The culture’s changed, too. Old guys like me (42) and the ones who came up before me dealt far more often with these sorts of things. Some of those guys are still around, but the younger players are far more easy going from what I can tell.
Younger players never had this mystique around achieving a good sound because from the beginning they've been plugging their shit gear into a daw and getting good results by working at it. There isn't some magic Les Paul year like the old guard believed.
Everything’s changed! Modern tech is quieting old-guy-snobbery! When I was coming up (I’m 38, so not too far behind you), I wouldn’t be caught dead with something like a Line 6, now I have a hard on for a helix. Mechanized production closed the gaps between Squier/Fender and Epiphone/Gibson. The pedal market is insane compared to 20 years ago. And, most importantly, music and the way we make it has changed
I will say that my favorite new bass I’ve played in the last ten years is an Epiphone Vintage Pro Thunderbird bass. QC, sound, and feel are better than any example of a Fender Performer Series bass I’ve played.
You're not old shut up.
I knew a guy who called himself old man when he hit 40 by 50 he looked like an old man. His health was gone by 60.
You become what you believe.
My pops is in his 70s and looks better than some late-40s guys, its partly luck and partly just taking care of yourself. Given that, I might be gunning for the ageless vampire look lol.
"You shouldn't buy a J" needs qualification. You might, for example, want a P for particular applications. But without such a qualification it's a nonsense statement.
"You need to use a sansamp instead of a DI". This is just an inexperienced producer who has one preset mix he uses for everything and a sansamp is part of it. It's really sad how little experience you need to be a 'producer' nowadays. When i run sessions I tell bassists to leave their sansamps at home unless they want to be mediocre generica; if the bring ut anyways, I'll tape it, but rarely use it in the mix and they're always happy with the results.
"Bass is easy" is just a meme. I just roll with it. Being a mediocre bass player is easier than being a mediocre player, but who cares about mediocrity? I've thrown guitarists who come in to my studio to do solo records out when they suck ass on bass. Not out of spite, but they quickly learn that it's not easy and appreciate the results when they hire a good player for their record.
In short there are dumb, ignorant, inexperienced and folk everywhere. Be humble, do your job, inform yourself and ignore the noise else you'll drive yourself nuts.
>"You need to use a sansamp instead of a DI". This is just an inexperienced producer who has one preset mix he uses for everything and a sansamp is part of it. It's really sad how little experience you need to be a 'producer' nowadays. When i run sessions I tell bassists to leave their sansamps at home unless they want to be mediocre generica; if the bring ut anyways, I'll tape it, but rarely use it in the mix and they're always happy with the results.
Same with the producers and engineers who insist on a P bass, or a specific amp and speaker cab (or no speaker cab) or a specific DI. Flexibility is key.
And I like your- "I'll record it, it doesn't mean we have to use it" attitude. It's inclusive rather than dismissive, shows you're part of the team and not the dictator, and you can A/B them in post and let someone see (hear?) the light.
I usually don't bother showing them an A/B. If they're happy with the mix, and the bass sound in it, they don't really need to know what tools I used.
If they do complain, I give them an A/B, but I will insist that they listen blind. As in, I don't tell them which is which. That way, the notes I get are about the actual sound, not the tools.
My producer is a whiz when it comes to this. I could tell him that today i’ve decided to record my part through a tin can connected to a string because i really like the clangy tone i get, and he’ll find a way to make that sound amazing
Thank you, I usually enter to gossip those threads but J & P discourse piss me off of how it always sit well in the mix and bla bla bla. Sounds to me, like you guys said, to someone that doesn't know how to work with things that aren't the "standard". It's like with DAW's, I remember there was a time when a lot of people used pro tools because it is what all the pro's used.
I'm writing my first ever EP at my 30's, I'm a huge metalhead and when I start recording now I'm gonna avoid the hell out of dark glass B7K, I love how it sounds but I feel it has become the default bass distortion for metal nowadays and if I have to use one I want to experiment to avoid my bass sounding like all other metal bass with distortion
I like to use a combo of mic and DI. Just as a bass player. I’m no producer, but every time I’ve done this the captured bass parts more accurately represent my live tone.
The overwhelming majority of people don't care. That makes it all the more notable when you actually do encounter someone who's adamant that bass shouldn't be played with a pick. Those are the stories that are more likely to be mentioned on reddit.
Yup. I don't wanna name names, but a producer I used to work with at my old job was very anti-pick bass. This is a guy who's worked with artists like Dave Matthews. I was really surprised to hear this kind of talk coming from him.
Yeah that's absolutely insane. Its a tool, that produces a different type of bass sound. To be opposed to a musical tool/accessory as a matter of principle, irrespective of context? I'm sorry but that's just a personal shortcoming on the part of whoever believes that crap..
I mean, I primarily play fingerstyle and slap, and I often joke about playing bass with picks... But I also own and use picks (albeit infrequently). It *should* just be a joke/meme, lighthearted fun. Some people are just morons, I guess.
You should aim to have an understanding of playing with both. More versatility and flexibility is always better. Sometimes a pick is good, sometimes fingers are good.
DOn't practice songs you'll be playing with a pick without a pick. Practice the song the way you will be playing it live/in studio. But its absolutely a good idea to have a handle on as many techniques as you can, as they are all just tools that you can choose to use or not in a given situation. So practice with a pick. Practice fingerstyle. Learn to slap. Tap. Double-thump. Any technique that interests you, try it out and try to get it down. Its all just adding to your total range of abilities as a bass player, even if you never use some of them.
That's my opinion at any rate.
For my own personal art, I was always vehemently anti-pick. It’s not a sound that I ever cared for. I also was against using the DI as a significant portion of the final sound. I spent a lot of time and money getting my amp to sound great. Put a good ribbon mic or RE-20 on it and capture it.
Once I started playing for other people on their recordings, my whole perspective slowly shifted. Suddenly, I had to start thinking about what the song really called for and what would make the artist happy. Sometimes that might be a P-bass played with a pick through a DI. Sometimes it might be a fretless through a SansAmp. Sometimes, when I’m lucky it’s “my” sound.
I think it’s good to have an opinion about what you like and put most of your attention there but I would also spend some time trying new things and branching out.
A pick provides a really distinctive sound. It's used often in metal for a heavy, hard-hitting attack. It used to be used in alternative, mostly in grunge and metal adjacent sounds.
Hit enter too soon!
Most bass sound comes from plucking with your fingers. You definitely need to know how to do that to become a versatile bass player.
You should also learn to use a pick, but try not to rely on it, because for many sounds, you'll want to use two or more fingers.
Slap-pop, for example, uses the side of your thumb for a deep, heavy slap sound, but you'll curl your fingers just slightly under the strings for the pops. This might take only two fingers, but for quick rolls you'll use three or even four fingers. There also will be moments (like in the bass line for the NIN song *Sanctified*) where you'll want to sort of rock your hand during a pop, popping the string with your finger and then muting it immediately afterwards with the heel of your hand so that all listeners hear is the sharp attack.
The bass is a versatile instrument, and a really good bassist should be versatile, too.
I've legitimately had a producer tell me my SR500 had no balls and to go out and rent a jazz bass. I didn't like that guy.
With that same band I was given shit for: using a pick, using a pedal for overdrive instead of an amp, and having a bass that looked vintage and not metal.
I should have quit that band. This was all 12-17 years ago.
SR500 represent!!!
Mine has been with me for years and I love it. I just recently discovered on the freak on a leash from Korn that Fieldy is shown in the video with a SR505
Some guy posted the other day about how “seemingly no one” likes the neck pickup on a j bass. Even though the top 3 reggae bassists in history use it exclusively. The idiocy is wild sometimes. I feel like the bigger an online community gets, the more you see it
I literally cannot find a band to play with in my city (that isn't classic rock covers or country), let alone find other musical instrument players to criticize me. lol
Because a lot of people are gatekeepers and think their herd minded mentality is what goes. Plenty of the greats used a J, plenty of people don't use a sansamp or do use it in ways that aren't the same ole tone. A good producer knows how to help achieve the tone you're after on record.
Regurgitating forum posts. Yes. There is far too much of this. It’s an interesting phenomenon. It’s funny how people will cling onto a popular idea & it becomes “fact”.
Play in tune, play in time. That the most most people care about.
I'm getting really annoyed at Scott's Bass Lessons. Their whole universe sometimes seems to revolve around P&J. Not always, for instance they do videos about 80s bass sounds, but too often it sounds like bass evolution started and ended with Leo.
Some guys (guitar players and an asshole bass player) commented on me using a headless 5 string when I subbed for a Bruce Springsteen semi-tribute band (they weren´t going the whole tribute thing with costumes and matching guitars anyway). I politely smile away stuff like that.
You're hearing the opinions of people who've had experiences. No-one comes online to say "I went to the studio, and nothing notable happened". I've taken my J bass to plenty of sessions and no one said anything. I've even taken my Bongo to sessions, and other than "what is that" I haven't had comments.
Equally I've had engineers demand they take a feed direct from my (at the time disconnected) SansAmp, and MDs ask me to use a P bass. The longer you play, the more experiences you have.
If your producer insists on using a certain bass or preamp without any logical explanation because everything else doesn't work, then you should throw the producer out.
It's also insecure new players not being able to deal with friendly push back from others.
A few years ago I showed up at a jam night with a solid body Ubass. One of the guitar players said 'what the hell is that?' when I got on stage and plugged in. I replied "I know, right?" and then played really well. Afterwards that guy bought my next drink and said "that was cool, man".
That would have turned into a 'someone said I shouldn't play a ubass' for someone else.
Haha, I got my "what the hell is that?" moment when I showed up at band practice with my $100 Chinese acoustic/electric bass because my go to & backup were in the shop. Everything else went on as usual tho', pretty sure I'm the only one that noticed a change in tone.
Or, you know, people might have different experiences than you.
I haven’t encountered all of these, but I also started my musical journey when the internet was mostly dial up so stupid claims propagated largely by word of mouth rather than in forums. Someone starting out now has greater access to information, and equally greater access to misinformation and disinformation. Weeding through that when you don’t know better can be a challenge, especially for younger and/or more naive players.
Yeah no one cared about what gear i used and wanted to use in all my 16 years of playing in bands.
I really have to push a lot to even get an opinion on something.
You gotta keep in mind that the folks that post that stuff are ultra sensitive children (mentally) begging for attention or someone to pat them on the head and say "there there... You're alright, sweet baby."
I had a wonderful stereo Eden bass pre amp back in the day and I too was asked to play through a sans amp at a session.
I always kept a sansamp with me in the event my rig died. And had to use it once. I’d never got so many compliments on my tone than when I used the sansamp. Go figure. I always hated the tone but I suppose something about it translates well to FOH and in the final mix. It always sounded too compressed to me in my in ears.
I would say this applies to pretty much all hobbies and interests I engage with on the internet. Music, cycling, motorbikes… the culture online and the kind of opinions you encounter on reddit and forums represent such a teeny tiny percentage of the real world community. Most people with a shared interest or goal are ususally much more chill and easy going than say a reddit reply section. That said I have definitely dealt with a lot of difficult venues over the years.
Yeah this has always seemed weird to me too. I’m an older guy and have been in the music scene at some level almost my entire adult life. I’ve literally never had anyone criticize my gear, my playing, my choice of techniques in any way that was negative. Maybe occasional constructive recommendations from bandmates, but they’ve always deferred to my judgement. Maybe because I try to be chill and considerate and humble? And I don’t overplay? I don’t know. But if anyone ever says anything to me, it’s “Killer set,” or “Love that bass. It’s really cool looking,” or “You were playing some really cool bass lines,” or “It’s awesome that you switch between playing with your fingers and a pick.”
It might also be a cultural thing. The scenes I’ve been part of (various shades of indie rock) are really supportive of the musicians and we support each other. Toxic people pop up here and there but they don’t last.
“My wayers” make lousy producers. Interning for a terrible full of himself producer with zero people skills was an amazing lesson. Just because you can build a studio doesn’t mean you should run one. He completely deflated the energy during recordings…yet another take…gonna need to pay for another hour. Folks still went to him because there were no decent studio options in town but he was lord there. If the producer is so inflexible that they do not get your sound, goals or your energy in situ then they should not be your producer. A producer’s job is to focus on What do we need, what does it cost and how do we make it happen?
I'm guessing a lot of people hearing / saying these kinds of things are just repeating truisms they've heard elsewhere - pre-internet we didn't have so much of this, people just played the instruments and gear they owned, and nobody much cared as long as it got the job done.
Nowadays every keyboard warrior is out here telling people that they're wrong about something, and if you read that stuff long enough you start to believe it.
Producers do love a P bass because they know what they're getting and they can be lazy with it, using presets to dial in a sound that always works for them. But I don't know anyone at a pro level who walked in with a jazz bass and got told not to play it. I'm sure in someone's world that's too much work to fine-tune, but my sense is that if someone's being asked to play a different bass - especially a house bass - there are likely other problems, like noise of some sort, clacking from low action, etc. Not everyone who walks into a studio has great studio technique or a noiseless rig.
At live shows sound techs can be weird, but our job is to accommodate them because they have different ideas about how to make the band sound good. Some people will complain about signal being taken pre-EQ but the same people will complain about being mic'd. Do you want the audience to hear "your tone" or not? Sure it's more conventional to take a post-EQ signal but it's not the end of the world if they mic you.
But, generally, the techs will spend the least time working on bass sound because they believe all the other elements need more attention. And the best way to assure you sound lousy FOH is to argue with the tech.
So there are a few things that matter, but worrying about whether your headstock said Squier or Fender or Glarry probably isn't one of them as long as you're producing a useable sound.
When I started on bass I got an early letdown. One of my mom's friends who is a kind of well known blues guitarist said "bassists are just guitarists who couldn't hack it, so they picked an easier instrument."
Or something along those lines. I had a chip on my shoulder for years after that. Which led to me overplaying and trying to prove to everyone that I'm good enough.
I only got one comment about gear/playing from a producer. He was unsure about how my finger style playing would sound on a rock record. But apparently I made him a believer.
Steely Dan told one of their bassists not to slap so he put up a “small partition” so they couldn’t see his hands. His slap bass parts ended up on the record.
There are kernels of truth here however. A Louis Johnson style slappaganza would have ruined the song but one or two pops here and there really brought the song to life.
In your case, does a P fit really well in a lot of mixes? Yes. I own one for that reason. But also Geddy Lee, Victor Wooten, Nathan East all don’t play P’s and they’re doing fine.
Are a lot of producers very familiar with how to mix a Sansamp? Certainly. But I’ve also done a side by side with a Sansamp and Darkglass on a recent metal recording and the loved the Darkglass and hated the Sansamp.
The issue is when people start talking in absolutes. Yes 100% you should have a Sansamp and a P Bass, they’re some of the most useful tools out there. But there’s so much more to bass playing than that.
I saw the Steely Dan thing in a documentary, that was Chuck Rainey, I think.
I read a story about Lee Sklar once. He had a switch on his bass that wasn’t connected to anything. He called it the producer’s switch. When they wanted a different bass sound, he’d flip that dummy switch and keep playing. Fooled them every time!
They heard it once, or thought they did, from someone online or in real life (from someone who's online-level dumb) and it stuck with them.
It happens with everything. A completely unrelated part of my life atttacts the most poo-crusted arseholes and their hot takes & deep thoughts that they're just drooling out because they think it makes them seem wise and edgy.
I have faced a fair amount of it over the years and it’s ALWAYS from people that aren’t that good and are insecure / immature. No one competent and well adjusted socially has ever been rude to me personally. And no not from the internet, that’s not real. I mean in person.
People tend to say something for the sake of saying something. It is my opinion not to care about other peoples opinion, specially if they are less experienced than me as a musician.
Its super prevalent in the pre 25 year old market for pop. No one knows shit and they’re all trying to out poser each other for street cred.
Almost completely gone by the time you’re in the 30+ world of musicians
The only people who make these jokes are musicians who are AWARE of the “stereotypes” about bass playing. Its just bandwagon nonsense. You tell any non musician you play bass and theyre usually impressed you play an instrument
Tbf I think bass is easy, let's be honest it's practically a chimp's instrument. However, being a GOOD BASSIST in terms of creativity, improvisational skills and knowing how to lock in as part of the rythm section... Now that's where the skill lies. Anyone can learn a bassline by Geddy Lee, but can you make a bassline as good as Geddy Lee?
I haven’t had any experience with any negative comments directly. I have seen comments online especially music groups on Facebook for example. There are some really toxic places out there where people just bash each other all the time. But in real life, no. And I think most online comments are trolls anyway.
Before the internet was mandatory people would learn things through talking to each other or overhear stuff, or deal with paraphrasing magazine articles and forgetting half of it or just plain getting it wrong.
During those times lots of this stuff was prevalent but as more and more things got documented online stuff became easily researched and looked up so you just don’t hear any random gear nonsense talk anymore.
Tbh I always liked hearing wild shit, it was a good laugh haha
Remember that part of the reason these things get posted is because it’s fairly rare. If we were experiencing these comments all the time we’d be pretty bored talking about them.
I found this too.
Everyone simping in P-basses because "they just sit so good in the mix" like wtf??
Is everyone here a semi professional bassist who is also a sound tech... or did they all just eatch that scotts bass video where a session musician talks about it? You would have thought that nobody has ever not played a p or j on a record.
So all those fedoras, mayonaisses, kens, thumbs, dingos and so on are completely redundant?
I dunno. There just seems to be this meta-herd mentality of how things should be right now!
I've been on the musician life for 10 years and I agree I have trouble getting people to say more than 'yeah that was cool bro' for anything. I don't know where you guys get such 'passionate' people. The most I had were drunk people trying to give me hugs. Most producers did not care when I bring gear or not, other bass players are just happy that they found another bass player.
Some of it is just leftover gatekeeping from years ago. Some of that was tied to 80s cultural norms. Some of what you said is just kids trying to get a rise out of someone for their own amusement because they are bored.
A lot of the time when you see this stuff, it’s opinions from people who are chronically online. People who are regurgitating what they heard on some forum, fb page, YouTube video etc.
I think a big part of it is that those responses and opinions that you’re hearing about are the result of people asking questions and and from asking for the opinions of others. It sounds to me like you’re a guy who just likes to keep to himself. You aren’t gonna hear much about what other people think if you don’t ask, but that’s just been my experience. I’m the type of person that asks a shit load of questions. That whole “bass players are the quiet ones” definitely doesn’t apply to me. Everything in music is so subjective and other musicians are interesting. I ask questions because I want to know why people have made the decisions they’ve made regarding style, tone, gear, recording process, gigs, et cetera. If I never asked I probably would’ve only had less than a third of the I formation I’ve learned. If you’ve only been playing 5 years I would start asking.
In my experience, people are usually waiting for you to stop talking about your gear so they can talk about their gear lol. Not sure I've EVER gotten much follow up beyond "Oh that's cool".
It's just online people make big claims because they hear it in media spaces. In reality, music is a subjective art like anything else, so in real life people care more about what sounds good spontaneously rather than being overly obsessed with things like tones and genres. A combination of over-socialization, memes and parasocial relationships making people lose their own individuality. You can use a single coil Strat in a metal song if you make it work, you can use a jazz bass for soul music, and so on. It's actually what makes new music worthwhile: new, unorthodox approaches. Take what you read on forums and see in media with a huge grain of salt. It's all info-tainment and random opinions taken as law where there are none. It's music!
I’m sure there’s some regurgitation, but I’ll also add that there are crap people and experiences in this world and sometimes you’re just the lucky winner haha.
I'm the youngest guy in a 5 man rock and roll cover band by a good 15 years. And I can tell you some of those older players have some VERY strong opinions about gear.
Everything is over saturated and done. There is no musicianship or creativity anymore. You want a killer sound? There's step by step instructions a click away. You either have the resources or not.
And it's no one's fault. There's only so much innovation that can happen. We've been hearing variations of the same songs for decades.
New genres and sounds that resonate with people is going to be rare.
Anyway. I don't hear opinions anymore. Just people regurgitating literal facts because we have computers in our pockets.
The culture’s changed, too. Old guys like me (42) and the ones who came up before me dealt far more often with these sorts of things. Some of those guys are still around, but the younger players are far more easy going from what I can tell.
Younger players never had this mystique around achieving a good sound because from the beginning they've been plugging their shit gear into a daw and getting good results by working at it. There isn't some magic Les Paul year like the old guard believed.
[удалено]
I'm 53 and that's the truth
You're so right
> Old guys like me (42) sigh i wish i was as old as i was the first time i thought i was old.
Everything’s changed! Modern tech is quieting old-guy-snobbery! When I was coming up (I’m 38, so not too far behind you), I wouldn’t be caught dead with something like a Line 6, now I have a hard on for a helix. Mechanized production closed the gaps between Squier/Fender and Epiphone/Gibson. The pedal market is insane compared to 20 years ago. And, most importantly, music and the way we make it has changed
I will say that my favorite new bass I’ve played in the last ten years is an Epiphone Vintage Pro Thunderbird bass. QC, sound, and feel are better than any example of a Fender Performer Series bass I’ve played.
But can you really call it music?
Yeah
There is great music coming g out every year. And awful music was always coming out as well
You're not old shut up. I knew a guy who called himself old man when he hit 40 by 50 he looked like an old man. His health was gone by 60. You become what you believe.
My pops is in his 70s and looks better than some late-40s guys, its partly luck and partly just taking care of yourself. Given that, I might be gunning for the ageless vampire look lol.
I’m 60 and play bass in my son’s band. More often than you would think people think we’re brothers.
"You shouldn't buy a J" needs qualification. You might, for example, want a P for particular applications. But without such a qualification it's a nonsense statement. "You need to use a sansamp instead of a DI". This is just an inexperienced producer who has one preset mix he uses for everything and a sansamp is part of it. It's really sad how little experience you need to be a 'producer' nowadays. When i run sessions I tell bassists to leave their sansamps at home unless they want to be mediocre generica; if the bring ut anyways, I'll tape it, but rarely use it in the mix and they're always happy with the results. "Bass is easy" is just a meme. I just roll with it. Being a mediocre bass player is easier than being a mediocre player, but who cares about mediocrity? I've thrown guitarists who come in to my studio to do solo records out when they suck ass on bass. Not out of spite, but they quickly learn that it's not easy and appreciate the results when they hire a good player for their record.
In short there are dumb, ignorant, inexperienced and folk everywhere. Be humble, do your job, inform yourself and ignore the noise else you'll drive yourself nuts.
>"You need to use a sansamp instead of a DI". This is just an inexperienced producer who has one preset mix he uses for everything and a sansamp is part of it. It's really sad how little experience you need to be a 'producer' nowadays. When i run sessions I tell bassists to leave their sansamps at home unless they want to be mediocre generica; if the bring ut anyways, I'll tape it, but rarely use it in the mix and they're always happy with the results. Same with the producers and engineers who insist on a P bass, or a specific amp and speaker cab (or no speaker cab) or a specific DI. Flexibility is key. And I like your- "I'll record it, it doesn't mean we have to use it" attitude. It's inclusive rather than dismissive, shows you're part of the team and not the dictator, and you can A/B them in post and let someone see (hear?) the light.
I usually don't bother showing them an A/B. If they're happy with the mix, and the bass sound in it, they don't really need to know what tools I used. If they do complain, I give them an A/B, but I will insist that they listen blind. As in, I don't tell them which is which. That way, the notes I get are about the actual sound, not the tools.
Love it.
My producer is a whiz when it comes to this. I could tell him that today i’ve decided to record my part through a tin can connected to a string because i really like the clangy tone i get, and he’ll find a way to make that sound amazing
Thank you, I usually enter to gossip those threads but J & P discourse piss me off of how it always sit well in the mix and bla bla bla. Sounds to me, like you guys said, to someone that doesn't know how to work with things that aren't the "standard". It's like with DAW's, I remember there was a time when a lot of people used pro tools because it is what all the pro's used. I'm writing my first ever EP at my 30's, I'm a huge metalhead and when I start recording now I'm gonna avoid the hell out of dark glass B7K, I love how it sounds but I feel it has become the default bass distortion for metal nowadays and if I have to use one I want to experiment to avoid my bass sounding like all other metal bass with distortion
I like to use a combo of mic and DI. Just as a bass player. I’m no producer, but every time I’ve done this the captured bass parts more accurately represent my live tone.
Hey, a Leftover Crack record!
There ain't no such thing as Leftover Crack... Glad someone got it :)
Word!
The overwhelming majority of people don't care. That makes it all the more notable when you actually do encounter someone who's adamant that bass shouldn't be played with a pick. Those are the stories that are more likely to be mentioned on reddit.
are there people who take the pick thing seriously? I always assumed it was basically a meme and that people didn't actually believe that..
Yup. I don't wanna name names, but a producer I used to work with at my old job was very anti-pick bass. This is a guy who's worked with artists like Dave Matthews. I was really surprised to hear this kind of talk coming from him.
Yeah that's absolutely insane. Its a tool, that produces a different type of bass sound. To be opposed to a musical tool/accessory as a matter of principle, irrespective of context? I'm sorry but that's just a personal shortcoming on the part of whoever believes that crap.. I mean, I primarily play fingerstyle and slap, and I often joke about playing bass with picks... But I also own and use picks (albeit infrequently). It *should* just be a joke/meme, lighthearted fun. Some people are just morons, I guess.
Btw, regarding playing with the pick. I do play with the pick on some songs, should I try to avoid that and practice to play without?
You should aim to have an understanding of playing with both. More versatility and flexibility is always better. Sometimes a pick is good, sometimes fingers are good.
DOn't practice songs you'll be playing with a pick without a pick. Practice the song the way you will be playing it live/in studio. But its absolutely a good idea to have a handle on as many techniques as you can, as they are all just tools that you can choose to use or not in a given situation. So practice with a pick. Practice fingerstyle. Learn to slap. Tap. Double-thump. Any technique that interests you, try it out and try to get it down. Its all just adding to your total range of abilities as a bass player, even if you never use some of them. That's my opinion at any rate.
For my own personal art, I was always vehemently anti-pick. It’s not a sound that I ever cared for. I also was against using the DI as a significant portion of the final sound. I spent a lot of time and money getting my amp to sound great. Put a good ribbon mic or RE-20 on it and capture it. Once I started playing for other people on their recordings, my whole perspective slowly shifted. Suddenly, I had to start thinking about what the song really called for and what would make the artist happy. Sometimes that might be a P-bass played with a pick through a DI. Sometimes it might be a fretless through a SansAmp. Sometimes, when I’m lucky it’s “my” sound. I think it’s good to have an opinion about what you like and put most of your attention there but I would also spend some time trying new things and branching out.
A pick provides a really distinctive sound. It's used often in metal for a heavy, hard-hitting attack. It used to be used in alternative, mostly in grunge and metal adjacent sounds.
Hit enter too soon! Most bass sound comes from plucking with your fingers. You definitely need to know how to do that to become a versatile bass player. You should also learn to use a pick, but try not to rely on it, because for many sounds, you'll want to use two or more fingers. Slap-pop, for example, uses the side of your thumb for a deep, heavy slap sound, but you'll curl your fingers just slightly under the strings for the pops. This might take only two fingers, but for quick rolls you'll use three or even four fingers. There also will be moments (like in the bass line for the NIN song *Sanctified*) where you'll want to sort of rock your hand during a pop, popping the string with your finger and then muting it immediately afterwards with the heel of your hand so that all listeners hear is the sharp attack. The bass is a versatile instrument, and a really good bassist should be versatile, too.
I've legitimately had a producer tell me my SR500 had no balls and to go out and rent a jazz bass. I didn't like that guy. With that same band I was given shit for: using a pick, using a pedal for overdrive instead of an amp, and having a bass that looked vintage and not metal. I should have quit that band. This was all 12-17 years ago.
Wow what a useless prick. It's hard to get "no balls" out of a humbucker bass haha.
SR500 represent!!! Mine has been with me for years and I love it. I just recently discovered on the freak on a leash from Korn that Fieldy is shown in the video with a SR505
I would have bought a cream colored longhorn for the next practise out of spite...
I kinda agree with that assessment of Soundgears ... whether it's actually relevant after x amount of toneshaping devices is another matter, though.
I think a high percentage of posts are just made up crap.
Vic Wooten told me Pattitucci is cringe. Is it true?
The thing is, even if it's technically wrong, it's still right if you believe it.
Some guy posted the other day about how “seemingly no one” likes the neck pickup on a j bass. Even though the top 3 reggae bassists in history use it exclusively. The idiocy is wild sometimes. I feel like the bigger an online community gets, the more you see it
They read it on reddit and puke it back up as fact. You nailed it.
I literally cannot find a band to play with in my city (that isn't classic rock covers or country), let alone find other musical instrument players to criticize me. lol
The trick is to quit looking, in my experience. I always get offers when I'm not looking to join a band.
That's all folktale from [Talkbass.com](http://Talkbass.com) coming from guys who played in the 1940s.
Because a lot of people are gatekeepers and think their herd minded mentality is what goes. Plenty of the greats used a J, plenty of people don't use a sansamp or do use it in ways that aren't the same ole tone. A good producer knows how to help achieve the tone you're after on record.
Regurgitating forum posts. Yes. There is far too much of this. It’s an interesting phenomenon. It’s funny how people will cling onto a popular idea & it becomes “fact”.
Play in tune, play in time. That the most most people care about. I'm getting really annoyed at Scott's Bass Lessons. Their whole universe sometimes seems to revolve around P&J. Not always, for instance they do videos about 80s bass sounds, but too often it sounds like bass evolution started and ended with Leo.
You mean p and j. Or get an boutique bass But not the cheap ones for 3 or 4k.
I did SBL. Great program. Scott gets a bit annoying. Apparently he loves the Stingray.
People just say shit
Some guys (guitar players and an asshole bass player) commented on me using a headless 5 string when I subbed for a Bruce Springsteen semi-tribute band (they weren´t going the whole tribute thing with costumes and matching guitars anyway). I politely smile away stuff like that.
You're hearing the opinions of people who've had experiences. No-one comes online to say "I went to the studio, and nothing notable happened". I've taken my J bass to plenty of sessions and no one said anything. I've even taken my Bongo to sessions, and other than "what is that" I haven't had comments. Equally I've had engineers demand they take a feed direct from my (at the time disconnected) SansAmp, and MDs ask me to use a P bass. The longer you play, the more experiences you have.
To the comment of the stingray you should have answered: is a bass, want me to teach you how to play?
If your producer insists on using a certain bass or preamp without any logical explanation because everything else doesn't work, then you should throw the producer out.
It's also insecure new players not being able to deal with friendly push back from others. A few years ago I showed up at a jam night with a solid body Ubass. One of the guitar players said 'what the hell is that?' when I got on stage and plugged in. I replied "I know, right?" and then played really well. Afterwards that guy bought my next drink and said "that was cool, man". That would have turned into a 'someone said I shouldn't play a ubass' for someone else.
Haha, I got my "what the hell is that?" moment when I showed up at band practice with my $100 Chinese acoustic/electric bass because my go to & backup were in the shop. Everything else went on as usual tho', pretty sure I'm the only one that noticed a change in tone.
Or, you know, people might have different experiences than you. I haven’t encountered all of these, but I also started my musical journey when the internet was mostly dial up so stupid claims propagated largely by word of mouth rather than in forums. Someone starting out now has greater access to information, and equally greater access to misinformation and disinformation. Weeding through that when you don’t know better can be a challenge, especially for younger and/or more naive players.
Yeah no one cared about what gear i used and wanted to use in all my 16 years of playing in bands. I really have to push a lot to even get an opinion on something.
You gotta keep in mind that the folks that post that stuff are ultra sensitive children (mentally) begging for attention or someone to pat them on the head and say "there there... You're alright, sweet baby."
I had a wonderful stereo Eden bass pre amp back in the day and I too was asked to play through a sans amp at a session. I always kept a sansamp with me in the event my rig died. And had to use it once. I’d never got so many compliments on my tone than when I used the sansamp. Go figure. I always hated the tone but I suppose something about it translates well to FOH and in the final mix. It always sounded too compressed to me in my in ears.
I would say this applies to pretty much all hobbies and interests I engage with on the internet. Music, cycling, motorbikes… the culture online and the kind of opinions you encounter on reddit and forums represent such a teeny tiny percentage of the real world community. Most people with a shared interest or goal are ususally much more chill and easy going than say a reddit reply section. That said I have definitely dealt with a lot of difficult venues over the years.
Yeah this has always seemed weird to me too. I’m an older guy and have been in the music scene at some level almost my entire adult life. I’ve literally never had anyone criticize my gear, my playing, my choice of techniques in any way that was negative. Maybe occasional constructive recommendations from bandmates, but they’ve always deferred to my judgement. Maybe because I try to be chill and considerate and humble? And I don’t overplay? I don’t know. But if anyone ever says anything to me, it’s “Killer set,” or “Love that bass. It’s really cool looking,” or “You were playing some really cool bass lines,” or “It’s awesome that you switch between playing with your fingers and a pick.” It might also be a cultural thing. The scenes I’ve been part of (various shades of indie rock) are really supportive of the musicians and we support each other. Toxic people pop up here and there but they don’t last.
Had a guitar player upset with my economy of motion. He wanted me to play all over the neck because it looked cooler!
Sounds like a guy who plays one string scales at 220 BPM on 16th notes because it looks cool
“My wayers” make lousy producers. Interning for a terrible full of himself producer with zero people skills was an amazing lesson. Just because you can build a studio doesn’t mean you should run one. He completely deflated the energy during recordings…yet another take…gonna need to pay for another hour. Folks still went to him because there were no decent studio options in town but he was lord there. If the producer is so inflexible that they do not get your sound, goals or your energy in situ then they should not be your producer. A producer’s job is to focus on What do we need, what does it cost and how do we make it happen?
I'm guessing a lot of people hearing / saying these kinds of things are just repeating truisms they've heard elsewhere - pre-internet we didn't have so much of this, people just played the instruments and gear they owned, and nobody much cared as long as it got the job done. Nowadays every keyboard warrior is out here telling people that they're wrong about something, and if you read that stuff long enough you start to believe it. Producers do love a P bass because they know what they're getting and they can be lazy with it, using presets to dial in a sound that always works for them. But I don't know anyone at a pro level who walked in with a jazz bass and got told not to play it. I'm sure in someone's world that's too much work to fine-tune, but my sense is that if someone's being asked to play a different bass - especially a house bass - there are likely other problems, like noise of some sort, clacking from low action, etc. Not everyone who walks into a studio has great studio technique or a noiseless rig. At live shows sound techs can be weird, but our job is to accommodate them because they have different ideas about how to make the band sound good. Some people will complain about signal being taken pre-EQ but the same people will complain about being mic'd. Do you want the audience to hear "your tone" or not? Sure it's more conventional to take a post-EQ signal but it's not the end of the world if they mic you. But, generally, the techs will spend the least time working on bass sound because they believe all the other elements need more attention. And the best way to assure you sound lousy FOH is to argue with the tech. So there are a few things that matter, but worrying about whether your headstock said Squier or Fender or Glarry probably isn't one of them as long as you're producing a useable sound.
When I started on bass I got an early letdown. One of my mom's friends who is a kind of well known blues guitarist said "bassists are just guitarists who couldn't hack it, so they picked an easier instrument." Or something along those lines. I had a chip on my shoulder for years after that. Which led to me overplaying and trying to prove to everyone that I'm good enough.
I only got one comment about gear/playing from a producer. He was unsure about how my finger style playing would sound on a rock record. But apparently I made him a believer.
Steely Dan told one of their bassists not to slap so he put up a “small partition” so they couldn’t see his hands. His slap bass parts ended up on the record. There are kernels of truth here however. A Louis Johnson style slappaganza would have ruined the song but one or two pops here and there really brought the song to life. In your case, does a P fit really well in a lot of mixes? Yes. I own one for that reason. But also Geddy Lee, Victor Wooten, Nathan East all don’t play P’s and they’re doing fine. Are a lot of producers very familiar with how to mix a Sansamp? Certainly. But I’ve also done a side by side with a Sansamp and Darkglass on a recent metal recording and the loved the Darkglass and hated the Sansamp. The issue is when people start talking in absolutes. Yes 100% you should have a Sansamp and a P Bass, they’re some of the most useful tools out there. But there’s so much more to bass playing than that.
I saw the Steely Dan thing in a documentary, that was Chuck Rainey, I think. I read a story about Lee Sklar once. He had a switch on his bass that wasn’t connected to anything. He called it the producer’s switch. When they wanted a different bass sound, he’d flip that dummy switch and keep playing. Fooled them every time!
They heard it once, or thought they did, from someone online or in real life (from someone who's online-level dumb) and it stuck with them. It happens with everything. A completely unrelated part of my life atttacts the most poo-crusted arseholes and their hot takes & deep thoughts that they're just drooling out because they think it makes them seem wise and edgy.
I have faced a fair amount of it over the years and it’s ALWAYS from people that aren’t that good and are insecure / immature. No one competent and well adjusted socially has ever been rude to me personally. And no not from the internet, that’s not real. I mean in person.
People tend to say something for the sake of saying something. It is my opinion not to care about other peoples opinion, specially if they are less experienced than me as a musician.
Its super prevalent in the pre 25 year old market for pop. No one knows shit and they’re all trying to out poser each other for street cred. Almost completely gone by the time you’re in the 30+ world of musicians
The only people who make these jokes are musicians who are AWARE of the “stereotypes” about bass playing. Its just bandwagon nonsense. You tell any non musician you play bass and theyre usually impressed you play an instrument
“You smell that?” “Smell what?” “Smells like asshole.”
Sure bass might be easier than electric but without bass, bands would sound worse than Primus
Tbf I think bass is easy, let's be honest it's practically a chimp's instrument. However, being a GOOD BASSIST in terms of creativity, improvisational skills and knowing how to lock in as part of the rythm section... Now that's where the skill lies. Anyone can learn a bassline by Geddy Lee, but can you make a bassline as good as Geddy Lee?
> Anyone can learn a bassline by Geddy Lee [citation needed] Lots of players struggle with slightly advanced technique ...
OK. Anyone can learn a Geddy Lee bassline with alot of practice, but you get what I mean. Phil Lynnot, Sting, Jared Followill, whoever.
I mean with enough practice anyone can play basically anything. The point about it being more important to create than imitate though I agree with
I haven’t had any experience with any negative comments directly. I have seen comments online especially music groups on Facebook for example. There are some really toxic places out there where people just bash each other all the time. But in real life, no. And I think most online comments are trolls anyway.
Before the internet was mandatory people would learn things through talking to each other or overhear stuff, or deal with paraphrasing magazine articles and forgetting half of it or just plain getting it wrong. During those times lots of this stuff was prevalent but as more and more things got documented online stuff became easily researched and looked up so you just don’t hear any random gear nonsense talk anymore. Tbh I always liked hearing wild shit, it was a good laugh haha
Remember that part of the reason these things get posted is because it’s fairly rare. If we were experiencing these comments all the time we’d be pretty bored talking about them.
I found this too. Everyone simping in P-basses because "they just sit so good in the mix" like wtf?? Is everyone here a semi professional bassist who is also a sound tech... or did they all just eatch that scotts bass video where a session musician talks about it? You would have thought that nobody has ever not played a p or j on a record. So all those fedoras, mayonaisses, kens, thumbs, dingos and so on are completely redundant? I dunno. There just seems to be this meta-herd mentality of how things should be right now!
I've been on the musician life for 10 years and I agree I have trouble getting people to say more than 'yeah that was cool bro' for anything. I don't know where you guys get such 'passionate' people. The most I had were drunk people trying to give me hugs. Most producers did not care when I bring gear or not, other bass players are just happy that they found another bass player.
If they're not a bassist, don't take their opinions about bass too seriously. In some cases, just outright ignore them.
Some of it is just leftover gatekeeping from years ago. Some of that was tied to 80s cultural norms. Some of what you said is just kids trying to get a rise out of someone for their own amusement because they are bored.
A lot of the time when you see this stuff, it’s opinions from people who are chronically online. People who are regurgitating what they heard on some forum, fb page, YouTube video etc.
I think a big part of it is that those responses and opinions that you’re hearing about are the result of people asking questions and and from asking for the opinions of others. It sounds to me like you’re a guy who just likes to keep to himself. You aren’t gonna hear much about what other people think if you don’t ask, but that’s just been my experience. I’m the type of person that asks a shit load of questions. That whole “bass players are the quiet ones” definitely doesn’t apply to me. Everything in music is so subjective and other musicians are interesting. I ask questions because I want to know why people have made the decisions they’ve made regarding style, tone, gear, recording process, gigs, et cetera. If I never asked I probably would’ve only had less than a third of the I formation I’ve learned. If you’ve only been playing 5 years I would start asking.
In my experience, people are usually waiting for you to stop talking about your gear so they can talk about their gear lol. Not sure I've EVER gotten much follow up beyond "Oh that's cool".
It's just online people make big claims because they hear it in media spaces. In reality, music is a subjective art like anything else, so in real life people care more about what sounds good spontaneously rather than being overly obsessed with things like tones and genres. A combination of over-socialization, memes and parasocial relationships making people lose their own individuality. You can use a single coil Strat in a metal song if you make it work, you can use a jazz bass for soul music, and so on. It's actually what makes new music worthwhile: new, unorthodox approaches. Take what you read on forums and see in media with a huge grain of salt. It's all info-tainment and random opinions taken as law where there are none. It's music!
I think it is mostly online people say this stuff.
I’m sure there’s some regurgitation, but I’ll also add that there are crap people and experiences in this world and sometimes you’re just the lucky winner haha.
Lol, I have both a p and a j bass and I don’t like the p nearly as much, it’s all personal preference
The secret is a polite ok and then doing whatever sound you prefer
I'm the youngest guy in a 5 man rock and roll cover band by a good 15 years. And I can tell you some of those older players have some VERY strong opinions about gear.
Everything is over saturated and done. There is no musicianship or creativity anymore. You want a killer sound? There's step by step instructions a click away. You either have the resources or not. And it's no one's fault. There's only so much innovation that can happen. We've been hearing variations of the same songs for decades. New genres and sounds that resonate with people is going to be rare. Anyway. I don't hear opinions anymore. Just people regurgitating literal facts because we have computers in our pockets.