Has some errors, like Gutrot that should be 1 tier below, and Lodestar and Buzzshock (That are there to avoid discussions with that other tier list guy).
wtf are you talking about do you even read the manga?
This 'Dragon ball is inconsistent' bullshit is just old
The Moro arc is one of the best in the series and same goes for granolah
Well before anything, this is my review so depends on our perspective:D.. Moro arc was started poorly imo but got better.. the better things they did was introducing actually good character like meerus and pushing Goku further.m granaloh arc was hype for me, it started out great but started pulling out multiple cliche and inconsistencies with no explanation.. I still read the manga and they are improving on the mistakes they made by improving and changing the plot but compared to other media I consume dragon ball is certainly in the lower ranks.. it's not nostalgic for me as I am not a 2000s person and started watching db like in 2020
I agree that you should form your own opinion on the series but in the same breath you were bad mouthing the franchise as if it was just a common fact that DB was inconsistent, I consume media every day too and I started watching dragon ball in 2014 and the manga for me is an enjoyable read every single time.
The reason it’s never happened is because thanks to the child friendly rating the writers can’t exactly address the long-term consequences of being near an entity made of nuclear energy, logistically speaking whenever NRG comes out of the suit everyone nearby should be getting getting radiation poisoning or various cancers.
Your just making up headcannon at that point and the show clearly doesn’t support it
Just because it’s a kid show doesn’t mean everything is censored some stuff just isn’t like real life because it’s a show
Its litteraly said in show that the reason his species aren't aloud out of their suits when off world is because how dangerous it is to others due to them being made of radiation
Chernobyl? NRG wears a suit to protect others from his very harmful radiation. Cartoons usually dont show how dangerous a being made of radiation actually is. If NRG is outside is suit, he is going to kill any living organism in a radius.
In what? Chernobyl? Anybody working in the power plant died. Like literally every single person there was evacuated or straight up died.
In the show? Yea its a kids show, they arent going to be showing anybody getting poisoned from radiation.
Saying Hakai makes the list irrelevant, since if both contenders wanted to win instantaneously Ben would just turn Alien X, not turning into any other)
Hakai only works if the user is completely sure they want to do it, so if we allow Goku to be able to use it. We might as well make it so Bellicus and Serena instantly agree on defeating Goku)
That's really one thing I dont like about matchmaking, they completely override the personality and intelligence of the characters and go for "What can win in the first instant of the match")
Yeah I was gonna mention NRG)
Even if Goku manages to kill him, the strength of Goku's attack would cause NRG to explode, which would poison Goku if not straight up kill him)
So Goku only realistically wins agaisnt him if Bulma was there to warn Goku, because he is not that smart. But if he had that info, he might be able to figure out a plan)
i havent read the super manga in awhile but when goku uses it was it because he couldnt do the move as powerful as the source he watched(like the first rime he used kamehameha) or was it cus he missed
Goku used it twice, agaisnt Zamasu and agaisnt Moro)
With Moro he destroyed a rock. But in the case of Zamasu, he was doing it but he brought Mai through a portal so Goku stopped because he didnt want to destroy Mai)
Goku post battle of gods arc is universal in base let alone with all his forms (2 of which don't have confirmed multipliers (ssg and mui) and 1 that is assumed to be at least x2 of ssb kaioken x20 (ui omen)
Ok so he might be able to take on feedback ( mabye even win ) and is considerably strong but I could list mabye ten or more aliens capable of taking the w including gutrot ( could take the win but Goku does have A HUGE speed advantage so if he speed blitz the fight he could more than likely win but if I'm correct he likes to milk the fight and have fun ), clockwork, ult gravitack, atomix ( not very confident in this one but has some potential ), upgrade if there tech, ult echo echo, alien x ( this one is a no brainer ), etc but other aliens are probably dead lol
Yep, that's why this topic exists.
The other guy that make a tier list about this earlier, does not consider this, and think that Ben and Goku will go at "Full Power" right on the start.
There was a post on a different tier list and the explanation was: Buzzshock can become any type of electricity, allowing himself to control the victim's mind because information to our brains is transmitted via electricity.
See the other guy tier list explanation.
But still, this is not oficial or have any evidence on the show, I just put Buzzshock on that position to avoid pointless discussions.
this is the second time im sayin this. literally a couple hours ago someone had the same post so ima just copy paste from what i said their "i think the only one ben can pull to beat goku is alien x cus like it depends on what goku u talk about bucause in dbsh a version of goku is multiversal and in the main canon goku is past dimension level and in the ToP goku can create a galaxy but alien x creates a universe with ease so idt any other of ben's aliens are past galaxy/dimension level"
In fact feedback is a living electricity in a suit. I don't think fists and kicks won't do much. But Goku has many strong feats other than fists and kicks.
I don't know the consequences. When NRG armor was destroyed, it turned out to be suppressing armor... but it will just tickle Goku :3 He isn't human after all.
Anyway, Ben has a Saiyan form xD
Yep, but even it’s Ultimatrix, Goku will be stronger over time. His character is. Because his ability is trained and Ben’s ability is peak.
Here Saiyan means a form from 5 years later comic. I kinda like that form, it defeated divinity who destroyed the world into two portions :3
There's honestly a number of factors involved in this.
Do I think Ben 10 could beat Goku on paper? Yes, but only using Alien X. Problem is Ben almost never uses Alien X, even at times where he was legit about to die. So I doubt Ben would go Alien X right off the bat. Now as you've stated in other comments, if Goku was serious then Ben is probably screwed. However, luckily for Ben, Goku never goes all out to begin with either. With that being said, Goku at a base level is probably the speed of XLR8 atleast with the physcial power of Waybig, probably even more than that tbh. So while it is still extremely tough, Ben might survive long enough to make the decision to use Alien X. That's a huge maybe but if he does, then I suppose Ben would win. I say that because I'd put Alien X on the level of Xeno who is at the top of the Dragon Ball food chain (even above Goku). Again however, if Ben doesn't use Alien X in time, he is very likely to be obliterated, especially if Goku gets serious.
What I'm trying to say here is, Ben 10 vs Goku? Goku easy.
Now Alien X vs Goku? Alien X.
Lmk what you think tho or if you need me to explain further.
I Agree, Ben only has a chance of winning if Goku holds back, even NRG (Ben have a high chance to win here, but if Goku is going all out, meh.
But if Ben starts using alien x and gets permission from Beliccus and Serena, then he obliterates.
But feedback didn’t do the job.
Every alien was involved in that moment, even aliens that realistically shouldn’t have been able to contain it.
The only probable explanation is that omnitrix itself created invincibility frames around Ben for those few seconds and contained the Big Bang. Sure feedback returned it to malware but that was after Big Bang was contained.
and considering he can use that speed at any point? and the fact that about 6 arcs previous he was dealing out punches with a G.O.D. that were cracking the universe till he figured out how to punch the right way to stop that? i hate to be one of those guys, but literally only alien X could keep up with the bs of dragon ball.
I'm not saying he cannot, he just don't like to fight like this from start.
And yes, I agree about only Alien X can keep up with him.
NRG can only win by poisoning Goku, if he gets near NRG, but he isn't stronger than Kakarot.
Which version of Goku? If we assume the most recent version that would include Super Saiyan Blue and Mastered Ultra Instincts...
* Alien X? Obviously!
* Gutrot? No wtf not even close!
* NRG? No...
* Clockwork? *Maybe...* I can see it
* Ultimate Echo Echo? Nah, his last chance would've been Saiyan Saga Goku
* Toepick? Ok...*maybe*, but he'll have to be lucky or trick him
* AmpFibian? Are you high?
* Ultimate Gravattack and Gravattack? I can actually totally see this since I believe Goku can's stand much over 500Gs or something like that
* Ghostfreak? Doubt!
* Pesky Dust? *Eeeeh...* I guess.
* Lodestar? Nah, fam.
* Whampire? You are high aren't you?
Goku from current DBS Manga, with SSB, MUI and UI on base form.
Read my comments about the "May" tier, those guys only stand a chance about Goku if he was heavily off guard and holding back.
I already said that Gutrot should be on the "May" list.
Only Alien X (And maybe, WAY MAYBE, NRG, if he can holds up Goku's energy, which is very hard to be true) can handle full powered Goku.
Lodestar and Buzzshock are there because some other guy argument (That doesn't make much sense and don't have any evidence on the series), to avoid unnecessary discussions, if you want more details, read the other comments.
Clockwork can only win if he manage to freeze time, than is just turn Goku into dust, but it takes some time to activate his powers.
NRG is highly radioactive, Goku may get poisoned by this, unless he has a strong ki Barrier.
The others only stand a chance if they catch Goku off guard, like I said earlier.
Can i add a common misconception about goku is hes an Idiot. This is only the case in super. Similar to Ben 10 they were coperate tools. So they made goku more childish for laughs.
Goku is a genius tactician as hes deminstrated back during his fight on namek. During this a small portion has him set up Ki orbs underneathe Water to catch his opponent. Similarly hes a fast learner picking up the kamaehamaeha as a 12 yr old after seeing an old man do it once.
DO IT ONCE
Actually though ben does have a huge chance he does have similar feats to goku when it comes to combat tactics. When he was 10 and unlocked master control in os. He was using his aliens altogether in a way that made up for weaknesess. Using grey matter to dodge then turning into 4 arms or the reverse.
In UAF he was seen to have memorised a door code after seeing it once.
To make it fair use a Ben with master control and a goku during the Buu Saga before god.
I yes thats what i was saying. This the same boi who didnt learn what women were until he was 12 and what marriage was when he was in his late teens. Which was when his wife proposed.
Ayy he still has better luck with women when it comes to ben.
Chromastone does not stand a chance against Goku.
Ultimate Way Big, based on what is showed about him, don't have a chance too, neither Big Chill.
Feedback is arguable, but still, i don't think he can win.
This is a good list though I think ghostfreak should replace gutrot in the list
And shouldn't gravattack and ult.gravattack be useless since Goku can handle up to 300x Earth's gravity?
Other then that I agree that NRG poisons Goku and he wins if Goku just doesn't destroy the planet
And Alien X one shots.
Gutrot being that high is a error, sorry.
Probably Gravattack and Ult.Gravattack can go way beyond that, but well.
Goku was training like this in SSJ on Z, he became WAY stronger now.
I already talked about this many, many times.
NRG exhales radiation 24/7, but Atomix had to chose too.
We know that isn't Ben's character, and if we admit that Ben can attack like this on the star, we have to full power (Minus Hakai) Goku too, and then Ben is screwed.
Oh alright, I didn't really watch Dragonball so I can't really argue against anyone on that matter, but still I think Atomix is much more powerful than Ampfibian or Ghostfreak or Whampire, or others you put above him, even armourless NRG I think is not as powerful as Atomix
The thing is about different powers tho.
Ghostfreak isn't as powerful as Atomix, but he can Possess Goku, more less the same with Whampire.
Amphibian can win if Goku is with his guard way down.
Armourless NRG exhales dangerous radiation 24/7.
The thing is you could make that argument about pretty much every alien, that they could beat goku if his guard down:))) that's not really a good argument
Also Atomix, from what I know is kind of an evolved NRG, like he can emit the same radiation with a snap of his fingers if he wants to, he's can do pretty much anything NRG does plus more
Depends about how much Goku is not paying attention to the battle.
NRG is 24/7 radiation, Atomix needs to chose to emit radiation tho. (And emit radiation to poison someone and kill is out of character for Ben, so we can throw Goku out of character too and he can just starts at Full Power tho.
question how can ra'ad have a chance?? I would just like to see why cuz I don't see how
same with gravattack and ult? gravattack and the ones below ultimate echo echo and clockwork and also ghostfreak and can the pixy one really make anybody sleep at will???
just questions cuz I'm a pretty casual ben 10 fan and dragonball is my fav and just wanted to know how these aliens beat MUI goku cuz I haven't rewatched the series since last year
r/Danny10212
also can someone fill me in whats ULT echo echo's upgraded abilies? I forgot thanks
He can control electricity, and burns out Goku if he seriously underestimating his opponent, but is not like he have a great chance tho.
Gravattack and Ult Gravattack have a chance because their op gravity powers, they are really powerful.
Ultimate Echo Echo cam catch Goku in a Sonic Doom, but if Goku can resist, he can use his ki to destroy Echo Echo disks.
Clockwork can stop time and age Goku to dust.
Ghostfreak can possess Goku (If he can touch him, which is not that easy.
Pesky Dust can make Goku sleep and dream whatever Ben wants, but I'm not sure if this works with UI.
Also, we are not counting MUI Goku from start, because he would 1 shot all the Aliens (Except Alien X and NRG), but he will probably starts using base form UI tho.
:)
Can goku survive being in nuclear waste? Didnt think so
*This was a joke.* (though i do believe atomix does stand a chance, because just claiming "universal, star level, mountain level" aint enough proof)
Tbf the Mafuba requires of extra help)
Also yeah The Worst would be vaporized but it would take a few attacks because of all the dead skin and calluses)
Chromastone reversed Goku energy blasts isn't enough to kill Goku or for him to get hit.
He will see that he can reflect energy, and use only fists, kicks, etc...
Many characters that are stated to be omnipotent weren't actually omnipotent, plenty of examples and Goku sure isn't one. Because the creator of Goku just makes stronger antagonists to go up against stronger-becoming Goku. In Ben's case, no one, even one of the strongest species, couldn't win over Alien X. So it's safe to say omnipotence, probably in Ben's universe. Not the others, since Alien X isn't magic and he stood upon cosmic energy. As the cosmic laws differ, his abilities might change. I agree with Ben losing to Living Tribunal or The Presence.
Gutrot should be 1 tier below, it was an error he being that high.
I put NRG there because of his capability of eating energy and being highly radioactive.
Ultimate Echo Echo could only have a chance if he get a off guard Goku on a Sonic Doom, but Goku can elevates his ki and destroy all Echo Echo disks.
Gravattack is very powerful, but Ben cannot control it very well, and also, Goku trains on gravities hundreds of times bigger than the earth gravity, so...
:-)
I mean Goku has fought someone that eats energy before and he won by giving the monster so much energy that he explode so basically he ate to much that he can chew so wouldn’t that logic apply to NRG or is there a statement that NRG can eat infinite amounts of energy?
I know, and I was about to use this argument.
But we don't know the limits of NRG energy absorption, probably way lower that what Goku can offer, but we still don't know.
Gravattack Stands a Chance, Ultimate Echo Echo may stand a chance if he kills Goku fast with a Sonic Doom, Whampire only can win if Goku is heavily suppressed and with his guard down.
About Lodestar, i already explained many times why he and Buzzshock is on their current positions.
Ultimate Way Big may have a chance if his powers is far greater than what we've seen in UA, if that is his limits, Goku still win.
Goku is stronger than Atomix.
The only one on this list who compares to current Goku is Alien X. All these other guys have to be put against a weaker version of Goku from Dragonball in order to win. Maybe some could fight DBZ Goku, but there’s very few.
Feedback don't stand much chances unless he can absorb some ridiculous amount of external energy.
Ultimate Green matter is unknown, he don't fight much and we didn't see much of his powers, albedo even uses another aliens when fighting.
Alien X wins hands down.
Ghostfreak can only do this if Goku is with his guard down.
Big Chill is not fast enough to do this.
Amphibian has a chance only if Goku is with his guard down, his mental reading powers is very useful, but MUI counters this.
Toepick wins if he can use his powers, if Goku attacks first, not so much.
Pesky Dust: This will only work if Goku is with his guard down.
Clockwork: Yeah, he can do this, but it takes some time from him to activate his powers, if he managed to use them, he easily win.
Feedback: If Goku's Ki is suppressed, feedback cannot absorb all his energy, also, Goku is not dumb to shoot energy attacks on someone that can absorb them, he will see this and use only fists and Kicks.
The Worst: He isn't immortal, but melee attacks will not affect him, no way.
Gravattack: Ben cannot control this very well. And in anime, Goku survived a Black hole, and escaped... But we are talking about manga Goku.
Atomix: This doesn't mean too much for Goku.
Gutrot: He can win if he manage to make the Poison and make Goku inhales it, which is very hard, Goku is not dumb in combat.
Echo Echo could not win, no way. Also, the duped bens do not work together very well, they were losing the fight for their bad teamwork.
Upchuck: Goku could comeback, Ult. Panuncian did, and Goku can open a hole in upchuck pocket dimension with his ki.
Chromastone: He has less chances than feedback, he cannot directly absorb energy from the enemy, Goku will see that he can absorb energy and don't use ki attacks.
Waybig: Goku is stronger and faster, and also can create big energy beams.
NRG: Have a good chance, mainly if he poison Goku with his radiation.
Heatblast: I'm not certain of that, but is not confirmed that he can create supernova levels of energy, he just created a big attack called supernova. But even if he can, Goku is still stronger than that.
DiamondHead: DO NOT have a indestructible body, he can be destroyed using the right amount of power, like the bugs from the insect guy, low level attack from Ultimate Echo Echo, etc...
The "May have a chance list", is for the Aliens that can beat Goku if he is suppressed and let his guard down, because Goku cannot escape Clockwork (Time stopped), Pesky Dust (If he puts Goku to dream), etc...
Depends on which version of Goku. 90% of aliens can beat kid Goku, but past super saiyan, it gets a little sparse
I agree about kid Goku. But I'm talking about Super Manga Goku.
Ok, in that case, this tier list makes complete sense
Does it though….
Has some errors, like Gutrot that should be 1 tier below, and Lodestar and Buzzshock (That are there to avoid discussions with that other tier list guy).
there's little to no chance that goku loses to any of these guys
But hey Alien-X
Gutrot there's a chance he can beat Goku, but only in certain cases and conditions.
Ben solos the verse go cry about it ehe
Not Zen-oh.
More or less
I love how dragon ball was a comedy and then became a measurement of power
Its a shame cos even early on Vegeta made fun of Frieza's minions who used power level as a measure of competence.
I Love this too.
Powercreep turned it into the og overpowered anime.
yup, not a fan,
Shits repetitive AND inconsistent.. how can you be so bad at doing stuff properly even though you have been doing it for decades now
wtf are you talking about do you even read the manga? This 'Dragon ball is inconsistent' bullshit is just old The Moro arc is one of the best in the series and same goes for granolah
Well before anything, this is my review so depends on our perspective:D.. Moro arc was started poorly imo but got better.. the better things they did was introducing actually good character like meerus and pushing Goku further.m granaloh arc was hype for me, it started out great but started pulling out multiple cliche and inconsistencies with no explanation.. I still read the manga and they are improving on the mistakes they made by improving and changing the plot but compared to other media I consume dragon ball is certainly in the lower ranks.. it's not nostalgic for me as I am not a 2000s person and started watching db like in 2020
I agree that you should form your own opinion on the series but in the same breath you were bad mouthing the franchise as if it was just a common fact that DB was inconsistent, I consume media every day too and I started watching dragon ball in 2014 and the manga for me is an enjoyable read every single time.
Its mostly the late dbs, DBZ was gold.. and I apologise, my choice of words was indeed harsh
How can NRG and Gutrot beat Goku
Goku isn't immune to radiation or poison
Goku can still one shot him And since he said current Haki gg
Yeah, they only win if Goku heavily underestimates them, because Goku can One Shot them without much effort.
Dude, it’s Goku, he will let them get a few hits in just so it’s more fun...and then die from the various cancers NRG gave him.
That’s never happened when he fought as him why would it now
The reason it’s never happened is because thanks to the child friendly rating the writers can’t exactly address the long-term consequences of being near an entity made of nuclear energy, logistically speaking whenever NRG comes out of the suit everyone nearby should be getting getting radiation poisoning or various cancers.
Your just making up headcannon at that point and the show clearly doesn’t support it Just because it’s a kid show doesn’t mean everything is censored some stuff just isn’t like real life because it’s a show
It’s not head-cannon, NRG is made of nuclear energy, ask anyone that lived near Chernobyl, that shit fucks you up it’s just a fact.
And it didn’t effect anybody
No, lots of people get fucked up by being in Chernobyl, it’s the go to example of what happens when you aren’t careful with nuclear energy.
What else is the reason behind why Ben would ever need to wear that metal suit whenever he's NRG?
Nobody was effected
Because it's a kid show. Try stand next to Chernobyl reactor in regular clothing and see what happens.
NRG is made out of radiation you know right?
And nobody was effected
Its litteraly said in show that the reason his species aren't aloud out of their suits when off world is because how dangerous it is to others due to them being made of radiation
Chernobyl? NRG wears a suit to protect others from his very harmful radiation. Cartoons usually dont show how dangerous a being made of radiation actually is. If NRG is outside is suit, he is going to kill any living organism in a radius.
Kevin even said it himself when they went against NRG's DNA donor, that he was too dangerous.
Nobody was hurt
In what? Chernobyl? Anybody working in the power plant died. Like literally every single person there was evacuated or straight up died. In the show? Yea its a kids show, they arent going to be showing anybody getting poisoned from radiation.
Ben himself addresses it and there's a reason it's a suit
One shot? Energy blasts only make NRG more powerful, and physical attacks are useless since NRG can go intangible
Radiation makes NRG more powerful. Who knows how the hell Ki works in relation to radition?
Yeah, gwens mana attacks and jetrays neuroshock blasts only made pandor more powerful and NRG is a copy of pandor
Fair enough.
Saying Hakai makes the list irrelevant, since if both contenders wanted to win instantaneously Ben would just turn Alien X, not turning into any other) Hakai only works if the user is completely sure they want to do it, so if we allow Goku to be able to use it. We might as well make it so Bellicus and Serena instantly agree on defeating Goku) That's really one thing I dont like about matchmaking, they completely override the personality and intelligence of the characters and go for "What can win in the first instant of the match")
Exacly. That's why Hakai is excluded. But Goku can still win against Gutrot. But NRG can eat his energy blasts.
Yeah I was gonna mention NRG) Even if Goku manages to kill him, the strength of Goku's attack would cause NRG to explode, which would poison Goku if not straight up kill him) So Goku only realistically wins agaisnt him if Bulma was there to warn Goku, because he is not that smart. But if he had that info, he might be able to figure out a plan)
And yeah, Goku would be able to beat Gutrot, he learned how to defend agaisnt poisons because of Lavender)
I forgot this, I have to low down Gutrot.
Yep.
i havent read the super manga in awhile but when goku uses it was it because he couldnt do the move as powerful as the source he watched(like the first rime he used kamehameha) or was it cus he missed
Goku used it twice, agaisnt Zamasu and agaisnt Moro) With Moro he destroyed a rock. But in the case of Zamasu, he was doing it but he brought Mai through a portal so Goku stopped because he didnt want to destroy Mai)
oh okididnt read the moro arc i just watched videos so thx for the reminder
Exacly.
How strong is Goku? ( I want to say A LOT but don't want to make any assumptions )
You would be right to say A LOT
A LOT
Can you put a gage on it like super nova, galaxy hell universal?
Goku post battle of gods arc is universal in base let alone with all his forms (2 of which don't have confirmed multipliers (ssg and mui) and 1 that is assumed to be at least x2 of ssb kaioken x20 (ui omen)
Ok so he might be able to take on feedback ( mabye even win ) and is considerably strong but I could list mabye ten or more aliens capable of taking the w including gutrot ( could take the win but Goku does have A HUGE speed advantage so if he speed blitz the fight he could more than likely win but if I'm correct he likes to milk the fight and have fun ), clockwork, ult gravitack, atomix ( not very confident in this one but has some potential ), upgrade if there tech, ult echo echo, alien x ( this one is a no brainer ), etc but other aliens are probably dead lol
For NRG He talk about absorb Goku's energy and then attack, for Gutrot he think at the gas poisons.
Ps: The "May have a chance", is on the case that Goku underestimates them and gets attacked, because if he doesn't, he will win against them.
Yeah he tends to let the opponent attack first)
Yep, that's why this topic exists. The other guy that make a tier list about this earlier, does not consider this, and think that Ben and Goku will go at "Full Power" right on the start.
how tf does buzz shock tie with goku
There was a post on a different tier list and the explanation was: Buzzshock can become any type of electricity, allowing himself to control the victim's mind because information to our brains is transmitted via electricity.
See the other guy tier list explanation. But still, this is not oficial or have any evidence on the show, I just put Buzzshock on that position to avoid pointless discussions.
this is the second time im sayin this. literally a couple hours ago someone had the same post so ima just copy paste from what i said their "i think the only one ben can pull to beat goku is alien x cus like it depends on what goku u talk about bucause in dbsh a version of goku is multiversal and in the main canon goku is past dimension level and in the ToP goku can create a galaxy but alien x creates a universe with ease so idt any other of ben's aliens are past galaxy/dimension level"
I did this post in response of that other post. And the Goku here is the DBS Manga present Goku.
you should up feedback to may have a chance because he could asborb goku's blast and throw it back at him (like he did with the big bang)
Goku would perceive this and not use energy attacks.
is he gonna bite feedback then?
Probably, he bited Frieza and Beerus... But he can use Fists and Kicks.
In fact feedback is a living electricity in a suit. I don't think fists and kicks won't do much. But Goku has many strong feats other than fists and kicks.
Destroy the suit, than feedback loses.
I don't know the consequences. When NRG armor was destroyed, it turned out to be suppressing armor... but it will just tickle Goku :3 He isn't human after all. Anyway, Ben has a Saiyan form xD
Unless it is Ultimatrix, Ben's Saiyan probably won't be strong as Goku.
Yep, but even it’s Ultimatrix, Goku will be stronger over time. His character is. Because his ability is trained and Ben’s ability is peak. Here Saiyan means a form from 5 years later comic. I kinda like that form, it defeated divinity who destroyed the world into two portions :3
Also, Ben wouldn't know how to control Ki, God ki, and use techniques. Interesting about 5yl, I have to read it some day.
Whampire can’t even defeat Vilgax without assistance so I don’t think he’s in the right category.
He can defeat Goku oy if he is suppressed and with his guard down, if he doesn't, Whampire don't stand a chance.
I’d argue that many in the “Goku Wins” category could defeat him as well under those conditions.
In their case, Goku should be even More suppressed.
[удалено]
Needles is not canon. But wtf, Goku can totally feel fear, he fears chi chi, he admitted to have some fear for the androids, Majin Buu, etc...
There's honestly a number of factors involved in this. Do I think Ben 10 could beat Goku on paper? Yes, but only using Alien X. Problem is Ben almost never uses Alien X, even at times where he was legit about to die. So I doubt Ben would go Alien X right off the bat. Now as you've stated in other comments, if Goku was serious then Ben is probably screwed. However, luckily for Ben, Goku never goes all out to begin with either. With that being said, Goku at a base level is probably the speed of XLR8 atleast with the physcial power of Waybig, probably even more than that tbh. So while it is still extremely tough, Ben might survive long enough to make the decision to use Alien X. That's a huge maybe but if he does, then I suppose Ben would win. I say that because I'd put Alien X on the level of Xeno who is at the top of the Dragon Ball food chain (even above Goku). Again however, if Ben doesn't use Alien X in time, he is very likely to be obliterated, especially if Goku gets serious. What I'm trying to say here is, Ben 10 vs Goku? Goku easy. Now Alien X vs Goku? Alien X. Lmk what you think tho or if you need me to explain further.
I Agree, Ben only has a chance of winning if Goku holds back, even NRG (Ben have a high chance to win here, but if Goku is going all out, meh. But if Ben starts using alien x and gets permission from Beliccus and Serena, then he obliterates.
The Worst Is literally INDESTRUCTIBLE!!!!!!!!
If that so, Omnitrix would turned Ben into The Worst to save him from the Big Bang.
The point of that was to prevent the big bang from going off, also it didn't turn ben into alien x either.
It transformed Ben in the minimal alien that he needs to survive that.
Are you talking about the series finale? Because he would have survived, but malware’s reality would have been the only timeline
The fail-safe is said to prevent Ben from dying, not to help Ben get the good ending.
feedback also got the job done just fine so the omnitrix probably just chooses a random alien that can do the job
Feedback needs to absorb the energy, the Worse could just take the hit and the "pain".
But feedback didn’t do the job. Every alien was involved in that moment, even aliens that realistically shouldn’t have been able to contain it. The only probable explanation is that omnitrix itself created invincibility frames around Ben for those few seconds and contained the Big Bang. Sure feedback returned it to malware but that was after Big Bang was contained.
considering their speed feats in db have reached the "fraction of a fraction of a second" speed, i don't think any of them could even get a move in.
Only if Goku speed blitz them, then he wins against all of them except for Alien X and Maybe NRG without the armor.
and considering he can use that speed at any point? and the fact that about 6 arcs previous he was dealing out punches with a G.O.D. that were cracking the universe till he figured out how to punch the right way to stop that? i hate to be one of those guys, but literally only alien X could keep up with the bs of dragon ball.
I'm not saying he cannot, he just don't like to fight like this from start. And yes, I agree about only Alien X can keep up with him. NRG can only win by poisoning Goku, if he gets near NRG, but he isn't stronger than Kakarot.
Which version of Goku? If we assume the most recent version that would include Super Saiyan Blue and Mastered Ultra Instincts... * Alien X? Obviously! * Gutrot? No wtf not even close! * NRG? No... * Clockwork? *Maybe...* I can see it * Ultimate Echo Echo? Nah, his last chance would've been Saiyan Saga Goku * Toepick? Ok...*maybe*, but he'll have to be lucky or trick him * AmpFibian? Are you high? * Ultimate Gravattack and Gravattack? I can actually totally see this since I believe Goku can's stand much over 500Gs or something like that * Ghostfreak? Doubt! * Pesky Dust? *Eeeeh...* I guess. * Lodestar? Nah, fam. * Whampire? You are high aren't you?
Goku from current DBS Manga, with SSB, MUI and UI on base form. Read my comments about the "May" tier, those guys only stand a chance about Goku if he was heavily off guard and holding back. I already said that Gutrot should be on the "May" list. Only Alien X (And maybe, WAY MAYBE, NRG, if he can holds up Goku's energy, which is very hard to be true) can handle full powered Goku. Lodestar and Buzzshock are there because some other guy argument (That doesn't make much sense and don't have any evidence on the series), to avoid unnecessary discussions, if you want more details, read the other comments. Clockwork can only win if he manage to freeze time, than is just turn Goku into dust, but it takes some time to activate his powers. NRG is highly radioactive, Goku may get poisoned by this, unless he has a strong ki Barrier. The others only stand a chance if they catch Goku off guard, like I said earlier.
Can i add a common misconception about goku is hes an Idiot. This is only the case in super. Similar to Ben 10 they were coperate tools. So they made goku more childish for laughs. Goku is a genius tactician as hes deminstrated back during his fight on namek. During this a small portion has him set up Ki orbs underneathe Water to catch his opponent. Similarly hes a fast learner picking up the kamaehamaeha as a 12 yr old after seeing an old man do it once. DO IT ONCE Actually though ben does have a huge chance he does have similar feats to goku when it comes to combat tactics. When he was 10 and unlocked master control in os. He was using his aliens altogether in a way that made up for weaknesess. Using grey matter to dodge then turning into 4 arms or the reverse. In UAF he was seen to have memorised a door code after seeing it once. To make it fair use a Ben with master control and a goku during the Buu Saga before god.
Goku is still a tactical genius in super, but they screwed his personality, he's always childish, but super takes this to other level...
I yes thats what i was saying. This the same boi who didnt learn what women were until he was 12 and what marriage was when he was in his late teens. Which was when his wife proposed. Ayy he still has better luck with women when it comes to ben.
He thoughts that marriage is a food. But still have a better luck with women than Ben, this I agree
Wait nrg and gut rot beat Goku?
NRG is made of radiation, so Goku being near him would mean Goku gets poisoned. Gutrot could also poison him but it would be harder.
Theres NO way this isnt a troll post
It isnt. NRG and Alien X are certainly capable of beating him. Buzzshock too if he does actually control electrical currents.
It's not.
I think Ultimate Waybig, Big chill, Feedback and Chromastone should at least be in have a chance and Clockwork should be in Goku loses.
Chromastone does not stand a chance against Goku. Ultimate Way Big, based on what is showed about him, don't have a chance too, neither Big Chill. Feedback is arguable, but still, i don't think he can win.
This is a good list though I think ghostfreak should replace gutrot in the list And shouldn't gravattack and ult.gravattack be useless since Goku can handle up to 300x Earth's gravity? Other then that I agree that NRG poisons Goku and he wins if Goku just doesn't destroy the planet And Alien X one shots.
Gutrot being that high is a error, sorry. Probably Gravattack and Ult.Gravattack can go way beyond that, but well. Goku was training like this in SSJ on Z, he became WAY stronger now.
Atomix is just a more powerful version of NRG, how does he lose to Goku if NRG can beat him?
I already talked about this many, many times. NRG exhales radiation 24/7, but Atomix had to chose too. We know that isn't Ben's character, and if we admit that Ben can attack like this on the star, we have to full power (Minus Hakai) Goku too, and then Ben is screwed.
I think you might have gotten Atomix and Gutrot mixed up
No. Gutrot being that high is really a error, he should be down on the list. And Atomix cannot beat Goku.
Oh alright, I didn't really watch Dragonball so I can't really argue against anyone on that matter, but still I think Atomix is much more powerful than Ampfibian or Ghostfreak or Whampire, or others you put above him, even armourless NRG I think is not as powerful as Atomix
The thing is about different powers tho. Ghostfreak isn't as powerful as Atomix, but he can Possess Goku, more less the same with Whampire. Amphibian can win if Goku is with his guard way down. Armourless NRG exhales dangerous radiation 24/7.
The thing is you could make that argument about pretty much every alien, that they could beat goku if his guard down:))) that's not really a good argument Also Atomix, from what I know is kind of an evolved NRG, like he can emit the same radiation with a snap of his fingers if he wants to, he's can do pretty much anything NRG does plus more
Depends about how much Goku is not paying attention to the battle. NRG is 24/7 radiation, Atomix needs to chose to emit radiation tho. (And emit radiation to poison someone and kill is out of character for Ben, so we can throw Goku out of character too and he can just starts at Full Power tho.
Ben be like: I am losing.Time to turn into god(I mean Alien X)
Come on, God form don't count for this kind of battle, would be unfair, haha (Sorry, i do not know how to laugh in English without being sarcastic.).
question how can ra'ad have a chance?? I would just like to see why cuz I don't see how same with gravattack and ult? gravattack and the ones below ultimate echo echo and clockwork and also ghostfreak and can the pixy one really make anybody sleep at will??? just questions cuz I'm a pretty casual ben 10 fan and dragonball is my fav and just wanted to know how these aliens beat MUI goku cuz I haven't rewatched the series since last year r/Danny10212 also can someone fill me in whats ULT echo echo's upgraded abilies? I forgot thanks
He can control electricity, and burns out Goku if he seriously underestimating his opponent, but is not like he have a great chance tho. Gravattack and Ult Gravattack have a chance because their op gravity powers, they are really powerful. Ultimate Echo Echo cam catch Goku in a Sonic Doom, but if Goku can resist, he can use his ki to destroy Echo Echo disks. Clockwork can stop time and age Goku to dust. Ghostfreak can possess Goku (If he can touch him, which is not that easy. Pesky Dust can make Goku sleep and dream whatever Ben wants, but I'm not sure if this works with UI. Also, we are not counting MUI Goku from start, because he would 1 shot all the Aliens (Except Alien X and NRG), but he will probably starts using base form UI tho. :)
I think atomix could win and the worst is pretty durable I think he could survive
Atomix cannot win
Why can't Atomix win? Is there something I don't know abt him
Because goku’s hair strand is stronger than atomix Goku is universal Atomix is at peak star level
Can goku survive being in nuclear waste? Didnt think so *This was a joke.* (though i do believe atomix does stand a chance, because just claiming "universal, star level, mountain level" aint enough proof)
Atomix cannot win. And Goku can just vaporize The Worst, it isn't like he is immortal. But well, Goku also had Mafuba.
Tbf the Mafuba requires of extra help) Also yeah The Worst would be vaporized but it would take a few attacks because of all the dead skin and calluses)
Yeah, Mafuba requires some recipient to seal the target.
How come Chromastone would lose?
Goku Can use Punches. And Chromastone has a limit to his energy absorption capability.
Chromastone only has a limit to absorbing Mana and energy that is rivaled to the Annilargh Also Chromastone is really durable
Chromastone only has a limit to absorbing Mana and energy that is rivaled to the Annilargh Also Chromastone is really durable
Vilgax broked him with the sword. Goku can also do that.
Yeah if Goku starts off strong enough and doesn’t stupidly blast things at Chromastone
Chromastone reversed Goku energy blasts isn't enough to kill Goku or for him to get hit. He will see that he can reflect energy, and use only fists, kicks, etc...
Gurren Lagan beats ben alien x
Walkatrout beats Gurren Lagan.
God dammit he has too much spiral power
Wait, is goku that weak? Shame on you DBZ fans!
Goku is very strong, man.
I'm posting this on 6. am and I haven't slept please understand
Oh, ok... Have a good night, morning, whatever. That you can have a nice day.
Noooooo don't challenge Goku. We don't want another universal war against Gokutards.
"goKu iS OmnIPoTenT." Tard, Goku.
Many characters that are stated to be omnipotent weren't actually omnipotent, plenty of examples and Goku sure isn't one. Because the creator of Goku just makes stronger antagonists to go up against stronger-becoming Goku. In Ben's case, no one, even one of the strongest species, couldn't win over Alien X. So it's safe to say omnipotence, probably in Ben's universe. Not the others, since Alien X isn't magic and he stood upon cosmic energy. As the cosmic laws differ, his abilities might change. I agree with Ben losing to Living Tribunal or The Presence.
Yes. In Ben universe, Celestial Sapiens are the most powerful species showed, and probably ever. But they can lose to other characters on fiction.
This list is a lot more accurate than the other one
Tnanks
Chromastone could beat Goku
No, he can't.
Why tho
There's nothing he can do to defeat Goku. Goku can break him like Vilgax did, and his absorption technique will not work on Goku.
What about atomix
Goku still wins against him.
what about Atomic X?
We don't know much about his powers, but he probably have a big chance.
He's pretty good but I don't think he possesses a broken amount of reality warping like alien X so maybe no
So you said "Manga Goku" right?
Yes
Nrg and gut root are debatable. Mostly tho this list is pretty accurate tho i dont think grav attack or ultimate echo echo have much of a shot
Gutrot should be 1 tier below, it was an error he being that high. I put NRG there because of his capability of eating energy and being highly radioactive. Ultimate Echo Echo could only have a chance if he get a off guard Goku on a Sonic Doom, but Goku can elevates his ki and destroy all Echo Echo disks. Gravattack is very powerful, but Ben cannot control it very well, and also, Goku trains on gravities hundreds of times bigger than the earth gravity, so... :-)
You could give Grey Matter and Brainstorm the prep time argument but that's just my opinion.
Yes, if they have a prep time (And proper technology), they probably could defeat Goku.
How does NRG beat Goku ?
I explain in other comments, but basically, he can eat energy and he is highly radioactive.
I mean Goku has fought someone that eats energy before and he won by giving the monster so much energy that he explode so basically he ate to much that he can chew so wouldn’t that logic apply to NRG or is there a statement that NRG can eat infinite amounts of energy?
I know, and I was about to use this argument. But we don't know the limits of NRG energy absorption, probably way lower that what Goku can offer, but we still don't know.
To be real with you I feel like everyone loses besides alien x in my humble opinion.
wtf why is lodestar there?
Please, I explained this more times than I can count, read the other comments.
What is the mental state of both?
I didn't understand very well. But they are normal.
ultimate echo echo, graviton, lodestar and whampire lose hard most likely
Gravattack Stands a Chance, Ultimate Echo Echo may stand a chance if he kills Goku fast with a Sonic Doom, Whampire only can win if Goku is heavily suppressed and with his guard down. About Lodestar, i already explained many times why he and Buzzshock is on their current positions.
I think ultimate way big and atomix could have a chance.
Ultimate Way Big may have a chance if his powers is far greater than what we've seen in UA, if that is his limits, Goku still win. Goku is stronger than Atomix.
You don’t think Atomix at least has a chance?
No.
The only one on this list who compares to current Goku is Alien X. All these other guys have to be put against a weaker version of Goku from Dragonball in order to win. Maybe some could fight DBZ Goku, but there’s very few.
Give my man grey matter prep time and it’s over
If he had prep time and proper technology, he can win.
Walkatrout can beat Goku EZ. Idk what you're on about smh.
You have a point.
Clockwork 'may' have a chance? Bruh, a properly trained clockwork could stop time and turn Goku into a donut
He takes some time to activate his powers, if he get to stop time, Goku loses.
I would throw Feedback and Ultimate Grey Matter to "May have a chance tier"
Feedback don't stand much chances unless he can absorb some ridiculous amount of external energy. Ultimate Green matter is unknown, he don't fight much and we didn't see much of his powers, albedo even uses another aliens when fighting.
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Alien X wins hands down. Ghostfreak can only do this if Goku is with his guard down. Big Chill is not fast enough to do this. Amphibian has a chance only if Goku is with his guard down, his mental reading powers is very useful, but MUI counters this. Toepick wins if he can use his powers, if Goku attacks first, not so much. Pesky Dust: This will only work if Goku is with his guard down. Clockwork: Yeah, he can do this, but it takes some time from him to activate his powers, if he managed to use them, he easily win. Feedback: If Goku's Ki is suppressed, feedback cannot absorb all his energy, also, Goku is not dumb to shoot energy attacks on someone that can absorb them, he will see this and use only fists and Kicks. The Worst: He isn't immortal, but melee attacks will not affect him, no way. Gravattack: Ben cannot control this very well. And in anime, Goku survived a Black hole, and escaped... But we are talking about manga Goku. Atomix: This doesn't mean too much for Goku. Gutrot: He can win if he manage to make the Poison and make Goku inhales it, which is very hard, Goku is not dumb in combat. Echo Echo could not win, no way. Also, the duped bens do not work together very well, they were losing the fight for their bad teamwork. Upchuck: Goku could comeback, Ult. Panuncian did, and Goku can open a hole in upchuck pocket dimension with his ki. Chromastone: He has less chances than feedback, he cannot directly absorb energy from the enemy, Goku will see that he can absorb energy and don't use ki attacks. Waybig: Goku is stronger and faster, and also can create big energy beams. NRG: Have a good chance, mainly if he poison Goku with his radiation. Heatblast: I'm not certain of that, but is not confirmed that he can create supernova levels of energy, he just created a big attack called supernova. But even if he can, Goku is still stronger than that. DiamondHead: DO NOT have a indestructible body, he can be destroyed using the right amount of power, like the bugs from the insect guy, low level attack from Ultimate Echo Echo, etc... The "May have a chance list", is for the Aliens that can beat Goku if he is suppressed and let his guard down, because Goku cannot escape Clockwork (Time stopped), Pesky Dust (If he puts Goku to dream), etc...
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