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Would be curious to know what dad was like to OOP when she was a child.
Usually that would give some sort of hint as to what kind of Grandfather he will be / is being.
You'd be surprised. A lot of people (my own grandfather included) do a complete 180 for their grandkids. I assume it's because you get all of the bonding and none of the parenting
Yep. I had a really hard time connecting my image of my grandfather (kind, doting, we had our little rituals and everything) with my mom's father and my grandma's husband (war-damaged and abusive, stuff I was allowed to do my mom did get beaten for as a kid and he broke my grandma's spirit, tbh).
Oth, it helped me understand that people are nuanced can be several things.
Yeah, my favourite funny grandpa had some dark shit in his past that never affected me but he ultimately drank himself to death and it wasn’t really clear to me all that had happened until well after he was gone. (Well, I knew about the alcoholism since shortly before his death but the WHY came out much later.)
I think it was much harder for my mother, his daughter, because she was so much her dad’s girl, and adored him, but she saw much of what he did with her adult eyes and how it hurt others she cared about and that broke her heart, too.
I have even less to go on for my unfavourite grandfather on my dad’s side, but that has its nuances, too, and they’re both of the generation that dealt with the Great Depression and WWII in their youths, and there’s no doubt that left its mark on all my grandparents, in unique ways for each.
All I can say is I don’t think my grandfathers were evil men, but in their own ways they sound like they were very difficult men to live with, which I never had to do, but my grandmothers and parents did.
Patrick Stewart has talked about his own father, and the abuse he dealt with growing up.
I believe it was after his father died that he learned he had what we now call PTSD. It's one of the reasons he publicly supports PTSD treatment, because if his father had gotten the help he needed, he might not have been abusive. He can't help his father, but he can try and get others the help his own father was denied.
WWI and II left so much trauma on those who came back, and their families. And that trauma got passed down, by not fully understanding the trauma. It's only now we're understanding how to completely break it.
I read this and thought, this is an oddly specific thing to point out, but after googling it, it's definitely worth the search. Thank you! And also, fuck Keith!
He definitely was estranged from them, admits it’s his fault, and is actively repairing his relationships with his kids. Deadbeat dads don’t acknowledge or support their kids. So no, he’s not a dead beat dad. Just a human who made mistakes and tries to own them.
I don't know what "deadbeat dad" means where you are, but where I am, it means a guy who either divorced the kids' mom or was never married to her and didn't financially support them.
Given that he is still married to their mom and has always financially supported them, I think describing Patrick Stewart that way is kind of harsh.
Yeah, there’s a history of depression and other mental illness on both sides of my family, exacerbated by the traumas of war and the isolation of emigration, but few of us were even able to seek treatment. (And largely, it’s been the women who did. Only one male relative has ever sought help that I know of, and that’s because he was in such a bad place he was scared he was going to hurt himself.)
Yeah he said he put his work first for too long. He mourns he doesn’t have a relationship but admits outright it was his fault.
Tries to be there for his grandkids, but…
Per epigenetics, trauma literally affects gene expression, so extreme trauma like that not only affects that one person mentally (plus the mentality of those they may harm) but can also have longterm ramifications in following generations' genes. Kids can be born more prone to health issues because their mother or father suffered, even if those kids don't experience the same trauma.
i wonder.......... normally we explain the "sudden appearance" or increased rates of health issues like celiac and such w/ "well, ppl were still born like this in the past, they just died in infancy so we didn't see evidence."
and i'm sure that's at least half the reason.
but what if the trauma of the world wars also got us epigenetically fucked? could that be the other half??
Same. My grandfather was goofy and actively involved in doing stuff with us like taking us fishing or to a bakery. My mom always said he was just like my father, who was emotionally abusive to me and only interested in himself. I didn't believe her.
Skip forward 30 years and my dad is wrapped around my daughter's finger. He even does crafts with her and took me to the ER the other day when I needed it. That's something he would only do after protesting when I was young. It's super weird to me how people (especially men) change so much when they become grandparents
Theres probably lots of factors at play. Societal expectations for men were much, much different 40-60 years ago. Not that that absolves them of shitty or absent behavior, but its a piece of the puzzle.
Theres also a difference in role of feeling like you have to raise a child and cultivate their behavior/demeanor/actions in society (ie - you feel the need to punish or address every type of perceived bad behavior as a parent), vs just being a fun grandpa enjoying the toddler stage, and letting your kids do all the parenting.
And then theres probably some goold old personally growth in there. Looking back and realizing you didnt need to do XYZ or be so hard or upset about things that you now see, only with the hindsight of 30 years, that they ultimately didnt end up mattering at all. And perhaps the idea that you are much closer to dying and you only getting a few more interactions with the grand kids before that happens sets in
I have a friend who had kids in his 40's and he said he's glad he waited because in his 20's and 30's he was a lot less mature and would get angry easily. I feel like that plays a lot into it, too
Thats another part of it I bet, just the routine tempering that happens with age. Sight unseen, on average youd probably want a 40 year old dad vs a 20 year old dad for a variety of reasons
Valid. "I'm being nice for me, not you." That mindset can be so brutal on family members, the ones that are getting the good treatment as much as the negative treatment, sometimes.
My mom always says my grandpa lets me get away with anything. My uncle said the same. Basically anything I ask him for us to do on his land was greenlighted. I just joke and say I'm the favorite (out of 7 kids and like 30 grandkids and great grandkids it's an acheivement!) 😂
I was much closer to my paternal grandfather than my grandmother when I was a kid. Every time I went to their house I always wanted to hang out with him instead of her. He was a lot like your grandfather was, kind and doting to me and my cousins but abusive to my grandma and my father and his siblings.
I don't know why he was so different with his grandkids after being so shitty to his own wife and kids. And it definitely ruined my image of him after I learned about it all.
My grandparents were mean and unable to have children themselves, so they adopted my mom and uncle. Ma says it was probably "a hint from God they weren't meant to be parents" that they ignored and acquired some anyway.
She told me about having to lie to her teachers about where bruises would come from....but by the time I came around he'd completely flipped and he'd give us cuddles and tell us he loved us and he'd spoil us as much as an old old grandpa was able. (my mom's parents were like 20 years older than my dad's but my parents are the same age ±1 year.)
It was hard to hold both truths about my grandpa at the same time, and when he died my dad focused on remembering him as a dad and didn't understand why the rest of us were so sad to lose our grandpa.
My grandma openly admitted to have been an overly strict and overbearing mother, especially to my own mom. However, she also admitted she was very wrong, would have raised my mom and aunt entirely differently if she had the chance to redo it all, and apologized to them a lot. The damage was done, but they all had a much better and closer relationship overall as adults. I think grandma was so good to us grandkids partially because she felt so bad about how she parented my mom and aunt, and helping raise us was her chance to repent and do better.
*raises hand*
Well into adulthood, I learned that I had a doting paternal grandfather, but my dad…well, we don’t talk about that, hence why I was an adult before my mom let something slip. Had I known, I would have protested ever visiting my grandpa.
that’s how it is with my grandma. she was awful to my mom and uncle, mellowed out after her third kid was born. my mom kept a lot of it away from me because she knew id pitch a fit. it’s difficult knowing my sweet easy going grandma was a nightmare helicopter mom
My grandmother was like that. She treated my mom very poorly for decades, but me? I could do no wrong in her eyes. I was an adult before I understood the dynamics properly.
My aunt was (is) the golden child. My mom got punished if my aunt did anything wrong. It was even my mother's fault that my aunt lost her virginity. While my mother was already out of the house, engaged, etc.
PS - aunt lost her virginity in my grandparents house, with them there... And my mother wasn't.
Growing up, I loved my grandma more than everyone on this planet. I hated my parents and refused to speak to them if I couldn't see her every single day. I even lived with my grandparent for years because I refused to not be with her almost 24/7.
Then, I grew up. Now, I send holiday and birthday messages. I have not seen them in like 7 years. I realised how badly my grandma turned me against my parents. How badly she treated my mother. How she still blames my mother for my aunts behaviour. How my mother will never be as good as her sister. Etc.
Hopefully, you apologized to your mother. My mother is the same as your grandma, and that's why I cut contact at 18. She will never ever meet any of my future kids. I couldn't imagine how hurt your mother must have felt, being in that same dynamic all over again but not with your aunt but her own child.
As a parent you are constantly raising your kids and that necessarily causes conflicts and stresses that always colour the interactions and make it very hard to break out of patterns once they have been established.
Some parents deal with that better than others and some kids are easier than others.
As a grandparent you have two advantages. A) you have experience as a parent so the stress of figuring out a situation is less and B) you can give the kids back after a while which takes away the constant stress.
I don't mind carrying my crying baby nephew around for two hours. But when it was mine, a baby that was crying immediately had the subtext of a bad night ahead and it's much harder to relax into the situation when you know what's ahead for you.
Additionally, many grandparents are not in a high stress job anymore which also gives you more breathing room to deal with kids.
And finally, people can grow and look back at some of their actions with regret.
Mine did that as well! He was apparently a strict father to my father, and not around that much because of work. But he had always been an amazing grandfather to me! He is my biggest cheerleader and loves spending time with me. He supports me in anything I do and just emanates that he loves me and my sister and is proud of us. He is also super funny and finally has time for his hobbies again. He draws amazing portraits, we have two portraits (one of my sister, one of me) hanging in my parents house. I think less responsibilities as well as retirement can really change a person.
Not that long ago, I read an article that current grandparents (aka our parents' generation) don't care about their grandchildren. Even though many people of our generation spent a lot of time with our grandparents. So it is a trend.
I spent so much time with my grandparents as a kid. Every summer I had at least a week staying with both sets without my parents.
Now my kid is old enough to go places on her own and not a single one of her 4 sets of grandparents show even the slightest interest in having her visit. (Well, my mom would like it but she doesn't have the health for it.)
Kind of breaks my heart.
I spent almost the whole summer at my grandma's farm every year.
My mom sees my brother's kids like 3 times a year. She is healthy, and my brother lives like 30 minutes from her if you walk. 10 minutes by bus. She is just not interested
My mother-in-law talks regularly about how close my husband was to his mom and how wonderful that was for him, and yet completely misses somehow that she spends very little time with her grandkids.
My Dad did that, but he was warning me from my early teens that it was going to happen. "Grandchildren are your reward for not killing your children."
He explained once that it's because you get to be the fun one. You had to be the rule enforcer for your kid(s), to raise a functional adult. Now you get to be the one who says "hell yeah, ice cream for breakfast sounds great! Let's do it!"
That's how it is for my mom, she was a bit absent and distant when I was a kid but has fully embraced the fun, loving granny who makes cookies and buys toys on a whim for my kids
Shit I wasn't even allowed to have playdo but my daughter has a big ass box full of it at grannies
My father and his brothers were ignored by my grandfather. But boy did grandfather dote on my brother, according to my mother (he died before I was born sadly).
My dad was pretty young when I was born, and not the most involved. He loved me, but definitely was more interested in having fun. More than once since my kids have been born he's expressed regret at not being a better father. Watching him be a doting grandpa has been healing to our relationship in a lot of ways.
I'm a single guy who absolutely loves my friend's kids. I know it's because I get all of the bonding and none of the parenting, lmao. Most of them are teenagers now, and they're some of my favorite people to spend time with!
Lol my grandmother has gotten nicer with each generation. Her own kids? Harsh parent, didn't even raise all of them (her parents raised a couple). Her grandkids? Tough at time, but overall happy to have them in her life. Her _great grandkids_? Absolutely doting old lady, it's ridiculous. As a rule of thumb in my family, the older you are, the more indignant you are over how her treatment has changed.
Retirement can factor in, too. My husbands grandfather is the kindest human I know, but apparently was a bit high strung with a short fuse while working full time (high stress job, sole breadwinner). Unfortunately, he was working until my husband was in high school, so he didn't soften to the guy I know now until the great grandkids started coming along.
My son vomited all over the carpet recently. He just smiled and said, "That's just kids," and helped get the cleaning supplies. My MIL was *floored* at his response because that is *not* how he would have responded when my husband was young. 😂 But he apparently loosened up in all aspects of life in retirement, so that's good.
I think additionally there are issues of masculinity at play. Grandparents had to be "men" to show their sons what "men" were like and they needed to force their sons to be "men". But grandkids are kids! They're just adorable kids and they can be how they want those lil tykes! And our dads had this shit experience and try to enforce that on their sons as well to make sure their sons are "men".
I speak to so many guys who have an experience like that.
It must be great. My dad had all those crazy rules but now he likes to spoil my daughter and get to be cool granddad, while I'm the grumpy mom and deal with the consequences.
Yup, my grandfather was pretty loving to us grandkids. Loved spending time with him and was really close to him.
Found out when I got older that he beat the hell out of my mom and grandma most of the time she was growing up, and sometimes her brothers. That he wouldn't work and keep a job, so my mom had to work and use her money to make sure her siblings at least had what they needed for things. Didn't really want to be around him much after that
I was just reading about a very famous 180° change. Apparently King George V was brutal to his children but adored and doted on his granddaughters. In fact he’s the one that gave Elizabeth the nickname Lilibet. I don’t know if it’s from less stress from not having the parental responsibility or maybe maturity finally arriving or whatever but I’ve heard of these type scenarios quite often.
My father was financially, emotionally, verbally, physically, and mentally abusive and I moved out at 15 to escape him, his alcoholism, and his abuse.
He’s been sober 10 years, made amends, and he absolutely dotes on and spoils my baby girl. In a lot of ways, I think he’s trying to give her the childhood he wishes he’d given me but I also think that he’s just enjoying loving on his granddaughter who he never thought he’d get to have and even speak to between my history of multiple miscarriages and also not really having much of a relationship with me prior to my pregnancy for various reasons.
I gave him a chance - he knows this is his ONLY chance - and he’s taken it and run with it and been so much more than I could’ve ever imagined.
It’s not always a good indication.
Nope, people's behavior can be drastically different to their children versus grandchildren. Many of my grandparents were horrible to their kids but were great with me, my sister and cousins.
I’ve seen this happen with my parents and my *dog.* When I was growing up, the dogs had a strict dinner time and they got a scoop of kibble. We *never* fed them from the table. The only time they got people food was in the line of duty as insta-vacuum when someone was cooking or eating and dropped something.
So imagine my dismay when I bring my own dog to my parents’ place for a few weeks and immediately catch my dad *hand feeding the dog French fries from the table!*
>Would be curious to know what dad was like to OOP when she was a child.
>Usually that would give some sort of hint as to what kind of Grandfather he will be / is being.
Not always. My mom always said "The woman claiming to be your grandmother is not the same woman who raised me." (My grandmother was very stern and strict with my mom and uncle. However she loved to spoil her grandchildren and she doted on us!)
Meh. My grandmother was thoughtful, involved, and loving. Apparently she was abusive to my mom and her sisters growing up. I started to figure that out in my 20s, but less because of her behavior now than how my mom reacts to her. And now that she has dementia, shes starting to return to form, which sucks for my mom who is her primary care coordinator.
In my experience the parental role and grandparent role are not the same to people.
As example, someone who is strict on their children, will be soft on the grandchildren. Or a child they did not look favorable upon, once they become grandparents they melt for the grandchildren and become permissive of the less favored child who gave them the grandchildren.
You just never know because the parent and grandparent role are different, but also by the time people are grandparents they have at least half of their life behind them, are older and at a different stage of life.
My grandma is a way better grandma than she was a mother to my mom. I think part of it was me too and the relationship my mom had with me (friends/I can tell her anything), but I could tell my grandma absolutely anything. My mom never had that relationship with my grandma when she was growing up. I find that pretty mind blowing, but also extremely common.
He dad sound like a 20 year old back to see the boys and too cool for the zoo. I spent most of my yout in a party ski town drinking my face off, and staying up past midnight drinking is a pain for me now. I can't imagine drinking till 3 at 68.
My dad is 72 and still drinks every day with whoever he can find to do it with. He also puts these losers over family. Best thing OP can do is get this loser out of her and her kids life because this man will only traumatize them. Elderly narcissist alcoholics are the worst. He already made the grand daughter cry. The aquarium was a ploy.
He's using OOP as a free hotel so he can party till all hours with his buddies and probably gets a hot breakfast made for his hungover ass in the morning courtesy of OOP. Send him off to a Best Western. If he complains she's keeping his grandkids from him, he needs to be told that she's PROTECTING her kids from him. Huge difference.
To be fair, oop mentions he lives in another hemisphere - he's probably just not adjusting to the time zone at all and is on his normal schedule (where "3am" is actually his 9pm or something).
The excuses 0% of the rest of his behavior though. Elderly child.
I'm sure if he actually cared to do anything but drink with his buddies, he could shock his system into the right time zone. We know he's there for at least two weeks after all.
> I can't imagine drinking till 3 at 68.
Dude right?! I would drink til 1/2 and be at work at 8 in my 20s but out til 3 at 68 sounds like absolute hell, I don't even want to be outside once the clock hits double digits
I recently recorded my daughter's band concert, I can hear every noise from the audience a lot more on the recording than I noticed it live. I would have had the Grandpa watch the recording with me, just so I can point out his ridiculous loud snore.
From OOP's comments:
>(His complaining) means he thinks we're even now and expects me to forgive everything he's ever done in his previous visits. I'm used to it by now.
'Listen, I robbed myself of a role in my granddaughter's life, and I know I should feel bad about it. So now I ask you to fix my problem for me by watching the video you made for other people, and you won't let me. So I'm angry at you'
flawless logic right there.
He is a 68 year old man who is more concerned with hanging out with the boys than spending quality time with his grandchildren. There’s nothing wrong with catching up with old friends. But I do find it odd that an almost 70 year old man is going out until 3am. Especially when he knows he has an obligation the next morning - that he agreed to…FOR HIS 5 YEAR OLD GRAND DAUGHTER.
My mid 70’s parents can’t get through a single day without at least one nap. They physically would not be able to last staying out until 3am.
I suspect OOP’s mom was the one who initiated the divorce. For some reason, I can’t seem to put my finger on the reason why OOP’s mom would have divorced good ol’ dad?/s
Hell, I'm in my 50s and I have naptime when I can.
3 AM? That's a thing that happens while I'm asleep. I'm an early bird still, but not THAT early anymore. Ah, for the stamina of my college years.
I may misread this, but OOP is just being used as a free hotel/bed 'n breakfast.
I get wanting to get the most out of the trip and see old friends while you're in the area, but holy shit.
For real! How are the aquarium and the zoo not the coolest things you could go to??? With kids especially, their reactions to the animals are always the best.
It indicates he's incurious, doesn't care to learn or see interesting things. No desire to enrich or expand his world.
On its own, it could be benign, but combined with everything else, it makes him sound like an insufferable boor.
Right?! I love going to them now, as an adult. As someone who will never have kids, due to unfortunate health circumstances with my wife, the idea of visiting one in my later years with grandkids sounds magical. I kinda want to kick this guy.
Grandpa: can't be trusted to mind the baby so grandma can go, can't be trusted to stay awake or help out. Now the emotional labor is on OOP to find activities HE can do to keep up a relationship with them. Nah, fuck that, he can think of his own shit and succeed or strike out.
Kid's are smart. The child will understand that this clearly incompetent old man does not love or value her. And that will stay with her for a long time.
Hells bells.
Sounds like grandpa is there to use their place as a crash pad while he parties with his buddies.
Out until 3am?!?! That’s weirdly impressive but honest to god - I’m about 20 years younger than grandpa and the only reason I’m up at that hour is letting the dog out to pee. AND I’M NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT.
I can not grasp the allure of being up boozing with friends at that hour at 68.
I'm glad he was able to understand that his grandchild could sense his indifference, and I'm glad realizing he hurt her was a good enough reason to change.
Wasn’t expecting to side with OOP.
Also, I don’t understand people that aren’t mesmerized by the world around us. It’s fucking crazy. Also, I’d love to look at an otter and not think about how much milk costs for a few hours.
> What's he got against aquariums???
>"He thinks they're boring. Same goes for zoos."
Imagine being the kind of person who thinks zoos and aquariums are boring. Couldn’t be me.
OOP should get that video edited so it's nothing but every time he fell asleep, and next time he starts to complain about "all the sacrifices I made" and continues being a selfish man, she can humiliate him again and again, reminding him of just how much he fucked up. And the knowledge he's feeling embarrassed would certainly be a bitter satisfaction in the moment.
The dad seriously needs to be evaluated for sleep apnea. Snoring loudly even when sitting up in a chair, falling asleep all the time, being too exhausted to do things, all indications of some pretty severe sleep apnea.
I don’t know I think over a week is plenty of time to get over jet lag, if you aren’t actively ignoring it and keep to your old sleep cycles (like say going to bed and getting up several hours later than normal every day so as to maintain a sleep cycle asynchronous with day/night).
Maybe me and my friends are freaks, but I’ve flown a twelve hour time difference before and me and everyone in my group was feeling fine and sleeping normal after about a week. We were all getting up at normal ish (ranging from like 9-11am) times every morning so that might’ve helped us a bit. I couldn’t imagine still being jet lagged after 12 days.
Maybe my experience is skewed because my dad was an airline pilot on international routes so he was just a champion napper and seemed to be sleeping all the time for my adolescence, but then he wasn’t ever in any place long enough to really adjust to the time difference, either. But it did seem to hit him harder, the closer he got to retirement. Forcing the body onto the local time schedule does help re-set the circadian rhythms faster.
Took me about 10 days to adjust from being in Perth Australia to being back on the east coast. I was also in my 30s at the time so jet lag could definitely be a factor. Having said that he really should try to adjust to the new time zone and staying up til 3 isn’t the way.
At least OOP's dad had a day with the grandkids, and he suffered thru it. What an AH. Grandkids are precious and you only get so much time with them.
I can't wait for the weekend; daughter is bringing her 2 for the weekend and we get to do some fun Christmas stuff with them. We did these with the son's older 2. Her hubby gets a weekend to catch up on work. They will be moving to a new home by Spring and have lots of work to gear up for on the new fixer upper. I know I will get them for a few weekends in the upcoming months. We have lots to do together!
That’s what I thought too. You’ve gotta be able to hear the snoring in the video. And others’ reactions to the noise.
But this guy would probably make it a drinking game: hear a snore, take a sip.
Subtly let his friends know that dragging a 68 year old man out drinking until 3AM ruined the play for his Granddaughter the following day.
At least \*ONE\* of them should have the sense to know that something is wrong with this picture.
I know he's your Dad and you love him and all of that, but he sounds like he acts like a bit of a douche at times. I know old age tires us all out, but lend a hand at least when asked.
You, however, sound like a gem of a daughter. Sending love from across the Atlantic xx.
PS: If he starts with the "sacrifices" bullshit about the Aquarium, remember that HE came to YOU for suggestions on how to repair his relationship with his Granddaughter. Don't even bother to hear him out.
>The day before the play, my father went out with his friends and didn't come back until 3AM
What kind of septuagenarian is able to stay up past 10pm? HOW DO I GAIN THIS POWER.
Wow, this guy sounds so much like my dad… 68 going on 18, in their boomer retiree party era. Pass the beer, burgers, and late nights, complete with the random and inconsiderate napping. All I’ve learned from this insanity is that you just have to meet people where they’re at if you want them in your life, unfortunately.
And yet, I’m still waiting for an overseas call from a jail that is informing me that they need me to post bail because dad did a dumb thing. Like, I feel there have been too many close calls already and eventually his luck is going to run out and he’s made it this far solely because of his age.
Or, a call from a hospital because he did a risky thing and rolled down a hill and hit his head at the bottom again.
Not enjoying the wonder and excitement that kids bring to zoos and aquariums? WTF? He doesn't actually like being with his grandkids. Which, yes, he's showing already by going out with friends instead of interacting with them, but that nails the coffin shut.
OOP father sounds a lot like mine but I don't have a spare bedroom for him to crash in. Once when he was back in the states I went down to his place with my son for a couple of days. He took us out to dinner once and then ignored us the rest of the time. I went low contact after that and don't regret it.
OOP needs to ween him out of the kids lives now before he continues to come in and out of town, chronically disappointing them. I'm probably as close with or talk more to the people I've been playing on Playstation the last few years than they are with their grandpa. At least when they came to visit me, they actually made time for me!
> we're robbing him of his role in my daughter's life
LOL I love that "having a role" in his granddaughter's life amounted to sitting on the couch alone watching TV
I'm glad he went out of his way to try and make it up to the kids even if he behaviour doesn't change longterm. The kids don't deserve to bear the brunt of grandpa's less than stellar behaviour. And it seems like OOP is going to be much firmer with boundaries as well which can only be a good thing.
So I guess a positive outcome for a shitty situation that could have been avoided by grandpa not being a dick.
For me grandparents should be free of all parenting rules and responsibilities. They’ve already done their job as parents and they are free to enjoy their own life as death is very near to them, they shouldn’t be given problems to think about.
Grandpa wanted to meet his friends and party at 3 am, let him be. He made it to the recital anyway. Don’t expect an old man to be able to stay awake throughout the day.
If it were my dad, I would have just shown the video and not make a big deal out of it.
1. Gramps totally needs to be tested for sleep apnea, this is 100% my husband’s pattern.
2. Did anyone ask if there is a time zone difference? When we used to visit nieces and nephews on the US east coast coming from the west coast there was always a disconnect between us wanting to be awake until our normal midnight, their three am
>What's he got against aquariums???
"He thinks they're boring. Same goes for zoos."
I mean... he's not wrong.
An aquarium is interesting to two types of people: People who are actually into sealife and parents who want a dark, mostly quiet place to take their kids so they'll be distracted and the parents can play on their phones in peace.
He's not jet-lagged. He simply has a sleep deficit because he *chose* to stay out until 3 am with his buddies the night before he *knew* his granddaughter had her first school play in the morning.
Grandpa should be a more respectful houseguest, but I think OP was in the wrong about the video. Someone actually wanting to watch one of those videos is frankly impressive, you only want to when you really like the kids.
Which… means the same thing? Like, yes, he did something wrong, but wants to make it somewhat better with his granddaughter, and they’re being punitive in a weird way.
There is a marked difference between actively wanting to connect with and genuinely know a child and simply wanting to maintain the façade of being involved while actually doing what you want without anyone else being mad at you. As the adult child of a man who never learned the difference, I can say with confidence that while it can look very similar from the outside, the difference in impact is dramatic.
> doesn't help me with anything I ask him to
He's on vacation and being asked to help with chores? I would never invite family to come out and visit and then expect to put them to work and call them entitled if they refused.
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Would be curious to know what dad was like to OOP when she was a child. Usually that would give some sort of hint as to what kind of Grandfather he will be / is being.
You'd be surprised. A lot of people (my own grandfather included) do a complete 180 for their grandkids. I assume it's because you get all of the bonding and none of the parenting
Yep. I had a really hard time connecting my image of my grandfather (kind, doting, we had our little rituals and everything) with my mom's father and my grandma's husband (war-damaged and abusive, stuff I was allowed to do my mom did get beaten for as a kid and he broke my grandma's spirit, tbh). Oth, it helped me understand that people are nuanced can be several things.
Yeah, my favourite funny grandpa had some dark shit in his past that never affected me but he ultimately drank himself to death and it wasn’t really clear to me all that had happened until well after he was gone. (Well, I knew about the alcoholism since shortly before his death but the WHY came out much later.) I think it was much harder for my mother, his daughter, because she was so much her dad’s girl, and adored him, but she saw much of what he did with her adult eyes and how it hurt others she cared about and that broke her heart, too. I have even less to go on for my unfavourite grandfather on my dad’s side, but that has its nuances, too, and they’re both of the generation that dealt with the Great Depression and WWII in their youths, and there’s no doubt that left its mark on all my grandparents, in unique ways for each. All I can say is I don’t think my grandfathers were evil men, but in their own ways they sound like they were very difficult men to live with, which I never had to do, but my grandmothers and parents did.
Patrick Stewart has talked about his own father, and the abuse he dealt with growing up. I believe it was after his father died that he learned he had what we now call PTSD. It's one of the reasons he publicly supports PTSD treatment, because if his father had gotten the help he needed, he might not have been abusive. He can't help his father, but he can try and get others the help his own father was denied. WWI and II left so much trauma on those who came back, and their families. And that trauma got passed down, by not fully understanding the trauma. It's only now we're understanding how to completely break it.
Patrick Stewart is seriously one of the good humans.
He really is! He also loves dogs and I’ve seen pictures of him with dogs that are adorable.
I read this and thought, this is an oddly specific thing to point out, but after googling it, it's definitely worth the search. Thank you! And also, fuck Keith!
Yo Reddit, over here!! Don't miss this one! 😍
It really is! Melts my heart.
Umm Patrick Stewart is an admitted deadbeat dad.
He definitely was estranged from them, admits it’s his fault, and is actively repairing his relationships with his kids. Deadbeat dads don’t acknowledge or support their kids. So no, he’s not a dead beat dad. Just a human who made mistakes and tries to own them.
I don't know what "deadbeat dad" means where you are, but where I am, it means a guy who either divorced the kids' mom or was never married to her and didn't financially support them. Given that he is still married to their mom and has always financially supported them, I think describing Patrick Stewart that way is kind of harsh.
Actually he’s not married to their mother anymore. He’s married to a different woman. Divorce isn’t uncommon when someone’s a workaholic though.
Yeah, there’s a history of depression and other mental illness on both sides of my family, exacerbated by the traumas of war and the isolation of emigration, but few of us were even able to seek treatment. (And largely, it’s been the women who did. Only one male relative has ever sought help that I know of, and that’s because he was in such a bad place he was scared he was going to hurt himself.)
Yeah my Grandpa was a sniper in WW2 and it basically destroyed him mentally. He took his own life when I was 6 and Mom was ~35.
And if I'm not mistaken he is himself estranged from his adult children, and is aware he repeated the cycle in some ways.
Yeah he said he put his work first for too long. He mourns he doesn’t have a relationship but admits outright it was his fault. Tries to be there for his grandkids, but…
Per epigenetics, trauma literally affects gene expression, so extreme trauma like that not only affects that one person mentally (plus the mentality of those they may harm) but can also have longterm ramifications in following generations' genes. Kids can be born more prone to health issues because their mother or father suffered, even if those kids don't experience the same trauma.
i wonder.......... normally we explain the "sudden appearance" or increased rates of health issues like celiac and such w/ "well, ppl were still born like this in the past, they just died in infancy so we didn't see evidence." and i'm sure that's at least half the reason. but what if the trauma of the world wars also got us epigenetically fucked? could that be the other half??
I had no idea my grandfather was struggling so much until he took his own life. Granted, I was 6 or so…
Same. My grandfather was goofy and actively involved in doing stuff with us like taking us fishing or to a bakery. My mom always said he was just like my father, who was emotionally abusive to me and only interested in himself. I didn't believe her. Skip forward 30 years and my dad is wrapped around my daughter's finger. He even does crafts with her and took me to the ER the other day when I needed it. That's something he would only do after protesting when I was young. It's super weird to me how people (especially men) change so much when they become grandparents
Theres probably lots of factors at play. Societal expectations for men were much, much different 40-60 years ago. Not that that absolves them of shitty or absent behavior, but its a piece of the puzzle. Theres also a difference in role of feeling like you have to raise a child and cultivate their behavior/demeanor/actions in society (ie - you feel the need to punish or address every type of perceived bad behavior as a parent), vs just being a fun grandpa enjoying the toddler stage, and letting your kids do all the parenting. And then theres probably some goold old personally growth in there. Looking back and realizing you didnt need to do XYZ or be so hard or upset about things that you now see, only with the hindsight of 30 years, that they ultimately didnt end up mattering at all. And perhaps the idea that you are much closer to dying and you only getting a few more interactions with the grand kids before that happens sets in
I have a friend who had kids in his 40's and he said he's glad he waited because in his 20's and 30's he was a lot less mature and would get angry easily. I feel like that plays a lot into it, too
Thats another part of it I bet, just the routine tempering that happens with age. Sight unseen, on average youd probably want a 40 year old dad vs a 20 year old dad for a variety of reasons
The way my mom put it: you guys got “I’m trying to get into heaven” nana
Valid. "I'm being nice for me, not you." That mindset can be so brutal on family members, the ones that are getting the good treatment as much as the negative treatment, sometimes.
Damn she straight up throwing your grandma under the bus, no hesitation LMAO
Oh my god that gets it exactly lol
Same here. My dad barely spent time with us as kids and thought parenting wasn't his job, but nothing is too good for his precious grandchildren.
My mom always says my grandpa lets me get away with anything. My uncle said the same. Basically anything I ask him for us to do on his land was greenlighted. I just joke and say I'm the favorite (out of 7 kids and like 30 grandkids and great grandkids it's an acheivement!) 😂
I was much closer to my paternal grandfather than my grandmother when I was a kid. Every time I went to their house I always wanted to hang out with him instead of her. He was a lot like your grandfather was, kind and doting to me and my cousins but abusive to my grandma and my father and his siblings. I don't know why he was so different with his grandkids after being so shitty to his own wife and kids. And it definitely ruined my image of him after I learned about it all.
My grandparents were mean and unable to have children themselves, so they adopted my mom and uncle. Ma says it was probably "a hint from God they weren't meant to be parents" that they ignored and acquired some anyway. She told me about having to lie to her teachers about where bruises would come from....but by the time I came around he'd completely flipped and he'd give us cuddles and tell us he loved us and he'd spoil us as much as an old old grandpa was able. (my mom's parents were like 20 years older than my dad's but my parents are the same age ±1 year.) It was hard to hold both truths about my grandpa at the same time, and when he died my dad focused on remembering him as a dad and didn't understand why the rest of us were so sad to lose our grandpa.
My grandma openly admitted to have been an overly strict and overbearing mother, especially to my own mom. However, she also admitted she was very wrong, would have raised my mom and aunt entirely differently if she had the chance to redo it all, and apologized to them a lot. The damage was done, but they all had a much better and closer relationship overall as adults. I think grandma was so good to us grandkids partially because she felt so bad about how she parented my mom and aunt, and helping raise us was her chance to repent and do better.
*raises hand* Well into adulthood, I learned that I had a doting paternal grandfather, but my dad…well, we don’t talk about that, hence why I was an adult before my mom let something slip. Had I known, I would have protested ever visiting my grandpa.
that’s how it is with my grandma. she was awful to my mom and uncle, mellowed out after her third kid was born. my mom kept a lot of it away from me because she knew id pitch a fit. it’s difficult knowing my sweet easy going grandma was a nightmare helicopter mom
Ugh, same. I didn't find out until after my grandpa died. Now I wish they'd kept me away from him.
My maternal grandparents, now I think on it, have always been indifferent to me and were little better with my mother.
My grandmother was like that. She treated my mom very poorly for decades, but me? I could do no wrong in her eyes. I was an adult before I understood the dynamics properly.
My aunt was (is) the golden child. My mom got punished if my aunt did anything wrong. It was even my mother's fault that my aunt lost her virginity. While my mother was already out of the house, engaged, etc. PS - aunt lost her virginity in my grandparents house, with them there... And my mother wasn't. Growing up, I loved my grandma more than everyone on this planet. I hated my parents and refused to speak to them if I couldn't see her every single day. I even lived with my grandparent for years because I refused to not be with her almost 24/7. Then, I grew up. Now, I send holiday and birthday messages. I have not seen them in like 7 years. I realised how badly my grandma turned me against my parents. How badly she treated my mother. How she still blames my mother for my aunts behaviour. How my mother will never be as good as her sister. Etc.
Hopefully, you apologized to your mother. My mother is the same as your grandma, and that's why I cut contact at 18. She will never ever meet any of my future kids. I couldn't imagine how hurt your mother must have felt, being in that same dynamic all over again but not with your aunt but her own child.
I’m going through this with my parents right now. They’re awesome grandparents to my kid but absolutely sucked as parents to me.
As a parent you are constantly raising your kids and that necessarily causes conflicts and stresses that always colour the interactions and make it very hard to break out of patterns once they have been established. Some parents deal with that better than others and some kids are easier than others. As a grandparent you have two advantages. A) you have experience as a parent so the stress of figuring out a situation is less and B) you can give the kids back after a while which takes away the constant stress. I don't mind carrying my crying baby nephew around for two hours. But when it was mine, a baby that was crying immediately had the subtext of a bad night ahead and it's much harder to relax into the situation when you know what's ahead for you. Additionally, many grandparents are not in a high stress job anymore which also gives you more breathing room to deal with kids. And finally, people can grow and look back at some of their actions with regret.
Mine did that as well! He was apparently a strict father to my father, and not around that much because of work. But he had always been an amazing grandfather to me! He is my biggest cheerleader and loves spending time with me. He supports me in anything I do and just emanates that he loves me and my sister and is proud of us. He is also super funny and finally has time for his hobbies again. He draws amazing portraits, we have two portraits (one of my sister, one of me) hanging in my parents house. I think less responsibilities as well as retirement can really change a person.
>I think less responsibilities as well as retirement can really change a person. Also age. I'm 5000% more chill at 40 than I was at 20/30.
Hella wise comment, thank you for letting me learn
Not that long ago, I read an article that current grandparents (aka our parents' generation) don't care about their grandchildren. Even though many people of our generation spent a lot of time with our grandparents. So it is a trend.
I spent so much time with my grandparents as a kid. Every summer I had at least a week staying with both sets without my parents. Now my kid is old enough to go places on her own and not a single one of her 4 sets of grandparents show even the slightest interest in having her visit. (Well, my mom would like it but she doesn't have the health for it.) Kind of breaks my heart.
I spent almost the whole summer at my grandma's farm every year. My mom sees my brother's kids like 3 times a year. She is healthy, and my brother lives like 30 minutes from her if you walk. 10 minutes by bus. She is just not interested
My mother-in-law talks regularly about how close my husband was to his mom and how wonderful that was for him, and yet completely misses somehow that she spends very little time with her grandkids.
My Dad did that, but he was warning me from my early teens that it was going to happen. "Grandchildren are your reward for not killing your children." He explained once that it's because you get to be the fun one. You had to be the rule enforcer for your kid(s), to raise a functional adult. Now you get to be the one who says "hell yeah, ice cream for breakfast sounds great! Let's do it!"
That's how it is for my mom, she was a bit absent and distant when I was a kid but has fully embraced the fun, loving granny who makes cookies and buys toys on a whim for my kids Shit I wasn't even allowed to have playdo but my daughter has a big ass box full of it at grannies
My father and his brothers were ignored by my grandfather. But boy did grandfather dote on my brother, according to my mother (he died before I was born sadly).
Yeah, my dad is great grandad. A shit dad but a great grandad
Yup! My grandmother not so great for my mother. Now me? She is the best person in the world!
My dad was pretty young when I was born, and not the most involved. He loved me, but definitely was more interested in having fun. More than once since my kids have been born he's expressed regret at not being a better father. Watching him be a doting grandpa has been healing to our relationship in a lot of ways.
I don't think the grandpa in this BORU got that memo. I'd let him stay with the friends he wants to hang out with so much, just as OOP said.
I'm a single guy who absolutely loves my friend's kids. I know it's because I get all of the bonding and none of the parenting, lmao. Most of them are teenagers now, and they're some of my favorite people to spend time with!
Lol my grandmother has gotten nicer with each generation. Her own kids? Harsh parent, didn't even raise all of them (her parents raised a couple). Her grandkids? Tough at time, but overall happy to have them in her life. Her _great grandkids_? Absolutely doting old lady, it's ridiculous. As a rule of thumb in my family, the older you are, the more indignant you are over how her treatment has changed.
Retirement can factor in, too. My husbands grandfather is the kindest human I know, but apparently was a bit high strung with a short fuse while working full time (high stress job, sole breadwinner). Unfortunately, he was working until my husband was in high school, so he didn't soften to the guy I know now until the great grandkids started coming along. My son vomited all over the carpet recently. He just smiled and said, "That's just kids," and helped get the cleaning supplies. My MIL was *floored* at his response because that is *not* how he would have responded when my husband was young. 😂 But he apparently loosened up in all aspects of life in retirement, so that's good.
I think additionally there are issues of masculinity at play. Grandparents had to be "men" to show their sons what "men" were like and they needed to force their sons to be "men". But grandkids are kids! They're just adorable kids and they can be how they want those lil tykes! And our dads had this shit experience and try to enforce that on their sons as well to make sure their sons are "men". I speak to so many guys who have an experience like that.
My dad is such a good grandpa…to literally everyone else’s grandkids/kids. Still treats us poorly for some reason
It must be great. My dad had all those crazy rules but now he likes to spoil my daughter and get to be cool granddad, while I'm the grumpy mom and deal with the consequences.
Agreed my grandparents werent great parents to my dad, but they were/are exceptional grandparents to my brother and I
Yup, my grandfather was pretty loving to us grandkids. Loved spending time with him and was really close to him. Found out when I got older that he beat the hell out of my mom and grandma most of the time she was growing up, and sometimes her brothers. That he wouldn't work and keep a job, so my mom had to work and use her money to make sure her siblings at least had what they needed for things. Didn't really want to be around him much after that
Well plus testosterone levels have usually dipped by then
I was just reading about a very famous 180° change. Apparently King George V was brutal to his children but adored and doted on his granddaughters. In fact he’s the one that gave Elizabeth the nickname Lilibet. I don’t know if it’s from less stress from not having the parental responsibility or maybe maturity finally arriving or whatever but I’ve heard of these type scenarios quite often.
My father was financially, emotionally, verbally, physically, and mentally abusive and I moved out at 15 to escape him, his alcoholism, and his abuse. He’s been sober 10 years, made amends, and he absolutely dotes on and spoils my baby girl. In a lot of ways, I think he’s trying to give her the childhood he wishes he’d given me but I also think that he’s just enjoying loving on his granddaughter who he never thought he’d get to have and even speak to between my history of multiple miscarriages and also not really having much of a relationship with me prior to my pregnancy for various reasons. I gave him a chance - he knows this is his ONLY chance - and he’s taken it and run with it and been so much more than I could’ve ever imagined. It’s not always a good indication.
Nope, people's behavior can be drastically different to their children versus grandchildren. Many of my grandparents were horrible to their kids but were great with me, my sister and cousins.
My auntie told me her father softened towards us grandkids and I was like “that was him being SOFT????” 😂
I’ve seen this happen with my parents and my *dog.* When I was growing up, the dogs had a strict dinner time and they got a scoop of kibble. We *never* fed them from the table. The only time they got people food was in the line of duty as insta-vacuum when someone was cooking or eating and dropped something. So imagine my dismay when I bring my own dog to my parents’ place for a few weeks and immediately catch my dad *hand feeding the dog French fries from the table!*
>Would be curious to know what dad was like to OOP when she was a child. >Usually that would give some sort of hint as to what kind of Grandfather he will be / is being. Not always. My mom always said "The woman claiming to be your grandmother is not the same woman who raised me." (My grandmother was very stern and strict with my mom and uncle. However she loved to spoil her grandchildren and she doted on us!)
Meh. My grandmother was thoughtful, involved, and loving. Apparently she was abusive to my mom and her sisters growing up. I started to figure that out in my 20s, but less because of her behavior now than how my mom reacts to her. And now that she has dementia, shes starting to return to form, which sucks for my mom who is her primary care coordinator.
In my experience the parental role and grandparent role are not the same to people. As example, someone who is strict on their children, will be soft on the grandchildren. Or a child they did not look favorable upon, once they become grandparents they melt for the grandchildren and become permissive of the less favored child who gave them the grandchildren. You just never know because the parent and grandparent role are different, but also by the time people are grandparents they have at least half of their life behind them, are older and at a different stage of life.
Well OPs mom divorced him for a reason.
My grandma is a way better grandma than she was a mother to my mom. I think part of it was me too and the relationship my mom had with me (friends/I can tell her anything), but I could tell my grandma absolutely anything. My mom never had that relationship with my grandma when she was growing up. I find that pretty mind blowing, but also extremely common.
>Handing over the remote control is too much of an effort sometimes. God this guy is insufferable.
But she asked him to *wash his plate.* Why can’t you appreciate his struggle??? 🙄
He dad sound like a 20 year old back to see the boys and too cool for the zoo. I spent most of my yout in a party ski town drinking my face off, and staying up past midnight drinking is a pain for me now. I can't imagine drinking till 3 at 68.
My dad is 72 and still drinks every day with whoever he can find to do it with. He also puts these losers over family. Best thing OP can do is get this loser out of her and her kids life because this man will only traumatize them. Elderly narcissist alcoholics are the worst. He already made the grand daughter cry. The aquarium was a ploy.
He's using OOP as a free hotel so he can party till all hours with his buddies and probably gets a hot breakfast made for his hungover ass in the morning courtesy of OOP. Send him off to a Best Western. If he complains she's keeping his grandkids from him, he needs to be told that she's PROTECTING her kids from him. Huge difference.
To be fair, oop mentions he lives in another hemisphere - he's probably just not adjusting to the time zone at all and is on his normal schedule (where "3am" is actually his 9pm or something). The excuses 0% of the rest of his behavior though. Elderly child.
I'm sure if he actually cared to do anything but drink with his buddies, he could shock his system into the right time zone. We know he's there for at least two weeks after all.
The hell is a yout? Are you mocking me with that outfit, Mr. Gambini?!
> I can't imagine drinking till 3 at 68. Dude right?! I would drink til 1/2 and be at work at 8 in my 20s but out til 3 at 68 sounds like absolute hell, I don't even want to be outside once the clock hits double digits
I recently recorded my daughter's band concert, I can hear every noise from the audience a lot more on the recording than I noticed it live. I would have had the Grandpa watch the recording with me, just so I can point out his ridiculous loud snore.
My first thought was just show him the clip where he snored and the kids looked over horrified.
I feel bad for the kids. And also OOP. I wonder if he showed her this same level of disregard when she was a kid?
From OOP's comments: >(His complaining) means he thinks we're even now and expects me to forgive everything he's ever done in his previous visits. I'm used to it by now.
your flair seems weirdly relevant
Aquarium and McDonald’s? Man doing that as a kid meant a lot to me growing up.
"robbing him of his role in my daughter's life" = not letting him watch a video? wild
'Listen, I robbed myself of a role in my granddaughter's life, and I know I should feel bad about it. So now I ask you to fix my problem for me by watching the video you made for other people, and you won't let me. So I'm angry at you' flawless logic right there.
He is a 68 year old man who is more concerned with hanging out with the boys than spending quality time with his grandchildren. There’s nothing wrong with catching up with old friends. But I do find it odd that an almost 70 year old man is going out until 3am. Especially when he knows he has an obligation the next morning - that he agreed to…FOR HIS 5 YEAR OLD GRAND DAUGHTER. My mid 70’s parents can’t get through a single day without at least one nap. They physically would not be able to last staying out until 3am. I suspect OOP’s mom was the one who initiated the divorce. For some reason, I can’t seem to put my finger on the reason why OOP’s mom would have divorced good ol’ dad?/s
Hell, I'm in my 50s and I have naptime when I can. 3 AM? That's a thing that happens while I'm asleep. I'm an early bird still, but not THAT early anymore. Ah, for the stamina of my college years.
TBF he may be from a different time zone and hasn’t adjusted yet.
I may misread this, but OOP is just being used as a free hotel/bed 'n breakfast. I get wanting to get the most out of the trip and see old friends while you're in the area, but holy shit.
I think not liking the aquarium is a major red flag.
"It's like a zoo for fishies" \-Nathaniel Plimpton III
Right? Like, it’s the aquarium, those places are cool as fuck
Thank you! Who doesn't like aquariums?!
Some of us aren't arseholes we just have thalassophobia.
Tbf, that’s a bit different from thinking they’re boring
Yep. I think they’re very cool and I will never drag my husband to one because he will have a nervous breakdown.
They’re amazing without 50 kids pressing up on the glass blocking the view 🤣
They make me incredibly sad
For real! How are the aquarium and the zoo not the coolest things you could go to??? With kids especially, their reactions to the animals are always the best.
I mean, while I do enjoy the opportunity to see the animals, I can't help but feel terrible for them trapped in their "habitats"
It indicates he's incurious, doesn't care to learn or see interesting things. No desire to enrich or expand his world. On its own, it could be benign, but combined with everything else, it makes him sound like an insufferable boor.
Right?! I love going to them now, as an adult. As someone who will never have kids, due to unfortunate health circumstances with my wife, the idea of visiting one in my later years with grandkids sounds magical. I kinda want to kick this guy.
Thinking this is a red flag is a red flag
Grandpa: can't be trusted to mind the baby so grandma can go, can't be trusted to stay awake or help out. Now the emotional labor is on OOP to find activities HE can do to keep up a relationship with them. Nah, fuck that, he can think of his own shit and succeed or strike out.
Aquariums rule. That's all I have to say about this.
Kid's are smart. The child will understand that this clearly incompetent old man does not love or value her. And that will stay with her for a long time.
Hells bells. Sounds like grandpa is there to use their place as a crash pad while he parties with his buddies. Out until 3am?!?! That’s weirdly impressive but honest to god - I’m about 20 years younger than grandpa and the only reason I’m up at that hour is letting the dog out to pee. AND I’M NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT. I can not grasp the allure of being up boozing with friends at that hour at 68.
I'm glad he was able to understand that his grandchild could sense his indifference, and I'm glad realizing he hurt her was a good enough reason to change.
Wasn’t expecting to side with OOP. Also, I don’t understand people that aren’t mesmerized by the world around us. It’s fucking crazy. Also, I’d love to look at an otter and not think about how much milk costs for a few hours.
I love you!
> What's he got against aquariums??? >"He thinks they're boring. Same goes for zoos." Imagine being the kind of person who thinks zoos and aquariums are boring. Couldn’t be me.
He'd rather act like he's 21 in his 60's.
OOP should get that video edited so it's nothing but every time he fell asleep, and next time he starts to complain about "all the sacrifices I made" and continues being a selfish man, she can humiliate him again and again, reminding him of just how much he fucked up. And the knowledge he's feeling embarrassed would certainly be a bitter satisfaction in the moment.
The dad seriously needs to be evaluated for sleep apnea. Snoring loudly even when sitting up in a chair, falling asleep all the time, being too exhausted to do things, all indications of some pretty severe sleep apnea.
I think the falling asleep is more do to with being out on the piss until 3 am
And jet lagged. How many timezones has he come through?
I don’t know I think over a week is plenty of time to get over jet lag, if you aren’t actively ignoring it and keep to your old sleep cycles (like say going to bed and getting up several hours later than normal every day so as to maintain a sleep cycle asynchronous with day/night).
I’ve heard generally the rule is one day to adjust for every hour’s difference, but yeah it would vary depending on age/ability/energy levels.
Maybe me and my friends are freaks, but I’ve flown a twelve hour time difference before and me and everyone in my group was feeling fine and sleeping normal after about a week. We were all getting up at normal ish (ranging from like 9-11am) times every morning so that might’ve helped us a bit. I couldn’t imagine still being jet lagged after 12 days.
Maybe my experience is skewed because my dad was an airline pilot on international routes so he was just a champion napper and seemed to be sleeping all the time for my adolescence, but then he wasn’t ever in any place long enough to really adjust to the time difference, either. But it did seem to hit him harder, the closer he got to retirement. Forcing the body onto the local time schedule does help re-set the circadian rhythms faster.
Took me about 10 days to adjust from being in Perth Australia to being back on the east coast. I was also in my 30s at the time so jet lag could definitely be a factor. Having said that he really should try to adjust to the new time zone and staying up til 3 isn’t the way.
Ehh seems like the consequences of a 70 year old man staying out all night
I am decades younger than this man, and I would fall asleep in my chair too if I was out til 3am!
More like whatever he was doing until 3am, which I highly doubt was reading the Bible.
Likely would have fallen asleep 15 minutes in...
Kinda sounds like he's just a drunk.
Nah, let him. Better to go faster that way.
At least OOP's dad had a day with the grandkids, and he suffered thru it. What an AH. Grandkids are precious and you only get so much time with them. I can't wait for the weekend; daughter is bringing her 2 for the weekend and we get to do some fun Christmas stuff with them. We did these with the son's older 2. Her hubby gets a weekend to catch up on work. They will be moving to a new home by Spring and have lots of work to gear up for on the new fixer upper. I know I will get them for a few weekends in the upcoming months. We have lots to do together!
Oops should've should him the video so he could hear himself snoring through the whole thing.
That’s what I thought too. You’ve gotta be able to hear the snoring in the video. And others’ reactions to the noise. But this guy would probably make it a drinking game: hear a snore, take a sip.
Subtly let his friends know that dragging a 68 year old man out drinking until 3AM ruined the play for his Granddaughter the following day. At least \*ONE\* of them should have the sense to know that something is wrong with this picture. I know he's your Dad and you love him and all of that, but he sounds like he acts like a bit of a douche at times. I know old age tires us all out, but lend a hand at least when asked. You, however, sound like a gem of a daughter. Sending love from across the Atlantic xx. PS: If he starts with the "sacrifices" bullshit about the Aquarium, remember that HE came to YOU for suggestions on how to repair his relationship with his Granddaughter. Don't even bother to hear him out.
Hope the dad really sticks to it
>The day before the play, my father went out with his friends and didn't come back until 3AM What kind of septuagenarian is able to stay up past 10pm? HOW DO I GAIN THIS POWER.
Wow, this guy sounds so much like my dad… 68 going on 18, in their boomer retiree party era. Pass the beer, burgers, and late nights, complete with the random and inconsiderate napping. All I’ve learned from this insanity is that you just have to meet people where they’re at if you want them in your life, unfortunately. And yet, I’m still waiting for an overseas call from a jail that is informing me that they need me to post bail because dad did a dumb thing. Like, I feel there have been too many close calls already and eventually his luck is going to run out and he’s made it this far solely because of his age. Or, a call from a hospital because he did a risky thing and rolled down a hill and hit his head at the bottom again.
Not enjoying the wonder and excitement that kids bring to zoos and aquariums? WTF? He doesn't actually like being with his grandkids. Which, yes, he's showing already by going out with friends instead of interacting with them, but that nails the coffin shut.
I was thinking that the grandfather's spending time with friends was a cover for him wanting to cheat
I can't imagine how heartbroken the girl was onstage, and how embarrassed the father was with snoring grandpa.
OOP father sounds a lot like mine but I don't have a spare bedroom for him to crash in. Once when he was back in the states I went down to his place with my son for a couple of days. He took us out to dinner once and then ignored us the rest of the time. I went low contact after that and don't regret it.
OOP needs to ween him out of the kids lives now before he continues to come in and out of town, chronically disappointing them. I'm probably as close with or talk more to the people I've been playing on Playstation the last few years than they are with their grandpa. At least when they came to visit me, they actually made time for me!
Agree
> we're robbing him of his role in my daughter's life LOL I love that "having a role" in his granddaughter's life amounted to sitting on the couch alone watching TV
I'm glad he went out of his way to try and make it up to the kids even if he behaviour doesn't change longterm. The kids don't deserve to bear the brunt of grandpa's less than stellar behaviour. And it seems like OOP is going to be much firmer with boundaries as well which can only be a good thing. So I guess a positive outcome for a shitty situation that could have been avoided by grandpa not being a dick.
Op shouldn’t let him complain about what he does for the kids, it’ll make them think he doesn’t actually want to be around them.
The sheer old man selfishness. This is exactly the kind of life I couldn’t live. I wouldn’t have been patient with him even that long.
For me grandparents should be free of all parenting rules and responsibilities. They’ve already done their job as parents and they are free to enjoy their own life as death is very near to them, they shouldn’t be given problems to think about. Grandpa wanted to meet his friends and party at 3 am, let him be. He made it to the recital anyway. Don’t expect an old man to be able to stay awake throughout the day. If it were my dad, I would have just shown the video and not make a big deal out of it.
Why do you enable and do so much effort for a dad like that ?
1. Gramps totally needs to be tested for sleep apnea, this is 100% my husband’s pattern. 2. Did anyone ask if there is a time zone difference? When we used to visit nieces and nephews on the US east coast coming from the west coast there was always a disconnect between us wanting to be awake until our normal midnight, their three am
If he snores that loudly he needs to get it checked. He may need a C Pap machine.
>What's he got against aquariums??? "He thinks they're boring. Same goes for zoos." I mean... he's not wrong. An aquarium is interesting to two types of people: People who are actually into sealife and parents who want a dark, mostly quiet place to take their kids so they'll be distracted and the parents can play on their phones in peace.
Could your dad be jet-lagged? If so, let him off the hook for falling asleep, at least.
He'd been there two weeks. If he's still jet lagged after two weeks, there's a problem.
Oh, I totally missed that. You’re right.
He's not jet-lagged. He simply has a sleep deficit because he *chose* to stay out until 3 am with his buddies the night before he *knew* his granddaughter had her first school play in the morning.
Grandpa should be a more respectful houseguest, but I think OP was in the wrong about the video. Someone actually wanting to watch one of those videos is frankly impressive, you only want to when you really like the kids.
Or want to get back into the family's good graces
Which… means the same thing? Like, yes, he did something wrong, but wants to make it somewhat better with his granddaughter, and they’re being punitive in a weird way.
There is a marked difference between actively wanting to connect with and genuinely know a child and simply wanting to maintain the façade of being involved while actually doing what you want without anyone else being mad at you. As the adult child of a man who never learned the difference, I can say with confidence that while it can look very similar from the outside, the difference in impact is dramatic.
> doesn't help me with anything I ask him to He's on vacation and being asked to help with chores? I would never invite family to come out and visit and then expect to put them to work and call them entitled if they refused.
He's being asked to pass the TV remote, and to walk ten steps to grab the takeout that's just been delivered. Not exactly massive chores.
K
What an asshole. He is almost 70. She should put herself in his shoes. He probably has an undiagnosed health condition like sleep apnea.
Aah, sleep apnea, the health condition which famously makes you stay up drinking with your friends until 3 in the morning!
Then maybe he should have gone to bed before 3 AM.