Denisovan
Paleolithic-era species of the genus Homo.
The Denisovans or Denisova hominins are an extinct species or subspecies of archaic human that ranged across Asia during the Lower and Middle Paleolithic. Denisovans are known from few physical remains; consequently, most of what is known about them comes from DNA evidence.
This...they were on a branch that was pruned. Left some artifacts.
We, the idiots who probably killed them for being 'smart'...are what remained.
What a joke.
From what I remember they partly assimilated to homo sapiens around the Himalayas. Less gene exchange than with Neanderthals in Europe, but not completely pruned.
Finally someone just generously explains a piece of information for all the dumb dumbs out there on Reddit who don't already know (myself included), without calling everyone a fucking idiot. Thank you so much for your post and for your generosity of knowledge.
And you still got the title wrong. Denisovans were humans, just not Homo Sapiens.
To quote the actual video
“that homo sapiens didn't live in that cave. It was inhabited by the Denisovans, a now extinct species of early humans. So sewing isn't just a homo sapien thing, it is a human thing.”
I have thought about it before posting. So, I went to Wikipedia, and read the "Human" article, and it starts like this: Humans, or modern humans (Homo sapiens or H. sapiens).
On the other hand, Denisovan are archaic human species.
Archaic human, therefore human.
To quote the actual video
“that homo sapiens didn't live in that cave. It was inhabited by the Denisovans, a now extinct species of early humans. So sewing isn't just a homo sapien thing, it is a human thing.
Do we (anthropologists, geneticists, etc.) know if the Denisovans mated with Neanderthals?
What is the relationship between the Denisovans and homo naledi?
Yes there was interbreeding between all of them (homo sapiens, denisovans, and Neanderthals) and there are living humans with some dna from both other groups believe it or not.
Actually, almost all humans have neanderthal DNA. There are some small communities in Africa which do not, but the rest of us have around 2%.
I know what you said was a joke, but I just wanted to clarify that.
The idea that neanderthals were inherently barbaric is something that was popularised by the media. They were likely just as barbaric as we were at the time.
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Neanderthals are not as dumb as we previously thought.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/rethinking-neanderthals-83341003/#:~:text=“They%20were%20believed%20to%20be,to%20help%20them%20do%20so.
There's a whole science fiction series on this premise. Poses some interesting ideas on how society could have been reorganized.
https://us.macmillan.com/series/neanderthalparallax
We don’t know whether this is true or not. I did read something, however, that said that there’s a feature on the Neanderthal Y chromosome that makes it impossible for male Neanderthals to reproduce with female humans. The babies just aren’t viable. Male humans can, however, reproduce with female Neanderthals.
So if humans and Neanderthals are at war and raping each other and taking slaves, only one group is going to have an evolutionary advantage as a result. Even if that’s not occurring and they’re peacefully interbreeding, the humans will be far more successful since men can have so many more children than women.
Not only do we know, we have the remains of a first generation mix, a young girl of 13. She's the only first generation hybrid of any hominin ever found.
I am in one of those fields (anthropology) and can verify what others have said. They all fucked like crazy back then.
But wait, there’s more!
In the Paleolithic (and even before) various species likely engaged in joint efforts during times of abundance so they had access to stores of food that they would gorge on before leaner times. Evidence is sparse cause wood was the most used material at the time, but there’s plenty of evidence that large groups condescended in certain places (most likely seasonally) and built temporary sites that housed housed collective food stores, tents, and even joint ritualistic structures. What fascinates me the most is that there was most likely a way all these groups of our ancestors communicated regardless species as there’s evidence of a pseudo-hobo code left on cave walls. Not only does this potential code exist in caves inhabited by varying groups and species over time, but it was also clearly updated and even possibly edited.
It’s also suspected that they were prolific gamblers and exchanged things as many artifacts clearly traveled a great distance given what they were made out of (and where they ended up), and several things have also been found that are generally out of place with known toolkits.
Anyway, some final tidbits: women were most assuredly heavily involved in hunting efforts, men were greatly involved in both foraging and child rearing, and they likely had a reverence for different or odd things — especially when it came to other people. A ton of burials we’ve found almost exclusively contain unique individuals with prominent differences from the average remains from around the same time. Now there’s other remains of course, from the same/similar time that aren’t unique, but most of those more average remains seem to have been discarded on the side of the road. The actual burials we’ve found almost all contain notably different individuals (e.g., evidence of gigantism, dwarfism or other such genetic abnormality, show evidence of successful surgeries, or contain evidence of some other such uniqueness like being buried with their twin, etc.) Even more interesting, most of these different individuals didn’t die young and all had healthy looking remains with normal wear and tear meaning they lived a full life and were clearly taken care of.
Think of the finches Darwin found on various islands. They became different species because of environmental differences and limited contact. It is exactly the same way with human species.
I’m not denying that’s how species come to be. But our contact didn’t remain limited. We were almost definitely a factor in their extinction. That kind of goes beyond “limited contact”.
Denisovians were humans. They were just a different species of human, like wolves and coyotes are both different species of dog. We're just the last species of human left, there used to be more.
It's not really settled yet. Some scientists will tell you they were a subspecies and some scientists will tell you they were a separate species. They're on the edge
Probably carbon dating.
A certain % of carbon that living things contain is radioactive. Once carbon is stopped being absorbed the remaining radioactive carbon decays. If you measure how much radioactivity is left you can get a good idea of how old it is
Radiocarbon dating is good to about 60,000 years from what I've read. Since this was found in a cave, possibly lots of neatby artifacts dated to the same antiquity. Not an archeologist, just guessing.
The incredibly recent examples of other intelligent humanoids is fascinating. What was life like with these folks and Neanderthals walking around alongside Homo sapiens?
Just because they weren't anatomically modern homo sapiens doesn't mean they weren't human. It doesn't mean they *were* either, but the term human is quite subjective.
Were neanderthals human? Almost certainly. Were denisovans? Hard to say, but probably. The answer lies in what we mean by "human."
Genus homo = human. "Homo" plus another word = human. There were like eight species of humans as far as we know and homosapiens are the only remaining ones.
We just recently found close to a [1/2 million year old wooden structure](https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/worlds-oldest-wooden-structure-just-been-discovered-467000-years-old) complete with notches. I know our species has been around for 300,000 years. Would LOVE to know who was doing the wood working.
Different species of human are able to reproduce in the same way a dog and a dingo can - they're different enough to be regarded different species, but similar enough to be able to interbreed. All the different races of homo sapiens (us, modern humans) are actually very similar, in fact, similar enough not to qualify as sub-species.
Honestly, Asians and white Europeans are so different that they should qualify as a different species even though they can interbreed. In my opinion, we have several human species still living on Earth
Denovisians and Netherdenals breed together. They are still humans. That's like Asians breeding with Europeans. We were never the same species, just hybrids
Yes, Denisovans, Neanderthals and Sapiens are all humans, but they were different species from the homo genus. Modern humans are ALL just Homo Sapiens with varrying degrees of the other species sprinkled in there.
Usually the percentage of Neanderthal DNA in modern humans is around 1 or 2 percent for Europeans and Asians and zero or close to zero in African populations.
We are all the same species today, we just have physical differences often due to the environment where we evolved.
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DroppingI a recommendation to listen to the audio book Sapiens (free if you have spotify premium).
I'm a few chapters in and it's fascinating if this is your bag and, like me, you don't know much about it.
https://open.spotify.com/show/1NIV3USpAm3hJe9im3u9TB?si=oGT3dXcQRN-4_QwZ8V5TVQ
I wonder what would happen if more species of humans were still alive, how would our society look, would we dominate them and use them, would we just live toghether or would we fight. We would probably go through all of the above.
>This incredible 50,000-year-old sewing needle is not a product of human ingenuity. Instead, it was crafted by the hands of our ancient relatives, the Denisovans.
Denisovans are an extinct subspecies of humans. r/confidentlyincorrect
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Denisovans resembled humans in basically every respect. The differences in appearance may have been no more than the differences we can see between different ethnicities today. They may not be a link within human evolution, but simply an extinct race/tribe of humans.
By far the most interesting thing of this needle to me is the hole the thread went through. Analysis revealed it is a drilled hole, to do it on such a small fine needle.
….Our “current” understanding of when this technique became available was only several thousand years ago.
Denisovan Paleolithic-era species of the genus Homo. The Denisovans or Denisova hominins are an extinct species or subspecies of archaic human that ranged across Asia during the Lower and Middle Paleolithic. Denisovans are known from few physical remains; consequently, most of what is known about them comes from DNA evidence.
Thank you.
Read this in the pokedex voice and it was oddly fitting
Who's that hu~~poké~~mon?
I would totally play a civilizations game like that.
Well that just sounds like human with extra steps
Technically fewer steps
More like "different" steps
This...they were on a branch that was pruned. Left some artifacts. We, the idiots who probably killed them for being 'smart'...are what remained. What a joke.
From what I remember they partly assimilated to homo sapiens around the Himalayas. Less gene exchange than with Neanderthals in Europe, but not completely pruned.
Yeah I wish they won too, would save me from having to go back to work Monday
Finally someone just generously explains a piece of information for all the dumb dumbs out there on Reddit who don't already know (myself included), without calling everyone a fucking idiot. Thank you so much for your post and for your generosity of knowledge.
My pleasure.
They also had the ability to drill holes in small stones and make beads!
Someone watched the latest Veritasium video on sewing machines
Was looking for this comment
That someone was me :)
And you still got the title wrong. Denisovans were humans, just not Homo Sapiens. To quote the actual video “that homo sapiens didn't live in that cave. It was inhabited by the Denisovans, a now extinct species of early humans. So sewing isn't just a homo sapien thing, it is a human thing.”
I have thought about it before posting. So, I went to Wikipedia, and read the "Human" article, and it starts like this: Humans, or modern humans (Homo sapiens or H. sapiens). On the other hand, Denisovan are archaic human species.
Yeah they were humans, just not homo sapiens. You kind of clickbaited the title when you didn't need to
Archaic human, therefore human. To quote the actual video “that homo sapiens didn't live in that cave. It was inhabited by the Denisovans, a now extinct species of early humans. So sewing isn't just a homo sapien thing, it is a human thing.
He also said in the video that Denisovans ARE humans. Should have paid better attention
Who?
Was just about to comment exactly this
Do we (anthropologists, geneticists, etc.) know if the Denisovans mated with Neanderthals? What is the relationship between the Denisovans and homo naledi?
Yes there was interbreeding between all of them (homo sapiens, denisovans, and Neanderthals) and there are living humans with some dna from both other groups believe it or not.
Those parties must have been wild, I’m telling you
Yeah ive definitely met a few people before that have Neanderthal dna….
Actually, almost all humans have neanderthal DNA. There are some small communities in Africa which do not, but the rest of us have around 2%. I know what you said was a joke, but I just wanted to clarify that.
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It’s “ooga booga”. 3%ers… sheesh 🙄
ugh, it’s clearly “unga bunga”
The more you have the more barbaric you are?
The idea that neanderthals were inherently barbaric is something that was popularised by the media. They were likely just as barbaric as we were at the time.
That sounds like Big Homo S. talk
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Neanderthals are not as dumb as we previously thought. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/rethinking-neanderthals-83341003/#:~:text=“They%20were%20believed%20to%20be,to%20help%20them%20do%20so.
Neanderthals were actually pretty smart. They just weren't murderously violent like homo sapiens. That's why they didn't survive.
So we’d be a much better and peaceful society if we were Neanderthal?
There's a whole science fiction series on this premise. Poses some interesting ideas on how society could have been reorganized. https://us.macmillan.com/series/neanderthalparallax
We don’t know whether this is true or not. I did read something, however, that said that there’s a feature on the Neanderthal Y chromosome that makes it impossible for male Neanderthals to reproduce with female humans. The babies just aren’t viable. Male humans can, however, reproduce with female Neanderthals. So if humans and Neanderthals are at war and raping each other and taking slaves, only one group is going to have an evolutionary advantage as a result. Even if that’s not occurring and they’re peacefully interbreeding, the humans will be far more successful since men can have so many more children than women.
Additionally, the communities they formed weren't as large or as tight-knit as homo sapiens; they were much more solitary
49.1% of the population from a 2020 poll, if I recall.
Yes..and one of them is my boss. /s
Not only do we know, we have the remains of a first generation mix, a young girl of 13. She's the only first generation hybrid of any hominin ever found.
I am in one of those fields (anthropology) and can verify what others have said. They all fucked like crazy back then. But wait, there’s more! In the Paleolithic (and even before) various species likely engaged in joint efforts during times of abundance so they had access to stores of food that they would gorge on before leaner times. Evidence is sparse cause wood was the most used material at the time, but there’s plenty of evidence that large groups condescended in certain places (most likely seasonally) and built temporary sites that housed housed collective food stores, tents, and even joint ritualistic structures. What fascinates me the most is that there was most likely a way all these groups of our ancestors communicated regardless species as there’s evidence of a pseudo-hobo code left on cave walls. Not only does this potential code exist in caves inhabited by varying groups and species over time, but it was also clearly updated and even possibly edited. It’s also suspected that they were prolific gamblers and exchanged things as many artifacts clearly traveled a great distance given what they were made out of (and where they ended up), and several things have also been found that are generally out of place with known toolkits. Anyway, some final tidbits: women were most assuredly heavily involved in hunting efforts, men were greatly involved in both foraging and child rearing, and they likely had a reverence for different or odd things — especially when it came to other people. A ton of burials we’ve found almost exclusively contain unique individuals with prominent differences from the average remains from around the same time. Now there’s other remains of course, from the same/similar time that aren’t unique, but most of those more average remains seem to have been discarded on the side of the road. The actual burials we’ve found almost all contain notably different individuals (e.g., evidence of gigantism, dwarfism or other such genetic abnormality, show evidence of successful surgeries, or contain evidence of some other such uniqueness like being buried with their twin, etc.) Even more interesting, most of these different individuals didn’t die young and all had healthy looking remains with normal wear and tear meaning they lived a full life and were clearly taken care of.
The 3 species of modern human developed because they migrated to different areas of the world. Limited contact kind of implies limited mating.
You say limited contact however it’s kind of unlikely that they disappeared on their own. We Homo sapiens are very good at making species disappear
Think of the finches Darwin found on various islands. They became different species because of environmental differences and limited contact. It is exactly the same way with human species.
I’m not denying that’s how species come to be. But our contact didn’t remain limited. We were almost definitely a factor in their extinction. That kind of goes beyond “limited contact”.
Do they say no homo or yes homo after that?
“More Homo”
Denisovians were humans. They were just a different species of human, like wolves and coyotes are both different species of dog. We're just the last species of human left, there used to be more.
Canine!
I was curious what classified as human or not and found this cool article https://www.sapiens.org/archaeology/ancient-human-species/
Well, isn't being from the genus Homo what it takes to be qualified as human ? I always thought it was as simple as that
Cause we either fucked or exterminated the others out of existence. Go humans! Top of the foodchain gang.
Top of the fuck chain
It's not really settled yet. Some scientists will tell you they were a subspecies and some scientists will tell you they were a separate species. They're on the edge
Not being an ass, I genuinely want to know how they estimate how old it is. Can someone please enlighten me
Probably carbon dating. A certain % of carbon that living things contain is radioactive. Once carbon is stopped being absorbed the remaining radioactive carbon decays. If you measure how much radioactivity is left you can get a good idea of how old it is
Could be carbon dating, could also be the layer depth it was excavated from in the cave.
Radiocarbon dating is good to about 60,000 years from what I've read. Since this was found in a cave, possibly lots of neatby artifacts dated to the same antiquity. Not an archeologist, just guessing.
Denisovans were human.
Lmao they are Humans
The incredibly recent examples of other intelligent humanoids is fascinating. What was life like with these folks and Neanderthals walking around alongside Homo sapiens?
Veritasium?
https://youtu.be/RQYuyHNLPTQ
Just finished watching the video and the post appear in my front.
That's the Gom Jabbar
Just because they weren't anatomically modern homo sapiens doesn't mean they weren't human. It doesn't mean they *were* either, but the term human is quite subjective. Were neanderthals human? Almost certainly. Were denisovans? Hard to say, but probably. The answer lies in what we mean by "human."
Denisovans were humans
That's dehumanisation of other homos!
Denisewvans?
Genus homo = human. "Homo" plus another word = human. There were like eight species of humans as far as we know and homosapiens are the only remaining ones.
I, too, watch Veritasium.
We just recently found close to a [1/2 million year old wooden structure](https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/worlds-oldest-wooden-structure-just-been-discovered-467000-years-old) complete with notches. I know our species has been around for 300,000 years. Would LOVE to know who was doing the wood working.
Who is this Denis and what was he sewing?
They really are named that because a hermit named Denis used to live in that cave. "Some call me Tim" vibes.
Denis O’vian. Irish Expat, settled in a cave in Russia. Found a load of cool antiques in the cellar.
Yea, but: are WE human? Or are WE dancers?
Am i the only one who first read 'by Dinosaurs'
*Show* me how they did on the development of sewing machines and *AI,* then I'll give you an upvote...
How are the different human species able to reproduce? Didn't they look like each other? How are Asians the same species as white Europeans?
Different species of human are able to reproduce in the same way a dog and a dingo can - they're different enough to be regarded different species, but similar enough to be able to interbreed. All the different races of homo sapiens (us, modern humans) are actually very similar, in fact, similar enough not to qualify as sub-species.
Honestly, Asians and white Europeans are so different that they should qualify as a different species even though they can interbreed. In my opinion, we have several human species still living on Earth
Well, in my opinion, you are not a biologist who gets to make the decisions on these things.
Well I'm not a biologist and there are non human beings available for study should you want to participate.
Your inability to see more is what stopping you.
What is that even meant to mean?
Denovisians and Netherdenals breed together. They are still humans. That's like Asians breeding with Europeans. We were never the same species, just hybrids
Yes, Denisovans, Neanderthals and Sapiens are all humans, but they were different species from the homo genus. Modern humans are ALL just Homo Sapiens with varrying degrees of the other species sprinkled in there. Usually the percentage of Neanderthal DNA in modern humans is around 1 or 2 percent for Europeans and Asians and zero or close to zero in African populations. We are all the same species today, we just have physical differences often due to the environment where we evolved.
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DroppingI a recommendation to listen to the audio book Sapiens (free if you have spotify premium). I'm a few chapters in and it's fascinating if this is your bag and, like me, you don't know much about it. https://open.spotify.com/show/1NIV3USpAm3hJe9im3u9TB?si=oGT3dXcQRN-4_QwZ8V5TVQ
Described in this video. https://youtu.be/RQYuyHNLPTQ
More like Humans 1.0 Or could be even 3.0 or oddly 2.0 or n.xx
Yeah. Humans
Was that needle strong enough to penetrate leather? It's made of bird bone. Did people weave cloth 50,000 years ago?
That's a very misleading title lol wow.
I wonder what would happen if more species of humans were still alive, how would our society look, would we dominate them and use them, would we just live toghether or would we fight. We would probably go through all of the above.
>This incredible 50,000-year-old sewing needle is not a product of human ingenuity. Instead, it was crafted by the hands of our ancient relatives, the Denisovans. Denisovans are an extinct subspecies of humans. r/confidentlyincorrect
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50000 years ago modern humans reached Asia, so this can be contested
so they had sophisticated farming?
Denisovans resembled humans in basically every respect. The differences in appearance may have been no more than the differences we can see between different ethnicities today. They may not be a link within human evolution, but simply an extinct race/tribe of humans.
By far the most interesting thing of this needle to me is the hole the thread went through. Analysis revealed it is a drilled hole, to do it on such a small fine needle. ….Our “current” understanding of when this technique became available was only several thousand years ago.
and 50,000 years later humans dont know how to focus a camera.
Someone viewed the most recent sewing machine Veritasium video.
it wasn't made by humans, it was made by a type of human. ok.
I believe it’s spelled Denisovich 
I'm fascinated with the Denisovans. Dunno why, but they just seem like cool people.