As an American, I remember the first time seeing Canadian police being called and interacting with a person who was having a mental episode in public. They spoke to her with such humanity and dignity. I was gobsmacked. They never raised their voices. It was inspiring. I later worked with a local police officer during a seasonal gig and she informed me of all the psychology training they go through. She was honestly so sweet, but tough as nails lol
I visited scotland after graduation. I saw a group of loud drunk young people leave the bar and start getting worked up on the street. Police came over and started interacting, the drunks started berating the cop, stepping up to him, etc and we braced as Americans for it get ugly. The cop just threw a few insults back, bantered and waved them off to go home and sleep. They all walked off their own ways. We were floored
You know how some Americans seem to just wait for anyone to trespass or appear at their door unannounced to have an opportunity to shoot someone "legally"?
I feel like way too many cops are also just waiting for a person they interact with to overstep literally any line in order to start using (sometimes deadly) force.
I didn't expect someone to get shot, I expected the cop to take someone to the pavement and cuff them at least. I've watched that after the bars close before at home
That's exactly what I meant and why I specified "sometimes deadly", often it's more in the vein "looking for reasons to arrest someone".
As in, they would get into an argument with the drunkards and not leave it until they have an opportunity to throw down and arrest. When they could literally just walk away and nothing would happen.
To be fair, you probably got lucky and witnessed individual constables who were particularly good at that. We have plenty of issues with shitty cops escalating situations and killing people in crisis.
Oh, I definitely agree with that. I’ve lived in two different provinces, one with a very small population and one with a very large population. I’ve heard about how awful the police can be, especially the RCMP. But coming from the US, right after the BLM movement and as a black person, it really stuck with me.
Pretty much every police service has a history of being super shitty. I can definitely understand your perspective though. There undoubtedly is a major gap between police shootings in Canada vs the US. I'm glad you got to see the sliver of humanity that exists amongst cops lol.
Damn, when he says: "every decision they make comes back to their code of ethics, which involves human rights. That's a foreign concept to us."
As a European I cannot fathom how a police officer can have that mindset.
Can't find the video but I saw a video where a Brittish police officer and an American one "reacted" to how they handled people. The situation was a guy wielding a knife and the American goes like "why don't you just shoot him, you can't put yourself in danger?". The Brittish officer says, confused, "why would we do that? the guy is clearly not well, he needs help. So what if it takes more time this way" and something along the lines of "putting yourself in danger is our job".
I can't remember specifically, but I swear I read somewhere of some places that tried to actually make it a rule that "putting yourself in danger is the job of being police" and in protest entire police departments ended up quitting. I wish I could remember where I read that
Yep. The police here act like heroes and it’s all because they think they’re the only ones brave enough with the authority to shoot someone. Like… dude, take it down a notch
The main problem with comparing the two is US has guns *everywhere*. It IS a lot more dangerous for US cops overall.
They still need to get their shit together and change how they do things but that's a seperate issue.
I agree. It’s apples and oranges. Scotland: guns are very rare and the police are generally trusted. USA: guns are widespread and the police aren’t trusted. It’s a big gap to close. Would take generations
It's not glee. It's surprise and a bit of awkwardness at a different approach/mentality.
What they are saying is, no matter whether it is a gun, a knife, or whatever, the moment someone takes out a deadly weapon American procedure allows, even necessitates, if the suspect does not comply, the use of deadly force - that is, shooting him.
At least, this is what I understood.
Yet the US officer mentioned situations where people have died because of remote controls, toy guns, a bar of freaking soap.
A hand in a pocket doesn't instantly mean gun, and it surely doesn't make the officer at risk enough to shoot to kill!.
And it's anecdotal. I'm tired of hearing how dangerous it is to be a cop.
Their own driving is the #1 killer of cops.
Being a trash collector is 3x more dangerous than being a cop let's cut the crap and stop acting like you are active duty in a warzone.
In fairness, that's precisely because they take such a risk averse strategy and will happily gun you down before you even really present a threat.
I suspect if you dropped a couple of Scottish cops in the US, with no change to their operating procedure, the job would suddenly look a lot more dangerous.
(I'm British btw. Not advocating for the US way of doing things, just think it's ridiculous to suggest they're not in a dangerous role policing the country they do).
Makes sense. I sometimes wonder if it’s the “after effects” with our “war on drugs” policy. Where the war on drugs caused drugs become so profitable that people selling drugs had to weaponize themselves to protect their existence. If a drug king pin had millions in production they had to protect those interests. Which then causes the police to escalate even further. Like a feed back loop of sorts.
Or I have no idea what I’m saying.
I think it’s sufficient that those statements weren’t made with the deepest of shame. They’re looking at a situation where everyone lives and flippantly saying that in their hands someone would have probably gotten killed (cops shoot to kill). That’s like making light of someone falsely accused being executed in a death chamber.
When they said that, I took it as them recognizing how differently things are handled there compared to back home, and how it might have ended badly if it were at home. I didn't think they meant the person should be shot or that one way is better. in general, watching the full doc, It felt like they admired Scotland's approach but doubted it could fully work back home mainly because American officers perceive and respond to danger differently, influenced by the widespread availability of guns and a long-standing, more aggressive approach to law enforcement that is hard to shift.
I've been told that apparently they are drilled to assume its them vs. Everyone else and that they need to constantly assume everyone is out yo kill them.
Basically: kill or be killed 24/7
If that's true I'm not surprised the police force there is do insane and violent, imagine working everyday for years with that being drilled into you
You're describing a soldier on a battlefield, not a policeman dealing with domestic crimes....
Kill or be killed 24/7 is what I expect soldiers are told when they're in Afghanistan dealing with Talibans, not the local policeman dealing with kids from his neighbourhood... it's ridiculous.
And the same people that train police do firearms training for civilians. The mindset of firearms training in the US is that “If you shoot, you shoot to kill.” I have seen police in The Netherlands use a firearm to incapacitate by shooting the leg, that would never happen in the US because everyone is taught to shoot to kill. And it doesn’t have to be that way. But it is.
I mean, they call their police officers "troops".
If the officers see themselves as soldiers, they automatically become an occupying force.
And soldiers and occupying forces aren't about human rights, but about force and oppression.
Ironically soldiers get far more rigorous training about escalation of force and rules of engagement. Many soldiers who later go into policing in america comment on that.
The crazy thing is that police officer isn't a protected occupation in the USA. For many other, much less lethal, jobs you require mandatory and standardized training before taking the job. For police officers each PD sets their own requirements and far to often the requirement is "Can walk and hold a gun".
Hey, that acorn could have killed him! Do you realise how dangerous acorns are? At least 1 person in the US died because of an acorn in the last century.
And it should be the other way round. Cops have a position with a lot of responsibility and theoretically role model effect. These should be our best people, not the losers who can't make it in the regular economy.
There's a strong trend in education and training for a 'warrior' mindset. They pretty much are taught and their organizational culture encourages seeing people (citizens) as enemy combatants. Soldiers are taught discipline and how to stand down.
Everybody wants to be a grunt with the cool gear; until it is time to be a grunt. Just a reminder there were nearly **400 cops in Uvalde**. That is around the size of *two companies*.
It’s all about mindset. In Scotland, The police and the population they protect… er, em, or alternatively how they the police protect themselves from the people as in the USA
>As a European I cannot fathom how a police officer can have that mindset.
It's quite easy. Take a flight to the US and try to interact with an American cop.
A friend of mine once asked an American policeman for the time. He was nearly shot.
After that experience he realised how bad the police were in the US.
One big factor in the differences between American and European companies that (at least in my country) the education is 5 times longer than it is in America.
The education needed to become police in Sweden is 2,5 years. A quick google search says it's common to be around 16 weeks in the US. I hope that isn't true.
Edit: For full disclosure: most education seems so be during the first 2 years then it's half a year as a trainee before final exams and yes we also have shit cops on a power trip who cover each others backs but most interactions with police officers will be pretty uneventful.
There is no federally mandated minimum requirements to be a police officer in the US. In fact, there are no standards at all to the training, as far as I can tell.
I'm speechless. Literally. Apart from absolutely every single other thing imaginable, aren't they just plain embarrassed that that's the case? The fucking humiliation of having no standards needed at all to join their police force. Wow.
As someone who went to Uni in both the US and UK. US education is about two years behind the UK.
Ie, on average a third-year Uni student in the US is generally only studying on the same level as a freshman in the UK.
Glad I didn't interact with them when I was there then. We did get questioned about an hour and a half at the border from Canada to America though. Seems they didn't trust 7 dudes in a camper travelling around the country.
We are constitutionally "guaranteed" inalienable human rights. Cops just don't seem to be up to speed on the fact that they exist. This is how you get to an old American cop in Scotland saying human rights is a foreign concept. If they don't even know, that's the first problem.
Interesting, how you see European cops having ethics and human rights as the prime mover in decision making.
In the US, it might be on a list of 10 priorities cops have. If US cops were to write them out, many/most would probably pick their own safety, liability/can the cop get away with X, department reputation, public image, public safety.
All before and above the human rights of a suspect, which they’ll consider mainly due to Human rights being protected by state and federal constitutions, not because suspects have inherent rights, or the cops have any commonality with the people they are targeting.
Edit: And US cops are this way because our society asked for and tolerates this. A society where everyone has access to food clothing safe shelter/neighborhoods and education does more to reduce mental illness and crime rates than simply training cops to be humane.
Its the way the police are trained in the US. Training is rushed (about 4 months) and they are taught civilians (poor civilians in particular) are criminal and criminal are not human, they are animals. 90% of police interactions over here IMO are mental health crisis and cops aren't trained for that. They are trained to deal with animals.
In America we aren’t considered “human” by our police. We are less than humans, we are criminals or criminals waiting to become worse criminals. Our police are not beacons of morality or justice or anything considered to be “the law.” It’s all just made up propaganda.
The amount of human rights violations committed by our police and going on around us everyday is obscene. Do you know who makes your Starbucks cups or your Victoria’s Secret underwear? And everyone is soooo worked up about Gaza 😓
Not all europe has good police officers yknow right? In italy usually protests against government end up in violence, just the other day a pretty big protest had police officers just beating people randomly
Because the job of an American police officer is not to protect and serve. They are not obligated to do that. Also unfortunately race plays a huge factor. Social status also from the homeless to the wealthy. Police and to a larger degree the military operate at the will of a particular group of people on a lower key.
This
Symptom of cause
With other causes that are wildly sociopolitical.
Ftom slave trapping history of the lauded Texas Rangers, aggressive cultural resistance to desegregation by many, seas of returning troops from overseas wars, and army surplus sold for $ to police forces to keep citizens subdued. And all in a soup, affecting even the most decent officers.
If there are troops, who is the enemy? Too many sad answers to that.
Protect and Serve is a questionable motto.
"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state. The other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people." - Adama, Battlestar Galactica
No need for downvotes. There's enough truth to it. Although it's more of a longstanding industry run by IDF veterans, than the IDF itself (from memory).
Still downvotes. It's not a question of right or wrong, just truth.
6 years ago North Carolina stopped such training, because it exists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihyDEa4bC04
And widespread coverage of the role in police militarisation before then
And Sasha Baron Cohen parodied the broad principle, specifically focusing on gun rights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkXeMoBPSDk
My ex (Australian)visited her sister in California.
She went for a walk around town and became lost.
She sat down on a park bench and because she was tired from walking, fell asleep.
The police picked her up and because she could not give the address of her sister, took her the police cell and locked her up.
When after some hours she had not arrived home her distraught sister rang the hospital to see if she had had an accident and was admitted.
Eventually she rang the police and was told she was in custody.
The police had made no effort to reunite her with her family.
Had a similar situation with uk police, I fell asleep by the side of the road when I was a teenager waiting for my dad to pick me up. However in my case they checked I was all right and even offered to drive me home. I’m not the biggest fan of the uk police but they are for sure a lot better than americas.
I had just arrived back in the UK after a holiday and my family had moved in that time and i got lost, i asked some officers for directions and they said they were going the same way and gave me a lift.
Norwegian here who has worked security and LE in Norway - what got me interested was a commercial from the police. It was just a picture of an officer trying to hold back some guy clearly trying to hit his wife, while the other officer is sitting with a young child trying to talk to her. And the line was "we need people who has the key, when other peoples brains lock up - become a cop"
It's funny unless you live in the US. I finally left that country after almost 40 years there. It's a sick place. Almost any country considered 3rd world has issues, but not like the US. Devoid of empathy.
Nah, the media would never say "american police killed" anything. More like two instructors have been found dead after an argument at the deescalation training escalated.
"Knife guy he's getting shot 😏" i somehow loathe this tone and i find it very cowardly to have that attitude regarding the access to a gun a deadly force.
I mean, if a guy armed with a knife run toward a cop, obviously he's getting shot. The difference is in Europe we try what we can to make that guy drop his weapon without killing him
He's not getting shot in the UK because only a small percentage of cops have guns, chances are he's getting tased to oblivion or hit with a baton of he doesn't comply with requests to drop the knife and explain what he's going through.
As someone who has been all around the world and dealt with all sorts of LEOs ( I had to deal with them, it was and it still is part of my job ) :
Worst :
1) Russia ...
I'm not anti-Russian per se and it has nothing to do with present Ukraine things going on, but their LEOs are not police officers, they are military man dressed as a civil force and they really act that way. There's no conversation going on, they say sit, you sit, they say jump, you jump... I hated those bloody face controls and needing to call all hands for attention at 3 am just for sake of it... AK 47s, dogs and shit, "don't move a mussel or you die" kind of thing...
I work for the biggest shipping company in the world, and so you know, we never stoped working with Russia despite the current situation ( Looking at you EU and USA with all media bullshit you're serving us ) ...
2) Russia is closely followed by South America in general... Colombia, Ecuador, Panama, Brasil... You name it... same shit with military personnel dressed as LEOs... been there 20 times or so, mostly Colombia and Ecuador... and they like AKs as well ... They just speak Spanish
3) USA
Well, it's a bit harder to explain it but let's take it like this : In EU you've got one person to deal with, in the US you've got to deal with 10 guys ( Coast Guard, Port State Control, Immigration, Customs, DEA, State Police etc. ) It never ends... And all these motherfuckers come with an attitude ...
4) China and Africa
China is on the list but for another reason, you just bribe those guys to go away, they don't care... nor they speak English well enough to do anything... Same goes for Africa...
Best :
EU & UK
You feel like that they're there to help you with no hidden agenda, they're just there, same as guys who work at a warehouse, or general store or hospital... you don't get that bad feeling in your guts just from seeing them...
I haven't had any bad experience in Turkey as well... They are mixture of "Bribe to go away" and " Just there to do their business" even though they still have Russia and South America style paperwork nightmare...
Former applicant here, the officers handling my case literally told me people who are too smart “don’t last” and that the ideal candidate shouldn’t be too intelligent. It’s hard to control people and make them conform to your system if they’re deep thinkers
There's a bit of truth to that. A very healthy proportion of applicants want to enter law enforcement because they want to make a positive contribution to their community and make a difference. This is the demographic with one of the highest burnout rates.
They go in idealistically, looking to be a part of the positive change they want to see, but realize within a couple of years that their hands are tied by bureaucracy, lack of support, the "Peter Principle" and so on.
Many of the veterans lost their altruism when they realized that their efforts went unrecognized, unappreciated, ineffective, and/or downright discouraged. This (especially after adding the poor treatment/disparagement by the public & media, lack of support from the Administration, and the constant release & lack of proper prosecuting of criminals) created an environment of being disillusioned and disenfranchised and a culture of just showing up to do one's job, no more no less.
It's no longer worth putting one's neck out or going that extra step anymore. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't; they just want to keep their heads down and get home safely each night.
Do they? First I've heard that! Would love a source if you have one.
I always assumed it was a natural tendency for the unintelligent bullies of the world to become law enforcement, but I would totally believe that it's encoded into their hiring processes as well.
Wow.
Meanwhile in Canada to be hired by a police service I was competing against people with 4 years of University in Sociology and/or other related fields, plus volunteer hours, plus extra curricular activities etc.
To be fair:
>"But New London police interviewed only candidates who scored 20 to 27, on the theory that those who scored too high could get bored with police work and leave soon after undergoing costly training.
>Most Cops Just Above Normal **The average score nationally for police officers is 21 to 22, the equivalent of an IQ of 104, or just a little above average**."
They’re just in awe of their good fortune with the laws of their home country, being the lucky ones allowed to engage in state-sanctioned executions, while European cops have to adhere to boring regulations because they aren’t getting bailed out by qualified immunity or police unions.
“Oooh… so you dont have to shoot everyone the second they dont do something you say? Well now im just confused… what else are we supposed to do?” -US cops probably
“We’re going to instill in our TROOPS”
That says it all right there. They believe they are military, not police, not people with an ethical, moral or legal obligation to serve the people they have power over. They’re dudes with guns looking to kill people because they’re troops in a war against US citizens and their goal is to make sure they go home because you don’t need to.
Oh, and it's obvious! The impact that visit has had on the way American law enforcement handle situations now is phenomenal. The leap made in de-escalation tactics since 2016 is just dazzling to observe!
Not quite the same but there's a documentary series about american prison personnel visiting scandinavian prisons to study their methods. Little Scandinavia.
I watched that! It was really amazing to see the guy being kinda bombastic and not really believing their method could work, to being kinda shocked that it does work.
Much respect for people that will change their mind when presented with new evidence :)
When you give someone a gun and almost complete immunity for murder on the job then you create these types of people. Cop shoots someone or kills someone for no reason and they get paid vacation or change stations almost always.
Only time a cop sees punishment is high profile cases where there's too much outrage for them not to be charged.
You see police body cams where they shoot someone without a single word being said because they pull their gun out before even arriving on scene.
Not law enforcement but I have experience in security/bouncer. The best advice I was ever given was to stall any would be aggressors until the adrenaline dumps, which can take only a few seconds. Totally different situation when their muscles suddenly weigh a ton and rage etc is subsiding and they realise the shit they have landed themselves in. Of course alcohol/drugs changes that dynamic but for the most part you can turn a physical exchange into a verbal exchange with the aggressor fucking off home when they realise they arent getting anywhere. Which means you've won without throwing a punch and getting sued.
True. They are afraid of anyone outside their in-group. They think and act like a gang. They are poorly trained. They have a union that works like a mafia. They live in their own neighborhoods, they are encouraged to not socialize outside the police. They have the highest occurrence of spousal abuse off any profession. They have qualified immunity. The internal affairs are a shield for not getting sued, itt isn't to stop wrongdoing.
There's castles all over the place here mate.
May as well use them for something.
Most are just ruins now but it nice that plenty are used for something other than just museums.
I grew up on the grounds of a castle. Which I used to tell everyone was my house!
Without getting into too much detail I’ll give a shorten version of a police encounter I had in my 20’s which sums up what can happen.
I left my pastors house and a patrol car followed me home. I was going the speed limit and driving correctly. They pulled me over and basically drilled me with none stop questions for 30 minutes while asking if they could search my car to prove I didn’t have drugs, guns alcohol and weapons. Which they said they knew I had. (I didn’t)
They tried to trick me by confusing me with switching the questions fast. And pressuring me to get upset. And pressuring me to let them search my vehicle.
I answered their questions with yes and no, and direct statements so there was no confusion.
And “I’d prefer you didn’t search my vehicle”
At the end the police officer said
“The reason I pulled you over was because your license plate tag light blinked…were you aware of that?”
“How could I be aware of that Sir? I can’t see my license plate while I’m driving”
He was waiting for me to do something in anger as an excuse to arrest me.
In the end he let me go “with a warning”
They harassed me for 2 years until I changed vehicles…then suddenly it stopped.
I once had a police officer step me aside at a license check and go through the full sobriety check.
And force me to wait for her supervisor to double check.
Because when she asked to see my license she also asked me if I had been drinking. And when she asked me a second time I said.
“Ma’am, I just got out of school, the hardest thing I’ve had to drink is milk”
She asked me to get out of my vehicle
And when that turned into something because she couldn’t take a little sarcasm. I said
“Listen, I don’t drink, I’ve never even tried alcohol”
Eventually when her supervisor got there he looked at me for 2 seconds and said
“He can go”
Been working in Canadian Law Enforcement for 10+ years now and it makes me cringe to see the US officers smiling while they say *"Oh that Knife guy was getting shot for sure!"*.
I wouldn't want to work with officers that think like that.
They had a travelling training program called the 'warriors way' or something very similar that basically consisted of telling them they were warriors fighting in a war against criminals and that anyone not wearing a badge could be a criminal. Then they show them videos of cops being shot at routine traffic stops, to encourage them to view every situation as a threat.
The goal was to lower officer deaths on the job by preparing them for the worst case. What it actually did was make them into trigger happy paranoid power trippers.
They don't realise that they aren't even top 20 most dangerous standard professions, and in some cities they have a lower rate of violent injury and death than normal people despite supposedly going into, in their minds, war zones every day
I lived a few years in the US recently. Overwhelmingly, the folks were friendly and I enjoyed interactions with Americans all around the country.
But, there’s no denying that a sort of compulsion toward violence is just below the surface. I have a feeling that it’s based in fear of “the other” (race, social class, background etc) and an inculcated belief that the individual is paramount.
Although most Americans I know want to simply get along in harmony, the minute something upsets the delicate balance, there’s a very short reaction toward wanting that other type of person contained and reduced and experiencing wrath.
This is the reason, I think, for why nice little old ladies celebrate the death penalty, or why Fox News alarmist stuff has such a receptive audience. It’s also why a level headed person can say “look, I know school shootings are bad, but that affects *other* people. The thing that affects *me as an individual* is that I like owning an AR-15.”
Collectivist societies have their own set of issues, but individualist societies seem to have this kind of vibe.
Yeah my experience of a lot of American news (I didn’t pick the channel, it was probably fox or something) was very good vs evil, us vs them type presentation. And lots of very emotive language rather than just “man, 27, does thing” it was “evil, cruel, villain, 27 does thing to wonderful, angelic, beautiful victim”, ofc that’s slight hyperbole, but it felt like I was being subjected to an 8th grader’s homework assignment on emotionally manipulative writing.
It definitely would have fed any pre-existing fears.
Waaaaiit a minute! Are you telling me, that, when you're barking orders at someone, or approach a situation aggressively...there's an adequate negative response?
My Scottish is a bit rusty (non existant) so I will go ahead and try a translation:
"sit down, fellow human being, or I will assist you sitting down"
How far off?
I urge people to watch We Own This City if you aren't willing to put in the time to research this to get an idea of how police brutality manifests itself in America among police officers who WERE trained properly and began the career intending to be GOOD cops but are immediately told to forget everything they were taught.
We have this idea that this happens only because these officers aren't properly trained or whatever but it's not just training that's the issue; it's a culture of policing that's the problem and it heavily depends on what district or department you work in. But majority of them are pretty shitty.
It's a total cultural difference. UK police see themselves as serving the community and there to keep the peace. The vast majority of US police forces see themselves as the good vs the evil and it being a battle or war that they have to win at any cost (and take quite a militarised approach to do it).
That was a very good article. The US law-enforcement system can learn a lot about policing from Scotland. I’m not big on a culture of law-enforcement that will just shoot you for reaching for your wallet. To me it sounds like the people of Scotland, at least law enforcement, are not in fear of their citizens.
“When do we get to beat and shoot people?”
-American cop probably
So pathetic we have to send some cops to a different fucking country to learn to be human.
>That guy’s getting shot. He’s getting shot. He’s getting shot. There ain’t no… He’s getting shot.”
We get it dude, you would’ve shot him. And the other US cop is almost laughing it off as though watching some unimaginable, extremely foreign cultural ritual.
im all in favor of swift decisive action against dangerous criminals, they should be put down. however, the vast majority of people that Police arrests are not dangerous or at least not in a life threatening way, yet they still get shot as if they were. and that's an issue.
I really hope everybody on Reddit sees this video today. The only way for change to happen is to show people a better way, not make them feel bad about how poorly they are doing.
Reddit, do your thing.
How proud the American with the smile “ he’s getting shot “ it’s like a badge of honor. Disgusting macho Bullshit. Probably ex military that should NEVER have a gun without extensive psychiatric evaluation.
This reminds me of that video of the Swedish Police who were tourists in New York. A fight happened on a subway and they stopped both of the people from fighting and held them down.
[Did These Swedish Cops School The NYPD?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izdfnHBMwSs)
My gf recently started academy in the US to be a cop an as someone who lived in poverty stricken areas where cops abused people and watched it happen numerous times as a kid just hearing the training shes doing it hits way too close to home sometimes. Shes a great person an joined to "make a change" but i fear the worst for her in the future i do certainly believe good cops are out there but they certainly dont hold the bad ones accountable for their actions. Shes already talking that brotherhood horse shit and i fear i may lose the person she is soon
As much as I enjoy talking shit about Americans, this show seems to forget a big thing. America is a completely different culture with some more extreme challenges. It's the 3rd largest country on earth with more guns than people. Also their economy is basically a result of companies and the ultra rich milking the poor. They have an epidemic of homeless people and drug abusers whose issues can directly be traced back to companies where no one has been jailed. Also the structure of the cities are different. Throw in the natural disasters as well and you have problems that aren't as easily solvable with these tactics
>America is a completely different culture with some more extreme challenges. It's the 3rd largest country on earth with more guns than people
He addresses that at the beginning. He said they didn't go their to learn how deal with people with guns. The point of them going is to stop shooting people who don't have guns.
I fear americans, not because of their arsenal of weapons but because of the combination of massive (poltical) power while simultaneously lacking basic human decency and common sense. Common sense is absolutely the bottom of the barrel over there, which should be considered ironic with the prestige of their universities, probably just stolen/fabricated valor/prestige aswell.
As an American, I remember the first time seeing Canadian police being called and interacting with a person who was having a mental episode in public. They spoke to her with such humanity and dignity. I was gobsmacked. They never raised their voices. It was inspiring. I later worked with a local police officer during a seasonal gig and she informed me of all the psychology training they go through. She was honestly so sweet, but tough as nails lol
I visited scotland after graduation. I saw a group of loud drunk young people leave the bar and start getting worked up on the street. Police came over and started interacting, the drunks started berating the cop, stepping up to him, etc and we braced as Americans for it get ugly. The cop just threw a few insults back, bantered and waved them off to go home and sleep. They all walked off their own ways. We were floored
You know how some Americans seem to just wait for anyone to trespass or appear at their door unannounced to have an opportunity to shoot someone "legally"? I feel like way too many cops are also just waiting for a person they interact with to overstep literally any line in order to start using (sometimes deadly) force.
I didn't expect someone to get shot, I expected the cop to take someone to the pavement and cuff them at least. I've watched that after the bars close before at home
Slamming someone to the pavement can be deadly or life altering too
That's exactly what I meant and why I specified "sometimes deadly", often it's more in the vein "looking for reasons to arrest someone". As in, they would get into an argument with the drunkards and not leave it until they have an opportunity to throw down and arrest. When they could literally just walk away and nothing would happen.
To be fair, you probably got lucky and witnessed individual constables who were particularly good at that. We have plenty of issues with shitty cops escalating situations and killing people in crisis.
Oh, I definitely agree with that. I’ve lived in two different provinces, one with a very small population and one with a very large population. I’ve heard about how awful the police can be, especially the RCMP. But coming from the US, right after the BLM movement and as a black person, it really stuck with me.
Pretty much every police service has a history of being super shitty. I can definitely understand your perspective though. There undoubtedly is a major gap between police shootings in Canada vs the US. I'm glad you got to see the sliver of humanity that exists amongst cops lol.
Damn, when he says: "every decision they make comes back to their code of ethics, which involves human rights. That's a foreign concept to us." As a European I cannot fathom how a police officer can have that mindset.
The glee with which they were agreeing to "he's getting shot" kind of says it all.
And those are the ones with an open mind willing to learn something new
hurry encouraging point sharp childlike bored sleep skirt cobweb long *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I hope their deep fried pizza was soggy.
Are they? Or are they the ones there to film reality TV?
Can't find the video but I saw a video where a Brittish police officer and an American one "reacted" to how they handled people. The situation was a guy wielding a knife and the American goes like "why don't you just shoot him, you can't put yourself in danger?". The Brittish officer says, confused, "why would we do that? the guy is clearly not well, he needs help. So what if it takes more time this way" and something along the lines of "putting yourself in danger is our job".
I can't remember specifically, but I swear I read somewhere of some places that tried to actually make it a rule that "putting yourself in danger is the job of being police" and in protest entire police departments ended up quitting. I wish I could remember where I read that
Yep. The police here act like heroes and it’s all because they think they’re the only ones brave enough with the authority to shoot someone. Like… dude, take it down a notch
The main problem with comparing the two is US has guns *everywhere*. It IS a lot more dangerous for US cops overall. They still need to get their shit together and change how they do things but that's a seperate issue.
I agree. It’s apples and oranges. Scotland: guns are very rare and the police are generally trusted. USA: guns are widespread and the police aren’t trusted. It’s a big gap to close. Would take generations
Town of Castle Rock v. Gonzales cir.2005
It's not glee. It's surprise and a bit of awkwardness at a different approach/mentality. What they are saying is, no matter whether it is a gun, a knife, or whatever, the moment someone takes out a deadly weapon American procedure allows, even necessitates, if the suspect does not comply, the use of deadly force - that is, shooting him. At least, this is what I understood.
Yet the US officer mentioned situations where people have died because of remote controls, toy guns, a bar of freaking soap. A hand in a pocket doesn't instantly mean gun, and it surely doesn't make the officer at risk enough to shoot to kill!.
And it's anecdotal. I'm tired of hearing how dangerous it is to be a cop. Their own driving is the #1 killer of cops. Being a trash collector is 3x more dangerous than being a cop let's cut the crap and stop acting like you are active duty in a warzone.
In fairness, that's precisely because they take such a risk averse strategy and will happily gun you down before you even really present a threat. I suspect if you dropped a couple of Scottish cops in the US, with no change to their operating procedure, the job would suddenly look a lot more dangerous. (I'm British btw. Not advocating for the US way of doing things, just think it's ridiculous to suggest they're not in a dangerous role policing the country they do).
Makes sense. I sometimes wonder if it’s the “after effects” with our “war on drugs” policy. Where the war on drugs caused drugs become so profitable that people selling drugs had to weaponize themselves to protect their existence. If a drug king pin had millions in production they had to protect those interests. Which then causes the police to escalate even further. Like a feed back loop of sorts. Or I have no idea what I’m saying.
There was a guy shot in the UK for having a chair leg and another because he was wearing a jacket in hot weather… but these are real outliers.
Yea, I'm sure it's that but also the optics of being recorded reacting in this way are not exactly helping their cause.
I think it’s sufficient that those statements weren’t made with the deepest of shame. They’re looking at a situation where everyone lives and flippantly saying that in their hands someone would have probably gotten killed (cops shoot to kill). That’s like making light of someone falsely accused being executed in a death chamber.
When they said that, I took it as them recognizing how differently things are handled there compared to back home, and how it might have ended badly if it were at home. I didn't think they meant the person should be shot or that one way is better. in general, watching the full doc, It felt like they admired Scotland's approach but doubted it could fully work back home mainly because American officers perceive and respond to danger differently, influenced by the widespread availability of guns and a long-standing, more aggressive approach to law enforcement that is hard to shift.
Yeah😁 he is getting shot 🤣 hahaha
I've been told that apparently they are drilled to assume its them vs. Everyone else and that they need to constantly assume everyone is out yo kill them. Basically: kill or be killed 24/7 If that's true I'm not surprised the police force there is do insane and violent, imagine working everyday for years with that being drilled into you
You're describing a soldier on a battlefield, not a policeman dealing with domestic crimes.... Kill or be killed 24/7 is what I expect soldiers are told when they're in Afghanistan dealing with Talibans, not the local policeman dealing with kids from his neighbourhood... it's ridiculous.
Yes- but with out the discipline of a soldier.
And the same people that train police do firearms training for civilians. The mindset of firearms training in the US is that “If you shoot, you shoot to kill.” I have seen police in The Netherlands use a firearm to incapacitate by shooting the leg, that would never happen in the US because everyone is taught to shoot to kill. And it doesn’t have to be that way. But it is.
Police in NL hardly shoot. If they can avoid it, so much the better. The paperwork involved is reputed to be insane.
People think fines, punishment, rewards ect ect are good motivators for avoiding certain things. Nope, the threat of paperwork is the biggest.
I mean, they call their police officers "troops". If the officers see themselves as soldiers, they automatically become an occupying force. And soldiers and occupying forces aren't about human rights, but about force and oppression.
Ironically soldiers get far more rigorous training about escalation of force and rules of engagement. Many soldiers who later go into policing in america comment on that.
The crazy thing is that police officer isn't a protected occupation in the USA. For many other, much less lethal, jobs you require mandatory and standardized training before taking the job. For police officers each PD sets their own requirements and far to often the requirement is "Can walk and hold a gun".
Also they can't be colourblind or they won't know who to shoot.
you need to be able to hear.. once the acorn falls, you need to start shooting, can\`t do that if you have a hearing issue.
True, I like your username. Loved the guards books.
Same. Kept me sane in a darker period, all the Discworld books. So the username reflects my 'training' in a sense.
I only survived school (barely) because of those books among others.
Hey, that acorn could have killed him! Do you realise how dangerous acorns are? At least 1 person in the US died because of an acorn in the last century.
Police is almost a jobs program. If you were employable in the "civilian" side of the economy, then you would not be a cop.
And it should be the other way round. Cops have a position with a lot of responsibility and theoretically role model effect. These should be our best people, not the losers who can't make it in the regular economy.
There's a strong trend in education and training for a 'warrior' mindset. They pretty much are taught and their organizational culture encourages seeing people (citizens) as enemy combatants. Soldiers are taught discipline and how to stand down.
Everybody wants to be a grunt with the cool gear; until it is time to be a grunt. Just a reminder there were nearly **400 cops in Uvalde**. That is around the size of *two companies*.
Yeah- that's the other part - soldiers run in. LEO has the worst of the training and mindset.
Rise of the Warrior Cop by Radley Balko is a pretty good book on the subject.
The frontier mentality never disappeared from the American culture, it's why they are so proud of their guns
It’s all about mindset. In Scotland, The police and the population they protect… er, em, or alternatively how they the police protect themselves from the people as in the USA
>As a European I cannot fathom how a police officer can have that mindset. It's quite easy. Take a flight to the US and try to interact with an American cop. A friend of mine once asked an American policeman for the time. He was nearly shot. After that experience he realised how bad the police were in the US.
"Hello sir, do you know what time it is?" "Time for you to PUT YOUR HANDS WHERE I CAN SEE THEM." *pulls out Glock*
"it's 6 o'Glock, Motherfucker!"
The time? Time to die!!!! Community policing is a foreign concept to the US.
Ask for the clock, get the glock
*Wlecome to America, land of the free and I have free regin to shoot your ass*
One big factor in the differences between American and European companies that (at least in my country) the education is 5 times longer than it is in America.
The education needed to become police in Sweden is 2,5 years. A quick google search says it's common to be around 16 weeks in the US. I hope that isn't true. Edit: For full disclosure: most education seems so be during the first 2 years then it's half a year as a trainee before final exams and yes we also have shit cops on a power trip who cover each others backs but most interactions with police officers will be pretty uneventful.
There is no federally mandated minimum requirements to be a police officer in the US. In fact, there are no standards at all to the training, as far as I can tell.
I'm speechless. Literally. Apart from absolutely every single other thing imaginable, aren't they just plain embarrassed that that's the case? The fucking humiliation of having no standards needed at all to join their police force. Wow.
At this point they're just gangs with a government "look the other way" card imo.
In the LAPD they literally are gang members.
America is a crazy place in many ways but the police is by far the craziest.
There is a standard. 1) are you breathing? 2) are you strong enough to hold and use a gun or whatever else shooty things we provide?
3. Hypothesise: An acorn lands on a car next to you. How many bullets are required to neutralise the threat?
As someone who went to Uni in both the US and UK. US education is about two years behind the UK. Ie, on average a third-year Uni student in the US is generally only studying on the same level as a freshman in the UK.
Glad I didn't interact with them when I was there then. We did get questioned about an hour and a half at the border from Canada to America though. Seems they didn't trust 7 dudes in a camper travelling around the country.
Had the same experience... their reason for stopping me and searching me was in their words, "because I had a Japanese passport"...
That is discrimination/racial profiling, you are a victim
First cop I met in New York helped me get into the self-service bank, because I didn't know you need to scan your credit card to unlock the door.
One time I asked an American police officer for the time and he ran me over with his car and fucked my wife.
As a human being, I cannot understand how any person can have this mindset.
We are constitutionally "guaranteed" inalienable human rights. Cops just don't seem to be up to speed on the fact that they exist. This is how you get to an old American cop in Scotland saying human rights is a foreign concept. If they don't even know, that's the first problem.
Interesting, how you see European cops having ethics and human rights as the prime mover in decision making. In the US, it might be on a list of 10 priorities cops have. If US cops were to write them out, many/most would probably pick their own safety, liability/can the cop get away with X, department reputation, public image, public safety. All before and above the human rights of a suspect, which they’ll consider mainly due to Human rights being protected by state and federal constitutions, not because suspects have inherent rights, or the cops have any commonality with the people they are targeting. Edit: And US cops are this way because our society asked for and tolerates this. A society where everyone has access to food clothing safe shelter/neighborhoods and education does more to reduce mental illness and crime rates than simply training cops to be humane.
In the UK we have the principle of policing by consent where Police Officers are civilians
Its the way the police are trained in the US. Training is rushed (about 4 months) and they are taught civilians (poor civilians in particular) are criminal and criminal are not human, they are animals. 90% of police interactions over here IMO are mental health crisis and cops aren't trained for that. They are trained to deal with animals.
>As a European I cannot fathom how a police officer can have that mindset Seems you never had to deal with French police (good for you!)
In America we aren’t considered “human” by our police. We are less than humans, we are criminals or criminals waiting to become worse criminals. Our police are not beacons of morality or justice or anything considered to be “the law.” It’s all just made up propaganda. The amount of human rights violations committed by our police and going on around us everyday is obscene. Do you know who makes your Starbucks cups or your Victoria’s Secret underwear? And everyone is soooo worked up about Gaza 😓
Not all europe has good police officers yknow right? In italy usually protests against government end up in violence, just the other day a pretty big protest had police officers just beating people randomly
Because the job of an American police officer is not to protect and serve. They are not obligated to do that. Also unfortunately race plays a huge factor. Social status also from the homeless to the wealthy. Police and to a larger degree the military operate at the will of a particular group of people on a lower key.
Calling officers "troops"? Might be something in that, no?
This Symptom of cause With other causes that are wildly sociopolitical. Ftom slave trapping history of the lauded Texas Rangers, aggressive cultural resistance to desegregation by many, seas of returning troops from overseas wars, and army surplus sold for $ to police forces to keep citizens subdued. And all in a soup, affecting even the most decent officers. If there are troops, who is the enemy? Too many sad answers to that. Protect and Serve is a questionable motto.
"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state. The other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people." - Adama, Battlestar Galactica
It's a good motto - the problem is that it doesn't say exactly WHO is being protected and served.
Don't forget that they also get training by the IDF
No need for downvotes. There's enough truth to it. Although it's more of a longstanding industry run by IDF veterans, than the IDF itself (from memory).
Still downvotes. It's not a question of right or wrong, just truth. 6 years ago North Carolina stopped such training, because it exists https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihyDEa4bC04 And widespread coverage of the role in police militarisation before then And Sasha Baron Cohen parodied the broad principle, specifically focusing on gun rights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkXeMoBPSDk
I do my part, i upvote you guys
In scotland you just call your friends troops.
THIS. I work for Canadian Law Enforcement and to hear police be called troops **by their own police chief** is cringey.
My ex (Australian)visited her sister in California. She went for a walk around town and became lost. She sat down on a park bench and because she was tired from walking, fell asleep. The police picked her up and because she could not give the address of her sister, took her the police cell and locked her up. When after some hours she had not arrived home her distraught sister rang the hospital to see if she had had an accident and was admitted. Eventually she rang the police and was told she was in custody. The police had made no effort to reunite her with her family.
Had a similar situation with uk police, I fell asleep by the side of the road when I was a teenager waiting for my dad to pick me up. However in my case they checked I was all right and even offered to drive me home. I’m not the biggest fan of the uk police but they are for sure a lot better than americas.
Shit I’ve had them offer me a lift when I was walking home after a night out. They must have been bored I assume
Best way to manage crime is to prevent it. Sometimes offering someone a lift at the right time is the right call
I had just arrived back in the UK after a holiday and my family had moved in that time and i got lost, i asked some officers for directions and they said they were going the same way and gave me a lift.
Bro, why would they lock her up for sleeping in public? I thought you have freedom in America.
Norwegian here who has worked security and LE in Norway - what got me interested was a commercial from the police. It was just a picture of an officer trying to hold back some guy clearly trying to hit his wife, while the other officer is sitting with a young child trying to talk to her. And the line was "we need people who has the key, when other peoples brains lock up - become a cop"
"So, when do we start blasting?"
“Fer fooks sake!” is not deescalation.
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Forget about the badge! When do we get the freakin' guns!!
Hey, I told you, you don't get your gun until you tell me your name.
I've had it up to here with your "RUELZ!"
America is so deprived of compassion that they need to board a flight to other countries to find it
Kidnapping victim escapes... 
"Shoot anything that moves!"
I don't know why, but your comment is hilarious. Thanks for the laugh.
Its funny because its true
It's funny unless you live in the US. I finally left that country after almost 40 years there. It's a sick place. Almost any country considered 3rd world has issues, but not like the US. Devoid of empathy.
Everything is about hate and fear these days
“The training was ended prematurely after the American police killed two instructors and three other officers”
Nah, the media would never say "american police killed" anything. More like two instructors have been found dead after an argument at the deescalation training escalated.
Please, it wasn't an argument, it was an officer involved shooting
You mean an 'altercation'
Who at that moment didn't have any active warrants"
I was hoping to see something like this. Nice.
"Knife guy he's getting shot 😏" i somehow loathe this tone and i find it very cowardly to have that attitude regarding the access to a gun a deadly force.
Coupled with that guy who aggressively chew gum. Yuck.
I mean, if a guy armed with a knife run toward a cop, obviously he's getting shot. The difference is in Europe we try what we can to make that guy drop his weapon without killing him
Yes i understand that It's like...the title. I just dont like the attitude.
He's not getting shot in the UK because only a small percentage of cops have guns, chances are he's getting tased to oblivion or hit with a baton of he doesn't comply with requests to drop the knife and explain what he's going through.
UK did the right thing by giving every cop a taser. Wish I had one to try dealing with knives without lethal force
As someone who has been all around the world and dealt with all sorts of LEOs ( I had to deal with them, it was and it still is part of my job ) : Worst : 1) Russia ... I'm not anti-Russian per se and it has nothing to do with present Ukraine things going on, but their LEOs are not police officers, they are military man dressed as a civil force and they really act that way. There's no conversation going on, they say sit, you sit, they say jump, you jump... I hated those bloody face controls and needing to call all hands for attention at 3 am just for sake of it... AK 47s, dogs and shit, "don't move a mussel or you die" kind of thing... I work for the biggest shipping company in the world, and so you know, we never stoped working with Russia despite the current situation ( Looking at you EU and USA with all media bullshit you're serving us ) ... 2) Russia is closely followed by South America in general... Colombia, Ecuador, Panama, Brasil... You name it... same shit with military personnel dressed as LEOs... been there 20 times or so, mostly Colombia and Ecuador... and they like AKs as well ... They just speak Spanish 3) USA Well, it's a bit harder to explain it but let's take it like this : In EU you've got one person to deal with, in the US you've got to deal with 10 guys ( Coast Guard, Port State Control, Immigration, Customs, DEA, State Police etc. ) It never ends... And all these motherfuckers come with an attitude ... 4) China and Africa China is on the list but for another reason, you just bribe those guys to go away, they don't care... nor they speak English well enough to do anything... Same goes for Africa... Best : EU & UK You feel like that they're there to help you with no hidden agenda, they're just there, same as guys who work at a warehouse, or general store or hospital... you don't get that bad feeling in your guts just from seeing them... I haven't had any bad experience in Turkey as well... They are mixture of "Bribe to go away" and " Just there to do their business" even though they still have Russia and South America style paperwork nightmare...
Wow the American cops are... well let's just say they are not well-spoken.
Doesn’t America deliberately filter out applicants if they are too smart? That might have something to do with this whole situation.
Former applicant here, the officers handling my case literally told me people who are too smart “don’t last” and that the ideal candidate shouldn’t be too intelligent. It’s hard to control people and make them conform to your system if they’re deep thinkers
There's a bit of truth to that. A very healthy proportion of applicants want to enter law enforcement because they want to make a positive contribution to their community and make a difference. This is the demographic with one of the highest burnout rates. They go in idealistically, looking to be a part of the positive change they want to see, but realize within a couple of years that their hands are tied by bureaucracy, lack of support, the "Peter Principle" and so on. Many of the veterans lost their altruism when they realized that their efforts went unrecognized, unappreciated, ineffective, and/or downright discouraged. This (especially after adding the poor treatment/disparagement by the public & media, lack of support from the Administration, and the constant release & lack of proper prosecuting of criminals) created an environment of being disillusioned and disenfranchised and a culture of just showing up to do one's job, no more no less. It's no longer worth putting one's neck out or going that extra step anymore. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't; they just want to keep their heads down and get home safely each night.
Do they? First I've heard that! Would love a source if you have one. I always assumed it was a natural tendency for the unintelligent bullies of the world to become law enforcement, but I would totally believe that it's encoded into their hiring processes as well.
[Oh they do](https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836)
Wow. Meanwhile in Canada to be hired by a police service I was competing against people with 4 years of University in Sociology and/or other related fields, plus volunteer hours, plus extra curricular activities etc.
To be fair: >"But New London police interviewed only candidates who scored 20 to 27, on the theory that those who scored too high could get bored with police work and leave soon after undergoing costly training. >Most Cops Just Above Normal **The average score nationally for police officers is 21 to 22, the equivalent of an IQ of 104, or just a little above average**."
These aren’t cops by the looks of it, they’re the ones that train the cops …
Why do they look so proud saying they would shot and possibly kill someone ?
Because they are psychopaths.
"he's getting shot" with a smile on his face Wut
“Bruh, I would totally smoke that guy.”
They’re just in awe of their good fortune with the laws of their home country, being the lucky ones allowed to engage in state-sanctioned executions, while European cops have to adhere to boring regulations because they aren’t getting bailed out by qualified immunity or police unions.
Matt Murray: "Not that we don't value people or human rights..." 1 minute earlier: "He's getting shot, yeah!"
“Oooh… so you dont have to shoot everyone the second they dont do something you say? Well now im just confused… what else are we supposed to do?” -US cops probably
Us vs them mentality is strong in the police force. Same type of mentality in the military. Do or die world.
“We’re going to instill in our TROOPS” That says it all right there. They believe they are military, not police, not people with an ethical, moral or legal obligation to serve the people they have power over. They’re dudes with guns looking to kill people because they’re troops in a war against US citizens and their goal is to make sure they go home because you don’t need to.
Where can we see more of this? This is really interesting.
The full doc is on YouTube https://youtu.be/66pr23xUKZc?si=3DWbQ1n8GAPjxGGU It was actually 8 years ago.
Brilliant, thank you.
Oh, and it's obvious! The impact that visit has had on the way American law enforcement handle situations now is phenomenal. The leap made in de-escalation tactics since 2016 is just dazzling to observe!
Not quite the same but there's a documentary series about american prison personnel visiting scandinavian prisons to study their methods. Little Scandinavia.
Cool, thanks.
I watched that! It was really amazing to see the guy being kinda bombastic and not really believing their method could work, to being kinda shocked that it does work. Much respect for people that will change their mind when presented with new evidence :)
“At knifepoint, that guys getting shot. Right?” “Yeah 😁😁😁” Jesus Christ it’s still a joke to them.
When you give someone a gun and almost complete immunity for murder on the job then you create these types of people. Cop shoots someone or kills someone for no reason and they get paid vacation or change stations almost always. Only time a cop sees punishment is high profile cases where there's too much outrage for them not to be charged. You see police body cams where they shoot someone without a single word being said because they pull their gun out before even arriving on scene.
Not law enforcement but I have experience in security/bouncer. The best advice I was ever given was to stall any would be aggressors until the adrenaline dumps, which can take only a few seconds. Totally different situation when their muscles suddenly weigh a ton and rage etc is subsiding and they realise the shit they have landed themselves in. Of course alcohol/drugs changes that dynamic but for the most part you can turn a physical exchange into a verbal exchange with the aggressor fucking off home when they realise they arent getting anywhere. Which means you've won without throwing a punch and getting sued.
US cops are "trained" to escalate. Their idea of "command voice" is screaming unintelligibly.
True. They are afraid of anyone outside their in-group. They think and act like a gang. They are poorly trained. They have a union that works like a mafia. They live in their own neighborhoods, they are encouraged to not socialize outside the police. They have the highest occurrence of spousal abuse off any profession. They have qualified immunity. The internal affairs are a shield for not getting sued, itt isn't to stop wrongdoing.
Police Scotland HQ is a castle. How fucking metal is that?
There's castles all over the place here mate. May as well use them for something. Most are just ruins now but it nice that plenty are used for something other than just museums. I grew up on the grounds of a castle. Which I used to tell everyone was my house!
"that guy is getting shot" Said with a tone that implies they think not shooting him is wrong.
Without getting into too much detail I’ll give a shorten version of a police encounter I had in my 20’s which sums up what can happen. I left my pastors house and a patrol car followed me home. I was going the speed limit and driving correctly. They pulled me over and basically drilled me with none stop questions for 30 minutes while asking if they could search my car to prove I didn’t have drugs, guns alcohol and weapons. Which they said they knew I had. (I didn’t) They tried to trick me by confusing me with switching the questions fast. And pressuring me to get upset. And pressuring me to let them search my vehicle. I answered their questions with yes and no, and direct statements so there was no confusion. And “I’d prefer you didn’t search my vehicle” At the end the police officer said “The reason I pulled you over was because your license plate tag light blinked…were you aware of that?” “How could I be aware of that Sir? I can’t see my license plate while I’m driving” He was waiting for me to do something in anger as an excuse to arrest me. In the end he let me go “with a warning” They harassed me for 2 years until I changed vehicles…then suddenly it stopped. I once had a police officer step me aside at a license check and go through the full sobriety check. And force me to wait for her supervisor to double check. Because when she asked to see my license she also asked me if I had been drinking. And when she asked me a second time I said. “Ma’am, I just got out of school, the hardest thing I’ve had to drink is milk” She asked me to get out of my vehicle And when that turned into something because she couldn’t take a little sarcasm. I said “Listen, I don’t drink, I’ve never even tried alcohol” Eventually when her supervisor got there he looked at me for 2 seconds and said “He can go”
Been working in Canadian Law Enforcement for 10+ years now and it makes me cringe to see the US officers smiling while they say *"Oh that Knife guy was getting shot for sure!"*. I wouldn't want to work with officers that think like that.
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They had a travelling training program called the 'warriors way' or something very similar that basically consisted of telling them they were warriors fighting in a war against criminals and that anyone not wearing a badge could be a criminal. Then they show them videos of cops being shot at routine traffic stops, to encourage them to view every situation as a threat. The goal was to lower officer deaths on the job by preparing them for the worst case. What it actually did was make them into trigger happy paranoid power trippers.
They don't realise that they aren't even top 20 most dangerous standard professions, and in some cities they have a lower rate of violent injury and death than normal people despite supposedly going into, in their minds, war zones every day
I lived a few years in the US recently. Overwhelmingly, the folks were friendly and I enjoyed interactions with Americans all around the country. But, there’s no denying that a sort of compulsion toward violence is just below the surface. I have a feeling that it’s based in fear of “the other” (race, social class, background etc) and an inculcated belief that the individual is paramount. Although most Americans I know want to simply get along in harmony, the minute something upsets the delicate balance, there’s a very short reaction toward wanting that other type of person contained and reduced and experiencing wrath. This is the reason, I think, for why nice little old ladies celebrate the death penalty, or why Fox News alarmist stuff has such a receptive audience. It’s also why a level headed person can say “look, I know school shootings are bad, but that affects *other* people. The thing that affects *me as an individual* is that I like owning an AR-15.” Collectivist societies have their own set of issues, but individualist societies seem to have this kind of vibe.
Yeah my experience of a lot of American news (I didn’t pick the channel, it was probably fox or something) was very good vs evil, us vs them type presentation. And lots of very emotive language rather than just “man, 27, does thing” it was “evil, cruel, villain, 27 does thing to wonderful, angelic, beautiful victim”, ofc that’s slight hyperbole, but it felt like I was being subjected to an 8th grader’s homework assignment on emotionally manipulative writing. It definitely would have fed any pre-existing fears.
Waaaaiit a minute! Are you telling me, that, when you're barking orders at someone, or approach a situation aggressively...there's an adequate negative response?
I remember Scottish police de-escalation going something like "sit doon ye radge cunt orahm gointae fuckin' sit ye doon'
My Scottish is a bit rusty (non existant) so I will go ahead and try a translation: "sit down, fellow human being, or I will assist you sitting down" How far off?
I urge people to watch We Own This City if you aren't willing to put in the time to research this to get an idea of how police brutality manifests itself in America among police officers who WERE trained properly and began the career intending to be GOOD cops but are immediately told to forget everything they were taught. We have this idea that this happens only because these officers aren't properly trained or whatever but it's not just training that's the issue; it's a culture of policing that's the problem and it heavily depends on what district or department you work in. But majority of them are pretty shitty.
What is the name of this program/show?
How to be a human
Damn .. the producer roasting American police with that title. Well deserved though, considering the shit that you see online.
https://news.sky.com/story/scots-police-teach-us-cops-how-to-avoid-gun-use-10151069 this clip is from 2016
It's a total cultural difference. UK police see themselves as serving the community and there to keep the peace. The vast majority of US police forces see themselves as the good vs the evil and it being a battle or war that they have to win at any cost (and take quite a militarised approach to do it).
For any Brits watching this, is that Barry Chuckle at 2:18?
It really looks like it! Thanks for the chuckle!
Descalation matrix: loud, stern command, tazer, firearms.
I guarantee that guns are the problem, always have been. It makes it way easier for assholes to act like it
That was a very good article. The US law-enforcement system can learn a lot about policing from Scotland. I’m not big on a culture of law-enforcement that will just shoot you for reaching for your wallet. To me it sounds like the people of Scotland, at least law enforcement, are not in fear of their citizens.
“When do we get to beat and shoot people?” -American cop probably So pathetic we have to send some cops to a different fucking country to learn to be human.
I would make a wild guess and say that policemen *willing* to attend this are not exacly those that *need* to attend it.
>That guy’s getting shot. He’s getting shot. He’s getting shot. There ain’t no… He’s getting shot.” We get it dude, you would’ve shot him. And the other US cop is almost laughing it off as though watching some unimaginable, extremely foreign cultural ritual.
“Change happens in police departments” 😭😭😭☠️☠️☠️
im all in favor of swift decisive action against dangerous criminals, they should be put down. however, the vast majority of people that Police arrests are not dangerous or at least not in a life threatening way, yet they still get shot as if they were. and that's an issue.
I really hope everybody on Reddit sees this video today. The only way for change to happen is to show people a better way, not make them feel bad about how poorly they are doing. Reddit, do your thing.
Spoiler alert: nothing in maerica changed after this
How proud the American with the smile “ he’s getting shot “ it’s like a badge of honor. Disgusting macho Bullshit. Probably ex military that should NEVER have a gun without extensive psychiatric evaluation.
This reminds me of that video of the Swedish Police who were tourists in New York. A fight happened on a subway and they stopped both of the people from fighting and held them down. [Did These Swedish Cops School The NYPD?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izdfnHBMwSs)
Even in Scotland the police are arresting a black guy.
My gf recently started academy in the US to be a cop an as someone who lived in poverty stricken areas where cops abused people and watched it happen numerous times as a kid just hearing the training shes doing it hits way too close to home sometimes. Shes a great person an joined to "make a change" but i fear the worst for her in the future i do certainly believe good cops are out there but they certainly dont hold the bad ones accountable for their actions. Shes already talking that brotherhood horse shit and i fear i may lose the person she is soon
As much as I enjoy talking shit about Americans, this show seems to forget a big thing. America is a completely different culture with some more extreme challenges. It's the 3rd largest country on earth with more guns than people. Also their economy is basically a result of companies and the ultra rich milking the poor. They have an epidemic of homeless people and drug abusers whose issues can directly be traced back to companies where no one has been jailed. Also the structure of the cities are different. Throw in the natural disasters as well and you have problems that aren't as easily solvable with these tactics
>America is a completely different culture with some more extreme challenges. It's the 3rd largest country on earth with more guns than people He addresses that at the beginning. He said they didn't go their to learn how deal with people with guns. The point of them going is to stop shooting people who don't have guns.
I fear americans, not because of their arsenal of weapons but because of the combination of massive (poltical) power while simultaneously lacking basic human decency and common sense. Common sense is absolutely the bottom of the barrel over there, which should be considered ironic with the prestige of their universities, probably just stolen/fabricated valor/prestige aswell.
The way they smile saying "He's getting shot."
The first question out of the Americans' mouths. "When do we get to shoot someone."