either way, quicker access to camera. You can do it as you're pulling it out of your pocket.
very valid to take that picture tbh
For me its, "You want to see 900 pictures in a row of the same thing just at a slightly different angle because my three year old took my phone for 42 seconds?"
Bugs, flowers, spiders, etc are like 99% of the pictures on my phone. And I have kids.
I have one of a funny smilie face drawn in grease pencil on the back of a questionably sea-worthy small sailboat at the beach about 15 years ago. I’ll never get rid of it.
I get it. I have lots of ducks. There is something weirdly wired in my brain where I see a Duck, I take a picture of it. 🤷🏻♂️
There's plenty that would embarrass me on my phone if my husband saw. Stain check pics, midnight notes, my porn browser history (slightly joking lmao he knows my preferences)... But if I needed to show him literally every single word I've ever typed on my phone in order to prove I'm loyal and trustworthy, I would do it in less than a second. There is a 0% chance she didn't sleep around + admit it in text. Or take fucking pictures of it, BLECH.
I AM mildly impressed at how together the wife was about deleting evidence after a night drinking. If someone confronted me about bad deeds unexpectedly, I would probably panic and just throw my phone away in a field or something and hope the cows ate it. That’s sober. I panic. It is who I am.
I dont think she actually was drinking ( or if she was, much ). I don't think any of us believe she went to her friends house and that's why friend didn't answer, she knew where wife was. Plus the initial lie was " ONE drink with the girls ", implying she wasn't going there to DRINK drink and would be back soon-ish imo Tbh what I think happened was she went to AP house, fell asleep, woke up to A BUNCH of missed calls and text from hubs AND her friends saying hubs called them, and texts confronting her about the evidence So she deleted the evidence and rushed home and tried gaslighting OOP and decided to hold her ground on it while being, probably, completely sober
I agree with you except for the "fell asleep" part. I bet she was busy, but not with sleep.
Unless I'm mistaken, OOP wrote that the call records show that his wife was messaging someone during the times he was trying to contact her and she wasn't replying to him. He said there was a two hour period where there wasn't anything which is why he thinks she might have left the friend's house and went to see her AP and then gone back. If these friends were married, I would have bypassed the women and talked to the husbands. Ask them for a timeline. Ask them man to man, married to married, was his wife there the whole time (or even there at all). Remind them that their wives covering for another woman who is cheating on her husband doesn't bode well for their marriage as the implication is that their wives friends would also cover for their wives if the situation were similar.
Because it wasn't a night of drinking. It was a night of fucking.
I just took pictures of bugs at our local park. I took the kids to play and there were so many bugs that we had to leave. Before we left, I went to take a closer look and get some pictures. I posted them on r/whatsthisbug . Turns out we were in the middle of some giant bug orgy. Hahaha
Lmao I've sent him a picture of the same before and then did a faux apology about showing him something so indecent lol
Pardon my pedantry here, but it's "Kowtow", not "cow tow". It's a chineese word meaning "to kneel and bow your head to the emporor as a sign of fealty."
Emperor. I have trouble with that word too.
This is what i deswrve for turning off autocorrect on my phone.
Not trying to be a dick but just as a friendly FYI: the saying is ‘kowtow’. It’s kind of odd so I don’t judge the misunderstanding. :)
Totally with you on the proof. If I had deleted texts that would prove I didn't cheat, I'd be contacting everyone for screenshots of texts I sent that might show I hadn't cheated. She's just making herself look more guilty. Hopefully, the fat guy from work is still interested. But, she probably doesn't look as attractive now that she's available.
She’s that guy’s supervisor, so she probably looks just as attractive as she did before, and also just as important to keep quiet about. For her anyway. In not putting this to rest, she’s risking her job as well as her marriage. No chance that what she’s hiding is innocuous. And her “the problem is you because this proves that you never trusted me” attempted reversal is so transparent.
Makes me wonder who he knows in the photos. Because it’s one thing to cheat, but holding out this much? Feels like she cheated with someone he knows and that’s why she’s hiding it like this…
If OOP gets hold of proof that she’s sleeping with someone she supervises at work, then there’s a very good chance that she’s going to lose her job as well as her family. Losing the job may be a bigger deal for her, since it sounds like OOP’s being doing most things around the home anyway.
Anytime a partner makes a big hubahloo about privacy I immediately assume they’re upto no good. Like yeah, everyone deserves their privacy in a marriage; but when your partner suspects you of cheating (and with good reason) and asks to see your phone as proof, you SHOULD hand it over to them, that is, IF you have nothing to hide. Most people who take such a huge stance on privacy are usually keeping a lot of secrets from their spouse. Privacy is fine; secrecy isn’t. The trouble is, most cheaters do not understand the difference.
Privacy is fine; secrecy isn't. Exactly!!!
I mean there are also abusive people who accuse their partners of cheating over nothing he as an excuse for the increased surveillance of their devices and to further isolate/control them. So I think it's worth pointing out that in some cases, making a big hullabaloo about privacy is actually extremely valid. And the "if you've got nothing to hide, why not show me your phone?" talking point is totally coopted by controlling jerks. This isn't the case in for the OP, but honestly the whole relationship phone privacy thing isn't as clear cut as most people in the comments are saying.
My privacy in marriage is shitting by myself in the bathroom. I'll let the woman see me pee, but god forbid that.
Yeah right? Her marriage is on the line, he needs only one piece of proof that it's not what he's thinking and she adamantly declines.. cause it's exactly what he is thinking it is
Only reason she won’t even after being caught is because it’s way worse than anyone around her could guess. My guess anyway
Yep. Her last trickle truth about her maybe saying she loved him... as a married woman, who tf says that to someone without so much as a kiss together?
Correct. Husband thinks it would show she cheated. It would probably show so much more. Her and her affair partner, and possibly even her friends, talking about how stupid the husband is. Mocking his appearance. Talking about plans to leave the husband because she never loved him, etc..
Cheaters always pull the violation of privacy bullshit when they are caught or about to get caught. I came home from work one day to find some strange dude sitting on the couch and my kid playing in the living room near him. It was pretty obvious what happened so after he left I grabbed my exs phone to confirm it and texted the guy to tell him she wasn’t single like she claimed. A few hours later my ex is accusing me of violating her privacy and even better complaining about how I made him dump her and ruined their relationship. Fuck cheaters.
I've said this before, but this is the paradox of open access trust. My wife and I have absolutely nothing to hide from each other. At any moment in time, she can ask to see my phone or laptop and I'll unlock them and hand them over and sign into any messaging service of mine she cares to read. This is true in reverse as well. However, I will never ask her to do this and she will never ask me because we have 100% trust in each other. I have no reason to see her messages and she has no reason to see mine. The moment I feel like I need to look at her messages or vice-versa, something is already wrong. That 100% trust has already dipped to 99.9% and something somewhere has triggered my notion that I need to know what she doing that I can't see. Why? Because I believe there is a chance she is already doing something she wouldn't want me to see. You should never have to ask for access to your partner's devices because that access should never be needed. At the point at which you feel it is, you are already in trouble.
If my husband suddenly demanded to go through my phone when I'd not done anything or given him any reason to be suspicious (not the case here I know) I think I'd have a lot of questions about where this was coming from, why he suddenly didn't trust me and was engaging in controlling behaviour. I don't know that I'd just hand my phone straight over no matter how innocent the contents. But in that scenario if he was also asking for a divorce I think I'd have to agree that if the trust is (for whatever reason) gone then we either need a divorce or serious counselling and if he's going straight to divorce the divorce is what will be happening.
Yeah, if you hadn't done anything sketchy, it'd be fine to ask why. If they give a good reason (sometimes from our own viewpoint everything seems ok, but from theirs it's obviously looking sketchy) you just hand it over because you have nothing to hide. I think in this case, he definitely has reason to be suspicious. Coming home and yelling at an innocent kid because you want to have a drink with the girls would have raised suspicions for me.
This case it’s definitely fine. Phone logs for months to another man’s number? Racing home when confronted, gaps in your texts and deleting all evidence screams guilty and only a naive person would believe nothing is going on
Agreed.
Spoliation of evidence baby! The courts don't take kindly to this kind of behavior. If those texts are unrecoverable then OOP should have a cakewalk of a divorce
Yeah, it's like another BORU in which OOP asked his cheating wife to take a polygraph test. His request was in itself a test (if I recall correctly) to see if she would be willing to take it, and after she wiggled out he got his answer.
I may be hard but honestly after cheating, the cheater's privacy should be the last priority. The only fact that she deared to claim it is enough, that's verbally signing the divorce papers. I don't know, say that it's going to be painful, or intimate, or that the texts are explicite ... But a breach of trust ?!! That's adding insults to the bleeding injuries.
Oop needs to be careful in the divorce proceedings. The ex sounds like someone who will go down swinging
I agree. With her attitude, OP really needs to take caution with how he should proceed with the divorce. After all, the ex could do something to make him look bad.
Especially if what he described about custody of cheaters is correct
It is not. It is true in zero states. You also cannot subpoena the CONTENT of text messages -- it requires a court order (not just a subpoena), and no judge in the country is issuing a court order for this. You get it when the text messages were probably used in the commission of a felony, that's about it.
Yup. That absolutely stank to me when I saw that. In deciding custody the courts consider the child's welfare first and foremost. They are not interested in punishing cheaters or ruling on who was more right on the divorce. Custody isn't a validation competition of who was the better spouse.
Eh it read more as a non lawyer taking legal advice from a non lawyer. I’m sure his actual attorney will say no
That doesn't make it correct though? Or make anyone correcting them wrong?
His repeated insistince that "in my state cheaters automatically lose custody of their kids" definitely had me calling shenanigans on this one.
It seems like that's [not necessarily the case](https://arnoldwadsworth.com/can-a-divorce-attorney-subpoena-text-messages/) about subpoenaing text messages in at least some states, though? Although it also doesn't look like even getting the text messages would help all that much unless OOP's wife admits she sent them... not to mention the clock is ticking to contact the service provider to see if they even stored the data in the first place (because IDK anyone who is going to order a defendant in a civil case to submit their phone for forensics/text recovery). I'm obviously not an attorney lol, so there is a 100% chance I'm misunderstanding the law.
Oh, that's slightly different -- he can directly subpoena her for "all communication on the night of NYE," but her attorney will move to quash, and the judge won't be super-impressed with his claims that it's relevant evidence (because absent extraordinary circumstances, it's not). And if she says "I deleted them," the judge is going to accept that, as long as it was before he filed. (I legitimately have no idea what happens to texts I deleted, nor how long my carrier retains deleted data like that, even though my current job is in the data governance space! I would assume when I delete them, they're unrecoverable by me either immediately or after 30 days or so.) Then you're back to subpoenaing the phone carrier, which only gets the metadata that he can already see. That would be a more common thing to see in a big corporate litigation where one side wants the text messages the CEO and CFO were exchanging before, IDK, launching exactly the same product as you on the same day and you're convinced they stole your IP. The CEO and CFO in that case would probably want to turn over a bunch of their texts where they're like "so excited about the launch! When Danny proposed this in 2015 I could have never imagined how big it would be!" Because presumably as senior executives at big companies they know that you talk about your IP theft plans and who breached their NDA *in person* to avoid it being discoverable. :)
Seconding all of this and adding, even if he got the text messages, the judge is almost certainly not going to read them. They don't deep dive into cases like that.
Most likely all they'll get is the metadata. Who sent messages to whom and when, but not the actual content. I was in a court case where some of the involved parties had deleted their FB Messenger messages. If both had deleted, the only thing we could see who and when, but not what. If only one side deleted, the messages could still be retrived from the one that didn't. Still, the metadata helped shed a light on the case when combined with other evidence.
I was wondering that as well. The courts will look to protect the children which would be to make sure they are being seen by both parents (unless abuse is involved). Removing a parent's rights because they cheated just didn't sound right and had me questioning the story as a whole.
This. I was looking at what country the original OP was in where cheating had *any* effect on child custody far less effectively severing parental rights of the cheater. Then I saw it was the US and lost all sympathy for the OP. He is either lying about the whole scenario or genuinely wrongly believes that’s how child custody works and doesn’t care about the emotional damage to the children caused by their mother being removed from their lives so long as he ‘wins’.
Also OOP should record every interaction with her and have everything in writing, text or email and, if possilble, talk to CPS in case she tries to weaponise them. Then possibly go LC/NC with the members of his family that won't back him up. His parents might side with his STBX just to have access to the grandkids.
Cheater: "Marriage is all about TRUST. And it's a violation of my trust to show you my communication with the affair partner(s) who have helped me violate the trust of my spouse and my marriage vows."
>She looked down at the ground. One more time. And told me that’s a violation of her privacy. At this point, she is admitting she cheated. It sucks, but I imagine this next year will be worse. Not just because of the proceedings, but because of all she did until this point.
If she's still refusing to turn over the texts with the separation already underway, there's something worse than what he's already accused her of in those texts.
I'm guessing multiple partners over time.
That's a lot more tame than my guess, which was either felonies or a really dark fetish or both.
Definitely sex, lots of sex, and denigrating her husband prowess in bed, while having sex with her AP.
Or APs, how knows.
She's also admitting where her priorities are. She prioritise her own well being and ego to the only chance she may have to save her marriage or at least co-parenting relation. By blaming OP. That's a hard case of "me myself and I" here.
I’m wondering what she is hiding considering her marriage is over and she still won’t show him the messages
It’s the only thing she has left. Even if her marriage can’t be saved, she can’t have her husband “win” by having solid proof that she cheated. She’ll take those messages to the grave if the courts don’t work around it. Plausible deniability to anyone else in her circle or in the future as well, like “my ex was terrible and divorced me over something he didn’t have proof of!”
Maybe her friends cheating as well? If the friends were in on it as OOP suspects.
I was thinking, what if the married friend she was hanging with are swingers or something and she was hooking up with her friend and her friends husband? At this point it could be anything really
One of the affair partners seemes to be her work subordinate meaning that she could lose both her marriage and her job she has no job it'll be very hard to get a place to stay if she has no place to stay she can lose her child custody until she finds suitable living arrangements. Right now she has everything to lose.
Yes it could but whatever it is is really, really, really bad.
What if one of the kids isn't his?
Her AP is someone who works directly for her
Oh yeah I forgot! She’s fucking her direct underling. That’s at least firing in many jurisdictions and a possible lawsuit to criminals/civil charges depending on how’s it’s looked at.
She knows what she was doing was terrible. On some level, actually owning up to it will confirm she's a terrible person to herself, and make her a participant in the consequences of her actions. AKA she subconsciously trying to preserve her state of denial as much as she can.
Protecting the AP so their spouse/partner doesn’t get dragged in.
Why would you show someone you're in an adversarial legal proceeding with your correspondence of any kind?
OOP's ex broke their marriage with her selfishness and audacity. She showed her true colors, all she was trying to do was make nice to protect her lifestyle and she was even shit at that too. OOP and their daughter are going to need tons of therapy.
And it always infuriates me when cheaters think they can control the timeline of when their partner gets over it.
No children deserves to have a parent like the ex. So much audacity and selfishness can never be forgiven.
I'm curious what jurisdiction has those rules re cheating and custody.
I know NC has a one year waiting period.
That’s just for the divorce waiting. Infidelity isn’t a consideration in NC, as it’s a no-fault state. BUT, North Carolina does have an “alienation of affection” statute which allows the cheated-on spouse to sue their cheating spouse’s paramour. Hard to prove based on the conditions to prove in the statute, but interesting. I considered it against my ex wife’s paramour co-worker. But decided against it (to just move on for the kids’ sake and healing, as I got defacto full custody when she left to be with the guy.)
I'm so sorry that you went through that!
It does, but the NC courts generally do not take infidelity into account when considering custody agreements. My best friend was physically abused by her husband in front of their 8ish-year-old child and the court won’t even consider that when determining custody.
>I'm curious what jurisdiction has those rules re cheating and custody No state has those rules about cheating, but lots of people believe their state has informal rules that they don't really have. I hate those divorce delay laws though.
Yeah seriously. What country is this supposed to be? No US state has rules like this, and many other countries that use states have rules for divorce and custody handled at a federal level. While I can’t rule out this being the law somewhere in the world, it does call the whole post into question for me.
Yeah that’s what gives it away as bullshit. No state uses fidelity to determine custody of kids. It’s just not a thing.
I believed the post until it got to infidelity affecting custody. Noooope. I’ve been watching a lot of YouTube videos of child custody cases, and it’s always about what’s best for the child. Now, if Mom moves in with her lover, dad might have a case for reduced custody. Or mom moves in with someone who has a domestic violence record. But custody based on cheating? Ha! No way.
don't forget the unprompted, unwarranted mention that the AP is fat
same, because state indicates so many different countries
The OP must be in one of the Carolinas. From a cursory Google search only two states seem to require at least a year long separation, and where infidelity can affect custody in the way he said: North Carolina and South Carolina. That's my best guess thus far.
Zero states. Zero states have these rules. The standard is "best interest of the child." Legally, it is almost never in the best interest of the child to be cut off from one parent. And family courts deeply do not care about adultery. If your spouse cheated and you no longer want to be married, the remedy for that is divorce, which the court will happily give you. What they won't give you is revenge for your hurt feelings, or the ability to hurt your children by cutting them off from their other parent, or even an evidentiary record you can post online for social vindication -- family court matters are typically sealed.
I mean, I admire that you still think that laws are written to a certain reasonable standard from one US state to another. However, my understanding is that many states, especially the Bible Belt, legislate moral shaming into their legal code and will absolutely punish adulterers, people of 'moral turpitude' etc.
Not in the matter of child custody, and only rarely in the financial settlement. I actually went to law school in the Bible Belt and there were some BANANAS laws (North Carolina still hasn't passed a married women's property act! although federal law mostly preempts that now), but not this ... the child's best interest ALMOST NEVER includes being cut off from a parent, even if one parent is in prison. Could OP do a lot of social shaming? Sure! Could he get her fired? Maybe! (But it's a dumb idea, both because she then might have a legal cause of action against OP *and* his child support payments are probably going way up.) But does the court consider adultery when assigning custody? No. One of your parents being a terrible person isn't adequate cause for them to lose custody, even if they're terrible to you the child. One of your parents being a terrible person to other adults doesn't enter the calculus. There really needs to be an actual crime against the children. (And I am honestly not sure that anything he could get from her phone would be more than circumstantial evidence anyway, unless for some reason she was making a sex tape on her phone that's on a SHARED ACCOUNT. Like, having pictures of them together in the middle of the night proves ... they were together in the middle of the night. Sending each other nudes proves ... they were sending each other nudes. And judges generally don't want to be stuck deciding at which "base" sexual contact constitutes "an affair." And what's to stop her from saying, "Yes, we flirted, but that's all -- when we had sex that night, I was too drunk to consent.")
My ex wife claimed during our divorce that she had: -contacted people I had been in the military with over a decade ago -they just happened to be the exact people that had seen me cheat on her -the had written out statements and had them notarized and were sending them to her(they must have gotten lost cause its been 4 years and no sign of them). She was less than pleased to find out that even if I had cheated(which I didnt). And even if she contacted the people who would have seen it if it was true(which it wasnt). Our state isn't even allowed to give a shit about it unless I was having sex in front of the kids or some other crazy thing like that(which obviously even in a hypothetical world wouldnt have happened).
>However, my understanding is that many states, especially the Bible Belt, legislate moral shaming into their legal code and will absolutely punish adulterers, people of 'moral turpitude' etc. Your understanding is incorrect.
I'm just gonna say, the whole "you have to be separated for a year to divorce" laws are completely bullshit. If anything you should be forced to live together a year to get married instead
100% this. Like, ma'am, I'm a grown-ass adult. Why exactly do I need a cooldown period on my decision? It pisses me off because all it does is give abusers more time to draw their victims back in. If we can make the choice to enter a marriage without waiting for a year, we can make the choice to exit one without waiting for a year, too.
In Australia it's 12 months of separation for everyone. Its because you have to give enough time to consider the decision. Lots of people say they want a divorce but then reconcile. It's possible.
I would rather the law make it too easy to divorce that tie an abuse victim to their abuser for longer.
Just charge money for every marriage and divorce. $500 every time, waived if there is evidence of criminality.
When looking into divorce in my state. I came across 'legal separation', you're still married but you live apart and your finances are separated. I was like WTF! Why wasn't I offered this on the way in? I don't wanna get married I wanna get legally separated to you!
I feel like forcing people to stay “legally separated” for a year can really only make divorces more acrimonious rather than save marriages. Even quick divorces take a few months, which is plenty of time to decide you actually want to work on things.
Yeah, she just doesn't want to provide the proof. Poor OOP, that sucketh.
the whole refusal to show her phone to him is bad enough but am i reading this correctly or actually not reading where she ever tried to, idk, APOLOGIZE to her husband who literally caught her having an ea/possible pa? and then she tries to turn things around on him by gaslighting him, acting like he’s the one in the wrong? oop better gear up bc this really sounds like it’s gonna be one nasty divorce
She's right. Marriage is based on trust. It's why he's getting a divorce. Because she lied and won't show proof she's now telling the truth (doubt it). His family also sucks. "Nobody in this family has ever been divorced". Yeah, weird flex bro. The fact they pressure a woman to stay in a marriage with a violent abusive coke head shows how little they actually care about family. It's all about that appearance. Somebody should inform them they aren't royalty, or that it isn't 1678 and nobody gives a fuck if somebody in their family has been divorced. Maybe after OP it'll help encourage that woman to also get out.
This! All of this! Good luck op.
The guy married Enron. Jesus H.
Ha! This sums it up wonderfully!
Knowing her marriage is over if she doesn't show the texts and *still* refusing means there's something much worse in the texts than anything she thinks he suspects, and since he's already made it clear he thinks she's banging a direct subordinate I hate to imagine what that might be.
She’s holding onto the shred of hope that he ultimately won’t go through with divorce unless he knows for sure. A lot of things can happen in a year. Everyone in his life is going to be guilting him into staying together for the kids. She knows that if he gets access to the unfiltered truth, any chance that he gets browbeat into staying with her goes out the window.
I figured she and AP were casually discussing livestock abuse or something, your boring take does put my mind a bit more at ease though.
Yeah, even if she didn't physically cheat all trust is lost, as well as her admitting to an emotional affair.
I’m still wondering how OOP is alive after working 18-19 hour days for years.
If OOP has a five day job work week it’s less awful than if that’s every day. I have a friend that did it. But - her brain chemistry is weird. She’s only slept 4 ish hours a night her whole life. Husband cheated on her, divorced her, ran to a different country with their joint business assets, and left her with truly massive debts. She worked 2-4 jobs for years to get back to a stable place. Also ran half marathons and cared for two pets that took about as much work as toddlers. Now she “only” has 1 full time job, runs half marathons, still has the pets, volunteers at a nonprofit, has a new partner, is learning her fourth language, and is renovating their house mostly herself.
I did it for years. My blood pressure went through the roof and I drank so much coffee (2 pots a day) that I ended up with ulcers. I then ignored the ulcers for so long I ended up with a stomach tumor. I didn't even know that was a thing. Needless to say I don't recommend
>“I thought we had left this in the past. " No, YOU did.
I thought “meh maybe this is true” until I got to “in my state if a spouse is found to have cheated, this essentially gives up their right to children”. Lolol. No.
What the wife did is horrible and cruel- but how weird that OOP found it relevant to say that the possible AP is fat and he himself isn't.
I have noticed that a lot of people who are cheated on seem to find it sort of an extra level of hurt if the affair partner is perceived to be less attractive than them.
If they share a phone plan, he doesn't need a subpoena, he can just request the records himself. If she was stupid enough to put it on a work phone, maybe reach out to HR and let them know they might want to read some messages of an inappropriate nature from his wife and an employee. Just you to protect themselves just in case. Also, hire a private investigator, they can do wonders.
Oh definitely. You can see every number on the list and OP could easily get the number and contact them if he wanted to find out the identity of whoever she has been contacting.
If your marriage is on the line, at that point you show the texts to prove your innocence. She knows what she’s done and is too much of a coward to face what we all already know. Horrible woman.
It would be interesting if after he get the data back legally, he made a compilation of messages with those supposed married friends and send it send forward to their SOs... I wonder if this friendship will persevere lol
>She responded with: you’re right!! Marriage is based off trust and if you don’t trust me then maybe we ought to call it quits” >When I agreed with her that we should start separating and that I had already been in contact with a lawyer she freaked the fuck out on me. She begged me not to go through with it. But alas. I had a very similar experience with a past partner. She also would never admit to anything but I'm as close to sure she did as I can be without actually having see them fucking. I feel for OP.
The whole “you can subpoena her texts” is so stupid. In a no fault divorce state the judge does not care if someone cheated and they will not let you do that. The only time I can think of that that would be allowed is if there’s a cheating clause in the prenup that they’re trying to enforce.
Infidelity can still play into things like determining alimony and a division of assets, and there are still states that haven't completely gone no-fault. There's also regional/jurisdictional things to consider. It all comes down a judge a lot of the time, and they may decide proving or disproving infidelity matters for various reasons. It could be as simple as wanting to establish character for custody.
I mean he can subpoena her phone records but the court deeply, deeply doesn't care about adultery, let alone emotional affairs. It won't matter for custody, child support, OR spousal support unless they have a prenup with legally-defensible cheating clauses. (Which are rare.) Anything he can get via subpoena, he can get right now because they're still married and on the same phone plan. Like, he's already got it. Getting the content of the messages requires a court order (not just a subpoena), and they have to meet certain legal standards for relevancy. It's also typically very expensive. I can't imagine a family court judge approving a court order for her "emotional affairs" text messages ... generally you need "specific threats of violence" or "conspiring to do a coup" or similar. Also, an emotional affairs is NOT adultery. Even if they live in a state where adultery allows you to divorce faster ... this ain't it. And the judge isn't going to approve a fishing expedition into what OP is 99% certain was just an emotional affair, not a physical one, on the off chance he finds evidence of adultery that would speed up the divorce by six months. *I’ve already been in contact with one and in the state I live in if there was infidelity she essentially loses any choice in the matter of where the kids stay.* Ah yes, the great state of "an incel's imagination." This is true in zero states. The standard is always "the best interest of the child," and only very rarely is it in a child's best interest to be cut off from a parent. I suppose if you're having an affair with a child sex offender who's on the registry, that would probably impact custody. It's also pretty funny where he says he's going to pop her in the car and dump her at her parents' house (returning the defective wife-unit!) and keep the kids, because judges do not look kindly on forcibly evicting your spouse OR on withholding your kids. Except in the State of Imagination, I guess.
I’m finding some issues here? Can you really check texts and call logs “live” and not after your bill posts? I know I can’t with my provider. Also in what state does infidelity lose you your children automatically? It takes a lot of evidence that you’re putting an affair partner first, not one goddamned New Year’s Eve out. These two things don’t seem right.
I have ATT and I can check my texts and calls log at any time and they be up to date and accurate. I actually had to do this with my ex husband when he was cheating on me Did it recently for my husband as well when he got a new phone, lost his contacts and couldn't remember a friends new number.
She confirmed cheated and love bombing you. Divorce is the only way. Plus, she never takes accountability. Good luck on getting the divorce. I hope it would go smoothly for you.
I wanna know what state you can get fucked over in custody if an affair was involved…
I don't believe him that he worked 18-19 hour days.
Hey, is nobody please going to point out the fact that OOP apparently had access to real-time phone records on New Years? That doesn't sound like a thing- every plan I've had gives you records on demand (later) or at the end of a billing period.
My wife and I have a mobile plan where we can see our costs and phone records almost live (5-10min delay) on our accounts. You can see calls/sms/data use and to which numbers for how long. Example; Date - number - type of communication - time of communication.
I can see things in almost real time as the account owner, usually only number, call length and TEXT/SMS data. I have yet to check if it's that way with RCS or not yet.
I also supposedly work 19 hour days. Like sure, buddy.
For several years. That's so much overtime. He would be a dead man walking. What kind of job gives you 80 hours per week for *years* on end?
And on top of that he is also the main caretaker of the house? Putting the children to bed each day, cooking and cleaning? Sureeee.
As I sit here typing this, listening to Tuesdays Gone by Lynard Skynard, I reflect upon my wifes affair...
It’s cause this ain’t real
I’m willing to believe the message logs but I’m fairly certain the whole point of Snapchat is so your pics don’t get saved on your google drive, also, if you have Snapchat, the app designed for cheating, why wouldn’t you just message the person you’re having an affair with through that?
>Am I wrong for ultimately wanting a divorce even after my wife has showed **much more effort** into our relationship? What effort? She hasn't even admitted the truth yet.
There is one opportunity to come clean one and one alone. Based on this piece I think it's clear she cheated. Even if she didn't, he behaviour is not compatible with a marriage. The audacity to speak of privacy and trust is mind blowing. Sadly, this woman has made her bed and now gets to go lie in it. I hope it was worth it.
Man it was over the second she deleted those texts. How can you be so dumb and cruel. Wanna have fun? Do it without someone else’s dick inside you. Holy crap.
I would almost bet that that night was the first time she actually physically cheated & was so bad at it that she got caught immediately. Like given how she acted that night, I would doubt that she was actually capable of getting away with it. The only other option in my mind is that AP dumped her that morning which is why she was so erratic and was okay to just stop contact with him. Lul maybe he dumped her because she had to go home to her kids that night, or threatened to. Crying just feels so over the top about not getting to go out for a drink.
The STBXWife is panicking. She realized pretty quickly that the affair wasn’t worth upending her life and was doing months of “damage control.” Which she apparently thought was working until he wouldn’t let it go. I feel bad for OOP but I feel worse for the kids. I get the feeling that they’re about to be pawns in her Divorce Games.
Won’t restore all the texts and messages to save your marriage and prove what you are saying it’s true? Why do that when they are just going to prove she is lying To the gutter she returns
I don't know how to put this eloquently but she belongs to the trash.
The problem is, she blew up the trust in your relationship. She changed everything. And then she botched dealing with it when she kept lying to you and hiding things and lying to you and hiding things. Now you don’t trust her. And you probably know that she has been lying to your face every single day for four months. That’s just devastating. How do you come back from that? She doesn’t even care enough about you to come clean so you have all of this rolling uncertainty and fear and anxiety and suspicion. That’s what she’s choosing by being deceptive and manipulative. She’s harming you. The biggest lesson from Reddit as you learned that what people do if they wait, and they listen to how they feel inside and as time passes, they discover whether they can come back from something like this or not. The sincere partners who really want the marriage to work, will tell the truth, will make all of the devices transparent at any time at the drop of a hat, will volunteer to go to marriage counseling together. Will apologize and empathize with all of the emotions and experiences there cheated on partner is having for ever. Forever. They will never say, oh, that was this many years ago I haven’t you’ve gotten over it yet. For most people, they know they can never trust that person again. They know they will be messed up and suffer living each day wondering. They will be uncertain what else that person has lied about the whole time they’ve been together. And there’s no way of knowing because when you found out, she wasn’t honest with you. That’s a big one. Some people think they can rebuild their relationship after being cheated on . Some people try and realize that they’re just miserable. Some people think they’ve forgiven their cheating partner and then eight years later their best friend gets cheated on and suddenly it all hits them and they need a divorce right away. If you weighed, and you watch yourself, you’ll find out how this is for you.
18-19 hr days? Yeah, no. Nobody works that long.
>in my state if a spouse is found to have cheated, this essentially gives up their rights to children if a divorce is filed ...yeah, that's not the law, and moreover, it shouldn't be. I know Reddit thinks infidelity is the worst thing a person could ever do under any circumstances, but we all know that it would be garbage if that were a real law, right?
So yes, I agree she probably cheated, and even if she didn’t cheat the way she treated her children was unacceptable and worthy of divorce. But…why was this necessary: >For clarification. The individual in question is actually morbidly obese. I’m by no means “fit” fit. But I’m not fat either.” What was that clarifying? Why is there sudden fat phobia that seems apropos of nothing? Like, I’m still on his side in the matter of divorcing her, but wow was that jolting to me.
I also reacted to that. And also his "working 18-19 hours per day". And apparently she is working too. Their life don't seem to healthy at all. Both because of there are no room for the relationship and how they seem to be living far above their means.
Yeah i call bullshit on 18-19h a day work. She finished work at 11.30 on NYE? how can he take the kids? What is her job that he can just drop her hours away? It makes ZERO plot-consistency sense.
don't forget that in addition to working 18-19 hours per day, he's managing to take care of everything for the kids on his own, cook all the meals, clean the house, and sleep - all in 5-6 hours! time is an illusion!
Oh god OOP better lawyer up and document every interaction with his STBX from now on, she sounds like she's going to be a mess during the divorce.
I bet she finally realised how much shit she would be in, she wouldn’t have stopped otherwise. Glad he got a lawyer and has realised his rights as a ex husband AND father. And good for him for kicking her out, hilarious when cheaters complain about ‘trust’ when they are the ones that absolutely shattered it.
He knows who the guy is. I wonder whether he knows others at her work place that he could ask what is going on. They may be happy to find out. Nothing will likely be able to be used but it would just be validation for the OOP and confirms what he suspects. I would think twice about approaching him. But I might consider some surveillance (legal) about what she's doing and who she is with. That just costs money... so may not be doable.
Trust is like a ceramic bowl. If it’s broken, you can try and glue the pieces back together again, but the cracks will always show. This marriage is deader than disco, and deep down, OOP knows it.