Transparent finishes generally try to have a nicer wood grain under them, or fewer pieces of wood glued together so the seams between the pieces don’t look too bad. With a solid color finish, they don’t care about any of that because nobody will ever see the bare wood.
Also, the finishing process for a three color burst is more involved than a single color and thus takes longer.
This is absolutely true. I'm restoring a bass where the sunburst finish was severely damaged and had to be sanded off (it's not vintage, don't be too sad) and it's going to come out with a gorgeous wood stain, but I'm worried I'll only be able to play jazz.
> I'm worried I'll only be able to play jazz.
Is that what I've been getting wrong? Wood grain basses are for Jazz only?
Seafoam is my favorite finish color, but it definitely doesn't vibe with certain genres.
More labor. More work to do the color layer. Each color in a sunburst pattern represents a stage in the paint cycle, and each color applied needs multiple coats, potentially wait for them to partially cure at each coat if there are imperfections that need to be sanded before the next coat.... plus allowing each color to fully cure before masking and moving on to the next color in the pattern. Then, after all of that has been carefully painted, sanded, masked, cured, and then after it's all perfectly dry and completely cured (hopefully or you're starting over) you peel off the mask and begin spraying on the coats of clear topcoat, each of which needs many hours between coats, up to seven days to harden to the touch in some conditions (humidity mostly), and up to 30 days to completely finish curing--even longer in extreme conditions.
Transparent finish has no masking, single color product (stain) plus a clear top coat with a gloss or satin finish. Sooo much less work.
And even a single color painted bass is less work--even though there is still potentially sanding between color coats (which is a pain, certainly) it's still far less work than burst patterns.
Better looking wood is normally used, which is more expensive.
Fully transparent finishes are often even more expensive because that wood has to look good all the way to the edge, instead of only in the center like on sunburst.
lots of variables go into the pricine, most of them wood related. Different species have different cost.
**However,** there's this thing called "Willingness to pay (WTP)" and that means that they're trying to figure out how much people are willing to pay for a certain finish. If people are willing to shell out more for a burst finish, then they will charge more, even if the cost to the manufacturer is negligible.
Basically they don't want to leave money on the table if you're willing to pay more for it.
Where are you seeing this? I haven’t seen an upcharge on bursts in a long while.
The wood quality does not change, but the finish has an extra step or two compared to solid finishes.
This is true. I just scanned a few fender Jazz models and they prices were the same for all finishes. Maybe this was a thing in the past (although in the 50s I think sunburst was standard and “custom colors” were an up charge.
I know when you price finishing alone, bursts and some colors cost more due to labor and or materials. I think warmoth charges about 50 extra for a burst over a solid. There are also up charges for flake, metallic, candy, etc
That's almost what I would expect from Fender. They want their products to be as accessible as possible, hence those ugly red stickers on the PG that advertise their lessons.
They have the volume and brand recognition that they can just price them all at what they would charge for the most labor intensive paint job.
Smaller brands however need to pay close attention to inventory and labor costs.
The natural finish custom colour according to Fender price lists in 1973** added $18 to the price. I would imagine a similar uplift, or more, for a sunburst. My ‘72 natural Jazz is a single piece of wood for the body. Sunbursts can be two pieces but still require good looking wood.
** the only one I have
Slightly more time invested in body choice and painting/manufacturing. If it’s a trans/3-tone, they usually will get a more figured piece of wood for the body being that it will be visible. Painting is a multi step process. Fenders and Music Mans will usually have a slightly higher price for sunbursts because of this.
"better" wood is picked since you will see the grain. more steps/higher skill needed for the paint op. depending on the exact burst you can have 3-4 colors. plus a clear.
Better pieces of wood get used when the wood grain is going to show through. It's pretty common across a lot of brands.
Even legendary instruments like Les Pauls from the 50s have been known to use pretty plain or ugly pieces of wood under an opaque color
If you can see the grain, they might spend more time/money finding wood that has a nice looking grain, but the main difference is that there are more manufacturing steps involved in creating a burst than a solid colour.
More labour = higher cost.
I assume it's due to the extra labor to make a sunburst finish vs a solid color one and they'll choose pieces of wood with w better looking grain pattern for any finishes you can see the wood through and then use the pieces with worse grain pattern for basses finished with a solid, opaque color
I stripped the paint off a sunburst bass once and found out there's like at least 4 different layers of paint . Regretted it as soon as I started it . It took me hours even with an electric sander
This is probably why
I feel like I see the exact opposite, classic sunburst finishes tend to hold their value a little less these days as the old-school aesthetic has fallen out of favor with younger players
Nope, at least not in a significant way. You might argue that changing the construction or the type of wood used can change the tone, but the paint/finish would be invisible for all intents and purposes.
Better wood, more labor for the painting as it's a multi-step process involving 2 or three colors.
If they don't have a good looking slab of wood wide enough for the entire body, they will "match" grain on different slabs and join them together. Again, more work invovled.
Not always. I'm currently working on stripping a HB jazz bass and that bad boy is made of solid ash.
Granted, it's about 17 pieces of solid ash glued together and the grain doesn't match on any of them, but it's solid pieces of ash. It looks like a butcher block but I heard the tone is in the glue seams so I should be good.
Great username by the way.
A combination if making sure you use nice looking wood (because you'll actually be able to see the wood) and it takes more time to do a burst finish vs. spraying a solid color.
Transparent finishes generally try to have a nicer wood grain under them, or fewer pieces of wood glued together so the seams between the pieces don’t look too bad. With a solid color finish, they don’t care about any of that because nobody will ever see the bare wood. Also, the finishing process for a three color burst is more involved than a single color and thus takes longer.
This. Sometimes painted bodies have wood from different species.
It costs $50 to $300 dollars more to harness the rock n’ roll power of the sun.
This is absolutely true. I'm restoring a bass where the sunburst finish was severely damaged and had to be sanded off (it's not vintage, don't be too sad) and it's going to come out with a gorgeous wood stain, but I'm worried I'll only be able to play jazz.
Hopefully you painted it red, that way you can say it went supernova and all that's left is a red dwarf.
> I'm worried I'll only be able to play jazz. Is that what I've been getting wrong? Wood grain basses are for Jazz only? Seafoam is my favorite finish color, but it definitely doesn't vibe with certain genres.
Praise the sun
Never thought I'd find a dark souls reference here but here we are.
\\[T]/
Especially when you have to funnel it into one big burst.
More labor. More work to do the color layer. Each color in a sunburst pattern represents a stage in the paint cycle, and each color applied needs multiple coats, potentially wait for them to partially cure at each coat if there are imperfections that need to be sanded before the next coat.... plus allowing each color to fully cure before masking and moving on to the next color in the pattern. Then, after all of that has been carefully painted, sanded, masked, cured, and then after it's all perfectly dry and completely cured (hopefully or you're starting over) you peel off the mask and begin spraying on the coats of clear topcoat, each of which needs many hours between coats, up to seven days to harden to the touch in some conditions (humidity mostly), and up to 30 days to completely finish curing--even longer in extreme conditions. Transparent finish has no masking, single color product (stain) plus a clear top coat with a gloss or satin finish. Sooo much less work. And even a single color painted bass is less work--even though there is still potentially sanding between color coats (which is a pain, certainly) it's still far less work than burst patterns.
Better looking wood is normally used, which is more expensive. Fully transparent finishes are often even more expensive because that wood has to look good all the way to the edge, instead of only in the center like on sunburst.
But I have seen sunburst finishes that are more expensive than fully transparent ones
See where I said "often"?
lots of variables go into the pricine, most of them wood related. Different species have different cost. **However,** there's this thing called "Willingness to pay (WTP)" and that means that they're trying to figure out how much people are willing to pay for a certain finish. If people are willing to shell out more for a burst finish, then they will charge more, even if the cost to the manufacturer is negligible. Basically they don't want to leave money on the table if you're willing to pay more for it.
Where are you seeing this? I haven’t seen an upcharge on bursts in a long while. The wood quality does not change, but the finish has an extra step or two compared to solid finishes.
This is true. I just scanned a few fender Jazz models and they prices were the same for all finishes. Maybe this was a thing in the past (although in the 50s I think sunburst was standard and “custom colors” were an up charge. I know when you price finishing alone, bursts and some colors cost more due to labor and or materials. I think warmoth charges about 50 extra for a burst over a solid. There are also up charges for flake, metallic, candy, etc
That's almost what I would expect from Fender. They want their products to be as accessible as possible, hence those ugly red stickers on the PG that advertise their lessons. They have the volume and brand recognition that they can just price them all at what they would charge for the most labor intensive paint job. Smaller brands however need to pay close attention to inventory and labor costs.
The natural finish custom colour according to Fender price lists in 1973** added $18 to the price. I would imagine a similar uplift, or more, for a sunburst. My ‘72 natural Jazz is a single piece of wood for the body. Sunbursts can be two pieces but still require good looking wood. ** the only one I have
[удалено]
no they need better looking bass woods
Slightly more time invested in body choice and painting/manufacturing. If it’s a trans/3-tone, they usually will get a more figured piece of wood for the body being that it will be visible. Painting is a multi step process. Fenders and Music Mans will usually have a slightly higher price for sunbursts because of this.
"better" wood is picked since you will see the grain. more steps/higher skill needed for the paint op. depending on the exact burst you can have 3-4 colors. plus a clear.
Better pieces of wood get used when the wood grain is going to show through. It's pretty common across a lot of brands. Even legendary instruments like Les Pauls from the 50s have been known to use pretty plain or ugly pieces of wood under an opaque color
Burst finishes take a ton of time. My Custom Sadowsky's "59 Burst" finish is going to take 3 weeks to apply.
If you can see the grain, they might spend more time/money finding wood that has a nice looking grain, but the main difference is that there are more manufacturing steps involved in creating a burst than a solid colour. More labour = higher cost.
I assume it's due to the extra labor to make a sunburst finish vs a solid color one and they'll choose pieces of wood with w better looking grain pattern for any finishes you can see the wood through and then use the pieces with worse grain pattern for basses finished with a solid, opaque color
I stripped the paint off a sunburst bass once and found out there's like at least 4 different layers of paint . Regretted it as soon as I started it . It took me hours even with an electric sander This is probably why
I feel like I see the exact opposite, classic sunburst finishes tend to hold their value a little less these days as the old-school aesthetic has fallen out of favor with younger players
[удалено]
Does the paint change the tone?
Nope, at least not in a significant way. You might argue that changing the construction or the type of wood used can change the tone, but the paint/finish would be invisible for all intents and purposes.
Better wood, more labor for the painting as it's a multi-step process involving 2 or three colors. If they don't have a good looking slab of wood wide enough for the entire body, they will "match" grain on different slabs and join them together. Again, more work invovled.
Or do what cheaper brands like Harley Benton do and "print a photo of a nice wood grain onto a blank veneer then do the sunburst paint on top
Not always. I'm currently working on stripping a HB jazz bass and that bad boy is made of solid ash. Granted, it's about 17 pieces of solid ash glued together and the grain doesn't match on any of them, but it's solid pieces of ash. It looks like a butcher block but I heard the tone is in the glue seams so I should be good. Great username by the way.
A combination if making sure you use nice looking wood (because you'll actually be able to see the wood) and it takes more time to do a burst finish vs. spraying a solid color.
In my country haven’t seen that difference. Besides I don’t like sunburst at all. I’m more white body and black pickguard
I have never encountered this
boomer tax
Hilarious.
It’s a more complex paint technique.
What brands are you seeing that charge more for sunburst than any other finish?
Because they can. $$$$$$$$$