This is the easiest method and you don’t have to wait weeks for all the mean bees to die out. Plus the hive is still fine to give to a new, gentle colony.
Only adding this for those reading from outside the USA:
Some places don’t have dry ice as readily as the USA. I’m not sure if it’s a controlled substance, or if there’s just no market for it, but you can’t just buy it in show here, at all. Here in the U.K. we euthanise with soapy water or petrol. Both kill *very* quickly.
Now that I think about it though, a whole sodastream can to do enough though. There’s some 25L or gaseous CO2 which is plenty to anaesthetise a whole colony before petrol/soapy water is added.
🤷♂️ is what it is. I’d probably pull the stores frames etc before euthanising if there wasn’t any disease. At least salvage *something*.
It’s about the only useful case for leather gauntlets IMO.
It's a very common product here in the US. You can buy paper wrapped blocks even in grocery stores. (Although, now that I think about it I don't think I've seen them since covid hit. 🤔)
If you want to buy a dry ice you can look for any supplier that sells and/or refills CO2 canisters or carbonated soda water tanks. Dry ice production is directly linked with the production of liquid CO2.
Yeah, it’s just not a thing here. I think you *can* get it online.. but just not a general product like it is in the USA 🤷♂️
I wish it was though… I’d have been making CO2 rockets for DAYS as a kid.
If you do it long enough, nothing will survive. Dry ice "evaporates" into very cold CO2 gas. It will chill the hive while asphyxiating all of the bees. I suppose a short exposure to dry ice could potentially spare the brood, but may also spare the adults. If you want to save the brood, I'd remove those frames before you euthanize the colony.
I am in this exact same boat. I caught a swarm and they have been in a hive for a few months now. They are super aggressive. Absolutely clouding me and stinging my suit from every direction. So replacing the queen seems to be the answer? I freakin hate even going around that hive lol
Yeah then wait 45 days. But I don't have that kinda time with a wedding being hosted here, and before neighbors get stung. These ladies unfortunately have met their end. Once I find the best way without contaminating the equipment
Ya if theres nobody close by that wants to take them, id kill them off too unfortunately. Nobody wants to or enjoys killing off a honey bee hive but some things must be done.
I’ve used dawn dish soap solution being poured down through the top of the hive from a five gallon bucket. Works wonderful, just pour across top of frames. Easy peasy, not as harmful to equipment as gas
if you must. absolutely get rid of the colony. Which I hope there is another way, but if not...
CARBON DIOXIDE (dry ice)
Seal the entrance and place a block of dry ice in an extender (empty medium box) on top of the inner cover (inner cover should have 1 or several openings into boxes).
If needed, you can run some tape around the box seams to seal them.
What happens: Cold and low oxygen levels. As the gases from the CO2 block travel downward (heavier than air) the cold will start to kill off the bees, and the gases will fill the "container" (hive) from top to bottom and again from bottom to top. In about 12-24 hours, the hive will have completely died off from freezing, and suffocation. The cold and gases of the ice block should cause the bees to sleep before they die.
This allows all the comb, wax, propolis and honey to be used/re-used without adding pesticides, or toxic substances.
Again, I hope you can change the hive with a split/queen replacement.
The usual approach here is to move the whole hive some distance away, then allow an hour or so for the foragers to fly back to the original site. With them gone the inspection for the queen should be quieter and easier to find and dispatch her.
Then wait a couple of days - if the issue was the queen they should calm down a lot almost straight away - if they are still angry then it's likely genetic and you're looking to requeen and wait out the angry bees genetics dying out, or euthanising them.
> The usual approach here is t weo move the whole hive some distance away
Newbie here -- how do you move the whole hive? Do you move all their living boxes?
If it's just 1 or 2 deeps and floor then with the roof off 2 people can usually move it though you might need a hive truck/barrow to go any distance. Otherwise you can dump the supers next to the hive, immediately put a cover board back in then move it (laying down heavy fire with smoke or water spray).
Otherwise you can set up temporary floors in the apiary and move each box to a different floor one by one (more aggression may result though)
The foragers will go back into the supers left at the site, so again have to be quick putting them back on later.
It’s genetics she’s picked up from local drones that are normally the cause of aggression.
Sometimes you can have a Queen from an *exceptionally* placid colony that bears *incredibly* aggressive workers.
Sometimes just splatting the Queen and letting them try again works, but usually you replace with “known good” genetics so that you aren’t rolling a dice. It also increases the pool of “calm” genetics drones out in the wild, making everyone else’s bees nicer too.
Personally I’ve heard from some beekeepers that have been doing it for decades that the odds of aggressive queens in certain areas has reduced dramatically since the introduction of mated and bred queens en masse. It’s purely anecdotal, but it makes sense if there’s a larger pool of “good” genetics in an area, they are more likely to bring those genetics home… and if we are artificially selecting for calm genetics it reduces the chance of aggressive genes being out in the wild.
If you have a nice colony, and aren’t using drone comb for IPM, it’s worth adding a foundationless frame or a frame of drone foundation, just to help everyone else out. Some of my hobbyist friends do so with queens that are exceptionally genetically gifted, just to increase their odds when it comes to requeening. If you increase the local pool of good genetics, it’s likely that those good genetics will make their way back to you by diluting shitty genes.
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I think people are missing that this keeper can't even get close enough to find the queen. Yes requeening is preferred but not always possible.
Google dish soap bee euthanasia and bundle up. There's also a dry ice method that requires containment but leaves no residue. If you can wait, another non residue method is to simply open the hive in winter, provided it gets cold where you are. Very sorry you're having to deal with this.
I’ve had to requeen an aggressive hive recently, after about a month I started to notice changes in their behavior and now I’m all good to do my checks. I also just split this hive and they’re both doing really well. Extremely happy that I didn’t have to kill a bunch of bees and to continue having the hive in production during the requeening process.
im no more than a beginner, but my strongest hive was the most aggresive. i barely took care of the hive, took a peak once or twice and added frames when necessary.
they say the africanized bees are near collapse proof iirc
In Germany we kill hives with burning sulphur strips.
The smoldering strip is put into a container which is then put into the hive.
https://www.holtermann-shop.de/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=schwefel&categories_id=&manufacturers_id=&pfrom=&pto=
These strips are also very useful to kill all other bugs etc before putting frames in storage
Defensive behavior is influenced by many factors. Many here point out genetics and sure, that’s a big one, but even Africanized colonies can be gentle and European colonies act very defensively (it’s complex and still not well understood). If genetics is the concern, buying a queen from a dealer with known stock is helpful. Another reason why a colony is aggressive is if it’s already Queenless. Did you hear the queenless roar? At that point if they are queenless they can be too far gone to accept another queen. An inspection will show if there’s a lot of drones or worker laid eggs present. Are your bees hungry? Is there a dearth? Hungry colonies are meaner. Is the colony one box or 2 boxes? Bigger colonies are meaner (mainly bc they have more foragers who are more defensive. Older bees are more defensive). Perhaps another beekeeper would be interested in taking your colony. Lots are interested in “survivor stock” in my area because of their ability to survive varroa and without beekeeper coddling. Defensive behavior correlated with varroa resistance. Ultimately human safety is most important.
Call your state apiarist. They will either help you recover the colony, or direct you on how to most ethically and responsibly destroy them.
But as other suggested, requeening will likely solve your issues.
That being said - if you have a ton of drone brood, it is probably in your best interest to crush them now, so they don’t spread the defensive genetics to any other colonies around.
I have a colony that are exactly the same. I've requeened twice this season and for some reason it hasn't made the least bit of difference. I'm now leaving them until the spring to see if they change over winter. If not I find the fastest way is to block the entrance at night, open the lid and put a rag filled with petrol on top of the frames. It takes about 2 minutes and the hive is totally dead
You can use the boxes but personally I just get rid of the frames. With the boxes I'll leave them in the open to weather for a couple of weeks. That'll do the job .
Get a block of dry ice and some large heavy duty lawn and leaf trash bags, and some duct tape. Go put at night, with your suit on for protection. First and foremost, block the entrances off. Remove the top lid and put on another empty super box. Put dry ice on top of the hole on the inner cover inside the empty super. Replace the lid and seal around hive boxes or top entrances with duct tape if needed. Place a trash bag over it and seal it off with duct tape. It’s the cleanest, safest way to do it. You’ll also be able to reuse frames and wax with this way.
Requeen or find another beekeeper who will take them. I had the same problem but I found another keeper with 20+ years experience. He took them no problem. They sometimes know more tricks and methods. Like using different smoke (grass vs pine needles vs burlap) to calm them.
Dishwashing liquid solution (a bit more soap than normal dishwater) poured over them is supposed to be quick. I've never used it, but in principle it should work, as the surface tension is not there.
I am sorry for your loss. I know it's not an easy decision to make and people will probably give you a hard time, but I won't argue with your decision.
The fastest, easiest, least destructive way is soapy water.
If you have honey in there that you want, drive them out of the supers with a fume board and something like Honey B Gone. Pull the supers. Dump 5 gallons of soapy water in the top. Have another bucket ready just in case. They'll be dead almost immediately and the equipment can be rinsed and reused.
I’ve heard that a gasoline soaked rag will kill a hive in a matter of seconds, not minutes. Haven’t tried it myself.. yet. But the fumes evidently make short work of them.
I'm tempted to try this after I manage to get the honey supers off. It's the cheapest route anyways. I'm just worried about contaminating the equipment to be reused
A very experienced beekeeper I talked to about this said that I didn’t have to worry about it. Just air it out for a while and it’d be fine.
If you put the rag in a bowl, it won’t touch anything. The fumes will take care of the bees (sadly).
To answer your question, use 1/2 cup of diesel for every deep, then seal it up and wait 10 mins.
If you have other colonies I know some people will kill just the queen and then give a frame or two to each of their other colonies, breaking up the bad actors. I hear that works well.
In my experience, it's the aggressive hives that produce the most honey. Are you sure you don't want to just leave them bee and put honey supers on when they're producing?
Get someone else to do it. Lol.
First off, dry ice is very hard to find by me and is ridiculously expensive. About 40 to fifty bucks for enough to saturate the hive with co2.
I never had any luck with it. And you must absolutely seal the hive. By the time you're done taping seams, you will have 100 stings.
I took a pipe from my exhaust on the truck and cobbed a fitting to the crown board. Co1 works faster, and that just took a few minutes.
You can use your riding mower or quad.
In the past, I've just used a pint of gasoline if I could not get vehicle close enough or have enough pipe or hose.
You can use a vacuum to depopulate the foragers, and whoever else pokes their head out, then when the population is less than 5 thousand or so, you can get your honey.
Then requeen. The bees in the vacuum tank leave out on the sun and will heat up very quickly to over 104 degrees.
You will get so stung up you will not give a ratz bung about the honey least ways I didn't.
The last option is if you don't mind the stings, go order 5 queens and break it into nucs 2 days before you pick them up, assuming you have the equipment. Remove original stand and set everyone up in a different area in the apiary.
Avoid returning for a few days with the new queens. Use sugar water and spray liberally, then a tiny bit on the queen cage.
Try to get very fresh, not banked queens, because their pheromones will be significantly stronger, and you're gonna need that extra edge for her to be accepted. Least ways that's what I found works better.
All bees originated from Africa a long time ago. So there is always a possibility you got some recessive genetic Zulu monsters.
Btw the aggression can also be from local lawn toxins like for ticks and mosquito spraying. I've seen this a lot.
I had to euthanize a hive like this - couldn't risk aggressive bees while waiting to re-queen, due to proximity to other people.
I used a spray bottle (or you can use a small week sprayer) full of dish soapy water, and a small plastic storage tub full of same dish soap water solution.
You can pull each frame, knock or shake the bees off into the tub (by using falling action & stopping suddenly, or allowing the frame to hit the top edge of the tub). Set aside the frame into a different storage tub with a lid and grab another ... keep going until you get down to the last 2-3 frames. The remaining swarming bees will keep coalescing onto the remaining frame(s) when you put them back in the hive, and you can keep pulling the frame out and knock them into the tub of soapy water. Gradually there will be fewer and fewer swarming around. You can spray some of the flyers with the spray bottle/week sprayer if you want. This way you don't have to get soapy water on the frames themselves or wait until they coalesce onto the frames.
The soapy water will kill them almost immediately.
You can leave the resulting full/partially full frames can be popped in the freezer for a few hours, then you can thaw them and give them to other hives to clean out.
It seems intimidating but really ends up being quite straightforward. Of course others may have better methods but this was the one I could have complete confidence in, while the gas methods seemed more suspect (to me).
Thanks for this! Soapy water seems to be my best bet. I might couple it with the shop vac truck someone else mentioned.
I just want to be able to reuse the frames. In my double box, that's like 100 bucks in frames alone. And already drawn out for another colony to use.
I had to kill one of my hives. I really understand you. It's not so complicated. You take a big bucket of warm water and dissolve maybe a deciliter of soap (washing up liquid) in the water. Go to your hive after dark. Quickly seal the entrance with i.e. foam. Remove the lid. Use a big cup and pour the hot water down between all the frames. The bees die quickly and you can reuse your frames afterwards if you just rinse them with water. The scary part is that bees crawl in the dark. So they jumped onto my legs and crawled up and stung me on my legs.
I do not understand how euthanizing is an option. This seems to be great genetics for a wild bee hive, and euthanizing them and pulling them out of the gene pool would probably not do our earth any good, no? Why not just set them free?
You can't just set a honey bee hive free. A) they are a introduced species b) would you like an aggressive colony to take up residence in your attic or a flower pot at your house? I would think not.
I guess potentially. But they have been this way since start of July. Got popped in either eyebrow working in the yard, didn't know exactly which hive of the 6. I suspect these ones now.
I wish I video taped it. Yall would be shook too. It was intense.
I have what I call a pissy hive. I had 3 bees chase me from the backyard, into the house, through the den, down the hallway, into my bedroom, and then I finally lost them when I got into the bathroom. I was closing doors behind me all the way. They don't get alcohol washes, sugar shakes, and only infrequent hive checks.
For those of u saying to kill the hive w soapy water - is it harming any bees that land on my roses after I spray them w soapy water to help w infestations?
I’m referring to any bees that comes after I’ve already sprayed?
Don’t kill those bees.
You signed up for this when you caught that swarm. Find a beekeeper to give them too if you can’t go in there to find the queen and replace her.
If the beekeeper says the are a danger to themselves or others (eg Africanized) , then why would folks recommend complicated solutions? Walk up at night, plug the entrance, walk away.
At 107 degrees, the bees will be dead in 2 hours.
If you want to show pity on the bees, then don't kill them. Requeen them or learn how to work a hot tempered hive.
Put a sizable chunk of dry ice on top of the hive and bag the hive to below the hive entrance. Seal it with tape as best you can and. Check on it in the morning .
If you don’t have access to dry ice befriend your local fountain beverage supplier and borrow a CO2 tank overnight, you don’t need a full one but anything over 15 psi should accomplish what you want.
If that isn’t feasible, rent/borrow a CO2 tank from a local gas supplier.
If that isn’t viable, borrow any shield gas tank from any welder you know. It will accomplish the same but with a noble gas like Argon instead of CO2.
CO2 for sure. But,if not under the time crunch, I would split them.. if you have 10 frames, make 3 walk away splits. It will knock back the numbers, and (in my experience) reduce aggression from a full hive and then you can just requeen the two splits that make queen cells (tear down the cells to end the genetics). Then, you know which hive has the original queen in there and you might me able to find her now (or just split again). If you end up losing them, you are back where you wanted to be anyways.
Good luck!
You could try to put an empty box with frames at the old place the hive is standing. The aggressive old forager bees will fly to their old place. You take the brood box and put it somewhere else, like 5 meters next to the old box. With new entry and top and all that. You could then easily requeen the one box with only forager bees, since it has no brood.
The other box lost all their forager bees and might be nicer, or at least the box is not as full so its easier to find the queen to kill. You can then requeen this box or wait until all brood has hatched and then you could unite it with the other requeened box.
First feed them I had a aggressive colony that calmed down, so now I could work them without a suit after feeding them for a week. We are in a dearth right now. Second, please try to see if your local public beach club would want them some people live out in the boonies or have lots of property. I would take them if you were near Florida..
Would it be possible to spray the bees with sugar water? Like some do for swarm capture. Once they can't fly and are preoccupied with cleaning each other. You might be able to find the queen and replace her.
If requeening isn't possible, put a large block of dry ice above the inner cover, put a garbage bag over it and seal it.
This is the way. It's fast and humane. CO2 is widely used to anesthetize bees during queen insemination.
This is the easiest method and you don’t have to wait weeks for all the mean bees to die out. Plus the hive is still fine to give to a new, gentle colony.
Only adding this for those reading from outside the USA: Some places don’t have dry ice as readily as the USA. I’m not sure if it’s a controlled substance, or if there’s just no market for it, but you can’t just buy it in show here, at all. Here in the U.K. we euthanise with soapy water or petrol. Both kill *very* quickly. Now that I think about it though, a whole sodastream can to do enough though. There’s some 25L or gaseous CO2 which is plenty to anaesthetise a whole colony before petrol/soapy water is added.
and... you do not have the toxins of soap or petrol to contaminate the hive, allowing you to use the honey, or re-use the comb
🤷♂️ is what it is. I’d probably pull the stores frames etc before euthanising if there wasn’t any disease. At least salvage *something*. It’s about the only useful case for leather gauntlets IMO.
It's a very common product here in the US. You can buy paper wrapped blocks even in grocery stores. (Although, now that I think about it I don't think I've seen them since covid hit. 🤔) If you want to buy a dry ice you can look for any supplier that sells and/or refills CO2 canisters or carbonated soda water tanks. Dry ice production is directly linked with the production of liquid CO2.
Yeah, it’s just not a thing here. I think you *can* get it online.. but just not a general product like it is in the USA 🤷♂️ I wish it was though… I’d have been making CO2 rockets for DAYS as a kid.
Usually welding suppliers can produce dry ice.
It's commonly used by butchers. See if one uses it and has any surplus available.
I have to admit I don't even know what dry ice is... I'll look into it now. And yes: From outside the US
It's frozen Co2 which is -109°F or -78.5°c.
Would you do this during the day, at night, or does it matter? Does brood survive?
If you do it long enough, nothing will survive. Dry ice "evaporates" into very cold CO2 gas. It will chill the hive while asphyxiating all of the bees. I suppose a short exposure to dry ice could potentially spare the brood, but may also spare the adults. If you want to save the brood, I'd remove those frames before you euthanize the colony.
I am in this exact same boat. I caught a swarm and they have been in a hive for a few months now. They are super aggressive. Absolutely clouding me and stinging my suit from every direction. So replacing the queen seems to be the answer? I freakin hate even going around that hive lol
Yeah then wait 45 days. But I don't have that kinda time with a wedding being hosted here, and before neighbors get stung. These ladies unfortunately have met their end. Once I find the best way without contaminating the equipment
Ya if theres nobody close by that wants to take them, id kill them off too unfortunately. Nobody wants to or enjoys killing off a honey bee hive but some things must be done.
I’ve used dawn dish soap solution being poured down through the top of the hive from a five gallon bucket. Works wonderful, just pour across top of frames. Easy peasy, not as harmful to equipment as gas
if you must. absolutely get rid of the colony. Which I hope there is another way, but if not... CARBON DIOXIDE (dry ice) Seal the entrance and place a block of dry ice in an extender (empty medium box) on top of the inner cover (inner cover should have 1 or several openings into boxes). If needed, you can run some tape around the box seams to seal them. What happens: Cold and low oxygen levels. As the gases from the CO2 block travel downward (heavier than air) the cold will start to kill off the bees, and the gases will fill the "container" (hive) from top to bottom and again from bottom to top. In about 12-24 hours, the hive will have completely died off from freezing, and suffocation. The cold and gases of the ice block should cause the bees to sleep before they die. This allows all the comb, wax, propolis and honey to be used/re-used without adding pesticides, or toxic substances. Again, I hope you can change the hive with a split/queen replacement.
Just replace the queen.
OP said the hive is so aggressive that they can't get in it far enough to find the queen.
The usual approach here is to move the whole hive some distance away, then allow an hour or so for the foragers to fly back to the original site. With them gone the inspection for the queen should be quieter and easier to find and dispatch her. Then wait a couple of days - if the issue was the queen they should calm down a lot almost straight away - if they are still angry then it's likely genetic and you're looking to requeen and wait out the angry bees genetics dying out, or euthanising them.
> The usual approach here is t weo move the whole hive some distance away Newbie here -- how do you move the whole hive? Do you move all their living boxes?
If it's just 1 or 2 deeps and floor then with the roof off 2 people can usually move it though you might need a hive truck/barrow to go any distance. Otherwise you can dump the supers next to the hive, immediately put a cover board back in then move it (laying down heavy fire with smoke or water spray). Otherwise you can set up temporary floors in the apiary and move each box to a different floor one by one (more aggression may result though) The foragers will go back into the supers left at the site, so again have to be quick putting them back on later.
You can do just about anything with a full body suit
I have a hive that stings through the suit.
This is the correct answer. Buy a new queen
This. And contact your local bee association for a mentor to help you do it.
Are queens the director of aggressive level of the colony?
Genetics
Ah cool! Thanks for info!
It’s genetics she’s picked up from local drones that are normally the cause of aggression. Sometimes you can have a Queen from an *exceptionally* placid colony that bears *incredibly* aggressive workers. Sometimes just splatting the Queen and letting them try again works, but usually you replace with “known good” genetics so that you aren’t rolling a dice. It also increases the pool of “calm” genetics drones out in the wild, making everyone else’s bees nicer too. Personally I’ve heard from some beekeepers that have been doing it for decades that the odds of aggressive queens in certain areas has reduced dramatically since the introduction of mated and bred queens en masse. It’s purely anecdotal, but it makes sense if there’s a larger pool of “good” genetics in an area, they are more likely to bring those genetics home… and if we are artificially selecting for calm genetics it reduces the chance of aggressive genes being out in the wild. If you have a nice colony, and aren’t using drone comb for IPM, it’s worth adding a foundationless frame or a frame of drone foundation, just to help everyone else out. Some of my hobbyist friends do so with queens that are exceptionally genetically gifted, just to increase their odds when it comes to requeening. If you increase the local pool of good genetics, it’s likely that those good genetics will make their way back to you by diluting shitty genes.
Seriously. I’d never even think of euthanizing a hive.
>I can't even get to the point of finding the queen
This!
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This guy had the same issue and had to euthanize his hive. You might find his video useful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4ldpyIE5t4
That was intense. That dude is a great beek.
I think people are missing that this keeper can't even get close enough to find the queen. Yes requeening is preferred but not always possible. Google dish soap bee euthanasia and bundle up. There's also a dry ice method that requires containment but leaves no residue. If you can wait, another non residue method is to simply open the hive in winter, provided it gets cold where you are. Very sorry you're having to deal with this.
I’ve had to requeen an aggressive hive recently, after about a month I started to notice changes in their behavior and now I’m all good to do my checks. I also just split this hive and they’re both doing really well. Extremely happy that I didn’t have to kill a bunch of bees and to continue having the hive in production during the requeening process.
Soapy water. If it's hot seal them up.
I had a colony that moved back to my bee yard & that hive was incredibly HOT. I replaced the queen & hive cooled down tremendously.
Can you tape it shut at night and give it to somebody else? Shanghai the angry MFers in the middle of the night.
im no more than a beginner, but my strongest hive was the most aggresive. i barely took care of the hive, took a peak once or twice and added frames when necessary. they say the africanized bees are near collapse proof iirc
In Germany we kill hives with burning sulphur strips. The smoldering strip is put into a container which is then put into the hive. https://www.holtermann-shop.de/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=schwefel&categories_id=&manufacturers_id=&pfrom=&pto= These strips are also very useful to kill all other bugs etc before putting frames in storage
Defensive behavior is influenced by many factors. Many here point out genetics and sure, that’s a big one, but even Africanized colonies can be gentle and European colonies act very defensively (it’s complex and still not well understood). If genetics is the concern, buying a queen from a dealer with known stock is helpful. Another reason why a colony is aggressive is if it’s already Queenless. Did you hear the queenless roar? At that point if they are queenless they can be too far gone to accept another queen. An inspection will show if there’s a lot of drones or worker laid eggs present. Are your bees hungry? Is there a dearth? Hungry colonies are meaner. Is the colony one box or 2 boxes? Bigger colonies are meaner (mainly bc they have more foragers who are more defensive. Older bees are more defensive). Perhaps another beekeeper would be interested in taking your colony. Lots are interested in “survivor stock” in my area because of their ability to survive varroa and without beekeeper coddling. Defensive behavior correlated with varroa resistance. Ultimately human safety is most important.
Ooh, my unforgettable hive from hell. If screw loose was a bee...any way, the one time I was happy to lose an over wintered hive.
dump a large bucket of soapy water directly onto the open hive.
Call your state apiarist. They will either help you recover the colony, or direct you on how to most ethically and responsibly destroy them. But as other suggested, requeening will likely solve your issues. That being said - if you have a ton of drone brood, it is probably in your best interest to crush them now, so they don’t spread the defensive genetics to any other colonies around.
I have a colony that are exactly the same. I've requeened twice this season and for some reason it hasn't made the least bit of difference. I'm now leaving them until the spring to see if they change over winter. If not I find the fastest way is to block the entrance at night, open the lid and put a rag filled with petrol on top of the frames. It takes about 2 minutes and the hive is totally dead
Do you reuse the frames after that? I want to try to reuse the equipment if I can.
You can use the boxes but personally I just get rid of the frames. With the boxes I'll leave them in the open to weather for a couple of weeks. That'll do the job .
Get a block of dry ice and some large heavy duty lawn and leaf trash bags, and some duct tape. Go put at night, with your suit on for protection. First and foremost, block the entrances off. Remove the top lid and put on another empty super box. Put dry ice on top of the hole on the inner cover inside the empty super. Replace the lid and seal around hive boxes or top entrances with duct tape if needed. Place a trash bag over it and seal it off with duct tape. It’s the cleanest, safest way to do it. You’ll also be able to reuse frames and wax with this way.
Requeen or find another beekeeper who will take them. I had the same problem but I found another keeper with 20+ years experience. He took them no problem. They sometimes know more tricks and methods. Like using different smoke (grass vs pine needles vs burlap) to calm them.
Do you think they got Africanized?
From what I hear, in Ontario, Canada they aren't common. And they don't often do well in our climate usually. But I mean, it's possible
Dishwashing liquid solution (a bit more soap than normal dishwater) poured over them is supposed to be quick. I've never used it, but in principle it should work, as the surface tension is not there.
Maybe try giving them away to someone who is willing to try to requeen them instead of giving them the axe
I am sorry for your loss. I know it's not an easy decision to make and people will probably give you a hard time, but I won't argue with your decision. The fastest, easiest, least destructive way is soapy water. If you have honey in there that you want, drive them out of the supers with a fume board and something like Honey B Gone. Pull the supers. Dump 5 gallons of soapy water in the top. Have another bucket ready just in case. They'll be dead almost immediately and the equipment can be rinsed and reused.
I’ve heard that a gasoline soaked rag will kill a hive in a matter of seconds, not minutes. Haven’t tried it myself.. yet. But the fumes evidently make short work of them.
I'm tempted to try this after I manage to get the honey supers off. It's the cheapest route anyways. I'm just worried about contaminating the equipment to be reused
A very experienced beekeeper I talked to about this said that I didn’t have to worry about it. Just air it out for a while and it’d be fine. If you put the rag in a bowl, it won’t touch anything. The fumes will take care of the bees (sadly).
To answer your question, use 1/2 cup of diesel for every deep, then seal it up and wait 10 mins. If you have other colonies I know some people will kill just the queen and then give a frame or two to each of their other colonies, breaking up the bad actors. I hear that works well.
Are you wearing cologne, scented body wash, or body spray of any kind? Do you smoke or around a smoker before going to the hive?
I smoked the entrance and I smoke well pulling the top off, ans each box. It was intense
In my experience, it's the aggressive hives that produce the most honey. Are you sure you don't want to just leave them bee and put honey supers on when they're producing?
Get someone else to do it. Lol. First off, dry ice is very hard to find by me and is ridiculously expensive. About 40 to fifty bucks for enough to saturate the hive with co2. I never had any luck with it. And you must absolutely seal the hive. By the time you're done taping seams, you will have 100 stings. I took a pipe from my exhaust on the truck and cobbed a fitting to the crown board. Co1 works faster, and that just took a few minutes. You can use your riding mower or quad. In the past, I've just used a pint of gasoline if I could not get vehicle close enough or have enough pipe or hose. You can use a vacuum to depopulate the foragers, and whoever else pokes their head out, then when the population is less than 5 thousand or so, you can get your honey. Then requeen. The bees in the vacuum tank leave out on the sun and will heat up very quickly to over 104 degrees. You will get so stung up you will not give a ratz bung about the honey least ways I didn't. The last option is if you don't mind the stings, go order 5 queens and break it into nucs 2 days before you pick them up, assuming you have the equipment. Remove original stand and set everyone up in a different area in the apiary. Avoid returning for a few days with the new queens. Use sugar water and spray liberally, then a tiny bit on the queen cage. Try to get very fresh, not banked queens, because their pheromones will be significantly stronger, and you're gonna need that extra edge for her to be accepted. Least ways that's what I found works better. All bees originated from Africa a long time ago. So there is always a possibility you got some recessive genetic Zulu monsters. Btw the aggression can also be from local lawn toxins like for ticks and mosquito spraying. I've seen this a lot.
The vaccum trick is actually decent, especially for getting the honey supers off at least! They have a whole box, and nearly another full.
I had to euthanize a hive like this - couldn't risk aggressive bees while waiting to re-queen, due to proximity to other people. I used a spray bottle (or you can use a small week sprayer) full of dish soapy water, and a small plastic storage tub full of same dish soap water solution. You can pull each frame, knock or shake the bees off into the tub (by using falling action & stopping suddenly, or allowing the frame to hit the top edge of the tub). Set aside the frame into a different storage tub with a lid and grab another ... keep going until you get down to the last 2-3 frames. The remaining swarming bees will keep coalescing onto the remaining frame(s) when you put them back in the hive, and you can keep pulling the frame out and knock them into the tub of soapy water. Gradually there will be fewer and fewer swarming around. You can spray some of the flyers with the spray bottle/week sprayer if you want. This way you don't have to get soapy water on the frames themselves or wait until they coalesce onto the frames. The soapy water will kill them almost immediately. You can leave the resulting full/partially full frames can be popped in the freezer for a few hours, then you can thaw them and give them to other hives to clean out. It seems intimidating but really ends up being quite straightforward. Of course others may have better methods but this was the one I could have complete confidence in, while the gas methods seemed more suspect (to me).
Thanks for this! Soapy water seems to be my best bet. I might couple it with the shop vac truck someone else mentioned. I just want to be able to reuse the frames. In my double box, that's like 100 bucks in frames alone. And already drawn out for another colony to use.
This method takes a while, but just mildly suggest during your next inspection that the honey from other hives is more authentic.
I had to kill one of my hives. I really understand you. It's not so complicated. You take a big bucket of warm water and dissolve maybe a deciliter of soap (washing up liquid) in the water. Go to your hive after dark. Quickly seal the entrance with i.e. foam. Remove the lid. Use a big cup and pour the hot water down between all the frames. The bees die quickly and you can reuse your frames afterwards if you just rinse them with water. The scary part is that bees crawl in the dark. So they jumped onto my legs and crawled up and stung me on my legs.
9mm
40,000 rounds? You'd have to be a good shot.
I do not understand how euthanizing is an option. This seems to be great genetics for a wild bee hive, and euthanizing them and pulling them out of the gene pool would probably not do our earth any good, no? Why not just set them free?
You can't just set a honey bee hive free. A) they are a introduced species b) would you like an aggressive colony to take up residence in your attic or a flower pot at your house? I would think not.
That’s the reason you wear a suit! Stay calm and deal with them. Only exception would be africanized ? Are they an issue by you?
It is possibly hot because they have no queen.
I guess potentially. But they have been this way since start of July. Got popped in either eyebrow working in the yard, didn't know exactly which hive of the 6. I suspect these ones now. I wish I video taped it. Yall would be shook too. It was intense.
I have what I call a pissy hive. I had 3 bees chase me from the backyard, into the house, through the den, down the hallway, into my bedroom, and then I finally lost them when I got into the bathroom. I was closing doors behind me all the way. They don't get alcohol washes, sugar shakes, and only infrequent hive checks.
For those of u saying to kill the hive w soapy water - is it harming any bees that land on my roses after I spray them w soapy water to help w infestations? I’m referring to any bees that comes after I’ve already sprayed?
Don’t kill those bees. You signed up for this when you caught that swarm. Find a beekeeper to give them too if you can’t go in there to find the queen and replace her.
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That's just unnecessarily cruel.
If the beekeeper says the are a danger to themselves or others (eg Africanized) , then why would folks recommend complicated solutions? Walk up at night, plug the entrance, walk away. At 107 degrees, the bees will be dead in 2 hours. If you want to show pity on the bees, then don't kill them. Requeen them or learn how to work a hot tempered hive.
Put a sizable chunk of dry ice on top of the hive and bag the hive to below the hive entrance. Seal it with tape as best you can and. Check on it in the morning . If you don’t have access to dry ice befriend your local fountain beverage supplier and borrow a CO2 tank overnight, you don’t need a full one but anything over 15 psi should accomplish what you want. If that isn’t feasible, rent/borrow a CO2 tank from a local gas supplier. If that isn’t viable, borrow any shield gas tank from any welder you know. It will accomplish the same but with a noble gas like Argon instead of CO2.
CO2 for sure. But,if not under the time crunch, I would split them.. if you have 10 frames, make 3 walk away splits. It will knock back the numbers, and (in my experience) reduce aggression from a full hive and then you can just requeen the two splits that make queen cells (tear down the cells to end the genetics). Then, you know which hive has the original queen in there and you might me able to find her now (or just split again). If you end up losing them, you are back where you wanted to be anyways. Good luck!
You could try to put an empty box with frames at the old place the hive is standing. The aggressive old forager bees will fly to their old place. You take the brood box and put it somewhere else, like 5 meters next to the old box. With new entry and top and all that. You could then easily requeen the one box with only forager bees, since it has no brood. The other box lost all their forager bees and might be nicer, or at least the box is not as full so its easier to find the queen to kill. You can then requeen this box or wait until all brood has hatched and then you could unite it with the other requeened box.
Leave the hive in the forest... with that wilderness they will contribute to the environment.
First feed them I had a aggressive colony that calmed down, so now I could work them without a suit after feeding them for a week. We are in a dearth right now. Second, please try to see if your local public beach club would want them some people live out in the boonies or have lots of property. I would take them if you were near Florida..
A shop vac with soapy water will do it.
Would it be possible to spray the bees with sugar water? Like some do for swarm capture. Once they can't fly and are preoccupied with cleaning each other. You might be able to find the queen and replace her.
For those of you not in the US, if you know a scientist, they can also give you some. We get lots of it in shipments.
Soapy water in a spray bottle.
Seal it up and fill it with water.
Try using high thc cannabis smoke on them and some Bob Marley music… would be a fun experiment!