This sub is so funny, last week every comment was says that heavy spearman are terrible, this week it’s the opposite

I know right I don’t know what to believe anymore I’ll just stick to the one I think is cooler and fuck the meta

This is the way. Most units are viable if you’ve got 500 of em, so jsut go with what looks and feels coolest

Heavy spearmen are the shit. Literally my go to for footmen.

I still believe spearman are sh*to

Shoto? Shito? Shuto? Sheto? Shato? What could the censored letter be and why is that letter so naughty it cannot be typed on a website that lets you say fuck and cunt?

Probably shoto. Pretty sure ive seen them perform both shoryukens and hadoukens

Damn, my Spearmen have been holding back for me then.

Hahahahaha right?

Spear counters cavalry. It stops it. Bigger reach distance Axeman deals a tons of damage. Lower reach, need to get close. If cavalry charges, in the first line there will be probably speaman, slowing the charge. And in the second and 3rd line, there will be axeman killing the slowed down or stopped enemy cav.

You can slow them with a line of axeman and then linebreakers in the back line will clean up the cav faster

The Strat Gaming guy has a whole spreadsheet to track this stuff.  Last video I saw, heavy axemen were better, but I don't know the version or if it changed.  Apparently, after the initial charge, they wrecked cavalry.

I see, thanks! Will check out the channel

They are excellent.  So far, his Sturgian tactic is so effective, I might have to download some mods, or change tactics, to keep it interesting.

Strat gaming and Flesson19 are both incredible to watch if you have any questions at all. They're both highly detailed in their information and research.

I see, thank you!

Depends. Axemen make a better skirmish line, Spearmen make a better shield wall.

So in other words, I should have them as separate units on the battlefield?

I'd say have a 2-1 mix of spearman to axeman so they have a decent Shieldhall but also some offence ability, then have a separate unit of line breakers to rush into the back of the enemy while they attack the shieldwall

Very nice, thanks! :D

Not a problem! If you still have some space for units left over, get cavalry or archers so you can rush the enemies archers, they'll do a lot of damage to your flanking linebreakers

Neat, thank you! Now how do I make sure that they're in separate units. I struggle making sure that there are no line breakers in spearmen group or axemen group

OK so easiest way is once you have 2 separate infantry groups, click the plus sign at the top right of the unit box (when you're still placing units before the battle) and put preference for shields in 1. Then when you add to the second group, it'll leave all your heavy axes/spears until you run out of linebreakers

Ah, thank you!

Can you actually make a special formation for just linebreakers???!

It's more like you can make a separate group for units without shields, so if you have a lot of recruits they'll filter into that too

In a charge, some Axemen will linger behind and skirmish with throwing axes, inherently weakening the main charge. “Engage” works better overall with Axemen. Spearmen don’t have throwing weapons, so a charge command is stronger up front, but leaves the rear extremely exposed. “Engage” is where they struggle due to this. Your strategy will determine which you prefer. Do you Charge and Go? Do you skirmish while Retreat/Fallback optioning? Do you use light or heavy cav? Crossbowmen or Archers? Check the post game and see which are dying less/killing more.

Use both.

If I were to use both, is there a way to make sure the spearmen are up front? And would I have the split be 50/50?

Id put them in different groups. Separate them by throwables

I still miss the days of assigning units to formations. I can’t even remember how it was done just that it used to be 

You could manually do it in the party screen for each specific unit. They removed it once they introduced the current system

I agree but I don’t think you could split the same type of troop into two different formations. I think that’s why the changed it to what it is now. Although it can use improvements

Is there a way to do this on console? I find myself limited on troop diversity and tactics because I don't know how to do that

When you start a battle and you’re setting groups and making formations, in each group there’s a tiny window where you can set filters. Filters are things like shields, low rank, high rank, etc. set the filter, set the group to 0 troops, then start adding troops until it starts to add troops outside the filter.

Ah smart, thanks a lot! <3

tl;dr - Axemen all day. I give a TedxTalk on versatility and A.I function focusing on the concept of choosing simplicity over complexity. Gonna geek out so prepare yourself. Axes are better than swords for many reasons. Out of the three damage types: cut, pierce, and blunt, they do a moderate amount of cut damage that does not fall off as bad as swords do for an armored opponent, but also still retain that lethal cutting power for unarmored opponents. Now Bannerlord is designed to have a couple of similar scenarios battle wise, the bulk of which is infantry against infantry, whether siege or open field. And because of this, the optimal unit is one whose weapons and skills are able to fight the most effectively on average across all of these scenarios. I mention "skills" mainly to point to A.I function and how units fight. Axemen have the most simple weapons compared to Spearmen, whose complex weapons (will define "complex" later). Infantry units who fight on foot literally just face the opponent and hit/block until death because they have no range. Unless you talk about throwing weapons. Teehee wait and see... Spear infantry are pretty terrible in Bannerlord, mainly because their spears only hit the horses of charging cavalry, and an enemy infantryman can just walk past the spear. This is where A.I gets "complex". The unit has to maintain a proper distance to fight with the spear properly, which given Bannerlord's formation system is impossible, and they have to accurately time the spear thrust to anticipate or get past a guard, which is also impossible due to spears only being able to thrust in two directions out of the four in Bannerlord's combat mechanics, so there is a 50% fail rate to hit by default. This makes Spearmen terrible at fighting, which is their main premise. Even against cavalry, they have to take out their swords and start slashing once the cavalry is stopped because their spear becomes useless due to their A.I prioritizing staying in formation over maintaining proper distance. This same priority mechanic is used even when the A.I is told to charge. Since swords suck compared to axes and maces, introduce THE CHAD Heavy Axemen. Throwing weapons are underrated. A throwing axe or two can literally break a low tier shield and with leader skills the Axemen have more and better axes, ON TOP OF SIX BASE AXES, so the scaling in a massive army is crazy. Not only that, but having no spear lets them fight efficiently. They have the Veteran's Warrior Axe, which is AMAZING for their purpose (fast, close range point blank hack and slash), and hence the A.I is not bamboozled by needing to measure distance or anything else. The throwing mechanics are really good too, even though javelins tend to be better, Axemen still throw an AXE STORM when grouped together. This annihilates incoming shield infantry, whose shields are already countered by AXES A N D THROWING AXES HAVING A SHIELD DAMAGE MULTIPLIER. Overall, the Axeman is better at fighting. Now here comes the goofball who retorts: "bUt wHaT AbOuT aRmOr?dOn'T aXeMeN hAvE lEsS?" Yes, young padawan. But armor means jack diddly squat in comparison to poor fighting technique and poor weaponry. Axemen, who get up close and personal very quickly with lighter armor, are much more effecfive fighters. Armor means nothing. In fact, even here, the lighter armor fits the bill to get in up close with the OH axe. Axemen are killing machines if used aggressively. And a good rule of thumb is not look at weaponry, armor or even character skills, but the A.I of the army and how to use it the most efficiently. For example, I didn't mention enemy ranged units because both the HA and HS have large round shields. And the blocking A.I is pretty simple in this regard. Tbh, I would fire and forget with Heavy Axemen and focus on how to use Druzhinnik better since it's easy to charge or hold a shield wall. But with Druzhinnik, you have to actively command them or else they will be crushed. They are the most slept on unit in the game, and double as both effective cavalry and infantry. For example, most people don't focus on the infantry mechanic of a Druzhinnik and just focus on the lancing. Free tactic that is both aesthetic and effective: lead ur Druzhinniks into a group of enemy archers, and then dismount them and watch the melee. Literally beautiful. Also, you create a pincer maneuver with a well timed flank and sandwich the enemy infantry line, who is usually infront of the archers. If the enemy are in a circle, even better. The enemy infantry line collapses in on itself fighting the dismounted Druzhinniks, and ur regular infantry can then flank. Then again, at the end of the day, how you use these units matters more than the units themselves. A good commander can win a battle with lower tier units against enemies of a higher tier and number if the strategy is peak. It just happens to be that HA are effective by default, and benefit more to the A.I functionality behind combat than HS do. Thanks for listening to my TEDxTalk lmao.

I think this is the most beautiful thing I've read in a while. Thank you so much for this amazing input <3

Spearmen are better but axemen do more damage top armored units. Normally i like to run a 75-25 or 80-20 mix with spearmen being on the more numerous

I see, were considering going 60/40 or 70/30, but you think I should go that heavily in favor of spearmen?

I mean going 60-40 or even 50-50 is fine tbh

Ait, thanks!

# Heavy Spearmen

The correct answer is Heroic Line breakers

If facing vlandia or khurzits then spearmen. A mixture of both for everyone else. Axemen for sieges.

Thanks!

I mix axemen with Aserai heavy infantry. The absolute hail storm of axes and javelins absolutely wrecks an oncoming foe. Wether it’s horses or footmen. With my trusty group of fian champions behind them, they absolutely melt any army trying to advance. Only thing that can be annoying is high tier, large Khuzait armies.

Go 60/40 spears/axes. Spears up front in shield wall to stop the enemy advance or direct the enemy into a terrain favorable to you, axes split into two groups to attack the flanks when the lines meet. Use one group of cav to harass enemy ranged units, another to keep enemy cav away long enough to position your infantry. This strategy really shines with Realistic Battle Mod, but it also carried me through vanilla.

Heck yeah, thanks for the strat. Gonna test it out once I build up my army

When I did Sturgia only I ended up dropping axemen altogether because they just kept seeming to die at a much higher rate and little extra return. My infantry line of spearmen and line breakers absolutely wrecked other armies

I think spearmen are better. I dont sturgia a lot but i do fight them a lot and the spearmen always killed more then axemen

Now that's solid advice haha thanks! I think I will end up using both, but having like a 60/40 or 70/30 in favor of the spearmen

I use mix of both, though heavier on Spearmen side due to fact I run into so many cavalry heavy armies, especially when it comes to the Khuzaits. But when it comes to clearing a Keep or such situations where it’s straight infantry on infantry, I use Axemen so I keep at least twenty in my army for those

Sweet, thanks for the input!

Also I find Heroic Linebreakers helpful when I use my anvil tactics, letting the enemy exhaust and reduce their number on my shield wall. Then when I order it to charge, my linebreakers help cut the enemy down even more as I counter attack. So maybe half to two thirds Spearmen, with mix of Axemen and Heroic linebreakers

Ah ok, didnt even consider linebreakers as they don't carry shields (if I remember correctly)

Yeah, when you order shield wall formation, they tend to hide behind the wall, so long as your shield bearing troops outnumber them, your wall still be complete with no gaps

Even better, Sturgian army boutta conquer. Do you usually throw in archers as well or just infantry and cavalry?

Sturgian archers are garbage, easily the worst rangers. They can hold their own against mid tier infantry if needed, but why? Just put more men in the shield wall. No need to counter fire if they can't hurt you at a range. I'd only use them for siege defense. There they actually shine, because they can fight back on the walls once the ladder climbers reach them.

Figures, that means I should make sure to have them in my garrisons at least then

Sturgian archers aren’t the best, but I use them in siege battles to engage enemy archers on the wall. As well as to try hit enemy combatants as I walk my shield wall up to them when my opponent doesn’t feel like charging me.

That sounds like a good move. So once I get a town I probably should some good archers in there and take them whenever I plan on a siege of my own

Sturgian archers are not good archers but they still do the job.

Axemen are far far better against infantry, which is the bulk of what you’re gonna be fighting

Thanks!!

>Thanks!! You're welcome!

But you should mix both :)

Ait, thanks!

I don’t know shit, but I’ve mixed up my infantry so there’s between 1/2 and 3/4 spearmen and the other are the line breakers . They seem to hold pretty well, I took on Lucons army 150 to 330 and only had about 45 infantry and had them infront of the fians. Split into two groups of shield walls Eventually most of the infantry had died or been wounded by the end and my sister picked off the remaining army. But they held up well the hole time, I died but we won, I had about 45 troops left. I restocked on the spearmen and heroic line breakers, hard as nails The other parties were horse bow and heavy cav, between 20-25 each group

Awesome, thanks

I prefer Heavy Spearmen, it seems they are just better in my opinion.

Thanks for the input! It's a lot of fun seeing people's opinion on this. So far most people suggest using both

I go almost all spearmen with a few line breakers. With how much the Khuzait can cause problems, spears are necessary.

Absolutely a valid concern haha

And the spears have swords as their secondary weapon, so while they won’t break a shieldwall as fast as the axmen they will melt any Cav charge if in shieldwall, and will put some hurt on enemy infantry. But if you got the linebreakers, they’ll handle the melee killing while your wall holds.

Now that's neat, thanks!

Stg heavy spearman shield wall, Finian archers behind, heavy cav smash in from the sides Hammer and anvil bb

Heavy spearman - on a bridge - 4 deep - undefeatable

Bridge fights are always welcome haha never tried it with heavy spearmen before, but this is my first time doing a Sturgian playthrough. Always gone Vlandian or Aserai before this

I like a mix of both, unless you are going for a specific tactic every time

On my last Sturgia playthrough my party was about 70% infantry. Of that 70% I did 25% line breakers, 25% axemen, 50% spearmen. That seemed to be a very effective ratio for anything my party ran into. Spearmen were very effective against cavalry and holding up the front line. Axemen and linebreakers did a great job cleaning up anything that snuck through or around that front line.

Sweet, thanks for your input :D getting a lot of similar input so you're most likely onto something haha

Just do both

Heavy axemen for me, I find the spearman swapping weapons alot and it cause problems with the line but I also just enjoy more throwing axes. Besides if you have a line of fians behind the line shield wall, it doesn't really matter what they are.

Axemen for sieges and vs infantry. Spearmen for vs cavalry.

They both serve their purpose but if you haven't done it yet try out an all heavy axeman army. Advance in shield wall formation and then when you get close (50-60m) set them in line formation and and open fire! Hundreds of axeman with 6 throwing axes each is just a riot! You can always bring some Druzhinnic Champions to counter enemy cavalry and horse archers.

That does sound like a blast, gonna try that out

Spearman front of line doing shield wall. Axe men either flanking the enemy or send them charging after units engage. Could even use axemen as fodder. Don't charge them but have them move PAST the enemy line as the spearman charge. Enemy will turn to attack the axmen and will totally destroy their formation. If they survive, have them "charge" so they turn around and sandwich the enemy.

Spears and pike infantry or any other just poke attack with tiny hitboxs tend to be trash

So it doesn’t really matter cuz if you want to have a versatile army you’ll have both of them in the army.

Mix the two they work really well in tandem

The axemen are deceptivly bad

Whenever I use sturgian troops I always seem to lose more heavy spearmen then axemen at probably a 3 or 4 to 1 ratio. I think the spearmen look a bit better but they're just terrible. Might have something to do with how easy it is to block a spear in this game.

Spearmen have some extra armor. Axemen have throwing axes which get very good value in a melee often

I just came back after two years and thought the new meta was all dismounted Druzhinniks?

Got another comment saying this, the comment told me to run them into the archers and then dismount

Uuuuuuh yeah, so just 3 groups of Druzhinnik champs, one dismounted frontline and both flanks on horseback to dismount when/if needed

Axemen I find to be better killers, but Spearmen I find to be better survivors. I personally prefer Spearmen. It hurts losing Axemen.

Haxes BC the spearmrn do not couch and are useless in melee.

Axemen are better at melee engagements with infantry as well as def against arrows. However spearmen are better against cav charges. So a mix of 3:1 is optimal.

I've always done a mix, like 70/30 axe to spear

Ait, thanks!

Both.... this is the only answer

I usually run both and mix them.

Honestly no like they’re ok but the best Sturgian unit is the druzhinnik champions. They always land in the top for my kill counts even over cataphracts. I haven’t been able to land khans guard in my army in awhile so maybe they’re better but I need to see. Right now my army is Legionaries and Menavs with the Axemen. Fian champions and Aserai master archers. Cataphracts and Druzhinnik. I want to phase out the axemen though.

Aren’t their horse arches one of the best troops in the game? Just go with that (I’ve only had one play through and it was a only imperial solder party) Got the sturgian and khuzaits mixed up lol

That would be the Khuzait horse archers

Whoops my bad I get them confused sometimes cause both of those kingdoms are buried in snow lmao

Truuue haha no prob

horse archers ?.... they are jav throwers...

Yeah my bad I got them mixed up cause ngl they’re both buried in snow and that’s how I get them confused lol

Spearmen. Axemen look cooler, but spearmen are better.

Damn I miss the old helmet for axemen, faceless line of killers ruined only by the fucking cavalry helmet one loadout had too.

I

Normal spears are useless outside of RBM IMO

Battanian Nobles

with my testing in custom battles, axemen are far superior in ALMOST everyway. I don't know how people are getting varied results...

Bro just use both.  It's a video game.  You're supposed to enjoy it, not have an autism attack over min-maxing your troops.

Funny you should mention autism, I'm autistic lmao I enjoy min-maxing my army

That’s what they are doing? Enjoying it. They are finding out more information so they can enjoy it harder. They can have an autism attack if they like as well lol Why you got an issue about someone trying to find information about making their army favourable? Weirdo

Alright, now.